TV/TS/TG All the same??

[womanwithin]

Hi all, Just something that's been buging me these three type's of people seem to be grouped together. I see them as being three diferent type's Am I wrong? I am a cross dressing bi male where do I fit in?

[Mudblood]

It's always been my understanding that, basically, the differences are:

-Transvestites are men that dress like women sometimes.

-Transexuals are men that live as women, and want to be considered as women.

-Transgenders are men who live as women, and have undergone surgery or other treatments to further the change (like breast implants and hormone therapy). Although they can pass for women, they usually keep their male genetals (chicks with dicks).

Does this sound close to anyone else?

[glantern954]

What about women? ;)


It's always been my understanding that, basically, the differences are:

-Transvestites are men that dress like women sometimes.

-Transexuals are men that live as women, and want to be considered as women.

-Transgenders are men who live as women, and have undergone surgery or other treatments to further the change (like breast implants and hormone therapy). Although they can pass for women, they usually keep their male genetals (chicks with dicks).

Does this sound close to anyone else?

[m.in.heels&hose]

transvestites are the same as crossdressers, and trans sexual's are preop (they could have the breats implants, or horomone therapy) and trans gender is when the "final" surgery is complete


thank you for my :2cents: here


hugs & more hugs
m.in.heels&hose :cool:

[ScifiBiJen]

Actually, it's my understanding that TransGENDER is pre-op (or those who don't want to go op but still feel that they are in the wrong body) and TransSEXUAL is post-op, now completely as the opposite ( now correct) gender.

Why? because the term "gender" refers to a mental state and a social condition. "Sexual" refers to the actual body parts.

[arana]

According to About.com

Definition Transvestites: Men who adopt the identity of women through dress and behavior. Transvestic individuals exhibit sexual pleasure from assuming the identity of the opposite sex.

You will often hear a transvestite referred to as a "full time woman" whereas drag queens are usually identified as men who impersonate women only during drag shows.

According to glbtq.com, transvestites are mostly "heterosexual men who fetishize female clothing."

Definition Transexual:
A person who identifies as a member of the opposite sex. Transsexuals usually desire physical alteration of their bodies to bring them closer to the sex in which they identify.

Pre-op transsexuals still have the genetalia of their birth sex, but live life as the opposite sex. Post-op transsexuals have undergone surgery to alter their genitalia.

Definition Transgender:
person is one who dresses as, desires to be, has undergone surgery to become or identifies as a person of the opposite sex. These individuals represent the "T" in GLBTQ and can be drag queens, transvestites or transsexuals.

[Gemini25]

As for the TV it's looks like we all agree that it's a person of one sex dressing as the other.
Now as for the TS and TG..... Acording to my Transgender friends, whom we have had discussions about this.
Transexual is the old term used to describe people who feel they were born in the wrong body.
To where Transgender is the term they use now. Because it's not about the sexual parts they may or may not have, but the gender they are and want to become.
I guess it's the whole Politically Correctness of everything now a days. But that is what they have told me. They preffer to be called Transgender. I have one frind interestingly enough went through the surgery to become a woman, and is now BI..... Very cool I think. :bigrin: :bibounce:

[the sacred night]

According to my Human Sexuality textbook from university, a transvestite is someone who is sexually aroused by wearing the clothing of the opposite sex, so not all people who cross dress are transvestites, but... really I guess whatever word you think is appropriate to describe who you are is the right one.

On a somewhat related note, as to the words beginning with "trans," how do people feel about the word "tranny"? I have heard it used as an insult, and so I figured it was an offensive term, but I have seen it used a couple times on this site in what seemed like a non-offensive way. I know each individual has unique ideas on what words are offensive, but is there a semi-general consensus on the word? I don't want to offend people by inadvertently using it if it's hurtful.

[Driver 8]

Part of the problem is that these words have drifted over time. Here's my take on them.

Transvestite has been used to refer to two different groups of people: those who cross-dress for sexual pleasure, and those who cross-dress as performance (i.e. drag queens.) I've never heard it applied to drag kings, but it doesn't seem like it would be wrong. "CD," for "cross-dresser," seems to be edging out "TV."

Transsexuals are dissatisfied with the gender they were assigned to at birth, and often live as the gender they identify with. Many have hormone treatment or sex-reassignment surgery. However, whether or not someone has surgery isn't the best test for whether they're really TS; in particular, many FTMs are unimpressed with the current state of the art, and may opt out of genital surgery.

(A typical example of the problems with words ... many TS people are uncomfortable with terms like "believe themselves to be female" or "consider themselves male" or other terminology that implies they aren't really female/male. However, it's very hard to find terminology that's perfect. Some people who've had sex-reassignment surgery even reject the term "TS" on the grounds that they're now women or men and don't need another adjective.)

The term "transgender" was coined for a couple of reasons; as mentioned above, the use of the words "gender" and "sex" has shifted in past years. People also wanted an umbrella term that would cover both flavors of TV, TS people, and a lot of folks who don't fit neatly into any of the above categories - like men who consider themselves men but dress part-time publically, without interest in sexual gratification; or people who don't consider themselves male or female; even butch lesbians counted under the old definition. Over time, though, it's become a synonym for TS for many people. Some people have also coined very specific definitions for it ("non-operative TSs" is one I've seen) but they don't seem to be used very widely.

Most people under the TG umbrella are pretty clear-cut - and will be pretty unhappy if you get them confused.

"I'm not just doing this to get off - I really am a woman." (This person is TS)
"I'm a straight man - I'm certainly not a woman. I just dress like one in private." (This person is TV)
"I'm a lesbian woman through and through, but I do a great Elvis impersonation." (This person is a drag king.)

Now let's get even more complicated. Some TS people don't want to be included under TG, for various reasons - they don't feel that they have anything in common with those other people, they feel it erases their particular identity, et cetera.

And some people fall into more than one category. It's not unheard-of for TS women to gravitate towards the drag scene, where they find acceptance; the first MTF woman I ever met was a retired drag performer. It's also not unheard-of for drag performers to change their identification over time, initially identifying as their birth gender, and eventually coming to identify as another. Furthermore, there are some cross-dressing men who go on to seek hormones and surgery - and even a controversy in the TS community as to whether they are "really" transsexual or not. (My personal opinion is that if you're willing to go through years of treatment and surgery, plus all the personal difficulties of transitioning, and you're happy with the results ... how on earth can anyone justify refusing to call you TS? It's more of the silly "I'm the right kind and you're the wrong kind" that divides so many communities.)

My rule is to listen to the terms people use for themselves, and follow their preferences.

[womanwithin]

Just wanted to say thanks to every one who replyed WOW, lots of input I am inlightend! Thank's again

[JrzGuy3]

Looks like I'm a bit late to the party, but seeing no other Transgenders have weighed in, here's how it generally works.

Transgender is an umbrella term that basically catches everything in it; it simply references a person as having some sort of gender identification issue.

Transvestites strictly means those whom dress normative for the opposite gender (crossdressers), however, I feel it's grown to be more than that. Transvestites are people whom psychologically identify as the same gender they represent physically, but take on mannerisms normative for the opposite gender. Dress is most common, but this can extend to gender-normative styles, roles, activities... etc.

Transsexuals are those of us whom psychologically identify as the gender they do not represent, and in a vaccum, would generally wish to change this. Many of the "symptoms" (for lack of a better word) displayed by transvestites will also be displayed by transsexuals.

In practice, this is somewhat different. Transgender seems to be a much more popular word among transsexuals than is "transsexual"; my guess is that it is somewhat more asthetically pleasing and (the reason I use it) it emphasizes an issue that deals more with gender than with sex.

For clarification, I identify as transsexual but often say transgender.

[izzfan]

Yeah, basically there seems to be some sort of subtle difference between 'Transvestites' and 'Crossdressers'... I personally have used both terms to describe myself in the past as they basically mean the same thing. But I think that 'cross dresser' has less sexual connotations than 'Transvestite' ( I recently got a magazine from an adult shop called 'Transvestite Times', I sort of imagined it to be some TV version of the 'gay times' but it was basically a porn mag with lots of pre-op transexuals in it...not that I'm complaining as they were quite good looking). But even so, I mean I used to 'lurk' (eg; be a guest rather thn a member) in a lot of forums before I joined this one and from what I have read, many 'cross dressers' (usually in their 30s - 50s) went through a period in their youth where cross dressing had some sort of sexual element to it -I certainly did.... but when I finally plucked up the courage to go out 'en femme'[...albeit still with my beard lol] this halloween, the sexual aspect soon faded and it just felt like something better/ I mean I felt a lot more feminine and identified with women for once, I tended to hang around with mostly female friendship groups rather than the groups mostly male groups of my friends that I usually hang around with. There are numerous reasons why people are crossdressers/transvestites, some feel that they have a strongly feminine side, others are just men who feel that they look pretty as a woman (this focus on female beauty probably explains why a large number of TV/CD ppl are straight... but some are gay/bi), some people do it for purely sexual reasons and many other explanations/reasons.

As for transexuals, in my opinion when you go for hormones or anything that is not easily reversible then it comes into the category of 'transexual' in my opinion. Not all transexuals go in for SRS (Sexual Reassignment Surgery.... the technical term for a sex change) but many of them take hormones (to deveolp breasts etc...) and adopt a female appearence 24/7 [some CD/TV ppl do this, but most CD/TV ppl tend to only be 'en femme' for shorter periods of time... a few days at most]

And 'Transgender' is a term that covers anything that doesn't fit into the rigid male/female gender system.... be it TV/CD/TS etc...

I've probably got it all wrong but this is my interpretation of the difference between TV/CD/TS/TG

Izzfan

[nnjbicoupleforplay]

You're a crossdresser and still a male but a woman within and you should enjoy being who you are. Go with it and let you be who you are.

nnjbicoupleforplay
:male: :female: :bipride:


Have you hugged your bi-friend today??

[Danielle_T]

Ok, i'll give it a go here simply because i am "one of them".

This journey began for me as a kid and has developed into a life long lifestyle as i try to balance myself, family and work all at the same time sometimes. Because of who i am, my marriage fell apart when i came "out" to my ex-wife who could'nt stand the idea but i figured honesty was the best policy....well i became a "freak" and for my efforts she "outed" me to my family and friends and almost to my workplace. She used it against me in court for our custody battle and her lawyer termed me "Bizarre" in legal paperwork.

Anyway, here goes.....

Firstly, break it down in the Latin "Trans" or "across" or "to cross" and
"Vestite" or more correctly "Vestas" or "to Dress". With this, obviously we get Cross Dresser....same deal right? WRONG!.....lol

Now....in the community it breaks down thusly...

CrossDressers or CD's (and there is no "bible" on this trust me, you'll get arguements) mainly wear certain articles of the opposite sex's clothing and derive a certain fetish or sexual pleasure from the act of doing so. They most often only do this only once in a while graduating to more layers of clothing (undergarments etc.) but rarely do they dress completely or wear make-up.

Transvestites or TV's are more into the femininity aspect and dress more completely, they are happiest when they look in the mirror and see a total woman staring back at them (earrings, makeup etc. etc.) The closer they can come to the perfection of being a real woman (or facsimile therein) the more satisfied they are. They tend to study and idolize women and emulate them carefully. A Transvestite would love to be dressed as a woman and simply "pass" in public and almost NOT be noticed but they can be exhibitionists as well. These people are on the threshold of deciding if they are to remain male, become female through hormone therapy and SRS or sexual reassignment surgery or to stay male and play female from time to time. Being dressed as a female seems to give them a sense of happiness and comfort.

Transgendered denotes a person who has decided that they are not the sex they were born to be and start down the long arduous path of becoming the other sex. This can be very painful (emotionally and physically) and they will usually not be happy until the reassignment surgery is completed (including reconstruction of the penile tissue into an almost fully functional vagina). Once this is complete they feel that they can join the rest of the world as the person they were to be afterall.

Other terms you have heard are She-Male which is a derogatory term coined by the porn industry and Drag-Queen whick is usually a gaff or spoof of women done by gay males for cabaret etc.

It should also be noted that i have seen very few Female to Male Transgendered or even Transvestites out there, i know they exist because i've met some but for women, this is more alien to them than anything. That is, the numbers simply break down to more Genetic men living these lifestyles than genetic Women. Does that make sense????

Please excuse me if my terms here are not completely correct, i am not a Dr. or a PHD but simply one who has lived the lifestyle and run into more than a few arguements about it all. My goal was to enlighten a little and to NOT inflame or hurt anyone.....love you all ....xoxox Dani

P.S. Hope it helps :)

[wanderingrichard]

well put, Danielle.

[codybear3]

well put, Danielle.


Ditto.... :paw: :paw:

[jorek]

In my experience I have found it helpful to think of these terms in simple ways:

A TV is an occaisonal person who does it mostly in private for mostly sexual reasons.

A TG is a part timer who may do it in private or in public for either sexual or personal gender expression.

A TS is a full timer who does it mostly in public and is in the process of changing genders, usually because they feel that they are one sex trapped in the body of another.

jorek

[Star Gazer]

The operation that changes a woman into a man is called

an addadicktome.

[Danielle_T]

I'm Sorry Jorek, but you have it wrong. Not to attack you but there is so very little known about this community and, it seems people don't want to learn.

Think about it....TG or Trans-gendered and TS or Trans-sexual is pretty much the same thing. If a person suffers gender dysphoria, that is, feelings of being trapped in the wrong body, then they go on to a series of consultations with specialized Psychaitrists. After this they may then go on to have what is known as SRS or sexual reassignment surgery where they (through a series of surgical proceedures) eventually become that which they so desire....the opposite sex.

A TV or Transvestite (and i'm sure i explained the difference farther up in this thread) may live as a woman more full time or may choose to live a more closeted life,it really can vary. The main difference is what that particular person is feeling.

And another thing, not all of us dress to get off, that is a huge mis-conception. I, for example simply feel "right" when "en-femme". There is a calming effect on me that i can never explain to a person who has never been effected in this way.Also, consider the fact that i am hugely bi-sexual, and am living with a wonderful woman who knows all about my life (every sordid detail) and accepts me the way i am and, in turn i am MADLY in love with her. (she is on this site as well...wink....wink)

I guess what i am trying to say here and , please, i don't want anyone to take offense, is....please don't try to evaluate this community alone, if you don't know, don't guess.....ASK, read up, educate yourself ! you might be surprised by what you learn.

Thank you all....xo Dani

P.S. oh, and the "addadicktome" line, well that's just pure ignorance and disrespect and does'nt even deserve a reply. Shameful on a site such as this really, joking or not.

[becksbolero]

Lack of knowledge makes humans want to put labels on everything(pop,rock)etc,we're a long way from perfect but it seems alot of us who aren't" socially normal" at least try but having said that i pigeonhole people at times too but i try not to!