Was 9/11 an inside job?

[pole_smoker]

It's 9/11 may all the people who died today in the WTC attacks, and who have died in the wars we're in rest in peace.

On another site I post on in their political/current events forum the question was posed if you believe 9/11 was inside or not? If so why do you believe it was? If no, why do you believe it was not?

[2bi2Bboring]

No! It wasn't!

[pole_smoker]

I voted yes only because the "official report" was dodgy in some ways, and not that I believe "OMGWTF the g0vt and Bush II planned it all and did it!" but because under the Clinton administration the DIA did learn about the plan to hijack planes and the attack plan, and told the information found to the Clinton administration in a report-yet nothing was done.


However I have seen the other side and the argument that drones were used, or planes on auto-pilot with no passengers, and things being hit by missiles make sense as does the controlled demolition theory on building #7 of the WTC.

There is not one shred of evidence that The Pentagon was ever hit by a plane, they have surveillance footage which they released enough to see the explosion, but not enough to see the plane, what is the fucking point in that? They are clearly hiding the fact it was something else besides a plane.


There is not one shred of evidence that The Pentagon was ever hit by a plane, they have surveillance footage which they released enough to see the explosion, but not enough to see the plane, what is the fucking point in that? They are clearly hiding the fact it was something else besides a plane.

The way the report claims that jet fuel melted 3 entire buildings yet the passports of the hijackers were found completely intact and not burnt at all is sketchy too.

Looking at the buildings fall it is pretty much identical to controlled demolition, I don't think the towers would of fell in that fashion if what we are told happened is all that happened. Obviously a couple planes hit those buildings that day, but that is not what brought them down, neither are the fires caused by said planes.

I also find it impossible to believe that, just by chance, NORAD happened to be playing war games that day and could not distinguish the threat. Literally on any other day the planes would of been shot out of the sky but apparently Bin Laden and his Saudi cronies hit the fucking lottery there, that is a hard sell to me.

[havefun529]

Is this where I get my tin foil hat?

[BiBedBud]

Alright, I’ll bite….

The clearest evidence there is *in the open* for anyone to see, can be seen in any photograph of the Pentagon on 9/11.

There is no way a 757 made that damage at the Pentagon, NO WAY that un-credibly small hole was a 757. That’s a fact.

I have also seen photographs taken by firefighters who responded to the Pentagon on that day – among the first guys to show up – and the debris shown in these photos, a small aviation landing-gear wheel, the kind like you’d find on a drone like a ‘Global Hawk’, but certainly nothing as big (x3) as a 757 landing gear.

I’ve seen plenty of photos of the molten steel at the WTC site, as if cut by Thermite, and enough other people have too; not to mention the free-fall speed of collapse, which is otherwise a physical impossibility without explosive charges like they use in controlled demolition. I’m not even going to get into the controversy of ‘Building 7’ which suffered no damage, yet collapsed all the same.

Seriously, go look at pictures of the Pentagon and WTC on that day and afterward, there was just too many of them taken, for anyone to be able to explain everything away.

So………………… If that wasn’t a plane at the Pentagon, yet a plane-load of regular, ordinary travellers were disappeared on that day…………?

Continue to ask questions along these lines, and it becomes CLEAR that the official story is BS – pure bunk – and that there was very definitely US Government involvement in 9/11, not just ‘LIHOP’ (an acronym for ‘Let it Happen on Purpose’, Google it to read more), not just LIHOP but actual participation in some way (like disappearing that plane-full of people who ‘officially’ were crashed into the Pentagon). I don’t think al Qaeda managed that on their own, even if they did probably intend to crash a jet into the Pentagon that day. Whatever happened to that plane is something other than crash into the Pentagon – that much I consider a certainty.

Doubting the truth? Go look at pictures of the Pentagon. Go to Google, click on ‘Images’ and type in ‘Pentagon 9/11’ and just for kicks, throw in ‘757’.

As for the reasons/ motivations, a lot has been written about that elsewhere, and I won’t rehash, except to say that a number of motives came together that day; whether explicitly or tacitly, we’ll never know.


One thing that hasn’t been talked about very much anywhere, is the motive that resided within NYC Real Estate interests (interwoven with mainstream media interests); who had an intractable problem: A glut of NYC office space, with far too much of it on the ‘lower end’, embodied most of all by the WTC ‘Twin Towers’. That was an enormous amount of space, but it could not be rented/leased out for top dollar, as these buildings were too old (and had high vacancy). However, the Twin Towers were too big to demolish economically the normal way (which would have cost billions, just to tear them down properly to redevelop the site, in a prime location). As such, for top-end New York City Real Estate interests, the WTC was a serious thorn in the side. Of course, that property could be entirely re-developed on-the-cheap with USG-backed financing and insurance payouts to boot, quite profitably indeed – especially if OSHA and EPA were not factors in (an unsafe) demolition. All that was needed was 9/11.

Consider also: The hundreds of billions spent on weapons and warfare thereafter. This was also a motivating factor for the plot, plus the easily available excuse to invade Iraq (ostensibly to gain control over oil, although that didn’t work-out so well). Now, only recently coming to light, is ‘the other shoe silently dropping’; the shredding of the US Constitution and the virtual imposition of high-order ‘thought police’ and if you’re coloured, even martial law a la Ferguson, Missouri.

Looking at the petro-implications alone, the case is pretty open and shut for any keen observer of international affairs – oil interests were also majorly involved. (I can already hear some of you scoffing all the way across the internet, because the cheap oil never flowed; but you must consider that US oil interests *require* a high price, because that’s the only way their holdings become profitable. If the world was at peace, and oil could move without so much fuss (or upwards price pressure, mostly from US speculators in the futures markets); then it wouldn’t be profitable to drill in Texas, the Gulf of Mexico, or Alaska; besides the blocks of licensed lots around the world held by the likes of EXXON, TEXACO, CHEVRON and the other oil majors.

High oil prices make more money for oil companies – it was never about bringing cheap gas to the pumps.

And now, America isn’t what it once was. Americans aren’t a free people any more. They live under a two-party oligarchy that presides over a (thinly veiled police-state), plutonomy – a far cry from a true democracy (which they arguably haven’t had since JFK). Worse yet, Americans aren’t as brave as they once were; in fact they cower so much in fear of terrorism (and in fear of Latinos and Blacks, etc.), that they’ve let their Government get away with all manner of things that would have been considered high treason back in the year 2000. For examples illustrating this point, please refer to Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning and Valerie Plame and her husband, among the other true patriots who have been persecuted by their own Government, while fearful stooges denounce them for ‘siding with the enemy’. (Same bunch of useful idiots who dismiss plain truth as crazy conspiracy theory; see ‘havefun529’ above.

So, to be precise, given the evidence and my own logical apprehension of the actual events and verifiable truths: 9/11 was partially an inside job, with significant ‘outsourcing’ to UBL and AQ. Also backing UBL and AQ, though from the other side of the conspiracy, were elements of the Pakistani military establishment, and their attendant terror apparatus who were important backers, facilitators and tacticians for the 9/11 attacks. There is also much clear evidence that elements of the Israeli government at least knew it was coming, precisely when and where – going so far as to set-up cameras on NYC rooftops so they could film the event. Reportedly, several Israelis were arrested after shocked New Yorkers saw them ‘high-fiving’ each other, while filming from rooftops, as the Twin Towers were struck and collapsed. Afterward, the George Bush Whitehouse got involved directly, and the Israelis were released from custody five weeks later, and sent back to Israel.

Just today, I was reading that there is actually an official 28-page report on which governments knew what, when; but which has been suppressed, quite officially. I’ve always suspected that King Abdullah of Jordan knew beforehand and tried to warn anyone he could reach; but to no avail.

The core tactics of the actual attacks, I assess as the product of Pakistani military trainers who did a cold-run (actually, a decidedly ‘wet’ run) with the preceding hijack of Indian Airlines flight 814 (in late 1999). There’s a Wikipedia page on that event which is also good reading.

Go just a little bit deeper into the known truths and verified facts, and you’ll find that after the Indian Airlines flight 814 hijack, India had a ‘Red Corner’ Alert with INTERPOL demanding the immediate arrest of the terrorists released by the hijacking of flight 814. Yet, the UK allowed at least one of them, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, to transit in and out of the UK several times, until he was re-arrested in Pakistan in 2002 for cutting off the head of yet another American journalist, Daniel Pearl (RIP).



PS: Tin hats are stupid, but blissful ignorance is far, far worse.

[pole_smoker]

Alright, I’ll bite….

The clearest evidence there is *in the open* for anyone to see, can be seen in any photograph of the Pentagon on 9/11.

There is no way a 757 made that damage at the Pentagon, NO WAY that un-credibly small hole was a 757. That’s a fact.

I have also seen photographs taken by firefighters who responded to the Pentagon on that day – among the first guys to show up – and the debris shown in these photos, a small aviation landing-gear wheel, the kind like you’d find on a drone like a ‘Global Hawk’, but certainly nothing as big (x3) as a 757 landing gear.

I’ve seen plenty of photos of the molten steel at the WTC site, as if cut by Thermite, and enough other people have too; not to mention the free-fall speed of collapse, which is otherwise a physical impossibility without explosive charges like they use in controlled demolition. I’m not even going to get into the controversy of ‘Building 7’ which suffered no damage, yet collapsed all the same.

Seriously, go look at pictures of the Pentagon and WTC on that day and afterward, there was just too many of them taken, for anyone to be able to explain everything away.

So………………… If that wasn’t a plane at the Pentagon, yet a plane-load of regular, ordinary travellers were disappeared on that day…………?

Continue to ask questions along these lines, and it becomes CLEAR that the official story is BS – pure bunk – and that there was very definitely US Government involvement in 9/11, not just ‘LIHOP’ (an acronym for ‘Let it Happen on Purpose’, Google it to read more), not just LIHOP but actual participation in some way (like disappearing that plane-full of people who ‘officially’ were crashed into the Pentagon). I don’t think al Qaeda managed that on their own, even if they did probably intend to crash a jet into the Pentagon that day. Whatever happened to that plane is something other than crash into the Pentagon – that much I consider a certainty.

Doubting the truth? Go look at pictures of the Pentagon. Go to Google, click on ‘Images’ and type in ‘Pentagon 9/11’ and just for kicks, throw in ‘757’.

As for the reasons/ motivations, a lot has been written about that elsewhere, and I won’t rehash, except to say that a number of motives came together that day; whether explicitly or tacitly, we’ll never know.


One thing that hasn’t been talked about very much anywhere, is the motive that resided within NYC Real Estate interests (interwoven with mainstream media interests); who had an intractable problem: A glut of NYC office space, with far too much of it on the ‘lower end’, embodied most of all by the WTC ‘Twin Towers’. That was an enormous amount of space, but it could not be rented/leased out for top dollar, as these buildings were too old (and had high vacancy). However, the Twin Towers were too big to demolish economically the normal way (which would have cost billions, just to tear them down properly to redevelop the site, in a prime location). As such, for top-end New York City Real Estate interests, the WTC was a serious thorn in the side. Of course, that property could be entirely re-developed on-the-cheap with USG-backed financing and insurance payouts to boot, quite profitably indeed – especially if OSHA and EPA were not factors in (an unsafe) demolition. All that was needed was 9/11.

Consider also: The hundreds of billions spent on weapons and warfare thereafter. This was also a motivating factor for the plot, plus the easily available excuse to invade Iraq (ostensibly to gain control over oil, although that didn’t work-out so well). Now, only recently coming to light, is ‘the other shoe silently dropping’; the shredding of the US Constitution and the virtual imposition of high-order ‘thought police’ and if you’re coloured, even martial law a la Ferguson, Missouri.

Looking at the petro-implications alone, the case is pretty open and shut for any keen observer of international affairs – oil interests were also majorly involved. (I can already hear some of you scoffing all the way across the internet, because the cheap oil never flowed; but you must consider that US oil interests *require* a high price, because that’s the only way their holdings become profitable. If the world was at peace, and oil could move without so much fuss (or upwards price pressure, mostly from US speculators in the futures markets); then it wouldn’t be profitable to drill in Texas, the Gulf of Mexico, or Alaska; besides the blocks of licensed lots around the world held by the likes of EXXON, TEXACO, CHEVRON and the other oil majors.

High oil prices make more money for oil companies – it was never about bringing cheap gas to the pumps.

And now, America isn’t what it once was. Americans aren’t a free people any more. They live under a two-party oligarchy that presides over a (thinly veiled police-state), plutonomy – a far cry from a true democracy (which they arguably haven’t had since JFK). Worse yet, Americans aren’t as brave as they once were; in fact they cower so much in fear of terrorism (and in fear of Latinos and Blacks, etc.), that they’ve let their Government get away with all manner of things that would have been considered high treason back in the year 2000. For examples illustrating this point, please refer to Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning and Valerie Plame and her husband, among the other true patriots who have been persecuted by their own Government, while fearful stooges denounce them for ‘siding with the enemy’. (Same bunch of useful idiots who dismiss plain truth as crazy conspiracy theory; see ‘havefun529’ above.

So, to be precise, given the evidence and my own logical apprehension of the actual events and verifiable truths: 9/11 was partially an inside job, with significant ‘outsourcing’ to UBL and AQ. Also backing UBL and AQ, though from the other side of the conspiracy, were elements of the Pakistani military establishment, and their attendant terror apparatus who were important backers, facilitators and tacticians for the 9/11 attacks. There is also much clear evidence that elements of the Israeli government at least knew it was coming, precisely when and where – going so far as to set-up cameras on NYC rooftops so they could film the event. Reportedly, several Israelis were arrested after shocked New Yorkers saw them ‘high-fiving’ each other, while filming from rooftops, as the Twin Towers were struck and collapsed. Afterward, the George Bush Whitehouse got involved directly, and the Israelis were released from custody five weeks later, and sent back to Israel.

Just today, I was reading that there is actually an official 28-page report on which governments knew what, when; but which has been suppressed, quite officially. I’ve always suspected that King Abdullah of Jordan knew beforehand and tried to warn anyone he could reach; but to no avail.

The core tactics of the actual attacks, I assess as the product of Pakistani military trainers who did a cold-run (actually, a decidedly ‘wet’ run) with the preceding hijack of Indian Airlines flight 814 (in late 1999). There’s a Wikipedia page on that event which is also good reading.

Go just a little bit deeper into the known truths and verified facts, and you’ll find that after the Indian Airlines flight 814 hijack, India had a ‘Red Corner’ Alert with INTERPOL demanding the immediate arrest of the terrorists released by the hijacking of flight 814. Yet, the UK allowed at least one of them, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, to transit in and out of the UK several times, until he was re-arrested in Pakistan in 2002 for cutting off the head of yet another American journalist, Daniel Pearl (RIP).



PS: Tin hats are stupid, but blissful ignorance is far, far worse.
Thank you for posting. What are your theories about what happened at the WTC or how building 7 was standing, then was reported on the news to have fallen, and then did fall looking like a controlled demolition?

[Gearbox]

Yes!
There are just too many improbabilities, coincidences and outright manipulations (technical & psychological) involved for it to have been as portrayed.

One thing stood out for me that made me doubt what was 'reported', was on the day of the incident:
A film crew were reporting live footage of the scene and interviewing onlookers with what was left of the towers behind the crowd. One of the crowd introduced himself as an engineering expert. He said that he watched the towers collapse, and that it was impossible for them to collapse in that way IF due to planes striking them.
I've never seen that footage again, yet you'd think it would be used time after time to portray the effects on the onlookers on that day.

Looking into it, it's complete bolox IMO.

[CT66fan]

Pole_Smoker:
No matter what the issue there will always be conspiracy theorists who want to blame it on the government or the powerful.
<br>
However I have seen the other side and the argument that drones were used, or planes on auto-pilot with no passengers, and things being hit by missiles make sense as does the controlled demolition theory on building #7 of the WTC.
You can come up with all of the plausable theories you want, but the video evidence is clear in that the planes DID hit the towers.
<br>
There is not one shred of evidence that The Pentagon was ever hit by a plane, they have surveillance footage which they released enough to see the explosion, but not enough to see the plane, what is the fucking point in that? They are clearly hiding the fact it was something else besides a plane.
I don't buy that for a second. Most survellience recorders capture frames at a rate of 3-5 frames per second (fps) and play back at 120 fps. The plane that hit the Pentagon was a 757-223, 155 feet long, with a cruising speed of 533 mph (or 782 ft per second). Travel at that speed, it would take only 2/10s of a second to travel its length. AT a record rate of 4 fps, that's 0.25 seconds between frames. Check out this link if you want to see how the plane escaped obvious observation on the security camera's clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8
<br>
The way the report claims that jet fuel melted 3 entire buildings yet the passports of the hijackers were found completely intact and not burnt at all is sketchy too.
With explosive, high energy events like this, the strangest things happen. Items you would expect to be totally destroyed are not. What of the findings of pieces of straw penetrating a telepone pole after a tornado? I never heard reports that "3 entire buildings were melted".
<br>
Looking at the buildings fall it is pretty much identical to controlled demolition, I don't think the towers would of fell in that fashion if what we are told happened is all that happened. Obviously a couple planes hit those buildings that day, but that is not what brought them down, neither are the fires caused by said planes.
After impact, and quite some time after the fire, the towers collapsed. The only force acting on the structures was gravity. As any high schooler who passed physics knows, gravity pulls straight down. For those of us familiar with the WTC structural system, this is not at all far-fetched. Go revisit some of the videos - the floors are falling straight down, but the exterior of the buildings fell outward, away from the center.
Many people are gone as a result of this tragedy, so the remote-controlled airplane theories fall short. You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want. Many will criticize "belief" vs "facts", but we all know that facts can sometimes be colored to support a particular belief. From my perspective, I do not expect that we will ever know the whole story. But, given the logistics required to pull this off as the conspiracy theorists suggest, I just don't see our government capable of it without SOMEONE eventually leaking the fact. So far, I haven't heard one come forward.
You all can respond as you see fit. Foul language and insults will not bait me into a debate on this topic. You live with your opinion and I'll be fine with mine.

[kewlguy]

You don't need to be an expert to see the blatant similarities between controlled demolition of any other building vs. the Towers. The planes were flown into the towers on purpose to make it look like an attack. Yes...it was an inside job and the controlled demolition of building 7 is the smoking gun....PERIOD!!!

[2bi2Bboring]

Thanks for bringing this conspiracy theory shit to the one place I was counting on being free from it. The dispensing of tinfoil hats will begin in the line to the left and the Thorazine pills are in the line to the right, please get you tinfoil hat prior to your Thorazine pills. Please hand in all your guns prior to getting in either line. Those believing Sandy Hook was a government conspiracy perpetrated by rogue elements of special forces, take two Thorazine pills and sign up for electroshock treatments in the rear of the room. Thank you and have a nice day:)

[Gearbox]

Omfg 2bi. Have you been brainwashed to click on and post in threads that you have a distinct dislike for?:eek2:
What kind of crazy shit psyscho mind fuckery is going on in Indiana?
Get out of there, put your tin foil hat on.....run bitch...RUN!:rolleyes:

[void()]

Thanks for bringing this conspiracy theory shit to the one place I was counting on being free from it. The dispensing of tinfoil hats will begin in the line to the left and the Thorazine pills are in the line to the right, please get you tinfoil hat prior to your Thorazine pills. Please hand in all your guns prior to getting in either line. Those believing Sandy Hook was a government conspiracy perpetrated by rogue elements of special forces, take two Thorazine pills and sign up for electroshock treatments in the rear of the room. Thank you and have a nice day:)

At present I do not have direct link or citations to it, proof exists though, F.D.R ignored the Japanese emissary prior to WWII. The Japanese sought to gain relief from the oil embargo imposed on them by the U.S., continued embargo meant Japan had no recourse aside from attacking the U.S.. This was set in motion so as to give the U.S. an excuse to enter WWII.

Vietnam was engaged over The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, which was later proven to have been a staged event to grant an excuse to further engage in warfare. And then there is documented proof which Anthony C. Sutton wrote about it. This proof conveys that many various Wall Street interests supplied Communist and Russian backed North Vietnamese with supplies, such as Ford trucks. Atop of this, Vietnam was where our military was put on a leash effectively, ordered to literally not follow an enemy after the enemy crossed whatever arbitrary line it was that week/day/hour. We also used counter-insurgency tactics in Vietnam which came directly from Mao via a French soldier who was hired to teach at American war colleges. Look up Operation Phoenix in regards to Vietnam, there is the anti-insurgency matter.

Also during this time an effort was made to overthrow Castro in Cuba. Look up Operation Northwoods. This is especially interesting because at the time it was suggested planes could be flown via radio control. The technology to do that has only improved.

You can also look up The Project For A New American Century, or PNAC. They openly suggest America needs another Pearl Harbor in order to persuade us to go to war. This was documented a year to the month prior to Sept. 11 2001, in September of 2000.

Sorry, but when there are incontrovertible statements of fact, documented proofs of at least three false flag incidents in our history, it is difficult to not question. You need not be a kook.

[void()]

The lowest temperature at which a plain carbon steel can begin to melt, its solidus, is 1,130 °C (2,070 °F). Steel never turns into a liquid below this temperature. Pure Iron ('Steel' with 0% Carbon) starts to melt at 1,492 °C (2,718 °F), and is completely liquid upon reaching 1,539 °C (2,802 °F). Steel with 2.1% Carbon by weight begins melting at 1,130 °C (2,070 °F), and is completely molten upon reaching 1,315 °C (2,399 °F). 'Steel' with more than 2.1% Carbon is no longer Steel, but is known as Cast iron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_steel


Worked with a fellow once who had for a time worked at an airport with a refill crew. They refilled planes with jet fuel. He stated that jet fuel burns quickly, at around 1,500 F in temperature. He admitted the crew used to "flash fry" hot dogs, squirt a short burst of fuel over an open flame, hold out a hot dog on a wire. He said the fuel burnt off so quick there was really no time for sustainable heat.

I recalled two years of welding in high school, thinking steel melted somewhere around 1,900 F. Looked it up as our instructor often chided us to do. I was not far off the mark with recalling the melting point. And I do recall the heat needs sustained. Plasma cutters can cut steel in quick heating bursts, but they are another horse of color altogether. Paper and office stuff, not likely to reach over 1,700 F, still well under what is required.

Why "melt steel"? Well, obviously steel is shown as melted, or cut through in many of the images shown in MSM. When you have common sense to realize this takes a lot of heat, more than what is cited was available, it too leaves one to wonder.

There are also now over 2,000 or so engineers who do not accept the official version of the narrative, in part due to this concern regarding the steel.

[2bi2Bboring]

Ok, I gotta say this beforehand in the interest of sanity( my own ), let's not let this conversation be one of THOSE conversations that make you shake your head and internally scream. This is a site about being bisexual, I see enough of the real world on my TV at night between 6-7pm. I have to deal with religions that want to subjugate me, politicians who want to enslave me, and nut bag ammo heads who want to make me think I live in fucking Baghdad or Mogadishu and I need their wanna-be Rambo CAR-15 toting paranoid asses to protect me in while I'm buying jeans in the Gap. I wanna come here and get away from the fear and paranoia that infects the rest of the world, dammit! Is it too much to fucking ask?

I have been on the pointy end of the spear of US foreign policy, I spent a long time learning how manipulated the press and the public are, from the inside, you all were on the outside looking in. I'm no Indiana corn-fed rube, I've been in around the world and IN the news, not watching it at home on fucking TV. Is the press manipulated? Is the public manipulated? Yes and yes! Does it make me feel better to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are being manipulated? Fuuuuuuuck no! But the only thing we on the outside can do is live our lives, I don't swallow 99% of it, because I know better than to do it. But does it make me sleep better to not think about it? You're damn well straight,it does! But I don't swallow any of this horseshit either. My head is not in the sand
There's a hundred more relevant, more important things minds like yours could be contemplating to help save the planet or make a better world . Instead, we are all here debating how paranoid we can be, what fucking good is that. You are all intelligent, articulate people, but the truth is we will never know the truth. So we are only left with the circumstances in the wake. Go ahead, don't trust the government, you shouldn't anyway. But whipping yourself up into a froth over whether JFK was assassinated by Fidel Castro, the mob, or LBJ is just mental masturbation. Oswald got fingered for it and that's the way history will record it, the Warren Commission and the House Subcommittee on Assassinations are footnotes to the partyline of history.
Same deal with this hyperbole and verbosity, the truth died a long time ago, long before Sept 11th, 2001. We will truthfully never know the WHO, and WHY, we are only left with WHAT happened and the world it wrought afterward.

The truth is, there are bad people in the world, bad people who mean to do us harm. People who have sworn their very lives to our destruction. Bad rich people and bad poor people, some are politically connected oligarchs who want to see their profits rise and could give a rat's ass if the world burns to the ground to get it. Others, have nothing left to loose, or they have everything to die for because paradise awaits. It's happened all over the world, people lose something precious, a home, a member of their family, maybe their whole family, and they swear on their lives to destroy those who did it. All over the planet people are finding reasons to go to the Middle East and training to raze America to the ground. The U.S. And Britain have been fucking around in Middle East politics since the discovery of oil in the 1920's. In that nearly 100 years we have made a fuck-ton of enemies, because we are manipulating their political environment. Lots of the peasantry in many of our little serfdoms we've created and kept are currently pissed at us for fucking-over their lives, exploiting their resources, taking their land and killing their mothers,wives and children. Before oil was a commodity no one gave a single shit about that area of the world, now we are neck deep in shit over it.
So Gear, why is it so hard to believe Muslim terrorists flew planes into the towers and the Pentagon? The guy currently lopping the heads off journalists left and right on the internet is a British citizen, you don't think there a conspiracy theory too. Or is everything a conspiracy theory?
If is the biggest word in the universe! It's true, manipulating the public perception is the stock and trade of governments. But what good does this knowledge do you? Does it make you happier, or does it make you live in fear and loathing and paranoia?

[Hoosier]

Bi, Like you I came here to be with other Bi folk ,not to dicuss politicts, but if SHtF.......game over...for them :)

[void()]

I have to deal with religions that want to subjugate me, politicians who want to enslave me, and nut bag ammo heads who want to make me think I live in fucking Baghdad or Mogadishu and I need their wanna-be Rambo CAR-15 toting paranoid asses to protect me in while I'm buying jeans in the Gap. I wanna come here and get away from the fear and paranoia that infects the rest of the world, dammit! Is it too much to fucking ask?

I have been on the pointy end of the spear of US foreign policy, I spent a long time learning how manipulated the press and the public are, from the inside, you all were on the outside looking in. I'm no Indiana corn-fed rube, I've been in around the world and IN the news, not watching it at home on fucking TV. Is the press manipulated? Is the public manipulated? Yes and yes! Does it make me feel better to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are being manipulated? Fuuuuuuuck no! But the only thing we on the outside can do is live our lives, I don't swallow 99% of it, because I know better than to do it. But does it make me sleep better to not think about it? You're damn well straight,it does! But I don't swallow any of this horseshit either. My head is not in the sand
There's a hundred more relevant, more important things minds like yours could be contemplating to help save the planet or make a better world . Instead, we are all here debating how paranoid we can be, what fucking good is that. You are all intelligent, articulate people, but the truth is we will never know the truth. So we are only left with the circumstances in the wake. Go ahead, don't trust the government, you shouldn't anyway. But whipping yourself up into a froth over whether JFK was assassinated by Fidel Castro, the mob, or LBJ is just mental masturbation. Oswald got fingered for it and that's the way history will record it, the Warren Commission and the House Subcommittee on Assassinations are footnotes to the partyline of history.
Same deal with this hyperbole and verbosity, the truth died a long time ago, long before Sept 11th, 2001. We will truthfully never know the WHO, and WHY, we are only left with WHAT happened and the world it wrought afterward.

The truth is, there are bad people in the world, bad people who mean to do us harm. People who have sworn their very lives to our destruction. Bad rich people and bad poor people, some are politically connected oligarchs who want to see their profits rise and could give a rat's ass if the world burns to the ground to get it. Others, have nothing left to loose, or they have everything to die for because paradise awaits. It's happened all over the world, people lose something precious, a home, a member of their family, maybe their whole family, and they swear on their lives to destroy those who did it. All over the planet people are finding reasons to go to the Middle East and training to raze America to the ground. The U.S. And Britain have been fucking around in Middle East politics since the discovery of oil in the 1920's. In that nearly 100 years we have made a fuck-ton of enemies, because we are manipulating their political environment. Lots of the peasantry in many of our little serfdoms we've created and kept are currently pissed at us for fucking-over their lives, exploiting their resources, taking their land and killing their mothers,wives and children. Before oil was a commodity no one gave a single shit about that area of the world, now we are neck deep in shit over it.

ROFLMAO

Gee.

See now why I suggest ignoring the hell out of authority? Yes, I pointed out a few things here what I believe are good questions, good cases of documented truths. i did not vote though. People see this crap anyway.

It does not matter if I think X or Y. It will be what it will be. I can sequester off from the herd, improve the self, do what is desired, loved. This gives control to create a different world. I like to refresh reading of this (http://www.arachnoid.com/levels/index.html) from time to time.

* off to figure out which to use as fuel for rocket, veggie oil or tallow *

[Gearbox]

So Gear, why is it so hard to believe Muslim terrorists flew planes into the towers and the Pentagon? The guy currently lopping the heads off journalists left and right on the internet is a British citizen, you don't think there a conspiracy theory too. Or is everything a conspiracy theory?
If is the biggest word in the universe! It's true, manipulating the public perception is the stock and trade of governments. But what good does this knowledge do you? Does it make you happier, or does it make you live in fear and loathing and paranoia?
I don't find it hard to believe that Muslim terrorists WOULD fly planes into the towers and the Pentagon. I find it hard to believe that they DID.
I also find it hard to believe that you insist on clicking and posting in this thread, just to tell everybody how much you don't like this thread.:tongue:
But there you go.....it's Human nature, and bizarre as it can be, I find it fascinating.YAY!

Nope! I don't live in fear, get paranoid or think everything is a conspiracy. IMO you can only deal with things if you know what you have to deal with. I can skip through the daisies singing and dancing for all the joy in the world, as good as any. AND at the same time know what wickedness this species of mine is capable of.
We are quite capable of discussing 9/11 without tying ourselves to the train tracks too. So don't you worry!;)

[tenni]

I don't think of a conspiracy theory readily in Canada.

Which countries have conspiracy theories about events in their country that go on and on regardless of evidence?

Does Britain have a long list of conspiracy theories(political or otherwise?)

There was a building collapsed in Thailand or some south asian country. Many workers died. Is there a conspiracy theory that it was the North American companies that caused the building to collapse?

Why does the USA seem to revel in creating conspiracy theories? (Lincoln, Kennedy etc.)

[BiBedBud]

About that article I mentioned above, here it is….



9/11's secret 28-page history

Families demand release of classified 2002 report detailing foreign-government support for September 11 hijackers.

Robert Kennedy Last updated: 10 Sep 2014 15:20

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/09/911-secret-28-page-history-201499122529308836.html


(QUOTE) A secret 9/11 history exists - one that the few who know it say names at least one foreign country that provided support to some of the 19 hijackers on their murderous mission 13-years ago on Thursday.

Twenty-eight pages from an official 2002 report detailing foreign-government assistance to the September 11 attackers remain classified. Determined 9/11 family members and sympathetic congressmen are pushing hard, however, for the long-awaited release of the missing history of one of the United States' greatest tragedies. (ENDQUOTE)

The article goes on to provide hyperlinks to the “Federation of American Scientists” website where the House-Senate Intelligence Committee’s Joint Inquiry Report can be downloaded (all 858 pages, except it seems the 28 pages that count the most).



pole_smoker,

You asked “What are your theories about what happened at the WTC or how building 7 was standing, then was reported on the news to have fallen, and then did fall looking like a controlled demolition?”

There is only one way for me to look at what I saw that day and in the days after 9/11, and it doesn’t rest on my or anyone else’s “theories”. Rather, it is “The Laws of Physics” and the hard limitations imposed by other hard sciences including Chemistry and Metallurgy that mean THE OFFICIAL STORY IS TOTAL BULLSHIT.

The Official 9/11 Story is ***IMPOSSIBLE***.

RE: The WTC 9/11 attacks; that amount of jet fuel burning that amount of office furniture and paper with that amount of air flow, is never going to cause that structure to fail. It is physically impossible. Even if those specific floors collapsed, it shouldn’t have brought the whole of both Twin Towers down. That’s just plain physics. And even if there was enough heat energy available to melt all that structural steel, it certainly wouldn’t have collapsed at free-fall speed. What I saw on 9/11 is IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with “The Official Story”.

The most damning evidence on this account, are the NUMEROUS photos of diagonally-cut girders and beams in the WTC wreckage. There is no way AQ used hijacked airliners to make diagonal cuts to structural steel girders and beams throughout the entirety of Towers 1, 2 and 7 (7?). For those who don’t recognize what this means: Diagonally-cut girders and beams is a tell-tale sign of controlled demolition; not structural failure owing to thermal degradation of steel.

So, for the record: While it is arguably certain that AQ Terrorists hijacked probably four planes that day, and intentionally crashed two of them into WTC1 and WTC2: That wouldn’t/shouldn’t have been enough to collapse the buildings. Even if you make outlandish and entirely improbable calculations involving way more fuel and way more heat energy; those buildings should not have collapsed the way they did.

The only way for those buildings to collapse the way they did, was through intentionally-placed, specialty explosive charges that would have taken several months to install beforehand.

Understand that we’re talking about ‘Thermite’ based charges, which don’t go-off with a loud ‘bang’ like most explosives. Rather, they burn more like rocket fuel with extremely high temperatures – white-hot – and so melt the steel they’re in contact with. Once the steel reaches that high temperature, it turns into a liquid (some of which was filmed pouring out of those buildings prior to the collapse, and tons of it was still molten hot weeks later, pooled in the basements). This is why the diagonal cuts are made; to allow the girders to slip in the chosen direction.

Evidence of Thermite was also found in the dust residues that blanketed much of the city. Look at that dust with a microscope and then test it with even more sophisticated equipment, and you will find CLEAR PROOF of Thermite being used in massive quantities. Truly, it’s the only way those buildings could have been “pulled” the way they were (to use the owner’s own words – he actually said that, he used the word “pulled” which is demo slang for controlled demolition, in reference to WTC7).

More info on molten metal here: http://moltenmetalsmokinggun.blogspot.ca/ a website which also shows numerous images of diagonally-cut steel girders and even some videos of FDNY guys and their eyeball witness accounts of “rivers of molten steel”. Videos here also regarding molten steel https://www.metabunk.org/threads/molten-and-glowing-metal.2029/

More about Nano-Thermite and all of the Scientifically-inspired “Truthers” calling for “Truth” is available at this excellent website. (Credentialed Scientists, including Nobel Laureates and many top authorities dismiss the official version of 9/11.) Plenty of good videos on this webpage, some quite technical. Near the bottom of this webpage there is actually a 1minute 23second video showing WTC7 coming down as the building’s owner is talking off-hand about the decision having been made to “pull” the building: and it certainly looks like controlled demolition http://investigate911.org/Nano-thermite.htm


Gearbox,

I’m no engineering expert; but I’d have to agree with the guy you saw on TV. Based on my understanding of physics alone; the way those buildings collapsed is impossible, if the whole story is only the official story. Ipso facto: There had to be more going on that day. IMHO controlled demolition is a certainty (see my comments above).

Perhaps even more outlandish, is the NORAD response on that day, which was supposedly befuddled because, by coincidence, there was supposedly an exercise going on that day, and the military couldn’t get themselves out of ‘exercise mode’ quick enough to intercept lumbering airliners. (Geesh!)

Even as the rest of the country was glued to the TV as the attacks unfolded; supposedly NORAD was issuing one “Stand Down” order after another in the mistaken (BS!) belief that it was just an exercise. A moment by moment examination of that day reveals NUMEROUS ‘Stand Down’ orders given to hamstring any military response on that day. Whatever jets the Air Force scrambled as the attacks unfolded, seem to have made a point of flying as slow as they could go (obviously, under orders). A great colour-coded timeline is here http://www.911timeline.net/ where the AF response is critiqued extensively.

As for all that weird crap going on at the time, check this out http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/911.html which is a collection of all the odd-oddities and high strangeness surrounding 9/11. void(), you’d like this page too, because it mentions other instances of false premises drawing the US into wars of aggression.



void(),

You are correct, the United States has a long history of using false premises to start wars of aggression.

They saw the Japanese coming, but LIHOP to draw the country into WWII. Similarly, the ‘Gulf of Tonkin Incident’ was also a false premise to start a war of aggression. Also, the Spanish American war was sparked on a false allegation, and we all know now that Saddam Hussein had no WMDs worthy of a US invasion.

PS: Definitely, go with the tallow. It is more energetic than veggie oil. If you’d like to experiment with veggie oil anyway, I suggest Crisco, which is already a solid, much like tallow.



2bi2Bboring,

I find your cynical, dystopian apathy utterly contemptible. You’re a poor excuse for an American. I doubt if all those who fought and died for your freedom, would have fought as hard for your freedom to not give a shit. Your apathy dishonors everything they fought and bled and died for. SHOULDN’T YOU KNOW BETTER?

Going by what you’ve written above, you seem to know at least a little about “the evil done” by the rich and powerful; yet you seem determined to turn a blind eye, content to stand aside and let that evil happen; so long as you’re free to waste your time on bisexual dot com, unhindered by bloody reality.

I’m not saying you’ve gotta work 24/7 to overthrow the powers that be; but the least you can do is not try to sweep things under the rug.

It may be true that there are a “hundred more relevant, more important things” we should spend our time on; rather than churning 9/11 over and over again. Believe me, I know it (and I act accordingly). However, I am also aware of the fact that if we just let this 9/11 thing pass, we’re setting ourselves up for far worse in future. Even if we do manage to devote 100% of our time, energy and talent on the “hundred more relevant, more important things” we could think-up – all of it could come to naught, if we relinquish our duty to honour the truth. That’s basic. Skip the basics and everything else is subject to collapse.

PS: If you think you “see enough of the real world on (your) TV at night between 6-7pm”, then you might as well have your head up your ass, anyways (by your own admission?). You seem to know it is BS, but you’re still consuming it, and buying-in? You seem to be worried about the “circumstances in the wake” and “the world it wrought afterward”, but without any willingness to look ahead of all that and be as responsible for your fellow Americans now, as your foregoing American heroes were for you. That’s why I think you’re a poor excuse for an American.

You seem to me to be a very confused, indeed self-conflicted person. You should be both ashamed and better motivated than you obviously aren’t to re-take your country back from those who see your countrymen and women as chattel, hardly as pawns even the very best of you. I doubt you even have the decency to vote; and if you ever did, I’ll bet it was for one of the big two parties – because people like you just want to side with the winner, and that’s how you mark your ballot, like you’re placing a bet on a favourite.

Americans need a government that won’t cause so much trouble around the world; else they are literally risking their own lives, certainly their freedoms and way of life. FOR THE RECORD (most Americans still don’t understand): The American Government has backed the “House of Saud” as the leaders of Saudi Arabia, which hosts the two holiest sites in Islam; which grants America effective price discounts on oil, and helps America enforce pricing of oil in US dollars (hence the term “Petrodollar”, which is like having unlimited credit – except it’s not entirely unlimited!). If citizens there in Arabia could vote, they’d certainly vote for someone other than King Faisal or Abdullah or whoever is on the throne at the moment; but then Americans might lose all that juice and power.

So, America backs the House of Saud; which makes Arabs there angry, causing terrorism. Simultaneously, America backs Israel, and effectively buys peace for Israel by paying off yet another dictator of Arabs, currently the Sisi Regime in Egypt; which makes many Arabs there angry, causing terrorism. All the while, Israel tries to get all of the land that was once Palestine, using a lot of American money and weapons and UNSC vetoes in the process; which makes many Arabs angry, causing terrorism. For similar and alternate reasons, the American Government backs many dictatorships around the world, many of them in Arab and Moslem countries; and this makes many Arabs and Moslems angry, all over the world, causing terrorism.

Accordingly, it’s more than a little disingenuous to put all the blame for this state of affairs on Arabs or Moslems or even on the bona fide terrorists out there. Make no mistake: I’m not one to grant any cover to Pakistani or Arab terrorists or the men behind them, but there can be no doubt that the “facilitator in chief” of all of it is within or otherwise in control of the US Government.

FOR THE RECORD: I’m not saying that Islamist Terrorists didn’t hijack planes that day, because they did – they even managed to crash two of them into the WTC1&2. But that CANNOT explain everything that happened; it can’t explain the building collapses and it can’t explain the small hole in the Pentagon (or what actually happened to that plane that supposedly crashed there). TO BE CLEAR: Islamic terrorists did skyjack planes that day and crashed into the WTC1&2, but what collapsed the building was a parallel conspiracy that used controlled demolition. That’s the only explanation that approaches sense. Islamist Terrorists certainly can’t explain the obscenely inept military (non)response on that day, either. I mean, not a single American got a single shot-off that day? Why was the airspace over Washington wide-open, all the while those attacks unfolded? It’s simply UNBELIEVABLE.

It’s just unbelievable that the Military HQ of the World’s only ‘Super Power’ was attacked with a slow-flying jetliner, as the WTC burned (and long after someone whispered in Bush’s ear “Mr. President, we’re under attack”, which caused him to just sit there for seven minutes, doing nothing). It’s just simply un-believable that things happened like the official story says.

Luckily, a largely empty wing of the Pentagon was “struck”, and aside from those (comparatively few) killed there, the greatest loss was THE ENTIRE PAPER TRAIL that was about to be the focal point of an investigation into missing tens of billions of dollars of military spending. That’s right, Congress had instructed files to be “sequestered” that could have proven “misdeeds” and these were all lost in the 9/11 Pentagon “attack”. Similarly, for some completely un-believable reason, the FBI or CIA moved one of their “counter terrorism centers” into the WTC1 or 2, just prior to the attacks; which meant that a lot of that info and intel was lost, when those buildings game down – and this after the site was already attacked once before in 1993 – it’s just UNBELIEVABLE.

A viable truth must explain these things, and that truth points to more “evildoers” at work for 9/11 than are officially recognized. As such, not only do I want JUSTICE, I am very concerned about those who’ve gotten away with it. They could do much worse in future, to any or all of us (and drag the whole world into a war, by virtue of “treaty obligations” like Article 5 of the NATO charter).

[elian]

I've watched a few documentaries, by no means does that make me an expert but my understanding is that Bin Laden's plan to "bring down the West" was to draw the US into a large conflict and bankrupt us..

How did he do?


..not to mention making the citizenry paranoid and divisive.. What good is freedom if all you do is hide in your own house?

[BiBedBud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIU6ZxYU3A



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmuzyWC60eE

[2bi2Bboring]

Gearbox
Apologies, I meant no offense. I was a bit unraveled and should have just ignored the thread. I find myself wishing I had at this point. i actually tried to remove that part of the comment but my hour of edit time expired and I had to let it stand. Sincere apologies.

BiBedBud
I'm not sure where to start with you, I never read a word you said because most of it is conspiracy theory bullshit! Yup, your THAT guy, the one everyone should avoid this subject around. I dismissed you, so you attacked me, and you didn't question my logic or my information, you attacked me, impugned my character publicly and insulted me.
I find it ironic a Canadian is accusing me of being a bad American about the attack on MY country. Obviously, there's something wrong here. I have no idea what it means to be a good Canadian on any subject, I would say you are about the same on the subject of being an American, be mindful that one shouldn't speak about things they don't know about unless to ask a question.
I would refer you sir, to the bottom of the page right below that box that says +Reply to Thread to rule #2 -"Be polite. Flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person."
You accused me of dishonoring the men and women of my countries military and sullying the blood shed in the name of my freedom. Well, I would say I am one and some of that blood is my own. I am a decorated U.S. military combat veteran, and I support my fellow veterans and service member in word and in deed. I can hold whatever opinions I wish, and feel like I have earned the right to them because I paid for that freedom with my own blood. My brothers and sisters in arms would say, " though I may not agree with your words,I will defend to the death your right to say them." I have merely exercised MY right under MY First Amendment as a U.S. citizen, we don't condemn people for opinions here in America. We do chastise them for being an asshole though.

[elian]

..and there are still people in the world who just can't believe that the Holocaust happened in Germany, that's why some of the camps were still left standing - you can go there and see them today..

So, when my friends and I were very young and immature teenagers and the internet was a new thing, one of us downloaded something with a title along the lines of "The Anarchist's Cookbook" or something like that..and printed the whole thing on the high speed line printer at school.

As far as I know none of us ever took it seriously, and I'm sure the copy of it is long gone but I remember we made a lot of jokes about how to remodel your house using the recipe it contained for using thermite to melt a concrete deck. How weird that twenty-something years later that's the only thing I can remember about it. So, if 5 teenage boys could find that on the internet in 1992, it's not like that knowledge isn't freely available if you know where to look.

Remember that this wasn't the first time the same group tried to bring down WTC, they had tried much earlier to do it through bombing in the 90's but failed, the towers apparently withstood that attempt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombing

Not only that but we've come to find out the Bill Clinton apparently had a shot at killing Osama Bin Laden as well.

"I nearly got him. And I could have killed him, but I would have to destroy a little town called Kandahar in Afghanistan and kill 300 innocent women and children, and then I would have been no better than him."

There are definitely people in the world who don't like the United States, I guess before 9/11 a lot of US Citizens didn't realize that?

I don't like that we have been at more than a decade of war. I don't like the way our country is polarized and divided, people can't even have basic respect any more if they don't agree with you. I happen to think that a "war on terror" is probably too similar to a "war on drugs" .. it's not that those things are aren't evil - but unfortunately they can be as open-ended as you'd like them to be because there will ALWAYS be evil in the world.

I had an opportunity to hear a talk from the bureau chief of reporting in the Middle East from NPR. She said that there is an amazing sense of history tied to the land. Here in the US there is plenty of land and opportunity such that if you don't like your life circumstances you can literally pick up, move elsewhere and start over. She said that over there people talk about the crusades as though it happened yesterday; because everywhere you look there is history and there is nowhere to go that you can escape it.

She literally asked a "pretty bad" man - "How is it that you can justify what you are doing?" - to which he took a faded photo of an old man with all of his children around him out of his pocket. The man pointed to the photo and said, "He made me promise that we would get our land back."

Believe it or not, there are some forces that are stronger than a trillion dollar defense budget. One is love - even if it twisted into something horrible that can justify murder, rape, extortion..

The other thing she said was that Islam has yet to go through any sort of reformation in the same way that Christianity did, therefore she was glad that we were there, trying to make room for democracy and more moderate voices to speak.

There aren't words to describe what our service members have done, I do think that they fought for freedom and justice, or at least to promote our own interests in the region; but I don't know that you can overcome 500 years of oppression overnight. Entire generations of people who only know violence leave the country bitter and numb. At least we tried...I am sorry. I hope that the people with the power to press the button will remember the costs.

What we ALL need to understand is that as long as there are corrupt world governments like the former Iraqi regime who gladly steal the resources of their own people hand over fist all the while saying, “Oh, woe is me, all of our problems are the fault of someone else” and as long as there are fanatical demagogues who lust for power and greed that can convince people that religion is about justifying hatred, sooner or later we will ALL suffer.

If what we are fighting for is to stand up for human rights and protect the rights of moderate people who want to practice their religion peacefully, then bless those who are fighting for freedom. If that is not why we are fighting, then perhaps we need to step back and examine just what we are fighting for. The reality is we cannot do this alone, we need the support of our own country, the support of other nations and the trust of those we are supposedly helping in order to bring more stability into the world.

[Gypsy_Rose]

I'm not voting as i am not convinced 100%, but there are too many questions and inconsistencies and doubts to think it is completely outside of the realm of possibility. I know from being in corporate management that works with the govt how much subterfuge, manipulation and deceit exist at my low level of the food chain. Magnify that up to the level of the white house and it is totally plausible that what we were told and shown in the media is not what happened, and that what really happened is so horrific, we were not told because we couldn't handle it. No one wants to hear their loved ones were "collateral damage" in a larger chess game being played by the governments of this planet.

To the side bar discussion here, if a forum thread exists about a topic you find offensive or disturbing, why read the thread in the first place much less come in and post about how the thread shouldn't exist? That smacks of trollish behavior to me. IMHO, YMMV. Cheers.

To all the lives lost that day: RIP, you will never be forgotten.

[tenni]

To the side bar discussion here, if a forum thread exists about a topic you find offensive or disturbing, why read the thread in the first place much less come in and post about how the thread shouldn't exist? That smacks of trollish behavior to me. IMHO, YMMV. Cheers. .

This is an interesting comment that I have read similar comments on this site before. I get the subtext meaning (right or wrong) that such thought of
"if you don't like what I say keep quiet and don't comment"

Imo people have a right to express their views on any topic introduced on this site regardless whether it is about sexual acts, political positions etc. Otherwise, we end up with pablum postings about how big is your cock, Does anyone like"...etc...lol Disagreement is not acting troll like imo.

I agree with perhaps the other alternate perspective that yes, if this upsets you maybe you will feel better not to read it. Feel justified to comment though that you find it distasteful for a bisexual mixed gender site, etc. We should not be afraid of well expressed views on any topic. Some topics such as fisting may not be the best to post on a bisexual site for the sake of respect. Posting gross offensive images can be delicate and I wonder why someone wants to use this site as a porn site if not to disturb and destroy any more civilized conversations. Fortunately, those posters were found to need a time out and that more than vanilla porn has vanished.

However, it is your right to read and react to anything on this site as long as you adhere to the rules about dealing with the issue and not the person per s ei

[myschyfnmayhem]

No but I firmly believe certain parts of the Govt knew it was coming and had policies in place to exploit the confusion after the events. I also believe certain of the Elite 1% and its higher lackies had contingencies for any event that let them get away with more Class War attacks on society. Our society has become much more militaristic since 9/11, we've given up rights,we've had major social freedoms disolved,our police forces are more like occupying armies than public protection. Our President openly lied to the people and admitted to interrogation methods that go against everything we were taught as Americans all our lives. It set America up to become this psuedoFascist/Imperialist state we've allowed the wealthy to form of a shell shocked population.

[Gypsy_Rose]

"if you don't like what I say keep quiet and don't comment"

that is not what i said. please don't twist my words.

when people on facebook post things i find upsetting, like animal abuse, i don't look at it. so i don't understand why someone would go read a thread topic that they know in advance is only going to upset or offend them, unless they are just looking for trouble.

when someone comes into a thread only to post disparaging remarks and belittle the topic, i do not feel that furthers or adds to an intelligent conversation and debate, and therefore offers little value to the thread topic. and while the old first amendment gives everyone the right to their opinion and the expression of it, you know what they say about opinions. i've always said, just because you can, doesn't always mean you should.

~shrug~

but i am sure someone will find a way to argue with this, after all it's the internet, where we all can speak our mind, and feel like we have some small sense of power and control. so that's exactly what everyone does. whatevs, have fun. i feel this has gone way too far off topic from the OP so i will just excuse myself from further discussion.

[guywholikesboth]

The Trade Center was built with the support beams bolted to the outside walls the bolts were only 6 inches each floor contained 1 acre of concreate The reason the second tower hit fell first was because the plane hit much lower than the first When the bolts bent with fron the heat of the fire it could no longer support the floor and that is why it looks like a controlled demolition. aside from the jet fuel the office were load with flamable products such as Furnitur, papers wallpapers and other items. After the first attach they descovered that the fire retarted foam was not good and they were in the process of repairing that the higher the floors the less retarting material was found. When they were built they sparayed the foam on and many days it was windy u could see it in the air

[open2both]

INSIDE JOB??
ARE U F*CKING ME?????

[Gearbox]

Gearbox
Apologies, I meant no offense. I was a bit unraveled and should have just ignored the thread. I find myself wishing I had at this point. i actually tried to remove that part of the comment but my hour of edit time expired and I had to let it stand. Sincere apologies.
I'd have gone for the bit about tinfoil hats and the need for prescription drugs, if you wanted to be insulting.:bigrin:
Am not insulted. I just get annoyed (and occasionally sarcastic.:rolleyes:) when Joe claims that Bob is insane and needs medical help coz he doesn't share his beliefs.......and THAT is put forward as support for Joe's beliefs.lol
It's an attempt to silence by ridicule, and that's always a 'red flag' in various shades, and kinda like an open wound to nosy sharks.
YES I admit to going on Youtube knowing I'll get annoyed too. Evolution V's Creationism is great for that.:bigrin:

[BiBedBud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOI4pfeM1o

[BiBedBud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiWbR51suoM



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPVq3q6iKms





FYI: All of the men depicted in the above videos are SUPER SEXY, IMO!!!! (Just thought I'd add that, given our venue here. To me: Thinking, thoughtful people are generally SEXY, and these gentlemen are def that. These people are so unlike sheeple, not going along to get along -- taking a stand for the truth.

[jamieknyc]

Unfortunately, every September 11th these idiotic conspiracy theories crop up again. As a survivor, I find it offensive.

[pole_smoker]

Unfortunately, every September 11th these idiotic conspiracy theories crop up again. As a survivor, I find it offensive.
There's nothing wrong with questioning anything. Including what happened on Sept 11, 2001 in NYC.

People who question 9/11 are not idiotic. Did your read the "official report"?

It's full of flaws like BiBedBud and others have posted.

It is not the problem of people who question the report or the "official story" that you are offended.

Everyone and their mom claims to be a 9/11 survivor...yet very few actually are, and there have been a lot of people who claimed to be just to get money, or fake sympathy since they are severly mentally ill.

There were 9/11 survivors actually survivors who said how the buildings were brought down not via planes or jet fuel but by detonation. Anyone can see in the videos that this happened.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

I voted for 'yes' not because I believe that Bush II and his administration planned it all and did it all.

But because the DIA found out about the plan, told the Clinton administration, and nothing was done.

Even with the horrible thing that happened at the WTC in 1993 nothing was done.

Clinton, and Bush II did want to escalate a war in Iraq for oil and money, and because the United States has been in some war or conflict constantly since WW I.

Obama is now doing the exact same thing continuing the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and he wants to start more "conflicts" or wars in other countries as well. He'll be remembered as the failure of a president he is.

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html (http://www.ae911truth.org/)

[BiBedBud]

Unfortunately, every September 11th these idiotic conspiracy theories crop up again. As a survivor, I find it offensive.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIy9hjB3DGk



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfxkcBmZfK0

[void()]

Unfortunately, every September 11th these idiotic conspiracy theories crop up again. As a survivor, I find it offensive.

conspiracy (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/133670/conspiracy) theory (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/theory)

Why would it offend you to know that people acted unlawfully against other people? Is this not what your occupation entails? Do I not recall correctly? Are you not a lawyer? Do you not also seek cause and effect? Do you doubt people do collude to "fleece" other people all the time? Are you really that naive?

You leave yourself open for many questions. Yet never seem to answer any. None here are "beneath" you. Get off your pole horse. That you are on it, is what is truly "offensive". As otherwise said, "come on down off your cross, we need the lumber for building gallows."

[2bi2Bboring]

http://aattp.org/gop-candidate-sandy-hook-was-hoax-made-up-to-pass-gun-control-video/

It all begins to sound like this ammosexual bullshit, blah,blah,blah! Yeah, there is a definite attempt to lie to us, it's all lies and manipulation, the cover ups story and the bullshit that follows. The truth is veiled in smoke and mirrors, wrapped in enigma and muddled by a conflagration of possibility that we are bombarded with in the wake. Throw in a smattering of truth and next thing you know a conspiracy theory is born. We will never know the truth, you're just getting your panties in a wad. Best to admit the only truth you'll have from it all, that the truth died in the towers with everyone else. Tell yourself whatever you want, that the only truth left.

[BiBedBud]

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear enough.

It seems we all think an enormous crime was committed that day -- a terrorist attack -- except some of us (not me) think it's a smaller crime than people like me, who see it is a MUCH bigger crime, and a more serious, more pernicious, more EVIL attack than the "Official 9/11 Conspiracy" (ostensibly involving only a bunch of A-rabs).

IMO, any A-rabs that might have been involved in 9/11, were surely the bit players -- the patsies. This is why I believe the real culprits are getting away with it.

This would seem to be the only logical point of contention that can even be entertained, intelligently, because any other kind of "MY CT versus your CT" quickly descends into a drooling denial of the basic laws of physics.

The laws of motion, the laws of conservation of energy and mass -- these things alone CLEARLY SAY THAT THE OFFICIAL 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORY (CT) is FALSE. The attacks could not have been done as "Officially Explained". It's BULLSHIT!

Nobody can make me eat bullshit. Unlike some (mindlessly) posting in this thread; I am not one to sit down at the TV between 6-and-7 every evening, and just consume whatever BS is served each evening -- knowing that it's BS; only to shrug about it. To me, that kind of thing is contemptible. When it also denies the laws of physics, it's also asinine, in the extreme.

As for being patriotic about things; I would have thought that should start with preserving and enforcing the constitution. Instead, I've seen it SHREDDED while the flag was waved around as some kind of distraction. It’s heartbreaking, for me as a Canadian, to see it work as well as it has and continues to work on oh so many Americans across the United States.

FOR THE RECORD: "Canadians want for others, what we want for ourselves." That's virtually an official motto for Canadianism (although, not all of us always live up to it, but that's a whole other matter).

As a Canadian who is also a "news junkie" (which for me means, I've always been a very keen observer of the USA, but always from the perspective of an outsider; and always within a rather well-informed, deeply internationalized context); the 9/11 Attacks, and especially the aftermath were extremely disheartening for me to watch. I never would have expected so many Americans in the United States to shirk their highest ideals.

Shrugging it off with “We’ll never know” is…….. SO LOW that I am at a loss for words to describe just how low that shit is. I am not often at a loss for words, but this shit is so low I can’t come up with anything adequately low. Let’s just say that eating real-life BULLSHIT straight out of some bull’s STINKING ASS should be like a trillion percent more socially acceptable than this “We’ll never know” line of UTTER BOLLOCKS.

Aren't “AMERICANS” supposed to "Question Authority"? Isn't that a big part -- perhaps the most important part of being a "Good American"? Shouldn't every American in the entire United States be able to manage this much, even without any knowledge of science?

GO TALK TO ANY WELDER with an oxy/acetylene torch -- when they turn on the acetylene gas and spark it, at first the flame is orange-red and it produces dark, sooty smoke (NB: Smoke is actually, un-burned fuel). Ask the welder how long it takes to melt steel without any oxygen gas added to the flame (NB: Atmospheric oxygen is only about 19%, but that oxy tank is 100% pure oxygen). ANY WELDER will plainly tell you that without oxygen, such an orange-red, sooty flame with smoke will NEVER GET HOT ENOUGH TO CUT OR EVEN WEAKEN STEEL. This is the whole reason why we build tall buildings with steel. No fire has EVER collapsed any steel-framed building, anywhere in the world, even after uncontrolled office fires lasting 16+ hours. We know most of the jet fuel was burned-up in an instant – that much is on film/video; and no floor of any WTC building was supplied with high-pressure, pure oxygen (like a welder would use). We can tell no such oxygenated airflow was ever produced, judging by the dark smoke that poured-out. If there was more oxygen, that smoke would have disappeared entirely, like when YOUR WELDER turns-on the oxygen supply in his torch.

By plain sight alone; we can tell those fires never got enough to cut or melt or even weaken steel. That fire could never have melted steel. (NB: Molten aluminum does not glow or drip like molten steel does. Molten aluminum flows very thin and remains silvery until it ‘fluoresces’ and goes bright yellow. Other metals fluoresce with different colours and at different temperatures. By plainly viewing the colour and consistency of the molten material dripping from the windows of WTC 1 and 2; we can deduce with a high degree of accuracy, the heat involved – and this heat is UNEXPLAINED BY THE OFFICIAL 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORY (involving only a bunch of terrorists and box-cutters and airplanes).

That day, as I watched on TV, and I saw the molten steel pouring-out (see video I linked above); I knew that was suspicious right away. Then, when the buildings collapsed, symmetrically; that was simply UN-BELIEVABLE. It seemed IMPOSSIBLE that the “asymmetrical heat” of such a chaotic event, should have deformed steel asymmetrically (even assuming things were hot enough), meaning the buildings would not have collapsed straight-down, onto its own footprint – if anything, they should have toppled-over (which is still, unbelievable). If anything, even if by miracle enough heat was there, it would not have fallen straight down, and NEVER AT “FREE-FALL” SPEED. This is why demolition experts use explosives and such, because FIRE WON'T DO IT. Otherwise, don't you think demolition experts everywhere would spare the expense and trouble of wires and explosives, if fire would suffice?

Even if you are entirely unable to question authority (normally, only possible after a lobotomy, and I'm supposedly the crazy one!); even if you've got absolutely no sense of physics or any other science, because you yourself can cut a brick of cheese effortlessly, and any tool in your hand always passes-through whatever material you're cutting or grinding, without slowing-down at all and without you having to apply any extra pressure (which is the official explanation behind the free-fall speed collapse of all three (3) buildings that collapsed in NYC on 9/11 -- even if you can magically do all these things -- even knock down three buildings with two planes because you're like, GOD or something...................... and you actually do strut around town opening doors as if they’re camera shutters, because, like, you’re so powerful you’re entirely unacquainted with any kind of resistance…………. Even if this is the case for you…………

I have to wonder if some people (not me, and not any so-called "Truther" I've ever encountered)............. I have to wonder if some people actually do have no decency, whatsoever.

Please note: When I've questioned some people's thinking, based on what they've written, and have gone on to question their morality, their character and now whether or not they've got any sense of decency: These are not "ad hominem attacks", which are not my style. Also, please note: Newtonian physics is not a theory. Photographic evidence is not a theory. Chemical analysis is not a theory. Physical evidence is not a theory. THESE ARE CALLED FACTS. These kinds of facts feature in courts of law across the world, supposedly including the United States of America................. except regarding 9/11.

Even if you don't know shit about science, and you're not one to question authority: If there is any possibility that anyone is getting away with anything 9/11 related; shouldn't that be enough of a reason to ask more questions? To launch an enquiry? To DEMAND an enquiry with subpoena and contempt authority? It’s never been done! (RECALL, whatever questions were ever put to the President and Vice President (Bush/Cheney), these questions were asked in private, behind closed doors, and their answers – such as they were – were kept confidential.

Without adequate transparency established in the United States -- thinking people like me around the entire world -- we will question; what it means to have a military-security alliance with such a "thing" as has become “The United States of America” (because the USA is certainly not what it once was)

If nothing else; shouldn’t this offer enough of a reason, for “Good Americans” to DEMAND JUSTICE?

Else, “Good Americans” will be remembered as equivalent to the so-called “Good Germans” (who accepted Nazism).

Kindly note: The above isn’t any kind of “Anti-American” rant. In truth, it’s a PLEA FOR JUSTICE made with only the best wishes for the good and upstanding people that certainly remain in the United States of America.

Whosoever dares to belittle, ridicule or quash this SINCERE call for JUSTICE, I hereby declare are LOW-LIFE, SCUM-SUCKING ENEMIES OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE – ENEMIES OF THE TRUTH, AND ARE DESERVING OF DEATH, IMHO.

Drew, I hope that’s not a controversial comment for bisexual dot com, but it’s just how I feel. Since both Canadian and American taxpayers paid money to have this death served in Afghanistan to our supposed enemies over there; I should expect that official government policy should concur. If you receive a moderation complaint because I’ve just called for some people to be served with death; kindly let us all know who that is.

Some of us, at least, are taking names.



PS: Americans who want to “do the right thing” should definitely vote for a “third-party candidate” who has publically committed to a transparent, high-level, probably web-cast/C-SPAN broadcasted inquiry; with full power to subpoena and the ability to hold witnesses in contempt for the rest of their natural lives, if they don’t serve-up the TRUTH ABOUT 9/11. Bush and Cheney should be among those first called to testify, and then Rumsfeld, Pearle, Wolfowitz, Rice, Armitage, Powell, everyone with PNAC, et cetera, et cetera (yeah, I want everyone, whether inside government or above it). I’ll be hoping for some death penalties, long, drawn-out and badly botched ones, which is very much unlike me. Otherwise, strip the guilty naked and put them in a zoo, like the sub-humans that they are.

We can have schoolchildren and other primates visit, to throw faeces.

Let the scum eat shit, for once.


PPS: If you haven’t voted in the poll yet, but you’re going to, please do us a favour: We can’t see who has voted and how. In the name of transparency, please copy-paste the names of all those who voted, and how they voted, into a post in this thread. I wanna know (especially, if a bunch of new members have registered since the OP in this thread by pole_smoker). Organized “denialists” are now standard features of any modern propaganda campaign, and I’ve seen this kind of thing happen elsewhere online; mostly by fossil fuel lobbies covering up the reality of climate change. Organized “denialists” are now a fixture in the multi-billion dollar PR industry. They literally call it “social engineering” or “opinion forming” to post BS in online discussion forums, and this is part of how democracy has been subverted with lies and obfuscation. It’s called “Manufacturing Consent” (read “Chomsky” for more information).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAGRuRKudO4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ECsoa5h-4

[BiBedBud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIQHVv-h-vg

[BiBedBud]

RETRACTION: I want to repudiate a comment I made above, because I no longer think that otherwise well-intentioned ignoramuses should be killed. I was angry when I wrote that above, a few moments ago, and now that I am composed again, I want to say that we should not kill actual idiots. We should try to educate them, because it’s possible we can cure their ignorance.


What we cannot abide, is them wallowing in their ignorance, because this is dangerous for the rest of us.

Please forgive me, my earlier lapse (noted here).

Otherwise, I believe those involved, including those knowingly involved in even just the cover-up (as ‘accessories after the fact’ – denialist bullshit artists that they are); they should be judged and then perhaps killed, if the evidence compels such a judgement.


THERE ARE PATRIOTIC AMERICANS WITH QUESTION LEFT UNANSWERED BY THE OFFICIAL 9/11 CONSPIRACY THEORY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHAiB7tOeGo

[pole_smoker]

conspiracy (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/133670/conspiracy) theory (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/theory)

Why would it offend you to know that people acted unlawfully against other people? Is this not what your occupation entails? Do I not recall correctly? Are you not a lawyer? Do you not also seek cause and effect? Do you doubt people do collude to "fleece" other people all the time? Are you really that naive?

You leave yourself open for many questions. Yet never seem to answer any. None here are "beneath" you. Get off your pole horse. That you are on it, is what is truly "offensive". As otherwise said, "come on down off your cross, we need the lumber for building gallows."
I've met all sort of people who claim to be (insert various professions here: doctor, scientist, psychologist/psychiatrist/counselor, lawyer, military personnel, etc. just about anything and everything really...) on the internet.

But in reality they are not.

Yes what you described (people groups of people, or politicians acting unlawfully against people) does happen.

It's happened in the past, and it will happen in the future.

[void()]

Yes what you described (people groups of people, or politicians acting unlawfully against people) does happen.

It's happened in the past, and it will happen in the future.

There was a Roman adage, paraphrasing because memory at times misses. "The public wants cheated." "Cheat them we shall."

Forget exactly who was alleged to have said what but recall it was someone in the political classes. Romans also gave us the military strategy of poisoning wells. "If we cannot have it, none shall." Compare that to Sherman's "scorched earth" strategy, or even the same strategy used today. It is a very immature strategy & policy, imho.

"An eye for an eye, leaves the world blind."

[pole_smoker]

This is an excellent documentary about what happened that day.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRm8M-qOjQ

[2bi2Bboring]

Ok, now you're really treading on thin ice. No actually, what you've done is more serious than that. When you're calling for the death of people simply because they don't wish to hear your opinion you've crossed a line, retraction or not. I'm done!

[pole_smoker]

Ok, now you're really treading on thin ice. No actually, what you've done is more serious than that. When you're calling for the death of people simply because they don't wish to hear your opinion you've crossed a line, retraction or not. I'm done!
Nobody is saying that, or claiming that they want this.

I read void's post and it has more to do with history/military tactics, and genocide than what you're claiming.

OK I read the other post. He did post a retraction.

[BiBedBud]

Ok, now you're really treading on thin ice. No actually, what you've done is more serious than that. When you're calling for the death of people simply because they don't wish to hear your opinion you've crossed a line, retraction or not. I'm done!

Actually, I have CLEARLY called for an *adjudicated death penalty* for anyone involved in 9/11. If the guilty are judged less culpable than death would demand, then let them go to prison; I'll not complain, but I do want them tried! I specifically said anyone knowingly involved “after the fact” (who knows the murderous stakes) should also face the death penalty; because this is clearly an ongoing CONSPIRACY to murder even more innocents (in the USA, in Afghanistan – especially when you consider that NO AFGHAN is named by any legal document or anything else credible, to have been involved in 9/11 in the slightest way), plus everyone killed in Iraq, particularly since they had NO WMDs worth invading a foreign country over; which *WAS* against international law, and in frequent and flagrant violation of the “Laws of War”, the Geneva Conventions, et cetera, et cetera.

With some considerable legal weight, it can be argued that everything following from an “illegal invasion”, and especially everything stemming from “express breaches” of the Geneva Conventions (like everything I’ve heard about mass, indiscriminate detentions, hooding PoWs as SOP, the use of area weapons in civilian areas, and Abu Graib and Guantanamo, etc.); THESE ARE WAR CRIMES.

MANY OTHERWISE INNOCENT, IF SUB-CRIMINALLY IGNORANT AMERICANS HAVE BEEN TRICKED INTO COMMITTING WAR CRIMES.

How big a crime is this? Doesn’t this kind of a lie, deserve the death penalty?
If I go to the movies and yell “Fire, Fire” and I cause a stampede that kills people; won’t I face the death penalty? Isn’t this US Law?

2bi2Bboring: Have you ever “Hooded” a PoW? Did you “cut loose” in a “declared free fire zone”? Did you fire on anyone, after they dropped their weapon, or while they were retreating? How about firing on those coming to aid the wounded, which is inherent with all so-called “double tap” airstrikes? Have you seen this FAMOUS video of SEVERAL WAR CRIMES (failing to distinguish between combatants and civilians, firing on those caring for the wounded……….).

WIKILIEAKS video of “Collateral Murder” excerpts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0 The full video is available at www.collateralmurder.com (http://www.collateralmurder.com)

If you’ve ever hooded PoWs; fired without distinguishing between combatants and civilians; fired on the wounded or retreating; fired on those providing medial care; then you too are a WAR CRIMINAL. Please note the "IF"....... and answer it, because you've brought it up -- your "service", and I want to know your moral authority, which you proclaim, I wanna know on what it's founded.

BTW, a then 15-year old Canadian citizen (son of a Talib) was convicted as a so-called War Criminal, even though he stands accused of throwing a grenade over a wall…….. So how could he know there was a so-called medic on the other side? Not to mention, he was already shot to shit by that time, and couldn’t have thrown anything; on top of being a by-the-book “child soldier” who deserved care as per the Laws of War, instead he gets pressured into signing a false confession while being held in Gitmo; and now he’s the war criminal!

I suspect that IF you are a War Criminal; that this explains your complete intransigence WRT 9/11.


FYI: After WWII, the United States tried and executed Japanese for waterboarding Americans held as PoWs. Nowadays, that’s “an approved technique” for US Interrogators. It’s policy. In Nuremburg, again after WWII, Americans stood in judgement of Germans who declared “I was just following orders”. They were ALL HUNG AS WAR CRIMINALS.

Perhaps your RoEs and your SOPs “in country” are A-OK under US Law; but according to the Geneva Conventions (which, BTW, are supposed to be US Law also, which is what it means to sign an international treaty), according to the law – and apparently, according to the moral crumbs of conscience remaining in many PTSD sufferers – there is guilt.

I suspect, this guilt is a big part of why some people are so heavily invested in such an ENORMOUS LIE as was told on 9/11 and about it since.

That TRUTH is so fucking ugly, I can barely stand to look at it, myself. (But I think that those who can, are SUPER SEXY!)

I thought that all 9/11 conspirators should face the death penalty – even those involved after the fact, only “just” in the cover-up; because it’s the cover-up, more than the 9/11 attacks themselves, that has shed the most blood (by marching Americans and many others from around the world, into the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq). That's right CANADIANS HAVE A STAKE IN THIS TOO!

I thought this was US Law, the death penalty for 9/11 attackers.

George Bush even declared “Wanted, dead or alive”; which seemingly had the weight of law, also (by way of ‘Executive Action Memos’ or whatever nonsense Obama is still inventing out of thin air, in CONTEMPT for the US Constitution).

It seems to me and many others, that it is getting increasingly difficult to understand “US Law”, since you guys have been selectively ignoring it, or inventing shit outside the law to commit some of the worse WAR CRIMES of the last half-century………………….. It’s getting harder and harder for anyone outside of the United States to make any sense whatsoever of US Law.

Please correct me, if I’m wrong about US Law, and perhaps I’ll post a further retraction.

Otherwise, spare me the ridiculously false indignation, and the meager attempts to stuff words into my posts that I’ve never written.

[Just how low, can some go?]







Who here DARES deny this fine, upstanding American HERO, his calls for TRUTH AND JUSTICE FOR 9/11............. Who?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4vI1DVjQ0M

[void()]

When you're calling for the death of people simply because they don't wish to hear your opinion you've crossed a line, retraction or not.


I read void's post and it has more to do with history/military tactics, and genocide than what you're claiming.

At most I may suggest someone ignore my posts. I tell myself the same. If it is something you no longer desire reading / hearing, tune it out. The site has an ignore feature. I have been finding it useful, hopefully others do as well.

This is freely available public forum. People will write / say things you do not agree with. "We can agree to disagree about that", is a common phrase in my mind. Everyone has rectums, everyone has opinions and at times it is difficult to discern which smells worse. So tuning out is helpful. It is the worst or closest I would come to a threat, "stop X or I'll ignore you."

<sarcasm>
Yes, I know it is a terrifying and horrible threat, to be ignored by me. *LOL* I really feel unjustly terrorized and mistreated to an extent of losing sleep over those who ignore me. *ROFLMAO*
</sarcasm>

I honestly do not even take notice if people ignore me. Doubt others take notice if I ignore them. So, yes it is a very terrible threat indeed.

*wanders along pondering things to do with plastic 2L soda bottles aside from landfill, has a few ideas but is pondering so as to get a rather large list*

[BiBedBud]

The Trade Center was built with the support beams bolted to the outside walls the bolts were only 6 inches each floor contained 1 acre of concreate The reason the second tower hit fell first was because the plane hit much lower than the first When the bolts bent with fron the heat of the fire it could no longer support the floor and that is why it looks like a controlled demolition. aside from the jet fuel the office were load with flamable products such as Furnitur, papers wallpapers and other items. After the first attach they descovered that the fire retarted foam was not good and they were in the process of repairing that the higher the floors the less retarting material was found. When they were built they sparayed the foam on and many days it was windy u could see it in the air

guywholikesboth,

Thank you for posting in this thread, and caring enough to add your comments on this extremely important issue.

What you have described in your post above is called by the experts the “truss failure theory” which is a “progressive collapse” scenario that is commonly called “the pancake theory”. The problem with this scenario is that it was not observed on 9/11 – there is zero evidence for it – on top of the fact that it is scientifically impossible. To be clear: We have film and video that shows something else going on; plain to see; and in the end, THERE WAS NO PANCAKE OF PILLED-UP FLOORS stacked on top of each other. Everything was pulverized, which makes no sense (because one object can pulverize another only if it’s harder and denser, but two objects of the same material *will pulverize each other at the same rate*. Even if “pancaking floors” were causing pulverization, the top parts of WTC1&2 should only have been able to ‘pulverize’ *AT MOST* the same number of floors beneath the impact zones. Consider also:

The floors on the Twin Towers weren’t just supported by exterior walls. In fact, the building was so over-engineered (for safety’s sake) that the floors could be held aloft without any support from the exterior walls. You see, in the centers of both towers, there were two large rectangular ‘core structures’ in which the elevators ran up and down. Where these rectangular cores were closest, is where the elevator doors were found on each floor. Inside the cores, there was no substantial fuel source whatsoever, and the building was designed to prevent any kind of ‘chimney effect’ during a fire. The structures of each of these cores (two per building), together had 47 enormous steel columns that were three feet wide at the base, were themselves held together with a latticework of structural steel trusses; all of which were encased in thick concrete, so were never exposed to much flame. This means, even if there was a so-called pancake effect of progressive collapse (like you’ve described), these core structures should have been left standing, like a spindle on a juke-box record player (with pancaked floors around its base). Instead, we have no pancaked floors, no core ‘spindle’ left standing whatsoever, and all the concrete is pulverized, while above 95% of the iron didn’t need to get cut further to size, so they could fit on trucks to get hauled out of there ASAFP (how convenient, indeed!).

Now think about your own life experience: When was the last time you had a cast iron pot melt on your stove? What about a steel pot or an aluminum pot? Ever have one completely melt and flow like it’s made out of wax? What about in the camp fire, or your fire place. Ever get a piece of iron red hot? How soft was it really? Have you ever seen iron or steel worked,? What it takes to heat it up (always lots of airflow, if not actually pressurized oxygen), and how much hammering it takes to shape and form it? The fact is, even when iron/steel is hot, even red-hot, it is still pretty tuff stuff. It doesn’t flow like lava, except with some EXTREME heat, which is unexplained by the official 9/11 CT.

The ‘truss failure theory’ is the reason why so many architects and engineers were first brought to the cause of 9/11 TRUTH. They know that’s BS because there was no proof of that. If there was truss failure, that would have pulled-in the exterior walls, and you would have seen buckling of the exterior walls prior to collapse. INSTEAD, we saw the Twin Towers *DESTROY THEMSELVES FROM THE TOP-DOWN*. Ask yourself, if the top is getting pulverized while showering down on the remaining floors below; how is it crushing anything? Pulverized material cannot pulverize anything, without tremendous speed (like in so-called sand blasting); but there is no explanation for how this could have happened. Just look at the film, there is no pancaking going on.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8W-t57xnZg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW81Cd7nNH8

guywholikesboth,

What do you think, after watching the two above videos and taking the time to read what I wrote in response to your post. What do you think happened there? Do you still think ‘pancaking’ was going on, if so, can you point me to a single picture showing those floors pancaked on top of each other?

Better yet, can you show me a picture of what happened to the interior of WTC building #6? This is an EXTREMELY STRANGE SIGHT, because not only are there no pancaked floors, the exterior walls remain standing, and we can see the interior MISSING! It is as if the interior of WTC6 was completely scooped-out or likely VAPORIZED, even though no airplane hit it, and we can find very little debris from the Twin Towers inside the empty hull of WTC6. I’ve seen numerous photos from inside the remains of this facility, and two extremely odd things are plainly visible. First is that unlike a normal blast area, which has a central area from which things are thrown upward and outward; a look inside WTC6 reveals everything hanging downward. For this reason, the guy narrating in this (following) youtube video (hyperlinked below), is surmising that a ‘Directed Energy Weapon’ (DEW) of some kind is the cause for the apparent disintegration of this interior of WTC6. (I don’t subscribe to this theory, but the pictures are mind-boggling, and official, and unexplained.)

The second strange thing I noticed (in the following youtube vid) clearly indicates tremendous HEAT AND CORROSION, which is visible from the structural steel that is twisted and bent, but never buckled or crimped, while also being very heavily corroded; everything else is GONE. This is evidence of very large amounts of THERMATE with added incendiaries that literally sent that missing material skyward, as super-heated dust-clouds, the pyroclastic flow or ‘heavy slurry cloud’ that the MIT guy above described. Look at this YOUTUBE video, but don’t necessarily pay attention to what that guy is saying. Look at the photos, which constitute photographic EVIDENCE, whereas keep his words in context, as they are only INTERPRETATION (I think confusing composite THERMATE charges for a DEW). The youtube video is called “911: The Inside of WTC6 was Vaporized” and it is located here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PaWYGp_ygU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PaWYGp_ygU) Please take special note of the nicely twisted, heavilly corroded iron I-Beam, just to the left of the guy wearing the "US Customs" jacket. You can only twist that steel with extreme heat, but a blast furnace won't rust the surface that way; so it's indicative of 'chemical corrosion' and extreme heat BOTH, as in THERMATE composite charges (including probably some kind of permanganate-based rocket fuel as cutting charges, plus extra oxidizer to literally vaporize all of that interior of WTC6).


What do you think?

If you’re smart enough to think this warrants more questions and better answers than we’ve been getting; you could be a ‘Good American’ if you vote accordingly, and especially if you volunteer with a political action/campaign to get this done.

[pole_smoker]

Even hip hop and rap artists want to know the truth about what really happened on that day.

http://www.911truth.org/hip-hop-truth-leaders-resources/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u3JSEqNtlg

I do not agree with what the hip hop artist in the video says about the book of Revelations. That book or writing in the New Testament in the Bible is not about the end of the world but about the end of the Ancient Roman empire, and it was written in a code hundreds of years ago by John of Patmos who was in exile since he was Christian, and the Ancient Roman empire did not like Christians.

[BiBedBud]

While participating in this thread, I explained my POV and my opinion of what happened that day; stating categorically what I knew to have happened that day.

However, now that I've gone through some YOUTUBES, I want to say that my opinion has changed somewhat. The evidence provided by 'Pilots for 9/11 Truth' has modified my opinion of the likely scenario. In particular, that such a flight was 'un-flyable', i.e. the planes that went into the WTC buildings flew "outside of their flight envelope" that they were technically capable of. In other words, the planes flew in a manner unlike any other plane of the type has ever been able to.

I suppose, I'll post those vids. For now, I just wanted to make sure the thread was still alive. (I've found out the hard way, if a thread goes stale, it gets locked.)

[pole_smoker]

I'm not sure if it was, or was not?

[pole_smoker]

Do you think it was an inside job or not?

[jem_is_bi]

No. The conspiracy theories are too unlikely compared to the reality of what happened. I hope we don't go through anything like it again. But, we probably will.

[themrdarcy]

Actually, I saw footage from Pentagon surveillance cams that did indeed show the plane hitting the building. War games, as you call them, don't have live ammunition btw.