Bisexuality doesn't exist

[kittles555]

Caught your attention didn't I?

We've all heard the stereotypes. Bisexuals are just confused. They are really gay and just can't accept it. The label bisexual is just a phase, the transition between straight and gay. And (my fav) bisexuals are just greedy - they wanna have sex with everyone.

I have a couple questions for you all. First, what stereotypes have you come up against?

Do you feel accepted for who you are?

Do you find that your gay friends have a harder time understanding your sexuality more than your straight friends?

My answers, well, I told you the stereotypes. I don't always feel accepted. And my gay friends seem to have more of a problem with my sexuality then the my straight friends. My ex girlfriend used to tease me all the time, that I was really gay but couldn't accept it. Telling me to choose a side, stop being a fence sitter, yada yada.

[mike9753]

Hi kittle:
I have not told anyone that I am bi, so I have not had to deal with the reactions that people often give you. But I have a few comments:

1. Human beings don't often deal well with ambiguity. We often demand straight-forward answers. A person who is bisexual is really saying that his/her life choices maybe ambiguous - that person could have an intimate relationship with either a man or a woman.

Or if they are in a committed relationship with somone of either sex, they are declaring that in the future, they may be open to the other sex, if the right person comes along. If the relationship is truely a permanent one (if that can be said to be true now-a-days) then it does not matter what they are - they are 100% committed to a life partner - their orientation is not relevant.

2. I like to think of it this way. I like people. I believe in being monogomous. I am in a committed relationship now with my wife of 12 years. I have no intention of going outside that relationship to be with a man or another woman.

I like to think that if I became widowed or divorced, which is unlikely, I would be open to the right person - be they male or female. I would date both sexes, depending on the person - and to me this is the key point. I wouldn't date a man just because he was a man and I wanted to have M2M sex. I would date a person who I felt attracted to because of their intelligence, their genuineness, their honesty, their sense of humor, their philosophy of living, and yes, initially I would date them because they were attractive.

3. If I were single again, I would want to be thought of as not a heterosexual, a homosexual or a bisexual - but as a person who is attracted to and values people for who they are. Society wants us to label each other as gay, str8, bi, because even tho they don't like people who are gays or bi, it's better than the person having no label. Having a label solves the ambiguity dilema.

Reactions? Am I full of sh*t? What do you think??

Mike

[chillddreamer]

I have not told a lot people that I am bicurious. My boyfriend or what ever you want to call him, i have told him. Mu cousin who I know has experimented I have told and a close friend. Now i have not ran into any judgement that has been bad. My close friend has tryed to warn me that it tear up my relationship with with my boy friend. The way I feel about is if you are open and honest and not lie then it is no big deal. Any way started to babble. Iam very careful who i have told that to i guarded it cause I don't want my family to disown me and I know they will they will cut all ties to me. In the end the one you have to deal with is your self and I kinow that as well. So I guess if you are comfortable then it doesn't matter what other people think. :cool:

[big and small]

kittle555
I'm not gay. I'm a happy bi-sexual. I'm not curious. I'm open to choose.

You know nothing about bisexuality. If you want to learn more about this lifestyle then pay attention to Mike9753. He said it the way it is. Thanks Mike I couldn't have said it better...... Big and small

[julie]

kittle555
I'm not gay. I'm a happy bi-sexual. I'm not curious. I'm open to choose.

You know nothing about bisexuality. If you want to learn more about this lifestyle then pay attention to Mike9753. He said it the way it is. Thanks Mike I couldn't have said it better...... Big and small




Ouch, isn't this a bit brutal? If I had got this response to a thread i'd posted I think I would be justified in feeling intimidated!

'you know nothing!... if you want to learn more....pay attention to...I couldn't have said it better..'

With respect Big and small as you and Mike are middle aged men and Kittles is a 22year old woman! Maybe it is worth contemplating that you are likely to have very different perceptions on what being bisexual means to you?

Kittles has posted this thread, presumably, to hear some of those different perspectives, I hope she gets the constructive feedback that is usual to expect on the forums on this site and that this kind of dogmatic arrogance is a one off!

Please note these comments have no reference to Mike9753s post, or person, they serve only to flag up the points raised by Big and small in the above quote.

Julie
:three: :flag3:

[blitz120]

We've all heard the stereotypes. Bisexuals are just confused. They are really gay and just can't accept it. The label bisexual is just a phase, the transition between straight and gay. And (my fav) bisexuals are just greedy - they wanna have sex with everyone. -- kittles555
My view and response to such comments (from either tip of the spectrum) is that they are simply degenerate bisexuals. :tong:

-- blitz120

[Whenimcrazy]

I find that the gay people that I have met are a lot less understanding about being bisexual than strait people. The last person I dated was a lesbian and her friend didn't trust me because I was bi, because of this we eventually broke up. every strait person I knew supported me and my decision to be with a lesbian.

[Brian]

I should probably just stay a hundred feet away from this thread considering how charged it seems to have gotten in such a hurry (my spidey-sense is going off, warning me of DANGER!), but I can't help myself, lol...
kittle555
I'm not gay. I'm a happy bi-sexual. I'm not curious. I'm open to choose.

You know nothing about bisexuality. If you want to learn more about this lifestyle then pay attention to Mike9753. He said it the way it is. Thanks Mike I couldn't have said it better...... Big and small big_and_small,
Unless I am misreading your post, and/or Kittle's, I think you misunderstood what Kittle said. I don't think Kittle was stereotyping bisexuality, she was repeating the sterotyping she has heard from others, and asking for comments and to hear of similar experiences.

- Drew :paw:

[codybear3]

....and maybe bisexuality doesn't exist. Back when I didn't know that a word like "bisexual" existed, I knew from early in my life that I was attracted to both sexes. As I grew into adulthood, I began to get familiar with how I felt. The str8 community referred to me as a "fag" and the gay community see me as being "in the closet"...."Bisexual" is a word, a label to identify people who prefer both sexes. I have told a good number of people including family members and do not get any grief from anyone so I guess I'm okay. In the end, if a label (unwanted or not) is attached, I know that I will always be "ME"..... :2cents:

[bigregory]

I m not sure how to respond..
Im BI
Love sex
Not a slut
Well not to much of a slut
oh yes the post was bi does not exist..
SURE DOES
:flag2: :bibounce: :2cents: :flag1: :female: :male:

[garik]

I think there are two main stereotypes: the first very familiar one is that we're 'confused', 'really gay' or 'really straight" etc etc. I suppose there may well be people who are really gay or straight and kid themselves into thinking they're something else, but I've never met any who called themselves bisexual.

The second big stereotype I've come across is that bisexuals need both men and women to feel fulfilled. I've known girls (though no men) say they wouldn't want to be with a bisexual because they couldn't give them all they wanted. I see it, like Mike, as liking people. I can conceive of being in an open realtionship, but I'm basically monogamous. Similarly, I have straight male friends who like both big-breasted and small-breasted girls, or both blondes and brunettes, or both tall girls and short girls, or native girls and foreign girls. None of them seem unable to make do with only one of the pair.

Here's my question though: how many bisexuals (among you or that you know) really can't make do? How many need sex with both men and women to feel fulfilled?

[mike9753]

Here's my question though: how many bisexuals (among you or that you know) really can't make do? How many need sex with both men and women to feel fulfilled?[/QUOTE]

I'll go you one better. How many people think they need sex to feel fulfilled? If you are in a wonderful relationship with a person and this person has a terrible accident and cannot be sexual, but you both love each other very deeply, can you be fulfilled? IS sexual activity what makes us, as humans - FULFILLED? I would hope no one ever has to do without sex, but I don't believe we are only WALKING sex glands (How's that for a visual image??) We are thinking, feeling creatures as well as creatures who love sex.

[mike9753]

Ouch, isn't this a bit brutal? If I had got this response to a thread i'd posted I think I would be justified in feeling intimidated!

'you know nothing!... if you want to learn more....pay attention to...I couldn't have said it better..'

With respect Big and small as you and Mike are middle aged men and Kittles is a 22year old woman! Maybe it is worth contemplating that you are likely to have very different perceptions on what being bisexual means to you?

Kittles has posted this thread, presumably, to hear some of those different perspectives, I hope she gets the constructive feedback that is usual to expect on the forums on this site and that this kind of dogmatic arrogance is a one off!

Please note these comments have no reference to Mike9753s post, or person, they serve only to flag up the points raised by Big and small in the above quote.

Julie
:three: :flag3:

Julie:
I undersdtand you are not referencing my post, but nonetheless you make a good point. My perspective is one of a male who is "over the hump" but not unable to hump.
Mike

[big and small]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on.
again to kittles I apolgize to you .

[mike9753]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on.
again to kittles I apolgize to you .


WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!! Dont' do that. These forums are great because we express ourselves openly. I for one am happy to get feedback if I come on too strong. But I don't keep my thoughts to myself and you shouldn't either. I try to react appropriately to feedback. I am also a very strong believer in healthy conflict. I think it makes us stronger. Conflcit for the sake of conflict can be destructive. But airing differences helps us all to refine our thoughts and attitudes. I think "differences" of any sort should be embraced and valued - not used to scare off others. I don't know but I would doubt that was Julie's intent. I don't want to speak for her, but I did want to encourage you to stay in the discussion.

[sophisticated]

well i am sorry to say that i totally agree with those of u who find it more difficult to be fully accepted within the gay community. It is sad i think, that people who themselves has had do fight for years to get accepted, doesnt accept us. I have had that problem with every lesbian girlfriend, and i am tired of it. Dont want to be regarded as semi lesbian.....or lesbian light anymore. But the hard thing i think, is that so few of us are willing to be open about our sexuel orientation. As long as it is so hard for us to be accepted.....i dont think it is a private matter. Maybe we have to walk that hard road too, like the gays had too. And perhaps that is one of the things they dont like about us......that we are surfing the waves.......using the rights they have fought so hard and long fore...........just to suddenly not having to be seen because we live in a man /woman relationship. I might be wrong here....just sharing my immidiate thought. But as an open bi for years.....i am surprised how easy it has been to be accepted as bi among my straight friends and family.

[Brian]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on.
again to kittles I apolgize to you . I agree with what Mike said... DO NOT keep your thoughts to yourself big&small! I think an underlieing theme of bisexuality is liberterianism and diversity, not just in sexual orientation, but in ideas too. Your thoughts are ALWAYS welcome here big&small!

- Drew :paw:

[julie]

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!! Dont' do that. These forums are great because we express ourselves openly. I for one am happy to get feedback if I come on too strong. But I don't keep my thoughts to myself and you shouldn't either. I try to react appropriately to feedback. I am also a very strong believer in healthy conflict. I think it makes us stronger. Conflcit for the sake of conflict can be destructive. But airing differences helps us all to refine our thoughts and attitudes. I think "differences" of any sort should be embraced and valued - not used to scare off others. I don't know but I would doubt that was Julie's intent. I don't want to speak for her, but I did want to encourage you to stay in the discussion.



I agree!

One of my 'mantras' to my children, but also to myself, is:-

'all equal, all different'

When I posted the above feedback to Big and small my intention was to challenge the underlying aggression of the points raised. To have noticed but not commented would have served only to condone this attitude as somehow acceptable. I also wanted to highlight how the age and gender differences between Big, Mike and Kittles may well lead to different persectives on how they experience bisexuality.

It certainly wasn't my intention to invalidate anyones experiencing. Far from it, I know I have as much to learn from anything Big may choose to post on here as I have from anyone else. One thing we seem to agree on Big is how much we appreciate Mikes opinions ;)

I really hope you are going to carry on posting on here Big, these posts are always so diverse I love just being a part of them, and have learned loads.

Julie :bigrin:

[curiousmom1965]

Hi Kittles. You make a good point. I myself am bicurious, very few people know this of me. Some of my straight friends give me hell over it, they dont really understand how I can be attracted to both men and women. My bi friends are more understanding and helpful, easy to talk to about things. My gay friends, well no coment there. I tend to agree with Mikes point, a person who is attracted to other people. For me it is who the person is, not just because they are male of female. From what I have seen, its the closed minded people who really dont understand. I have not told my husband or my family because of that reason. I know how they think and what thier views are. Anyway, I dont think it matters if a person is gay or bi or straight, its who they are as a person that makes them beautiful. :) :female: :2cents:

[EvilDoctor]

Here's my question though: how many bisexuals (among you or that you know) really can't make do? How many need sex with both men and women to feel fulfilled?

I wouldn't say that I need sex with both men and woman but I certainly enjoy it. We are a swinging couple and having sex other people has served as a positive, enjoyable, and erotic experience that we can share together and strengthens our relationship. I certainly get pleasure out of watching her be pleasured by another man or woman and I certainly enjoy watching her arrousal at watching me with another man or woman.

I often like to say that I'm not sexually monogomous but I'm emotionally monogomous.

David :bibounce: :three:

[BiBiologist]

I had to get in on this one. It is a wonderful discussion! I especially liked Kittles great beginning, and posts by Mike and Julie. I wish I could get the general public to read these thoughtful threads. Sadly, people like politicians who say homosexuality or bisexuality "just don't make sense" do not understand biology and evolution, as most people don't. Homosexuality and bisexuality are forms of genetic diversity, and without genetic diversity, evolution would not take place, and we would not have the wide, various and beautiful forms of life that we have on earth. Any trait that is not lethal, and does not prevent reproduction is retained. Consistently, about 10% of the population is left handed. It doesn't necessarily make sense, or no sense, and certainly when a small child picks up a crayon and starts to scribble left handed, he is not trying to be rebellious or make a statement. It is just what is natural to him. And let's not forget those who are ambidextrous! Can they just not make up their minds whether they want to be right or left handed? No, this is natural, and may even be a great advantage. It is indicative that there are multiple genes at work in determining handedness, and sexuality, and other traits we don't understand, or possibly these traits are determined by a complex process during fetal development. In either case, there can be varying degrees and forms, we don't get to choose our traits, and they may become an advantage in the future evolution of the species. Bisexuality exists.

[WolffeWoman42]

Hi everyone,

Excellent discussion, I hope you don’t mind if I put in my two cents. : )

Bisexuality does exist. Yes, I’ve seen and heard discrimination of this from gay and straight. Why? I think the answer is simple if you look from different perspectives.

A heterosexual can’t imagine how someone can have sex or an intimate connection with a person of the same sex.

A homosexual can’t imagine how someone can have sex or an intimate connection with a person of the opposite sex.

A bisexual can’t imagine why there should be such a problem! Bisexuality is as normal for us as hetero or homo is to others.

In reference to messages by garik and Mike9753 regarding fulfillment. Sex is wonderful, great, I love it, as a writer of erotica – I love thinking and writing about it. However, if I can’t have a decent conversation with a person after we’ve been intimate then the act is empty and hollow. If a relationship is fantastic but never becomes intimate – I’d be just as happy and fulfilled.

Dawn

[mike9753]

I had to get in on this one. It is a wonderful discussion! I especially liked Kittles great beginning, and posts by Mike and Julie. I wish I could get the general public to read these thoughtful threads. Sadly, people like politicians who say homosexuality or bisexuality "just don't make sense" do not understand biology and evolution, as most people don't. Homosexuality and bisexuality are forms of genetic diversity, and without genetic diversity, evolution would not take place, and we would not have the wide, various and beautiful forms of life that we have on earth. Any trait that is not lethal, and does not prevent reproduction is retained. Consistently, about 10% of the population is left handed. It doesn't necessarily make sense, or no sense, and certainly when a small child picks up a crayon and starts to scribble left handed, he is not trying to be rebellious or make a statement. It is just what is natural to him. And let's not forget those who are ambidextrous! Can they just not make up their minds whether they want to be right or left handed? No, this is natural, and may even be a great advantage. It is indicative that there are multiple genes at work in determining handedness, and sexuality, and other traits we don't understand, or possibly these traits are determined by a complex process during fetal development. In either case, there can be varying degrees and forms, we don't get to choose our traits, and they may become an advantage in the future evolution of the species. Bisexuality exists.


Hi BiBiologist:
I have wondered about this issue in the context of how we as a species are evolving. In so many parts of the world we are competing for resources - people walk miles in Africa for water - even dirty water! Across the world we are competing for oil - it has reached $60 per BBL! We no longer use wood as a resource as we once did - plastic has replaced it in many applications because wood as a resource, altho renewable, is not as easily renewable as it is to make an environmentally pollutant substance like plastic - and wood requires land - another resource we compete to use. Traffic is becoming an enormous problem in and around cities all over the world - cars take up space - space is valuabe - cars pollute air - another essential resource. Natural disasters are affecting more people than in previous decades because we are building our homes on land that is subject to land slides, tsunamis and the ravages of hurricanes and other severe weather patterns.

I think we as a species as confronted daily with this sort of issue. How do we adapt? If the competition is due to our increasing numbers on the planet, then a response is to cut down our numbers. How do we do that? Don't we do that by engaging in war, contributing to the spread of disease (by not maintaining sanitation standards) and pestilance and by procreating less? Therefore, could homosexuality, bisexuality and any other sexuality other than heterosexuality be the way mankind saves itself from overpopulation? And where does bisexuality fit into this complex response to a population crisis? I am not really sure, except that on average, a bisexual person may procreate less than a heterosexual. And a gay person less still. Who knows what other sexualities (I am not defining other sexualities - only leaving room for them in this discussion, because I am not arrogrant enough to believe that I have thought of everything) do in terms of procreation?

Now I am not suggesting that we are making conscious choices to be gay or bi. I think it's not a choice. I believe our sexual orientation is biologically programmed into us. But I can't help but wonder if we, as a species are adapting to living on a world that is struggleing to support our growing numbers. (Pease note that before you respond, I am making no judgements as to the goodness of any orientation. We are what we are and no matter what we are, in my opinion we deserve the respect and acceptance of our fellow humans on this globe we call earth).:bibounce:

So, let me ask, is this a provocative hypothesis or what??? :) :rolleyes: I can't wait to hear the reponse to this. Come one, come all - tell me what you think!!! ;)

[Nancyboy]

FYI: the anthropological record shows that in many societies, same-sex behaviour existed alongside opposite behaviour. It would be a mistake, however, to project the term bisexual onto these societies since their members don't usually define themselves in terms of who they have sex with in the same way that many in the Western world do.

If anyone is interested, I can dig up more concrete examples. It's late at night now and by brain is too fuzzy to do anything more than throw this in there.

[mobicpl69]

Straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual or whatever you want to call it, is about your personal choice. It is not something that is forced on you when you are conceived. And this no way we would let the general population decide what we are going to be. Yes we are bisexual or trisexual, we are also straight at times and gay at times. It is all about what 'we' want. As far as stereotypes, or what our gay friends think, well....they don't have to live with us, we do. And it is albout how we feel about ourselves.

This topic is about an issue, one that ask for opinions. And they are just that, the emotional feelings of others. Of which has absolutely no bearing on what we choice. Just as long as we are all.....happy :bipride: :bibounce:

[mike9753]

Straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual or whatever you want to call it, is about your personal choice. It is not something that is forced on you when you are conceived. And this no way we would let the general population decide what we are going to be. Yes we are bisexual or trisexual, we are also straight at times and gay at times. It is all about what 'we' want. As far as stereotypes, or what our gay friends think, well....they don't have to live with us, we do. And it is albout how we feel about ourselves.

This topic is about an issue, one that ask for opinions. And they are just that, the emotional feelings of others. Of which has absolutely no bearing on what we choice. Just as long as we are all.....happy :bipride: :bibounce:

I don't know mobicpl69 I am firmly convinved that sexual orientation is genetically determined. Howver, that is not to say that a person can't decide to try something else (another sex) and then like it. I do believe that many people have experienced that - but I do believe that most of us have an orientation toward one sex or the other and when we find a relationship with a person of that sexual orientation who meets all or most of our other needs for psychological intimacy, we feel fulfilled and truely loved.

I think that is different from the expression of lust with a partner who is equally into the sexual exchange.

I would also like to challenge your statement, "Straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual or whatever you want to call it, is about your personal choice. It is not something that is forced on you when you are conceived. " Do you really think this is forced on you, or is it really just who you are. It's not like we are sitting there in teh womb and we have a menu in front of us that says, "Chose a sex". Then we chose a sexual orientation, but when we emerge from the womb we are not given that choice. Another orientation is forced on us. I don't think it happens that way. In today's world, what perosn in their right mind would want to be anything else but heterosexual. Gays and Bisexuals have to put up with so much prejudice - from everyone. They are invalidated by a society which is intolerant of differences. Most of our society will not allow them to marry. Their rights are always in question. So if you had a choice, with no partner there, with only a little knowledge about how hard it is to be anything but str8, who would want to be gay?

Now if you are gay, or bi, then you need to deal with the predjudice and intolerance as best as you can and look for resources like this website and support groups to help you stay sane and happy. You need to come to grips with who you are adn be proud of your identity. :bipride: But it is very difficult.:(

Any other opinions???

Mike

[Bum_Ditty]

Ok, time for me to inject my own brain chemicals into this discussion...
I think that, for all intents and purposes, bisexuality does exist. It seems plain to me that where we get the confusion that causes some to deny its existence comes from the fact that there is more than one kind of bisexuality.

What I have to say about this may turn out to be controversial, or may not; I really am not sure where current theory draws the lines.

Over the years, I have heard, overheard, and otherwise experienced two main categories of explanation as to how one became bisexual/gay/lesbian/ trans- gendered/what have you. They are:

1. "I was turned. I had no choice." (or, less frequently, "It was my choice. I chose to allow myself to have sex with a same-sex partner"/both sexes") I tend to think of this --somewhat facetiously, yes, but still -- as the "Vampiric Explanation," since it seems to parallel the Pop SF/Fantasy stereotype of vampiric species propagation. Basically, it suggests that the subject is either made to undergo, or chooses to undergo, some process by which homosexuality/bisexuality is introduced into their physical and spiritual being, after which point the subject no longer has any choice in the matter, and has "lost the daylight," to quote Vamp cliche'.

2. "I was born this way. I have, and had, no choice." While this is by far the more reasonable explanation, I still chafe under it. I suppose I would like to think that I exercised/exercise some greater degree of control over the situation, despite the evidence of my own senses and experiences.

Now for the controversial part: I believe that, in some cases, #1 could actually be true, especially in the despicable instances of a partner convincing his or her partner that they are bisexual merely for the sake of seeing them in a bisexual set-up. I would call that condition "Faux Bisexuality" (or invent your own word if you want). I have heard of many cases of this sort, and seen some of my own friends involved in such scenarios.

I have also encountered some people who have initially said that they were "becoming gay/lesbian", then changed their minds and said that they were bisexual, and then switched back to gay/lesbian when they found a regular partner. This, IMHO, is most likely caused by the force of peer and partner pressure to follow the prescribed sequence of development, and probably the main source of confusion on the matter.

Note that both of the above imply that the sexuality was induced rather than genetic. Since gay/lesbian/bi sexuality are currently thought of as being genetic, it would seem obvious that the induced states are artificial and probably not permanent.

As for the other kind of bisexuality, IMHO there persons (like myself) who desire both sexes to greater or lesser degrees, and have done so since sexual awakening and probably (in more subtle guise) even before that time. These individuals are what I would term "True" or "Natural" bisexuals, since the attraction comes not from external inspiration but from internal "wiring," so to speak.

Of course, whether or not the above is at all valid would depend upon whethe ror not the induction of bisexuality could be quantified and measured. I have NO idea how to do that...

--Bum_Ditty

[garik]

Here's my question though: how many bisexuals (among you or that you know) really can't make do? How many need sex with both men and women to feel fulfilled?

I'll go you one better. How many people think they need sex to feel fulfilled? If you are in a wonderful relationship with a person and this person has a terrible accident and cannot be sexual, but you both love each other very deeply, can you be fulfilled? IS sexual activity what makes us, as humans - FULFILLED? I would hope no one ever has to do without sex, but I don't believe we are only WALKING sex glands (How's that for a visual image??) We are thinking, feeling creatures as well as creatures who love sex.[/QUOTE]

Good point. I'm not sure though. I've never been in a relationship like that, so I'm not going to guess...

[DÆMØN]

Wow, I'm impressed, extremely impressed, guess y'all gots me as a member for good :P *wink* ;) , anyhoo What I'd like to bring up but at the same time I'm feeling a tad reluctant is the religious aspects that influence our choices just as much as anything else. Perhaps a little primer if youre interested in what I mean just hit http://www.sky.org/data/aint/f01.htm AIN'T NOBODY'S BUSINESS IF YOU DO: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Country by Peter McWilliams. This is an online book. Hopefully I have the right link there but we could use it as a stepping stone to generate more discussion.

*note to moderators: if you feel this post is off topic yer most welcome to move it to an appropriate thread/forum. Thanks in advance.

As for myself: Bisexuality exists, it may be learned behaviour, it may be geneticly ingrained from conception, or what ever other possible explanation for our concious/unconcious choices about the particular flavour of lifestyle one chooses. I find both men and women equally attractive and compelling with a little leaning more towards womenfolk, but thats me. I'm Bi and Proud. You should be to. It exists. :)

[mike9753]

As for myself: Bisexuality exists, it may be learned behaviour, it may be geneticly ingrained from conception, or what ever other possible explanation for our concious/unconcious choices about the particular flavour of lifestyle one chooses. I find both men and women equally attractive and compelling with a little leaning more towards womenfolk, but thats me. I'm Bi and Proud. You should be to. It exists. :)

You know I guess what actually matters is how we put our bisexuality into practice. Does it cause us undue anxiety or does it fulfill us in ways we cannot experience otherwise? I think for some, it's like a drug - a destructive street drug - the immediate high is incredible - but the resulting addiction is horribly destructive and ruins our lives. BUT for others, it is a lifestyle that is constructive and produces joy and fulfillment and allows us to be who we really are.

Could that be the difference between people who try to be bisexual but are not and those of us who truely are bisexual and have discovered how to live with that as a driving force in our lives along with the other critical factors - respect and tolerence for others, charity towards our fellow man/woman, etc?

Someone save me before I blather on too much. Any other opinions?

[BiBiologist]

Wow! You go on vacation and look what happens. First, Mike, I want to say a little more about evolution. It is confusing to a lot of people. Traits do not show up in the gene pool in response to an environmental stress. The traits are already there, due to random mutations. A trait is "selected" when the environment changes, or a species moves into a new environment. The individuals that do not have the advantageous trait tend to die off, while the individuals with the trait are "selected"--they survive because they are better adapted to the new or changed situation. So, while people have theorized that homosexuality has arisen due to population pressure, that is probably not the way it would work. For any species, individuals who are either very fertile or very good parents (raising few young to reproductive age) will likely always be selected. The difference for human beings is that we do have the ability to make choices and use our brains. We can use our brains to appropriately control our population, hopefully using birth control methods chosen by individuals to control family size rather than through wars or ethnic cleansing.

But we also have societal morays and pressures. Our society generally expects marriage and children. Way back when, even the young people themselves didn't get to choose who they were going to marry, let alone whether they would marry or not. Even now it is still hard to decide whether to follow or fight our natural tendencies. Physical traits make things pretty obvious, like skin color. Your choices about that are limited, although there are some traits you can artificially change, like your hair or eye color. With behavioral traits, your natural "colors" are on the inside. We can choose to keep them hidden, once we start to understand them, but that takes a lot of effort and energy, and may eventually take an emotional toll on a person. It's kind of like, in a much more extreme example, trying to deny yourself food or water. A person with an inherited tendency toward obesity can choose to exercise and control their diet and mostly stay slim. But there will probably be times in their life when they will have difficulty keeping their weight under control.

So yes, we do have choices. Choosing to live an openly gay or bisexual lifestyle may bring on ridicule, physical abuse, and ostricism from the mainstream, but you may be so happy with your partner(s) that you endure the indignities. If you choose to be in a heterosexual lifestyle, if you enjoy main-stream experiences and being considered "normal", you may never be really happy in your relationship with your spouse. I guess I don't feel like that's much of a choice. I can see where someone who is basically heterosexual might be pressured by a spouse or friend to have a homosexual experience, or just decide to take a walk on the wild side. Or there could be other reasons, say fame or monetary gain--take Anne Hech, for instance. Bum-Ditty and others made a good point about choices in the moment v. long-term choices. But I think people are much more likely to be pushed by the majority into the expected lifestyle. My own long-term choice has been monogamy (23 years of marriage), and my life has been good. However, it has been very painful to have been in love and never to have had a relationship with a woman. I truly do wish I could be deliriously happy with my husband and not be drawn in two directions, but that is not within the realm of choices. Maybe someday people will evolve enough to accept diversity.

[Thai7mysticshe]

Caught your attention didn't I?

We've all heard the stereotypes. Bisexuals are just confused. They are really gay and just can't accept it. The label bisexual is just a phase, the transition between straight and gay. And (my fav) bisexuals are just greedy - they wanna have sex with everyone.

I have a couple questions for you all. First, what stereotypes have you come up against?

Do you feel accepted for who you are?

Do you find that your gay friends have a harder time understanding your sexuality more than your straight friends?

My answers, well, I told you the stereotypes. I don't always feel accepted. And my gay friends seem to have more of a problem with my sexuality then the my straight friends. My ex girlfriend used to tease me all the time, that I was really gay but couldn't accept it. Telling me to choose a side, stop being a fence sitter, yada yada.
I've gotten all the stereotypes you named basicly & most of the time I accept who am cuz of my bisexuality & no, My straight friends have a hard time coming to terms with my sexuality & YEs, you most definately got my attention. :flag4:

[wienie69]

Mike did say it best. I, too, like people. I don't see a gender, I see a person. I think that we are lucky, despite the stereotypes and hostility, that we are open to chose a partner for who they are not what they are.
Thanks for listening.

W

[julie]

Mike did say it best. I, too, like people. I don't see a gender, I see a person. I think that we are lucky, despite the stereotypes and hostility, that we are open to chose a partner for who they are not what they are.
Thanks for listening.

W


Sums it all up for me :bigrin: thanks for putting it so concisely Wienie69

love julie x

[twosides]

You know I guess what actually matters is how we put our bisexuality into practice. Does it cause us undue anxiety or does it fulfill us in ways we cannot experience otherwise?

For me it's been an awakening of sorts. Long time in coming and I'm not that surprised by where I am at this time. I've made a consious decision in my move toward enjoying the fruits of both sexes, because it helps me understand more of myself and what I'm made of. My path through life has always been about self-discovery. Sometimes I've been off in the brambles, but where I am now seems like the right place. I'm practicing my sexual exercises and enjoying the process of developing my duality.

So, we're all in agreement, right? Bisexuality exists, just in many different shades.

[mike9753]

I am responding to BiBiologist in post #31.

I guess I was not thinking about genetic changes in terms of evolution, but responses to environmental stimuli. Now this may sound peculiar to many, but I believe organisms, mammals in particular behave in similar ways. I know that in labratory conditions, rats, when subjected to overcrowding, begin to display canabalistic behaviors and homosexual behaviors, which up until the overcrowding were non-existant. They have not evolved to this point, but their behavior has changed as a result of this competition for space, food, suitable mates, etc.

I know that even affluent people (who can afford to purchase privacy when they need it) are confronted daily with news about increased vehicular traffic, increased air traffic, crowded commuter trains, buses and highways to and from work. I mentioned before about hunger in Africa - now with Live8, if anyone didn't know before, they know now that people are dying every 3 seconds of hunger in Africa. There are many other examples of information that reaches us via the news media - or that we experience first hand. As an intellectual species who can make choices, and as a species who has an unconscious that frequently modifies our behavior without our conscious decision making, don't you think that all this influence may exert pressures on people's unconscious?

Now this may not be a scientific method of analyzing ths isses, but if you use the standard distribution curve for the population with one end of the continuium being homosexuality and the other being heterosexuality, the heterosexual end would represent 10% to 15% of the population as would the homosexual end. That leaves 70% to 80% in the middle - with leanings either way. Now I know this logic falls apart because in terms of the survival of the species, the bulk of the population has had to be heterosexual in their orientation, so forgive me if I take a statistical and biological license here.

But my point is that as the environmental factors begin to be more and more influential, don't you think that many people, who have never entertained any gay thoughts before, might be more open to relationships with same sex partners - perhaps without any conscious thought of why? ;)

Another point, what is the effect of over crowding on the development of primary relationships? One might think that there would be more elgible candidates to chose from. But I wonder if it is as simple as that. My suspiscion is that with over crowding comes a human tendancy to withdraw into more private space and not to be as social. So in order to develop any relationships, people may tend to gravitate to same sex individuals, because they have that in common - shared genetic sexuality. Out of those friendships may blossom sexual relationships.:crosseye:

Would love to hear what others think about this. I am thinking on my feet here, without any real social science behind me, just my limited view of the world. :upside:

Mike

[BiBiologist]

Thanks for your reply, Mike. You have some good thoughts there. I felt like I was into too much of a diatribe, but all the questions can't be answered in three paragraphs. Yes, there are immediate responses to overcrowding, and as you said, withdrawing is one. I know that sexuality takes a back seat when starvation is a factor--likely because there would be no way to feed the offspring. The responses you suggest, though, are very possible.

I am really an environmental rather than a social biologist, although I dabble. I have spent most of my time on hazardous waste sites only to realize that these are small problems compared to all those caused by overpopulation, and sexuality could certainly be affected by condensed personal space. I do think though, that like handedness, (10% being left handed) ambidexterity is a small percentage, and most of the population is right handed. Bell curves don't have to be perfectly bell-shaped--they can be skewed, and as much as I wish there were a lot of in-betweens like us, I don't think that is so. If you got a bunch of 'em hid somewhere, please send them to me!!

[mike9753]

I tihnk twosides says it best - "Bisexuality exists, just in many different shades".

I have had a discussion with a friend about the differences between gays and people who are bisexual in terms of their application of sexuality. he believes that bisexual men want to have relationships with others (men) vs. gay men will more often settle for anonymous sex. Now I am being very blunt about this, he said it much more eloguently, but that's it in a nutshell.

Now I tihnk probably thre are bisexual men who want both, or some may want just a sexual encounter or some may want a relationship that becomes sexual as the two (or three, or four) people develop their relationship. And I tihnk the same may be true for gay men and gay women.

Any opinions?
Mike


For me it's been an awakening of sorts. Long time in coming and I'm not that surprised by where I am at this time. I've made a consious decision in my move toward enjoying the fruits of both sexes, because it helps me understand more of myself and what I'm made of. My path through life has always been about self-discovery. Sometimes I've been off in the brambles, but where I am now seems like the right place. I'm practicing my sexual exercises and enjoying the process of developing my duality.

So, we're all in agreement, right? Bisexuality exists, just in many different shades.

[CherryBlossom74]

I'd like to say that ONE statement Mike made I think should be altered a bit. The part where he says Human's don't like ambiguity....change it to PERCEIVED ambiguity. I am not ambiguous, I know that I love without care for gender. It is a transposition from the gay and straight communities that care which they pursue. For us that barricade is gone, and to them it appears ambiguous and scary.

As for his later comments about being fulfilled in a relationship, they are I have found dead on. I do not pursue a M2M relationship or even other women now that I am in love and with the love of my life. If it occurs at all is secondary, but I will not turn away from it if I can share the experience with her. She and I are very commited, and very happy together. We watch the same films, feel the same way over politcal and sexual matters...she is my match in every way. We avoid anything that might detract unless we are sure of ourselves in going forward in it. :)

As for no bisexuality as a statement to get attention, there was anothe rforum I post in regularly that had the same thing put up and stated that a university had supposedly proven it was the case with men. It was a survey of gay, straight and bisexual men wtaching gay porn. Now I don't know about you men out there, but just like in straight porn the gay porn can be a bit off-putting as they have such obvious fakers in the bunch...fake orgasm, fake gay (ie straight guys doing what they do for cash) and it can really turn you off. Plus the fact is some of the guys aren't all that appealing to me. Thus the results weren't a surprise. No straight or bisexual men found it arousing but the gays did. Since the porn was gay and not geared to a bisexual male it doesn't surprise me....but the university took it as absolute proof of my bisexuality not being real...sheesh!

[kittles555]

First, I want to thank you all for your comments, and I hope you continue to discuss this topic - I've been enjoying reading your responses. I just wanna clear a few things up - it seems that my comments were taken as literal to what I believe, which is not the case. I do believe bisexuality exists - I am bisexual, and proud and happy to be. The thread title was written purely to get people's attention, and see what you all had to say on the topic.

To BiBiologist - I loved that you mention ambidexterous (sp?) people. I happen to be that too...kinda interesting, makes ya think, huh? :)

Anyway, I do obviously believe it exists. I, like many people have already said, don't look at people and see gender. To me, it's about who they are. A lot of people have a hard time understanding that, because you have to be quite comfortable with your own sexuality, whatever it is (gay, bi, straight, etc). to look at someone, and not see their gender...most people can't do that.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks again for all your wonderful comments. Oh, and I do agree with what everyone was saying before, please don't censor yourself. Say what you think, that's what these forums are all about. I just hope I at least cleared the air of any of the confusion some of you may have had about my initial post.

[freshflesh]

if you think you are bisexual but you do not exist then good for you....lols

bisexual do exist, i am, and i always do exist, i like both, though i like boys most but i couldnt deny my attractions to women, and i always like to make love with them.

i knew i am bisexual since i am 5 years old, first it is really hard for me, to accept my reality coz as what you have said, people like me do not exist, but i soon accepted myself as i knew there are more people like me........

well if you guys doubt of our existence, it is because there are lots of PRETENDERS in these world, and we are often misinterpreted....

there are lots of gays nowadays who pretend to be bisexual, and bisexual even he/she will act straight or not, she/he is not pretending because she had that both attractions to man and woman. hope i could help....

[kittles555]

if you think you are bisexual but you do not exist then good for you....lols

Just to clear things up again, I do believe bisexuality exists, I don't think I'm bisexual, I know I am. I wrote that title simply for the shock value and to get people talking. I don't actually believe it.

[mike9753]

kittles555:
No need to keep on reclarifying - your title has generated great discussion. I have enjoyed playing with the concepts in my head and it has been very helpful for me to clarify my own thoughts and feelings.
If you have any other controversal titles to spark debate, by all means give it a try. Thanks for what you have done. :)


Just to clear things up again, I do believe bisexuality exists, I don't think I'm bisexual, I know I am. I wrote that title simply for the shock value and to get people talking. I don't actually believe it.

[twosides]

I have had a discussion with a friend about the differences between gays and people who are bisexual in terms of their application of sexuality. he believes that bisexual men want to have relationships with others (men) vs. gay men will more often settle for anonymous sex. Now I am being very blunt about this, he said it much more eloguently, but that's it in a nutshell.

Now I tihnk probably thre are bisexual men who want both, or some may want just a sexual encounter or some may want a relationship that becomes sexual as the two (or three, or four) people develop their relationship. And I tihnk the same may be true for gay men and gay women.

Any opinions?
Mike


There's something there that I connect with. But, of course, with just a little tangent of an offshoot. Personally, I want relationships with everyone. Not necesarily sexual, mind you, but if I'm attracted to someone for whatever reason, I want to get to know them. Then, like Mike says, it may turn into something else.

My problem has come in the way that women relate TO ME! I'm not a piece of turd, but then I'm no <enter the name of your favorite male celebrity>. And when I flubbed my way into the close proximity of a woman that I did want to be sexual with, I didn't come across as "smooth" enough, "smart" enough, "self assured" enough, "rich" enough, etc., I would just get the cold shoulder, from one degree to another.

If I was able to get beyond that point, with someone I was less sexually attracted to, it would be ok, but, I knew that it wasn't all that I was looking for. Then, if she wanted to make it a LTR, I got antzy and felt like I had to get out of that relationship. I have always known that I didn't want to be in a marriage. With kids and a mortage, and all that stuff.

So, trying to play the middle field, I would get my emotional friendship needs met with men, mostly straight, but not shying away from my gay friends. And I would try to get the sexual needs met with women. But over the years, because I was avoiding the LTR trap, I just met up with the women that came into my path without me having to try. And I took care of business myself, usually.

Now, as I'm older, and more comfortable in my own skin, I find that I'm attracted to all for both needs. And that makes me smile. :tongue:

[kenny]

I personally think we all have a little bi in us. Some of my friends know of my past discretions (through the grapevine) and none of them have passed judgement or even brought up the subject. If it is what you want and you like it you should explore your sexuality. We dont have a lot of time in our lives and I think most everything should be tried once. You never know, you might like it!!

[Shiraz]

Bisexuality is amazing. We are truly lucky. We can be with any person we wish to be with (if s/he will have us lol). Bisexuality is love without gender. i think the people trying to tell us that bisexuality doesn't exist blah blah are simply..jealous !

[mike9753]

I would agree - Bisexuality does exist. And I would also postulate that if we seperate out the "sexuality" part for a moment, that everyone is interested in having a relationship with another person - even the self-proclaimed hermits of this world. If we could all find good, healthy, respectful people who were available, we would want to have a relationship with them - especially if they were fun to be with, if they made us laugh, if they made us us think, if we felt comfortable being with them without unrealistic expectations, etc.

Having established that, now put back sexuality and gender. If the person that we have determined meets all or most of the above criteria, and if we are open to a sexual relationship with anyone (for me, I am in a committed relationship with a wonderful woman) then there maybe other criteria that each of us needs to apply to determine if this person is a possible sex partner.

Some may say, "NO" to a same sex person, but I think if circumstances were right, in today's world, there is a good possibility that many more people than ever might consider a physically intimate relationship with a same sex partner and then I might characterize them as Bisexual. Just my opinion :2cents:- what do others think?
Mike

[Shiraz]

There is so much prejudice in the world though..racism, sexism, ageism to name but three.. that I don't think human beings generally/averagely have evolved mentally enough yet, to be so enlightened as to ignore gender when choosing a sexual partner or life companion as a lifestyle choice. Who knows about the 22nd Century though ??

[mike9753]

Shiraz:

Your right. We filter our choices based upon our biases and prejudices as well as our preferences based on gender. Not to mention the things that religions do to our choices. Sometimes in a positive way and sometimes in a negative way.

With terrorism, we are developing additional prejudices. AND, we make choices sometimes when we make assumptions as to what the partner we chose may be prejudiced for or against. It ain't easy being a person, is it?

But then again that is the infinite variety of life. I think things would be so deadly boring if we were predictable. I am truely glad there is so much diversity of thought - even if there is so much prejudice that it gets horribly frustrating and causes people to be hurt.

I think we need the diversity of attitudes and beliefs. I am not so arrogrant that I think my way of looking at life and the people around me is the only way to look at the world. It works for me and has for my 50+ years, but it does not work for everyone, and as Voltare is credited as saying something like, I may not agree with everything others say, but I will defend to the death their right to their opinion. (That's my paraphrasing - not a quote).
Mike

[Anozira]

If bisexuality is in fact, as I suspect it to be, not just another sexual orientation but rather a sexuality that undoes sexual orientation as a category, a sexuality that threatens and challenges the easy binarities of heterosexual and homosexual, and even, through its biological and physiological meanings, the gender categories of male and female, then the search for the meaning of the word "bisexual" offers a different kind of lesson. Rather than naming an invisible, undernoticed minority now finding its place in the sun, "bisexual" turns out to be, like bisexuals themselves, everywhere and nowhere. There is, in short, no "really" about it. The question of whether someone was "really" straight or "really" gay misrecognizes the nature of sexuality which, in its most natural state, is fluid, not fixed, a narrative that changes over time rather than a fixed identity, however complex. The erotic discovery of bisexuality is the fact that it reveals sexuality to be a process of growth, transformation, and not a stable and knowable state of being.

Zira

[curious f]

Not much to be said that hasn't already been said so far, apart from I have truly enjoyed reading this thread. It's been enlightening and interesting to read people's opinions and experiences.

[unum60]

Why do we have to wear our sexuality on our sleeve? When I do wear it on my sleeve, then folks seem to want to differentiate -- this group that group. My response to self is -- this is not a group issue, it is an individual issue, in time I have learned some of the delicate nuances that allow me to "fit in" without being a hypocrite to the respresentative group. In other words why does my specific preference for sex have to be on everybodies elses mind, shouldn't it just be on my mind and the minds of those I am having sex with or trying to have sex with? :tongue: unum

[IceLion]

I am at work and so don't have a lot of time to read all of the previous posts. I would, however, love to respond to the original question; which is what stereotypes have I met with being Bi. I have been Bi the entire of my life, starting when I would try and catch an "accidental" glimpse at the guy standing next me in the bathroom. I have several gay friends, and they all adore me and the courage that it takes to come forward with my sexuality. I have run into a lot of gays and straights that have acted as though I was not so much confused, but untrustworthy. Most of them, while not hostile, were less than cordial. As to my straight friends, I can't tell you the number of them that "suddenly" became curious the moment I came out.

I think the reactions you get from those around you is directly proportionate to the TYPE of people you keep close to you. Just my two cents...

:flag3:

-IceLion

[Anozira]

Why do we have to wear our sexuality on our sleeve? When I do wear it on my sleeve, then folks seem to want to differentiate -- this group that group. My response to self is -- this is not a group issue, it is an individual issue, in time I have learned some of the delicate nuances that allow me to "fit in" without being a hypocrite to the respresentative group. In other words why does my specific preference for sex have to be on everybodies elses mind, shouldn't it just be on my mind and the minds of those I am having sex with or trying to have sex with? :tongue: unum

Bravo! I agree completely.

[mike9753]

Quote:
Originally Posted by unum60
Why do we have to wear our sexuality on our sleeve? When I do wear it on my sleeve, then folks seem to want to differentiate -- this group that group. My response to self is -- this is not a group issue, it is an individual issue, in time I have learned some of the delicate nuances that allow me to "fit in" without being a hypocrite to the respresentative group. In other words why does my specific preference for sex have to be on everybodies elses mind, shouldn't it just be on my mind and the minds of those I am having sex with or trying to have sex with? unum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anozira
Bravo! I agree completely.

Mike's :2cents: Response:
OK unum60, I agree with you and I don't. I do believe that stereotypes do much more harm than good. But I also believe that if we (Bi-community) are able to articulate what makes us unique and special, then we are more likely to someday (that's a stretch) be accepted more widely by the rest of the folks out there. While acceptance is not really necessary for me, a decrease in prejudice and the potential for hate crimes, is necessary. Further, if future generations of our children wish to live lives that are less stressed by gender orientation prejudice of any kind, I think we need to at the very least think about this issue and debate it as we are doing in these posts.

I don't think that an individuals orientation is anyone's business, but since we want to live in a society that is populated by heterosexuals, homosexual, trans-sexuals, metra-sexuals, other-sexuals (I made this one up), then it would be in our best interest to give this more thought.

OK, I officially step off my soap box.

Mike

[Anozira]

Quote:
Originally Posted by unum60
Why do we have to wear our sexuality on our sleeve? When I do wear it on my sleeve, then folks seem to want to differentiate -- this group that group. My response to self is -- this is not a group issue, it is an individual issue, in time I have learned some of the delicate nuances that allow me to "fit in" without being a hypocrite to the respresentative group. In other words why does my specific preference for sex have to be on everybodies elses mind, shouldn't it just be on my mind and the minds of those I am having sex with or trying to have sex with? unum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anozira
Bravo! I agree completely.

Mike's :2cents: Response:
OK unum60, I agree with you and I don't. I do believe that stereotypes do much more harm than good. But I also believe that if we (Bi-community) are able to articulate what makes us unique and special, then we are more likely to someday (that's a stretch) be accepted more widely by the rest of the folks out there. While acceptance is not really necessary for me, a decrease in prejudice and the potential for hate crimes, is necessary. Further, if future generations of our children wish to live lives that are less stressed by gender orientation prejudice of any kind, I think we need to at the very least think about this issue and debate it as we are doing in these posts.

I don't think that an individuals orientation is anyone's business, but since we want to live in a society that is populated by heterosexuals, homosexual, trans-sexuals, metra-sexuals, other-sexuals (I made this one up), then it would be in our best interest to give this more thought.

OK, I officially step off my soap box.

Mike

Then again, if we, as a society, ceased flaunting our sexual proclivities, there would be no issue to debate. Case in point: rarely does controversy rage about constipation, or the lack of it. It is a personal matter seldom discussed.

Zira

[mike9753]

Quote: Then again, if we, as a society, ceased flaunting our sexual proclivities, there would be no issue to debate. Case in point: rarely does controversy rage about constipation, or the lack of it. It is a personal matter seldom discussed.

Zira

Yes, absolutely - don't forget athlete's foot, jock itch or crotch rot. Glad you made the point. But seriously, if you put your head in the sand about issues that affect many people and are targets of prejudice that result in harm, does it get any better? I don't believe it does. AS a matter of fact, I think it gets worse and more people, generation after generation are hurt.

Mike

[Anozira]

I am not suggesting putting one's head in the sand, I am suggesting minding one's own business. There is a distinct difference between flaunting and discretion.

[gina42]

kittles555,
forget the people who stereotype and be true to you....
i have gay/lesiban friends who think your eaither gay or straight and im sorry they seem to forget there are bisexual people in this world too...im married to a bi gut and he is wounderful,and people who judge a bi person really is'nt worth getting up tight about...you listen to your heart and if bi is your sexual prefrece that be true to your heart,you'll find people out in this world who will love you for who you are. :)

[mike9753]

I am not suggesting putting one's head in the sand, I am suggesting minding one's own business. There is a distinct difference between flaunting and discretion.

Zira:

Sorry I have not responded sooner. It seems as if we have a failure to communicate. I seem to misunderstand you and vis-a-vers-a. Let me say first that I apologize for being thickheaded. I do agree that with you about the difference between "flaunting and discretion".

I also confess to have lost the thread of our disagreements. So let me reiterate some of my thoughts as succinctly as I can:

1. I think bisexuality does exist and that there are many people who are attracted to others, without regard to gender.
2. I think many people think they are bisexual but are actually just confused. They maybe gay or str8, but circumstances in their lives have made it more difficult for them.
3. Bisexuality is a comparatively new public phenomenon. The public at large does not know how to deal with people who are bisexual.
4. A perosn's orientation or struggle to determine thier orientation is a provate matter unless and until they take it public and their orientation becomes something that others have to deal with - especially children.
5. Everyone has the right and obligation to be themselves. If that means being very public about your orientation, then you need to be ready to deal with the reactions of those around you who have questions, are ready to discriminate or who may be curious about you.
6. I could say more, but I promised to be succinct.

Does this help us to bring the discussion along further?

Mike
Mike

[freshflesh]

only DISCREET GAY, or BISEXUAL-PRETENDER cannot accept the existence bisexuality. Because they knew they are gay or homosexual themselves but HIDING because of the people surrounds them.

I am bisexual and I am happy to be. I understand why most GAYS hated us, because they knew... WE ARE THE MOST UNIQUE and more HAPPIER. Because we doubled our FUN.... HEKHEKHEK

[freshflesh]

Julie:
I undersdtand you are not referencing my post, but nonetheless you make a good point. My perspective is one of a male who is "over the hump" but not unable to hump.
Mike

only DISCREET GAY, or BISEXUAL-PRETENDER cannot accept the existence bisexuality. Because they knew they are gay or homosexual themselves but HIDING because of the people surrounds them.

I am bisexual and I am happy to be. I understand why most GAYS hated us, because they knew... WE ARE THE MOST UNIQUE and more HAPPIER. Because we doubled our FUN.... HEKHEKHEK

[2curioustwo]

Aren't gays and straights just bis in denial?

That should get the fur flying :bigrin:

[mike9753]

Aren't gays and straights just bis in denial?

That should get the fur flying :bigrin:

Maybe Yes, Maybe No :tongue:

[SweetAmy]

Bisexuals are not greedy and bisexuals dont sleep with everyone and anyone. Although I speak for myself...maybe other bisexuals do sleep around I dont have I clue.

[m.in.heels&hose]

Aren't gays and straights just bis in denial?

That should get the fur flying :bigrin:


2curioustwo
i really had to laugh over this one, this is a lot like the way my sense of humor works!!!

i have read bits and peices of this thread, and i am inclined to give my :2cents:
everyone is born from a female and male, (to me) it really only makes sence that everyone has some sort of bisexuality in them
some would be more bi sexual inclined than others
i just wanted to put my thoughts into this post

thank you for my say in this!
m.in.heels&hose :)

[rayosytruenos]

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Sadly, people like politicians who say homosexuality or bisexuality "just don't make sense" do not understand biology and evolution, as most people don't. Homosexuality and bisexuality are forms of genetic diversity, and without genetic diversity, evolution would not take place, and we would not have the wide, various and beautiful forms of life that we have on earth. Any trait that is not lethal, and does not prevent reproduction is retained. [...] It is indicative that there are multiple genes at work in determining [...] sexuality, and other traits we don't understand, or possibly these traits are determined by a complex process during fetal development. In either case, there can be varying degrees and forms, we don't get to choose our traits, and they may become an advantage in the future evolution of the species. Bisexuality exists.

Hi everyone! This is my first post here on this site. Maybe some of you know me a bit as I've been already a bit on the main chat room. I'm having some problems at the moment, so I got really drunk to forget them for a few hours. Nevertheless I'm going to try to make some sense in my post... lol

Before finding this site a few weeks ago, I was a very active member of a gay site and posted a lot of threads, mainly concerning bisexual issues. I received a few understanding answers, but most of them were non-understanding and even threatening answers. I've seen that we, as bisexuals are not well received in general by gays or straights. The straights regard us as gays, fags or whatever they think of. Gays think of us mainly as sort of undecided, false straights, not truthful to our real gayness, sleeping with the enemy and a lot of other things...

Another misconcept I've seen is that bisexuals are seen that we have to be 50% attracted to girls and 50% attracted to boys. As far as diversity goes, bisexuality is maybe even wider... Keep in mind that if we defined straight as 100% attraction to a person of the other sex, and homosexuality as 100% of attraction to a person of the same sex.... everything between those 2 extremes is bisexuality, so you can be 10% attracted to males and 90% attracted to females, 20% attracted to males and 80% attracted to females, etc...

All those possibilities make a bisexual from my point of view... You can be more attracted to one sex or another or be equally attracted to both sex, but still you are bisexual.

It's more or less like ambidexterous... you can use both hands, but usually for some things you prefer to use one hand or the other... and among ambidexterous, there are different degrees where you normally use more one hand than the other, and in different degree compared to other ambidexterous people.

It's very disappointed when I see that we need to fix into some boxes. You have to be this or that. No other choices are possible. That's not true. Nothing is black or white, there are a lot of gray shades.

[Brian]

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Hi everyone! This is my first post here on this site. Maybe some of you know me a bit as I've been already a bit on the main chat room. I'm having some problems at the moment, so I got really drunk to forget them for a few hours. Nevertheless I'm going to try to make some sense in my post... lol

Before finding this site a few weeks ago, I was a very active member of a gay site and posted a lot of threads, mainly concerning bisexual issues. I received a few understanding answers, but most of them were non-understanding and even threatening answers. I've seen that we, as bisexuals are not well received in general by gays or straights. The straights regard us as gays, fags or whatever they think of. Gays think of us mainly as sort of undecided, false straights, not truthful to our real gayness, sleeping with the enemy and a lot of other things...

Another misconcept I've seen is that bisexuals are seen that we have to be 50% attracted to girls and 50% attracted to boys. As far as diversity goes, bisexuality is maybe even wider... Keep in mind that if we defined straight as 100% attraction to a person of the other sex, and homosexuality as 100% of attraction to a person of the same sex.... everything between those 2 extremes is bisexuality, so you can be 10% attracted to males and 90% attracted to females, 20% attracted to males and 80% attracted to females, etc...

All those possibilities make a bisexual from my point of view... You can be more attracted to one sex or another or be equally attracted to both sex, but still you are bisexual.

It's more or less like ambidexterous... you can use both hands, but usually for some things you prefer to use one hand or the other... and among ambidexterous, there are different degrees where you normally use more one hand than the other, and in different degree compared to other ambidexterous people.

It's very disappointed when I see that we need to fix into some boxes. You have to be this or that. No other choices are possible. That's not true. Nothing is black or white, there are a lot of gray shades. Darn good first post - well said.

But just because you can drink and write, please don't think you can drink and drive. ;)

- Drew :paw:

[nerdslut]

Prettiness matters, genitalia does not.

That's how I've summed up my attitude towards the people I'm attracted to. I'm sure it'll change when I want to be an adult and have meaningful relationships and stuff.

[bigregory]

It's more or less like ambidexterous... you can use both hands, but usually for some things you prefer to use one hand or the other... and among ambidexterous, there are different degrees where you normally use more one hand than the other, and in different degree compared to other ambidexterous people.quote from rayosytrenos



I wish i could use my left hand more often lol
With the heto population i think we will never be accepted same as gay folk.
Gays ,well some days i find there ok with bi's then next time they are not.
I guess its like being a black cat , some person is going to love you,others are going to fear you,(try not to cross their path) :2cents:

[CuteGeorgiaBoy]

Genuine bisexuals are not so easy to pin down, and most people seem to have a difficult time getting a real grasp of the concept. As a result, they fail on many levels when trying to understand bisexual people.

Heterosexuals I know tend to label me as homosexual. Homosexual people that I know seem to think that I am a heterosexual they can turn on to the gay lifestyle. Both are guessing, as I have not outted myself to anyone as anything. I have experienced this my entire life. Until I was around twenty, most people could not even tell at first glance if I was male or female. Needless to say there were plenty of propositions from older people (mostly men) that did not care either way.

My appearance did not make me bisexual. If anything, my appearance was an expression of my bisexuality.

I have tried to no avail to explain my feelings to people that I know. Bisexual is a label. I will not be defined by the label. The attraction that I feel towards male and female people is not of my design and comes naturally.

Some seem to make bisexuality just about sex. For some people that claim to be bisexual, I am sure it is just about sex. That is their choice. When I try to explain my feelings to another person, I ask them to think about their whole relationship with their significant other (not just sex). Then I ask them to think of all the good things about that person; all the things they like. Then I ask them to imagine their mate as the other sex. (This is where I usually lose them though.)

I am attracted to whomever I am attracted to. For me, the gender of that person is incidental. I have had wonderful relationships with both genders, with and without sexual contact.

Perhaps things will improve when the world stops seeing bisexual people as defectors from the gay team or the straight team or as double-agents for both teams. We have our own team. Make room. :banghead:

[SweetBlackAngel]

Wow, CuteGeorgiaBoy! That last paragraph was beautifully said. Amen! :flag3:

[krazynkoolgirl]

In answer to Kittle. I do not consider myself curious. I KNOW I like both men and women. I pick and choose friends carefully. I don't remain friends very long with someone that tells me to pick a side and i especially do not date someone that tells me that all the time. If your ex told you that all the time maybe she is just insecure with her own sexuality.

As far as my straight friends or gay friends understanding. I don't worry about who understands my sexuality. There is more to me than that and true friends see that. It really is only up to me and my partner be it male or female to understand it. I feel you have to be comfortable with yourself before anyone else can be.

[open2both]

I love both...Therefore, I am!

[JohnnyV]

When it comes to stereotypes, I have found that straight people just don't know what to make of me. Most of my friends are straight men, and if they know about my past with guys, they don't talk about it. We talk about sports and politics instead.

Gay people tend to accept me very warmly as an individual, but gay people talk about bisexuality itself disparagingly. It's like the way I've heard it said, "Southern racists like blacks as people but hate them as a group, while Northern racists like blacks as a group but hate them as people." Gay folks view me as an individual case and they support my choices; we talk about our lives without any tension and they always want me to be happy. But politically, they do not feel bisexuality is a valid category and they believe that bisexuals are confused gay people or sellouts.

[OralBradley]

I find that the gay people that I have met are a lot less understanding about being bisexual than strait people. The last person I dated was a lesbian and her friend didn't trust me because I was bi, because of this we eventually broke up. every strait person I knew supported me and my decision to be with a lesbian.

:flag3: :soapbox: When I was coming out to myself as bisexual, the psychologist said that I was just passing though a phase. The local gay hot-line chided be for "using" gay me for my sexual pleasure.
I finally realized that we are always passing through one phase or another. And yes, I was using gay men for my sexual pleasure--and giving pleasure to them in return!

[HudsonValleyNY]

I told one gay man I was bi once...he turned to his friend and said, "Yeah, if he can't get it for free, he'll buy it!!!" The last time I told anyone except a current or potential partner that I was bi.

[runwildtonight]

Well going back to the begginig (sorta) I started as back as I can remember (elementary school) thinking that I was straight but not narrow and I loved that term and was always happy defneding homosexuality (except to my family) then I got curious for a couple years then I think I considered myself BI-curious until I had been with this great guy sevral times who was gay and I just got tired of the curious because I found out that I am BI. I dont believe I will go all the way to gay though, because I still love women, just because I found something else I love doesnt mean that Im going to give up the other. As for labels I dont mind them so long as they are for good, If they hurt then I change my mind (Im bi I can have 2 opinions on the same thing LOL)

runwildtonight :bibounce: :bibounce:

[lbamm]

This site and it's members all ROCK !! I grew up in a predominantly "gay" area and have had some really cool experiences but afterwards felt too uncomfortable to enjoy it and held back when it was going on. Mainly due to the "stigma" surrounding bisexual or "gay" encounters. the people whom I had most of my experiences were "gay' and insisted that I was just "confused". I met a woman who changed all of that. She gave me the excitement and reasurance that was missing all my life and I was finally able to give myself over completely ( with her coaxing!) to the same sex. How entirely satisfying! And you know what...I totally enjoy men in ways I never had known...But I still love women ( maybe even more! ). I was more comfortable with my desires as well as my past and thankede her every day for tking me there! Since we separated i've been lost and confused. I found this website and have probably made an ass of myself trying to find some understanding. I've just read the forums and I don't feel like an outsider any longer ! Thanks for all the great entries ! Nice to find people who understand. It's helped me to undestand myself ! Your a great bunch of people and I cant wait to have sex with each and every one of you ! ( Just Kidding ! )

[HudsonValleyNY]

Straying somewhat from the original question, but in keeping with the discussion of bsexuaility, I would just like to point out the following:

IN the big picture, grand scheme of things, we see the diversity of the universe all around us. Many different types of grasses, trees, mammals, insects, planets, galaxies, peoples, you name it, and the universe provides a variety of examples of it. In my humble opinion, the same holds true for sexuality.

From 100% gay or str8, to all the combinations that can be imagined. From vanilla style missionary, to all out raunchy kink (in all orientation catogories), people's orientations run the gamut...just as we are all individuals in makeup and thought patterns. Although many a self proclaimed gay or str8 individual may be unable to concieve of a situtation in which they might participate in the opposite of what they are attracted to, I can't help but think that the POSSIBILITY of that situation ever occuring isn't 0%. As an example, I point to 'situational homosexuality,' wherein, in prisons, manly, masculine men that have never so much as entertained the concept of sleeping with thier own gender, have been known to do so while intered. After release, the mojority of these men go back to being stricly heterosexual.

Does bisexuality exist? If one wishes to hang a label on a behavior, innate or learned, sure it does. But for my money, all people are SEXUAL, period...and the sooner people stop trying to catogorize each other into neat little titles, the sooner we will all be accepted for our diversity as a species and an integral part of the cosmos.

Labels define a particular behavior, not individual people.

If society wants to label me, label me TRY-SEXUAL....if I try it and like it, I'll do it again. :)

What a great site this is!!! I delight in the comments and insights of my fellow patrons.

[OralBradley]

Accepting that our indivual sexualities derive from a combination of both nature and nurture and that we develop from DNA that comes from for the ovum and the spermatazoum via an involved process it is small wonder that some of us are bisexual. The real wonder is that bisexuality is not the norm--or is it abnormal only because of the bias of others.
If you think about it, each individual is a mutation of the two parents who donated their DNA. The process of fertilization and growing an embryo requires that the DNA unwinds into two strans of RNA which the break apart and reassemble and combine into a new DNA molecule. My guess is that the probablility of some error occuring is virtually 1.00000, and by defination a mutation occurs.

[thinkingaboutit18]

I've only recently started to tell friends and family that i am in fact bi. It's been rather stressful just thinking about how people might react badly. Luckily, those I've told thus far have been very understanding (especially my friends), who didn't even bat an eyelash when saying "Ok, cool". Telling my friends gave me the courage to tell my mother. I know she's an understanding person, but i also know she doesn't want the struggle that comes with being bi or gay or otherwise for her son. It took her some time, but she accepted it and supports me (this was four days ago). I've been debating on whether to tell my father. He's the son of a Seventh Day Adventist pastor, and a woman who was raised on an island where all they really had was religion... i'm sure you can imagine why i have fears. It's pretty obvious that my father is a bit homophobic, and i feel like if i tell him i'm bisexual he'll only see that as me CHOOSING to be gay. He's honestly my best friend and i love him dearly. I tell him everything, good or bad. But this is a tough one. I mean he literally said: "man, if you were gay, that would ruin my life.".

[Briar Rose]

Just a couple of thoughts in reference to either experiences or points that other people brought up.

For the gentleman, and anybody else who is interested, referring to a discussion on another site citing the university study that said that bi men don't exist--that experiment was bad science from the get-go. There is an excellent article on that study here on this site, pretty well debunking the obvious issues and a good many more out there on the net as well.

The investigator's name was J. Michael Bailey. He has ties to some eugenics types. (People who want to isolate "gay" gene(s) and abort any fetus showing it I believe.) http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2003/winter/disposable-people/queer-science So he has an agenda. He apparently doesn't care for sexual ambiguity in any way because he doesn't think transgender people are real either. The only reason I can think of why anyone in the gay community would use a study by J. Michael Bailey as an example would be because he supports their prejudices.

This is just meant to be FYI. It does make for interesting conversations btw because most of the people who quote the study have no idea. For folks who live other parts of the world, the Southern Poverty Law Center is a US focused liberal watchdog group for civil rights etc. I consider them a respectable source.

My other thought as I read through the thread was this: I wonder if we sometimes don't visualize the population curve on the Kinsey scale the wrong way. Bell curves are not required to bump up in the middle. A bell curve can start high and go down. To me, this is better supported by the relative reported populations. So, the curve would start high at Kinsey 0, and wafts in a graceful arc down to about 4-8% (10 to 13%? both numbers are stuck in my head) or so of the population at Kinsey 6. (Btw, I got this suggestion from a UK bi site that I didn't bookmark and can't remember the name of but I bet some of the UK folks here know it.) That still gives a large population of bi's that show an array of behaviors from 1 to 5 with 2 to 4 being most "clearly" bi (if there is any such thing.) :)

Has anyone seen this paper? Or reported it on this site? http://www.kenjiyoshino.com/articles/epistemiccontract.pdf
Once you work your way through the academic speak, he makes some very interesting points.

[ErosUrge]

Caught your attention didn't I?

We've all heard the stereotypes. Bisexuals are just confused. They are really gay and just can't accept it. The label bisexual is just a phase, the transition between straight and gay. And (my fav) bisexuals are just greedy - they wanna have sex with everyone.

I have a couple questions for you all. First, what stereotypes have you come up against?

Do you feel accepted for who you are?

Do you find that your gay friends have a harder time understanding your sexuality more than your straight friends?

My answers, well, I told you the stereotypes. I don't always feel accepted. And my gay friends seem to have more of a problem with my sexuality then the my straight friends. My ex girlfriend used to tease me all the time, that I was really gay but couldn't accept it. Telling me to choose a side, stop being a fence sitter, yada yada.

Overall, I do feel accepted for who I am, but there have been some moments with gay people. My gay friends are fine with me being bi, but there have been run ins where I was given the same ole lecture about really being gay but ashamed to admit it and using women as a cover to hide behind, blah blah blah...........

It just doesn't matter any more; I mean really. You can't change what people choose to believe even if they're wrong. I have my own issues at times from getting stuck about what I think and believe, but never about sexuality...so, what is one to do except let it be and move on.....

[Bicurious1989]

I would say I'm the last stereo type. I am greedy and do want to sleep with everyone :D

[JP1986UM]

For some men, bisexuality is merely a reference point to get their cock sucked by a man and have access to the partners wife so they can get some free pussy.

Those types are easy to see thru.

Straight men, merely having sex with other men so they can try and nail the wife.

I hope those types, have their genitals mutilated in a horrible car accident.

No....no anger issues there.....:tong::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

[Dinkydoo72]

hey peeps :)
I was looking for bisexual groups online & found this one, was reading the blogs & this one has been very informative & interesting so I had 2 hop on the reply thread LOL
I'm gay I don't identify as bi, I never been with a chick. I'm seeing a bi dude, and wanted to learn more about bi people. I have to admit i was one of those hostile gay dudes towards bisexuals, didn't trust them and I think it's because I didn't truly understand bisexuality because I personally couldn't understand being attracted to both sexes. Now I kind of wish I was lol

I really like how one person posted, it's not the sexuality but the person you're attracted to that really counts and it doesn't matter if it's a man or woman. I never saw myself with a bi guy for more than a one night stand, but I'm really glad I am cause he's an awesome guy.

There is a lot of hostility towards bisexuals in the gay community, it's been interesting to read some people's experiences with that. I don't know why there is, the main theme seems to be that a bi person hasn't come out as a gay one yet, or that they're just very promiscuous & untrustworthy, and part of it is almost "you can't join our club if you're not gay" mentality. I think a lot of it too is that it's easy as a gay guy to fall for a bi guy, and it hurts if it's the type of guy that likes sex with a dude but can't fall in love with one, and I'm sure the same thing with lesbians, and it creates a lot of bitterness. The few gay friends I told that I'm seeing a bi guy have all given me shit & think I'm stupid, and one said he had been down that road before and it was very painful. I think gay people should be a lot more supportive of the bisexual community, we're not too different we both face prejudice & need to educate people about ourselves. I'm curious if anyone here has dated a gay person and what their experience has been like with that, is it tougher than dating a heterosexual?

[Gearbox]

Hello Dinkydoo72. Glad your not listening to your friends. You have a mind of your own.:)

I dated a gay bloke. It lasted about 6 weeks.lol There was nothing I could do to convince him that I wasn't screwing everything on two legs as soon as his back was turned. So he dumped me.:rolleyes: Then had a drama because I was fine with him dumping me.lol

That's the only bloke I've dated. I like to think that he's not a 'typical gay', as there are no 'typical bisexuals'. We come in all flavours.
You have exactly the same chances of being cheated on as you would if he was gay or straight.
Try for God sake not to push him away with paranoia! Hope you do well together.:)

[matutum]

Hi Kittles. You make a good point. I myself am bicurious, very few people know this of me. Some of my straight friends give me hell over it, they dont really understand how I can be attracted to both men and women. My bi friends are more understanding and helpful, easy to talk to about things. My gay friends, well no coment there. I tend to agree with Mikes point, a person who is attracted to other people. For me it is who the person is, not just because they are male of female. From what I have seen, its the closed minded people who really dont understand. I have not told my husband or my family because of that reason. I know how they think and what thier views are. Anyway, I dont think it matters if a person is gay or bi or straight, its who they are as a person that makes them beautiful. :) :female: :2cents:

correct ...its the person,i wish i could exchange my parts to express my love to certain people.I like very much some men but they like pussy (and if i could give them pussy i would)i have had a lesbian friend and she finally had sex with me because we were attracted to each other sexually.She wished I was a woman but due to physical differences we still showed our attraction to each other.

[BiDaveDtown]

For some men, bisexuality is merely a reference point to get their cock sucked by a man and have access to the partners wife so they can get some free pussy.

Those types are easy to see thru.

Straight men, merely having sex with other men so they can try and nail the wife.

I hope those types, have their genitals mutilated in a horrible car accident.

No....no anger issues there.....:tong::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

I don't know of any actual straight or hetero guy who wants to get his penis sucked off by another man at all. If a guy is doing a MMF 3 way like you described and engaging in sex with other men he's not hetero/straight at all.

I don't see anything wrong with the type of bisexual men you described.

Who are you to judge what two or more consenting adults do sexually?

It's not my thing but I do know more than a few bisexual men who would love to suck off a man and then watch as he fucks their wife.

[Dinkydoo72]

Thanks for sharing ur story Gearbox, and the advice!! LOL I kind of think that, that he must be screwing chicks left & right behind my back, but I know it's paranoia and I never ask him about him sleeping around...kinda funny that he's always trying to worm that out of me, I guess gay guys are viewed as pretty promiscuous too LOL Thanks for the good wishes man, cheers! :)