Well played, Nabisco!!! Bravo!!!

[csrakate]

http://www.wric.com/story/25162733/nabisco-fights-anti-gay-backlash-over-wholesome-ad-with-love

[tenni]

Ah..someone made reference to the Love image today. I think that it is good that the company is standing up for equality for gays. Sadly they are not standing up for bisexual equality. Whether it is wholesome or whether love must be wholesome may be worth exploring by some. Where is the commercial promoting closed loop relationships as wholesome and represented as part of love? When will the company promote wholesome love between three people of differing genders?

Don't give the BS about one step at a time. Nabisco give us wholesome bisexual forms of love as well!

[csrakate]

OK, Tenni....I'll give you that....but just how do you suggest that Nabisco accomplish such a feat without looking as if it is simply pandering a lifestyle? So you want to see two men and a woman sharing a graham cracker? I think acceptance at any level is showing that ANY form or combination is wholesome, genuine, real so does it really matter? How do we not know that any of the characters in the commercial were NOT bisexual? Why should we assume ANYTHING? Not trying to be confrontational....just trying to understand. I just personally saw it as a major step forward in ACCEPTANCE, regardless of gender or sexuality.....just acceptance, plain and simple.

[Fzmr9t]

I liked the commercials. Both of them. I just saw them as trying to show that "wholesome" should no longer be restricted to 'white bread'. Rye, wheat, pumpernickel, all are just as good. BTW, my favorite is wheat :-)

[tenni]

Kate
You and I may think that one person in a same “couple” scene just might be bisexual but the vast majority will think gay. We both know that. Add two men and a woman with children and they will wonder.


In your country a couple of same sex being presented as family is new(ish). That is not that new here. Good for Nabisco to textually include the concept of wholesome. However, as pro bisexuality peeps we need to ask to be included in a other than “couple” concept.


It is the triad rather than couple scenario that needs to be presented. No waiting fifteen more years. The dialogue needs to happen here and then grow, Expectations that coupledom is the only wholesome lifestyle needs altering. :)

[by~his~side]

I'm very curious to see how this thread progresses.
When I read the thread I immediately thought ....Good for Kate! She posted a positive thread relating to acceptance and tolerance. Something the members here can agree has been a long time coming!

And then second comment on the list.....Tenni pissed on my Teddy Graham's.

Suffice it to say I don't agree with his negative view on the Nabisco commercial at all.
They did an excellent job depicting several nontraditional families and groups enjoying a Nabisco snack with their loved ones.
Should lesbians be upset that two mothers and a baby weren't shown as well as the two fathers and their baby?
Should mixed marriage couples who aren't black and white be upset because they weren't shown?
How about a young father who plays violin to entertain his young wife and child instead of a grunge band guitar? Should he be upset that his likeness wasn't represented in the commercial?

Graham crackers are an old fashioned snack. Nabisco wanted to show their old fashioned snack being enjoyed by the *new* normal.
(Or nontraditional if you prefer)
I love the commercial and I'm proud that Nabisco has it's headquarters right here in North Jersey. I think because they are located here in the NY/NJ area it makes them a progressive and forward thinking company.

Just a thought here-I always wondered about the Oreo. Two hard cookies on the outside sharing that soft cream filling....it's a cookie 3some. Does it get much better than that??

~D~

[csrakate]

Just a thought here-I always wondered about the Oreo. Two hard cookies on the outside sharing that soft cream filling....it's a cookie 3some. Does it get much better than that??

~D~
AWESOME thought!!! :tongue: Oreos, the bisexual snack. You can enjoy them together, enjoying all flavors at once! Or you can enjoy them apart, using the tongue on one part before devouring yet another part! Oh my!

[tenni]

by his side

Ok...you disagree. Are you only pro gay activism?

I am a bisexual man. I support bisexual activism. It doesn't demean same sex coupling positive acts.

We, bisexuals need to be more pro active which is not negativism. These commercials are good for gay and heterosexual monosexuals but not that good for bisexual awareness as far as what is wholesome for bisexuals. When I saw it, I thought what about bisexuals? missing or as Kate said...could be part of a same sex couple...the key being "coupldom".

I personally care about bisexuals not gay lesbians monoseuxals. To support the actions of Nabisco would be continuing to support gay and heterosexual coupling at the cost of a bi Invisibility approach to life and relationships.

Why are you pissed when a bisexual issue is brought forth on a bisexual site? Are you not pro bisexual activism?

Oreo cookie idea is cute!

[LizaLynn]

I liked the commercials. Both of them. I just saw them as trying to show that "wholesome" should no longer be restricted to 'white bread'. Rye, wheat, pumpernickel, all are just as good. BTW, my favorite is wheat :-)

I'm bi, right down to my marble rye. ;)

[csrakate]

Ohhh, I am sooo confused! I just noticed the time on these posts. I haven't been around much lately and I didn't notice that the time is wrong. I was starting to wonder if I was in a time warp! LOL!

[elian]

At this time, in this political climate love is a universal message that needs to be heard..it was brave of them to do it and I hope they are rewarded. I don't teach bisexualism by demanding my rights, I teach open sexuality, that sex is not something to be feared - and that love means more - one person at a time through personal relationships with other people.. Perhaps this approach doesn't work for everyone but frankly, I just want to live my life as example of the way I would like to be treated by others.

[Yoyome100]

Life as well as bisexuality is not as well defined as folks would like it to be. There are degrees of bisexuality not just those who are smack dab in the middle. Those that see only those who are equally attracted to males and females as bisexual are themselves practicing bisexual erasure by denying that those who prefer, but not limited to some degree, one sex over the other are bisexual too.
The folks on Madison Avenue are marketers first and foremost and really not pillars of social enlightenment. It is nice that they have tried an ad that would promote acceptance but in this day in age where social conservatives are funneling money to regimes in countries like Uganda, who are making it legal to kill someone solely on their sexuality, I think wanting more is a bit of wishful thinking. I would like to see more inclusion but there is some fierce hatred out there that needs to be overcome.

[CurEUs_Male]

Good for Nabisco, I'm happy to see acceptance leading to a response of love. This just after the Firefox CEO resigned due to a faux-pause brought to light by OKCupid and social media.
What a week!

Time to go make out with an Oreo cookie :tongue:

[biblkman]

Good on ya Nabisco!

Im not in the least bit bothered that they dont have an ad portraying wholesome bisexual.

Im glad that Nabisco is taking a large step towards tolerance and acceptance.

Bisexuality is rrecently starting to fit in main stream and is recently but slowly starting to be seen as a legitimate sexuality, i think Nabisco is taking step in the right direction by promoting acceptance it eventually benifits all of the LGBT community

[Long Duck Dong]

awesome ad...... I love the way they show diversity......

personally, I see people that may or may not be bisexual, with a alternative lifestyle that is not visible to the viewer ( much of our sexuality is not on public display any way )..... we are too diverse to portray using a singular format that does not really say anything about us....and any singular format would only serve to portray one aspect of the most diverse sexuality ( pansexuality being more diverse ) whats wrong with two females and a male ? its still a loose representation of bisexuality.....

and to be honest, isn't love of the partner and optional sexual partners something that is pushed within the site as a acceptable aspect of bisexuality.... so maybe we could have a couple ( male and female ) and a line of guys ( some in closets reaching out their hands ) and others standing around, handing out crackers.....

sorry I am pissing myself laughing here... and not because its not a interesting and serious question of how to portray our sexuality.... but the automatically assuming the sexuality of the people in the ad, is not bisexual, reminds me of the threads in the site about how wrong it is for people to assume just because two guys or two women are walking down the road hand in hand and they kiss, that they are gay / lesbian......and how to stop people automatically assuming they are.... and we are seeing couples that may or may not be bisexual and its being assumed that they are heteros .....lol

now if somebody wants to send me a box of the crackers, I would be interested in trying them.... I have heard about smores as well and in NZ we can not get them

[Realist]

I'm gonna buy some more Graham Crackers, get a cup of coffee, and mull it over.

I thought it was a nice gesture and at least someone is attempting to show diverse lifestyles in a better light.

I felt there were positive messages, in that video...I hope more follow....maybe more well-placed scenes like those will help. We need people to know we're not ogres!

[tenni]

Life as well as bisexuality is not as well defined as folks would like it to be. There are degrees of bisexuality not just those who are smack dab in the middle. Those that see only those who are equally attracted to males and females as bisexual are themselves practicing bisexual erasure by denying that those who prefer, but not limited to some degree, one sex over the other are bisexual too.
The folks on Madison Avenue are marketers first and foremost and really not pillars of social enlightenment. It is nice that they have tried an ad that would promote acceptance but in this day in age where social conservatives are funneling money to regimes in countries like Uganda, who are making it legal to kill someone solely on their sexuality, I think wanting more is a bit of wishful thinking. I would like to see more inclusion but there is some fierce hatred out there that needs to be overcome.

Bisexual erasure or bisexual invisibility is the tendency to ignore, remove, falsify, or reexplain evidence of bisexuality in history, academia, news media and other …


Bisexuality may be fairly simply defined without ignoring that there are variations and intensities (ie sexual fluidity) of bisexuality. Equal attraction is not required in order to see yourself as having the gift to be attracted to both genders. There does not seem to need to have a consistent equal attraction but in its purest form bisexuality may lead to triad relationships rather than coupledom. People who are equally attracted are not practicing bi erasure as they are not ignoring representing bisexuality in the media, history or other systemic lack of presentations of bisexuality in such commercials as Nabisco. It is the corporations, government and media that may practice bi erasure / bi invisibility. People who call themselves bisexual may only be ignorant of the discrimination perhaps because it doesn't impact their own personal lives that much. They are comfortable in a monosexual lifestyle of coupledom with just a minor sexual involvement with same sex partners on the side. They can appear to be "normal" or pass as a monosexual with no desire to live a triad closed loop life. Their attraction to both genders is not that strong. They are comfortable enough or simply have not felt sufficient need to feel internal pressure to break away from coupldom values.

The numbers of people who identify some attraction to both genders is probably much larger than those who are attracted to both genders equally enough that they may want to create a triad closed loop relationship. That does not mean that such relationships need to be ignored any more than same sex marriage rights should be ignored because once upon a time many homosexuals do not want to be married.(this was an argument within the gay community at one point. Some gays did not want marriage equality. They wanted to emphasize that they were different than heterosexuals rather than more similar to heterosexuals). The self education within the gay groups processed and evolved through political protest and action. Over time, even those gays who resisted having same sex marriages was a valuable fight for equality. Bisexuals need to become more aware that just because they personally do not want a triad closed loop marriage does not mean that it is unworthy of raising the consciousness of society to it.

The corporations are not pillars of social enlightenment. This is true. I suspect that Nabisco is not even aware that they are practicing Bi erasure/ Bi Invisibility. There is insufficient political desire or even political ignorance within bisexuals themselves. When bisexuals do not even recognize Bi Erasure in the media, there is still so much self awareness needed. When bisexuals can look at such ads and completely be unaware that it is Bi Invisibility, we have so much more self enlightenment to go through. It seems that some bisexuals and others can look at such ads and say is this not great thing for homosexuals!...ignoring the Bi erasure aspects completely. It seems that even some supporters get upset when the Bi erasure is presented to them. They want to be happy for gays.... They think that bisexuals are just like the gays and so it must be good for bisexuals too? (only if they practice / conform to coupledom concepts)

[Long Duck Dong]

just out of interest.... I was talking to a couple of friends tonight, and I brought the ad up and asked what their reaction would be to 3 people seeming to be in a relationship ?.... their reaction was ok.... 3 people in a relationship setting ? is the company trying to show support for polygamy marriages ( illegal), polyarmous relationships, Bigamy ( illegal)..... I linked them to the thread and they read it.....

they both laughed..... and asked how do you convey sexuality in a advert ? how can you possibly convey accurate evidence of sexuality in an advert and the NATURE of the relationship in a triad .....

people are only going to see bisexuality in an advert if they want to see bisexuality in a advert..... and 2 guys and two girls are going to be seen as lesbian and gay because thats how people want to see them.... they will not see them as bisexual couples in a same sex relationship because that is not the image of a same sex relationship that the world has seen, the public image is of lesbian and gay people..... and thats why 3 people in a relationship style will be seen as as a triad, 3 way relationship, poly/bigamous hetero marriage and NOT as a bisexual triad.... its not because they are unaware of bisexuality... its that the public image is one of bigamy / polygamy as a heterosexual aspect.....

unless you actively tell people the nature of the relationship, then they will assume the nature of the relationship..... and somehow my friends and I can not see a biscuit advert with flashing signs that say that this couple is hetero... this couple is gay.... and this triad is two bisexual people and a ( insert sexuality ) 3rd partner......

my two friends are a couple of NZs more prolific LGBT advocates, both bisexual and one of them is living in a triad.....

26311

great triad style pic, very tasteful, definitely a bisexual type of pics... and so they should be seen as bisexual, right ? they could be 3 heterosexuals having a 3some, a gay guy and a bi guy with a bi or hetero female, they could be in a triad or a casual hook up, friends with benefits....... its all in the eyes of the beholder and their own mind......and that is why pushing a image of what bisexuality is all about, fails so badly...... we can not tell people what they are supposed to see, we can only show them the reality of our own lifestyles and the way we live our own lives..... otherwise most people will not see what we see and what we see is based around assumption unless we know the truth about the people ourselves.......

if you want to show the world about bisexuality and triads, then get bisexual triads to speak on tv about their favourite graham crackers and their relationship... that will make it very clear to people that they are seeing a bisexual triad on tv with graham crackers..... otherwise the only people that will be thinking its a bisexual triad are the ones that want to see it as a bisexual triad...... and that is why teaching the masses is not working.... people can not see beyond what they want to see .... they need to look thru the eyes of other people and see what they will see......

thank you Csrakate for a very interesting and debate provoking thread.....

[csrakate]

While any thread is open to interpretation as well as the subsequent discussions that go along with those interpretations, I feel it necessary to clarify MY reasons for this thread and it's title, "Well played, Nabisco". I was simply applauding Nabisco for not only expressing acceptance of alternate lifestyles, but mostly for standing up for what they did. Specifically, my thread was to applaud the following things:



Nabisco did not kow-tow to the conservative mobs that threatened boycotts.
They did not pull the ads nor did they feel a need to apologize for them.
They responded to the negative responses with class and with "LOVE", showing the same acceptance of those who do not agree with them, and avoided doing so in a negative way.


Plain and simply, this thread was about a positive step in a positive direction. Was it all inclusive? No, as evidenced by the lack of including "overt and open" bisexuality, but the door has been opened and the first steps have been taken. I didn't see it as a "victory for the gays" as tenni sees it, but as a victory for every lifestyle that may not be perceived as the status quo. A message doesn't have to be in your face to be heard....


P.S. I am absolutely addicted to low-fat, Cinnamon Graham Crackers by Nabisco!!!! :bigrin:

[Notjustuet]

Watch this, love part 2.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/honey-maid-responds-to-ad-criticism-with-new-video-promoting--love-171327123.html?vp=1

[DuckiesDarling]

That was amazing, Kate, thanks so much for posting that here. The acceptance by a company that makes something originally designed to cure your masturabation habits.. been a long way to go but they are getting there. Maybe someday it really won't matter the color of your skin or the gender of the person you love. Racism/Prejudice/Phobia... all are just HATE.

[karen_t70]

I do not know Tenni, or really anyone else here yet, but I wanted to say I was surprised at the 2nd post here. It really seemed to me from what I was reading was, if you do not agree with me 100% then you do not agree with me at all. The world simply does not work that way. And sexual preference should be a personal issue that should be accepted by all, but at the same time, it does not need to be on every commercial or every TV show or every anything. If someone does make a commercial showing they are not homophobic, saying that it means that they are biphobic in so many words, is a pretty scarey concept to me as to how angry people are about the world around them. Not that there is nothing to be angry about, but lets not pick fights where there was not one to be picked.

[elian]

if you want to show the world about bisexuality and triads, then get bisexual triads to speak on tv about their favourite graham crackers and their relationship...


**ROTFL*

Sorry, I know some people are trying to take this topic seriously.

The other thing you have to realize is that most ads on US TV to date that involve graham crackers usually also feature a solo shot of a cute, young -majority- child of either gender holding either a fluffy stuffed teddy bear or barely holding on to a small glass of milk.. In some parts of the country people will be offended just by showing mixed races. So I like the fact that they showed a lot of different "non-traditional" family settings..I even like LDDs picture, but I'm not quite sure where you would stuff the graham crackers..

Yes, I know it seems ridiculous now that cuckold porn is the hot new thing but such is the way of the world..people will always find SOMETHING to complain about..

[elian]

"No, you can't stick them in there, they'll just get soggy!" :oh:

[Long Duck Dong]

nods consumer marketing lol..... we have the same thing here in NZ.....

lol I am not taking the thread that seriously, to be honest.... the original post and ad, yes, I love them... but the rest of the stuff ??? ...... its like the song that DD posted http://www.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?15721-What-a-great-vid look beyond the personal thinking about if we would shag the people or not.... and its the same type of message.... we are all the same, we care, we love and we share, and the singers message is that race, colour, sexuality doesn't matter when it comes to loving people...... but people are going to go by their personal feelings and if they would shag the people or not and completely miss the message in the video...

I used to think once that I would make a difference if I worked with LGBT communities, just talking with them about not teaching people about bisexuality but sharing lives, experiences and understandings..... then I realised.... reach out and touch the people that are open to sharing... they are the ones that will change the world in the long run...

[tenni]

I do not know Tenni, or really anyone else here yet, but I wanted to say I was surprised at the 2nd post here. It really seemed to me from what I was reading was, if you do not agree with me 100% then you do not agree with me at all. The world simply does not work that way. And sexual preference should be a personal issue that should be accepted by all, but at the same time, it does not need to be on every commercial or every TV show or every anything. If someone does make a commercial showing they are not homophobic, saying that it means that they are biphobic in so many words, is a pretty scarey concept to me as to how angry people are about the world around them. Not that there is nothing to be angry about, but lets not pick fights where there was not one to be picked.

Hi Karen
My point is that there was nothing in the commercial supporting bisexuality. NOTHING. We are not gay.
Although sexual preference is seen by you as personal issue, the absence of representations of bisexuals in the media should be a concern for all bisexuals. Are there any commercials showing bisexuals? I know of none. There is just the beginning of showing bisexuals in the media in movies etc. Every once in while someone on this site posts a question about which movie star is a bisexual? What historical person was bisexual? etc. That is an attempt to eradicate the Bi Erasure in North America.

This commercial did not show homophobia but instead reacted to the homophobia of some viewers of the first commercial. It was done in a very positive manner. There is no denying that. I did not say that the commercial was biphobic. I don't know who gave you that impression. The commercial is using Bi erasure /Bi Invisibility. There is a huge difference between biphobia and Bi Invisibility/Bi Erasure. The three terms are not interchangeable.

"Lets not pick fights where there was not one to pick"
I'm saddened if that is your perspective. There seems to be a few people on this bisexual site who are insensitive to bisexual issues. Bi Invisibility is very strong in the media. The position of some show that the "fight" for equality will be a very long fight within bisexuals on this website..let alone society. Pity.

Bisexuality is not a synonym for homosexual monosexuality. A victory for homosexual is just that. It is not a victory for bisexuals. The only bisexuals who gain anything from this commercial are bisexuals living in a same sex relationship. Then again, if you are a bisexual living in a same sex relationship are you happy being portrayed in the media as a homosexual? Would you like your sexuality acknowledged even if you are living in a same sex coupledom relationship? Or is it good enough to be seen as gay?

[Gearbox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPbXwSrwAQk
Yay a bisexual in an advert.:bounce: And he's cheating on his male lover.:eek:

Well at least it's something.lol That add wouldn't have worked if the lover was female, or the woman was male. Or if the term 'wholesome' was thrown about either. No, we are told what wholesome is in the Nabisco add and it's 1-1 committed relationships between anybody, as long as there's no funny bizz 3somes and poly going on.
Wouldn't have killed them to present a bi or poly relationship tho. It's just as easy as presenting any other kind, as it's not rocket science!
Maybe in the next one? Lets see how far they can stretch 'wholesome' and include bisexuals and a Muslim bloke with 6 wives.:tongue:

[darkeyes]

:yikes2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPbXwSrwAQk
Yay a bisexual in an advert.:bounce: And he's cheating on his male lover.:eek:

Well at least it's something.lol That add wouldn't have worked if the lover was female, or the woman was male. Or if the term 'wholesome' was thrown about either. No, we are told what wholesome is in the Nabisco add and it's 1-1 committed relationships between anybody, as long as there's no funny bizz 3somes and poly going on.
Wouldn't have killed them to present a bi or poly relationship tho. It's just as easy as presenting any other kind, as it's not rocket science!
Maybe in the next one? Lets see how far they can stretch 'wholesome' and include bisexuals and a Muslim bloke with 6 wives.:tongue:

[elian]

but sharing lives, experiences and understandings..... then I realised.... reach out and touch the people that are open to sharing... they are the ones that will change the world in the long run...

..and in my experience, personal relationships (not manifesto or demands) are what sell people on the idea of LGBT rights, the fact that there is a "movement" only gives them something to rally around once they've already made up their minds.

Also, I'm pretty sure that -most- people like to be touched, it's a basic human need - although some are more bashful about it than others.. I guess you do occasionally run into a few folks who really aren't into it.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol and agreed.... and by touching, I mean just sharing ideas, understandings, opinions and showing people what bisexuality can be about...... that its more than just suck grope and fuck.... that its also friendship, fun, laughter, tears, loss, heart ache and heartbreak.... its having a beer with people, a BBQ, a picnic, a movie etc.... and the fact that we are just the same as everybody else......

its part of why I love the ad... it shows people that could be any sexuality, being normal people.... and personally I have noticed that people tend to respond better to normal people, normal bisexuals, and that ad is brillant in showing that to love and be loved, care about and be cared about, is fine, its normal and its wholesome.....

[karen_t70]

Not showing a bisexual couple is not the same as saying they do not support bisexuality. That was my point. And a victory for homosexuality is not a defeat for bisexuality. I guess since I am not an activist, I just did not get the point for the outrage. I will try to read more closely and fully.

[Gearbox]

:!:- I think somebody should point out at this juncture that:
(1) -There is no 'normal' bisexual in reality.
(2) -Those who only want the sex bit are not inferior to any other.
(3) -'Wholesome' is whatever it is to the individual and can not be dictated to any group without failing.

So if you find yourself not quite fitting into that adds portrayal of a wholesome non-heterosexual, don't lose any sleep over it! Roughly 99.9% of the members on this site don't either.:rolleyes:
But it's just an image! A few snapshots of a story, and not the whole thing. Common ideals are restricted to those snapshots, but life doesn't unfold that way, as we all know. Some of us may cling to ideals, and even be suited to them. But for those who are not suited to them. feel free to shout at your TV/monitor "Fuck you wholesome Nazis!", when told what 'wholesome' & 'normal' is by some add, or whatever.;)

[tenni]

Not showing a bisexual couple is not the same as saying they do not support bisexuality. That was my point. And a victory for homosexuality is not a defeat for bisexuality. I guess since I am not an activist, I just did not get the point for the outrage. I will try to read more closely and fully.

Well not showing a bisexual couple is not saying much. It does say that the company supports bisexuals either. We don't know but any of those couples could have a bisexual in them. There is nothing in the commercial that specifically indicate bisexuality. That is what Bi Invisibility/ Bi Erasure means. We, bisexual do not count and are undeserving of being portrayed in the media commercial.

Even your words about a "couple" does not really factor in that closed loop relationships include more than a couple. They involve a triad. A victory for homosexuals is just that. Clearly there is no co relation to bisexuality. How is that commercial of any worth to bisexuals? It is not a victory for bisexuals. It is ignoring any idea that there are bisexuals in wholesome relationship.

Of course, people need to accept that people living in triad closed loop relationships (not couples) are living in wholesome relationships. Karen do you believe that people living in triad closed loop relationships are wholesome?

[tenni]

Gear
I think that normal for a bisexual is being attracted to both genders. That is it. Simple.

[Gearbox]

Gear
I think that normal for a bisexual is being attracted to both genders. That is it. Simple.
Yes, and no 'abnormal' and unwholesome definitions needed.
I reckon they should get us to star in their next advert.:bigrin: Wadya say?

[tenni]

Gear
I just went back and saw the Ikea commercial. Now that is a good one although it might have been better if the man who comes in the door...walked over and joined them ;) That might be bisexual wholesome..lol

"..and in my experience, personal relationships (not manifesto or demands) are what sell people on the idea of LGBT rights, the fact that there is a "movement" only gives them something to rally around once they've already made up their minds."

Elian
Yes reaching out to touch someone is great. However I am not writing about LGBT rights. I am specially referring to bisexual rights to be acknowledged in commercials. Not gay people. They won that by protest and speaking about equality. That two same sex people together are a wholesome couple. Bisexuals need to be inclusive to our meaning of wholesome.which may include a triad closed loop relationship. There is a role for manifesto if there is to be changed. If you personally reach out in the privacy of your own home to a man or a woman..you've made no change if you are silent and accepting of Bi erasure.

My definition of wholesome includes a triad closed loop relationship. Does your definition include that Elian?

[Ja&Ve]

Tenni, you fight for something that NO ONE is allowed to do, vs trying to get included in what everyone else BUT YOU gets to do (ie pair bonded marriage, regardless of gender). I feel for you, but I doubt it will ever happen. It is just too far outside the societal norm. Pair bonded relationships almost all people understand, even if gender is a sticking point. But more than two and it's starts getting to be too much.

[tenni]

Ja
I see your point. Thirty to forty years ago, many places had same sex activity as illegal , a sin and a mental disorder.

No one was permitted to be a married to a same sex person. It was unnatural.

The argument was that marriage was for men and women not two same sex people. etc. REMEMBER?


Change does not happen by sitting comfortably supporting the status quo.


Do you support only pair bonding be seen as wholesome?


Do you support that a triad closed loop relationship is as wholesome as a couple?

[Ja&Ve]

Ja
I see your point. Thirty to forty years ago, many places had same sex activity as illegal , a sin and a mental disorder.

No one was permitted to be a married to a same sex person. It was unnatural.

The argument was that marriage was for men and women not two same sex people. etc. REMEMBER?


Change does not happen by sitting comfortably supporting the status quo.


Do you support only pair bonding be seen as wholesome?


Do you support that a triad closed loop relationship is as wholesome as a couple?


Honestly, don't know. It's not our realm of experience and something vehemently not wanted in our own relationship.

However, we dont see same sex contact between two consenting adults as something that is wrong or should be illegal (again, pair bonding, regardless of gender is fine by me, and I see as perfectly good and natural).

Maybe if as a culture, triads were the norm throughout history then there wouldn't be an issue, but if they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation. There likely is a good reason as to why they are not. But we are not so wise as to assume to know.

[elian]

Elian[/COLOR]
Yes reaching out to touch someone is great. However I am not writing about LGBT rights. I am specially referring to bisexual rights to be acknowledged in commercials. Not gay people. They won that by protest and speaking about equality. That two same sex people together are a wholesome couple. Bisexuals need to be inclusive to our meaning of wholesome.which may include a triad closed loop relationship. There is a role for manifesto if there is to be changed. If you personally reach out in the privacy of your own home to a man or a woman..you've made no change if you are silent and accepting of Bi erasure.

My definition of wholesome includes a triad closed loop relationship. Does your definition include that Elian?

In other forum topics I have said that if each partner has an equal say, if it is done honestly/openly (none are abused unless they want to be) and if there are enough resources to support a large family then I would support a poly relationship.

Ad companies sell advertising in a variety of media so one could conceivably generate their OWN advertisement for bisexual rights if that is what you desire, it could even be done on youtube for free..but do be careful - my one long time friend donated money to finance an ad that was misunderstood and as a result received very poorly within the community. It wrecked whatever good will his organization was trying to promote (supply of which was thin to start with).

The banned IKEA commericals are hilarious and brilliant - good at attracting attention vs. the incredibly stupid advertisements in mainstream media here..

This one is also sort of fun, and includes bisexual elements..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vvQrkHwKgM

[karen_t70]

Karen do you believe that people living in triad closed loop relationships are wholesome?
I believe that any person or persons in a loving relationship where they look out for the relationship is wholesome. Again, I do not see how a commercial that does not encompass every possible type of relationship is anti any possible relationship. And now that I have said that, I will move on and read and reply to other posts, as this relationship is not wholesome for me.