I am a man with a uterus...Intersex child?

[Polar Bear]

I'm not a huge poster but I felt the need to open up about a condition I have. After a recent cat scan, it was determined that I possessed a uterus. I also believe a have what's known as ovotestes or a combination of ovaries & testicles. This is interesting to me because I suspect that I was born an intersex child with ambiguous genitalia. I also suspect that doctors constructed a penis so that I would be raised a male. Chromosome tests came back XY. I have several surgical scars from procedures in my lower abdomen, scars on my penis, undescended testicles (ovotestes are unable to descend) and a urethra underneath the penis (known as
hypospadias). As a result, my penis has a 90 degree bend. My reasons for posting in this forum center on the need to research intersex conditions and connect with others who suspect they were born as an intersex child. How does this play into my bisexuality? Does this play a part in transgender people? Any thoughts? I will include my contact info for those wishing to be discreet.

John Benedict
jebenedict@yahoo.com

[void()]

I'm not a huge poster but I felt the need to open up about a condition I have. After a recent cat scan, it was determined that I possessed a uterus. I also believe a have what's known as ovotestes or a combination of ovaries & testicles. This is interesting to me because I suspect that I was born an intersex child with ambiguous genitalia. I also suspect that doctors constructed a penis so that I would be raised a male. Chromosome tests came back XY. I have several surgical scars from procedures in my lower abdomen, scars on my penis, undescended testicles (ovotestes are unable to descend) and a urethra underneath the penis (known as
hypospadias)
. As a result, my penis has a 90 degree bend. My reasons for posting in this forum center on the need to research intersex conditions and connect with others who suspect they were born as an intersex child. How does this play into my bisexuality? Does this play a part in transgender people? Any thoughts? I will include my contact info for those wishing to be discreet.

John Benedict
jebenedict@yahoo.com

I honestly could not fathom how it would, or would not effect being bisexual.
That is not to say I could not, not imagine that such would not play a role in it.
Merely not sure as I have no related experience. Yes, I had testicles lowered at
young age because of KS. Beyond that afia, I was born male without doubt.

You may want to talk with MarieDelta as regards transgender issues. She is not
the lone butterfly on the site, merely one whom leaps to mind presently. :) I am sure
some butterflies would be willing to talk openly, or privately with you. Please though
be respectful, it seems you are here. Sometimes I stand in as big brother for folks.
*chuckles* Not sure why but .... :) Well, run 'er slow. *hugs and wanders back to camp*

[Polar Bear]

You may want to talk with MarieDelta as regards transgender issues. She is not
the lone butterfly on the site, merely one whom leaps to mind presently. :) I am sure
some butterflies would be willing to talk openly, or privately with you. Please though
be respectful, it seems you are here. Sometimes I stand in as big brother for folks.
*chuckles* Not sure why but .... :) Well, run 'er slow. *hugs and wanders back to camp*

I've been around a long time. I've never disrespected anyone in this group. Would you be my big brother too! :rolleyes:

[elian]

I don't know any intersex people so I hope you don't mind my curiousity - does it cause you any sort of physical discomfort? As long as your health isn't jeopardized I think it's kind of neat. Do you prefer a particular gender? From your post it sounds like you identify as male. Are you attracted to a particular gender?

Like void I tend to think that who a particular person is attracted to physically and/or emotionally may not correlate to their biological sex.

As I understand it there are some folks for whom the concept of a binary gender is outdated - LGBT is now something more along the lines of a long litany of alphabet soup.

I guess you are now looking at things and maybe questioning the circumstances, why they did what they did, etc.

I always find comfort in knowing that regardless of our circumstances each one of us is worthy of love and respect as much as any part of creation.

[Polar Bear]

I don't know any intersex people so I hope you don't mind my curiousity - does it cause you any sort of physical discomfort? As long as your health isn't jeopardized I think it's kind of neat. Do you prefer a particular gender? From your post it sounds like you identify as male. Are you attracted to a particular gender?

Like void I tend to think that who a particular person is attracted to physically and/or emotionally may not correlate to their biological sex.

As I understand it there are some folks for whom the concept of a binary gender is outdated - LGBT is now something more along the lines of a long litany of alphabet soup.

I guess you are now looking at things and maybe questioning the circumstances, why they did what they did, etc.

I always find comfort in knowing that regardless of our circumstances each one of us is worthy of love and respect as much as any part of creation.

There are a few physical things causing discomfort. There is also a higher risk of testicle cancer so I am being proactive and seeking medical advice to mitigate future issues. As for identity, I've always identified as a male. Sexually, I am attracted to person regardless of gender. I've been with both male and female and enjoy them both.

[Realist]

There is a well-known female member, here, who has had a long-term relationship with an intersexed person. I don't want to speak for her, but I bet she will see this post and respond to you. I hope you and she can have a dialog regarding your questions.

I have always been fascinated wih this subject, because a friend was married to an intersexed female years ago. They felt confidant that the only reason she was not mutilated (soon after being born) was, she was born at home. Her parents recorded her birth in the family Bible and that was it! I think she was 18, or 19, when she finally got a birth certificate...they said that was a complicated process.

Although ignorant and poor, her parents never tried to mold her toward one gender, or he other. They thought it would be best for their "daughter" to decide on her own what and who she wanted to be. And, she grew up thinking she was a "normal" girl.

Although feminie-looking and shapely, with a definitely feminine figure, the only difference was, her genitalia. Of course, I never saw her nude, but was told that she had both male and female genitalia. They both could function, but she was sterile. I understand some are fertile, though.

Anyway, I hope you will find a knowledgeable person to discuss this with, in a polite and intelligent manner.

[void()]

I've been around a long time. I've never disrespected anyone in this group. Would you be my big brother too! :rolleyes:

Oh no, not another one! *chuckles* Yes, I can be. You'll find me around at different times, in different strengths, here. :)
*hugs again* Now be off with you. Go pester the rest of the little brothers by asking why. *snickers*

[Gearbox]

This is interesting to me because I suspect that I was born an intersex child with ambiguous genitalia. I also suspect that doctors constructed a penis so that I would be raised a male.
I'm really sorry to hear that. Not about being intersex, but not being told about it. Did you get a cat scan coz you suspected that you were intersex, or did you find out accidentally?
I imagine that must be a huge blow in itself, besides how it affects your sexuality and/or gender identity.
Were you offered any counseling for this?

[Polar Bear]

I'm really sorry to hear that. Not about being intersex, but not being told about it. Did you get a cat scan coz you suspected that you were intersex, or did you find out accidentally?
I imagine that must be a huge blow in itself, besides how it affects your sexuality and/or gender identity.
Were you offered any counseling for this?

It was found during a cat scan for infection. They walked into my hospital room and said "guess what? You have a uterus" then walked out. No counseling, no suggestions, no medical advise...just have a good day.

[Long Duck Dong]

that sounds like the NZ health system, jebenedict

I was born with XY chromosomes but my Y is almost a X so I come under the class of intersex.....we can cover the XY, XXY, XXXY, XYY and XYY aspect of chromosonal aspects amongst others.

our intersex aspect may or may not be a aspect of our bisexuality, there is really no way to tell and medical science can not give us a answer on that....

we can be born with or without visible aspects to our biological identity and it is not uncommon for intersex people to go most of their lives without knowing how unique we are until something shows up in a medical scan or test. I spent years being tested like a lab rat because of the intersex aspects on my own body and mind but due to the lack of understanding of intersex people, it was hard for the medical profession to really understand how we work

most of us are born infertile but sexually functional and those of us that have the ovatestes can be prone to cancer of the ovatestes, its why most intersex people have them removed now. intersex are not as prone to cancer of the uterus and cervix as non intersex females for some reason... but we can be very prone to the hormonal changes of both genders....
intersex people can also be prone to period pain and hormonal monthly swings which is interesting in a male.....

now for the fun part.... the trans community claim us as trans tho we are not trans people and as normal, there are trans people that want to disassociate us from the trans community so its a case of we really do not get a answer in it as individuals but we get the blame for the conflict between other groups.... there are intersex groups that associate and do not associate with trans groups so its a case of decide who you stand with and then get ready for the backlash from the people that do not want you as part of their identity umbrella and those that are not happy if you do not stand under their umbrella

I am a intersex medical enigma, I have the chromosonal aspect, my skin, bone structure and mental states are all a mixture of both male and female, I can not take most meds if they are sex specific ( estogen and testorone based meds are definately a no no because my body and mind goes nuts ) my brain is basically blended.... I have dysthimia ( a form of depression ) anhedonia ( incorrectly diagnosed as asexual nature and later found to be a common aspect of dysthimia ) and the constantly mental and hormonal shift between a female and male aspect ( blood tests like a vampire convention )

that aside, I am classed as a male that is pansexual ( bisexual ) and intersex.... I tend to believe that the bisexuality is enhanced by the intersex aspects rather than created by the intersex aspect tho it is very possible that the intersex can play a part in the sexual attraction and drive of people ( assumptions because of no supporting medical evidence for or against )

because our bisexuality is a part of us as well as our intersex nature... this place is a home to us, we are bisexuals and belong here, our intersex nature doesn't exclude us or mean that we should not be posting here about this aspect of who we are and how it can be a part of our bisexuality and because it is nice to know that we are not alone......

depending on where you are in the world and your type of intersex nature, you can be a goddess amongst women and desired by men and women or a oddity for the medical profession to poke and prod and so some groups are not really support groups as much as they are slobber and shag groups, tho there are support groups out there for intersex so its a case of looking around...... and hoping for the best.....

in NZ, there is really no support for us unless we want to fit into a group like the trans, and while they are lovely people, we are also intersex and in many ways, very different to a person that wants to change to the opposite gender and sex, as we are often born as both genders and sex...

[liberlib]

Thank you Long Duck!

I am not myself intersexed but, nevertheless,your explanation means a lot to me. I'm on this site because I learned of the existence of intersex individuals and some of the issues in an accident when I got to read some rare medical reports of the condition. It blew me away in that it made me aware that God is more interesting in his plans and creation than traditional doctrine will admit. I could get wordy about how that has affected me and my choices but I'll keep it brief and just state your explanation met a big gap and frustration I have had not feeling like I had heard the full story of what it would be like to be born that way. All the stories I have read have been in the voice of someone trying to change and establish a standard recognized sexual identity--be a member of a particular group--rather than living with the condition as themselves. The other stories were probably valid, although sometimes sensationalized, since most were stories of individuals struggles with finding a balance but they all tend to be stories of trying to change into something else.

[Polar Bear]

LDD, Thank you for your well written and thoughtful reply. It gives me a lot to consider. I went to the doctor today for a Cat scan and an MRI. We are going to get to the bottom of this mystery.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Daaaamn Hon. They just sprang that on you and didnt say anything else?? Asshats....Can you not ask a family member if you had had reconstructive surgery? Had this been kept from you all of your life?
Thats as bad as me finding out that I have more male hormones than female, and was told that its a Wonder that I was able to have 3 kids. I look like a woman, think like a man, and at times have a man attitude. lol
As long as the female organs arent being a bother, or major health threat (Especially after all these years) then I wouldnt worry too much. Just be the you that you are, and go from there.. :} And, on a teasing note: This explains the bout of wanting/needing/craving copious amounts of chocolate once a month, and sudden urges to eat buttery salty popcorn during the occasional chick flick..:} Snicker.
Hugs Hon..
Cat, being silly.

[curious44]

What a fascinating thread! I always just figured there were obscure people born with ambiguous genitals called hermaphrodites. The subject rarely came up and I never knew of any so I never gave it much thought. Then I read this thread yesterday, became curious and spent over two hours leaning much more. The internet holds so much information. It appears awareness has progressed quite a bit in the last few decades. It's interesting that some countries now recognize a third sex for things like birth certificates and passports. I read Germany was the first European country to do so. I never knew there were various degrees of this condition as some of you have pointed out. It's a shame that genital surgery was so often done as a way to "correct" it. There are even set standards for determining at birth if an infant's clitoris is "too big" or its penis "too small". We thankfully seem to be coming more enlightened.

[Polar Bear]

What a fascinating thread! I always just figured there were obscure people born with ambiguous genitals called hermaphrodites. The subject rarely came up and I never knew of any so I never gave it much thought. Then I read this thread yesterday, became curious and spent over two hours leaning much more. The internet holds so much information. It appears awareness has progressed quite a bit in the last few decades. It's interesting that some countries now recognize a third sex for things like birth certificates and passports. I read Germany was the first European country to do so. I never knew there were various degrees of this condition as some of you have pointed out. It's a shame that genital surgery was so often done as a way to "correct" it. There are even set standards for determining at birth if an infant's clitoris is "too big" or its penis "too small". We thankfully seem to be coming more enlightened.

This is an interesting subject. I wish I wasn't part of the subject matter...This is a picture of an actual intersex tool used to determine gender at a young age.

23366

[Polar Bear]

...The following was gleaned from Wikipedia.com: A gonadectomy (also referred to as "orchiectomy") is the removal of the gonads. This is done in three circumstances. (1) If the gonads are dysgenetic testes or streak gonads and at least some of the boy's cells have a Y chromosome, the gonads or streaks must be removed because they are nonfunctional but have a relatively high risk of developing gonadoblastoma. (2) In rare instances when an XX child has completely virilizing congenital adrenal hyperplasia (Prader stage 5), the ovaries can be removed before puberty to stop breast development and/or menstruation. (3) Gonadectomy can be performed in the equally rare instance of a child with true hermaphrodite virilized enough to raise as male, in which ovaries or ovotestes can be removed.
Potential problems: Gonadectomy involves little risk beyond that of any abdominal surgery.

Chordee release is the cutting of ventral penile skin and connective tissue to free and straighten the penis. A mild chordee, manifest as a well-formed penis "bent" downward by subcutaneous connective tissue, may be an isolated birth defect easily repaired by releasing some of the inelastic connective tissue on the ventral side of the shaft. In a complete chordee the phallus is "tethered" downward to the perineum by skin. A more severe chordee is often accompanied by a hypospadias and sometimes by severe undervirilization: a perineal "pseudovaginal pouch" and bifid ("split") scrotum with an undersized penis. This combination, referred to as pseudovaginal perineoscrotal hypospadias, is in the spectrum of ambiguous genitalia due to a number of conditions.

Exactly which of these surgeries are in my immediate future remains to be seen. Orchiectomy is a definite. Not if, but when. I am an intersex child. Now in my 50's I find myself in the midst of correcting a medical mistake made 55 years ago.

[Polar Bear]

Wow, what a mind blower...I just got off the phone with my mother. She confirmed that I was born with ambiguous genitalia. They (the doctors) gender assigned me as a male. But, I was born a female complete with a uterus and ovaries or in my case ovotestis which is a combination of ovarian & testicular tissue. This confirms my earlier hypothesis that I was an intersex child. I am indeed an intersex person. Unfortunately, I am now experiencing complications that assure the need for surgery to remove some of the female parts sooner than later. The ovotestis are inflamed and in danger of becoming cancerous. The research continues.

23369

[rickoyler1969]

Sounds to me like your mother & the doctors were just guessing when you were younger. I agree with you there needs to be some more research done in cases just like yours to determine which way to go that would be the best solution for that child later in life !!!!!! Maybe waiting until they are teen-age would be the right way to go. There are no easy answers in cases like this !!!

[curious44]

I'm tring to epond but this damn thing wont let me copy from Wrd & paste here. frustrating!!!!! WTF!!

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I'm sure your parents had to make a difficult decision to assure you a great life, Hon. Can you imagine how hard it was on them? having to keep that secret for all of these years? My heart goes out to them for their courage and love for you..:} They should have told you, but back then, such things were talked about as openly and honestly as we can now. They made the best choice for you that they could to make sure your life was as normal as possible. Spirits bless them for that. :}

I have a very dear friend, and childhood lover, who wasnt so lucky. Her parents were so embarrassed and ashamed of her that they were convinced that they had been punished by God for their child being born with both genitalia....She was always humliated, looked down upon because she was different. Her own Mother would make her dress in the most down-trodden and plain clothes that she could muster, simply because she felt her daughter didnt deserve better. She was made to feel bad about herself because she "Wasnt right". She never told her only child that she was beautiful, or special, and never received affection or touching from her parents at all.They were cold to her as best. It used to anger me the way her Father looked at her; like she was something vile to be looked at in total disgust. Used to hurt my heart to witness this. Her Mother spoke to her in clipped tight sentences. Being Mormon should have never had anything to do with that factor, but it did..:( They had no idea how beautiful their girl was...even with the plaining down they did to her. Long natural dark red hair, pretty eyes, and that all over creamy skin. And they never knew how talented she actually was. Too bad they never knew Her. Their loss in my personal opinion.

All of this BS this had a horrible effect on her self-esteem and self-confidence for many years, until she broke away from that bunch of fanatics. Today, she is a fashion designer, and is as beautiful now as when we were kids. We had the great fortune to reunite after many, many years, and still see each other whenever we can. All of her pretty parts still work beautifully, even tho at our age the libido does slip now and again, but that's ok too..:} On the time when everything is in working order..its all good..lol
Chin up, Sweetie. And have the surgery to help your life. If it gives you a better chance, then go for it whole heartedly. And please dont blame your folks, They did the best they could to make you have the best life possible.
Hugs Honey..:}
Cat

[Polar Bear]

I'm sure your parents had to make a difficult decision to assure you a great life, Hon. Can you imagine how hard it was on them? having to keep that secret for all of these years? My heart goes out to them for their courage and love for you..:} They should have told you, but back then, such things were talked about as openly and honestly as we can now. They made the best choice for you that they could to make sure your life was as normal as possible. Spirits bless them for that. :}

I have a very dear friend, and childhood lover, who wasnt so lucky. Her parents were so embarrassed and ashamed of her that they were convinced that they had been punished by God for their child being born with both genitalia....She was always humliated, looked down upon because she was different. Her own Mother would make her dress in the most down-trodden and plain clothes that she could muster, simply because she felt her daughter didnt deserve better. She was made to feel bad about herself because she "Wasnt right". She never told her only child that she was beautiful, or special, and never received affection or touching from her parents at all.They were cold to her as best. It used to anger me the way her Father looked at her; like she was something vile to be looked at in total disgust. Used to hurt my heart to witness this. Her Mother spoke to her in clipped tight sentences. Being Mormon should have never had anything to do with that factor, but it did..:( They had no idea how beautiful their girl was...even with the plaining down they did to her. Long natural dark red hair, pretty eyes, and that all over creamy skin. And they never knew how talented she actually was. Too bad they never knew Her. Their loss in my personal opinion.

All of this BS this had a horrible effect on her self-esteem and self-confidence for many years, until she broke away from that bunch of fanatics. Today, she is a fashion designer, and is as beautiful now as when we were kids. We had the great fortune to reunite after many, many years, and still see each other whenever we can. All of her pretty parts still work beautifully, even tho at our age the libido does slip now and again, but that's ok too..:} On the time when everything is in working order..its all good..lol
Chin up, Sweetie. And have the surgery to help your life. If it gives you a better chance, then go for it whole heartedly. And please dont blame your folks, They did the best they could to make you have the best life possible.
Hugs Honey..:}
Cat

According to my mom, they didn't give her the benefit of consulting her about any of this. They took me from her, told her I had ambiguous genitalia and said they were going to do some tests. What they actually did was build a crude penis. and gave me back to her several days later and told her I was a boy. They told her they were trying to get my testicles to drop. They never told her they couldn't drop because they were ovotestis. I don't blame my mom, I feel for her because she is very upset (to tears). She is 75 years old, she doesn't need this stress in her life. She did say that she always felt something was wrong. She felt that they never told her everything. What I did was confirm her fears.

[void()]

* reads too many words which get in the way. instead hugs jebenedict, moves along *

From a big brother, do not let anyone say you lack courage.

[Polar Bear]

* reads too many words which get in the way. instead hugs jebenedict, moves along *

From a big brother, do not let anyone say you lack courage.

Thanks bro!

[elian]

Believe me, it does bother me when it seems as though the medical profession plays God but back then those people were doing what they thought was the right thing and they weren't acting out of maliciousness. I regret that such things had such a strong taboo - they may have made a mistake (actually since you are XY and you identify as male, maybe not). They may not have had the same medical imaging technology back then..

Regardless of your outward appearance you are a good person who is loved and loving - there should be no shame, no anger and no disappointment in that. On the inside, you are still the person your mother has always known - that hasn't changed..


I don't blame my mom, I feel for her because she is very upset (to tears). She is 75 years old, she doesn't need this stress in her life. She did say that she always felt something was wrong. She felt that they never told her everything. What I did was confirm her fears.

..thank you for allowing me an opportunity to reaffirm the worth of each person because frankly today I have been doubting my own self worth as well.

I redacted all of my "divine" references from this message because I didn't realize you were an Atheist, I think there's still enough material to prove the point..mainly that we should be loved for who we truly are, not who we think we ought to be. My personal belief is that divine love transcends the physical limitations of our bodies.

[void()]

Believe me, it does bother me when it seems as though the medical profession plays God but back then those people were doing what they thought was the right thing and they weren't acting out of maliciousness. I regret that such things had such a strong taboo - they may have made a mistake (actually since you are XY and you identify as male, maybe not). They may not have had the same medical imaging technology back then..

Regardless of your outward appearance you are a good person who is loved and loving - there should be no shame, no anger and no disappointment in that. On the inside, you are still the person your mother has always known - that hasn't changed..



..thank you for allowing me an opportunity to reaffirm the worth of each person because frankly today I have been doubting my own self worth as well.

I redacted all of my "divine" references from this message because I didn't realize you were an Atheist, I think there's still enough material to prove the point..mainly that we should be loved for who we truly are, not who we think we ought to be. My personal belief is that divine love transcends the physical limitations of our bodies.

*chuckles*

Not all atheists are hard militants. Some even accept the possibility of spirits, beyond the keen of science.
At least this one *points to self* does. It is great if science can explain away most things with reasoning.
But admittedly there are things which science runs into it can't explain, either not yet, or something immutable
to reason.

Me and you have spoken about realizing the existence of evil, and good. There is proof for both existing scientific
and other proof. Science explains love as chemical reactions but I feel there is more to it. imho love as hate are
forces of nature, like rivers, hurricanes, earthquakes. You can only be humbled by them and know that yes, there
might be a scientific explanation, but they can be well beyond it as well. Then, I am only speaking of my experience
and _not all_ atheists. I may be a weirdo, in fact each day I am told so. *chuckles*

[Polar Bear]

*chuckles*

Not all atheists are hard militants. Some even accept the possibility of spirits, beyond the keen of science.
At least this one *points to self* does. It is great if science can explain away most things with reasoning.
But admittedly there are things which science runs into it can't explain, either not yet, or something immutable
to reason.

Me and you have spoken about realizing the existence of evil, and good. There is proof for both existing scientific
and other proof. Science explains love as chemical reactions but I feel there is more to it. imho love as hate are
forces of nature, like rivers, hurricanes, earthquakes. You can only be humbled by them and know that yes, there
might be a scientific explanation, but they can be well beyond it as well. Then, I am only speaking of my experience
and _not all_ atheists. I may be a weirdo, in fact each day I am told so. *chuckles*

My big (adopted) brother has spoken!

[elian]

Yes, I know that there is a continuum of spiritual belief just as there is a continuum of sexual thought. Very few things in nature are truly black and white.

I have always been fascinated by the interaction of people, technology and society throughout history. I think it's great when science can explain something about how our world works and I lament that most people would much rather be "entertained" rather than "educated" these days.

Conversely I have seen so many "strange coincidences" in my life that I know that I leave open the possibility that there is more to existence than perhaps we can measure with current instruments right now. I have also seen scientists so focused on a specific goal that they neglect to look at the big picture of how things interact with each other in the wider world.

Some people have faith in a divine force, some people have faith in logic and reason, some people have faith in humanity and the natural order of things – I seem to cross paths with all of these lines interchangeably. My personal experiences in this life have caused me to realize that in fact – all three lines of belief not only coexist together, but reinforce the existence of each other.

This place is the manifestation of consceiousness expressing itself in its many forms. You are a very small, but very beautiful part of that creation. And together we weave a tapestry, a story, and a way for the universe to grow.

In any event, it was never my intent to hide anything, but I also didn't want to preach at you if you weren't into that sort of thing..

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Well Darlin, you hug your Mom the next time you see her..Ok? And receive a big hug to You too. Just be You, and go from there..:}
Cat

[12voltyV2.0]

It was found during a cat scan for infection. They walked into my hospital room and said "guess what? You have a uterus" then walked out. No counseling, no suggestions, no medical advise...just have a good day.

That is amazing that the medical people treating you handled it that way--you'd think at the very least, they would have referred you to speak to some medical or mental health person with knowledge of this area of health to provide at least a modicum of information and advice.

I wish you all the best in dealing with the physical and mental health aspects that learning this information bring up. At least, you now know the reasons for some of the health issues you probably had when you were younger and at least now----they can be, HOPEFULLY, be dealt with more appropriately from now on.

[tenni]

Hi Jeb
With regard to how they treated you as a baby and what they told your mother, I wonder if that is all that they understood about the situation at that time? I had read and seen documentaries about this phenomenia and it seems to have been an arbitrary decision as the scientific information, testing procedures were no where near as refined as today. What they did to you was the medical philosophy of that era and is no longer the process today as I understand. I hope that your surgery is very successful when you decide to move forward. I do have to think that over time you will be looking back at your life and filling in some blanks that may have been a question at various points. I'm sure that we all wish you well.

[Polar Bear]

Thank everyone for their thoughtful words. In the 1950's, the medical profession was of the mindset that telling a parent or child of their ambiguous genitalia and gender assignment surgery was "bad practice" and should be avoided. My issue with this stems from my new found dis-trust of the medical profession. How am I supposed to trust my doctor to tell me the truth about anything. I've been lied to all my life. 55 years of lies. They purposely ignored my questions. They prevented other doctors from finding out the truth. They "lost" my records. I find myself trying to figure out who I can hold responsible for this. The only one I can come up with is myself. How can I fix that?

[void()]

I find myself trying to figure out who I can hold responsible for this. The only one I can come up with is myself. How can I fix that?

I think following the path you're on, difficult as it may prove, will
lead you to in your words "fixing" things. Happiness is a fleeting
butterfly. Sometimes that butterfly may pause in flight, nestle with
you. And often we all miss this subtle gesture of a loving cosmos. By
then, the butterfly has taken upon wings again.

In short and without sounding like Yoda, follow where this path goes.
Be aware that happiness is an ever moving target, be mindful of when
you are happy, embrace and enjoy that happiness. You are accepting
responsibility. Accept too, living in the eternal Now. The past is past
and never lasts, the future comes to fast, all we can give is this
present. :)

Darn, I keep sounding like Yoda. And I'm truly nowhere as near together
as appearances present. Maybe, I am but don't feel the butterfly
perching on my shoulder. They have such delicate and light feet.

[Polar Bear]

Just for the record, my genitalia does not define me. This is contrary to so many people I've met here on this site. So many accomplishments define me in spite of my intersex or DSD (Disorders of sex development (http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/dsd.htm)). I've earned the love of a wonderful woman, 4 college degrees, and I'm working toward 2 more. I will not allow this to bring me down. I will get answers, and then I will take steps to preserve my health. I will support others who need the kind of support I wish I had when I was growing up. Laura, (my wife) with you by my side, the world is at my feet!

If you would like further information on DSD, go to the following website: http://www.accordalliance.org/


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EGm7rpJFEz4/Ut64_IVMIgI/AAAAAAAAAl0/QTfWVe7jpvc/s1600/intersex+symbol.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EGm7rpJFEz4/Ut64_IVMIgI/AAAAAAAAAl0/QTfWVe7jpvc/s1600/intersex+symbol.jpg)

[elian]

I find myself trying to figure out who I can hold responsible for this. The only one I can come up with is myself. How can I fix that?

I am glad that you find strength in your identity. It seems that a combination of things caused your current situation. Genetics, social pressure, institutional bias, personal identity and experience are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I am glad that you were able to list so many wonderful things you can be grateful for in your life; it is important to balance these against the disappointments. The important thing isn't always success or failure, but rather the experience that comes through trying.

Institutions are made up of people, and just like people they can be fallible. Maybe you can find a nice specialist who is trained to deal with this sort of thing because quite frankly it sounds as though the medical staff you are seeing right now are not. Was it an actual doctor who gave you this "diagnosis" or a lab tech?

I know here in PA some doctors are afraid to say too much for fear of being sued..frankly I'm sure you'll have a follow-up with your doctor right? ..and at that time I would be honest.

Maybe you can find a group of like-minded folks who are willing to explain your concerns to the medical establishment..things seem to be changing so fast in terms of LGBT rights..compared to even 10 or 20 years ago the issue of sexuality and gender seems to be a lot more open than it used to be.

[void()]

Just for the record, my genitalia does not define me. This is contrary to so many people I've met here on this site.

Even little brothers are teachers. In humility I thank you. Your words were not aimed nor specific.
Still, it is no great feat to reflect upon one's own life. Thank you for the reminder. :)

[Polar Bear]

As promised, here are the results of my cat scan and lab: I have a blind-ended uterus. This means there is no vaginal canal or cervix. I have no recognizable testicles or ovaries. The cat scan did not identify the source of my localized pain. The lab revealed very little. My testosterone level is extremely low. My estrogen level is incomplete. My progesterone levels are very low. So, the bottom line? Inconclusive! My next stop is an endocrinologist. I will also be consulting with a surgeon as well. The only solid conclusion to all this is that I am an intersex person.

[Long Duck Dong]

nods.... enuf of the hormones within your body to maintain at the minimal level but also at a level where they counterbalance each other.....

the testorone is male, estrogen is female and progesterone is both, its present in males and females tho its low in young females and males, only really starting to make a impression in a premenstrual female, so there are definate signs of a intersex hormonal balance within you and it remains to be seen what they decide to do.....if they want to artificially boost your testorone levels.....or monitor you for a short term with blood tests to see if any medical changes are needed or optional

progesterone has some good effects on smokers and nicotine addiction which is something that surfaces with me when i am dealing with depression, I am more likely to reduce smoking and that has been semi linked to a increase in the progesterone levels in my blood.... and the other aspect of progesterone is its ability to limit and reduce the effects of brain damage from injury or strokes.....

couple that with the effect of progesterone on depressive disorders, skin, bone, fat cell proportions, muscle density and strength...... the same aspects i have as a result of my own intersex nature and yes we are very diverse medically.... and very resilient individuals.......

so yeah... its fun isn't it.... you can be a intersex person and not really male or female but male or female enuf to satisfy partners and be a male without question....and I have to admit, you are handling this quite well....

[void()]

My testosterone level is extremely low. So, the
bottom line? Inconclusive!

*laughing inward very loudly, not at you but hopefully with you*

Join the club, the Inconclusive/s that is. We fool with medical science,
befuddle psychological science. We dare to simply be!

The results of a disabilities hearing for me were ruled "inconclusive"
as most of the psychology diagnoses involved the moniker "NOS". Wife
looked it up. It means simply, Not Otherwise Specified. This in the
context means that they know I'm bonkers, just not bonkers in any way
they can exactly pin point.

The physician at the hear also told the advocate she could only offer a
NOS diagnoses as well. I have general arthritis which while not being
rheumatoid, can still hurt enough to be debilitating. There are other
things physically, wiring in my brain is not quite up to par but no one
can sort how it is off kilter.

So yeah, welcome to club Inconclusive little brother. "Wonder twin
powers activate! Form of a table leg!" ;) :) :D

N.B. Forgot to mention, in December the endocrinologist was mad at me.
I had forgotten to rub on the _Brand_ testosterone gel a few days out
of the month. We erred on the side of caution, I didn't apply after
realizing I forgot.

Doctor said no matter, once every 24, no excuses. My level was reading
700, she said the "normal" would have been 1100 or more. And the
"normal" in this case was just meant as one under "treatment". Normal
range is actually something like 50,000 or so. I think that's micro
parts per million or such. Not a doctor so not really sure.

Been discussion of Lithium for me. Been dodging it as long as able.
I fear becoming a "Stepford" person. Don't want that. Repeat,
DON'T WANT. Though recently I'm given to consider it, maybe talk
it over w/ therapist.

[void()]

Most Atheists are just as bad and as hypocritical as Fundamentalists of all sort of religions including Paganism/Wicca.

My name is not Most. Have a good one. :)

[Polar Bear]

You're a hermaprodite. That sucks that your urethra and penis are all fucked up but you shouldn't even have a dick. Constructing a fake "penis" does not really solve a lot, and you're not a man since men and people who are actually the male gender and sex do not have ovaries or a uterus. People who are hermaphrodites, "intersex", and/or transgendered are the result of having really horrible genes.well chopping your dick off to make a "vagina" or attempting yet failing to make a "penis" from a cunt doesn't really solve a lot. functional genitals are better than non functional ones from a sex viewpoint,, and the genitals that "intersex" and trans people have are not functioning like real genitals are. Most Atheists are just as bad and as hypocritical as Fundamentalists of all sort of religions including Paganism/Wicca.

<sniff> <sniff> I smell a troll spreading stinky bait. I think I lost a couple of IQ points just reading this gibberish.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsyLrXQn6k9faY9402VwwK9hd6rGUdW 6A8vhU9XoL8zE6Bc8Y0

[Desert Dragon]

Foda se,
I hate to burst your ignorant bubble, but I can personally attest that it does work--very well. John is very much a man, and is fully capable of satisfying a real woman.
Laura
Of course, if he chooses, he is fully capable of satisfying a man as well (or both at the same time).

[Long Duck Dong]

and they still get more sex than you, foda se.......

you are hiding your own personal insecurities behind a forum name in a forum and acting like a child lashing out at the world, but jacking off to hentai doesn't mean that you are not able to have a good and enjoyable sex life with a partner, you just need to learn to be more accepting of the fact that you and the other trolls are very similar to each other and so may I suggest that you look beyond your inability to act in a mature and adult manner, put away the childish behievour and insults...... and go and find somebody that you are not envious and jealous of....... true love can work for you.... and tho you are using shrek as a guide to a good relationship, I would suggest that you be more realistic and look at the other people that are trolling websites for their 15 minutes of forum fame........

I am expecting some clever and witty insult in response from you, but lets be honest... I am a freak of nature, a outcast, somebody that doesn't quite fit in... so save your insults, I have heard them all before..... so if you want to reply with something that may rock my boat, try a intelligent and well thought out rebuttal without insults and swearing as that is more likely to stop me in my tracks and pay more attention to your posts than I have been.... and thats the aim isn't it.... the attention and people reading your posts.....

[void()]

I am a freak of nature, a outcast, somebody that doesn't quite fit in... so save your insults, I have heard them all before....

Ha! Excuse me, I cannot resist. I am going to be racist. <joking racist> LDD, you are a pigeon toed, zebra stripped salamander who had an alpaca goat for a father and your mother was a broken down and frigid polywog. </joking racist> Ha and double ha! I bet you did not realize I could be so racist, or original. *smirking and offering a big hug* It was just hanging there calling my name. *chuckles* You know I mean nothing at all, but hell getting a joke in is worth nothing. *laughs at self making meta-jokes* I need to stop. The lines are getting all wavy. *curls up in a ball in his hammock, rolls away*

[elian]

"In that you harm none, do what you will.."

More or less the one rule of the Wiccan religion, but apparently it only takes one rule to make a difference.

[elian]

Good luck with your medical procedures, the important thing is now that you know what you are facing you have an opportunity to be as healthy as you can be. Attitude makes a big difference and I think you have the right one..

Some people are a lot more comfortable with ambiguity than others.


As promised, here are the results of my cat scan and lab: I have a blind-ended uterus. This means there is no vaginal canal or cervix. I have no recognizable testicles or ovaries. The cat scan did not identify the source of my localized pain. The lab revealed very little. My testosterone level is extremely low. My estrogen level is incomplete. My progesterone levels are very low. So, the bottom line? Inconclusive! My next stop is an endocrinologist. I will also be consulting with a surgeon as well. The only solid conclusion to all this is that I am an intersex person.

[Long Duck Dong]

Ha! Excuse me, I cannot resist. I am going to be racist. <joking racist> LDD, you are a pigeon toed, zebra stripped salamander who had an alpaca goat for a father and your mother was a broken down and frigid polywog. </joking racist> Ha and double ha! I bet you did not realize I could be so racist, or original. *smirking and offering a big hug* It was just hanging there calling my name. *chuckles* You know I mean nothing at all, but hell getting a joke in is worth nothing. *laughs at self making meta-jokes* I need to stop. The lines are getting all wavy. *curls up in a ball in his hammock, rolls away*


lol I read this when I was sitting at the PC with a morning coffee, and it really had me laughing and smiling..... made a awesomely good start to the day....... hugs void cos I can....

[void()]

lol I read this when I was sitting at the PC with a morning coffee, and it really had me laughing and smiling..... made a awesomely good start to the day....... hugs void cos I can....

Glad you got a good laugh. :) But in all seriousness to me, insulting a human
by calling them other animals is race ist, compared to calling them something
for being a different kind of human. If a different kind of human, still human,
the same race. That may not be exactly PC. *shrugs* Don't figure anyone
is perfect.

[Polar Bear]

First, I want to thank Drew for removing the troll that infected our discussion. Secondly, I want everyone to know that I appreciate all the kind words and support offered, especially my loving wife Laura. I will get through this. I do not feel any less of a man than I felt prior to the revealing news. However, I now have a reasonable explanation for the pain and horror I went through as a child. I feel a sense of closure that the things I went through, and the things I will go through are explainable and generally correctable to a point. Yes, folks I am on a mission to see this through. Wish me luck on my journey. Maybe I can offer bits of insight to those like me who also need support, or someone to talk to. On a side thought...does this mean I am a bottom? ;)

[void()]

On a side thought...does this mean I am a bottom? ;)

*tries ignoring this to be serious, fails*

Get over here, we'll find out. *big smirk*

In all seriousness, ... Wait! You want me being serious?

*big huge and warm hug* I am glad you are deciding upon seeing things out. Also glad you choose to
not feel detracted. You have given me a very beautiful example.

I have also taken up something off site. Simply put, I am back to writing. :) You and another
helped inspire me to do that, and no it was not elian. Though he does inspire me in a lot, and
continues to do so. It was not my wife either. It was a stranger whom one could say I bumped
into.

This is what living to offer example is about. Thank you for the reminder. :)

[Long Duck Dong]

First, I want to thank Drew for removing the troll that infected our discussion. Secondly, I want everyone to know that I appreciate all the kind words and support offered, especially my loving wife Laura. I will get through this. I do not feel any less of a man than I felt prior to the revealing news. However, I now have a reasonable explanation for the pain and horror I went through as a child. I feel a sense of closure that the things I went through, and the things I will go through are explainable and generally correctable to a point. Yes, folks I am on a mission to see this through. Wish me luck on my journey. Maybe I can offer bits of insight to those like me who also need support, or someone to talk to. On a side thought...does this mean I am a bottom? ;)


never let the wisdom of your own experiences become a dull light because there is always somebody out there that needs your voice to be their guiding light and inspiration.....

think of it as another few lines in the cv of your life.... and when people * read * that cv * they find a person that has lived a interesting and diverse life.... some of the most boring people I have met, are * normal * people because they have lived a * normal * life.... and to me you are not just another bisexual or just another intersex person.... your marriage, your partner, your discovery, your new understanding of you and your life..... it doesn't make you less than a man, it makes you more of a interesting person with more aspects to you.....

[Polar Bear]

I find it difficult to understand the medical profession. I spent countless resources preparing for my office visit with an Endocrinologist. I had my records sent to her office. My cat scan was forwarded to her office. I did hours of research preparing questions and learning "the language" of her specialty. I even showered before going! We waited 20 minutes to see the doctor. While we waited, I was grilled by the medical assistant. Finally, the doctor arrived and told me that I knew more about my condition than she did. Then she told me she couldn't help me. Apparently the medical schools are not covering anatomy & physiology as they once did. I am seeing a surgeon next week. He has already indicated that he may not be able to help me either.
I am appealing to you, the readers, to help me find the doctor who specializes in Disorders of Sexual Development (DSD) more commonly known as “Intersex”. This was formally known as “true hermaphroditism”. I live in the Las Vegas area so I can see someone within a 300 mile radius if needed. I can also fly to a limited amount of cities if the need presents itself. I have a limited amount of insurance through Aetna & even more limited funds. There is a sense of urgency because I am experiencing a great deal of pain associated with this condition. If you know of anyone who specializes in these conditions, please let me know via the following email, jebenedict@yahoo.com . Thanks for reading!

23980

[Polar Bear]

24001

[DuckiesDarling]

Sorry, JEB, that pic is too cute to use for that twit. :D

[Polar Bear]

UPDATE: Well, what a week. I fought the lab for 3 weeks to get my karyotype results. They came back 46 XY DSD. The ultrasound indicates a smaller than normal prostate which means I and a true hermaphrodite. I have a uterus with suspected streak gonads (or ovaries). Testosterone levels are below 35 NG/DL while estrogen levels are over 142 ng/mL. I have 3 surgeons, gynecologist, urologist, and a general ready to do battle on March 14th. They will be removing the uterus, all gonad tissue, and my gall bladder. They also suspect a hernia is hiding in there somewhere. Once this is complete HRT will need to start assuming I can find an Endocrinologist that have enough balls (no pun intended) to take on the case.

25276

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Best of luck to you, Darlin. May the surgery(s) take care of all the pain and discomfort. As long as it does affect your outsides, the insides shouldnt matter. What's important is that you be pain free, and can have a wonderful life without all of the added bits that you really dont need..:}
Big hugs to you and your lady..:}
Cat.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

PS...Check with Loma Linda University to their various depts, and see if they might take the case if you dont find a surgeon there in Vegas. I worked at Jerry L. Petis Veterans's Hospital, and Loma Linda is one of the best in the state..:}
Good luck Honey.:}
Cat

[Polar Bear]

PS...Check with Loma Linda University to their various depts, and see if they might take the case if you dont find a surgeon there in Vegas. I worked at Jerry L. Petis Veterans's Hospital, and Loma Linda is one of the best in the state..:}
Good luck Honey.:}
Cat

My current plan is to have the surgery, then I will have a medical mandate for HRT. I won't mention the intersex unless they ask. :tongue: