The last legal nail against sex trade workers has been removed

[tenni]

I thought that this had been decided but I guess that it has just reached the Supreme Court. Canada’s present government is socially regressive but our courts still are progressive due to our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This was just announced this morning.

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Canada's top court has struck down three key laws concerning prostitution in Canada, declaring them unconstitutional, disproportionate and overly broad.

In a unanimous 9-0 ruling, the Supreme Court of Canada said the laws prohibiting keeping a brothel, living on the avails of prostitution; and communicating in public for purposes of prostitution "do not pass Charter muster." It said they infringe on the rights of sex workers/ prostitutes by depriving them of "security of the person."
The court noted in its ruling that "the regulation of prostitution is a complex and delicate matter." It added then that it "will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach, reflecting different elements of the existing regime."

The court said that given that the prostitution itself is legal, the three laws made it too difficult for prostitutes to engage in sex work safely.
The court said the laws "do not merely impose conditions on how prostitutes operate. They go a critical step further, by imposing dangerous conditions on prostitution; they prevent people engaged in a risky -- but legal -- activity from taking steps to protect themselves from the risks."

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/top-court-strikes-down-canada-s-overly-broad-anti-prostitution-laws-1.1601790#ixzz2o1tJ80HU

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/top-court-strikes-down-canada-s-overly-broad-anti-prostitution-laws-1.1601790#ixzz2o1shNsYE

What are your thoughts on insuring that sex trade workers have equal rights for safe working conditions?

[Hypersexual11]

This goes along with all of the "morality" laws. I commend your courts on seeing the damage your government's blind conservatism causes. For some reason, an otherwise intelligent person can't see how making a law to protect people will harm them. I wish more leaders could better understand human nature and quit trying to pass laws to stop something that will not stop. Abortion, sex, homosexuality, prostitution, drug use, alcohol use. We have a TON of historical proof that prohibiting humans from being human does not work. There are behaviors that are beyond our control. Leaders should be passing laws that make our inherent self-destructive ways less dangerous, not more. Look at the mess the catholic church is in because it trys to control the sex life of adult men. One small example in myriad attempts to control nature. wtf?

[Top fucker]

LOL so Politically Correct. They're not "sex workers" or "sex trade workers" they're whores, hos, hustlers, and prostitutes. They don't work in the "sex industry" they work at home, in cars, in alleys, in brothels, in "massage" parlors, strip clubs, in front of cameras filming porn and doing sex for pay as a whore/prostitute on the side, and on street corners. The repealing of these laws will not take away the criminal element associated with prostitution like the famiglia, the drug addiction and overdoses, suicides, pimps/madams, forced sexual slavery/sexual trafficking, prostitutes that have horrible things happen to them, and other seedy aspects associated with male and female prostitutes. It won't put a dent in any of it.

[BiMaleAB]

Proper regulation and taxation could really be a benefit for an industry that will always be in demand. I think that legally allowing for solicitation, and things like brothels that would have to comply with regulatory standards, would really make it safer, and help to remove some of the more violent and exploitative aspects of the industry.
Despite Top Fucker's inane commentary, if governments simply recognized that this is a vocation that will always he in demand, and that there are indeed some men and women who honestly pursue employment of their own person for the pleasure of others, the industry could be made a lot safer.

[tenni]

As BiMaleAB points out, the aspect of taxation is one significant factor if you do not place morality in the mix as Top Fucker seems to? (strange for a guy into piss up someone's arse and fisting. His words do indicate that he has morality issues with prostitution imo). Social issues came out as yesterday's Supreme Court decision clearer. Some people were concerned about young people being drawn into prostitution with a drugging aspect to it. This is present in many societies including Canada. The criminal control of prostitution in Canada by the mob would diminish if not vanish if anyone may set up a bawdy house legally. As BiMale points out regulations would /could be created that would /could reduce underage prostitution. Taxes on income derived from prostitution would legally go to the government and not the mob. Prostitution is a big section of criminals / gangs in Canada according to reports. That should disappear if all was legal with regulations. I think that some aspects would remain. More than 60% of Canadians do not want prostitution laws according to a quick poll taken yesterday. Official polling methods will probably follow as Canada moves forward hopefully with healthy and positive attitudes towards sex and commerce.

Whether a conservative government will sit by and let Canada be a country with no prostitution laws on the book is questionable. This is the political party that strongly opposed same sex marriage as vile. The Conservatives has its strongest base with people who support black and white morality issues of which abortion, same sex marriage, more prisons and longer time served are the pillars of their beliefs. This does no line up with permitting no laws of prostitution. Some political observers think that it is possible that the Conservative party/government may try to ban prostitution completely. Whether this will violate the Charter will be determined. The same argument about unsafe working conditions may be use..don't know.

Regulations may be the best approach to deal with the underage prostitute and abuse of women.

On a side note, I find it a bit curious that protests about something being political correct as a means of dismissing outright an issue curious. It seems that some people believe labelling something PC automatically cancels out the social issue? It doesn't. The social problem remains. The fact that a term is commonly used in one country and not in another does mean that there is a difference. If one country is backward thinking with its legislation and yet some of its citizens are arrogant enough to believe that they may dismiss social injustices, that country will continue to fall behind places where freedom and justice exist. Canada is far from perfect but still is moving in a progressive direction hopefully supported by its Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Other societies like the Scandinavian, Holland and New Zealand are also more progressive in their thinking towards the sex industry. The use of language is a powerful tool for oppression or justice. It depends how words are used to support ideas. Ideas are abstraction.

These three laws that were struck down on Friday were very old and out of date with contemporary thinking in Canada.

Where is your country on dealing with sexual freedom and the sex industry? Do criminals control your sex industry? Are the environments safe for your sex trade workers? Is a morality holding your country back from sexual freedoms and justice?

[Top fucker]

LMAO! The criminal or mob element of whores (both female and male) will NOT disappear if brothels open up in Canada. Who do you think actually owns brothels, strip clubs, porn stores, and strip clubs? ;) It's not the people who supposedly do but the mob, and it's been this way for decades. People who are ultra PC are not intelligent and can't think for themselves. ;) If a woman or man wants to be a whore or prostitute that's fine by me as it's their choice; but its not a wise one as I posted before all of that stuff happens and always will be associated with sex for pay. It's silly to call them anything but whores and prostitutes.

[tenni]

Toppie Based upon your posts would you be surprised if people thought that you are a promiscuous whore?

I don't think that you are a sex trade worker though?..are you? You don't charge for your sexual services do you? ;)

All whores are not sex trade workers. In fact, I believe that a difference is that whores give sex away for free while sex trade workers are professional and charge, are tested regularly etc. in societies that regulate the sex trade business. This may include regulating where the sex trade industry may locate as is done in Amsterdam. Have you read recently where the mob is involved in the sex trade in Amsterdam? I know that the government is directly involved. Perhaps the Nevada sex trade industry has a criminal involvement and you are closer to that area than Amsterdam.

As far as your preference for the word prostitute over sex trade worker, that is your choice. Even the word "hooker" applies but both hooker and prostitute are not preferred use of words by the sex trade workers. Canada's media and many politicians, citizens tends to support more forward thinking use of language. It is a matter of respect just as it is polite to call a person Black/African American over Niggar etc. Such words carry so much historical negativity that many do not believe that they belong in a society that supports freedom, equal rights and justice for all. It is your choice as to which type of society that you would like to develop.

[BiMaleAB]

LMAO! The criminal or mob element of whores (both female and male) will NOT disappear if brothels open up in Canada. Who do you think actually owns brothels, strip clubs, porn stores, and strip clubs? ;) It's not the people who supposedly do but the mob, and it's been this way for decades. People who are ultra PC are not intelligent and can't think for themselves. ;) If a woman or man wants to be a whore or prostitute that's fine by me as it's their choice; but its not a wise one as I posted before all of that stuff happens and always will be associated with sex for pay. It's silly to call them anything but whores and prostitutes.

If it is legal and legitimate, then brothels no longer need to be run by criminals. Look at Nevada as a case study, the brothels there are not mob owned.
Look at prohibition as a case study: Liquor sales from 1920 to 1933 in the US were wholly controlled by gangsters; it did not take long for organized crime to get out of the business of selling liquor once it was legal to do so again (unfortunately the 13 or so years where it was illegal made organized crime outfits stronger than ever and they moved on to other things).

fact is, when you have goods and services in high demand and make them illegal, someone is still going to provide them. By being illegal the provision of such goods and services becomes very high risk for the provider and thus and spin off effect becomes violent crime in order to protect territory, keep people quiet etc.

The minute these goods and services become legal you remove this high risk element. Now you can regulate and tax a legitimate business as well which has positivie benefits for the public that outway the negative effects of the vice good or service (gambling, prostitution, narcotics).

TP, you seem to be stuck on the semantics of the issue (what we are calling those employed in the industry) rather than the meat and potatoes of a court ruling in my country that could result in net positive benefits for society.

[Top fucker]

Toppie Based upon your posts would you be surprised if people thought that you are a promiscuous whore? I don't think that you are a sex trade worker though?..are you? You don't charge for your sexual services do you? ;) All whores are not sex trade workers. In fact, I believe that a difference is that whores give sex away for free while sex trade workers are professional and charge, are tested regularly etc. in societies that regulate the sex trade business. This may include regulating where the sex trade industry may locate as is done in Amsterdam. Have you read recently where the mob is involved in the sex trade in Amsterdam? I know that the government is directly involved. Perhaps the Nevada sex trade industry has a criminal involvement and you are closer to that area than Amsterdam. As far as your preference for the word prostitute over sex trade worker, that is your choice. Even the word "hooker" applies but both hooker and prostitute are not preferred use of words by the sex trade workers. Canada's media and many politicians, citizens tends to support more forward thinking use of language. It is a matter of respect just as it is polite to call a person Black/African American over Nigger etc. Such words carry so much historical negativity that many do not believe that they belong in a society that supports freedom, equal rights and justice for all. It is your choice as to which type of society that you would like to develop. So PC! Now you're just making up definitions of words or changing their meaning to suit your agenda.
whore hôr/ noun noun: whore; plural noun: whores 1. a male or female prostitute. verb verb: whore; 3rd person present: whores; past tense: whored; past participle: whored; gerund or present participle: whoring 1. (of a woman or man) work as a prostitute. "she spent her life whoring for dangerous men" synonyms: work as a prostitute, sell one's body, sell oneself, be on the streets "she spent her life whoring" (of a man) use the services of prostitutes. noun: whoring "he lived by night, indulging in his two hobbies, whoring and eating" synonyms: use prostitutes; More archaic wench "the men whored and drank" debase oneself by doing something for unworthy motives, typically to make money. "he had never whored after money" I have met and am friends with whores, prostitutes, and hustlers and they'll freely admit that they're hookers, whores, do sex for pay, and are hustlers/hos. It's not disrespectful to call them a hooker, whore, hustler, callgirl/callboy, hustler/ho, streetwalker, nightwalker, or other terms. These terms for whores and prostitutes are not akin to calling a person a racist word. Even in Amsterdam the brothels there do have a criminal element to them, and yes many of the women and men are trafficked in as sex slaves to work as prostitutes. The Dutch BTW consider Amsterdam and the RLD to be a cesspool. They also do not like the tourists who go to Amsterdam from around the world just to have sex with prostitutes and take drugs.
If it is legal and legitimate, then brothels no longer need to be run by criminals. Look at Nevada as a case study, the brothels there are not mob owned. Look at prohibition as a case study: Liquor sales from 1920 to 1933 in the US were wholly controlled by gangsters; it did not take long for organized crime to get out of the business of selling liquor once it was legal to do so again (unfortunately the 13 or so years where it was illegal made organized crime outfits stronger than ever and they moved on to other things). fact is, when you have goods and services in high demand and make them illegal, someone is still going to provide them. By being illegal the provision of such goods and services becomes very high risk for the provider and thus and spin off effect becomes violent crime in order to protect territory, keep people quiet etc. The minute these goods and services become legal you remove this high risk element. Now you can regulate and tax a legitimate business as well which has positivie benefits for the public that outway the negative effects of the vice good or service (gambling, prostitution, narcotics). TP, you seem to be stuck on the semantics of the issue (what we are calling those employed in the industry) rather than the meat and potatoes of a court ruling in my country that could result in net positive benefits for society. LOL you really think the male and female brothels in Nevada aren't owned by the mafia? Or that they don't get their cut of payment? LMAO! They own the Casinos, and get a lot of payment from those, and yes they do own the brothels but it's been this way for a very long time even longer than before Las Vegas was a city. They run deep both in the United States, Canada, and worldwide.

[tenni]

Interestingly, the Globe and Mail published a law experts ideas on this Supreme Court ruling. It is seen as much broader than just the safety of sex trade workers. On the larger and broader scale. The implication is that governments may not create laws that will put vulnerable people at risk of severe harm or death…. This may have significant implications over the year just as the Supreme Court ruling on abortion created abortion as not a legal matter but a medical matter. There are no Canadian laws on abortion. Time will tell if there are no longer laws on the sex trade.
“Parliament has the power to regulate against nuisances, but not at the cost of the health, safety and lives of prostitutes,” Chief Justice McLachlin said in the ruling.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/reach-of-unanimous-ruling-extends-beyond-prostitution-issue/article16081649/


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Toppie
Interesting about the word "whore" Ok..you are just a slut then? I prefer slut myself…lol

In Canadian venacular, the word "whore" is used for a sexually promiscuous person just as frequently as the word slut. If the people in Arizona want to use the word "hooker' etc. and not sex trade workers that is their business. We, Canadians, may see you as backward hicks but that is ok with you? :)

I'm not surprised to see you state that you hang around sex trade workers.

[BiMaleAB]

So PC! Now you're just making up definitions of words or changing their meaning to suit your agenda. I have met and am friends with whores, prostitutes, and hustlers and they'll freely admit that they're hookers, whores, do sex for pay, and are hustlers/hos. It's not disrespectful to call them a hooker, whore, hustler, callgirl/callboy, hustler/ho, streetwalker, nightwalker, or other terms. These terms for whores and prostitutes are not akin to calling a person a racist word. Even in Amsterdam the brothels there do have a criminal element to them, and yes many of the women and men are trafficked in as sex slaves to work as prostitutes. The Dutch BTW consider Amsterdam and the RLD to be a cesspool. They also do not like the tourists who go to Amsterdam from around the world just to have sex with prostitutes and take drugs. LOL you really think the male and female brothels in Nevada aren't owned by the mafia? Or that they don't get their cut of payment? LMAO! They own the Casinos, and get a lot of payment from those, and yes they do own the brothels but it's been this way for a very long time even longer than before Las Vegas was a city. They run deep both in the United States, Canada, and worldwide.

The first oart of your post is more ridiculous semantics; who gives a shit about your perception about political correctness? You shouting "PC!" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion/debate. "Sex worker" or "whore", who cares, we all know who is being talked about either way.

As to your last paragraph, do youhave any evidence regarding your purported facts regarding nevada brothels and casinos? The vegas mob casinos have largely been replaced (and physically imploded) by large corporations. I know that there is still a vast criminal underworld everywhere, but you are making evidence bearing statements and providing none. Care to provide links to facts and figures supporting your claim? Perhaps some peer reviewed research papers?

You also failed to acknowledge my comparison to liquor and prohibition. Are you going to claim without evidence that most breweries/distilleries are mob owned as well as distribution and retail?

[Top fucker]

The first oart of your post is more ridiculous semantics; who gives a shit about your perception about political correctness? You shouting "PC!" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion/debate. "Sex worker" or "whore", who cares, we all know who is being talked about either way. As to your last paragraph, do youhave any evidence regarding your purported facts regarding nevada brothels and casinos? The vegas mob casinos have largely been replaced (and physically imploded) by large corporations. I know that there is still a vast criminal underworld everywhere, but you are making evidence bearing statements and providing none. Care to provide links to facts and figures supporting your claim? Perhaps some peer reviewed research papers? You also failed to acknowledge my comparison to liquor and prohibition. Are you going to claim without evidence that most breweries/distilleries are mob owned as well as distribution and retail? Casinos in the United States and in other countries are owned by the mob. You might want to believe that the casinos in Vegas are not owned by the mafia but just because you want to believe this does not make it true. They will ALWAYS run casinos in Vegas, Atlantic City, on the East and West Coast, and in other countries. Don't ever doubt it. It's legalized robbery and there is no reason to ever get out of that business. The same goes for how the mob owns and gets money from the porn studios, sex clubs, strip clubs, "massage" parlors where prostitutes work, etc. and even from other ways and places most people would not think about. The hands of the mob run deep.

[tenni]

"Casinos in the United States and in other countries are owned by the mob."
Who cares what happens in the US casinos. This is off topic as far as sex trade workers and the Supreme Court decision.

Biker gangs are suppose to have more control over prostitution in Canada than the mob according to reports. Hells Angels have a lot of Influence as well as some other major biker clubs and ethnic gangs. These gangs will be impacted when /if sex trade workers are able to work in brothels that they control themselves.

[Top fucker]

Don't think for a minute that the mob or criminal elements won't still get their hands into legal brothels in Canada or that human trafficking and abuse won't happen, or won't happen as much. Most of the people working as prostitutes in the seedy red light district in Amsterdam are people who have been trafficked there from other countries and forced into prostitution. Have you ever been to the red light district in Amsterdam? I have. It is seedy, not just because of the human trafficking but because there's tons of crime there.

[tenni]

Toppie
Has anyone told you that your moustache makes you look like a 1970's gay porn actor? Were you one?

[Top fucker]

Toppie Has anyone told you that your moustache makes you look like a 1970's gay porn actor? Were you one? Yes many people. No I never did porn like porn for a studio. I've just taken amateur nude pics and put them online.

[tenni]

The Globe and Mail just updated an article and stated that there seems like two options that the government may take that may please their conservative base.


a/ Nordic model -charge the trick and not the sex trade worker
b/ Make prostitution completely illegal


A third option is to do nothing and let prostitution exist outside of he criminal code. There are other criminal laws such as assault laws to help the sex trade worker. This is preferred by sex trade workers.


Jamie Cameron, another Osgoode Hall Law School professor who is a constitutional scholar, said the prospect of across-the-board criminalization is not “especially realistic. Whether it’s constitutional or not is another matter.” She also stressed the court’s ruling signals any new laws must be evidence-based. “That’s been an issue with the Harper government’s legislative agenda – that much of it seems to fly in the face of evidence,” she said.
Ms. Pacey, who favours decriminalization, agrees that making prostitution itself illegal isn’t a realistic option. “The great debate in Canada, in my view, or the most active debate, is between the Nordic model and a decriminalization model,” she said.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-political-options-parliament-has-a-year-to-respond-to-prostitution-ruling/article16081782/

[tenni]

The act of exchanging sex for money has never been illegal in Canada.

I have been to Amsterdam many times over the decades and even stayed in the Red Light district. It was safe. The attractiveness has diminished..aging? also time of year it looks less appealing..wet winter..less attractive.

Whether the majority of sex trade workers are "damaged" or no is debatable. I'm inclined to instinctively think so but I am told otherwise. Whether a person differs from you or not does not give you the right to tell them whether they exchange sex for money any more than people have the right to tell you not to marry a same sex person … . to stop sucking cock or taking it up the arse because you are a degenerate going to hell.(in their belief structure)

[tenni]

In memory of BiDave, drugstore cowboy, Top Fucker etc.

[tenni]

http://www.humanityinaction.org/knowledgebase/312-the-audacity-of-tolerance-a-critical-analysis-of-legalized-prostitution-in-amsterdam-s-red-light-district


“Apparently, the current situation surrounding legal window prostitution in the red light district of Amsterdam is far from ideal; changes are needed. Merel van Mansom is a student with a profound interest in the effects of policy on the labor conditions of prostitutes. According to Merel, one of the most important priorities is ‘de-stigmatization’ of the profession:”


“The illegal route to prostitution is more financially attractive to begin with; moreover, without stricter law enforcement to suppress the crime syndicates and pimps, this underground market will continue to expand and proliferate, potentially creating new avenues for trade and better opportunities for sex workers and investors alike. In such a criminal enterprise, proper working conditions cannot exist. The key to those better conditions would instead appear to be a new dialogue between all actors concerned, in order to produce a policy that promotes a safe and economically adequate living for the workers, while maintaining a high standard of credibility for the established legal system. “


US advice about travel in Netherlands 2012
“The risk of violent crime toward Americans is low throughout most of The Netherlands, and the U.S. Embassy is unaware of tourist/visitors being targeted, other than for petty crime. Although it remains rare, some increase in violent crime has occurred throughout The Netherlands, mainly in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Residential thefts occur on occasion, but the use of violence is rare. “

https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=12676

Compared to the US, violent crime is near non existence.

The tourist board of Amsterdam still promotes the Red Light district as a tourist destination.

[Dog62]

Casinos in the United States and in other countries are owned by the mob. You might want to believe that the casinos in Vegas are not owned by the mafia but just because you want to believe this does not make it true. They will ALWAYS run casinos in Vegas, Atlantic City, on the East and West Coast, and in other countries.What I believe is that you are living in the past, are massively uninformed and are trying to base your argument on things that you have no first hand knowledge of. I also believe it makes you look foolish. Your whine in this whole topic is that the mob will control it and that they refer to hookers as "sex trade workers". It's like referring to garbage men as sanitation workers. So what? We all know who we are talking about. Does it really both you that much that they attempt to give them a nicer name than "hooker"? Makes me wonder if you are only looking foolish or if you really are just a fool.