The Myth: Bisexual Men and HIV (new study results)

[tenni]

In past threads, there has been discussion and concern that bisexual men transmit HIV to heterosexual and bisexual women. The term MSM has been used in scientific studies examining HIV. "Men who have sex with Men" lumped both gay and bisexual men as one statistic. There were accusations on this site that bisexual men were spreading HIV to women and that these MSM studies supported that bisexual men were diseased. There were women(bisexual) who accused bisexual men of being diseased with HIV.

Thursday a report has been released examining HIV in bisexual men compared to gay men.
The following corrects the misconception about bisexual men.

1/ Researchers from the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public Health say that the number of HIV-positive men in the US who have sex with both men and women is likely to be equal to the number of HIV-positive men who only have sex with women.

2/ "Some observers have exaggerated the idea of viral 'bridging' - where a bisexual man contracts HIV from another man and then transmits it to a female partner. But, at least in the US, the data supporting the extent of this is quite limited," says Dr. Mackey R. Friedman, of the Department of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology at the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public Health and lead author of the study.

3/ The analysis revealed that men who were bisexual were only 40% as likely to be infected with HIV as men who were homosexual.

4/ The HIV infection risk that bisexual men pose to their female partners has likely been overstated.
However, that doesn't mean that HIV-prevention campaigns targeting bisexual men and their male and female partners aren't needed. HIV does exist in the bisexual community, and national, bisexual-specific data collection, research, and HIV prevention and care delivery are necessary to ameliorate this population's HIV burden."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/268469.php

Your thoughts?

[curious44]

Nice stuff to discuss while sitting on a bar stool but shouldn't have any effect on personal behavior. Stay smart, stay healthy, play safe. I'm pushing 70, still here and STD free. I like to compare it to CCW. You never know which strangers in the crowd might be packing a weapon and which ones might not. You also never know which strangers in the crowd might be packing an STD and which ones might not. Best not to do anything stupid that makes you find out the hard way in either scenario.

[darkeyes]

In past threads, there has been discussion and concern that bisexual men transmit HIV to heterosexual and bisexual women. The term MSM has been used in scientific studies examining HIV. "Men who have sex with Men" lumped both gay and bisexual men as one statistic. There were accusations on this site that bisexual men were spreading HIV to women and that these MSM studies supported that bisexual men were diseased. There were women(bisexual) who accused bisexual men of being diseased with HIV.

Thursday a report has been released examining HIV in bisexual men compared to gay men.
The following corrects the misconception about bisexual men.

1/ Researchers from the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public Health say that the number of HIV-positive men in the US who have sex with both men and women is likely to be equal to the number of HIV-positive men who only have sex with women.

2/ "Some observers have exaggerated the idea of viral 'bridging' - where a bisexual man contracts HIV from another man and then transmits it to a female partner. But, at least in the US, the data supporting the extent of this is quite limited," says Dr. Mackey R. Friedman, of the Department of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology at the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public Health and lead author of the study.

3/ The analysis revealed that men who were bisexual were only 40% as likely to be infected with HIV as men who were homosexual.

4/ The HIV infection risk that bisexual men pose to their female partners has likely been overstated.
However, that doesn't mean that HIV-prevention campaigns targeting bisexual men and their male and female partners aren't needed. HIV does exist in the bisexual community, and national, bisexual-specific data collection, research, and HIV prevention and care delivery are necessary to ameliorate this population's HIV burden."

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/268469.php

Your thoughts?
I think u should read what they are saying again, tenni.. 10% of bisexal men HIV+ ? Just what do they mean by saying that HIV pos men are likely to be equal in number to heterosexaul men? Now, I think I know what they are saying... but it is all a little vague so I can't be sure, and what they are saying can be a hostage to fortune in the hands of the unscrupulous.. As figures don't seem to be available for numbers of Bisexual men who are HIV (and how can there be when no one has a clue just how many bisexual people (men and women) there are) there are assumptions being made which really cannot be justified on what is published in your link. I can quite believe bisexual men are less likely to be HIV+ than gay men but it all seems pretty airey fairy to me and cannot be proven on what is said in the link so doesn't really help your cause.. more research needs done and more accurate info collected before any of those statements can be taken too seriously...

[curious44]

Tenni, please don't mis-interpret my remarks. It wasn't my intention to "kill the messenger" as the saying goes. I can't argue the data one way or the other either because I'm not up to speed on the subject. It's interesting and makes good food for thought and discussion. Thanks.

[tenni]

" As figures don't seem to be available for numbers of Bisexual men who are HIV (and how can there be when no one has a clue just how many bisexual people (men and women) there are) there are assumptions being made which really cannot be justified on what is published in your link."

darkeyes

When the accusations were being thrown around on this site, I looked up information and found the term "MSM"(men who have sex with men). This was the previous term used to combine both gay and bisexual men together. There was no information available about the comparison of HIV bimen and HIV gay men.

This report seems to be stating that yes they have asked people with HIV if they are gay, hetero or bisexual. The brief press release stated "From the analysis, the researchers estimate that there are around 1.2 million bisexual men in the US. Of these, they estimate that 121,800 are HIV-positive"

Therefore they have determined (for the first time) the numbers of bisexual men compared to the number of hetero or gay men with HIV. The numbers of bisexual men and hetero men who have transferred their HIV status to heterosexual or bisexual women has been reported in the public health reports. The bridging phobia is false according to this report.

As far as your other comment (10%), I don't understand that? I do find the statement 40% as likely to have HIV compared to homosexual men a bit unclear. I read it stating that 40% (less) likely to have HIV compared to gay men (who were surveyed). Bottom line for me is that bisexual men and gay men have different HIV statuses statistically. This clarifies the myth that bisexual men and gay men are equally infected with HIV. That is not to put a negative spin against gay men with HIV either.

These comments are interesting and for bisexual men myth ground breaking. However, they are words in a very brief release. A person would have to read and understand the actual complete report. The words are summaries of pages of comments and stats (I suspect) analysis.

There are always deniers. This is true.

Curious
I found your comment just a cautionary warning and not offensive at all. You may be not seeing the same significance that I see in this report. The report also warned to continue efforts to prevent getting HIV as well. In that respect you are in line with them. The hetero and bisexual women who make statements against bisexual men because they have sex with other men as well as women may (or may not) be calmed to know that it is no more risky to have sex with a bimah than having sex with any hetero man.

[darkeyes]

From the link, tenni.... which states that "From the analysis, the researchers estimate that there are around 1.2 million bisexual men in the US. Of these, they estimate that 121,800 are HIV-positive." Me maths isn't gr8, but me arithmetic on this occasion passes muster.. I reckon that 10% of 1.2 mill is 120 thousand or so... it contradicts the claim about heterosexuals unless it means in %age terms and even then it is talking a lot of heterosexual HIV+ peeps... 10% of 350 mill -1.2 mill -x trans -y cis . ok me formula may b crap cos I am crap at maths but u shud get the gist of what I am saying.. roughly 34 millions or so HIV+ str8 peeps.... or am I wrong? If we r not talking % but actual numbers then we r talking 120 thou str8 HIV+.. in %age terms approx 0.3% the numbers of bisexual people who become HIV+... confusing hey? C wot I mean babes?


The claims are in my opinion based on no information which stands even rudimentary scrutiny...... methinks Pittsburgh's finest brains need go back 2 the drawing board cos all they have done is confuse the issue... as best I can c, they do the cause of male bisexuals at least as much harm as they do good and in me own opinion a damn sight less... airey fairy is airey fairey... we need better info than we get on this link cos as best I can see the info it contains is fucking dangerous to bisexual men once in the wrong hands... if what they say is true (whatever that is), we need publication of and access to the facts and figures of the research which shows what they (may) be saying not poxy claims which could mean anything to anyone and help no one at all except maybe those who don't like bisexual (and gay) people... Maybe I am reading everything all wrong... wouldn't b first time but for life of me I don't see how... best I can c is it is almost impossible to read it right.... :eek2:

[tenni]

Well, darkeyes, at least you acknowledge that you are crap at math..lol
You are however correct about analysing that ten percent of USA bisexual men have HIV. (not Scots etc….should you ever want to revisit men sexually lol) Please note that this stat is not about bisexual women and so you need to include the sex. Ten percent of bisexual men in the US have HIV and not ten percent of bisexuals in the US have HIV. So lesbians should relax about having sex with bisexual women ;) There seems to be no stats on the rate if HIV in bisexual women but I suspect that it is low.(contrary to what was reported some lesbians accused bisexual women of being a bridging factor about bringing HIV to the lesbian community) It is possible that if there is HIV in the lesbian community that it happened from other sources than bisexual women.(drugs, etc.)


I do not follow your transition to calculating the percentage of HIV people in the US though? I don’t think that you can take the 10% to calculate the percentage of HIV people in the entire US population. The total number of bisexuals in the USA including men and women is higher than 1.2 million. We do not know the percentage of HIV in the entire bisexual population of the USA. It is probably less and add to this the possibility that a bisexual man may have contracted HIV from other sources than sex with other men and it gets mirkier to use a 10% figure.


I suspect if you ignore the stats but pay attention to the words, you will get more out of this report. Women are just as likely to get HIV from a hetero man as they are from a bisexual man. Females are at no greater risk if they have sex with a biman than a hetero man. Several posts that I have read from females have expressed this risk as a reason not to become involved with a bisexual man. This is a false belief according to this public health report.


I agree from what I am able to deceipher that information in the wrong hands is dangerous for bisexual men trying to date women. Some women may have to go back to the statement about washing their hair as a reason not to date a bisexual man…lol (same excuse they use on hetero men ;)

[darkeyes]

No doubt 'bout it.. me maths r duff, tenni me luffly.. but not that bad.. k.. forgotted haff the population of the US is female (oops bad that, hey?) and overguesstimated the total population...is no prob.. still 1ce u recalculate, still means that it's all bollox...:tongue:;).. and so needs work 2 say the least...:eek2: My calculations (1ce recalculated) r taken from the literal transcript of the link.. and trust me.. maybe we shudnt take such transcripts seriously but ther r many.. not our friends who will and do... and that dus none of us ne favours wotsoever.. females may well b at no more of a risk shagging a bi man than shagging a het.. am not sure from owt that is contained in this link that is a statement that can b made wiv ne conviction...

..and trust me on this an all.. it isn't dating a bisexual man we r talking about is it??? But I do take ur point and it is something the whole lgbt should be dealing with not simply the bisexual community:bigrin:... with if I may say, a little help from the more enlightened of our heterosexual friends... :)

[CurEUs_Male]

I think the key thing that you can take from this is that a study shows the 'myth' that bi men are all carrying STI's has been debunked. Yes some do, many do not, and just as many mono-hetero-men do *when it comes to HIV*. So as Tenni points out, bi men cause HIV bridging to the hetero world is busted. Can't be using it as an excuse any more... Will this help my wife feel more comfortable having me search for a FWB? Likely not. Safety is a huge concern for her, and I get it... you have to get to know your partner, know their health history in some fashion, much like curious44 stated - nice to talk about the topic, but you still need to be safe.

Consider the 10% number (that math worked for me). Getting a group of 10 bi guys together for a social event, talking about things, hikes, clubbing, whatever... Statistically one of them is infected with HIV. How do you tell? You have to ask, and share your own intimate details. Testing results, frequency, number of partners since the last test (+6 weeks), status of those partners... it gets pretty involved. Will 1 of those guys have HIV? Maybe. Maybe 9 of them will! Maybe none. The statistics work when looking at big pictures, but when it comes to being intimate and risk vs. risk aversion - you still have to educate yourself and take precautions.

Darkeyes, the rest of the math lost me entirely... I see where you were going, but as Tenni pointed out, some of the numbers you used are flawed.

I would also say it is likely that the original data used in the study are likely flawed if you look closely. Where did they find these bi guys that are not infected to include in the study? Where did they go to count infected vs. non-infected straight males? How many of those straight males, or bi males, or gay males, used for statistics are monogamous? Are there really any straight males? (Kinsey only found 10% of his study group were at the end points of the spectrum, leaving 90% - a significant amount - not monosexual.) Seems to me, if we used that number, the whole study feels flawed... but then we have not reviewed the study scope yet... and I'm not sure I have the patience to get through the whole study when it is published.

Consider the report, even in it's summarized format. Still use all the tools at your disposal to be safe as you meet people you may be interested in becoming physically intimate with.

[aLABiM75 & StrF51]

`


How have people still not figured out that your Orientation is not the reason you get AIDS?
The main causes are ignorance and not using protection.... both are in no way prejudicial.

`

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Sigh. Its stuff like this that makes people Not want to go play anymore. I know its all tangible and real, but it Really gives one paws, er, pause, for thought. Its scary out there, Folks. But like the another poster said "Play clean, and play safe" and you'll be fine. If we got scared by statisitcs, none of us would be getting anny..lol
Take care Loves.
Cat

[NMCowboys]

I read this in the study:
Furthermore, the analysis revealed that men who were bisexual were only 40% as likely to be infected with HIV as men who were homosexual.
The researchers hypothesize that this is because men who were bisexual reported lower rates of unprotected receptive anal intercourse. According to the researchers, this is the largest risk factor for HIV transmission among US men.

This part of the study makes sense to me since most bisexual men I have met are not into receptive anal sex at all, and use condoms when they have sex with a man; but a lot of bisexual and even heterosexual men don't use condoms when they have sex with a woman since they think that there's no way the chick they're banging raw could be HIV+ or infect them with HIV, and a lot of women both in the United States and worldwide are HIV+ and don't know it or lie about their HIV status.


Researchers from the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public Health say that the number of HIV-positive men in the US who have sex with both men and women is likely to be equal to the number of HIV-positive men who only have sex with women.

This is not a good thing since there are A LOT of heterosexual women and men in the United States who are HIV+ who don't know it, who lie about it, and there are a lot of heterosexual men who are HIV+ that lie about it, or don't know it. Worldwide most people who have died of AIDS and who are living with HIV/AIDS are heterosexual. Steve Jobs died of AIDS, and not pancreatic cancer but Apple's spin machine claims it was "cancer" but a better question is, how did Steve Jobs become HIV+ was he into IV drug use and sharing needles at some point in his life, was it from a blood transfusion, is he bisexual or gay and had unprotected sex, or is he heterosexual and had unprotected sex with an HIV+ woman?

Either way if you are sexually active today in 2013, or have been in the last 20 years you probably have had sex with someone who is HIV+ but they just didn't tell you, or lied about it. Yes there are people who are HIV+ who are honest about their status but the majority of people who are HIV+ lie about it since the stigma of being HIV+ is still around and very strong.