how hard is it to seperate bisexuality with homosexuality, come on!

[biblkman]

Why is it so hard for heterosexual and some homosexual people to distinguish the difference between bisexuality and homosexuality.

A lot of people can make the distinction betweeen bisexuality and heterosexuality, but seem to have a hard time distinguishing bisexuality and homosexuality.

I recently came out to a very close family member and for some reason could not get that I wasn't gay but bi, kept assuming I was gonna turn gay and kept asking about my attraction to the same sex more than my attraction to the opposite sex, and kept implying that I wanted sex from men more than women when in fact its the other way around.

This is one of the reasons I am still in the closest about my bisexuality accept to a select few.

I am bi and since I am in the closet I don't mind if people assume I'm straight cause I've lived my life as a straight man and had only realized that I was bi when I was 31 or 32.

But I see its easy for people to equate bisexuality with homosexuality.

But hardly ever equate bisexuality with heterosexuality.

I wonder why. And please don't tell me to come out I'm 37 I know what feels right for me!

[Realist]

I'm pretty much the same....and for the same reasons. I've never lived in a location that wasn't conservative and rife with moral extremists.

Those who think everyone should be out, have probably never lived in similar places. I've never felt that anyone needed to know I was bisexual, anyway, unless I was going to date them.

I've had a few conversations, just like you did with your family member, and it's so tiring to attempt to explain yourself to a person, who may never get it, anyway!

[NEBiGuy]

Most people are in the binary modality in their thinking on sex. It's a cultural indoctrination we almost all get exposed to. You're either straight or gay. And people want you to fit into their nice, pre-defined groupings. It's nothing personal, it's all about the culture we live in. If you don't fit with what they understand, it makes them uncomfortable, and they try to talk through it with you in a way that allows them to discard the parts that don't fit "one or the other', so they automatically try to make you fit into "gay". Even gay folks do this with us bisexuals. We're a pariah! Don't let it get you down, though, it's just our culture, not you. Do your best to educate, but don't get hung up on it! :)

[jem_is_bi]

That is the nature/nurture issue of human sexuality that they are trying to understand about you. Were you preprogramed to be one or the other or somewhere in between? Or, were you primarily molded by your experiences to be one or the other or somewhere in between? Or are you gay, straight or somewhere in between because of a relatively equal mixture of nature and nurture? So, in the context of unknown influences on their life, it is much easier to understand being only straight or gay when they are only one or the other.

[Visexual]

That reminds me of a silly joke/saying we used to use in the car business;

I've been selling cars for years and nobody addresses me as, "hey, car salesman"! But suck one little dick and you're a cocksucker for life!

Seriously though, I had a lesbian friend who was closeted bi. We slept together a few times and she was much more worried about her lesbian friends finding out than I was about my wife finding out. Go figure?

[dafydd]

maybe if u allowed urself to let them think you were gay as much as you allow urself to let others think you're straight u wouldnt be so hard on them. bisexuality *is* homosexuality as much as it is heterosexuality. ur no different from a gay man that sucks cock as u are from a straight man that eats pussy. the prejudice is in you (perhaps subconsciously and hopefully not maliciously) as u are still conforming to a society that favours straights instead of gays. u shouldnt feel threatened that anyone is challenging ur bisexuality by assuming ur gay as much as im sure u dont feel threatened when someone assumes ur straight. its the internalised homophobia that is causing the major part of frustration, not the gays that accept you having a sexuality different from the norm. so what if people think ur gay. tell em once ur bisexual and leave it at that. same with straight people. in the majority of my experience gays dont despise or even distrust bisexuals, they actually think its pretty hot and are welcoming once u get past the initial novelty factor. can u say the same for the reactions of some straight people in ur life? homophobia impacts on bisexuals as well as gays so we should do everything in our power to form allegiances and understanding with our gay friends not create another part of society that complains and rejects their desire towards one gender only. i.e u u should know better.
dont mean to sound patronising. its a struggle for everyone at one time or anything...but being 'frowned' on by gays is nothing to the hurt and pain caused by 'disapproving and disgusted' straight homophobes.

best
Daf

[tenni]

maybe if u allowed urself to let them think you were gay as much as you allow urself to let others think you're straight u wouldnt be so hard on them. bisexuality *is* homosexuality as much as it is heterosexuality. ur no different from a gay man that sucks cock as u are from a straight man that eats pussy. the prejudice is in you (perhaps subconsciously and hopefully not maliciously) as u are still conforming to a society that favours straights instead of gays. u shouldnt feel threatened that anyone is challenging ur bisexuality by assuming ur gay as much as im sure u dont feel threatened when someone assumes ur straight. its the internalised homophobia that is causing the major part of frustration, not the gays that accept you having a sexuality different from the norm. so what if people think ur gay. tell em once ur bisexual and leave it at that. same with straight people. in the majority of my experience gays dont despise or even distrust bisexuals, they actually think its pretty hot and are welcoming once u get past the initial novelty factor. can u say the same for the reactions of some straight people in ur life? homophobia impacts on bisexuals as well as gays so we should do everything in our power to form allegiances and understanding with our gay friends not create another part of society that complains and rejects their desire towards one gender only. i.e u u should know better.
dont mean to sound patronising. its a struggle for everyone at one time or anything...but being 'frowned' on by gays is nothing to the hurt and pain caused by 'disapproving and disgusted' straight homophobes.

best
Daf

As handsome as your bullocks are daf...I say to you ...BULLOCKS! ;)

Why feed the binary nature of monosexuals? I can see telling the the monosexuals once that you are a bisexual. Let it be at that. If they want to label you gay, inform them tht they are being biphobic(not fek'n homophobic as that feeds the bigotry even more than saying that you are gay). Let them look it up..or if so desired get a pint of Guiness and begin the lessons in biphobia...lol

I think that you are correct that in most cases gays will not verbalize the "there is no such thing as bisexuality. You have not yet realized that you are gay" but they may practice some form of Bi Erasure. Isn't that what you are doing by suggesting comments about just let them think that you are gay?

We are not in the middle. We may need to acknowledge that we are different than monosexuals(go to the point of stop using hetero and gay..call it what it is monosexuality vs bisexuality). This is real binary issue for monosexuals. Monoseuxals are attracted to one gender and bisexuals are attracted to both CIS genders.

Another binary is bisexuality vs pansexuality. Few seem curious about that binary.

:)

[Ebonybifemme7]

Yes it is hard for people to understand the difference. The craziest thing is that I've had more gay people come down on me about me being bisexual then straight people, although they have also. I remember hearing this one person at my job say that people CANT be bisexual, and that bi women are women who are just confused, and bi men are really gay men. I'm a woman and thats why I dont tell too many people but if a person really gets to know me (which most people dont nowadays) one on one instead of the person they want to see, then they would understand why.

[olmizzou42]

Recently watched on TV a Morman, of all religions, couple. Married, have a romantic sexual relationship, have kids, but because he's attracted to men they swear he's gay and that it all works out for them through prayer and the help of their church friends. Of course, they're all conservative and won't have their minds changed by facts. Hey folks, if he's fucking her but dreaming of sucking cocks he's bi!

[Swirl]

John Travolta. Notice how everyone insists that he come out as "gay"? Many folk simply can't even contemplate bisexuality.

[bluesky55]

I have given up with discussing bisexuality with straight or gay people because they seem to insist on labeling one so it meets their agenda. I believe that the people that most understand bisexuality are bisexuals. Sad to say but I've been bashed more harshly by gays than straights. i'll continue to eat pussy and suck cock for the rest of my life and to hell with anyone that has a problem with my bisexuality. Discrimination exists on all fronts whether we like it or not. I find no need to shout out my sexuality from the rooftops. I believe in "what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults is no body else's business."

[dafydd]

Tenni, you have totally misunderstood my point. and i totally disagree with what u say about not doing something cos it feeds bigotry. what nonsense. of course u should challenge biphobia and homophobia, of course u should inform people they are being biphobic but at some point u can only state who u are and its their problem if they like it or not. i dont believe in bi erasure and if u actually paid any attention to any of my projects as i do of urs ud know that is a ludicrous accusation. my intention wasnt to advocate bi erasure, exactly the opposite. ur reacting to something that uve assumed i was saying in my post that i wasnt.

with respect
ur friend Daf

[dafydd]

I have given up with discussing bisexuality with straight or gay people because they seem to insist on labeling one so it meets their agenda. I believe that the people that most understand bisexuality are bisexuals. Sad to say but I've been bashed more harshly by gays than straights. i'll continue to eat pussy and suck cock for the rest of my life and to hell with anyone that has a problem with my bisexuality. Discrimination exists on all fronts whether we like it or not. I find no need to shout out my sexuality from the rooftops. I believe in "what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults is no body else's business."

what hapoens if u fall in love with a man and want to do other this with him that dont involve just sex? like hold hands in public or buy a house together do all the other public things straight couples do. not every bisexual relegates their sexuality to just 'behind closed doors'

[tenni]

Lovely Daf
Sorry if I have misunderstood your point. The point that I understood is that you are suggesting that bisexuals say that they are gay rather than hetero because gays are more discriminated than heterosexuals? My point is to look at heteros and gays as monosexuals. We are neither and should not pick a side to identify with. I agree that many bis come from a hetero perspective and slowly realize that they are not hetero. The auto default seems to be to ask if you are gay rather than bisexual. Hell the use of the word monosexual is hardly used and so society is not coming anywhere near close to examining things from that binary possibilities.

I do see your suggestion that bisexuals should identify with gays and being gay as a bi erasure thought or perspective.


You need to tell me more about your projects. I am aware of one very interesting project that you did tell me about. It was sexuality based as I recall.


Now, you lovely man is that a pussy that you are stroking in the photo? or is it a hot doggy :)

[Gearbox]

I am aware of one very interesting project that you did tell me about. It was sexuality based as I recall.
:eek:

[dafydd]

Lovely Daf
Sorry if I have misunderstood your point. The point that I understood is that you are suggesting that bisexuals say that they are gay rather than hetero because gays are more discriminated than heterosexuals?


not in in the slightest

[elian]

A lot of gay men may have gone through a process of denying that they are gay - so therefore it follows that perhaps you too, are just in denial...

Nevermind the idea (true or otherwise) that bisexual people are more promiscuous...

[FunE1]

I agree with the others here who have suggested that this is largely a factor of the "binary" thinking most people have about sexuality... Because they have such a strong feeling towards 1 sex vs. the other, they can't imagine how a person could be attracted to both. And since many people have over the years said that they were bi, only to discover later that they were really gay, a lot of people conflate an example that they may have heard about (and/or had more experience with) with a situation they now find themselves in. While it can be annoying to get the "this isn't a faze on the way to gay, is it" question, it is, at least, an attempt by the person to learn more about your sexuality and to understand it, so I try to answer the questions as best I can, so long as they aren't needlessly redundant or blatantly hostile/rude. I find Daddyd's idea of "tell 'em your bi and leave it at that" appealing as well, since, really, what does it matter to them in the long run... aside from, perhaps, understanding that there IS such a thing as bisexuality, it IS real, and at least ONE person they know IS bisexual.

[Ebonybifemme7]

The craziest thing is that gay people dont want straight majority to deny that they exist and to deny them there rights. Its the craziest thing. Its almost like they need something else to look down on.

[dafydd]

A lot of gay men may have gone through a process of denying that they are gay - so therefore it follows that perhaps you too, are just in denial...

Nevermind the idea (true or otherwise) that bisexual people are more promiscuous...

do you mean the OP here elian?

[dafydd]

The craziest thing is that gay people dont want straight majority to deny that they exist and to deny them there rights. Its the craziest thing. Its almost like they need something else to look down on.

to a certain extent yes but its more the cycle of abuse then anything else. u are made outcast and in trying to return to normality u form a social group that makes others outcast, the power u had taken away from u by society u reclaim by taking it away from someone else, much like intense homophobia and biphobia in black communities and elite body fascism in gay ones. its not great but easy to understand how it happens.

[dafydd]

my main point was in saying that closet bisexuals dont tend to get up in arms when people think they are straight, only when people think they are gay. why do u think this is so? i think its because of internalised homophobia. i dont think tenni that you would insist to every straight person who accepted u as straight without question, that u were a bisexual and state that they were exhibiting biphobia as u seem to suggest u would with gays. so my original question in this context was, whats so bad about being considered gay that elicit feelings of frustration that being considered straight doesn't.

it is not I conforming to binary sexualities here. but you conforming to a heterosexual prioritisation of the acceptability of certain sexualities gay vs. straight vs. bisexual. in ur mind being assumed straight in he public eye always comes top. lots of the people on this site are closeted and have accepted and maybe encouraged the embrace of being assumed straight and yet not gay. why?

is it because they believe it is better to be considered straight and not gay? possibly and also understandable given the amount of homophobia in the world. they downplay their homo side and leave it to secret rendezvous and furtive sex and live their public life in the acceptable straight eye. they then get all up in arms when gay people dont accept their bisexuality, and yet at least the gay community would never beat them up, or prevent them with laws or aggressive attitudes from living their bisexual life in the public eye, if they so choose, which they dont. (cue all the stories of bisexuals on here who have been beaten up by gays...im sure that will now come)

not all straight communities would be so accepting...and yet still gays get it in the neck time and time again here (on a site which seems predominantly populated by people in the closet). I'm not saying that biphobia doesnt exist in gay communities, but it is not as hostile as u think. it is NOT the biphobia u find in straight communities. it is not the same. e.g. as i said before, a lot of gays eroticise bisexuals. one of the manifestations of the biphobia is in turning bisexuals into sex objects.. not the punching bags of hate crime.

but u really have no right to be outraged with what gays think about u if ur still cowering in the corner over what straights think about you.
"u cannot pick and choose what u want from a culture and leave it with the burden of inequality" paraphrasing Margaret Cho

or is it that gays make easy targets to vent ur frustration and criticise? go then and stand up to the redneck at the bar and talk about bi erasure and denying u the right to express ur duality of love.., but im guessing this doesnt happen as often gays get the backhand of ur ire. im using 'you' in general context, not directing this at u tenni...i know ur more open than most.

the struggle for gay rights and putting gay rights on the agenda has benefitted bisexuals... thats years of fighting by gays as well as bisexuals for bisexuals..
or perhaps u dont think so..but that really just smacks of internalised homophobia if u think they are giving us a 'bad name'.

**homophobia and internalised homophobia/biphobia gives bisexuals and gays a bad name, not gays**

and bisexuals who are not fully out and cheat on their wives and think that the homo side of their bisexuality is all about fetishistic, anonymous, or clandestine sex give bisexuals the worst names. they perpetuate bi-stereotypes and bi erasure more than anything else.

clean ur own sills before u run a finger of dust along the mantlepiece of others.

Daf

ps.i might see how my first post may have been misinterpreted, i hope this clarifies it. i just didnt want to have to do a freedom march to do so.

[tenni]

Daf
I think that the main difference between our perspectives is that you are discussing monosexuals as two separate sexualities. I’m presenting the two binary sexualities as monosexuals and bisexuals. I’m not preferring heterosexuality over homosexuality. We simply as bisexuals do not discuss the binary that I think should be discussing. We continue to discuss it as a three choice scenario when in reality bisexuals are not happy with either monosexual identity. The monosexuals are both the same in that those people are attracted to one gender while bisexuals are attracted to two genders.


Do bisexuals prefer to identify with heterosexuals if they can get away with it? Publicly yes of course they do as heteroseuxality is the preferred of the monosexuals. It is the dominant monosexuality. Some post on here that the label of a sexuality is not important to them. This seems to be a trait of some bisexuals. It is not a trait of monosexuals(both hetero and gay). Since, those bisexuals do not even want to be bothered with labels, bisexuality may not be getting sufficient air time as to how it differs from monosexuality..both hetero and gay monosexuality. These bisexuals have outgrown their training as a monosexual. Are they more enlightened than monosexuals to not be concerned with sexuality labels? I suspect that they are. Would it not be a better world if who a person is sexually and or emotionally attracted to was not stigmatized?


“in ur mind being assumed straight in he public eye always comes top. lots of the people on this site are closeted and have accepted and maybe encouraged the embrace of being assumed straight and yet not gay. why? “


Some posters on this site, again state that putting a label on their sexuality is of no interest to them. They do not care to come out of a closet like gay monosexuals feel the need to do. This is another difference between monosexuals and bisexuals. Who you have sex with is no one else's business and there is no need to come out. Perhaps, those bisexuals should be making this statement louder? Are they even asked if coming out as bisexual is important to them? (no) Interestingly, I see more young bisexuals feeling the need to say they are bisexual. It does seem to fulfill an identity need for them. I'm not sure why but it does.


is it because they believe it is better to be considered straight and not gay?


Again,you are discussing monosexuals and comparing monosexuals. If given a monosexual binary, what would a sane person select? If given the option to see yourself as a monosexual vs a bisexual, which would a bisexual pick? It depends upon their self esteem imo. It depends upon dialogues that they have participated in. If they have heard only the dialogue about hetero vs gay, they will more than not pick to be perceived as the dominant and least discriminated group.


The OP asks why is it difficult to distinguish between bisexuals and gays. Why is it so difficult to distinguish between bisexuality and homosexuality. Well, we seem not to be exposed to discussions about bisexuality. You and others harp on about comparing hetero and homo rather than monosexual and bisexual. This makes it very hard to separate bisexuality from monosexual whether homosexual or heterosexual.

[Realist]

Personally, I feel that many of us tend to think a thing like this to death!

We analyze, dissect, try to figure out others' motivations, thought processes, and actions, while often never giving a thought to those of our own. It's not that I don't care what others think, it's just that I've never been motivated to try to change their minds, or to attempt to make them think as I do.

A long time ago, I decided to do my own thing, in my own way, and not be too concerned about what everyone else did, or thought.

People with similar interests will naturally come together, while those who don't understand, have different tastes, or beliefs, will gravitate toward our own intellectual groups. I see a huge variation of interests just in this site alone. If I feel the same way about something, I will want to share with that group. If I don't, I may read their thoughts, but usually won't get involved in conversations about subjects I have little, or no interest in.

The trouble is, when different groups condemn, over analyze, and attack (verbally, or physically) instead of tolerate, or accept, animosity reigns. Communication is hampered, theories are often founded on conjecture, and friction evolves. I don't want to be a part of that.

Being a little less "in your face" and private, I've avoided much of this friction and lived the way I wanted to in relative peace and satisfaction.

[dafydd]

Personally, I feel that many of us tend to think a thing like this to death!

We analyze, dissect, try to figure out others' motivations, thought processes, and actions, while often never giving a thought to those of our own. It's not that I don't care what others think, it's just that I've never been motivated to try to change their minds, or to attempt to make them think as I do.

A long time ago, I decided to do my own thing, in my own way, and not be too concerned about what everyone else did, or thought.

People with similar interests will naturally come together, while those who don't understand, have different tastes, or beliefs, will gravitate toward our own intellectual groups. I see a huge variation of interests just in this site alone. If I feel the same way about something, I will want to share with that group. If I don't, I may read their thoughts, but usually won't get involved in conversations about subjects I have little, or no interest in.

The trouble is, when different groups condemn, over analyze, and attack (verbally, or physically) instead of tolerate, or accept, animosity reigns. Communication is hampered, theories are often founded on conjecture, and friction evolves. I don't want to be a part of that.

Being a little less "in your face" and private, I've avoided much of this friction and lived the way I wanted to in relative peace and satisfaction.

that is one way to live but not everyone is afforded the luxury of privacy.
for some people it is important to voice their views and to attempt to change things.
also if uve ever been discriminated against, been a victim of hate crime or lost ur job because of ur sexuality, or losing custody rights to ur child simply remaining quiet and accepting isnt an option.
also you wouldn't be afforded the quieter life of a bisexual if others hadnt spoken out on ur behalf in the ongoing civil rights movement. i appreciate what u say and respect it but you must accept others have to talk about these issues as much as you prefer not to to be "in your face", which i think is a kindof self hating phrase anyway. what do u class as in ur face? wearing assless jeans? holding ur partners hand in public? having a debate on a bisexual website? takin pics of ur anus and posting it online? all or none?
why do u comment on some decent discussion on the nature of sexuality as 'in your face' and not the streams of pics of cocks in panties and the like? weird reversal in my mind. if u can take obscene porn surely u can take a small rally? or does it irritate u in some other way? there is absolutely a place for these kind of discussions here...there used to be a lot more of em.
i can see how what i say sounds irritating in a preachy way... i dont want to sound preachy but its always the way in these kind of discussions. i try to have a sense of humour about most things on here, but for some reason i lose all joking sensibilities on these subjects. maybe its the so called 'banging on' that annoys rather than the heart of what im sayin. if im alienating myself from the people im talking to in a discussion then thats not good, and i should try to modify my tone. nothing ever gets discussed when noone is available to listen. i get that. i can understand this. and accept it. its just an issue close to my heart. its not overanalysed in my mind, cos its my life, and i want to analyse it because when i do i make better decisions, understand others better and lead a happier life. we're not all in the grips of some woody allen angst or constantly in danger of reliving the stress and worry that ties us to a virtual psychiatrists coach. not everyone is that fragile because of their thoughts, or at risk of depression if we mull on existential issues too much. in my mind *not* exploring who i am leads to poor mental health. basically, no need to worry about others having breakdowns over this realist.

thanks for posting anyway realist. but adding to this discussion one just appears like ur going against ur wish to not care what others think, or not make them think like u do. ur adding to because u bave an opinion as am i. why say u dont care if you really dont care? odd. join in and know ur joining in, better than sending allusions of zen mastery that ur in a gin and tonic commercial where 'hey... its just not important guys..relax baby'

Daf

[Realist]

Basically, I was attempting to convey that I have no quarrel with anyone with different interests, or opinions, other than mine. But, a person's perceived manner has a lot to do whether, or not, their issue becomes a compelling point, or an aggravation to be skirted. I appreciate an exchange of ideas/ideals, but not shouting matches, or rude, aggressive, antagonism.

That's the reason I responded in this case. As I was reading responses I noticed some feel a lot more emphatic about some issues, that I don't...or have totally different motivations. And, no one was in an "In your face mode"!

Rethinking it, I should have been more clear.

[cuttin2dachase]

For many people, everything is black and white with no gray area between. Those people, whether straight or homosexual, will never understand bisexuality. It's completely beyond their comprehension. They tend to believe that everyone must be one or the other. I am very closeted with no desire to come out, so I've never been judged by str8 heterosexuals. To them, I am an everyday, masculine hetero guy. Having been twice married, my sexual experience is 95% heterosexual. 1st wife and I were swingers and she encouraged me to try bi things with men we met for 3somes. I obliged her and I have enjoyed and sought sexual experiences with men and couples with bi men ever since. In my early bi experiences, I met several gay men, all of whom tried to convince me that I was gay and that there was no way I could enjoy and desire women sexually after the way I made love to them LOL I told them that my desire for and enjoyment of casual sex AND lovemaking with both women and men is the very essence and proof of my bisexuality. I was cursed, hounded, threatened with outing and stalked by 2 of those gay men. I have since sought only bi men (preferably married) and married couples with bi men for bi sex and lovemaking. Bi married men are definitely the best (and kinkiest) male lovers ;)

[biblkman]

To daf...

Let give a more simpler example...

If a person who grew up Christian started thinking and doubting and came to the conclusion or realization that they are agnost but chose to keep it to themselves beacause they don't want to deal with everyones opinions or feel the need to explain there position.

Now let's say that person to a Christian relative they were agnostic , but the Christian kept implying and trying to tell the agnostic that there really an atheist, even though the agnostic keeps trying to explain there position.

So this agnostic chooses to let people believe they are Christian beacause its just easier and thats what the agnostic identified with for so long.

No different if a bisexual who for 30 sum years lived and thought they were homosexual until a few years ago... decided to keep it from theo homosexual community because they don't want to be labeled straight when they are bi , but don't have a problem with people assuming there homosexual because that's how they lived most of there lives.

I'm sure that bisexual who once identified as homosexual would rather people thought of them as homosexual then heterosexual.

My question was why do most straight people and some gays think bisexuality is basically homosexuality, but understand completely that bisexuality is not the same as heterosexuality.

Do you have an opinion on the question I posed or just on my frustration with being called gay when I'm bi.

[Gearbox]

In my early bi experiences, I met several gay men, all of whom tried to convince me that I was gay and that there was no way I could enjoy and desire women sexually after the way I made love to them LOL
That's exactly what I've had too.lol Makes you wonder if they tell the gay ones who don't enjoy sex with them that much, to go get some pussy instead.:tongue:

I was cursed, hounded, threatened with outing and stalked by 2 of those gay men.
That's just fucked up! I doubt other gays would support that, and they were just a pair of mentally imbalanced twats with too much free time.:eek:

[donlikesdicks]

I believe the problem with your question is your insistence on classifying behavior. Sexual acts just are what they are: sexual acts and behaviors. Social scientists are interested in classification, but we need not share that interest. Those of us who do share the need or desire to classify sexual behavior as this or that type can do so at their pleasure, risking only misunderstanding. Personally, I don't feel the need to explain or justify why I like to suck dick or pussy, or fuck or be fucked. I have no political or sociological need to classify what I enjoy. I do still feel a need to keep enjoying sex with both men and women, and while I find the female body much more attractive and lovely, I find the male sexual organ more fun to put my lips around, especially when I can coax a nice load of cum from it.

[dafydd]

To daf...


My question was why do most straight people and some gays think bisexuality is basically homosexuality, but understand completely that bisexuality is not the same as heterosexuality.

Do you have an opinion on the question I posed or just on my frustration with being called gay when I'm bi.

i dont agree with ur assertion that most straight people think that bisexuality is basically homosexuality.
i think some straight people are so homophobic that they cant see the wood for the trees and foreground whats 'wrong' with you instead of whats 'right'. i understand why those guys think like that. i dont condone them making it an issue for others though.

i think some gay people are so damaged by internalised homophobia that they feel it important for people to either be with them or against them, and since there are so many men who diss gays and yet still suck them off they are naturally suspicious and afraid of being taken for fools. also they may resent closeted gays who say they are bi, who reap the benefits of gay desire with none of the social sacrifice. i understand why those guys think like that. I dont condone them making it an issue for others either.

i dont think its the majority, in any way. and if it is in ur life, u could stop hanging out with those people, and speaking online to those types of people. there are wankers in all parts of life..whatever sexuality. suss out the wankers and engage (with low expectations) or avoid completely.

i read ur post basically as about why u didnt like to be assumed to be gay. (i guess ur telling me that u dont mind this now.. cool. ) i was just interested in why ur frustrations with being assumed to be straight didnt appear as angry against straights as it did against gays. thought there was something interesting in that..., thought it could add to a better answer and food for thoug.

best

Daf

yeah i know labels labels, but discussing labels is essential to respond to the OP's post. if there werent labels I cant see there'd be a problem.

[dafydd]

For many people, everything is black and white with no gray area between. Those people, whether straight or homosexual, will never understand bisexuality. It's completely beyond their comprehension. They tend to believe that everyone must be one or the other. I am very closeted with no desire to come out, so I've never been judged by str8 heterosexuals. To them, I am an everyday, masculine hetero guy. Having been twice married, my sexual experience is 95% heterosexual. 1st wife and I were swingers and she encouraged me to try bi things with men we met for 3somes. I obliged her and I have enjoyed and sought sexual experiences with men and couples with bi men ever since. In my early bi experiences, I met several gay men, all of whom tried to convince me that I was gay and that there was no way I could enjoy and desire women sexually after the way I made love to them LOL I told them that my desire for and enjoyment of casual sex AND lovemaking with both women and men is the very essence and proof of my bisexuality. I was cursed, hounded, threatened with outing and stalked by 2 of those gay men. I have since sought only bi men (preferably married) and married couples with bi men for bi sex and lovemaking. Bi married men are definitely the best (and kinkiest) male lovers ;)

saying that some things are beyond some peoples comprehension is a really sad thing to say. everyone is capable of learning new things about sexuality... Its a shame that u met such shit gay men. though their comments could have just been a reaction to ur lack of modesty about how wonderful a lover you were. they might have just been trying to deflate ur ego, even tho they had to be insensitive to do it.

Daf

[elian]

do you mean the OP here elian?

Oh sorry, no I'm not talking about anyone specifically, but in general that is what I think a lot gay folks think.

[dafydd]

Oh sorry, no I'm not talking about anyone specifically, but in general that is what I think a lot gay folks think.

yeah...you've got a good point elian. i agree thats also a major factor.

d

[bib4u]

When a woman sucks a cock, she's always considered hetro..when a man eats pussy, he's sometimes considered gay! It can get confusing...If you've never heard "if they lick the hole, they'll suck the pole", then where have you been?

[michael6686]

Apparently, with people who don't say that. I've never heard that before.

I'm glad I stumbled into this chat, though. I am amazed about the self-labelled "gay" men who bash bisexuals. It was actually a woman who turned me on to sex with her and her husband that got me into this. I eat pussy and I will also suck the pole. I think that's what bisexual men do, though.

[cuttin2dachase]

Daf wrote: "Its a shame that u met such shit gay men. though their comments could have just been a reaction to ur lack of modesty about how wonderful a lover you were. they might have just been trying to deflate ur ego, even tho they had to be insensitive to do it."

I certainly was not implying that most or all gay men are possessive and anti-bi or that I am some kind of superlover. The gay men I've been with did think of me as a good lover, but rather than accept my bisexuality, they chose to be argumentative and possessive and tell me I "used" them...when I had told them upfront that I was bisexual and not interested in anything more than non-exclusive semi-regular sex with them.

[Coastocoast]

I am so guarded with my sexuality due to my career and children that I just play off all of the talk when I hear gay/bisexual without getting involved. I think the most common "logic" that people use is that a guy having sex with a guy is "a homosexual act" so he is therefore homosexual, period. They do not look at his engaging in a heterosexual act with a women as anything more than a guy trying to fool himself into thinking he is not gay if he also has sex with men. Women can "experiment in college" and remain straight although they might be "confused" or "just experimenting" so the genders are looked at very differently. I will also agree that when I hear gay men and women refer to bisexuals it is often in a more hostile way than straight people. I am bisexual and enjoy both genders even if it confuses the average person. It is just a shame it is so difficult to find someone of either gender interested in getting together for more than hit and run when you are a single guy with custody of kids. Finding an ongoing situation is very difficult.

[Ebonybifemme7]

Yeah I have a coworker who is gay (worked with gay people in the past) and I WILL NOT tell them!!!! Its almost like being the closet. I dont even know what they include bisexual people in LGBT.

[McBice]

For a while in the late 90's, I played guitar in a band with 5 lesbians. At the time, I was going through a very emotionally difficult time in my life and playing in the band was my escape from that. I became close friends several of my bandmates as well as some of the girls that formed my band mates' crowd of friends (all lesbians). I never came out to them as bi mainly because I was preoccupied with my own troubles and that was already a bit too distracting from focusing on playing music. While I had had interactions with LGBT folks before then, it had not been on any sort of intimate level like being in a band together. I was soon to find out ( a very rare occasion of shock for me) that it was probably a very good thing that I didn't come out to them. I came to find out that the internal politics of a small crowd of lesbians made Capitol Hill look downright pious and sane. But what really struck me, was the incredible level of intolerance amongst some of them. I was resolved once again that people are people regardless of their stripe...some are good, some aren't. A few of those women are still good friends to this day and I could probably tell them I am bi. They would probably laugh and be very happy for me, then say, "now can ya fix my guitar...it really needs a lot of work"
On the flip side...several years later, I was in another band where my 3 other band mates were straight. One day, as we were packing up our gear, I think the discussion was about some celebrity coming out, one of my band mates interjects "If you suck a dick you're gay". The rest of us laughed at him and he repeated himself. Our female lead singer, still laughing, said, "Really?...I suppose that goes for women too?"... "Oh absolutely. If a girl licks a pussy, she's a lesbian". When that round of laughter from the 3 of us died down I said, "Lemme tell ya man, if she were still around, I have an ex wife that would be happy to get out the DeWault, drill a couple holes in your head and let all those evil spirits out." As the conversation continued, it took everything I had to resist referencing myself as that would have just poured hi octane on an already tumultuous band dynamic, but I managed. And again, I could probably come out to those folks now and they would probably laugh be happy for me and say, "now can ya fix my guitar...it really needs a lot of work"...

[scapegoat1987]

It seems that I'm coming at this subject from a different perspective (perhaps) than most of the people I've encountered so far on this site. I'm not sure that I have any enlightening observations other than this: the instances of bi erasure and biphobia are just as real for someone coming from the other side of the fence. Let me explain. I identified as a bisexual man and dated both men and women in my younger days, but that has been at least twenty years ago. I've been exclusively with men ever since. That is until recently, when I became reacquainted, shall we say, with my bisexuality and once again began dating women as well. My family has come to accept this gay identity and have embraced whatever male partner I happened to have at the time. However, I must say that the welcoming mat has not been so welcoming this time around. :) Even though I've always been just as accepting of bisexuals as of gays and lesbians, it seems that many in the lgbt community--some of my dearest friends included--are not quite as accepting. And my heterosexual family members and coworkers, who would typically stand up for me if someone were to challenge or threaten my perceived homosexuality, are not as thrilled with the thought of me dating women. I've even been told in no uncertain terms by a family member that, "I can't imagine you with a woman. It's confusing and it kinda pisses me off that you can't just make up your mind. You can't expect us to keep jumping back and forth like that." :( I tend to think of my sexual identity as being much more fluid than fixed, and I understand that some people might find this new identity as being something confusing, especially those who weren't part of my life before I exclusively dated men. I might also point out that many of the people on here talk about bisexuality as if everyone is 50/50 in their attractions to men and women, which has not been my experience. My favorite definition is that I identify as bisexual because I acknowledge that within me is the potential for attraction, sexually and/or romantically, to both sexes, and/or genders, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same manner and not necessarily to the same degree. Don't know if that adds to the conversation or not, but it's my two cents worth anyway.

[scapegoat1987]

@Biblkman. I believe it comes down to the concepts of "Herteronormativity" and "Queerness." Heteronormativity is just that: the ingrained belief that heterosexuality is the norm, and anything that doesn't fit inside that box of heteronormativity is queer. And that which doesn't reinforce the heteronormative paradigm thereby undermines or threatens people's perceived reality. Anything that is even slightly different (bisexuality included) is categorized with "The Other," because it's human nature to focus on that which makes us different as opposed to that which binds us together. Your same-sex attractions negate your heterosexual proclivities in most people's minds. Another example that I hesitate to make (because I'll probably be crucified by some for suggesting it) is that of biracial people. The majority of people view them as their minority racial heritage, because that lumps them in with the perceived threat of "The Other." It makes them part of the enemy camp. I mean, I don't hear anyone arguing that President Obama is NOT our first African American President because he's half Caucasian. Ok...maybe some of the Tea Baggers are arguing that, but consider the source. :tongue:

[scapegoat1987]

and I might also add that the biracial comparison also works from the opposite viewpoint as well, in that biracial people are often ridiculed by the African American community for having "White Privilege." That's much the same way that bisexuals are often accused by gays and lesbians of taking advantage of their "Heteronormative Privilege."

[smokindeist]

For me, being seen as straight wins simply because I'm married to a wonderful woman. My bi-side is simply nobody's business and perhaps it is for some protection from the homo and bi-phobics. OK, it's one of the reasons... When I feel more comfortable with my bisexuality, I may come out. My issue is that I've only realized that I've been bi my whole life a couple of years ago. I'm still coming to terms with this revelation, but my wife has been extraordinarily supportive.

I am very outspoken on such subjects such as marriage equality. For me, it is not that I'm specifically for gay rights, bi rights, women's rights, or anyone else's rights. I simply believe that everyone is entitled to the same basic rights and responsibilities as everyone else. The side effect of this belief is that I do end up standing of for all of these different group's rights. Some of us do have reasons to keep our sexuality private, but that should not stop us from speaking out and standing up for what is right. As I come to terms with my own sexuality, I can at least say that I wasn't quiet.

[Cuiriousmark]

I completely agree - I enjoy bisex, but only on occasion and then when it happens it's great. My wife knows I am bi and we talk about it openly. The need to classify or being something that fits a definition is distasteful...

Good on you smokindeist... must be our Oregon air :-)

[tenni]

"I simply believe that everyone is entitled to the same basic rights and responsibilities as everyone else."

The right to have sex with anyone regardless of gender or marriage status.

[tenni]

Yet most gays and lesbians both in North America and Europe, and worldwide are not out, and are married or partnered to people of the opposite gender, and totally closeted about being gay/lesbian.

This may have some validity in your country but not North America. In my province of Ontario, we have a same sex, married lesbian as our Premier. We have several opening gay politicians and many are married at several levels of government. What we do not seem to have are politicians who state that they are bisexual. Many bisexuals do not seem to feel the need to advertise their sexuality even in countries where same sex marriage is legal and many same sex married couples exist.

[elian]

This may have some validity in your country but not North America. In my province of Ontario, we have a same sex, married lesbian as our Premier. We have several opening gay politicians and many are married at several levels of government. What we do not seem to have are politicians who state that they are bisexual. Many bisexuals do not seem to feel the need to advertise their sexuality even in countries where same sex marriage is legal and many same sex married couples exist.

That's great tenni, here in the US we have people such as former Sen. Larry Craig:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal

[smokindeist]

"I simply believe that everyone is entitled to the same basic rights and responsibilities as everyone else."

The right to have sex with anyone regardless of gender or marriage status.

That wasn't my exact point, but I can see where you are coming from. :) I meant that we are all deserving of the same rights and responsibilities. For example: why do I get a large number of benefits under the law simply because I married someone of the opposite sex? Why are we limited to just one spouse? The latter question may need some work under the law to cover multiple permanent partners. Personally, I'm not 100% sure I could handle another partner either. lol

[DiamondDog]

maybe if u allowed urself to let them think you were gay as much as you allow urself to let others think you're straight u wouldnt be so hard on them. bisexuality *is* homosexuality as much as it is heterosexuality. ur no different from a gay man that sucks cock as u are from a straight man that eats pussy. the prejudice is in you (perhaps subconsciously and hopefully not maliciously) as u are still conforming to a society that favours straights instead of gays. u shouldnt feel threatened that anyone is challenging ur bisexuality by assuming ur gay as much as im sure u dont feel threatened when someone assumes ur straight. its the internalised homophobia that is causing the major part of frustration, not the gays that accept you having a sexuality different from the norm. so what if people think ur gay. tell em once ur bisexual and leave it at that. same with straight people. in the majority of my experience gays dont despise or even distrust bisexuals, they actually think its pretty hot and are welcoming once u get past the initial novelty factor. can u say the same for the reactions of some straight people in ur life? homophobia impacts on bisexuals as well as gays so we should do everything in our power to form allegiances and understanding with our gay friends not create another part of society that complains and rejects their desire towards one gender only. i.e u u should know better. dont mean to sound patronising. its a struggle for everyone at one time or anything...but being 'frowned' on by gays is nothing to the hurt and pain caused by 'disapproving and disgusted' straight homophobes. my main point was in saying that closet bisexuals dont tend to get up in arms when people think they are straight, only when people think they are gay. why do u think this is so? i think its because of internalised homophobia. i dont think tenni that you would insist to every straight person who accepted u as straight without question, that u were a bisexual and state that they were exhibiting biphobia as u seem to suggest u would with gays. best Daf I agree with what you wrote. I also have noticed that most gay men I have been friends with and met are not biphobic and do not despise or distrust us bisexuals. I have noticed that people who are deeply closeted or ashamed of their sexuality have the professional victim attitude of "My sexuality is nobody's business but my own" but are perfectly OK with people even their partners/spouses, close friends, and family members thinking that they're heterosexual and a lot of this has to do with internalized homophobia or in their case internalized biphobia.
John Travolta. Notice how everyone insists that he come out as "gay"? Many folk simply can't even contemplate bisexuality. That's because Revolta is gay and deeply closeted, but this has been know about him for decades. Pretty much all men and a lot of women in Hollywood who are involved in the cult of Scientology are closeted gays and lesbians including Will and Jada Smith, and others.

[HaroldSaxon]

I had a friend tell me to just pick a team and quit being greedy. Most people just do not understand.

[Asspussy302]

Being bi is very misunderstood. Most people think that if you have sex with a member of the same sex, then you are gay.

[Gearbox]

I agree with what you wrote. I also have noticed that most gay men I have been friends with and met are not biphobic and do not despise or distrust us bisexuals. I have noticed that people who are deeply closeted or ashamed of their sexuality have the professional victim attitude of "My sexuality is nobody's business but my own" but are perfectly OK with people even their partners/spouses, close friends, and family members thinking that they're heterosexual and a lot of this has to do with internalized homophobia or in their case internalized biphobia.
Come along now lovely Diamond! I'm sure nobody is accusing those MOST gays who are not biphobic of being biphobic.:) Just the ones who actually ARE biphobic.
As you know (or can guess) most bisexual or bicurious men 'come out' to gay men first coz that's where the m-m sex is at. And when those minority of gays try to wedge them into another closet, it doesn't give them much ambition to 'come out' of the one they are actually in to the whole world.
Yes it's silly to expect ALL gay-kind to be ambassadors of sexual acceptance, but most do and it's a slap across the face when they turn out to be complete bigots.

Most closeted bi's don't mind being mistaken for hetero coz they are in the closet and haven't disclosed their true sexuality. They DO mind being told that they are gay when they DO disclose their true sexuality.
Nothing to do with homophobia, internalised or externalised! Just annoyance of biphobia.

[whispering]

Well, this is a long thread, and I guess I'll make it a bit longer. There is no question that peoples ideas about sexuality are strange and screwed up. That said, I think there is some experiential basis for a lot of gender ideas. For instance, "bisexual women are just confused, bisexual men are gay." Actually, studies show that women's sexual preference is highly conditional on personality, emotion, security and context, and so it's not uncommon for women to have a husband, get divorced, move in with a woman, move out, hook up with a man, etc. Their preference changes more with the situations in their lives than for men. It's unusual for a man to get divorced, have a relationship with a guy, and then go back to a woman. I've met quite a few men who got involved, or re-involved with men at a later age, and now consider themselves homosexual. I think that's more unusual for women to close the door on men.

[JimmyPlays]

Hello biblkman,

I feel the same way you do. Being Bi is not the same as being Gay. It's easy for me to see and understand the difference. I'm also not out to anyone exce occurpt my wife and the folks I play with. Actually, I don't see any advantage to coming out to my family and friends. It's not just that this is none of their business. I expect there would be to many questions, unwanted judgements a troublesome misunderstandings. Where is the upside? In general, my straight people don't discuss sex much at all, except if there's some problem, like an affair or an indiscretion. However, with my Bi/Gay friends, sex is openly talked about, personally shared and allowed to occur. And frankly that openness is prefered and enjoyed by me.

The typical hetero social groups tend to be living without much of a sexual vocabulary. I think Swingers are the only group where straights and bisexuals observe each other and have real a need share and discuss sex. I've seen a number of straight men admit to their curiosities, but not ever try any m2m activity, but they go on to accept and have a good time being physcially right next to some m2m sexual behavior.

We are in the mists of sexual revolution/evolution (of sorts) and the problems we object to now are very likely to erode and go away.
ie, LGBTQ............

[KDaddy23]

Some people have tunnel vision: They only see the homosexual side of bisexuality and as if the heterosexual side doesn't exist. Tell them that you're about opposite sex stuff and it confuses them because of the usual black and white thinking - if you're not 100% straight, you have to be 100% gay... because nothing else makes sense to them. Maybe it's a lack of education; maybe it's just parrotted ignorance that's been handed down from generation to generation; maybe it's just a thing that people are going to believe whatever they want to believe and no matter how you prove to them that what they believe is wrong and sometimes people can be contrary like this because they can't get their heads around the fact that everything they thought they knew is, in fact, wrong - and they can't admit that they have it all wrong.

There are three things that are never to be discussed: Religion, politics, and sex. So imagine trying to explain bisexuality to someone and they have their hands over their ears - they can't hear it because they're not supposed to hear it and it's still such a forbidden subject that people who have sex with each other regularly can't talk to each other about the sex they're having, let alone any other aspect. Here in 2019, there are still people who believe that sex is for procreation only.

Just some examples of how, even in this day and age, how ignorant we are about such things.

[Long Duck Dong]

US vs them, we and they, them and us, anti and pro, for and against..... its our own thinking, we often do not allow a middle ground either, black or white, dem or rep, male or female......its simplistic and its easy to have one or the other because the moment you add in another variable, things get complicated.......

the moment we say its lack of understanding and knowledge, then the same becomes true of us when we only see people in terms of for or against us, never sitting on the fence and seeing both sides equally......

one of the best situations I read about, was a female porn star who said, I may fuck male sand females for a job but my partner makes love to me, it confuses my critics because they may not know the difference between fucking and love making, I feel sorry for them... and their partners...... and yes I have made love to my partner in front of the camera, people view it as just another fuck flick because they only see porn star labels....

maybe its simply a case of people not seeing a middle ground, just like we often do not

[zgay73]

One day bisexuality will be the norm. Sex and relationships with the same or opposite sex won't even warrant gossip around the water cooler at work. Dreams are free :P

[grover]

How hard is it to separate bisexuality from homosexuality? I can only speak for myself, it boils down to this... Homosexuality is when our primary sexual and emotional interest is for members of our own sex. Heterosexuality is when our primary sexual and emotional interest is for members of the opposite sex. Bisexuality is when we have an additional sexual interest beside our overall preference. My primary sexual preference is for women. For me they are the whole emotional, physical and spiritual package. I have additional sexual interest in men but I would never consider a relationship with a man. For me sex with men is all about the sex. Period. Then there are all the various shades of grey in between... If you're like me then your primary interest is women with a sexual interest in men on the side so that makes me bisexual/leaning heterosexual. If your primary interest is men with a sexual interest in women on the side so that makes you bisexual/leaning homosexual. In short its a muddled and complicated mess but its the existence of secondary interest that separates us from strictly straight or gay. Personally I believe if we weren't so hung up on the duality of sex, more people would self identify as bisexual than gay.

[KDaddy23]

We - bisexuals - know the difference; to us, it's like, "Duh... what rock have y'all been living under?" Humans are confrontational and tribal by nature: If you're not like us, you're against us... and we don't care if you explain what you are... because you're not like us, so you're lying and those who are like us are right. If you're not straight, you're gay... and that's that.

Stupid. Ignorant. In more denial than any bisexual who ever lived. Can't handle the truth. The question for us is should we try to explain some facts of life to those people who doesn't know the difference... or should we let them flounder in their ignorance while we try to be the best bisexuals we can be and keep our own houses in good working order?

[Biwolf]

The last person I told that I was bisexual was very quick to presume that I had been living a lie all my life and that I wanted to be with a man. I like both, but have a preference for women.

[KDaddy23]

People make assumptions about that which they don't know. Again, they hear "bisexual" and automatically think "gay" and in my own experiences with this, I can clarify it for them easily enough but some, jeez, once they've made up their mind that this is what they think it is, there's not much that can be done to change their mind... so I stop trying to. I know the difference and that's what really matters.

A guy said I was gay; I said that I wasn't; he said, "Prove it!" so I told him to go home, get his woman, come back, and I'd prove that I'm not gay when I start having sex with her first. He declined, of course, but he was even dumb enough to say that I'd fuck his woman just to prove my point but I was still gay in his mind.

I said, "Even if that were true - and it isn't - given what we know about a lot of gay men, they wouldn't have sex with a woman even if their life depended on it. So if I'm gay, why would I be so willing to screw her - and do something to you, too? You're just clueless..."

There's no arguing with such people and I learned a long time ago not to waste my time and breath trying to tell them something they don't want to hear or believe.

[bibliss]

The best thing I ever did to develop myself to be a better, more alive, more tuned-in and turned-on heterosexual lover of women was to have, enjoy and appreciate hot sex with another man.

[bibliss]

KDaddy!... I wish there was a Thumps Up or Love It icon here on Bisexual.Com.. if there were, I'd thumbs up and heart almost every one of your great posts.