Discussion Question: Justifying the desire to have sex with others

[glantern954]

We commonly see bisexuals questioning their desire or ability to be faithful in a comitted relationship. We know that people can be attracted to many different aspects of a person. Race, appearance, height, intelligence, endowments, and body type are just some of the things that come to mind.

Is a bisexual's ablity to be faithful to one person any more difficult than say an african american man in an interacial marriage that is also attracted to women of his own race?

How about a man who prefers busty women but falls in love with and marries a small busted woman?

What about a woman who marries a man with a very small penis?

In all of these cases the person could feel like their partner is not capable of giving them everything they desire. Are all of these reasons to expect a partner to allow an open marriage or is bisexuality different in some way?

[Emma7669]

From my perspective, I should think you would look for an open relationship from the get go, or want to have one after some time. In the first case the partners agree to be open and I should think no problem exists in the relationship. In the latter case, however, I can see it developing when one partner becomes unsatisfied.

Since this is where I am at in my relationship, I can tell you my desire does not come from one failing of my partner's, but many. I am as much to blame in the failings since I haven't told him what's up. How does one start a conversation when there no longer seems to be common ground?

The deficiencies were not important enough to prevent the partnering, and they should not be used to justifiy cheating. The justification comes from other aspects of the relationship: he doesn't pick up after himself, she doesn't groom herself as well. In instances like these there is a communication failure. If I had to guess, I would say most relationships end because one or both partners are unable to communicate their wants and desires to the other.

The abberations mentioned may be used to justify wanting sex with others, but in most cases the true justification is that the one who wants to cheat is unable express themselves to get what they want out of the current relationship.

M

[leizy]

I would say the racial one comes closest. For me, it's less an issue of behavior than of identity. In other words, if I have outlets where I can acknowledge and express my bisexuality, am permitted to BE bisexual in my marriage, then there is less an overwhelming desire to get out there and be with a guy also.

In the past, in previous relationships and some days of my current marriage, my being bisexual was extremely threatening and simply not allowed. While I didn't cheat, that desire was there and extremely strong. Now, my wife strongly supports my bisexuality and supports me in acknowledging and expressing it in healthy ways.

So many people are bisexual in so many different ways that I think it is overall an individual choice and internal negotiation - what do I need? But, so many bisexuals are nonmonogamous, either openly or covertly, that there is clearly something here that is different for them. I've worked with transvestites in the past who discussed that when dressed in women's clothes, they were able to connect with parts of themselves, express feelings they couldn't when dressed as a man. In fact, their wives would sometimes encourage them to dress as women, so they could have "girl talk." For me, I think there's something there - I can be submissive, more receptive, less "in charge" when with a guy (or when tied up, but that's a different story), than when I'm being a "straight" guy...

this is a difficult topic. I share your question, and respect those who acknowledge that there is a CHOICE here...

david

[jedinudist]

We commonly see bisexuals questioning their desire or ability to be faithful in a comitted relationship. We know that people can be attracted to many different aspects of a person. Race, appearance, height, intelligence, endowments, and body type are just some of the things that come to mind.

Is a bisexual's ablity to be faithful to one person any more difficult than say an african american man in an interacial marriage that is also attracted to women of his own race?

How about a man who prefers busty women but falls in love with and marries a small busted woman?

What about a woman who marries a man with a very small penis?

In all of these cases the person could feel like their partner is not capable of giving them everything they desire. Are all of these reasons to expect a partner to allow an open marriage or is bisexuality different in some way?

In a word... No.

I have been actively bisexual since I was very little. I tried at various times to force myself to be either gay or straight to no avail. I feel strongly attracted to both genders.

When I fell in Love with my wife, I honestly thought that my need to have sex with another guy would diminish in the face of this beautiful and powerful Love that I felt for her. And it did... for quite a while.

I told her at the very start of our courtship that I had been sexual with both guys and girls, although I didn't think of myself as bisexual at the time (only through my wife's long suffering patience, Love, and acceptance have I finally been able to accept me for myself).

However, the need I feel to have sex with another guy is still there. And, over the years, it has grown to bother me a great deal. It bothers me because I crave the things that I can only get when I am with another guy, and it bothers me because I worried about what this would do to our relationship. I was tortured for a long time by the conflict within- my Love for my wife and my ever present and growing need for the release I get from being sexual with a male friend. I could not see these two things being compatible at all. I could not imagine life without my wife, and my bisexuality was obviously not going anywhere either. I felt like I was trapped between the irrestible force and the immovable object.

But I never asked for an open relationship. That was not something I could do. It was not something I wanted. When we entered into this marriage, we did so with the expectation that it was just the two of us. Not the two of us and what ever guy I was going to have sex with.

Through the process of coming to terms with my orientation, my wife and I realized that these things were seperate:

My Love for her.

My need for sex with a male friend.

She actually told me that she see's it this way (and that is truly the way it is, but I didn't want to try to make her see it because I didn't want to come across as one of those old cliche's about sex and love and sex outside the marriage). She has told me that it's ok for me to seek a male friend to satisfy this need and that she does not see it as cheating. In other words, I indeed have her permission to find a friend with benefits if I want to. And I want to, but at the same time, I'm not sure I want to.

The Love I feel for my wife is astounding. It was that way before we came to terms with all this and it is still as strong as ever today. She is my Love, my advocate, my peace, and my life. I could never "love" anyone else, male or female. Up until I fell in Love with my wife, all the sex I had in my life was friends with benefits type sex whether with a male or female. Yes, there was a bond, but it was a bond of friendship, not love.

We understand that and it is that understanding that has brought us to the point where if I find a male friend and have sex it is ok.

However, I would have never expected that my needs in this area would justify my expecting or even hoping that my wife would make such a loving offer. She did this because she wants me to be able to satisfy the cravings I feel and that bother me so deeply so often. It was purely an offer. That's how it had to be for us.

So the question you ask is a difficult one to which I think there is no "pat" answer. It will be different for everyone.

When I entered into my marriage, I did so understanding that for ALL intents and purposes, we expected that we were only in Love with each other, and that we would only be sexual with each other. It would have been wrong for me to EXPECT my wife to allow me to pursue sex with a male friend because that was not part of our understanding when we started our relationship.

I think that each person will have to look at what it is that might be an issue (the race, the size, the orientation) and bring that up at the get-go.

Some things will be more difficult for some folks to deal with as time goes on. It will be different for each person based on many factors. As far as orientation goes, I think that may indeed be more difficult to overcome as it is not a choice, it is the way we are made. And trying to go against something like that causes allot of pain, turmoil, stress, etc., and can make you miserable even in the presence of joy. Cheating is cheating - if you are having sex outside of your marriage or relationship, and your spouse or partner does not know about it AND has not offered their "ok" or permission, you are cheating. And cheating is wrong.

OK, I'll end this novella here :)

[smokey]

Love, which needs no excuse is the best reason to stay faithful. When I am with someone I do not cheat...period....even though I might be tempted....when I am single, I play the field as I see fit...but once I meet someone I want to be with then I am faithful to them. Enough said.

[Haemoglobin]

just shortly ago i opened a thread about beeing faithful as a bisexual person because i do have problems concentrating on one person only even though i love the someone . . i think thats maybe the worst thing you can do to someone , to cheat - but as a bisexual person in a relationship with the other sex is maybe smth almost impossible to keep because you do have a craving for the other gender almost constantly ..at least i do . . so i dont know , im not much help then here i guess in this thread because i say , sometimes cheating is inevitable . . . i know it sounds ugly .

[deremarc]

My first reaction to this would be no, it doesn't justify it.

My train of thought is that whether you are bi, straight or gay you are not attracted to the entire gender, you are attracted to individual people.

And if a person wants to have sex with someone of the opposite gender it is not normally considered acceptable unless you have entered into an open relationship.

As a straight female in a relationship, I am still (sometimes strongly) attracted to other members of the opposite sex. But that attraction does not justify me fooling around on my husband. Do I have to deny myself something I want? Yes. Is it the right thing to do? Again, I think yes.

But, with the recent realization of my husband being bi, and seeing firsthand how strong this desire can be even if you try to escape it, I would say it seems as if more than any other issue, there might be such a need (as opposed to simple desire) to be with a member of the same sex and that this need can overwhelm you (and you might not feel complete without it)...and then it almost has me saying yes.

Almost, but not quite. I still think if you are monogomus, you should not violate that (without the other person's permission). And you should not "expect" your partner to be okay with it.(hope for yes :) )

But, I can't imagine any other need, for a certain physical/emotional characteristic being as strong as this.

I also know, that the issue is a very complex one. I know that there are needs of my husband, that I can never fulfill.

So, I end on an "i don't know".

[glantern954]

There are lots of great responses here. This question is more about exploring our thoughts on the issue and less about trying to find an answer that is right for everyone.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to consider the question and respond.

[FireRaven]

The way I see it, you only need to justify a desire when it goes against an agreement. Then the justification is only so you don't have to take any responsibility for your actions. Yes, it's a truly stinky way to operate but many do and NOT just bis.

Having never broken an agreement myself and then having had all of those agreements spit back in my face, my new approach is to never make an agreement again.

[Just_Gem]

To Justify = to try to make right something you know to be wrong.

That said, when I feel the need to justify something I first need to find out why within my self. What that is doesn't matter, as in this thread of sex outside the relationship to fulfill desires that aren't being satisfied within it. My hubby and I are both bisexual and have talked long and deeply about what we are and want - from each other as well as when we play. For both of us, our relationship with each other takes priority over any other desires we may have. We have set limits on our play as well that are right for us and we both abide by those limits. When one of us plays alone, it is always with someone of the same sex with the full knowledge and consent of the other. We prefer to play with couples and will always play together with them. We have played with a few select singles, sometimes together and sometimes alone (same sex) depending on the situations and people involved.

Anyway just my :2cents: :bibounce:

Gemm :rainbow:

[jedinudist]

But, with the recent realization of my husband being bi, and seeing firsthand how strong this desire can be even if you try to escape it, I would say it seems as if more than any other issue, there might be such a need (as opposed to simple desire) to be with a member of the same sex and that this need can overwhelm you (and you might not feel complete without it)...and then it almost has me saying yes.

Almost, but not quite. I still think if you are monogomus, you should not violate that (without the other person's permission). And you should not "expect" your partner to be okay with it.(hope for yes :) )

That's how it is for me - a need to be with another guy. And I never would think to "expect" my wife to be ok with it. I am thankful that she is, but it is not something that should be "expected" of the other partner.

[creative_ly_inclined]

great discussion.

as someone who came out while in a loving and committed relationship... this topic is a central obstacle.

for some people, the desire for a physical connection is the only issue,
but as i am one who cannot be physical without a soul-connection,
this has given another twist to the situation.

and so... what about the related question of justifying the desire to love deeply more than one person at a time?

i have come to the place in my relationship with my spouse where i am permitted to persue a loving relationship with women, with or without him. this was not always the case, and at different times, our commitment was altering in its degrees of openness.

because there are so many people who do not believe one can love more than one at once or who wouldn't want to, my journey to find a female partner has an extra dash of challenge.

i'm up for it. that's all i know.

[Azrael]

It's not an easy thing to deal with. My last relationship was an open one, but despite how open we were with one another the jealousy factor got pretty intense. I must have asked her a billion times "are you sure you're ok with this?" and she always said she was, but there was something lurking below the surface. This was not the only thing that caused us to fracture but it was definetely a factor. It creates the potential for some pretty perverse double standards. I can't really blame her for wanting me all to herself, but I couldn't get over her having cheated on me with my best friend at the time. Honesty is critical, and at some point we just ceased to communicate effectively.

[DiamondDog]

I know that if I were to get married to either a man or a woman I would want to have an open relationship since I need sex with both men and women.

[Herbwoman39]

I'll be honest, when I *thought * I was straight and in my first marriage, I cheated. My justification was that my husband at the time was not fulfilling my needs.

Sex only twice in 18 months drove me to the point that I was constantly in need but not having the itch scratched. His excuse was that he "just wasn't that interested in sex". I found out after we divorced that he's been in the (of all the ironies) bisexual closet all this time. In my uneducated opinion, I think he leaned more towards homosexuality than hetero because sex was never frequenty and there were times he tried anal.

So I found somewhere else to get my needs met. Oddly I never really felt any guilt over it because i tried everything I could think of to make that relationship work.

My current marriage is a whole different story. I wouldn't hurt hubby that way for the world. Even though on that side of my bisexuality I am technically still a virgin, I could never cheat. Even if he were to give me permission, I honestly don't know if I could go through with it. I know that even with permission he would be pushing his own feelings aside in order to make me happy. I just can't hurt him like that. Not for something as temporary a sex.

[Avocado]

We commonly see bisexuals questioning their desire or ability to be faithful in a comitted relationship. We know that people can be attracted to many different aspects of a person. Race, appearance, height, intelligence, endowments, and body type are just some of the things that come to mind.

Is a bisexual's ablity to be faithful to one person any more difficult than say an african american man in an interacial marriage that is also attracted to women of his own race?

How about a man who prefers busty women but falls in love with and marries a small busted woman?

What about a woman who marries a man with a very small penis?

In all of these cases the person could feel like their partner is not capable of giving them everything they desire. Are all of these reasons to expect a partner to allow an open marriage or is bisexuality different in some way?

Bang on. I'm not against open relationships and orgies but I don't think we should get special treatment, nor do I think we should be branded as being incapable of monogany. In my opinion we've faced up to our attraction to one gender, and come out the other side still knowing we're attracted to the other.