GLBT Rights -- A global view?

[JohnnyV]

Okay, my 13th vow not to post on the forums has been broken so many times, I surrender -- I am the #1 Bisexual.com Forum Troll!!!! Or #2, actually, since I think Arana still has twice as many posts as I do! Given that I've now surrendered to my status as the Internet version of the guy in the back who won't shut up in history class, here's a question/comment, etc:

Lately we've been hearing a lot about American politics. I think it's great to talk about it. But I also want to get people's thoughts about a bigger worldwide context. Here are some things to ponder, if anyone has a viewpoint:

--With Mexico's recent election (thanks to the guy from Missouri who brought this up in another thread), all of North America is now under the control of conservatives. I don't know Mexico's stance on GLBT rights, but I do know the Canadian PM wants to roll back gay marriage. Canada, the US, and Mexico all have right-wing governments. How does Canadian conservatism, Mexican conservatism, and American conservatism differ, especially where GLBT rights are concerned?

--Exclusing Mexico, Latin America has gone left. The vast tract of countries once ruled by right-wing dictatorships seems to be in the hands of progressives and reformers.... but this booming leftism hasn't spawned much interest in GLBT rights. Is it possible that GLBT rights is only "progressive" in wealthy First World countries where we have the luxury to care about sexual orientation? Maybe Brazilians and Bolivians are so worried about poverty, they just don't give a f*** about gays and lesbians.

--Let's think about Europe. Okay, I know lots of Europeans are on the site here, and I don't want to step on their toes... but why not? Can we really say that Europe is more liberal than the US? About GLBT rights, yes. But what about race and immigrants? It's interesting that gay marriage has made inroads in countries like the Netherlands and Germany, while those countries have seen the rise of intense xenophobia and racism. The riots that swept across France just make this even more clear (last year). Again, this begs the question -- how can so many Europeans be so liberal about GLBT rights while being so reactionary when it comes to letting foreigners into their societies? Doesn't the case of Europe prove that being pro-gay doesn't always go hand in hand with being tolerant in general?

--China and India, the two looming superpowers. Their records on gay rights: abominable. Why does it seem like GLBT rights only occupy a main role in First World countries?

Okay, just some ramblings.... I wanted to throw some international questions out there for thought, since so much of the recent posting has been US-focused.

Smooches,
J

[Long Duck Dong]

lol ok in new zealand the civil union bill has been passed as law

civil union bill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_unions_in_New_Zealand)

new zealand is classed as a christian country, but ruled by a multi party goverment, and it was decided that the vote over the bill should be a personal conscience vote.... this simple means that each MP was told to vote, NOT by party ruling, but by personal beliefs and feelings

the march by the destiny church ( a christian group ) was compared to the KKK and street gangs, when the pastor stated that either he got his way and all gays and lesbians were stuck in a corner and totally ignored, or there would be trouble..... the police were involved when a number of attacks ensured against protestors in the street and a number of destiny chruch members were issued offical warnings by police

the destiny church threats included taking over the govt, and changing the law of new zealand to benefit only 2 parent families that lived a christian lifestyle... they failed as the new zealand public spoke with their votes at the next election and the destiny party failed to reach the 5 % vote needed to gain any place in govt

groups like christians in support of the civil union bill and the student christian union, stood up as stated that, DESPITE their beliefs about homosexuality, jesus stated that whomever denied the least of his children, also denied jesus, and in their eyes, it was to be equality for all and let jesus judge us all at judgement day, or new zealand would continue to show its hypocritical face, by denying the basic right of marriage to some people but claiming that that new zeland was one people, one nation, one set of laws and rules for all

[Driver 8]

Maybe Brazilians and Bolivians are so worried about poverty, they just don't give a f*** about gays and lesbians.
Brazil has been quietly passing various domestic partnership laws and the like. Right now I believe they're all local, not national, but the issues aren't being ignored.

[Azrael]

How long have they been out from under a military dictatorship now, only like 20 years or so?

[smokey]

At the risk of offending alot of people I am really not into this whole gay rights thing. Why?

First off what gays, lesbians, transgender and bisexuals want (or should want) are the basic human rights that are afforded all other people i.e. straight people or closeted bi's or gays which leads to:

second of all: Most staight people simply do not understand and when they hear "gay rights" the general impluse is to think that something special is being demanded and that is far from the truth, SO in this context anti-gay activitists use that ignorance as a dividing wedge. They have made gay marriage such a devisive issue that it would simply be wise to drop the whole thing and to focus on partners rights. When phrased in this context most straights see no problem with it...marriage can come later. Trouble is the so-called gay leadership is so full of itself and so insistant on the world accepting them as gay that they have become their own worst enemies and hurt their (our) cause more than they help.

What we should be stressing is our normalicy and going out of our way not to alienate the very people we need because everytime we do, we play right into our enemies hands.

[JohnnyV]

How long have they been out from under a military dictatorship now, only like 20 years or so?


Brazil was democratized in the 1980s, if I am not mistaken. It was the same decade that most of the neighboring countries also made a gradual transition to democracy.

[12voltman59]

To be honest--I don't care much about gay rights or black rights or such-I care about human rights and hold to the dictum that "rights denied to the one or the few are rights denied to all..."


I am concerned that the majority of "rights" or more acurately, civil liberties that we enjoy and expect as Americans are under threat to a greater degree than they have ever been in the relatively short history of the country and the threat comes not from "fifth columnists," "bolsheviks", "anarchists", "commmies" or even from Al Qaeda or other radical Islamists--it comes from many of those who so loudly proclaim they "love freedom!"

George Will--a well known conservative columnist and political pundit here in the states once said on the telly and in his columns that, as "traditional conservatives" ----"they" want to see the clock set back to the way things in America were like in say, around 1910--now let me think what the country was like in 1910--women could not vote, the rights of workers was slight if at all in existense, capitalist robber barons ruled the day and instead of making a living and progressing in the world--the average worker went into the hole everytime he got his paycheck (remember the old song that Tennessee Ernie Ford made famous? "one more day and deeper in debt...old Saint Peter don't take my soul..I owe my soul to the company store..."), there were Jim Crow laws in place not only the south but the north as well, there was absolutely no sort of social safety net....just to list a few things of the "good old days..."

To religious conservatives--they are even more atavistic--they want to set the clock back to say----450 AD or something----

Glory halleluah....

[Scooby]

OK i'm in the uk so I'll answer. No I dont agree that europe is more open minded than the US. Yes Gay marriage ( as such ) has been brought in recently, but that doesnt mean our nation is more open minded! You want to talk Europe polotics then go ahead, I'm all for that. Its all crap at the min. But you didnt ask any specifics so thats all I can say. As for equal oppirtunity rights then its getting better for the minority but the majority is suffering a lot!

If you have any specifics about European law then I'd be happy to comment but at the min thats all I can say!

S xx

[Azrael]

To be honest--I don't care much about gay rights or black rights or such-I care about human rights and hold to the dictum that "rights denied to the one or the few are rights denied to all..."


I am concerned that the majority of "rights" or more acurately, civil liberties that we enjoy and expect as Americans are under threat to a greater degree than they have ever been in the relatively short history of the country and the threat comes not from "fifth columnists," "bolsheviks", "anarchists", "commmies" or even from Al Qaeda or other radical Islamists--it comes from many of those who so loudly proclaim they "love freedom!"


Precisely, couldn't have put it better. I can say from nearly getting eaten by the state of Florida's mental health system, that still in this supposedly modern liberal existence, that human rights EVERYWHERE are in a serious state of jeopardy. Not trying to bitch about my own situation at all, I played my hand. I saw a lot of decent people get screwed of the most basic dignities. My own mother (former psychiatric employee) told me I shouldn't expect to have ANY rights in a mental health facility. They had signs posted on the walls, so I knew I had rights. Nobody knows the horror I've seen but me and my fellow crazies. I don't really feel like going into details because it makes me really upset in many respects. Rights were an illusion, end of story.
:eek: