Hard to talk about [Archive]

LouiseBrookslover

Jul 11, 2006, 6:06 PM

smokey

Jul 11, 2006, 7:20 PM

I had a man force himself on me once (orally not anally) and at the time I was quite shaken up by it. I was about 20 or 21 and if he had come onto me, I might (who am I kidding, I would) have said yes but he never gave me the option. My advice is to simply put it behind you. Know that is part of your past and not to dwell upon it. Just because somebody else was a fuck up doesn't mean that you have to allow them the power to fuck up your life because of it. Be who you are, explore your feminine side, your life will be richer for it, or in the closing words of Joyce's Ulysees as spoken by Molly Bloom...."Yes, I said yes, I will yes...yes, yes, yes!"

It is the only approproiate response to life.

littlerayofsunshine

Jul 11, 2006, 7:25 PM

*hugs* to this brave strong man with a lovely heart.

I am not a man, but have suffered rape, more than once, more than one different person. I can understand most of the emotions that go along with it.

I just want to give you *hugs*

rayosytruenos

Jul 11, 2006, 7:52 PM

I am a guy. That goes with some things.

I like women. I'm tall, kinda handsome, or so some say. I'm athletic. I like sports. I'm strong physically. I'm always there for my friends.

It doesn't go with some other things. I like other guys. I've fallen for other men. I cry sometimes just for the hell of it. I like to cultivate my feminine side. But the thing that really doesn't go with it is this.

I am a man and I was raped.

15 years ago today.

And I still can't get a handle on that.

I guess my question is if any other guys have any experience with this. Every year the loneliness and alienation around this day are crushing.

Sorry to hear that.

I haven't been raped, but have been abused, not once, but several times, when I was a kid... Damn! In the end I have said it here... what I was not very keen on doing it, but if it helps you, I don't mind then.

I don't know if a rape or an abuse can be compared. I think about my own past experiences, and I think I felt so humiliated, worthless, helpless, loveless, etc.... as I think anyone suffering a rape could feel. You feel used, you feel yourself like trash, you ask yourself what you have done to deserve or to make that happen...

It's such a time-bomb of feelings, that if it happens when you are a grown-up and it's hard to deal with it, how much harder it is when you are just a kid and you are developing in all senses, mental and physical... Your mind is not (at least in not everyone) ready to accept, understand, overcome these happenings and you can become an apparently normal person (probably not that normal, probably been not very social, but reclusive, shy...), but now and then bouts of those memories can come back, even if you have blanked them for years...

Sometimes those episodes come back to your mind and made you think a lot about who you really are, why you feel the way you feel. Am I gay/bisexual because of what happened? Would I have become a normal (read straight guy) if those happenings would not have taken place? Why did I weep and fight to try to avoid it, if it seems that it wasn't unavoidable? What was the point in shouting for help and telling to stop, not to do it? Why I felt so ashamed, guilty, dirty and abhorred of myself for letting it happen, for not being able to prevent it, to avoid it?

What kind of mixed messages maybe pass through your mind for some nanoseconds? What kind of mixed messages my body gave to my mind, even when I was loudly weeping, shouting, and fighting, rejecting what it was being inflicted on myself, while my little body seemed to just react to the mechanical stimulations?

This means that actually I enjoyed it? No, I don't think so. I have spoken to others that have suffered from similar/different abuse/rape and they always have told me, that it's not my fault that my body reacted that way, but it was clear that in my mind I was not enjoying it, as it was against my will, and I was fighting, weeping and shouting to prevent it, but been not big enough to overcome the aggressor, I should not been ashamed for the outcome or for what that made me think about myself...

Well, I think I prefer not to go on speaking about this on the forum. There are several organizations helping people who have suffered this kind of abuse/rape. The ones I've found more useful are the ones run by people who have themselves been abused/raped.

If you want more information, I could give you some in a private message, although for your country and area, probably if you make a google search, you could find suitable groups.

All the best,

ray :male:

P.S.: Some others have posted their own experiences while I was typing my answer. Sorry to hear that you were forced/abused/raped. I hope you have not many mental scars left or that you have been powerful enough to overcome them.

All the best.

allbimyself

Jul 11, 2006, 8:31 PM

((((((((((((((( LBL )))))))))))))))))

Been there, tho it's been much longer. I was 12. I mentioned it here: http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67

I don't have much advice to give you, though. The only thing I can tell you is that it was NOT your fault. I can tell you how I got past it, I just told myself it wasn't my fault and that it didn't change my value as a human being. Then I got on with my life.

I know I make it sound simple, but in reality it was. I just had to tell myself that until I accepted it.

HTH

Allbi

JohnnyV

Jul 12, 2006, 12:50 AM

I survived a great deal of violence and exploitation, in many forms. It's so hard to talk about, I don't.

But I want to tell you that all around you there are people with these memories in them. You aren't alone. If it seems like many of us are normal and unaffected, that's only because we have to keep a straight face, or we'll come undone. Sometimes when you carry those pains inside you, the best you can do is try to function from day to day. "Focus on the next 24 hours" was what someone told me.

Peace/STrength,
J

citystyleguy

Jul 12, 2006, 1:17 AM

raped, no!; growing up and beaten senseless by my father over the years, repeatedly, yes! these are acts of violence against another, for no other reason then to exert power over that person.

you are the good one, the decent one, the caring one, and the instigator of that violence is the monster that crossed your path one day and got away with it; you survived it, went on with your life, but that incident is with you always and it is coming to terms with the act that makes your heart, your mind, and your soul ache!

it is very difficult to say what could work with you, knowing so little about you. however, one thing you can do is talk about it, no matter how difficult, otherwise it remains, deep inside of you, eating away, little by little, and that is what the monster has left for you.

so open up, and let it out; that way others can help you come to terms with this act.

from a friend in this walk of life!

zarine

Jul 12, 2006, 3:36 AM

my heart totally goes out to you. guys have it even tougher with this type of thing because of the way our society is... exceedingly homophobic and narrow-minded about masculinity. so the humiliation might be even deeper for guys because there's no way to let out some of those feelings. it just gets internalized and festers. please don't think you are alone in this. i have heard that rape happens a lot to men also, but it almost never gets reported. my boyfriend had been drugged and raped by some guys that he knew... he wasn't awake thru the experience, so that may make a difference in the level of emotional trauma he suffered compared to yours, but i imagine it was humiliating nevertheless. he tried to tell other people about it and they didn't believe him until the guys pulled the same trick on some more people. he only told me about what happened once and didn't really express much emotion about it, but he's always like that... always trying to be unemotional (he flatters himself that he's all logic and reason... spock wanna-be). but it was one of the many reasons he decided to turn away from the gay life. please feel free to discuss your feelings so we can help you out! there is no reason for you to suffer in silence, especially among this group.

whichway06

Jul 12, 2006, 6:22 AM

I feel very sad for your pain, I have never been abused so I do not know your pain personally. But it does make me feel sad. It is easy to tell someone to just put something like this behind you and get on with your life. But the truth is it can be a source of persoanl haunting. This is a place you do not want to go. The best advice I can give is to find a person in the proper field to talk with. The best way I can explain this is that rape or something simular is an emotional brain damage. This can be fixed, I have friends both male and female that have been raped. It takes time to heal the emotional damage but you cannot just try and hide it or stuff your feelings and pretend it never happened. You say around the date this happened you have trouble with it, that tells me you are being haunted by this emotional thing. There are a lot of people around that specailize in helping people that have been raped, do whats best for yourself and look on up. I wish you the best and I hope you over come this. Thanks whichway

Long Duck Dong

Jul 12, 2006, 8:44 AM

i wanna share something...lol

rape....its a violation of your body......but not your spirit, your heart, your essense

its a person forcing their will upon your body, but they can't touch who you are inside.... and cos of that, you become a survivor of a experience as a unwilling person.... but you are not a victim..... a victim is a person that becomes trapped by their experience and lets that experience run their minds, hearts and lives.... a survivor is a person that say * hey, i was violated against my will but i am still in control of my life, and i am stronger thru the experience of the rape, cos now i can share my experience and help others *

i, too was sexually assualted and interfered with, but instead of curling up in a ball, i confronted the person afterwards and spoke with them and told them that if they had asked, I would have been willing and open.... and i understood that gay sex was not a easy thing to ask somebody for..... i spent a couple of hours with the person, and out of respect for them, I become their sex partner for a few years until they were able to move on and enter a gay friendly enivorment, simply cos i enjoyed the sex contact, and also to prevent another person become caught up in the actions a person that meant no harm, just handled a sexual experience the wrong way

how old was i ???? i was in my young teens and because of certain laws, I will not reveal the ages nor details of the other person... but they were mid to late teens

not every rape is a sexual agro act, sometimes its the only way a person can get relief, other times its a misunderstanding and mixed messages....and sometimes the offender is a victim of circumstance themselves

but for some people, being sexually insulted is a blow to their emotional and mental state of being... and a lot of it has to do with society treating them like they were the ones at fault.....and having counselled and dealt with a lot of sexual offenders, often its the people they hurt, that become the ones on trial and humilated by the justice system...... being a person who has been sexually assaulted is a differcult thing to deal with, without having to decide if they speak up against the offender and have the justice system rip them to threads, or sit in silence, and trying to heal and repair the damage to themselves without knowing how to heal...

LouiseBrookslover

Jul 12, 2006, 12:27 PM

I'm pretty overwhelmed, touched, and heartened by all the people who took the time to write such thoughtful responses to my problem, both on the forum and in private messages. I haven't been here long, but in the short time that I have been, I've noticed that this board is special. I don't see any flaming or nastiness, just open discussion of problems and feelings. I really wasn't sure there was a place like this on the internet, and I'm pleased there appears to be. I can't compliment the persons behind this site enough. By your kindness and love, you've increased my pride in myself and in my bisexuality. You guys are fabulous role/peer models for me during the time in which I'm coming out.

Smokey......I love that line from Ulysses. I kinda referenced something similar in an earlier thread when I talked about how we can either choose the life force or the death force. "Yes, yes, yes" is choosing the life force and I try to do that. Read that line when you're 15 and you wouldn't get it. Read that line when you're 31 and you realize how profound and difficult saying "yes" can be. It certainly is a great antidote for a situation in which my "yes" was never asked for. Thanks!

Littlerayofsunshine......You chose your handle well. Sometimes a guy's wounded masculine energy can only be soothed by the gentle, beautiful comfort of a woman. That spirit really came through in your tender words. I don't really know you, but if your words are any indication, you are the best of women and you exude a very powerful feminine force that really made me feel better.

Rayosyruenos.......I was raped, but not physically abused in my youth like you were. Sometimes I wish my parents had actually done so rather than scar me with their poisonous anger and emotional abuse which I had to bathe in for 18 years. Not until I was being forced down, beaten, and raped, did I feel physical abuse...but strangely it didn't seem unfamiliar. I guess our minds and bodies are more connected that we might guess.......you are right, it is very difficult particularly when this happens during your sexual development. I guess I'm fairly lucky in that I was already having bi thoughts and I am fairly certain that I would be bi now even if this hadn't happened. It did impart a lot of guilt to the act of sex with a man (LIKE MORE OF THAT IS NEEDED) although a very kind, gentle older man really helped me with that a few years later. I needed, and luckily found, a couple of compassionate lovers in my late teens that I lost my virginity to. The first, a kind, wordly Jewish girl from New York who really took a Kansas country boy under her wing sexually; the second, a lovely older man who was patient and made love to me only when I was ready and then supported me throughout. He remains the only person I've told about this. Those two really saved my sexuality, because I was stuck with the rape as my first sexual experience and I really needed to be shown that sex could be a beautiful thing.....I suppose posting on this board is my first step in telling people about this. I feel as if the time is finally right to get this pain out.

Allbimyself......Thanks for leading me to that thread. Sounds fairly similar to my experience and I take a great deal of comfort from that. I have gone through several periods of homosexual renunciation but I think those are gone forever as I finally learn to love and forgive myself. Where you are now sexually is very similar to where I am. It's not really the place here on a nonfantasy thread, but I really enjoy having a woman present while I have sex with a man.....during my 20s I, too, kept both sides of me segregated. It was like I wasn't even the same person. If I believed that, i could accept the hypocrisy and the lies without thinking of them as lies and hypocrisy. Maybe that is why I do enjoy MMF now. I cannot help but use every part of my mind, heart, and soul without compartmentalizing myself as anything but an erotic person.......I understand what you mean about middle age creeping up on you. I recently broke up with a lover I had been with since my early 20s and putting my life back together since has been hard as I have never really had an adult life without this person......

JohnnyV....sounds a lot like "staying in the moment". It's the best advice I know of, and I try to live by it as much as possible. I get in trouble when I project too much!

Citystyleguy....Thanks! This is my first step in opening up about this. I've told a grand total of one live person about this. I didn't even tell my lover of 10 years....someone who I was closer to than anyone. I can't tell you guys how much having this soundoff makes me feel. When I was first raped, I didn't tell the police, the doctor, anything. The only thing I did at all was get tested, but I didn't let on why I was getting tested. I'm beginning to think I need some delayed therapy. I wasn't honest with myself back then but now I'm ready for some healing. You guys have been a great start.

Zarine....your boyfriend may be logical like Spock, but he has a warm and trusting heart to tell you about this. I couldn't find it in me to tell even those I was closest to, but I'm finding the courage thanks to you guys. I do hope my days of suffering in silence can end. I've found real help from all of you, much more help than I ever thought could come. I'm finding that I really thrive in places like this, where I can be myself and meet other people who are dealing with similar issues. I'm a niche person who often feels lost in the general population.

Whichway.....this thread has really encouraged me to get some therapy about this. For too long, I've convinced myself that this isn't a problem and I simply must face it. You're right, if the anniversary still bothers me, I'm carrying a lot of emotional pain.

longduck......your spirit certainly wasn't damaged, as that is about the most tender act of mercy I've ever heard of. My own rape was a violent act of power that involved a weapon and I doubt he would even want my forgiveness. But if it had been purely sexual, I would like to flatter myself that I could forgive him like you did.....to give your body to someone who had wronged it in that way, I'm not sure if it's advisable, but the artist, romantic, and spirit in me can see it for the beautiful act that it was. You sound like an amazing person. :flag3:

Rose Lousie Bennett

Jul 12, 2006, 2:54 PM

Herbwoman39

Jul 12, 2006, 3:00 PM

Like LittleRayOfSunshine, I am a woman and I was raped. Once by someone I thought was a friend. Once by my first husband. Anally.

I understand what you are feeling. I refused to let either man have power over me. I don't call myself a victim. I call myself a survivor.

I got to this place by talking about what happened. I talked to my friends. I talked to the people in my online community. I talked to any supportive human being who would listen to me.

I kept reminding myself that those two men wanted something from me but didn't know how to ask or thought that they could just take what they wanted.

It is NOT your fault. You did NOTHING wrong. Keep reminding yourself of that every day if you have to. Plus, you can always talk to us here :-)

LouiseBrookslover

Jul 12, 2006, 4:56 PM

It's sickening for me to realize just how many women have been the victim of sexual assault. The problem is much worse than we are led to believe.

You know, when bi sex is good.......when I'm with a man and he is penetrating me, when I am giving myself to him, one of the great thrills is for me to imagine that I am seeing maybe just a little bit of what a woman feels during sex.

I guess it goes both ways. If I've seen a woman's pleasure, I guess I've seen her pain by experiencing this type of violation.

Rose Louise and Herbwoman.....thank you for sharing what happened to you, but thanks mostly for your love. The hugs are certainly needed right about now! Herbwoman, I know the pain of being raped there, and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Herbwoman39

Jul 12, 2006, 6:06 PM

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))) ))))))))))))))))))))

Us survivors have to stick together hun. Take good care of yourself today. I'm just a PM away if you ever need to talk.

bornintoit

Jul 12, 2006, 6:19 PM

I can't really add anything here apart from my own experience.

I was also forced to have sex by a guy that I was seeing although I didn't fight against it because I was scared and I was sexually abused when I was 15 by a guy off the internet. I thank my lucky stars that i'm not one of those statistics of DEAD children that have been lured by sexual predators off the internet. Either way the feelings of worthlessness, self-hate etc is a terrible thing but time is a great healer and talking about it will help you along your path of recovery. I was on anti-depressants, therapy (though I quit after one session lol) and I had several eating problems but things are slowly getting better, my self-esteem has risen, I am not on anti-depressants and I went back to college after quitting and am now about to start my second year at University.

I wish you all the luck in the world and karma will bite them in the ass one of these days :)

Dee Dee x :flag1:

littlerayofsunshine

Jul 12, 2006, 6:59 PM

I second what Herbwoman said. We all do need to stick together in spirit. And I too am just a PM away.

You chose the best words when you say that you give yourself to someone. It is a beautiful thing and shows that you have a deep and loving soul. Our world is different from people who have not had this experience of rape, but it doesn't mean that our world is ugly. Even though sometimes the past breaks through into our daylight, night time. I see it as an opportunity to acknowlege how wonderful sex can be when it is done with ones heart and soul open and involved. Even during a one time encounter. I Sense you are a very passionate man, being in touch with yourself male/feminine sides, you have retained all of your power and have gained even more.

Thank you for your sweet gentle kind words to me. I started to cry, It nourished my soul. Which we all need sometimes.

*hugs*

Azrael

Jul 13, 2006, 1:47 AM

I can't think of anything witty or profound to say, which is not the purpose of this post. Offering you my support is. I too am but an electronic communique away.

LouiseBrookslover

Jul 13, 2006, 7:42 PM

Thanks bornintoit...I hope you realize I'm always here for you, as I am for any of the people on this thread who told me their experience with rape. I love all of you.

Littlerayofsunshine.....You have the "gentlest pen" I think I've ever encountered. Just the words you choose seem to comfort me in a way in which I can't really describe. I'm glad that I made you feel good, too!

Azrael. Thanks for everything. I am really enjoying getting to know you.

canuckotter

Jul 13, 2006, 10:02 PM

I have my own experience... Certainly nothing to compare with what most people in this thread have been through. A friend of mine was living in residence and I ended up meeting a bunch of the peope on her floor and being sort of friendly with them. One night a group of us went out to the bar. Well, one of the people on the floor had a couple friends staying over, and being innocent, I offered to let one of them crash on my couch rather than on the floor of a rez room (the carpets were from the 70s -- NOT a nice place to sleep!). This was after many, many drinks, by the way... So we headed back to my place, with me drunk and him not (or at least not very), and he kept pressuring me and pressuring me and I was too drunk to say no. It wasn't exactly a rape, but it sure wasn't consent either. When he was done, he left. I was somewhat upset about it... I remember being vaguely depressed and angry... Mostly feeling stupid... Then I went to visit my friend in residence a couple days later and some of her floormates were there and they told me that this guy said I'd tricked him and raped him.

I was shocked. Speechless. I'd raped him? What? How could I respond to that? Time froze, and I couldn't move, breathe, react, think.

After a brief pause that felt like an eternity, they continued. "We know you. We know you wouldn't do that. That fucker raped you, didn't he?" If they hadn't asked me that, I probably would have continued to be depressed and never really thought about it, but it clicked in my mind. No, not a rape -- but damn well close enough. So I explained what had happened, and they nodded and said they were glad it wasn't worse.

For me, that incident rarely comes up. I couldn't even tell you what time of year it happened. I don't know the guy's name any more, or for that matter even the names of most of the people on the floor. But it still makes me vaguely angry and sad sometimes.

So. Not even really a rape. But I thought I'd share anyway.

Nara_lovely

Jul 14, 2006, 8:23 AM

Ok...female here. Molested from the age of three and a half. I was finally able to stop it myself at 14. I had counselling over it and although it's still painful memories, I've been quite stable, giving and loving through my life.
Always within me was and is my strength, my worth, it was kept safe. I know it's there, and it is incredibly valuable.

The original post from LouiseBrookslover indicated the emotions during this particular day.
Certain times of the year effect me much more than others. I don't 'feel' settled at Christmas or my birthdays (times when assaults were linked to the occasion). I usually withdraw from people, and can't muster the same level of cheerfulness that others do so naturally.
So yeah, I understand where your feelings are.

It's only been the last 3 years that I have had a group of exceptional friends...they accept me, and I open up to them. Letting them get close seems to help. I like myself for who I am...and have given them a chance to see the real me. Wow, they keep coming back for more! It still makes me feel amazed, that people like being around me.
So LouiseBrookslover...I think the 'Every year the loneliness and alienation around this day are crushing' will diminish, as you take a chance on friends and let them prove to you, that not everyone wants to 'take' from you. The giving people are there...let them give...*hugs*

jedinudist

Jul 14, 2006, 9:55 AM

We're here for you, whenever you need us. I can be reached on Yahoo IM as Jedinudist.

I have also had to endure sex I did not consent to a few times. Don't let someone else's failure define who you are, soil your spirit, or make you live in fear.

It was their failure, not yours.

We pray for you and everyone else here who had experienced this.

Blessed Be~