Hope for Organized Religion as well

[12voltman59]

Religion Taking A Left Turn?
Conservative Christians Watch Out: There's A Big Churchgoing Group Seeking Political Power

July 10, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reverend Tony Campolo said: "We are furious that the religious right has made Jesus into a Republican. That's idolatry." (CBS)


Quote

"Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, never said one word about civil marriage or abortion."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Bob Edgar, General Secretary of the National Council of Churches


(CBS) At a church in Washington, hundreds of committed Christians met recently and tried to map out a strategy to get their values into the political debate.

But these are not the conservative Christian values which have been so influential lately. This is the religious left.

"Jesus called us to love our neighbor, love our enemy, care for the poor, care for the outcast, and that's really the moral core of where we think the nation ought to go," Dr. Bob Edgar, General Secretary of the National Council of Churches told CBS News correspondent Russ Mitchell.

The National Council of Churches represents about 50 million Christians in America — the majority of them mainline Protestants.

"Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, never said one word about civil marriage or abortion," Edgar said.

He calls this movement the "center-left" — and it's seeking the same political muscle as the conservative Christians, a group with a strong power base in the huge Evangelical churches of the South.

But the left has its own Evangelical leaders, such as the Rev. Tony Campolo.

"We are furious that the religious right has made Jesus into a Republican. That's idolatry," Campolo said. "To recreate Jesus in your own image rather than allowing yourself to be created in Jesus' image is what's wrong with politics."

The Christian left is focusing on:

Fighting poverty

Protecting the environment

Ending the war in Iraq

"Right now the war in Iraq costs us $1 billion per week," said Rev. Jim Wallis, a Christian activist. "And we can't get $5 billion over ten years for child care in this country?"

To try to attract young voters and the attention of politicians who want their votes, leaders of the religious left are promoting issues like raising the minimum wage.

"Nine million families are working full time," Wallis said. "Working hard full time, responsibly, and not making it."

Three decades ago liberal religious leaders had a powerful influence on politics.

In the 1960s and 70s they led demonstrations against civil rights abuses and the war in Vietnam. But when those battles were over, the movement seemed to lose energy, while the Christian right had become well organized and committed to having its voice and concerns heard.

After years of sitting on the sidelines, it will take more than meetings and talking points to make the liberals into a political power again.

"The Christian right has a ground game," said Mark Silk of Trinity College's religious studies department. "Thus far the Christian left mainly has an air game: they want to throw positions, they want to talk to the media, but do they have the networks in place on the ground to get people out to vote?"

So, it remains to be seen whether there's any action behind the words. But there's no doubt they're on a mission.

"I've watched a generation die. And I watched them shift from idealism to a 'me' generation that was only orientated to consumerism and it hurt, and I wondered whether we ever would come back." Campolo said. "But the pendulum is swinging."

©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

story comes from CBS website: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/09/eveningnews/main1786860.shtml

[chook]

These arsehole will peform miracles volty and all the time they will be bleeding your wallet

Cheers Chook :bigrin:

[jedinudist]

Religion Taking A Left Turn?
Conservative Christians Watch Out: There's A Big Churchgoing Group Seeking Political Power

July 10, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reverend Tony Campolo said: "We are furious that the religious right has made Jesus into a Republican. That's idolatry." (CBS)


Quote

"Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, never said one word about civil marriage or abortion."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Bob Edgar, General Secretary of the National Council of Churches


(CBS) At a church in Washington, hundreds of committed Christians met recently and tried to map out a strategy to get their values into the political debate.

But these are not the conservative Christian values which have been so influential lately. This is the religious left.

"Jesus called us to love our neighbor, love our enemy, care for the poor, care for the outcast, and that's really the moral core of where we think the nation ought to go," Dr. Bob Edgar, General Secretary of the National Council of Churches told CBS News correspondent Russ Mitchell.

The National Council of Churches represents about 50 million Christians in America — the majority of them mainline Protestants.

"Jesus never said one word about homosexuality, never said one word about civil marriage or abortion," Edgar said.

He calls this movement the "center-left" — and it's seeking the same political muscle as the conservative Christians, a group with a strong power base in the huge Evangelical churches of the South.

But the left has its own Evangelical leaders, such as the Rev. Tony Campolo.

"We are furious that the religious right has made Jesus into a Republican. That's idolatry," Campolo said. "To recreate Jesus in your own image rather than allowing yourself to be created in Jesus' image is what's wrong with politics."

The Christian left is focusing on:

Fighting poverty

Protecting the environment

Ending the war in Iraq

"Right now the war in Iraq costs us $1 billion per week," said Rev. Jim Wallis, a Christian activist. "And we can't get $5 billion over ten years for child care in this country?"

To try to attract young voters and the attention of politicians who want their votes, leaders of the religious left are promoting issues like raising the minimum wage.

"Nine million families are working full time," Wallis said. "Working hard full time, responsibly, and not making it."

Three decades ago liberal religious leaders had a powerful influence on politics.

In the 1960s and 70s they led demonstrations against civil rights abuses and the war in Vietnam. But when those battles were over, the movement seemed to lose energy, while the Christian right had become well organized and committed to having its voice and concerns heard.

After years of sitting on the sidelines, it will take more than meetings and talking points to make the liberals into a political power again.

"The Christian right has a ground game," said Mark Silk of Trinity College's religious studies department. "Thus far the Christian left mainly has an air game: they want to throw positions, they want to talk to the media, but do they have the networks in place on the ground to get people out to vote?"

So, it remains to be seen whether there's any action behind the words. But there's no doubt they're on a mission.

"I've watched a generation die. And I watched them shift from idealism to a 'me' generation that was only orientated to consumerism and it hurt, and I wondered whether we ever would come back." Campolo said. "But the pendulum is swinging."

©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.

story comes from CBS website: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/09/eveningnews/main1786860.shtml


Is this a light at the end of the tunnel??? Let us hope it's not an oncoming train.

I was raised in an extrememly strict, devout "Christian" way and was banned form a church for asking questions like - "But I thought Jesus told the faithful he was not here for them, but that he was here for the poor, the sinners, the sheep that had gone astray. Why are we judging the very people Christ holds most dear?"

I have long believed that the republicans and a**holes that have perverted the image of their god to further their own agendas (Pat Robertson anyone???) will have a hell of allot of explaining to do should they ever meet him. It seems the "Jesus" of the republican party is actually more like the hypocrites and pharosees the real Jesus scorned.

I think Jesus would have nothing to do with politics, I think he was trying to teach us about the powers we have - the powers of Love, mercy, compassion, etc. and how we can make a wonderful world just by exersizing them in our everyday lives.

That being said, I think he is more along the lines of the left than the right :)

[Brian]

I think Jesus would have nothing to do with politics As odd as it sounds, the thought has popped into my head numerous times that if Jesus were alive today he would be an atheist. :)

I base this on the reports that Jesus railed against the religious establishment of the day for the sake of the poor, marginalized and oppressed. Which is a lot like modern atheism, in my mind.

[LouiseBrookslover]

The Parable of the Inquisitor, Synopsis by Wikipedia


The tale is told by Ivan with brief interruptive questions by Alyosha. In the tale, Christ comes back to earth in Seville at the time of the Inquisition. Jesus performs a number of miracles (echoing miracles from the Gospels). The people recognize Him and adore Him, but He is arrested by Inquisition leaders and sentenced to be burned to death the next day. The Grand Inquisitor visits Him in His cell to tell Him that the Church no longer needs Him. The main portion of the text is the Inquisitor explaining to Jesus why His return would interfere with the mission of the church.

The Inquisitor frames his denunciation of Jesus around the three questions Satan asked Jesus during the temptation of Christ in the desert. These three are the temptation to turn stones into bread, the temptation to cast Himself from the Temple and be saved by the angels, and the temptation to rule over all the kingdoms of the world. The Inquisitor states that Jesus rejected these three temptations in favor of freedom. The Inquisitor thinks that Jesus has misjudged human nature, though. He does not believe that the vast majority of humanity can handle the freedom which Jesus has given them. Thus, he implies that Jesus, in giving humans freedom to choose, has excluded the majority of humanity from redemption and doomed humanity to suffer.

Ivan indicates that the Inquisitor is an atheist. After a lifetime of pursuing God, he has given up in frustration. He is nevertheless left with his love of humanity and desire to see humanity not suffer. Despite declaring the Inquisitor to be an atheist, Ivan also implies that the Inquisitor and the Church follow "the wise spirit, the dread spirit of death and destruction," i.e. the Devil, Satan, for he, through compulsion, provided the tools to end all human suffering and unite under the banner of the Church. The mulitude then is guided through the Church by the few who are strong enough to take on the burden of freedom. The Inquisitor says that under him, all mankind will live and die happily in ignorance. Though he leads them only to "death and destruction," they will be happy along the way. The Inquisitor will be a self-martyr, spending his life to keep choice from humanity. He states that "Anyone who can appease a man's conscience can take his freedom away from him."

The segment ends when Christ, who has been silent throughout, kisses the Inquisitor on his "bloodless, aged lips" (22) instead of answering him. On this, the Inquisitor releases Christ but tells him never to return. Christ, still silent, leaves into "the dark alleys of the city." Not only is the kiss ambiguous, but its effect on the Inquisitor is as well. Ivan concludes, "The kiss glows in his heart, but the old man adheres to his ideas."

Not only does the parable function as a philosophical and religious work in its own right, but it also furthers the character development of the larger novel. Ivan identifies himself with the Inquisitor, and the brothers part after the parable.

[smokey]

What would Jesus do? I hope he would smack the living crap out of the likes of jerry foulwell and pat robertson, among others.

[LouiseBrookslover]

I'm always posting Smigel shorts on here...but they are so damn relevant!

http://thetravisty.com/Saturday_Night_Live/mov/Real_Audio_-_Jesus_Today.htm

[Azrael]

Let us not forget Shazzang!
http://www.transbuddha.com/mediaHolder.php?id=612

[12voltman59]

I like to say--if Jesus were to return today---SHE would be: black/hispanic, poor, be considered a socialist/communist, be from a poor part of a poor third world developing country, be lesbian/bisexual and maybe transgendered as well for good measure--in short--everything the rich (from tapping their followers pocketbooks) fat, white, southern redneck preachers that seem to dominate the fundy religions--love to hate..... :2cents: :devil: :devil:

[Bicuriousity]

Lets face it, Jesus would be a capitalist. I hate the two party system. The party out of power is always so narrow minded and angry and sorry guys but this time this means you, you liberal crybabies.

I never see so much hate and little good as that which develops out of political discussions.

There is bigotry of all times both from the religion and from those against religion.

Ok I wrote all this to piss you off. It's the best part of being an independent you can piss of both peoples.

And I'm pretty surprised to see so many bisexual as partisans. You would think the more open mindedness we have would lead us not to be blind partisans.

[Brian]

And I'm pretty surprised to see so many bisexual as partisans. You would think the more open mindedness we have would lead us not to be blind partisans. You use a strange definition of openmindedness... You imply that to be openminded one has to be an independant, and one has to hate both liberals and conservatives - in otherwords one has to think just like you. That isn't openmindedness, that's just anger at everyone.

One can be openminded and still take a stand on issues. I call 'em as I see 'em - after thoughtful reasoning. With respect to the role of organized religion in our society, conservatives are wrong and liberals are right - that's how I see it.

And the bit about us with beefs about the current state of affairs being "crybabies", well that's not being very graceful is it?

- Drew :paw:

[Azrael]

And the bit about us with beefs about the current state of affairs being "crybabies", well that's not being very graceful is it?

- Drew :paw:
Not crybabies. Rather people who forgot to become afraid of our ability to observe the world around us, as I see it.

[Herbwoman39]

I'd be cheering and dancing in the street if it wasn't midnight here. FINALLY we're starting to see a little enlightenment from the religeous sector. It's about freakin time if you ask me.

I'm not Christian. I don't believe that Jesus was the only son of God. I DO think that Jesus was an excellent teacher and his message has gotten lost along the way; trivialized and tainted by those in the Church who want control. You see, boys and girls, THAT'S what the church's message is. Not love and compassion, but fear and control.

Believe in Jesus or go to Hell. Give us 10% of everything you make and own because God says so. Fear. Control. Money. Power. Welcome to church.

Yeah, I've had some bad experiences with the Christian religeon. Can you tell?

[JohnnyV]

You use a strange definition of openmindedness... You imply that to be openminded one has to be an independant, and one has to hate both liberals and conservatives - in otherwords one has to think just like you. That isn't openmindedness, that's just anger at everyone.

One can be openminded and still take a stand on issues. I call 'em as I see 'em - after thoughtful reasoning. With respect to the role of organized religion in our society, conservatives are wrong and liberals are right - that's how I see it.

And the bit about us with beefs about the current state of affairs being "crybabies", well that's not being very graceful is it?

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE DREW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Long Duck Dong]

here here johnnyv, lol i agree with you and drew fully lol

having come from a christian background and now happily and willingly following a path as a wicca witch, I love comparing the differences between christianity and other faiths and religion
the wicca are guided by the wiccan rede

bide the wiccan rede ye must, in perfect love, perfect trust
for 8 words the rede furfills, *as ye harm none, do as you will*
ever mind the rules of 3, what you give out, comes back to thee
follow this with mind and heart, merry ye meet, merry ye part

it has always been a point of interest for me, that the christian bible teachs, love, respect and understanding for all....yet, the single greatest group in the world, responsible for condemnation of minorities, and un conformists, is the christian group

if the christian group wee given full control over world law, then the follow would happen

all female employees would be sent home and told never go back to work

any person performing acts of sodomy would be exiled, and that includes heteros, gays, lesbians, bisexuals

any person masturbating would be condemned

all adultorers, fornicators and any person having sex out of wedlock would be condemned

all openminded faiths, beliefs and non christian beliefs would be wiped out

etc etc etc

then christianity would turn on itself and rip its heart out, as all the works of faith and good will would dissapear under the drive of people to hide some sign of non christian behievour to satisfy the needs of the preachers that go on and on about the evil, immoral and un christian like behievour that is supposedly corrupting the world

[Azrael]

Religion+politics=people burning. That pretty well sums up my thoughts. I'm a very spiritual person, but theocracies make me gag, and not in a fun way :bigrin:

[canuckotter]

One can be openminded and still take a stand on issues. I call 'em as I see 'em - after thoughtful reasoning. With respect to the role of organized religion in our society, conservatives are wrong and liberals are right - that's how I see it.
I absolutely agree with the first part, but I'd have to disagree with the second. Conservatives -- real conservatives[/i] -- are just as much in the right as liberals, because real conservatives are vehemently opposed to church involvement in politics. Of course, these days so few people understand what "conservative" is supposed to mean... :(