Mutual Masturbation Question

[billy_campbell]

I am asssuming that everyone thinks mutual masturbation is fun for all, so that is not my question. My question is this, I have a married lady friend who visits and while she will not engage in intercourse she is very much into mutual masturbation. Has anyone else ever had this experience and how do you feel about her justifying in her mind that mutal mastubation is not cheating. No she is not related to Bill Clinton. :)

[JrzGuy3]

It's called anti-processing. Jehova's Witnesses are famous among the psychological community for this. Say there's some sort of truth which would be distressing to you. What you do is come up with false, usually circular, logic to circumvent what you don't want to face as true. While she may be saying "mutual masturbating isn't cheating" to your face, in her head is probably somehting like "because it isn't penetration, penetration = sex, and if its not sex it's not cheating." Round and round you go. The problem is that when you take out one or two spokes from the wheel, the entire system comes crashing down. This is why she only shows you one piece: "it's not cheating." This is also why, while Jehova's Witnesses will trumpet their beliefs and belittle yours, the moment you turn the tables they'll go into hissy fits and productive conversation (had it been occuring) comes to an end. :2cents:

[smokey]

i don't know I find mutual masturbation kinda boring. I like to get a lover off but as a sex act in and of itself....YAWN....as paul simon said..."doesn't beat my own imagination."

[DiamondDog]

she's in denial. She doesn't see it as a sex act because that way it isn't cheating to her. She has the heteronominative idea that you have to penetrate a vagina or a mouth with a penis in order for it to be sex.

I have met "straight" men that do not consider oral sex or mutual masturbation with a man to be sex. With most het people my age (even women), they do not consider oral sex to be sex; but the same goes for mutual masturbation.

mutual masturbation is one of my favorite sex acts to do with a man.
It's even better with some cbt (cock and ball torture), kissing, rubbing around, and if you add in some edging it's even better! :-) :bigrin:

toys/leather are optional. ;)

[Azrael]

she's in denial. She doesn't see it as a sex act because that way it isn't cheating to her. She has the heteronominative idea that you have to penetrate a vagina or a mouth with a penis in order for it to be sex.

I have met "straight" men that do not consider oral sex or mutual masturbation with a man to be sex. With most het people my age (even women), they do not consider oral sex to be sex; but the same goes for mutual masturbation.
Exactly. Cheating is cheating is cheating. On a related note, I was cheated on once by a lover with another girl. My friend in his infinite wisdom said, "at least it was with a girl and not another man.", to which I replied, "well dude, I don't really see that distinction myself.". Typical guy-friends I suppose :rolleyes:

[Long Duck Dong]

i am not inclined to call it cheating

mutual masturbation without touching another person is hardly going outside yourself for sexual gratification, you may well be using image stimulation as a sexual aid, but if you apply that to a sexual act, then any sound or image beyond that of your own partner, as a sexual aid, can then be classed as having a affair and cheating

if it does involve mutual touching of the other person, then it can be classed as a form of cheating, but you never stated if her partner was aware of what she is.... I am refering to the fact she likes mutual masturbation, without revealing partners

with mutual masturbation, you are allowing images ( fantasies ) to become your sexual realm, with or without outside contact, and so, in a persons mind, they are not going outside of their marriage for sexual intercourse, and that can be why some people see it as ok and not a betrayal of trust

the idea of marriage is that you are complete as one unit with your partner and if you are going outside your marriage to gain complete sexual furfillment with another person, you are placing that person into the same area that you partner should be, and so by only allowing mutual masturbation, your lady friend may be thinking that she is addressing a area, not furfilled by her partner and so she is not * replacing * her partner outside of the marriage, hence she is not cheating.....

simple and bluntly,.... is it worth rocking the boat with your lady friend by trying to get her to say she is cheating, or is it just easier to let sleeping dogs lay

[Azrael]

You may be on to something there, but in said case you are still in my judgement using an external party to stimulate yourself, however indirectly :2cents:

[Long Duck Dong]

true azrael... i have to agree on that point.... but at what point is cheating actually defined

if cheating is classed as using a external party as stimulation... then that would define cheating as limited to human stimulation outside your partner.... and that can be cheating...

but if we define it as using a external party without contact between the parties, then it could cover anything that may be regarded as sexually stimulating, as in watching or reading porn, viewing super models... even to the point of reading ladies mags and spanking the monkey in the shower lol

personally I view cheating as a act of sexual stimulation outside of the relationship/marriage, that involves one or more other sexual partners ( human or otherwise ), and is beyond the knowledge or consent of your current partner lol

[jedinudist]

I look at it this way..

Anytime a person has sex (masturbating is sex) with a person other than the one they are in a relationship with and they do so without the permission of the person they are in a relationship with - They Have CHEATED.

Two guy masturbating themselves in view of one another, even if they never touch each other, are sharing an intimate moment of their lives. A moment usually reserved for a person you are in a relationship with (if you are in one). To share that intimacy outside your primary relationship without the blessing of your primary partner is wrong.

just my 2 cents

[Nara_lovely]

I see the lack of honesty and trust as the issue...not the style of the sexual act.

Justifying it by degrees is a way of not dealing with the deeper issues.

[Azrael]

Exactly what I was driving at. You get a golf clap ;)

[mistymockingbird]

Just my 2 cents - anything done for sexual stimulation/gratification without the knowledge of a supposedly monogamous partner is cheating. That being said, for every realtionship out there, there will be a different definition of what is considered a sex act and what is considered cheating. I agree with Nara, the bigger issue is trust and honesty between partners. Its not important what other people think about any "arrangements" you may have with a partner, only that the people in the "arrangement" are comfortable with it.

[billy_campbell]

Just my 2 cents - anything done for sexual stimulation/gratification without the knowledge of a supposedly monogamous partner is cheating. That being said, for every realtionship out there, there will be a different definition of what is considered a sex act and what is considered cheating. I agree with Nara, the bigger issue is trust and honesty between partners. Its not important what other people think about any "arrangements" you may have with a partner, only that the people in the "arrangement" are comfortable with it.

This seems to be the common response and I agree.

[orpheus_lost]

I have to admit, I don't feel one way or the other about her rationalizations. Each of us does the things we need to in order to experience love, lust, comfort and joy. She's doing her things as are you. To moralize it by other people's standards is just going to lead to anguish.

If it's "sex" and therefore wrong for her to masturbate with you, then isn't it wrong for you to have "sex" with a married woman without her husband's consent?

I'd say leave her to manage her own needs while you manage yours. It's when we try to manage other people that the troubles start.

[Flounder1967]

I myself would still call it cheating, but i would tak another slant to the reasoning. I the court of law (such as a divorce) it would be consider cheating or just look really bad.

[biandu]

Hi billy-- how the hell are ya?


The actual question :
"...how do you feel about her justifying in her mind that mutal mastubation is not cheating..."


imo. i don't give a shit. really.. those are her issues to deal with and if she can justify, rationalize.. whatever.. and doesn't have a problem coming over and getting off.. then fuck.. let her.

fucking hot. that you even have someone to mess about with.. why over analyze it.. just enjoy it while it lasts. imo.

let her deal with her issues..
you deal with yours.


if you feel that strongly-- that it is cheating..and it's so morally objectionable to you.. .don't engage in it.

but obviously you don't mind it too much eh!.....lol

billy, who's guilt are you addressing hers or yours anyway?

[citystyleguy]

cheating is cheating! if you think otherwise, you're into hairsplitting and should check out a career in politicis or the law!

[billy_campbell]

Hi billy-- how the hell are ya?


The actual question :
"...how do you feel about her justifying in her mind that mutal mastubation is not cheating..."


imo. i don't give a shit. really.. those are her issues to deal with and if she can justify, rationalize.. whatever.. and doesn't have a problem coming over and getting off.. then fuck.. let her.

fucking hot. that you even have someone to mess about with.. why over analyze it.. just enjoy it while it lasts. imo.

let her deal with her issues..
you deal with yours.


if you feel that strongly-- that it is cheating..and it's so morally objectionable to you.. .don't engage in it.

but obviously you don't mind it too much eh!.....lol

billy, who's guilt are you addressing hers or yours anyway?

Hi biandu, I am doing just fine. Living guilt free as I really belive my friend is also. I ask the question (perhaps not in the best way I could have asked it) because her and I discuss this topic at times. She mostly feels okay with it but she was raised a Southern Baptist and sometimes has flashbacks to the fire and brimstone sermons.

[mike9753]

Someone said it in an earlier post - "sharing an intimate moment" - don't you share those with the peron you are committed to? And if that person would feel betrayed by your sharing an intimate moment with another - I don't care if it's watching water boil, it's cheating!
Mike

[Long Duck Dong]

I can't resist it..... how many of us in bisexual.com... give advice to others about cheating and how to handle it and feel sorry for the people cheated on... when we are doing it ourselves :tong:

no, i'm not out to stir the pot or cause a riot..... its just around my immediate friends in nz, a number of them are quick to point the finger while ignoring their own cheating ways lol... and I know in bisexual.com... we have a few like that..... emphasis on the FEW.... cos we have many great couples in here

I do admire the people in here that have bit the bullet and told their partners about their sexuality and their desires.... and they are the ones i listen to the most when they talk about cheating and trust and respect... cos they speak from experience lol

have i cheated ??? yes.... have i been cheated on...???... yes.... would i condemm my partner for cheating ??? no.... simply cos I have been a cheater myself in the past... who am I to judge lol

[matterinhand]

"Two guy masturbating themselves in view of one another, even if they never touch each other, are sharing an intimate moment of their lives. A moment usually reserved for a person you are in a relationship with (if you are in one). To share that intimacy outside your primary relationship without the blessing of your primary partner is wrong."


Sorry to come to this thread so late, but I just wonder whether you would also consider someone masturbating alone, in the bed shared by their partner, whilst thinking of their partner to be cheating?

Does it depend upon their sex?
A male does it to orgasm, his partner comes in 5 minutes later wanting an "intimate moment" and he can't get it up.
A woman does it to orgasm, her partner turns up, they can still indulge in their intimate moment. *
Which, if either, has cheated?

*Yes, I know some women go off the idea when they have an orgasm, my ex was one of them, but its got to be faced that women don't have erections to get.

[jack6two]

The best way for my wife to her cuming is when i lick her pussy and she enjoys only. After her orgasm she often milks my cocks until cuming (no blowing because she doesn't like to swallow) and i can enjoy. In the same time to masturbate isn't so good - i believe - because it isn't able to enjoy as good as in the way one after the another! So our expiriences. :tongue: