Carrot Dangling

[Gypsy200]

First of all hi to everyone as this is my first post on the site. *waves hello*

Second; I’m really after some opinions and advice.

The background:
My girlfriend and I have been together since November last year, and we’re getting pretty serious now. From our very first date she made it very clear that she is bisexual. I am straight, but love exploring sexuality and have a very open mind. She flirted with other women, and told me stories of lesbian lovers, threesomes, shared pictures of F/F encounters, even dangled the carrot of a threesome involving me. This was right at the start, and if I’m honest one of the main reasons I continued dating her (having not had any experience of a bisexual woman I was intensely curious).

Fairly quickly we became very close, and have fallen in love. Wonderful though this is, it seems to have moved the sexual goal posts significantly. We haven’t explored finding the same sex (females) attractive in our relationship, and when I bring up the subject now, she gets upset that she isn’t good enough for me on her own.

The problem:
We are in a strong and loving relationship, but I am really angry that she was such a tease at the start, got me all excited then took it away. Now I am faced with the prospect of not having a threesome with my girlfriend I find myself enraged with jealousy. I know that there are 2 men out there that have had that privilege with my gal. That is eating me up inside right now, I feel duped and weirdly like I’m not good enough.

The status:
We have talked about this a lot, she’s not saying “NO” but definitely not saying “yes” either. I’ve done a lot of soul searching about why I find this fantasy so alluring. It’s not that I want to be with another woman, I love my gal completely and don’t need anything different to her. The turn on for me is seeing my gal express that side of her sexuality, and her trusting me to not fancy her less, or stop loving her. Obviously the visual aspect is incredibly appealing too, but the draw for me is more of a mental thing, being able to share attraction.

I’m not sure what to do with the anger or jealously I’m feeling, neither of those emotions are particularly healthy within a relationship. I don’t want to push the idea too hard, but I’ve got to be honest, this is a big deal for me now.

Has anyone else had similar experiences / emotions?
What would you do?

HELP..!!!!!

[softfruit]

The one-liner advice is, go & rent the video of "Chasing Amy".

Maybe you just matter too much to her right now for her to be in the mood to share you, even for one night. Perhaps emotionally she needs the stability of monogamy for who she is right now. Or it just sometimes works for her when the right girl comes along, and she doesn't know the right girl right now, or it works in a more casual encounter where she hasn't got that deeply emotionally involved. Whisper it on these forums if we dare - maybe right now her sexuality has shifted and she's turned straight.

Don't get me wrong, threesomes (and moresomes) can be a lot of fun. Heck, I've got an eager grin just remembering one of the good ones. But they can also be a hugely destructive force, especially if some of the people involved mean a lot emotionally to one another. What if you seem more turned on by the other girl than by your partner, and it makes her fear you will love her less? What if you see her having a way more powerful orgasm with another woman than you've ever given her, and it causes you to doubt your ability to satisfy her? When it goes bad, it can all sow the seeds of doubt and distrust and fear that can rip a relationship apart. Maybe she's seen that side of them too, and you've come to mean too much to her to be worth the risk.

[Gypsy200]

Thanks for your reply. It helps to have an outside perspective on the situation.

I've talked to my other half some more about it, and have showed her this post on the forum too (no secrets). She totally agreed with your summary above. Particularly with the "and you've come to mean too much to her to be worth the risk" bit.

This helps and makes things worse at the same time.

It wouldn't be such a big issue for me if she hadn't made such a big thing about threesomes and her bisexuality at the start of our relationship. Really feels like she used it as bait, then took it away when she's decided she likes me too much, and I was hooked on her.

Hmmmm, I'm sounding a bit paranoid here. But I would compare it to

Being attracted to someone because of their long flowing hair, you date them, and get to know them more, start a relationship, commit to each other... THEN finding out that the hair is a wig, now that you're committed they don't wear the wig anymore, they have nice hair underneath, but it's not what you were attracted to initially.

Not sure if i'm making any sense, but thanks for listening.

[Ratchick]

Chasing Amy,
Now that is a film that besides being one of my faveorite, has some underlieing themes that are wonderful.
Being that it is written by a straight male, I was amased at how it actually brought into light the double standard for women and sexuality.
I highly reccomend it to any man seeking a bit of knowledge.
-RC

[softfruit]

Y'know, I don't think the wig analogy stands up. It's more like, when you met her she told you of her penchant for wearing wigs, and that intrigued you, and just now she's got her hair done in a new style she's feeling really good about and doesn't want to hide it under a wig. You still want her to get the wigs out of her dressing up box, while she's thinking it's summer and she'll get too hot. Maybe in the autumn she'll come back to playing dress-up, but you'll just have to wait and see.

Have you considered that she made such a big thing about her bisexuality etc so there wouldn't be some kind of "you did WHAT" moment later on, when you picked up on the grapevine that she was bi and had lived a varied and interesting sex life. If she'd never told you it could have been a relationship breaker to find out about it later on, and as bis we are often accused of dishonesty through being able to be read as gay or straight and not openly challenging the assumption every damn time.

Course the trouble is, if someone you've met and are attracted to gets excited by what you're telling them, you wind up telling them more, cos you like them and you want them to like you, and talking about this thing makes them want to talk to you more...

[Gypsy200]

Again thank you for the replies. I’ve ordered Chasing Amy and it should be winging it’s way to me now.

Never has the phrase “it’s good to talk” been more appropriate.

I think that my gal and I are well on the way to resolving all our issues on the subject. We spent a good part of the weekend getting down to the roots of the bragging, my fears, her fears, the risks etc.

I’d agree that my analogy isn’t a great match to the situation, but it did match how I was feeling.

My gal had only started expressing / acknowledging the bi part of her sexuality less than a year before I met her, through some unfortunate choices and external influences her first encounters left a bit of a foul taste in her mouth (not literally). She kinda lost herself for a while, and was still not on stable ground when we first met. Once our relationship progressed beyond casual, she saw the risks associated with even admitting her same sex attraction as too great. Worried that prejudice, jealousy, and infidelity would tear us apart.

The result of us talking so openly has been that she is now reassured that it’s ok to be bisexual. And that it’s also ok to express that fact in our relationship. I have a much better understanding of her fears / desires now too, which has really helped put things into perspective. Although I am not expecting to be invited for a threesome in the near future, I am confident that we will build an exciting, expressive, varied and very fulfilling sex life through trust, openness and honestly.

Who knows what the future holds, but I know that it will be better and stronger than anything that either of us have experienced before.

[gayle]

My gal had only started expressing / acknowledging the bi part of her sexuality less than a year before I met her, through some unfortunate choices and external influences her first encounters left a bit of a foul taste in her mouth (not literally). She kinda lost herself for a while, and was still not on stable ground when we first met. Once our relationship progressed beyond casual, she saw the risks associated with even admitting her same sex attraction as too great. Worried that prejudice, jealousy, and infidelity would tear us apart.

This is just my interpretation of what you have written but, here goes. It sounds to me like maybe the experiences were NOT as pleasurable to her as you might have thought. This seems to be born out by your comment "through some unfortunate choices and external influences her first encounters left a bit of a foul taste in her mouth . . . She kinda lost herself for awhile. . ." It sounds like perhaps these encounters are ones she was not entirely comfortable with. She may have told you in the attempt to be honest about her past, but NOT with the intent that you as a couple would engage in 3somes and such. It seems possible that she may not even truly be bi, but that the encounters were more of an experimenting nature and that she has decided that she didn't particularly enjoy it or doesn't feel a particular desire to have such encounters at this stage in her life.
It is also possible she is uncomfortable with the number of lovers (be they male or female) in the past, and she may be desiring at this point in her life to have a single monogamous relationship.
I understand many men (maybe even most men) have fantasies about watching two women engaging in sexual activities together and/or having sex with him. This doesn't mean that most women have the desire to participate in these scenarios. It sounds like for now you need to just put these desires on the back burner and if, at some point in the future, your girlfriend is open to it, you might be able to explore these desires together.
Right now you need to focus on communicating your desires openly and honestly. Neither of you has the "right" to try to coerce or talk the other into doing something he/she does not wish to do. Enjoy the sexual activity that you have at this time and know that just as our relationships evolve and change over time, the things we do together in the bedroom also tend to evolve and change as trust is built.
Best of luck to you!

[teraspecter]

This is merely my interpretation, but it seems to me like you both just got caught up in the thrill of bisexuality. Of course it's every straight mans wet dream to be in a threesome, so I can't really blame you when you say you felt alittle duped, however, if that was one of the main points of attraction, perhaps you weren't looking hard enough. Think about it: you found a woman attractive because of the prospect of being able to enjoy other women at the same time? I think drooling over a threesome is a sureway to kill your chances of ever having one.

On top of that, I blame our patriarchal society. Women, in general, are objectified and oversexualized creatures. Somehow our perception of them as the "weaker sex" makes them engaging in acts that we'd find morally unsure or unclear in other males ok, (ie: Ever notice that the men who talk the most about how they'll punch gay men in the face is they try to hit on them are always the ones who whack off to girl-on-girl porn?). Whatever it is that makes it so appealing, women have definitely caught on and certainly play up bisexuality as a selling point from time to time, even the ones who arne't bisexual. Again, I blame our patriarchal society. It's a shitty, homophobic double standard...Not that I'm accusing you of homophobia or anything, but while we're tottering that fence, I might as well come out and say it:

Don't expect your lover to do anything for you that you wouldn't do for them. If she told you it was a huge turn on to watch guys hookup, would you do it for her? I know far too many homophobic men with bisexual girlfriends and I think thats extremely unfair. Again, I'm not accusing you of homophobia.

Also, her bisexuality was relatively new to her, correct? It's not uncommon for people, when theyre trying to become comfortable with themselves, to maybe overdo it at first. Sometimes you just want to shout it from the rooftops, or at least tell anyone who'll listen to make up for all the time you were afraid to tell anyone.

[summergirl75]

Hi, I have been through this so i can understand the problem. My ex boyfriend was initially very happy with my bisexuality, the thrill of the possibilites it held. I was very open with him and told him all about my experiences. In the beginning we used to talk about what we would do and who with. For him it was a fantasy that was becomming real, a woman completely in touch with every aspect of her sexuality. I had felt that way for so long and was comfortable with it, my friends had been supportive and liked having a bi friend always a good conversation to be had. As time went on the talk of invoving other people in our sex life was coming up more and more frequently. In the end i relented, for an easy life, i loved him and he loved me, we had trust and respect and discussed rules. One of my friends had expressed curiosity and she was safe, so we had a threesum. We met for drinks and when we were all a little drunk we took it further. It wasn't till about a week later the problems started, i would question him every time he went quiet thinking he was thinking about her. She felt awkward around me and didn't return my calls. He would make comments like i don't know why i bother you obviously like women more than men. I was accused of being a tease and a closet lesbian and only wanted to be with him because that's what my parents wanted for me. I became paranoid that i wasn't enough for him alone and he needed another woman with me to be aroused. Part of me wishes i had never expressed that side of myself to him, i didn't need to, I only wanted him. About 3 months after the threesum we seperated. I found myself without a home and very alone, having also lost one of my friends. I just wanted to share with you and ask you to think about what you really want. It sounds as though you and your gf talk a lot and that's good, but anything you ever think of doing, do with your eyes wide open.
As for me i met a wonderful bisexual woman recently and am happy in a relationship with her, we don't need anyone else, we play enough alone.

[Apleasureseeker]

I think summergirl's posts are pretty insightful --BUT-- Since this girlfriend's already introduced the bi/threesum element into the relationship, it's probably not going to go away, till there's some resolution. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. In any case, communication is the most important thing! 3sums always lead to feelings of jealousy of some sort, and you have to be very sensitive to everybody concerned. (in my experience women, for some reason, like to gang up on the guy and make jokes, but don't realize how sensitive and vulnerable guys are in all of this, and they don't realize that a little tease during sex can poison a relationship. I think men are much more vulnerable during sex than women).

I hate to say it, but all relationships seem to have a power-play element, and it sounds like she's used her sexual experience to get an edge over him. Whether it was intentional or acidental doesn't really matter, the effect is the same. Worse, she, told him that she's done it with other guys, not just gals, and that's reasonably going to make him insecure. Even if she's happy with the place their relationship is in now, he isn't & it'll get worse, & not better i she doesn't do anything. If she's as comfortable with her sexuality as she appears to have told him she is, she souldn't have a problem handling one more threesum. he could simply do it as a treat to show she's sinceres & not playing games.

Something a lot of women fail to realize is that EVERYTHING you do relationship-wise affects every other relationship you're ever going to have. Bisexusality is a biggie, regardless of the media image as a "secret girls' thing." Same with 3-sums. Don't ever get into it unless you're aware that it could ruin some very serious relationships in the future. For example, I'll drop a girl cold if she keeps any 'secrets.' I don't mind bisexuality or group sex or anything else, but if she's not going to share her experiences honestly, she absolutely can't be trusted or respected.

[serena_barrow]

Apleasureseeker - If she's as comfortable with her sexuality as she appears to have told him she is, she shouldn't have a problem handling one more threesum. he could simply do it as a treat to show she's sinceres & not playing games

Do you really think that is the best motivation for taking part in a threesum? Do you really think that doing a threesum as I qoute 'a treat' is the correct motivation?

For example, I'll drop a girl cold if she keeps any 'secrets.' I don't mind bisexuality or group sex or anything else, but if she's not going to share her experiences honestly, she absolutely can't be trusted or respected.
She was honest, she told him about her experience and how she felt about things, she told him that things were difficult and the motivation behind having threesums in the past. Therefore she was honest and shared her experiences, you have contradicted yourself. She was honest so thats good, but she was wrong in doing that, so she's wrong.

My gal had only started expressing / acknowledging the bi part of her sexuality less than a year before I met her, through some unfortunate choices and external influences her first encounters left a bit of a foul taste in her mouth (not literally). She kinda lost herself for a while, and was still not on stable ground when we first met. Once our relationship progressed beyond casual, she saw the risks associated with even admitting her same sex attraction as too great. Worried that prejudice, jealousy, and infidelity would tear us apart.
Sounds like she was honest to me, just that she made a mistake in how she told him in the beginning. Better to have told the truth badly than to lie all the way through the relationship.

[mike9753]

Be very careful - it seems to me that all the concerns you have been expressing are a mine filed that will explode on you if and when you bring someone else into this relationship. If you are anxious, jealous, worried now - when nothing has even happened, then can you imagine that these fears and worries will go away if you become physically intimate with a 3rd person? My guess is that they will grow and become a destructive force in your relationship. Unless you two gain a good deal more confidence in yourselves and each other, I think any activity with a 3rd person will open you both up for a "world of hurt".

I am convinced that people need to be very self confident in themselves and their partner and especially in their partners feelings for them. This comes from being together for a time and exploring these issues openly and honestly. OR, people can do this successfully if they are not really committed to their partner and don't really have a worry about the continuation of the relationship. It is just an expression of their lust and interest in doing something entirely pleasurable.

[Gypsy200]

Hi again everyone.

I can't tell you how much it has helped us by posting on this site. Everyone's opinions, advice and experiences have really helped (whether we agree with it or not) me and my gal explore what it is we want, and what is appropriate for us right now. :bowdown:

@Apleasureseeker: Looks like you spotted how put out i was at the start, and my head had visited most of the places your post mentioned. I was pretty angry with how she expressed herself back then. "just that she made a mistake in how she told him in the beginning." sums that up pretty well.! But that's no reason to demand or expect a 3sum as a treat, or as a way to balance things up. We have talked this one to death, and she reads this forum too. *waves hello*

The long and short of it is that I find her sexuality, and the posibilities that opens (whether real or as fantasy) a huge turn on. I am jealous of the men from her past that have seen her in a 3sum situation, but at the same time I can offset this jealousy by knowing that she has never shared her innermost feelings about her sexuality with ANYONE else before. That in itself is a huge thing, and one that i cherish.

I won't share any more of what my girlfriend and i have discussed, well not without her permission :tongue: . But I'm sure I can speak for both of us when i say that we are both very happy with where we're going.

Watch this space :) :color:

[softfruit]

I know it's not "the end" - but as endings to threads go, that's fantastic to read ~:o)

[blitz120]

Gypsy200 (and others who have encountered such issues from either side),

I heartily recommend the book The Ethical Slut (it's not nearly as salacious as it sounds) as a source for addressing such issues, especially rule setting and dealing with jealousy. It's not specifically bisexually oriented, but it certainly includes bisexuality in the mix.

I also suggest thinking about and presenting the idea as one of supplementing the relationship, not replacing the relationship.

--blitz120

[Apleasureseeker]

Hi Gypsy!
I'm glad you guys have worked out a solution that is satisfying to both of you. Most of the gals I've dated for the last 20 years have been bi. Anyone who thinks that this is a good thing hasn't dated many bi gals (as far as they know!). There's a certain degree of powerplay--both intentional and unintentional--in every relationship, but when one or both are bi the complications are 100 times worse. Perhaps because 'bisexuality' indicates a person who interacts with two different kinds of people, there's always a potential for mistrust (I understand that gays who date bi's are just as insecure as straight are about their partner's fidelity). I really don't know if open acccceptance of bisexuality would be a good thing--it's so different from being either gay or straight, and it seems it can cause a great deal of pain in the long-run for both the bi and their partners. It ought to be something that people only commit to after a great deal of soul-searching.

[Apleasureseeker]

Being the cynic that i am (please disregard this if it doesn't apply):

What still bothers me a bit was the paragraph that follows:

>The result of us talking so openly has been that she is now reassured that it’s ok to be bisexual. And that it’s also ok to express that fact in our relationship. I have a much better understanding of her fears / desires now too, which has really helped put things into perspective. Although I am not expecting to be invited for a threesome in the near future, I am confident that we will build an exciting, expressive, varied and very fulfilling sex life through trust, openness and honestly.

In all fairness, if you guys are in a serious relationship, neither one of you ought to be fooling around outside without the other, unless you both have dates! :eek:

[serena_barrow]

Originally posted by Apleasureseeker
In all fairness, if you guys are in a serious relationship, neither one of you ought to be fooling around outside without the other, unless you both have dates!
Hi Gypsy 200's girlfriend *waves hello*,

What Gypsy was saying was that It is ok for me to be bi, that through talking (a lot) we have reached a place where my past doesn't hold as much power as it did. The fact that i find women attractive can be fun and we can share that, i can point out an attractive woman or he can, we can use my sexuality in the bedroom without having to have someone else there. I have no intention of ever fooling around outside our relationship. I hold my realtionship with Gypsy very close to my heart and love him more than i could ever express in words. I made some mistakes in the beginning which i regret, I was so comfortable with him when we first met I told him more than i maybe should have , or at least maybe I should have expressed myself differently. I found it arousing discussing things with him and in hindsight I know it was a really bad idea. We have talked at length about the period in my life when i began to come to terms with my sexuality, I came up against a very negative attitude and it is not a time full of happy memories. I understand Gypsy's problems with it and other than reasurring him there is not much I can do. I am not about to have a threesum to even the balance, as doing something with that as the only motivation would be like pouring poison on our relationship.


Originally posted by blitz120
I heartily recommend the book The Ethical Slut (it's not nearly as salacious as it sounds) as a source for addressing such issues, especially rule setting and dealing with jealousy. It's not specifically bisexually oriented, but it certainly includes bisexuality in the mix.Yup we got it, and have made a start on reading it, When i first looked at it I was put off byt the title, and some of the chapters do not sit well with me, much about open relationships, but a good read all the same.


Originally posted bysoftfruit
The one-liner advice is, go & rent the video of "Chasing Amy".
We took your advice on this and ordered the DVD, we watched it on Saturday night and i would recommend the film to anyone else that has ever had questions about their own sexuality or anyone elses, or been in a realtionship with someone bisexual, a fantastic film that touched on some of the issues that Gypsy and I have ben working though, we were both nodding in agreement during the film, although at times both to different parts lol).

This has been a stressfull time for us and this site and your comments have been really helpful, I am now in a position where I can say without fear of recrimination 'I am a bisexual female', I have made some mistakes in my life with men and women but right now and for as long as he'll have me, I am in a happy, loving, fulfilling, honest realtionship with Gypsy. The fact that I have a bisexual side to me has no bearing on my feelings for him, it does not make me more likely to be unfaithful it does not mean that our realtionship means any less than a basic straight woman, straight man realtionship. I'm not saying it's easy and that all the isssues are gone, but we talk openly about everything and anything, and I like where our relationship is taking us. A place where no conversation is taboo, where we can talk about all our desires without hesitation.

[mike9753]

I am very happy that this open discussion has helped you both. I really do enjoy that dynamic of having so many diverse, yet complementary opinions expressed. This group of folks (in this thread - and elsewhere on this site) seem to have enormous abouts of life experience and wisdom to draw from. I only added one, short comment, yet I benefitted from the entire exchange.

GOOD LUCK!