Tolerance & understanding of homosexuality...from a Catholic school?!

[The Young Pretender]

http://www.advocate.com/society/youth/2013/03/28/catholic-high-school-allows-male-couple-attend-dance

Basically, two gay teens asked for permission to attend their junior prom as a couple at an all boys Jesuit high school.

The school president, a Jesuit priest, had this to say:


Shortly thereafter, school president, Father Edward Salmon, sent a detailed note to parents on March 27, saying, “If our two brothers who have asked to attend the Junior Ball wish to do so, they will be welcomed.”

My own high school and its religious order doubtlessly would have issued the exact opposite. They expelled two freshman boys for kissing in the hallway, both without prior disciplinary incidents. That would have been 2007.

At least someone still believes in "Love thy neighbour" rather than "Stone thy Sodomite."

[goldenfinger]

WOW, about time too, can't wait for the fallout from this.If this wont split the church, what will.
Maybe he went to the famous bath house in Rome, and saw "THAT IS WAS GOOD". :yikes2:

[Gearbox]

“If our two brothers who have asked to attend the Junior Ball wish to do so, they will be welcomed.”
He could have put that a bit less sinister IMO!:eek2:

But fek it, it's progress!:bounce:

[zigzig]

That's good! Some centuries the boys would be stoned for being a couple.

[tenni]

There are a couple of points that need to be understood in order to contextualize what this school president wrote.

The first and most important is that this is the position of the Jesuits. The Jesuits are the most intellectual and progressively liberal of all branches of Roman Catholicism. I don't think that they promote their progressiveness publicly but they are known to deviate from the more conservative branches that usually control the Church.

The present Pope comes from the Franciscan order and is known for different priorities of poverty and simplicity.

In 2008, Pope Benedict reminded the Jesuits to obey. They might have been pushing Benedict(don't know what branch he is from) to the point that he pushed back subtly?
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope_benedict_asks_jesuits_to_reflect_deeply_on_th eir_vow_of_obedience_to_him/

Benedict ....."The themes that are debated and questioned today, such as the salvation of all in Christ, sexual morality, and marriage and the family, should be considered in the context of contemporary reality, maintaining, however, that harmony with the Magisterium that avoids the provocation of confusion and uncertainty in the People of God."

[The Young Pretender]

There are a couple of points that need to be understood in order to contextualize what this school president wrote.

The first and most important is that this is the position of the Jesuits. The Jesuits are the most intellectual and progressively liberal of all branches of Roman Catholicism. I don't think that they promote their progressiveness publicly but they are known to deviate from the more conservative branches that usually control the Church.

The present Pope comes from the Franciscan order and is known for different priorities of poverty and simplicity.

In 2008, Pope Benedict reminded the Jesuits to obey. They might have been pushing Benedict(don't know what branch he is from) to the point that he pushed back subtly?
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope_benedict_asks_jesuits_to_reflect_deeply_on_th eir_vow_of_obedience_to_him/

Benedict ....."The themes that are debated and questioned today, such as the salvation of all in Christ, sexual morality, and marriage and the family, should be considered in the context of contemporary reality, maintaining, however, that harmony with the Magisterium that avoids the provocation of confusion and uncertainty in the People of God."

Pope Francis began his "career" as a Jesuit.

[niftyshellshock]

Believe it or not, some of us are quite progressive.

[tenni]

Pope Francis began his "career" as a Jesuit.

That might be a good sign but also Pope Francis as a Fransiscan may help. Uh., Pope Francis may have started as a Jesuit but the point that he is not a Jesuit may mean that he didn't "fit" into the intellectual demands that the Jesuits require. I don't know this personally but do know the family of a Jesuit Priest. It is supposedly demanding and intelligence is a key requirement to remain in the Jesuits. Those in the Jesuit order who do not have the intellectual skills are gently pushed to a different order or so I have been told.

[The Young Pretender]

He was never a Franciscan, in spite of his name. Further, he didn't leave the Jesuits (as most would imagine "leaving" an organisation) so much as be promoted away from the order of his via his ascension from bishop-->archbishop-->cardinal--->pope. Some thoughts on the matter of a relationship between Jesuit bishops and their order: http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pope-francis-still-jesuit


Believe it or not, some of us are quite progressive.

Our (I say that as a baptised Catholic now in Apostasy) leadership and (self-appointed) mouthpieces seldom are, however.

Any "practising" (as in, having sex) queer person is basically living in contrast with Catholic orthodoxy.

[elian]

The world really is changing - the trick is to still try to show compassion and respect to all people - even if they cannot understand same-sex love.

I have been doing a lot of writing in the on-line comments section of our local newspaper this week...here is probably the best I have come up with so far.


Any clergy or church that does not want to perform marriage of same sex couples should not be FORCED to perform a same sex marriage, but equal treatment under the law with respect to benefits, rights and responsibilities should be upheld.

I know several same sex couples and the ones that have known each other long enough to WANT to get married do the same thing that OTHER married couples do in bed..they fall asleep. Do you guys realize just how boring this issue really is once you remove the dirty words from the title?

All of the straight people aren't going to somehow miraculously turn "gay" - there will still be plenty of boys and girls who really like each other. By the same token, LGBT people can get on with their lives as well.

What ISN'T a joke is knowing that your best friend is dying of cancer in a hospital bed because they can't afford the chemotherapy treatments - knowing that although you have loved and been faithful to that person for the last 35 years you can't be at their side because the hospital only allows immediate family to be present. I think that LGBT people who want the right to marry aren't interested in flaunting their sexuality at all - they just want the same basic rights that other people already take for granted.

Some same sex folks would give anything to be accepted by you - some really have tried - but for the majority of folks “ex-gay” therapy doesn't work and it ends up doing more harm than if they would have just acknowledged who they are, accepted it and lived their lives. You can choose who you have sex with, it's a lot harder to choose who you love.

There are same sex couples that are already in Christian churches, and I think the church members can see that commitment between same sex couples is pretty much the same thing as commitment between heterosexuals. There is only one difference. Some of the churches would even perform commitment ceremonies, but of course as of now in this state they cannot perform a marriage.

Jesus never sought to PUNISH anyone, and he never wanted to SEPARATE anyone, the whole point of his ministry was to try to bring people TOGETHER.

His biggest message is that each one of us is capable of doing exactly what he has done - overcome our Earthly "sins" and evolve into something more..divine light. That authority did not come from the Earthly figure of Jesus..it is an innate ability in all people..he was trying to show us what is possible.

When people fill their heart with divine compassion, mercy, love, forgiveness and show gratitude they naturally turn toward the divine. He must be weeping now at how we have forgotten that essential message. Instead our society is based more on ego and "I" instead of respecting one another, building community and helping each other.

Out of the WHOLE Bible there are only a few passages that seem to support what I am saying, just one or two lines - but to me they make all the difference in the world..

Mark 5:34-43 - "It is your faith that makes you strong"

Matthew 25:35-40 "to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me."

Luke 17:20-24 "the kingdom of God is within you"

John 14 - but especially verse 28 - "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I". Jesus does NOT say that he IS the Father, but that he is an intermediary who helps us.

Not everyone will understand or accept the idea of same sex love, that is okay - you can still be my brother, or my sister, we still depend on each other, we still exist in community and should look out for the welfare of one another.

It is OKAY if you don't understand but please don't condemn another worthy part of creation just because you don't understand it and that makes you feel uncomfortable.

Conditional love is given only if the subject holding our attention makes us feel comfortable, just because something makes us feel uncomfortable doesn't mean that it is not a part of creation..

Unconditional love is the love given by the divine, and it is the source of love that we should seek to emulate. God does not say, "I only love white people", "I only love men", "I only love women". God loves ALL people.

Forgiveness is for ourselves more than for other people. It helps us to let go of that which we are uncomfortable and focus again on divine love.

[tenni]

Post 11
Interesting points YP.

"“Every Pope has a unique charism to share his gifts in helping guide the Roman Catholic Church, and Pope Francis is clearly being guided by the Holy Spirit to give the church needed medicine with Franciscan Spirituality.”

http://catholicws.com/2013/03/pope-francis-a-franciscan-heart/


Semantics or reality? I don’t know. It would be good if the Church could move on certain issues that it is in conflict with many societies. Benedicts was referred to as being an interim Pope who would not be long in the position. That came true in a manner unlike other transitions. I would think that the old guard of the papacy is still in control but time will tell.

[The Young Pretender]

Post 11
Interesting points YP.

"“Every Pope has a unique charism to share his gifts in helping guide the Roman Catholic Church, and Pope Francis is clearly being guided by the Holy Spirit to give the church needed medicine with Franciscan Spirituality.”

http://catholicws.com/2013/03/pope-francis-a-franciscan-heart/


Semantics or reality? I don’t know. It would be good if the Church could move on certain issues that it is in conflict with many societies. Benedicts was referred to as being an interim Pope who would not be long in the position. That came true in a manner unlike other transitions. I would think that the old guard of the papacy is still in control but time will tell.

On the new pope's leadership style: People often see what they wish to see.

I am of the mind to give him more than a month before pigeon-holing him into anything.

[tenni]

On the new pope's leadership style: People often see what they wish to see.

I am of the mind to give him more than a month before pigeon-holing him into anything.

I agree with you. What may happen is that Francis does things differently than the previous Popes. He just may not do the things that you would like to see the Church do differently. His position on abortion and same sex relationships may not be what some people want. He may deal with the sex abuse scandals in a different manner than in the past. It may be a mixed bag. He may show greater tolerance towards some things and not others.

[The Young Pretender]

I agree with you. What may happen is that Francis does things differently than the previous Popes. He just may not do the things that you would like to see the Church do differently. His position on abortion and same sex relationships may not be what some people want. He may deal with the sex abuse scandals in a different manner than in the past. It may be a mixed bag. He may show greater tolerance towards some things and not others.

I don't recall expressing any desire for the RCC to take up any particular agenda. When I "left," I left, unlike a number of other ex-Catholics who for example seem to keep a guard's vigilance over statements from their local bishops and the Vatican and never fail to make some snide comment or remark in whatever forum is available to them. This particular incident came to my attention via an old teacher on FB, and it was remarkable enough for me to pass on here.