Culture of Violence?

[tenni]

Is there a "Culture of Violence" in the USA when compared to other societies?
or
Is there a general Culture of Violence in Western Societies and especially the English speaking cultures?

Culture is the characteristics of a particular group of people, defined by everything from language, religion, cuisine, social habits, attitudes, music and arts.

[matutum]

look at mid-eastern countries,they like to kill!!!

[Realist]

It'd be difficult to deny that question, Tenni.

Pointing out, that we're certainly not the only ones who have started out violently and remained that way, doesn't make it right. Certainly, we fared better than Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and other's regimes. The Crusades, Inquisition, Holocaust, come to mind, too. Lord, the more I write the most I think of! Still, I'd never say we were perfect.

I recently read that the Americans purged the royalty from a sovereign nation, to install our own rule on them. Who was it? Hawaii! Hell, I didn't know that....or, if I did, I'd forgotten it!

I can't ignore that the American Indians were shoved aside and decimated, while the white man took their lands. The British took over India, lands in Africa, China, too. Of course Portugal, Spain, Italy, Germans, Dutch, and everyone else were making conquests, long before we got to it. There's more examples, but I won't beat a dead horse.

Man, as a whole, does not have the most benevolent past. Basically, humans have screwed up more times than they've succeeded in living peacefully. I can think of no instances in history where a people lived in total peace and harmony...........but some did a better job of it, than others.

But, I can think of many instances where we've accomplished great things. If it hadn't been for us, I'm sure most of the world would be speaking German and Japanese, today...maybe Russian, too. We've made huge inroads in technology, medicine, and science, too.

But, as an old sergeant once told me, "One 'Aw, Shit!' can ruin a whole lot of ATTA-BOYS!"

Is there an Utopia? I wonder.......

You've long made it clear what you think of this country and it's policies. It seems that you've lost a lot of sleep over the subject and, believe it, or not, I agree with some of your accusations. But, as in so many of your personal opinions, I disagree that we're the premier culture of violence that you seem to think we are.

"Those with no sin should throw the first stone"!

[tenni]

Realist
This is not my view. This statement/accusation was made about the US by a US journalist on the US television show this morning (The View) in regards to the violent murders that have happened in the US this past week and the previous five or so (20 ?) years.

Some people are making this statement in the US and Canada that it is within the culture in the form of violent movies and gaming etc. Shooting young children eleven times is quite close to a gaming situation where the player may shoot the opponent excessively and without emotion was pointed out by a psychologist. The dehumanizing of life in these games may be a cultural factor. In that respect the US culture is presently invasive in other English speaking societies. Canada is deeply impacted by the US culture that it exports. The question remains is about western English speaking culture or just the US. There is no point in dealing with violence in one culture by referring to other cultures in the mid east etc. It may be a Western English speaking culture that transcends countries? These movies and violent gaming programmes are sold throughout North America and Europe. They are played on the internet.

Does technological advances make up for the violence ingrained in a culture? Is violence a value and attitude that anyone wants their culture to be known for? A survivor of Colombine just stated on the CBCnewsworld that the US education system values academic (knowledge recall) success rather than character and humane traits instilled in students.

PS Realist
I have been very much aware of what happened in Hawaii and many believe that the US culture has a very violent history from its beginning. Things are not getting better though are they?

[gen11]

What other cultures do isn't relevant. On this one I believe there IS a culture of violence in the US (I can't speak for Canada, not being a Canadian), and I blame as the fundamental, underlying cause the rise of militant secularism over the past 20 years. I'm as close to an athiest as a man can get and not be one; but I see clearly that the removal of religious values from our society, along with the abdication of parenting by parents and the subtle teaching of children that they do not have to take responsibility for their actions -- all creating and fanning a raging inferno of narcissism -- is the root cause. And it's all over the US.

[void()]

What other cultures do isn't relevant. On this one I believe there IS a culture of violence in the US (I can't speak for Canada, not being a Canadian), and I blame as the fundamental, underlying cause the rise of militant secularism over the past 20 years. I'm as close to an athiest as a man can get and not be one; but I see clearly that the removal of religious values from our society, along with the abdication of parenting by parents and the subtle teaching of children that they do not have to take responsibility for their actions -- all creating and fanning a raging inferno of narcissism -- is the root cause. And it's all over the US.

Check out the lowly mentioned fact that Rockefeller funded the women's
liberation movement. The motive behind it was to further encourage
children being held as state property. "Sure, let the moms work. The
state can raise the kids, make 'em all good little soldiers."

And no, I'm not saying that is all there is at fault, or that this
gesture was the sole rationale for some of what you suggest is
happening. One does need to consider a larger view finder to look
through, see more factors. This is just one of many over the years.

America would have been better off as the protectionist state it
was in the 1930's, imho. Keep our nose in our own business instead
of all over the world and distracted.

[chuck1124]

Gen, yours is the most lucid and astute observation I have heard. Even if you are not religious, you have to see that removing religion from our culture and left a void that narcissism has filled in. I can see so many examples that we teach our children that what they want and feel is all that is important. That your own pleasure and desire trumps that of any one else. Its that "what's in it for me" mindset that causes these situations.

[Realist]

Tenni, I do agree about the videos and some Rap music degrading a listener/gamer's thought process. Some kids talk about that stuff like it's real! I try to keep an open mind, but how can such constant, in-your-face, music and videos not affect the listeners?

I was sitting at a stop light, the racket in the next car was rattling my windows, pounding out, "Kill the muthafuckas", over and over. Video games repeat violence a lot, too.

How could anyone not be affected by the same theme being drummed into their heads for hours/days at a time? It's worse than Castro giving one of his four-hour speeches, drilling his dogma into his subjects.

I don't know....I'm glad I'm an old man, probably won't live too long. I was born in 1940 and as far as I'm concerned I've lived through some of the best of times. Guess I'll just take what I've had and be thankful for it.

[fpb09]

GEN11 THANK YOU! YOU GOT IT BRIGHT 100%, MAY I USE IT TO RE POST ON FACEBOOK ! THIS NEEDS TO BE OUT THERE!

[gen11]

fpb09: If you find it worthy, be my guest.

void(): Rockafeller's official biography, TITAN, by Ron Chernow, may be of interest to you. It is likely to change your perceptions of the man.

[tenni]

gen11
What are these religious values that you are referring to?

Can these values be held by the non religious(such as yourself)?

Certainly, last Friday the adults (teachers) believed in self sacrifice to protect young children as if they were their own children. This value is actually an extreme practice of the "teacher culture" and is either within the value system of those who are drawn to teaching young children or is expected from those within the culture of teaching. (i.e. I have known teachers who took part of or all of their own lunch to share with a young student who had no lunch) It may be scorned or ridiculed by other sections of a culture though. It may be possible that self sacrifice is not valued by the US culture ..let alone rewarded or seen to be something other than foolish by a culture. I would suspect that most people feel that in this extreme form of teacher culture values would not be questioned this week. However, does the US culture reward this type of value? There probably will be movies glorifying the behaviour of these dead teachers. So, what is going wrong within the culture?

Taking responsibility for your own actions is a value but is it a religious value?

Taking care of number one even at the expense of others is also a value (narcissism). It may be seen as a corporate "business value" that has been taken to the extreme by some. Is this a US cultural value that is reflected in books, movies and computer games that youth use?

[jem_is_bi]

Check out the lowly mentioned fact that Rockefeller funded the women's
liberation movement. The motive behind it was to further encourage
children being held as state property. "Sure, let the moms work. The
state can raise the kids, make 'em all good little soldiers."

And no, I'm not saying that is all there is at fault, or that this
gesture was the sole rationale for some of what you suggest is
happening. One does need to consider a larger view finder to look
through, see more factors. This is just one of many over the years.

America would have been better off as the protectionist state it
was in the 1930's, imho. Keep our nose in our own business instead
of all over the world and distracted.

I do not agree to turning a blind eye to what is happening in other countries.
BUT, we are way to willing to use extreme military violence to fix our perception of what is wrong with others.

[12voltman59]

I do think that America does have a culture of violence to some degree---it has been part and parcel of this nation--even before it became independent---look at the way the early European settlers dealt the the native peoples---they tried in some ways to crush them and then there is the many hundreds of years of slavery and after to consider. Slavery by its very nature is an extremely violent act.

We have always gloried and romanticized war.

I go to an observation my mother made when we first went to EPCOT center at Disney World not long after it opened----in the various pavilions featuring countries around the world--she noted that ones like for China and Canada extolled things like each country's natural beauty-while the American one---it featured films and animatronic historical figures talking about all the wars we have fought beginning with the Revolutionary War and going up to more modern ones.

Many people here in the US---have bumper stickers on their cars that say things like "America was made great by God, Guns, Guts and Glory" or some variation thereof.

Heck----Hollywood sure glorifies our violent history--from flicks about "the wild west" to our films about fighting WWII and even all the mobster stories like the Godfather and the Sopranos.

The late comedian George Carlin often talked about in his shows at how its just fine that we can have movies that show mass slaughter--but if you have a movie that features an intimate, explicit scene of love making between two consenting adults---that is what is OBSCENE and for all practical purposes---has always been prohibited---at first thanks to things like the Hays Commission and today by movie theater operators that will not show films with any rating above an "R" because they cannot show such films to their main target audience---kids from their early teen years on up---but have a film that shows people being cut up by a mad man or blown up in spectacular explosions in "block buster films"--that is just fine!!

[maggie1974]

As a UK citizen it is hard to comment in that we only ever here about extreme incidents from the US, but I was so saddened by the recent shootings and there seem to have been so many, too many, in the recent US past. So sad.

[zigzig]

I think that the reason for recent youth becoming violent, is because parents aren't so strict anymore and kids have more rights then their parents.
Violence is everywhere, because a human has an animal side as well. There was a research on chimpanzees, who are the cruelest apes/ monkeys on the planet, and eat the most amount of meat. They get high, when killing, torturing another chimp entering their territory.

[tenni]

One Canadian reporter's view on the reaction to violence as a part of a culture of violence. His comment on the US media's response to violent incidents. Certainly media is part of a culture and that includes various US television programmes ranging from Ellen to the Voice's response to last Friday's tragedy.

Salutin refers to the US media reaction as a "lethal self absorption that goes from one crisis to the next without any real solutions.
American media coverage of the Connecticut school shooting seemed less about the lives lost than about the U.S. habit of self-centred dramatization.
That nation is always dealing from one crisis to the next. This happens whether it is about Hurricane Sandy, the Fiscal Cliff or these murders. Self centred dramatization in the US is a vicarious kick that needs to get more intense to get the "fix" with each increasing incident". He refers to the US media as taking a "warm bath in its pain".


http://www.thestar.com/videos/article/1304346--salutin-sandy-hook-and-america-s-lethal-self-absorption

Some have pointed out that with all this self absorption, there is little media coverage about US drones killing innocent young children in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

[gen11]

I am a former newsprint journalist, from the days when journalism was the "Fourth Estate" and an essential part of the foundation and function of the United States government and cluture. It's function in that venue was to keep the other three "estates" honest and to keep the citizens subject to them informed of their actions. (It has NEVER been the fuction of the media to provide solutions, incidently.) As I think I have written here before, with the Huntly-Brinkley Report, news journalism took a fatal turn toward entertainment. Huntly and Brinkley were old-school journalists, members of the Fourth Estate, but their network's new format of presenting news as entertainment, seeking ratings, etc., was the very first step over the slippery slope into the slimy bog into which 99% if not all media, electronic and print, now exists. It is anything for one or both of media's pagan gods: ratings and political agendas. In my opinion the Canadian journalist is, in general, correct, except in the implied view that it is media's responsibility, even in part, to provide solutions to social or political ills. That's ours.

[darkeyes]

In my opinion the Canadian journalist is, in general, correct, except in the implied view that it is media's responsibility, even in part, to provide solutions to social or political ills. That's ours.So u are saying Gen dear.. gag the press??? Because that is exactly what u are saying... deprive the press of freedom of speech... tyrants would love u....

[gen11]

Darkeyes, you misread and you misunderstand -- completely. So completely, in fact, that I'm not going to even attempt to explain how.

[Nadielosabe]

I am a Spanish man, so I might not know a lot about the USA and its culture, other than what I have seen on TV or what some friends who have spent some time there. However, I do not think it is as violent as people might think. Wars have been glorified in every culture, save a few exceptions. Even before Europeans arrived to the New World, Native Americans warred against each other. In fact, when the Spaniards arrived to South America, lots of indigenous tribes allied themselves with them to defeat the Aztecs, who they considered their traditional enemies. Of course, this backfired for them, because as soon as the Aztecs were out of the picture, the Spaniards created a law system that prohibited most of the Native Americans (except for a privileged few who were called Nobleza Indigena or Indian Nobility and were for the most part allowed to mingle with the wealthy Spanish elite) the access to relevant social positions. The same thing happens everywhere, war and violence has been considered a normal thing until very recently. Also I do not think it has to do with gun ownership. In Switzerland it is also a constitutional right to own a gun and know how to use it, yet you fail to see a Swiss teen entering a high school and killing his classmates. Also, in many other countries military service is compulsory and all able-bodied males (and some females) know how to use a gun. In fact, I would say that abolishing compulsory military service (in Spain or in the United States) has been one step to render the general population defenceless against the abuses of the government. However, we must differentiate 'violence' from 'thuggery'. In my humble opinion, violence is an appropiate response to a situacion where you fear for your life or for the safety of someone close to you. Believe me, I am as liberal as they come, but if somebody dares to mess with someone I love, I am not exactly a merciful person... thuggery, on the other hand, is using violence when it is really not necessary. It is what separates a bully from a hero. And I agree with what Gen said... parents right now are rarely involved in a child's life, if at all.

[void()]

fpb09: If you find it worthy, be my guest.

void(): Rockafeller's official biography, TITAN, by Ron Chernow, may be of interest to you. It is likely to change your perceptions of the man.

It may, not saying my mind is closed. Better to see more and learn more.

[darkeyes]

Darkeyes, you misread and you misunderstand -- completely. So completely, in fact, that I'm not going to even attempt to explain how.
I did:eek2:? I do:yikes2:? You're not?:confused:

You crack me up!!! :cutelaugh

[jem_is_bi]

Is there a "Culture of Violence" in the USA when compared to other societies?
or
Is there a general Culture of Violence in Western Societies and especially the English speaking cultures?

Culture is the characteristics of a particular group of people, defined by everything from language, religion, cuisine, social habits, attitudes, music and arts.

Maybe. But what about hockey?

[tenni]

Maybe. But what about hockey?

Yes...what about hockey? Point taken. Dust ups and dropping the gloves is part of hockey. Checking is violent in appearance. Hockey is a key Canadian cultural icon. not so much in the US.

What about NFL football? What about Ultimate Fighting?

[Realist]

I never got interested in sports; I'd rather use that energy to build something, but I did get into boxing for a while. I tried out for the US Army boxing team, in Germany, but failed to make the grade. Getting into a scrape in a bar over some alcohol- generated conflict, or over a lover, was a lot different than being in the ring! Over confidiance and not getting to know my opponent, resulted in my hitting the mat in the 3rd round.

Best thing ever happened to me, was failing to make the team!

Some of the guys on military teams were bad dudes! I've known guys who boxed and many of them developed physical quirks, life-long injuries, and even mental issues. Other than some mental issues (self diagnosis) I've lasted this long without conflicts, since then.

I do wonder (if I had been a more successful fighter) if I would have continued, to end up suffering from battle-damaged problems?

Violence seems to perpetuate itself.........those who are best at something, usually keep doing it.

[gen11]

[Violence seems to perpetuate itself.........those who are best at something, usually keep doing it.[/QUOTE]


Scary . . . because it rings so very true.