Tired of hearing so called Christians...

[Dead Account]

Babbling on and on at work about how wrong gay marriage is, how it's for a man and a woman, how our country is falling apart because of it. And they have the nerve to refer to everyone as blind sheep- how blind they really are. And they hate when I remind them of the time Christ allowed a prostitute to wash his feet. True tolerance and unconditional love is what this world is really missing. Along with all the good things bi people and gay people are doing for the community in hiding- I really do think intolerance and lack of unconditional love will be what causes the world to fall into chaos, not warring nations and fighting factions. My two cents. Rant out....

[void()]

Frankly, I appreciate the message in a song written by Neil Pert of Rush about thirty some odd years ago. The song is Book II: Hemispheres on the self titled album. In the ethos of that song Pert weaves a tale about the god Cygnus, whom discovers that both the wisdom of Apollo and love of Dionysus were needed in order for mankind to survive. Cygnus accordingly was named the god of balance by the gods of old.

I think most major and many minor world religions, philosophies emphasis this as a kernel of life's truths. And balance combines unconditional love and tolerance. Staying in balance though is one hell of an uphill climb for all, both individually and collectively. Know for sure I struggle. Took a great deal of thought and mustering of courage to respond here. Concur with you upon a vision which is worth facing adversities to manifest. Likely some may try saying otherwise of me, or otherwise attempt degrading this response.

Realized while sitting here reading your post this final time, I don't care about detractors. We can all only do, be as best we're able. No one person can please all others. None of us was ever meant to as far as I know. Also agree with you about fanatics ruining the better part of these worthy religions, philosophies. Curse balance for my agreement with you. ;) Hopefully, more folks will come to understand this. Thank you for providing an opportunity to express it.

[biguy1940]

Im tired of hearing them whining about how everyone hates them...and if everyone hates them what does that say about them?, hmmmm....their latest rant is that its the fault of the liberal media that tim tebow is so overrated because the medis hates christians...but youll notice that they never tire of trying to get people to accept their concept of how everyone should live their lives (and for a few bucks theyll save you a place in heaven) ...what a load of hypocritical bulls**t they spew...i dont trust anyone who publicly professes their religion....RELIGION = POLITICS ..sacred cows make great barbeque

[biblkman]

I know right, half of these christians aren't devout, and or don't go to church and barely read the bible, but are quick to hide behind it to justify there own prejudices, and intolerance, the same bible that they believe in but hardly read is full of double standards and contraindications and views women as less or benieth men. I wish those people would form there OWN opinion through experience rather than adopt someone else's or words in a book written over a thousand years ago !

[goldenfinger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaV2ZrGXq8g
Then why do christians still need health insurance when prayers has proven so effective in the US only.:yikes2:

[DiamondDog]

Where do you work at? It's time to find a new job. At all the jobs both paid and volunteering jobs I have ever had I have never heard anyone of any religion including Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, spiritual people, etc. and even Atheists and Agnostics proselytize their religion or beliefs at all. Also not all Christians and people of other religions/spiritualities are against LGBT people.

[gladius]

Thank you, Diamond Dog, for not being such the bigot as the other posters.

[whitehawk]

Ask them what they know about the Council Of Nicea

[void()]

Thank you, Diamond Dog, for not being such the bigot as the other posters.

Thanks for clarifying that. Now I know what you meant several weeks ago.
As we're being clear, think I know when someone is baiting. That is a tactic
of trolling. Also, I don't appreciate your slander.

[bisexualman1980]

I also get sick of Christians acting like they are the ones being persecuted. I know that some Christian denominations are accepting of the LGBT community, which is awesome, but they remain the minority. And I know that many people who are Christian "ignore" those parts of the religion that they don't like, such as the ones that condemn homosexuals, birth control, etc. But if a person supports a religion whose dogma is against those things, regardless of whether he or she follows that dogma, it's not helping the situation at all. It means they are silently supporting prejudice and hate, which is just not okay. Ignoring the issue never makes it go away.

[justcurious28]

Yes, isn't it disgusting how people follow the Bible! Especially, makes me mad that they claim America was founded by those fleeing persecution from the Church of England. Then, they tried to take credit for the founding of the country, the Constitution, "One Nation Under God" and freedom of religion.

I really like what you said here...

"And I know that many people who are Christian "ignore" those parts of the religion that they don't like, such as the ones that condemn homosexuals, birth control, etc. But if a person supports a religion whose dogma is against those things, regardless of whether he or she follows that dogma, it's not helping the situation at all. It means they are silently supporting prejudice and hate, which is just not okay. Ignoring the issue never makes it go away."

Now, take that other religion....you know the one with 1.5 billion followers? I can at least respect those folks because they believe almost all parts of their religion. I know you can appreciate them too because they are not like those Christians who "ignore" the parts they don't like.

Like you implied, Chrstians are prejudice haters always whining about persecution and they treat women and gays like crap. Who are they to think they can impose their beliefs on me?Bigots! I much prefer a more tolerant and gay friendly religion like the one with those 1.5 billion followers.

If I go over there to say the Middle East, they surely will be more understanding towards gays and women. At least, then I would not have to put up with those freakin' Christians here.

Besides I don't believe all that stuff they say about those people over there. What is an "honor killing" anyway? Stories of raping their sisters and stoning them to death is all propaganda. Their teachings are about peace and love unlike those "so called" Christian zealots who try to follow the Bible. You can't even depend on them to do that now can you? They try to claim the Bible (which they don't follow), is the best selling book of all time! That book is pure hate and has so many bad teachings.

Those Christians will impose their beliefs on you and kill you if you don't convert. I just hate that...happens all the time all over the world. Maybe, it would be good to start some openly gay groups in the Middle East where there are not so many close minded religious zealots. You know, spread the word and preach tolerance. Give it a try.

[void()]

Yes, isn't it disgusting how people follow that dusty old book called the Bible. Especially, makes me mad that America was founded by those claiming persecution from the Church of England. 1. They were Muslims, right? 2. This is how our Constituition and "One Nation Under God" and all that religious stuff came about isn't it?

Those Christians treat women so poorly and the especially gays. Who are they to think they can impose their beliefs on me?Bigots! I much prefer a more tolerant and gay friendly religion like Islam. They are really gay friendly and for women's rights. Don't believe that stuff about honor killings, raping their sisters and stoning them to death. It is all Zionist propaganda. 3. Anybody who follows their beliefs must be idiots especially those who follow the Bible. That book is pure hate and has so many bad teachings.

Now, take that Muslim book and there you have real tolerance towards gays and those who believe differently. 4. Those Christians will impose their beliefs on you and kill you if you don't convert. I just hate that...happens all the time all over the world. Maybe, for the National Organization of Women who champion women's rights, should have their annual meetings in Riyad. Maybe, it would be good to start some openly gay groups in the Middle East where there are not so many close minded religious zealots. You know, spread the word and preach tolerance. Give it a try.

1. They were Muslims, right?

I do not recall, nor do I see in reviewing this thread where anyone posting
stated that those whom founded America were of any particular religion.

2. This is how our Constitution and "One Nation Under God" and all that
religious stuff came about isn't it?

The original pledge of allegiance did not infer any god. The Constitution does
not infer any god either. One may believe in a divine creator or not. Not all
those whom founded America were Christians. Some were Unitarian, Quakers,
Atheists, Liberated Thinkers. There may have been Muslims, Jews, Hindus as well.
The Constitution explicitly states our government will never define a national
religion, further a treaty expresses this explicitly as well later.

Here is the original pledge of allegiance.

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." -- Francis Bellamy

The words "under God" were not amended unto the pledge until 1954. Many still
are in disagreement over them being added, as they seem to infer a national
religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli


3. Anybody who follows their beliefs must be idiots especially those who follow
the Bible.

Again, an assertion of something not said in this thread.

4. Those Christians will impose their beliefs on you and kill you if you don't
convert.

There is historical proof that fanatics of most religions, if not all, have at
one time or another killed those refusing to convert to them. Christianity is
not blameless, nor has it been said they are alone in blame.


Such false assertions seem likely brandied about as fodder in effort to continue
an argument which does not exist in this thread, and to slander and troll. Please
stop.

[tenni]

re Post 11

I think that the OP referred to these types of people as "so called". You may add any religion where some practise it with too much rigidity and bigotry. It doesn't matter whether it is Christian or Islam.

Today, I was reading about Petraeus resignation and how his resignation was really an indication of "prudes" in the government and society. There is an argument that anyone who has a sexual affair at high government levels is endangering the security of the country. The argument is once any such cheating is revealed publicly then the matter no longer is about government security.

If prudery or bigotry is removed, a lot might change. Whether a government official or anyone has a sexual preference differing from the majority or sex with anyone is really a private matter. If it doesn't matter morally by some groups standards then there is no power for the extremists whatever religion they claim to follow.

[Dead Account]

I find that hard to believe.

[darkeyes]

I find that hard to believe.
In anglo-saxon societies sure.. but the French cope with it ok in the main.. pretty laissez faire with what folk do in their private life.... didn't matter who Mitterand shagged... or ne other politician.. or that Holland dumped Segoline Royal or that he is shacked up nowadays with Val Trierweiler.. public figures more or less can be bi str8 or gay and their private life is more or less their own.. it's outside France in anglo-saxon countries we titter and judge...

..the French attitude does have its down side.. arseholes like Strauss-Khan can get away with murder more or less sexually in France and it does serve to mitigate against sexual equality...

..as for Christians some can be pretty grim and judgemental but most in the UK at least are pretty compassionate and tolerant.. even those who disagree with same sex marriage.. they base their opposition on their teachings and their "good book" but most in my experience dont worry too much about us queer lot and accept us for who and what we are.. most don't follow their religions slavishly even if often I have fun having good argy bargy with them...like the US there are bigots tho fewer of them and less vocal and to our eyes strange.. the OP talks of "some Christians" not all.. and any Christian who denies that there are those who are or claim to be Christian who are bigoted arseholes who lie, pervert and twist scripture and what their saviour is supposed to have preached for their own purposes and who hate us for being gay or bisexual or transgendered as our kind has been hated for centuries by their kind is either a liar or a fool or one of those bigoted arseholes or one, two or all of these things.

[12voltman59]

It does get me that the hardcore element of Christians like to say that they are "literalists" when it comes to the Bible, but the reality of that is----to be a 100% Biblical literalist in this modern world----if you really did do that---you would of course be living in a crude dwelling, not driving a car, flying in an airplane, not using any sort of modern device because I guess if you are such a literalist about the Bible---since you would believe as the late Jerry Fallwell loved to say: "All you need to live life is to believe and follow this book" holding one up with "The Good Book" not saying anything about such inventions.

Forget all of the physical things---if you tried to follow in the shoes of many of the figures of the Bible and lived life as they did----you would either be one of four things: locked in a mental ward, be sentenced to spend the rest of your days in prison or be on death row or have already been executed for all the horrid things you have done like sacrifice your first born, own slaves, have scores of concubines and "God only knows what!"

The reality is regarding the Bible---the best ANYONE can do is to "cherry pick" the thing, so there is really no one alive today who is a true "Biblical Literalist"

It also seems to me--that for being Christians----instead of modeling ones's life and such on the New Testament, looking at the things that Jesus taught and more importantly the ways He lived his life and the things he did---like be with the poor, be a thorn in the side of "the powers that be" of the time---they seem to only use Jesus in name----but instead are more doing things in the style of the Old Testament.

It is often said--the Old Testament was about "the God of judgement" and the New Testament is about "the God of Love."

It just seems to me that this version of Christians are more about following The God of Judgement over the God of Love and they therefore, are not true Christians at all!

[tenni]

In anglo-saxon societies sure.. but the French cope with it ok in the main.. pretty laissez faire with what folk do in their private life.... didn't matter who Mitterand shagged... or ne other politician.. or that Holland dumped Segoline Royal or that he is shacked up nowadays with Val Trierweiler.. public figures more or less can be bi str8 or gay and their private life is more or less their own.. it's outside France in anglo-saxon countries we titter and judge...

..the French attitude does have its down side.. arseholes like Strauss-Khan can get away with murder more or less sexually in France and it does serve to mitigate against sexual equality...

..as for Christians some can be pretty grim and judgemental but most in the UK at least are pretty compassionate and tolerant.. even those who disagree with same sex marriage.. they base their opposition on their teachings and their "good book" but most in my experience dont worry too much about us queer lot and accept us for who and what we are.. most don't follow their religions slavishly even if often I have fun having good argy bargy with them...like the US there are bigots tho fewer of them and less vocal and to our eyes strange.. the OP talks of "some Christians" not all.. and any Christian who denies that there are those who are or claim to be Christian who are bigoted arseholes who lie, pervert and twist scripture and what their saviour is supposed to have preached for their own purposes and who hate us for being gay or bisexual or transgendered as our kind has been hated for centuries by their kind is either a liar or a fool or one of those bigoted arseholes or one, two or all of these things.


I'm not quite sure what the OP's anticedent of the word "that" was?

However, dark eyes, in many English speaking countries (not necessarily anglo saxon is the US now?) there may be radical extremists whether Christian or other religions. I'm not convinced that it is the English speakers (or anglo saxon) that is a factor today as to why some societies are less concerned about sexual behaviour. Canada is a biligual country and so you might state that it is the French in us that makes us a bit less over zealous about sexual behaviour. Certainly, Canada has its extremist religious folks but they are muffled to some extent in dominating judgement. Even though deep down the majority of the Conservative government may want to condemn the sexual deviants, they know that the society will not tolerate that intolerance any more. Sure, we had a cabinet minister a few years back get kicked out of cabinet for leaving important NATO confidential documents at his girlfriends. She was flaunting the bodaciousness of her bosom at times. He was single and let back in to the cabinet. It was the forgetfulness and not the sexual activity that got him the boot. Cabinet ministers may be gay without a concern. City mayors may be gay. In my province we have a lesbian running for the party leadership and she is not the first.

No, it may be something else but it is true that the French have been less concerned about hetero extra maritial affairs. Are they also less concerned about same sex affairs?

[darkeyes]

I'm not quite sure what the OP's anticedent of the word "that" was?

However, dark eyes, in many English speaking countries (not necessarily anglo saxon is the US now?) there may be radical extremists whether Christian or other religions. I'm not convinced that it is the English speakers (or anglo saxon) that is a factor today as to why some societies are less concerned about sexual behaviour. Canada is a biligual country and so you might state that it is the French in us that makes us a bit less over zealous about sexual behaviour. Certainly, Canada has its extremist religious folks but they are muffled to some extent in dominating judgement. Even though deep down the majority of the Conservative government may want to condemn the sexual deviants, they know that the society will not tolerate that intolerance any more. Sure, we had a cabinet minister a few years back get kicked out of cabinet for leaving important NATO confidential documents at his girlfriends. She was flaunting the bodaciousness of her bosom at times. He was single and let back in to the cabinet. It was the forgetfulness and not the sexual activity that got him the boot. Cabinet ministers may be gay without a concern. City mayors may be gay. In my province we have a lesbian running for the party leadership and she is not the first.

No, it may be something else but it is true that the French have been less concerned about hetero extra maritial affairs. Are they also less concerned about same sex affairs?
I took "that" to be in response to Voidie and in particular his comment about bigotry and prudery in the previous post ..he will surely correct me if I am wrong... while it is true that in France like in anglo saxon societies there is much anti homosexuality, most French people don't worry too much about since it comes under the category of the "private life".. if such a gay or same sex relationship between bisexuals is exposed there is no doubt that there is more consternation and condemnation about it than had it been heterosexual, but such is the more relaxed attitude of the French that most even then would be more horrified of it being made public than the fact that it was between people of the same sex... male or female.

We have extreme religious peeps of all religions, not just Christianity.. but in respect of Christianity we have far fewer of them than for instance the US.. people such as Phelps and such other bampots are laughed at in the UK and we find it difficult to comprehend why in America such people proliferate... Britons in the main, certainly Christian Britons, do not wear their religions so much on their sleeve... they do not invoke God (except me and I'm an atheist *laffs*) at every turn and are far more reserved and private about religious belief.. they are not so loud about it. They are mostly uncomfortable with what they perceive as the American way of religion, in particular Christianity, which seems to them to be somewhat insincere very often. Far fewer Britons are religious at all far less Christian in comparison to the US, but our society is very much based on Christian principles and tradition and the overwhelming majority of the population would not wish that to change whether they are Christian or not.

You are right of course tenni.. the US is no longer anglo saxon... yet much of US society and its institutions remain steeped in the anglo-saxon tradition.. and when I discuss the extremes of religion, primarily I discuss what is mainly the old white anglo-saxon extremes in many ways as represented by the right-wing wierdos of much of the Republican Party and the myriad of small extreme white male dominated churches.

[darkeyes]

I took "that" to be in response to Voidie and in particular his comment about bigotry and prudery in the previous post ..he will surely correct me if I am wrong... while it is true that in France like in anglo saxon societies there is much anti homosexuality, most French people don't worry too much about since it comes under the category of the "private life".. if such a gay or same sex relationship between bisexuals is exposed there is no doubt that there is more consternation and condemnation about it than had it been heterosexual, but such is the more relaxed attitude of the French that most even then would be more horrified of it being made public than the fact that it was between people of the same sex... male or female.

We have extreme religious peeps of all religions, not just Christianity.. but in respect of Christianity we have far fewer of them than for instance the US.. people such as Phelps and such other bampots are laughed at in the UK and we find it difficult to comprehend why in America such people proliferate... Britons in the main, certainly Christian Britons, do not wear their religions so much on their sleeve... they do not invoke God (except me and I'm an atheist *laffs*) at every turn and are far more reserved and private about religious belief.. they are not so loud about it. They are mostly uncomfortable with what they perceive as the American way of religion, in particular Christianity, which seems to them to be somewhat insincere very often. Far fewer Britons are religious at all far less Christian in comparison to the US, but our society is very much based on Christian principles and tradition and the overwhelming majority of the population would not wish that to change whether they are Christian or not.

You are right of course tenni.. the US is no longer anglo saxon... yet much of US society and its institutions remain steeped in the anglo-saxon tradition.. and when I discuss the extremes of religion, primarily I discuss what is mainly the old white anglo-saxon extremes in many ways as represented by the right-wing wierdos of much of the Republican Party and the myriad of small extreme white male dominated churches.
..People hankering for a past which will never return with a nation fast changing and becoming quite another place where the white anglo-saxon extremes and yesterday's people are increasingly left out on the fringe of American society... both religiously and politically...

[Dead Account]

@Darkeyes- I was just referring to the person who said he figured I needed to change jobs because he had never heard this before from religious folk. I hear it all the time. I'm amazed at how blind some people really are.

[darkeyes]

@Darkeyes- I was just referring to the person who said he figured I needed to change jobs because he had never heard this before from religious folk. I hear it all the time. I'm amazed at how blind some people really are.
k.. I accept that.. soz.. next time tho, be a little more clear about what u refer to... it helps:)

[void()]

I took "that" to be in response to Voidie and in particular his comment about bigotry and prudery in the previous post ..he will surely correct me if I am wrong...

No, you were correct regarding my comment, it addressed the slander.
The OP though was commenting upon something else it seems. *chuckles*
Apologies for stating the obvious.

[_Joe_]

I've actually bookmarked a book I want to pick up and read soon, it's concerning the several hundred of hears that the Catholic church was OK with marrying gay couples. There was quite a bit of evidence in murals/paintings to support literature for all of this. Of course, the author was gay, died of AIDS related issues, and the church used that against him to destroy his credibility -- despite his involvement with the church.

[gladius]

Thanks for clarifying that. Now I know what you meant several weeks ago.
As we're being clear, think I know when someone is baiting. That is a tactic
of trolling. Also, I don't appreciate your slander.

I have no idea of what you are talking about, then again, I never have.

[IanBorthwick]

2+2=4.


I have no idea of what you are talking about, then again, I never have.

Just about sums that up, I think.

[void()]

I have no idea of what you are talking about, then again, I never have.

A few weeks ago in chat you said to me, it would get worse. I had no clue what you were speaking of at the time. I honestly had not spoken directly to you, rather generally to anyone in chat. I do not know you and that comment struck me as really out in left field. As far as I know in this thread is the first and only time I've addressed you directly.

"It's only going to get worse, void."

If I recall correctly, I wasn't even chatting with anyone at the time. I was lurking. miamiau was in chat and he noted the comment as well. With your accusations here, that comment now makes sense.

So now you're clear on what I'm talking about. I did not miscommunicate.

Further with you stating you never have known what I'm talking about you imply familiarity. This lends more credibility to my thought of you being a troll, possibly an alternate alias in use for someone else on this site.

[gladius]

A few weeks ago in chat you said to me, it would get worse. I had no clue what you were speaking of at the time. I honestly had not spoken directly to you, rather generally to anyone in chat. I do not know you and that comment struck me as really out in left field. As far as I know in this thread is the first and only time I've addressed you directly.

"It's only going to get worse, void."

If I recall correctly, I wasn't even chatting with anyone at the time. I was lurking. miamiau was in chat and he noted the comment as well. With your accusations here, that comment now makes sense.

So now you're clear on what I'm talking about. I did not miscommunicate.

Further with you stating you never have known what I'm talking about you imply familiarity. This lends more credibility to my thought of you being a troll, possibly an alternate alias in use for someone else on this site.

See if this shoe fits, Mr. Paranoia; you knew exactly what I was talking about in the chat room that day, and as far as not understanding you, I've read enough of your posts to come to that conclusion. As for your lurking, what in the hell does that imply; spying?

[nothings5d]

No, you were correct regarding my comment, it addressed the slander.

It wasn't slander...


In print it's called libel.

[Wishful]

Before this thread dies out, I'd like to comment that I am both a Christian and a closet wannabe bi. There are many Christians (like me) who have left the organized churches because they give us the impression that they only want our money and to tell us what to do and think. For myself, it is something of a struggle to follow this path through life, especially since so many in the US condemn those of us who are different from them. I dream of a society where the human body is accepted as a wonderful gift, to be viewed with appreciation rather than kept hidden behind clothing when conditions do not require clothes. In that society sexual differences would be accepted and encouraged, so everyone could find their own path to happiness. The only limitations I would want are those that protect the individual from being forced into sexual actions against their will.

[void()]

See if this shoe fits, Mr. Paranoia; you knew exactly what I was talking about in the chat room that day, and as far as not understanding you, I've read enough of your posts to come to that conclusion. As for your lurking, what in the hell does that imply; spying?

I'm glad you're able to tell me what I do and don't know, and when. Tell you what, you can take over being me for a while.
I did not know what you were talking about, period, full stop. I do now from your postings here.

Lurk (http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/lurk)ing does not imply or infer 'spying'. Read definition number three. One need not have a specific reason to not engage in conversation. Valid possible reasons are the conversation/s are not relevant or of interest to someone, they may feel unable to discuss the issues being conversed, a person may be thinking about some other issue or the ones discussed and just seeking a consensus of peers. One does not need to be spying to be lurking. I may as well have said lingered, hung around.

The point being, I was not really talking with anyone. You speak up and tell me this you did. I had no idea what was meant. I may have commented that I was bored. Beyond that, really don't recall talking much then.

[void()]

It wasn't slander...


In print it's called libel.

Thanks, I wasn't sure but did recognize it as being a false statement about me.

[DiamondDog]

@Darkeyes- I was just referring to the person who said he figured I needed to change jobs because he had never heard this before from religious folk. I hear it all the time. I'm amazed at how blind some people really are.

Nope I'm not ignorant or blind, and I do pay attention. Either way I'm not here to feed your personal drama or issues Doogie. I was simply writing from my experiences working at various jobs for decades and how at the many jobs I've worked even for Roman Catholics my co-workers, managers, and bosses didn't talk about their religion or spirituality and I did not either.

The topic is about work or the workplace only. You didn't mention being outside of the workplace or being around religious and/or spiritual people in general so I didn't address that topic and when I've been outside of the workplace with people who happen to be religious and/or spiritual some do bring it up but you're not forced to listen to them, so I just get them talking about something else unless they're a friend of mine.

If you don't like people who talk openly about their religion and/or spirituality at work tell them this. Or tell them how you don't want to talk about something personal at work. Most people are not mind readers so you'll actually have to tell them this and communicate with them. Bitching about it on an internet forum does no good.

I've met heterosexual Christians, muslims, Jews, Pagans/Wiccans, Buddhists, and people of other religions and spiritualities who are fine with LGBT people and who don't hate us.

[pepperjack]

Nope I'm not ignorant or blind, and I do pay attention. Either way I'm not here to feed your personal drama or issues Doogie. I was simply writing from my experiences working at various jobs for decades and how at the many jobs I've worked even for Roman Catholics my co-workers, managers, and bosses didn't talk about their religion or spirituality and I did not either.

The topic is about work or the workplace only. You didn't mention being outside of the workplace or being around religious and/or spiritual people in general so I didn't address that topic and when I've been outside of the workplace with people who happen to be religious and/or spiritual some do bring it up but you're not forced to listen to them, so I just get them talking about something else unless they're a friend of mine.

If you don't like people who talk openly about their religion and/or spirituality at work tell them this. Or tell them how you don't want to talk about something personal at work. Most people are not mind readers so you'll actually have to tell them this and communicate with them. Bitching about it on an internet forum does no good.

I've met heterosexual Christians, muslims, Jews, Pagans/Wiccans, Buddhists, and people of other religions and spiritualities who are fine with LGBT people and who don't hate us.


Thanx for this very well-expressed post DD! Interesting how someone who is spiritual & believes in a deity can be branded & dismissed as a bigot or religious fanatic when often it's the other way around.

[pepperjack]

I have no idea of what you are talking about, then again, I never have.


Welcome to Voidsville. :smilies15

[Dead Account]

I didn't start this thread to encourage infighting, but rather to gather everyones experience on tha matter. Can we keep it civil?

[ExSailor]

I didn't start this thread to encourage infighting, but rather to gather everyones experience on tha matter. Can we keep it civil? Riiiiiiight that was not your goal at all. :rolleyes: You just wrote blanket statements about people who happen to be religious and how we all hate gay and bi people. I am Hindu by conversion and by my own choice, and I've done more for bisexual and gay rights than you ever will.

[gladius]

Riiiiiiight that was not your goal at all. :rolleyes: You just wrote blanket statements about people who happen to be religious and how we all hate gay and bi people. I am Hindu by conversion and by my own choice, and I've done more for bisexual and gay rights than you ever will.

What Sailor said. And now, Doogie, that you state what your intents were with this thread, I have this to say. I have never sat amongst coworkers, or any group for that matter, and had a session of slamming people due to their sexual proclivities. Frankly, I think you made the whole thing up just so you could express your own personal brand of bigotry.

[ExSailor]

What I see here is a failure of BiCurious Doogie to actually come out as bisexual or speak up when he supposedly hears something against bi and gay people. He excuses bigotry and then becomes a bigot towards people who are religious or who are spiritual like me.

[Dead Account]

Meh- childish banter. Frankly, I don't care what you think. The intent was as stated, don't read into it. I was simply wondering what experiences others had and how they dealt with it. Don't like it? Up yours.

BTW- I'm also an ex-sailor and work with a shop full of ex- sailors who I've heard this stuff repeatedly from, a few go to the same church. And never once did I say I didn't speak up, I did and was met with blank stares.

[darkeyes]

It's a difficult thing, Doogie... people talk about all kinds of things at work and it often gets heated... bigotry of all kinds is often thrown up, including, no matter what some say, the bigotry of some supposedly religious people towards the lgbt and the principle of same sex marriage. Not all religious people, Christian or otherwise are bigoted, and many support the lgbt and even are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgendered themselves.. religious teaching and principle often imposes great conflict in such people, and it is undoubtedly true that much religious scripture is where the bigotry arises, and from human interpretation of it,. even translation of it from its original language. Are all of those who believe in the literal meaning of scriptures bigoted? Not all, because it is their belief in the word of their "God" or whatever translation or interpretation is put on to that word, yet all the same it is easily argued that it is bigotry all the same since the perpetuation of a wrong even from the so called "word of God" is still the perpetuation of a wrong. We are but human beings and subjective about our view of the world however objective we try to be. It is possible to be spiritual and yet preach and practice bigotry because of what is contained in the teachings of any religion, the interpretation or translation of any religion, belief or scripture....

U stand ur ground babes... some of those on this site, like many in the wider world who rabbit on about their religion and their piety, and have a go at u and others because of ur experience and view, and who deny that some religious people.. so called or actual.. are often as intolerant and bigoted as any,religious of otherwise, who would deny us our rights as human beings in their own way. We have seen on this site just this year alone just how spiritual and how tolerant some of them are... and they deflect accusation of bigotry and intolerance from them and their kind by turning it on to others... we have seen it all before, and we will see it again.

[gladius]

Look up the word bigot, and you'll find that you two can not hide from it.

[Dead Account]

Gladius- I already know what that word means. I live in a world that's full of it. All this BS about "pick a side and stay with it" permeates this world and infects it with intolerance. I am a spiritual being in recovery, I just have a difficult time dealing with the literal and figurative blindness of some people, and like it or not, that jades their view towards some people. For instance- I am taking shit at work from these same people (and I've overheard it, it not my imagination) that because I have a white stripe at the base of my neck hairline courtesy of another disorder I can't help having- Alopecia- that I am gay. I've never let it get to me, but it does without a doubt affect how people treat me. So I confront this daily. Don't like what I post, don't read it and be on your merry way.

[gladius]

One thing for sure, BCD, one does not make their point by slinging slurs on an entire faith due to the ills of a few morons. As for the white line at the hairline, and it equating to being gay, I have to wonder if you work with extreme nutjobs.

[Dead Account]

Welp, Gladius, I'm sorry you can't seem to read. I never "slandered and entire faith"- in fact, I never slandered anybody. I described a distaste for a few individuals repeated opinions about a group. I suppose though, since they call themselves Christians that this is now sudden acceptable to you. And I also find it incredibly hard to believe that you've never worked around people who passed judgement on people because of how they look. I almost always have. Do you suppose that nobody in the entire world flings opinions around about people they see and don't know and that's why we live in a peaceful never never land world where everyone gets along and there's no random violence and its filled with brotherly/sisterly love? You've never pondered these things? I have. Pay attention to all the news about bullying and workplace violence, yet noone at work forms opinions and insults members of another group, at all, ever? BS. I wish I cod shake and wake up the world, but I can't.

[void()]

I understand, I think, what the OP is saying.

It seems everyone has a mentality that Christians can do no wrong. And folks can get a free pass to do whatever if they are labeled Christians.

I agree that such a view is bull dung. And gladius seems to be saying that anyone whom feels that Christians do not merit a free pass are bigots. Wow, talk about a pile of dung.

[Dead Account]

Thanks, Void. That's exactly what this is about. Folks thinking that because they're Christian that its a license to be intolerant. And not only that, the general intolerance and lack if love for fellow human beings in general. Suppose a gay persons house caught on fire, would they help them or just call it Gods will? (Not saying they'd do that, but there's plenty of others that would, Westboro for example). It's the sick state of our world.

[darkeyes]

In this country, 2/3-3/4 of the population support the lgbt in its struggle for same sex marriage and equality in society with heterosexuals. Something like half the population claims to be Christian in one way or t'other.. by my reckoning that tells me that huge numbers of Christians understand and accept our struggle as right and just, often in the face of fierce opposition to the Church to which they belong. In the UK, there can be no progress towards equal rights for the lgbt without Christians.

No group of people is exempt from criticism.. not Christians or any denomination within the Christian Church, not Islamics, Hindu, Buddhist... or ne other group of religious people, nor are agnostics or atheists. All groups have some bigots among their number,and many of those bigots h8 the lgbt and oppose out of bigotry, our right to be and our right to marry the person of our choice irreslective of gender... just as all groups have many who are not by any stretch of the imagination bigoted.. not even many of those who oppse same sex marriage or homosexuality are necessarily bigoted since ther attitude is shaped by their belief and the teachings they have received.. the fault is in the teaching and it is there that the origin of the bigotry such as it is can be found.....

I have always said "Man created God in his own image".. and it has much truth in my opinion. It was ancient man who wrote the scriptures of the various religions and that is a belief I hold.. it was their prejudice and bigotry, and their struggle for power and the retention of power centuries and millenia ago which originated what religions teach people, and more modern man's wish to retain that power..no God was involved...that is my belief.... I dont insist anyone believes or accepts any of it.. but I will argue it as is my right, just as it is the right of Christians, Moslems or any other religious group or sub group to argue their position.. and I will defend them that right.

Many religious people of all religions do tell us what we must believe.. should is one thing.. must is another.. just as some agnostic and more particularly atheists do.. many, not all of any group are intolerant of the belief of others and would if they could remove other's right to have a different belief or even any belief save their own....most in Western society are not so dogmatic and intolerant.. but many are and to deny it does our societies and ourselves a great disservice. The right to debate and argue is enshrined in western philosophy and thought... it is fundamental to our liberty and freedom, and even if we hate what another says, and try and extinguish by argument and debate and by the legal and constitutional means at our disposal the reality of their view, this does not mean we are bigoted, simply that our view has if we are successful, for the moment at least, prevailed.

No view is everlasting and unchanging.. no religion is above the law of the land and neither should it be in any secular society. None is perfect, and none free of criticism.. no institution or individual is free of criticism or has the right to be free of it. All man made things are flawed... religion is no different. Religious people may argue that religion is not man made.. but how it is practiced and how it has evolved certainly is. Many things Christians for example believed not so long ago and even much farther back are no longer accepted within that faith.. They changed because people within and without those faiths argued and debated as they always will, and religions, like the state or like individuals will and do change with the passing of time.

Doogie talks of some so called Christians.. not all.. by any manner of means. If he talked of all Christians and tarred them all with the same brush then maybe there was a case to answer for his bigotry. Glad an others read things in Doogie's posts which do not exist. They have done this either because they read selectiveley or because they have their own purpose.. I leave it to members to decide.


Look up the word bigot, and you'll find that you two can not hide from it.

And for your information Glad, I don't need to look up the definition of the word "bigot" either... you do however..but no one can hide from bigotry.. it is around us everywhere.. also maybe study a little comprehension of ur own language, Try reading what the guy says and not what u wish him to have said. Far be it for me to accuse u of deliberately and selectively bending what Doogie said, but what I can say, when anyone's words are purposely twisted out of kilter and people purposely misrepresent what another has said, that is a classic pointer to a bigot.

[silberwolf1960]

So glad I'm a Pagan.

[darkeyes]

So glad I'm a Pagan.
..and don't think Pagans are exempt from bigotry either babes.. they have their fair share...;)

[pepperjack]

Yup....:shades: No one is exempt from bigotry: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2012/11/13/Tyranny-of-Cool

[darkeyes]

Who said no one is exempt from bigotry, Pepper?

[pepperjack]

Who said no one is exempt from bigotry, Pepper?

You certainly implied it in post #49 & considering human nature....it's true.

[darkeyes]

I implied no such thing, Pepper..

[darkeyes]

On the other hand, doogie.. and I know this isn't about at work but it sure as hell had its consequences at work, but often the boot is on the other foot... this guy's employer had brass fucking neck...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20357131 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20357131)..

..we have freedom of speech or we don't, and anyone who is on Facebook or Twitter or any other such tosh had better realise it.. don't know whether the guy is a bigot or not in the classic sense, but the social media can be a risky business with state and employers and other institutions showing just how much they value the right's of individuals to speak freely... well done the courts.. whether or not it will do the guy any good in the long term his little victory remains to be seen, but I suspect not much. There are far too many court cases involving employers, state and individuals arising from Facebook and Twitter and the like.. and individuals don't always win them against the monoliths they have upset...and they are increasing as both state and increasing numbers of companies scan Facebook and Twitter with specialist "spies" and even office stooges we believe to be friends to make sure we stay in line and don't say or do owt 2 upset them... and when we do often with the most innocuous comment.. expect the worst.. so I suggest peeps say nowt and avoid both Facebook and Twitter and such insidious dross like the plague...the web isn't as safe or anonymous as we think... and sites like Facebook and Twitter are less safe and anything but anonymous than most.