Bi and The "Real L Word"

[djones]

Interesting comments from a "cast member" of the television programme "The Real L Word" : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/02/the-real-l-word-romi-klinger-bisexuality-_n_1850158.html?utm_hp_ref=gay-voices

[tenni]

Thanks djones for the article connection.

I found this comment by her as very interesting.

"On the criticism she's received for her bisexuality, Klinger says, "We're asking other people to give us equality and to give us rights and to not judge us because they don't understand us...but yet within our own community, we're looking at our friends and judging them for who they are.""

I've been thinking about the wide range that we fall under the bisexual umbrella. Sometimes I think that it may be better if it can be figured out what groups seem to fall under the bisexual umbrella. All that we know is that we are all attracted to both genders. Some of us act on those attractions while others do not. We do seem to judge each other on this site imo. Some of us are very accepting on the surface of others. I'm not sure that it is necessary for us to accept each other but we do judge those that are different from us.

[NakedInSeattle]

Yep. The gay and lesbian worlds have a problem with us all right. They are afraid the B in LGBT is getting bigger and better and will some day be larger and as accepted as the L and the G. We're cumming on, right guys and gals? Keep the faith.

[CelticBerserker]

Actually NakedInSeattle sociologists and sexologists have discovered that bisexuals of both genders outnumber gay men, lesbian women, and even Trans/intersex people.

Can you back up this claim with any evidence?

[tenni]

It is true Seatle according to the San Francisco study on Bisexual Invisibility in 2011. More so the report indicated that there was insufficient support in the San Francisco LGBT organizations for bisexuals despite the numbers indicating that bisexuals outnumber all GLT in the GLBT group. Mind you some bisexuals are not being counted and hiding but other studies found methods of counting these bisexuals.
Bisexual Invisibility: (http://www.sf-hrc.org/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=989) www.sf-hrc.org/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=989 (http://www.sf-hrc.org/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=989)

However, that is not what the actress said.

We should focus on what she said and not the side topic that drugstore is introducing.

It is the bisexuals discriminating against and judging sub groups of bisexuals in her opinion that prevents us from being more pro active.
ie accusing groups of bisexuals as spreading disease. Moral judgment of other bisexual sex practices and lifestyles and so on.

[djones]

Can you back up this claim with any evidence?


There are numerous studies that back up this claim. Here are a few links :

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/census-lgbt-demographics-studies/how-many-people-are-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender/

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/study-shows-how-many-americans-are-gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgender/news/2011/04/07/18551

The big issue with Biphobia and Bi-prejudice in the "LGBT" world is that the L and the G may be the minority in number, but have the majority of political control within LGBT organizations. The "B" gets tacked on to their groups because, frankly, they need our numbers. One reason I resent being grouped in to the "LGBT" category. It often is not a community that welcomes or accepts us - why should I let them represent me simply because my sexuality starts with the letter B !?!

[CelticBerserker]

There are numerous studies that back up this claim. Here are a few links :

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/census-lgbt-demographics-studies/how-many-people-are-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender/

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/study-shows-how-many-americans-are-gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgender/news/2011/04/07/18551

The big issue with Biphobia and Bi-prejudice in the "LGBT" world is that the L and the G may be the minority in number, but have the majority of political control within LGBT organizations. The "B" gets tacked on to their groups because, frankly, they need our numbers. One reason I resent being grouped in to the "LGBT" category. It often is not a community that welcomes or accepts us - why should I let them represent me simply because my sexuality starts with the letter B !?!

Fair enough, just seemed rather dubious to me. As for your question, I don't think anyone should let anyone speak for them.

[bifemme]

It is true Seatle according to the San Francisco study on Bisexual Invisibility in 2011. More so the report indicated that there was insufficient support in the San Francisco LGBT organizations for bisexuals despite the numbers indicating that bisexuals outnumber all GLT in the GLBT group. Mind you some bisexuals are not being counted and hiding but other studies found methods of counting these bisexuals.
Bisexual Invisibility: (http://www.sf-hrc.org/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=989) www.sf-hrc.org/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=989 (http://www.sf-hrc.org/modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=989)

However, that is not what the actress said.

We should focus on what she said and not the side topic that drugstore is introducing.

It is the bisexuals discriminating against and judging sub groups of bisexuals in her opinion that prevents us from being more pro active.
ie accusing groups of bisexuals as spreading disease. Moral judgment of other bisexual sex practices and lifestyles and so on.



Actually, she said way more than that, her main argument is bi-phobia. So I think other posters are very much spot on in their posts and are not derailing.



Back to the topic at hand. I've watched the show, seen the comments on youtube; someone posted the show on there, however, it's no longer available due to copyrights. And I can tell you, by the comments, that bi-phobia is very much prevalent in the lesbian community. The commentators called her all sorts of names, saying that it was sad, she's only using that man to have a baby, she couldn't make up her mind, gay for pay, etc etc

[tenni]

You are right bifemme. I re read it. That is the part of the article that I found the most significant. You see other parts. I think that the judgment of bisexuals by other bisexuals is something that we can do and fights biphobia(internalized and accusatory of other bis) just as much as fighting biphobia from outside the bi sexual orientation group. You see biphobia by lesbians as more significant. I guess both are not good...lol

I do support djones belief that the LGBT organizations do bisexuals little good. I like the statement that I read a week ago by a bi activist when he stated that neither the hetero or G&L are going to "fix" things for bisexuals.(paraphrased a bit) We need to do it ourselves and that includes internalized biphobia between bisexuals.

[darkeyes]

Not so long ago, in Newcastle, my partner, best friend and her partner and I sat in a pub chatting to 2 girls who were bisexual and out for good night. They were out hoping to get laid and just seeing what comes.. guy, girl didn't matter to them if they fancied them.. fine.. Not something I could object to and neither did Kate or my friends.. the convo turned to sexuality itself and it is there that they became a little heavy... one lesbian (me) and 3 bi girls who made up 2 couples? That didn't make sense to them.. since we were in 2 stable relationships surely we were lesbian.. all of us? We were surely 2 lesbian couples. Which is true in the sense that we live in monogamous lesbian relationships. But according to them Kate and my friends had chosen to be lesbian because of our lifestyles and any who so chose could not describe themselves as being bisexual. They were younger than us, and so positive in the rightness of what they were saying and when I pulled them up with the question "I assume that u intend to settle down with a guy?" Both answered in the affirmative... then said I "Then when u get hitched and maybe have babbas.. then u will have turned heterosexual?" No said they in unison and one said "It doesn't work like that. Just because u settle down with a guy doesn't mean ur sexuality changes, but a guy is the natural order isn't it. We will just stop being bi and chasing girls." The convo was much more convoluted than that but that's the gist of it...

Not really a point to me relating this little exchange. but it is an illustration that while many gays and lesbians think bisexual women at least are playing at it, and it is true many do... although by no means all... it is not only they who do ur cause a disservice by the way they feel and how they intend to be and don't understand sexuality and its complexities and realities..

[djones]

Much of what you are saying brings to mind the actress Cynthia Nixon's slight controversy from earlier in the year about the "Bi by birth, hetero or homo by relationship/marriage" conundrum. I know this was covered in earlier forum posts, and may seem to go a little off topic, but it brings up one of the points as to why the G and L often have a dislike for us - we can appear to the world as though sexuality is a choice. That appearance negates the predominant argument - born this way - from the LGBT community for acceptance to the hetero world. Though the appearance of choice and the reality are quite different, many L and G would rather we not be visible and possibly muddy their stance. Better to slag us off than to include us (except they still need our numbers, money, and support !).

For a refresher, here is a link to an abbreviated version of the Cynthia Nixon story : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/30/cynthia-nixon-gay-choice-bisexual-_n_1242393.html