compartmentalizing bisexuality.

[DiamondDog]

I read in another thread how JrzGuy/Fed, wrote about compartmentalizing bisexuality.

I think that this is a common thing, because our society is so into putting things into the categories of "gay" or "straight", or even "man" or "woman"; but that's for another topic.

I know that I have compartmentalized my sexuality before and I try not to do it because I know men that do compartmentalize it. They do it so much that they deny that they even aren't heterosexual when it's rather obvious that they're in the closet. Some of them wind up doing fucked up stuff. The times that I have compartmentalized it are when I knew that I'd get beat up if I told people the truth about myself.

A bi friend and I were talking about how we get lots of sexual ambiguity from others. I've been told that I'm very masculine or "straight acting" and lots of people assume that I'm 100% heterosexual and have never had any sex with men or even thought about it, and they'd be pretty shocked to know that I have done both.

When I first heard that term "straight acting" I thought WTF does "straight acting" mean? I have had sex/fallen in love with women but I've also had sex/fallen in love with men so I don't see what's so "straight" about having sex/falling in love with men? I guess this would make me "very bi" or so I've seen people describe themselves?

For example I was out with friends at a club a few weeks ago and I saw a bear couple that I had met once before and the one husband asked me if I had a sudden realization that I'm gay since when we'd met before at a party he'd thought that I'm straight, and there I was at a club during LGBT night. I told him how I'm bi and that I'm used to the ambiguity. I know that this man's husband knows I'm not heterosexual because well, let's just say that they have an open marriage, and he is "friendly". ;)

Lots of closeted bi come out to me but they don't say that they're bi and I've come out to some of them and they get really freaked out by it and want me to deny it even in front of other people they know. Or even after I talk to them about myself they'll say to me when we're alone "...Oh but you're straight...". I don't get why they want me to deny what they deny.

If they are open minded they'll say, "oh I've been with just a few guys but I've been with A LOT MORE women!", that's just an example of how they try to appear more "straight". I'm not "out" at all. I'm "open" and I'll talk about sex positive topics and I'll either let them figure it out for themselves or I let them think what they will about me. These aren't good friends, they're people I see on a very casual basis that IMO don't deserve to know this much about me or my sexuality. It sounds mean and cruel, but I am sick and tried of playing Dr. Phil for others, especially closeted people who I'm not good friends with, that don't take advice when they ask for it.

I know that everyone is on their own path and all but these guys will get all homophobic when they're around a group and then they'll get alone with me and want sex (one guy wanted to masturbate with me on at least 3 ocassions, so the 3rd time I said "well ok, if you really want to..." but he didn't do anything and made up an excuse about not having any lube), or they'll admit that they're bi and have lots of issues with it. Usually they'll get all friendly like that after we've had a few drinks. I have had sex before while drunk and while I did it safe I don't like to do it. I do get flirty/touchy feely, and horny when I drink but I don't blame that on being drunk, I don't base my sexuality around alcohol/being in a state of drunkeness, and if I get drunk I try not to have sex even if I'm REALLY horny and in Dennis Hopper mode. ;)

I talked a bit about this with my mom and she said how these guys would probably flip out if I had sex with them or be full of shame/guilt afterwards. A lot of them don't even consider mutual masturbation or oral sex to be sex acts. They think that you need to penetrate a lower orifice (such as the anus or a vagina with a penis) in order for it to be sex but I think that they are just taking their definition of what "sex" is based on Heteronormative definitions of it. Some probably would go so far to say that "sex with a man isn't REALLY sex..."

Any thoughts on this?

[twodelta]

I read in another thread how JrzGuy/Fed, wrote about compartmentalizing bisexuality.

Lots of closeted bi come out to me but they don't say that they're bi and I've come out to some of them and they get really freaked out by it and want me to deny it even in front of other people they know. Or even after I talk to them about myself they'll say to me when we're alone "...Oh but you're straight...". I don't get why they want me to deny what they deny.



Any thoughts on this?

Ever hear the term "misery loves company"?

[Avocado]

I read in another thread how JrzGuy/Fed, wrote about compartmentalizing bisexuality.

I think that this is a common thing, because our society is so into putting things into the categories of "gay" or "straight", or even "man" or "woman"; but that's for another topic.

I know that I have compartmentalized my sexuality before and I try not to do it because I know men that do compartmentalize it. They do it so much that they deny that they even aren't heterosexual when it's rather obvious that they're in the closet. Some of them wind up doing fucked up stuff. The times that I have compartmentalized it are when I knew that I'd get beat up if I told people the truth about myself.

A bi friend and I were talking about how we get lots of sexual ambiguity from others. I've been told that I'm very masculine or "straight acting" and lots of people assume that I'm 100% heterosexual and have never had any sex with men or even thought about it, and they'd be pretty shocked to know that I have done both.

When I first heard that term "straight acting" I thought WTF does "straight acting" mean? I have had sex/fallen in love with women but I've also had sex/fallen in love with men so I don't see what's so "straight" about having sex/falling in love with men? I guess this would make me "very bi" or so I've seen people describe themselves?

For example I was out with friends at a club a few weeks ago and I saw a bear couple that I had met once before and the one husband asked me if I had a sudden realization that I'm gay since when we'd met before at a party he'd thought that I'm straight, and there I was at a club during LGBT night. I told him how I'm bi and that I'm used to the ambiguity. I know that this man's husband knows I'm not heterosexual because well, let's just say that they have an open marriage, and he is "friendly". ;)

Lots of closeted bi come out to me but they don't say that they're bi and I've come out to some of them and they get really freaked out by it and want me to deny it even in front of other people they know. Or even after I talk to them about myself they'll say to me when we're alone "...Oh but you're straight...". I don't get why they want me to deny what they deny.

If they are open minded they'll say, "oh I've been with just a few guys but I've been with A LOT MORE women!", that's just an example of how they try to appear more "straight". I'm not "out" at all. I'm "open" and I'll talk about sex positive topics and I'll either let them figure it out for themselves or I let them think what they will about me. These aren't good friends, they're people I see on a very casual basis that IMO don't deserve to know this much about me or my sexuality. It sounds mean and cruel, but I am sick and tried of playing Dr. Phil for others, especially closeted people who I'm not good friends with, that don't take advice when they ask for it.

I know that everyone is on their own path and all but these guys will get all homophobic when they're around a group and then they'll get alone with me and want sex (one guy wanted to masturbate with me on at least 3 ocassions, so the 3rd time I said "well ok, if you really want to..." but he didn't do anything and made up an excuse about not having any lube), or they'll admit that they're bi and have lots of issues with it. Usually they'll get all friendly like that after we've had a few drinks. I have had sex before while drunk and while I did it safe I don't like to do it. I do get flirty/touchy feely, and horny when I drink but I don't blame that on being drunk, I don't base my sexuality around alcohol/being in a state of drunkeness, and if I get drunk I try not to have sex even if I'm REALLY horny and in Dennis Hopper mode. ;)

I talked a bit about this with my mom and she said how these guys would probably flip out if I had sex with them or be full of shame/guilt afterwards. A lot of them don't even consider mutual masturbation or oral sex to be sex acts. They think that you need to penetrate a lower orifice (such as the anus or a vagina with a penis) in order for it to be sex but I think that they are just taking their definition of what "sex" is based on Heteronormative definitions of it. Some probably would go so far to say that "sex with a man isn't REALLY sex..."

Any thoughts on this?


Thank you so much for that post, I now realise why you said in that other post what you did to a tee. I'm sorry to hear you've even had problems with fellow bi's when it comes to acknowledging your identity. I think you've already read what my sig links to, about my no good friend who I thought might have been bi. He'd say alot of homophobic stuff at times aswell, which doesn't add up with him hinting he may be bi. I do have a lot of frustration that people do stuff with members of the same sex and claim to be straight. Lots of women, but also men aswell, such as Ceasar on Big Brother. Some people say if they didn't get turned on they must be straight. Well, they didn't mind doing it, and what if someone became close to someone? With people having said to you what they have, I now realise how it can (not saying it is or isn't) be a big thing for you to class sexual acts as sexual acts.

I feel that the "I'm straight, honest" lot want it both ways. I see them as freeloaders who want to let the rest of us suffer, but benefit from what some of us (sadly not myself at the time of writing) have fought and struggled for. It also means they can live free of the stigma attached to being bi when it comes to relationships, especially monoganous relationships.

I don't feel I'm being a hypocrite since there's more of a stigma attached to being bi than being gay, the most classic example being gays can't help but we have a choice and should no better. 1stly we don't choose our sexuality and 2ndly why should we be ashamed even if we could.

[Long Duck Dong]

the arguement about being straight acting yadda yadda has amused the hell outta me

i have a friend that is gay and a flatmate that is gay ( flatmate means we share a house as friends and expense sharers )...both are feminine... one is normally like that.... the other is gay and feminine acting tho he is the top in a relationship

both are out gays and it makes me laugh that the naturally feminine one is seen as more straight than the one that have developed feminine mannerisms..lol.... then they look at me and say that i am straight acting tho i am 99% of the time... the bottom....and my simple reaction is to say... i am not straight acting... people percieve me as straight and masculine.... but i can prance and scream with the best of the queens

what really makes me laugh is the term * straight acting *.... do straight people act straight??? .... mmm do gay people act gay.... is there such a thing as gay acting.... and why is hell do people think that in order to be gay you have to be feminine ????

in todays world we can all be straight acting if we wanted... but who wants to join the ranks of the closeted bi / gay people that are trying to be something they aren't.... and who wants to stand with the * straight acting * crowd that scream out they are hetrosexual and proud while hold another males ass

[JohnnyV]

Diamond Dog,

You're one of my favorite people to talk to; always with such good things to think about.

I think I want to poke you a little about the way you're thinking about these things though.... Why do you care what people call themselves? If there are people who say they're straight even though they have sex with the same sex, then I say, let them be. If, as you say, they're people you barely know, then it's fair to assume that you don't know their upbringing, their past, what they went through. What if some of them were sexually abused as children? What if some of them fell in love with one man, once in the past, and had their hearts broken? What if some of them are straight but they've fallen into an addictive pattern of anonymous sex?

There are a million reasons why people will sometimes view themselves or the world in ways that unsettle you. Unless you're really there for them and they know they can trust you with everything about themselves, then I can understand why they might not just jump on your bandwagon.

When you say you're sick of being Dr. Phil, and you don't like giving advice to people who don't follow your advice, I hear echoes of things I heard from gay people around me, back in my early 20s, when I tried to identify myself as strictly gay. In the end, my desire for women won out and I went bi. But part of my transition also came about because I didn't like that hard-nosed, Darwinist, survival-of-the-fittest climate so common in the gay community. And just as you're saying that you dislike people who won't come out and say that they aren't straight, I should tell you, 16 years ago, in the gay commmunity where I lived, people would attack you for not coming out and saying that you're gay.

If you're masculine in appearance, and you're so open at a relatively early age, AND you can talk to your mother about these things, I am betting that you have lived an easier life than many people who will cross your path in the queer world. You've probably never been made fun of, or kicked out of the house because you're gay, or thrown into a closet and told to repent for your sins before the devil comes and gets you -- all those things have happened to people in real life. In the gay world, I often found people expecting everyone to just "suck up and deal" and "enjoy the party." The result of not being able to deal honestly with all the reasons one has for being at odds with one's sexuality, is often very negative. Some people, as you have noticed, say fuck you to the gay community and become homophobic; they figure they never got any support from party-going happy-go-lucky well-adjusted people like you, so they'll condemn the whole lot of you, joining an ex-gay ministry and voting Republican. The philosophy is, hold back the demons so they don't overpower me, especially since the gays themselves refuse to shield me from my demons.... Other people turn to drugs and anesthetize themselves by having tons of sex or falling into abusive co-dependent relationships with people who exploit their emotional weakness.

In sum, I think you've got to be patient and flexible with people. Everyone's got different baggage. Sex is always a mined battlefield, my friend. It makes us vulnerable, it exposes our madness, it can weaken us just as often as it makes us stronger. You can't expect people to leap up, fully suited in their queer armor, ready to be a soldier in the army of anti-heteronormative troopers.... Cut them some slack.

Thanks for the thread, it was very interesting to read.

Luv,
J

[Rhuth]

Wow. I am fluent in six languages, and I am having trouble understanding a word you guys are saying. I am really having trouble learning all these compartmentalized labels!

When I first discovered I could label myself as bisexual, I ran out and answered an ad in bisexual.org. The couple had an entire web page devoted to the “rules” of bisexuality and polyamory – a term I had not heard before then. Every time I spoke with them they had more rules and restrictions to indoctrinate me with. With all the rules they had about bisexuality and polyamory, they could only practice a monogamous heterosexual relationship with each other!

I am embarrassed to ask this, but I just can’t seem to figure it out. What does it mean if you are a bear? Does “top” and “bottom” only refer to BDSM? Is there some sort of Wikipedia link that lists all the different labels we use?

And whoever coined the phrase “lipstick lesbian” has obviously never seen the full contents of a well-equipped makeup bag!

/Rhuth

[wildangel]

Wow. I tried so hard to reply to this post, but I just couldn't seem to follow it either. But I fall in the same boat as Rhuth. I define myself as bi and poly, but I don't try to fall into the molds that LGBT society form for us. There are guidelines to follow for both in order to catergorize yourself as either, but there shouldn't be any set and defined rules.

Just my :2cents:

[leizy]

Rhuth - I'm answering your questions, only because I'm posting after you did, not b/c I'm any kind of expert. A "bear" is an older (usually), bigger (usually) fuzzy guy. Some guys like bears, some prefer other body types (I'm more into the Johny Depp type). Tops/bottoms, not just BDSM, but refers (kindof) to anal sex, as in who does the "pitching" and who does the "catching." Some folks are "versatile" (I'm totally there...) and like to "play both ends of the field," to continue the baseball metaphor.

In terms of the general thread - I worry about my compartmentalization of my bisexuality, and general sexuality in my life. I'm actually more out than I've ever been, but am exec of a healthcare agency that works with kids. Now, if you're gonna be gay, it's the field to do it in, everybody it seems is gay. However, as exec, (and as a guy in a field dominated by women) I have to be extremely careful to keep my sexuality out of the workplace, for fear of repercussions. Also, I have friends that I can talk to about my sexuality, but then I have other friends where it NEVER comes up. My wife has expressed concern, that I cmpartmentalize my sexuality to such confined areas, that sometimes when I havethe opportunity, I kindof cut loose...

Anyway - good thread.
david

[DÆMØN]

Everyone's got different baggage.


Wow. I am fluent in six languages, and I am having trouble understanding a word you guys are saying. I am really having trouble learning all these compartmentalized labels! WARNING, Steep learning Curve Ahead, Look for an Alternate Sexual Lexicon/Glossary online and freshen up your "label" knowledge. http://www.gaymart.com/6fun/slang.html

[Avocado]

WARNING, Steep learning Curve Ahead, Look for an Alternate Sexual Lexicon/Glossary online and freshen up your "label" knowledge. http://www.gaymart.com/6fun/slang.html

Cheers for that link, I had something to say about the definition of queer in the feedback form :bipride: