Obama Care- perhaps random and misplaced inquiry

[blugirl789]

Hello all. I've been hearing a lot about Obama care and have heard good things and bad depending on the network producing the news. And so I ask you for your own personal experiences and/or opinions pertaining to this topic.

Thanks for your input.
Blu

[jarhead]

It will not only bankrupt the country in its funding but it will destroy the finest medical institutions in the world.

[falcondfw]

Blu,

Personally, I don't like it.

1. I don't like the government thinking they can FORCE me to buy anything. Where is that provision in our Constitution? The tenth Amendment to the Constitution states :

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

This means that those specific powers not explicitly given to the Federal Government are reserved for the states or the people. There is no Constitutional provision for the Federal Government to FORCE people to buy a product from a private company. If they could, they could say all Americans must by a brand new car every year. Or all Americans must buy a GM car. If the government had the power to make us buy a product from a private company, what is to stop either of those two scenarios I mentioned?

2. I don't like the 21, yes, I said 21, new taxes in Obamacare. The government steals enough of my money as it is. Stealing is taking something from them against their will. Making us pay taxes at the rate we pay is stealing. If the government used the money wisely and efficiently and not for things like grants to companies like Solyndra and Fisker, and if they would live within their means and shrink the bloated bureaucracies, we could greatly lower the tax rates for everyone.

3. I don't like the "rob Peter to pay Paul" mentality. Cutting 500 billion from medicare to pay for programs in Obamacare is just plain stupid.

4. I don't like the way the bill was ramrodded down our throats, when polls clearly show the majority of Americans do not like Obamacare and the illegal and unprecedented ways the President and his cronies in Congress used to pass the bill. Something this important should be fully documented, commented on by the public (maybe at a government web site specifically for the purpose), debated in town hall meetings, and then either compromised on, agreed to, or thrown out, according to the will of the majority.

5. I don't like the way the cost projections for Obamacare keep skyrocketing. Starting out before the bill was passed at 900 billion over 10 years. The estimate that came out July 4 weekend raised the estimate to 2.6 trillion over 10 years. We can't afford that when we already borrow 40+ cents of every dollar we spend just to keep the government running. Someone has to eventually pay the bill for Obamacare and our debt or we are all in very serious trouble.

There are many other reasons I dislike this bill, but that should do for now. Incidentally, if you want to see the actual text of the bill as passed, it is bill number HR3962, all 1990 pages of it.

[Long Duck Dong]

I have avoided stepping into the debate as I do not know enuf about obamacare and nor do I live in the us.......lol

in NZ tho, our health / medical system, is run as a profit making system.....and the trouble with that, its a taxpayer funded system.....
basically what happens is the system is given X amount of dollars and told not to go over budget, so the first thing to be cut, is services, operations and patient after care and help.... essentially the very services we pay for as taxpayers, are the services we may not get access to .....

its a case of the profit aspect is a BS word for * do not spend all the limited funds that we give you, on the people that need the medical care, just learn to play god *

I hope that the US doesn't end up in the same mess as NZ and other countries have, cos there is no longer enuf money to fund a essential service

[blugirl789]

Thank you all for your feedback. I feel more informed and will probably take a look at the bill myself. I'll be skimming thru it since it is 1990 pages long. lol. I read parts of the patriot act when that was hugely popular as well. I appreciate Long sharing his country's story. We can always learn from other countries, communities, people, and should. Thank you all again.

Blu

[12voltman59]

Honestly---I do like the concept that we have to do something about providing health care in the US beyond what we have done--but like most people--I have never read one word of the legislation or even seen a true and trustworthy break down of "Obamacare" so I don't have enough objective evidence one way or the other to make my mind up about the true details of the plan.

I do know that many of the categorizations of it by our media, both "liberal" and conservative are just plain wrong and it pisses me off that so much BS is spun about this plan.

Here are those things:

It is something when it comes to the mandate part that the right so objects to---the mandate was something that came from not on the left but from the right--namely from the Heritage Foundation--one of the top CONSERVATIVE "think tank" type of organizations---and this was something long argued by many on the conservative side that would the mandate "would make the freeloaders pay their fair share!"--but when this came from the Democrats in this legislation---it was suddenly a BAD, BAD THING!!

Another falsehood about "Obamacare"---Obama really didn't have many fingerprints on the thing---he basically stood off at a distance when this thing was drafted in Congress letting the leadership of the DEMOCRATIC political party come up with it--so it would be more appropriately, if one is going to use a coded name like "Obamacare"--it should be more accurately described as "REIDPELOSI Care" for the respective leaders for that party in the US Senate and House.

Another falsehood about the plan---even though the government mandates it and such--the government is not the provider of the insurance you get----the insurance is provided by private, for profit insurance companies.

One last falsehood about it---that with "Obamacare"---you are supposedly limited in your options as to what doctors, hospitals you use etc--that is total BS since this while its true that as purchasers of insurance---our options as to what doctors we see, which hospitals you can use and things of this sort are set and limited by the particular insurance plan you have and based upon which of the "preferred provider networks" that your plan is hooked up with in your area and is also related to across the country.

Its not that you cannot go see a doctor outside your network or go get a procedure done at an "out of network hospital"---you can---its just that at first--you won't have any co-pay and might be liable for the full bill right off the spot with such a doctor or hospital---or if they accept your card ---your insurance company may or may not pay for any or all of the bill--at least according to the degree they pay for care when you use when using the "in network preferred providers"--so with the insurance plans we have--we don't really have any true "freedom" unless of course--we are luckily wealthy enough to pay the bill on a pay as you go basis and it doesn't matter if you run up a half million dollar bill or not.

It is certainly the case that the private providers have an long list of medical procedures that they simply will not cover, no matter how hard it is tried to fight them in many cases---denial of such treatment does lead to many deaths each year or at best---means that untold numbers live on with diminished lives until they finally do die.

Now---there are new private networks that doctors and others have created for the very wealthy---with big time premiums--that allow such people true freedom so they can have "platinum" health care coverage and can afford the best doctors, procedures, private wings of the hospital, etc.

I don't begrudge those folks that--if I had that kind of money--I would have that sort of coverage myself--and have my own private "concierge" medical treatment--much like the show on USA----"Royal Pains" about a doc who sets up such a practice in the Hamptons, but it would be nice if for those of us not in the stratosphere-- that we would be able to afford decent health care and not get bankrupted even if we have insurance should some major health crisis hit us.

What I say SHOULD have happened with crafting an effective and affordable national health care plan for the US---they should have formed a "task force" of sorts made up with representatives of all aspects of health care such as the insurance companies, the drug companies, doctors, medical societies, public clinics, what have you with their task being----take a look at what is done all over the world and look to see what works best---with there being no foregone conclusions as to what is best--then once the research and investigation phase was over--with a strict time limit of say two to three years for the entire process to take place---then they would have set out to craft a program that provides the most cost effective and workable program possible---but then again-I am just dreaming again--with the way things are so polarized now and we have those on both "sides" stuck on their ideologies and pre-conceived notions about things---this didn't happen and sadly it probably never will----but this is what should have taken place or should in the future--with nothing off the table if it was cost effective and worked--there are plenty of examples out there of such plans working---I think that the German model would have been the best option---the insurance is provided by private companies---but the aspects of the medical system are controlled by the government--like caps on the cost of medications--that everyone has to undergo a free comprehensive physical each year so they can get at developing problems before they get too far along with the emphasis on preventative care--not reactive care as we have in the US with our private companies that are free to do as they will--they don't really do anything towards preventive care and only do stuff once something bad has happened---then it does cost far more to provide care.

[i_shoot_blanks]

I'm retired from the military and have thus been on a form of government controlled medical care since for most of my life. I don't like nor want a "government servant" in Washington deciding upon my medical care. That should be decided jointly by my doctor and myself, and NO ONE ELSE!!! Case in point: I am on Detrol LA for urinary incontinence caused by prostate surgery. Althuogh the medication says one capsule will work for 24 hours, my doctor, a well known, experienced and highly thought of urologist, put me on one in the morning and one in the evening. I had been taking this dosage for at least two years when suddenly the military refused to fill the prescription because the manufacturer said one per day. When I asked to speak to the person who made this decision I was told it was policy handed down from the Pentagon.
This is what obamacare would degenerate into, a beurocratic mess, run by politicians.
How many Armericans do you see going to Canada or Great Britain for medical care that they cannot get in this country.

[elian]

How many Armericans do you see going to Canada or Great Britain for medical care that they cannot get in this country.

Well, seniors WERE going by the busload to Canada to obtain inexpensive prescription drugs, I'm sure that is the only reason Medicare Part D was enacted..pharmaceutical companies couldn't have too much of THAT going on..

I was very unhappy with Bush, I couldn't understand how out of one side of his mouth he could say, "Veterans, we appreciate your service!" and then almost simultaneously sign a bill to cut VA funding...I mean nothing says, "Thanks for your service" quite like undercutting the agency providing essential medical care to millions of soldiers. Of course I have heard horror stories about the VA too but these type of errors can happen anywhere.

[blugirl789]

wow. all very informative. it's better to hear someone's own reaction to something this big versus plugging into a major television network. everybody has their own bubble, problems, insights. and so i appreciate seeing through another's perspective.

[falcondfw]

Well, seniors WERE going by the busload to Canada to obtain inexpensive prescription drugs, I'm sure that is the only reason Medicare Part D was enacted..pharmaceutical companies couldn't have too much of THAT going on..

I was very unhappy with Bush, I couldn't understand how out of one side of his mouth he could say, "Veterans, we appreciate your service!" and then almost simultaneously sign a bill to cut VA funding...I mean nothing says, "Thanks for your service" quite like undercutting the agency providing essential medical care to millions of soldiers. Of course I have heard horror stories about the VA too but these type of errors can happen anywhere.

Elian,

Where did ANYONE mention Bush on this thread?
This is about Obamacare, not Bush.
If you want to discuss what Bush did to the veteran's, start a separate thread, please.

[darkeyes]

wow. all very informative. it's better to hear someone's own reaction to something this big versus plugging into a major television network. everybody has their own bubble, problems, insights. and so i appreciate seeing through another's perspective.
Sweetheart.. interesting and informative as .com often is in the great debates of our time, I think before I made me mind up one way or t'other on this issue, I'd do a lot more reading, searching and thinking of both sides of the argument if I were you... this is not to devalue the principles and opinions of people on site, but to help u gain a broader and more accurate understanding of the issues involved..

[blugirl789]

Sweetheart.. interesting and informative as .com often is in the great debates of our time, I think before I made me mind up one way or t'other on this issue, I'd do a lot more reading, searching and thinking of both sides of the argument if I were you... this is not to devalue the principles and opinions of people on site, but to help u gain a broader and more accurate understanding of the issues involved..

Ofcourse. I've googled it, read articles, and i take it all in. I'll prob glance at the bill, going straight to the horse's mouth. I appreciate the candor presented here.