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tenni
Jul 13, 2012, 2:28 PM
The Dr Drews and Dr. Phils of the world are certified counsellors with post graduate education beyond an undergraduate degree. They belong to a governing body whether a medical psychiatric certification board or psychological certification board. It usually would take Dr. Drew about twelve years of education, training and residency before he would qualify. It would take Dr. Phil about the same amount of time. Part of this time would be spent counselling under supervision slowly developing their abilities and learn the ethics of their profession.

They have codes of conduct and ethics that are to be adhered to. They pay annual fees and are members in good standing inorder for them to refer to themselves as counsellors. Complaints of breaking the code of ethics often brings forth a review of the competence and may result in decertification where they are not legally to practice. The fact that these two individuals "practice" public media counselling has merit and question.

Others who are in the media claiming to be this or that form of counsellor should be carefully scrutinized for their practice whether given free like Dr. Drew on the radio etc. I personally find Dr. Phil to have a well researched practice with claims of long private and corporate counselling. He is still a TV personality though who needs to keep his rating up in the make money big business way. He does state to provide long term counselling support for those who become "TV clients". I have no real concern about either counsellors approach but I am uncertain as to what their Code of Conduct and Ethics indicate. I would assume that they work within this frame work but I also wonder how controversial they are with other certified professionally educated counsellors.

My sister is presently studying at a university to become a Drug and Alcohol counsellor. This is a certificate programme and she will get a diploma. It seems to take about four years to complete as the courses are run only part time with practical applications. It does not qualify her to counsell independently with her own private practice. She must work under the guidance of a PHD in psychology or MD in psychiatry. There are hundreds of "counsellors types" with various job description. For example, it is highly unlikely to be qualified certified to be a sex counsellor, drug and alcohol counsellor, marriage counsellor and so on in one practice. It is not impossible though I would guess.

Some using the counselling label have been trained as "colourists" for hair.

For examples, sometimes you may study at home and become a therapist counsellor for such diplomas as hypnotherapist. You may get a diploma in five days of classes.

http://www.nzaph.co.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=17

CODE OF ETHICS of THE NEW ZEALAND ASSOCIATION of PROFESSIONAL HYPNOTHERAPISTS INCORPORATED

1. Members are expected to conduct themselves in a responsible and professional manner at all times and abide by the Code of Ethics, Rules and Constitution of the Association. Failure to do so shall result in disciplinary action.

2. Members shall recognise an obligation toward the client at all times, and shall practice their profession to the best of their ability for the benefit of the client. The client's comfort, welfare and future health must always have priority.

3. Members shall recognise their level of competence and shall refer clients to a specialist or another member competent to deal with any presenting symptom or problem beyond their capability.

4. Members shall keep in confidence all information derived from a client, or from a colleague, regarding a client and, except where the law requires otherwise, divulge the information only with the express permission of the client, or where failure to take action would constitute a menace or danger to the client or another member of the community.

5. Members shall give due respect to fellow members of the Association at all times so as to avoid any action which may lead to a dispute or difference or controversy. Should any dispute or difference arise, members concerned shall make a determined endeavour to settle it between themselves. Should agreement not be reached they shall submit it for settlement in accordance with the rules of the Association.

6. Members shall not make any claims to secret techniques, nor offer guarantees regarding the results of any services, or exploit a client for financial gain through inferences or misrepresentation.

7. Members' premises shall be maintained in a professional, safe and hygienic manner.

8. Members shall not knowingly interfere with any on-going treatment instigated by another practitioner whilst the client is under that practitioner's care.

9. Members must ensure that advertisements and other public announcements are such as will not bring the Association into disrepute.

10. Members shall display current Practising Certificates and Code of Ethics in a prominent position in their premises within easy viewing of the client.
.................................................. .................................................. ......

You too may become a Hynotherapist

http://www.hypnotherapy.ac.nz/

1/ Certificate in Hypnotherapy-home study-Full price: $300.00
study at your own home at your own pace

2/Diploma of Hypnotherapy- 5 day course suitable for beginners or intermediate Hynoptherapists Full price: $1200.00

3/ Diploma of Advanced Hypnotherapy-5 Day Practical Course suitable for Experienced Hypnotherapists Full price: $1400.00

A recap of Modern Suggestive Hypnotherapy theory and practice (Those who are new to Hypnosis New Zealand training will receive previous Modern Suggestive Hypnotherapy course manual and all handouts.), Age Regression/Hypnoanalysis/Affect Bridge, Advanced Therapy Techniques such as: Parts, Gestalt, Reframing, etc., Sensitising Events, Anchoring, Ideomotor Signaling, Metaphor use, Conditioned Responses, Learning & Responding Styles, Abnormal Psychology, Emotional Responses/Abreactions, Hypnosis Anaesthesia and Analgesia , Anxiety, Panic & Stress, Depression, Sexual Dysfunctions & Issues, Fertility & Childbirth, Working with Children, Sleep Disorders, Obsessive Compulsive Disorders, Body Language
Plus much more to help you run a highly successful Hypnotherapy practice - including several specialist guest presenters!
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....

"I am fully certified as a hynotherapist in accordance with the NZ council of hypnotherapist criteria....
you do not need a medical license to do hynotherapy, as it is not regarded as medicine
I no longer do it in a professional capacity because I disagree with some of the rules about using hypnotherapy
assistance with a issue a person has, using hypnotherapy, is not offering a cure nor making a diagnosis.... it is like helping a person with giving up smoking

the world is full of people that want to tell others how to live, I am a person that tries to help people to live.....if that means breaking rules, I will do it.... "
.................................................. .................................................. ...........................

I'm sure most of us are careful about claims on the internet about being a counsellor. On this site, people often bring their "issues" and questions for advice. This is like peer support but without a professional counsellor who is certified working under a Code of Conduct and Code of Ethics. Most of us take such self disclosure as possibly helpful and it makes some of us feel better to hear from other bisexuals etc.

Some who have post graduate education and training in counselling would never claim to be a counsellor on the internet. If licensed in some areas that may be grounds for de certification while others find it inappropriate ethically to make snap comments and judgments under the guise of claiming to be a counsellor. Dr Drew seems more inclined to this approach on his radio show. He seems to make sense but I question the ethics of his actions.

tenni
Jul 13, 2012, 4:58 PM
http://www.drdrew.com/

Long Duck Dong
Jul 13, 2012, 9:56 PM
thank you, tenni, for proving beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you will do anything to rubbish people and try and devalue them. their opinions or drive them from the site

I am a NZ ex counselor and therapist, not american like DR drew and DR phil..... so can you get your misinformation right when you are trolling people in a attitude to flame them

Long Duck Dong
Jul 14, 2012, 12:28 AM
now..... to correct your clear misinformation for the sake of the people that will end up misinformed cos of your lack of knowledge about what you are talking about


a NZ counselor and therapist is not a NZ hypnotherapist.... they are two separate fields and there are 7 different organizations of the NZ hypnotherapist field so the info you posted, applies to that organization of hypnotherapy ONLY

it is like comparing speedway drivers to driving instructors, or practicing doctors to surgeons, so a counselor and therapist in NZ, would have to train in hypnotherapy as a separate field of work, training and certification, it is optional, not required

this is the correct link that pertains to me in regards to the hypnotherapy that I trained in and hold certs in
http://www.hypnotherapynz.co.nz/AbouttheSchool/tabid/36982/Default.aspx

this is part of what I had to study

Manual 1 Hypnosis & Behaviour Change
Manual 2 Counselling
Manual 3 Psychology & Behaviour Modification
Manual 4 Physiology & Anatomy
Manual 5 Hypnotic Inductions & Therapies
Manual 6 Clinical Practice – The Mentoring Phase of the Course – Opening a Clinical
Hypnotherapy Practice – Treaty of Waitangi


so I would like you to stop with the attempted flaming of me, the spreading of misinformation, and preferably that you learn to tell the difference between a counselor and therapist.. and a hypnotherapist, the difference between ethics and rules, two american psychs that have tv shows and a person in new zealand that trained as a counselor and therapist in non specific fields and did not do the 7 year advanced degree course for specific fields but the required training for entry into multiple fields, and did do the full requirements for full certificate in hypnotherapy as a separate field of therapy.

lets not forget the fact that I am retired as a counselor, therapist and hypnotherapist, something I am very clear about when I say EX counselor, therapist and hypnotherapist, therefore anything I may say in the forum, is a opinion based on personal experience and training, and NOT as a practicing counselor, therapist and hypnotherapist as part of the site or by drews request, nor is it said in any form of professional capacity....

darkeyes
Jul 14, 2012, 10:37 AM
O tenni.. drop it.. I was a counsellor as a trade union official and there are thousands of lay counsellors in every country.. from citizens advice to anti depression to abortion rights and there are thousands of them dealing with all sorts.. in the llgbt there are thousands of them alone.. just cos a man or woman has letters after his or her name and a qualification doesn't necessarily make his or her a better counsellor than the next person with none... mad psychiatrist and a psychologist who had more letters after their names than a certain Welsh railway station (Llanfair woteva it is.. ask Gear... he will know.).. both paid thousands and charged hundreds for a session to private clients.. thank God mine wos on NHS cos they were both a waste of space...

tenni
Jul 14, 2012, 10:58 AM
Yes darkeyes. I have also been a counsellor and a psychometrist with post graduate education and training in psychology. I do not add to my statements that I am a former retired etc. counsellor. I stopped quite short of my doctorate..and even my MA in psychology. Yet, I was counselling within a very narrow field as a psychometrist within very specific area to test the person with. If I was qualified in B, I did not do X, Y and Z therapy applying them at will without supervision.

The difference is between the governing body licensing a person to do X. As a lay counsellor for a trade union, you counselled the person based upon what you had been trained to do. You were not on television, radio or internet giving out generalized solutions to resolve personal stressful scenarios and throwing your "title" around. If in the LGBT there are counsellors and they are lay, their qualifications need survellance. I've been to a peer support group for bisexuals. The group leader was being trained. I watched what they did. I saw their mistakes (based upon my training at a post grad level). For the most part, it was not that bad if they made a mistake. I was told that men did break down and cry as they disclosed their pain to the group.

As part of my education and training, I took part in a group dynamics weekend. It was quite interesting. People had been taking classes together and discussing in an academic manner all kinds of things. During the "encounter" weekend people began to strip away their facade and their "real life" issues began to appear. The leader of the group was the course instructor (a doctorate of pyschology) and his assistant had a MA working towards his doctorate. I experienced the raw emotion myself when my facade striped away. Without their skills I could see that it is very, very dangerous for someone to call themselves a "counsellor" and divy out "help" in people's lives.

When someone claims to be a counsellor, therapist their credentials need to be presented. Which title are they referring to and which governing body determines their certification should be presented. Dr Drew is an MD and expert in whatever his website gives. Regardless of the country of certification ,there are these governing board to determine a person's qualification. Some anonymous person setting up "shop" on the internet and stating that they are no longer certified by their governing board because they disagree with the board needs to be challenged.

Specifically what is the label that they add to the word "counsellor"? therapist?(massage therapist?) etc. If they are evasive as to what type of counsellor etc. and uncertified, beware. They may make you feel good and supported at the moment. Their words may make sense but then so did Jim Jones and his coolaid solution to many of his troubled followers. Following their advice could be dangerous.

darkeyes
Jul 14, 2012, 12:56 PM
Yes darkeyes. I have also been a counsellor and a psychometrist with post graduate education and training in psychology. I do not add to my statements that I am a former retired etc. counsellor. I stopped quite short of my doctorate..and even my MA in psychology. Yet, I was counselling within a very narrow field as a psychometrist within very specific area to test the person with. If I was qualified in B, I did not do X, Y and Z therapy applying them at will without supervision.

The difference is between the governing body licensing a person to do X. As a lay counsellor for a trade union, you counselled the person based upon what you had been trained to do. You were not on television, radio or internet giving out generalized solutions to resolve personal stressful scenarios and throwing your "title" around. If in the LGBT there are counsellors and they are lay, their qualifications need survellance. I've been to a peer support group for bisexuals. The group leader was being trained. I watched what they did. I saw their mistakes (based upon my training at a post grad level). For the most part, it was not that bad if they made a mistake. I was told that men did break down and cry as they disclosed their pain to the group.

As part of my education and training, I took part in a group dynamics weekend. It was quite interesting. People had been taking classes together and discussing in an academic manner all kinds of things. During the "encounter" weekend people began to strip away their facade and their "real life" issues began to appear. The leader of the group was the course instructor (a doctorate of pyschology) and his assistant had a MA working towards his doctorate. I experienced the raw emotion myself when my facade striped away. Without their skills I could see that it is very, very dangerous for someone to call themselves a "counsellor" and divy out "help" in people's lives.

When someone claims to be a counsellor, therapist their credentials need to be presented. Which title are they referring to and which governing body determines their certification should be presented. Dr Drew is an MD and expert in whatever his website gives. Regardless of the country of certification ,there are these governing board to determine a person's qualification. Some anonymous person setting up "shop" on the internet and stating that they are no longer certified by their governing board because they disagree with the board needs to be challenged.

Specifically what is the label that they add to the word "counsellor"? therapist?(massage therapist?) etc. If they are evasive as to what type of counsellor etc. and uncertified, beware. They may make you feel good and supported at the moment. Their words may make sense but then so did Jim Jones and his coolaid solution to many of his troubled followers. Following their advice could be dangerous.
We should be wary of whatever people claim to be.. espesh on the net, tenni.. but whatever they claim to be mostly I accept them at face value until proven otherwise.. doubts exist sure, cos we don't know for certain an these may increase or decrease with time.. I just don't let it bug me... there are many qualified people who are every bit as dangerous as one who is unqualified... we had luffly nice GP near wer me mum lived as a child who was qualified and who bumped off more old peeps than u and I have had hot dinners.. the nazi's had a few of those too, and the Japanese... and few such qualified people are paid lots right now for just such a trait by ur country and mine and certainly the US.. just chill, babes... there are good, bad, indifferent and downright evil counsellors and therapists in all walks of life.:bigrin:

falcondfw
Jul 14, 2012, 1:19 PM
Tenni,

First, Dr. Drew Pinsky is an internal medicine specialist who specializes in Substance Abuse Counseling. I used to listen to his show loveline with Adam Carola all the time.

Second, to counsel someone simply means to give them advice.

Third, get over yourself. No one, especially not Drew, designated you as the scam/fake police of this website. LDD makes it very clear that he is an ex-counselor and has on many occasions. Would you prefer if everybody posted their resumes in links for your approval along with contact information and references so you can check out the validity of claims? I CLAIM to be a web programmer. Would you like to investigate me too? I could claim to be made of green cheese (my cats would love that. ooooppps. There I go again. Another CLAIM about something. The CLAIM that I have cats.), but I have no proof.

Fourth, this is tired and old. I'm tired of seeing you just go after the same people for the same thing at every turn. You don't like LDD or DD. We get it. Tough cookies. There are always, everywhere you go, going to be people you don't like and have issues with. Deal with it. It's called being a mature adult.

void()
Jul 15, 2012, 10:07 AM
Void wanders by and stakes a claim poster. It reads:

Void is a mutant as evidenced via his genetics. Void is also one whom is slightly disturbed as evidenced by his desire to rule the world/s with Sporks, Silly Putty, Lint, Duct Tape, Awk, Grep, and love. Void rejects Marylin Manson's ideology of everything wrapped in plastic. Void has been called a freak and does not deny being a freak. Void has been called a kook and relishes in his kookiness. Void often practices the art of blankness which evokes others to consider him nihilist. Void believes in Something however, and therefore cannot believe in Nothing.

Void wanders on into his void playfully muttering to no one, "I'm a lumberjack and that's okay!"

Apologies, could not resist the urge to harbinger a pinch of levity and playfulness.

I believe we all should indeed be cautious of the company we keep. That however does not imply one abase others whom merely seek helping people. In fact, in being one to abase others implies disrespect of people's intellect, judgement.

"You cannot discern the chaff from whey, I'll do it for you", I can imagine one as such saying.

And yes, sometimes there is difficulty in discerning. Sometimes, not all times. So, one establishing themselves as a gate keeper unless via being requested seems a bit iron handed. Granted the gate keepers likely mean well. As Milton reminds us, "the roads to Hell are paved with good intentions."

Okay, enough serious stuff. I need to wander off into a cozy mystery requiring planning.

falcondfw
Jul 15, 2012, 1:00 PM
As always, love ya void. Sporks? Such erotic instruments. And totally fun when THWACKED on the head. lol.

tenni
Jul 16, 2012, 4:03 PM
I am well aware of Dr Drew's credentials. He is acredited and governed by a College of Physicians in his state. His radio programme is ethically questionable but seems to work within the code of conduct of his college of certification.

I know an MD who is 80 years old. He is retired. He still pays his fees to his College of Physicans to maintain his acreditation so that he may work a few weeks a year. That is a professional approach. He does not claim to disagree with the governing body and therefore is ex this or that and give out advice. Lawyers, etc. are not permitted to do such things nor is any other professional.

I do not think that "we" should get over those who disagree with their certification governing body and are no longer acredited but give out "advice" using the term counsellor very loosely switching from one specialty to another. If you are speaking as a lay person, you do not tag yourself with a professional vague term. People quit and let their certification lapse or they are removed from the college of certification for violating the codes of conduct and ethics.

jamieknyc
Jul 16, 2012, 4:25 PM
Some media "doctos" do not have credentials. "Dr. Laura" held no medical or psychological degrees or licenses. Neither does "Dr. Ruth," although she at least had twenty years of actual experince as a sex therapist.

jarhead
Jul 16, 2012, 6:45 PM
Dr. Laura certainly has certifications, outside of her Ph.D

Long Duck Dong
Jul 16, 2012, 11:22 PM
in NZ, accredited and membership are two different aspects...... one is a cert and a degree, the other is a membership to a group or society......

I am a retired martial artist and tho I no longer teach martial arts, I still hold a 3rd dan black belt and I can teach martial arts, the only limit for me, is that I can teach privately and I can open a gym / training school, but I can not teach the martial arts as part of the nz martial arts federation, any person I teach privately, can hold any belt I give them but they would still need to be tested and accredited by the NZ martial arts federation in order to compete in a official event / contest and be registered as a member

it is the same with my counselor and therapist certs, they are valid and continue to be valid, I can join a counseling group as a counselor and therapist, but I must make it clear that I am a independent counselor and therapist and I am not working under any official body or association but I would continue to be governed by NZ law and the restrictions that are in place

I personally think that much of the issue in this thread is ignorance by the OP and their inability to realise that new zealand is not canada, and there is a difference between a person trained in a special field such as a MD and a counselor and therapist that works in multi fields.....

AND that I am RETIRED !!!! I am not acting as a counselor and therapist in the site and that is made very clear to people.... something that the OP continues to miss and neglect to acknowledge so they can spread misinformation about people in the site

void()
Jul 17, 2012, 12:47 AM
As always, love ya void. Sporks? Such erotic instruments. And totally fun when THWACKED on the head. lol.

I like playing them as musical instruments, similar to how one plays spoons as such. Could the see humor and stress relief value of thwaking someone with one, although I would say a half inch of plastic straw would serve better. Oh excuse me, I drifted off a moment, got to thinking about watering a lawn. *void stares off semi-blankly with this half smirking grin on his face which lets drool run down the corners of his lips*