So what should I do? [Archive]

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JrzGuy3

Jun 16, 2006, 3:05 AM

I work as a beach teller (I sell beach tickets) in Asbury Park, NJ. For those of you that don't know the area, Asbury Park has a very large gay population (I don't know what the per capita is, but it's way above the national). The other day I leave my ticket trailer and walk to my car. While I'm going past the Stone Pony, I pass two guys with their arms around each other. Just after I pass them, I walk past another guy who looks at them and then says to me with a smirk, "You know being queer is one thing but you don't have to fucking advertise it."

The two guys were probably in earshot but were behind me so I didn't notice a reaction. I felt kinda shitty not telling this guy to fuck off (and loudly enough the two guys could hear), but I was just leaving my job. Now it's a beach job and the atmosphere is extremely casual- when I was a lowly ticket taker two years ago, I had no problem being out to everyone I knew at work. However, now, I've been rehired as the 2nd highest teller position (the woman I work directly with is the head teller, and I'd likely get her job if she left tomorrow)- I'm not really a punk kid with a throwaway job anymore, I'm adecently high ranking employee partially in charge of our books. I'm really hesitant as a town employee of a not-very-large town visibly telling off a local. Even though I was on my own time (I was off and leaving), I was still spitting distance from work and had been gone not even 5 minutes. I didn't say anything but kinda scoffed. So my question is what should I do next time this happens (judging from when I worked here two years ago, this WILL happen again)?

strawberry8302

Jun 16, 2006, 3:37 AM

Well Jrz, I think that the next time something like that happens, pull the person to the side and kindly give him your opinion on the situation. Now, you said the 2 guys were not in earshot to hear his comment, therefore they didnt need to hear you tell him to "fuck off". I can understand you defending their honor if they had heard him, but they didnt, so a defense wasn't necessary. I know you wanted to defend them because they didnt hear it, and because you're bi and you were personally offended. But to keep your job and be a professional at work, take the above advice.

Avocado

Jun 16, 2006, 3:42 AM

JrzGuy3

Jun 16, 2006, 4:01 AM

Now, you said the 2 guys were not in earshot to hear his comment, therefore they didnt need to hear you tell him to "fuck off".

I don't know if they were or not. The idiot definitely had his head turned and voice loud enough he intended them to hear him. However, they didn't respond verbally and I wasn't turned to see any other response.

But all the same, advice taken. My problem is I just feel that by not responding to this kind of stupidity, I'm implicitly painting it as appropriate and acceptable.

Avocado

Jun 16, 2006, 4:03 AM

I don't know if they were or not. The idiot definitely had his head turned and voice loud enough he intended them to hear him. However, they didn't respond verbally and I wasn't turned to see any other response.

But all the same, advice taken. My problem is I just feel that by not responding to this kind of stupidity, I'm implicitly painting it as appropriate and acceptable.

Gotta say I agree, although it doesn't mean you should or shouldn't say something. There are people who can't be reached like the gay man mentioned in the other thread, but telling people they don't have a free run could tone their openness of their intolerance down a bit.

canuckotter

Jun 16, 2006, 7:13 AM

Well, don't be aggressive or anything like that if you're worried about your job. Simply say to him "and a man and a woman doing that is advertising being straight?" Say it in a friendly way, as though you were talking to your best friend about it or something.
That's the approach I've taken in some situations in the past. I'll let a certain amount of silliness slide, but in situations like that I'll make a dismissive comment. In that case I'd probably have looked around and said, "What? There's an ad? I didn't even know that being queer was something you could go out to a store and buy!" Something utterly stupid like that. :) That way I keep it as a joke, while letting the person (and their target) know that I don't agree with them. Or at least confusing the hell out of them so they stop making comments like that to me again. :)

Avocado

Jun 16, 2006, 7:17 AM

That's the approach I've taken in some situations in the past. I'll let a certain amount of silliness slide, but in situations like that I'll make a dismissive comment. In that case I'd probably have looked around and said, "What? There's an ad? I didn't even know that being queer was something you could go out to a store and buy!" Something utterly stupid like that. :) That way I keep it as a joke, while letting the person (and their target) know that I don't agree with them. Or at least confusing the hell out of them so they stop making comments like that to me again. :)

Quality! :bipride:

Rhuth

Jun 16, 2006, 8:48 AM

You sould do what you are doing! Lol Collect responses here so you have a bunch of them in your head and at your disposal when an occasion rears its ugly head. I was going to put in my own witty retort, but for the life of me, I cannot top the one canuckotter posted. Anyone else have any anti-intollerance jokes to keep on file?

trip1

Jun 16, 2006, 9:15 AM

Avocado

Jun 16, 2006, 9:16 AM

Hi If your worried about your job don't react to people like that. Your no good to yourself with out work. Just because some stupid people made a comment. Just consider the narrow minded source. People like that aren't worth the sweat off your balls so don't lower yourself to their level...

He'd have to go some to stoop down to their level. Anyway there are various employment laws that make it illegal to sack someone on the grounds of sexuality.

ScifiBiJen

Jun 16, 2006, 11:18 AM

Anyway there are various employment laws that make it illegal to sack someone on the grounds of sexuality.

Umm... that just starts into a-whole-nother pile of beans.

Regardless, it wouldn't so much that Jrz/Fed would be getting fired over His sexuality, but for antagonizing the paying customers... even though he was sticking up for someone else's and his own sexuality.

Personally, I'm very much a victim to the "10 minutes later comebacks" ("Ugh! I should have said...")
My advice? If it happens during working hours/ sometime when your boss is reasonably nearby (or even just th next time you think your boss is in a reasonable mood), tell him that you feel strongly about this and you're not going to ignore having patrons openly being discriminatory to one another. While he's probably not going to feel the same way, it's better that he at least has the warning before someone else comes up to him.

I'd say just address the offended party ('Don't let assholes like that guy bother you'), but that doesn't really fix the problem. From there, you're probably best to just keep your responses to the guy at a low level (maybe not 'fuck off' so much as 'shut up and leave them alone').

Yeah, this is a pretty touchy situation...and a good job hanging in the balance... but I'm sure there'll be a middle ground where that won't be in jeopardy.

:smirlove2
<3

arana

Jun 16, 2006, 12:23 PM

Avocado

Jun 16, 2006, 12:33 PM

Well just because he was an ass doesn't mean he had to advertise it.

I have a question, you said that the population is very highly gay but you worry about your position at work being in jepordy. So are you saying that your employers are anti-gays but don't mind profitting from them? I'm assuming NJ is a right to work state. You have to do what is needed for your own survival. The words of an idiot shouldn't force you to resort to taking actions that could create a hardship for you, even though they may sting a bit. If he was being loud enough for the couple to hear him he meant to provoke them. People like that are looking for a fight and you don't need to give them ammunition. You did the right thing in your situation.

I don't think people like him are looking for fights. What makes them feel big is saying what they say and no-one standing up to them. I remember once there were 2 blokes one of which was in a Chelsea shirt. One of them said something about my fiancee and I responded with chants of "Newcastle Newcastle Newcastle" and "Champions!" (this was the night after we won the league at the lane) and they were absolutely shocked! :tongue:

arana

Jun 16, 2006, 12:45 PM

I don't think people like him are looking for fights. What makes them feel big is saying what they say and no-one standing up to them. I remember once there were 2 blokes one of which was in a Chelsea shirt. One of them said something about my fiancee and I responded with chants of "Newcastle Newcastle Newcastle" and "Champions!" (this was the night after we won the league at the lane) and they were absolutely shocked! :tongue:
I didn't mean fights necessarily in the physical form, sorry. There are those that enjoy the feeling of power because they think gays are weak and will cower to them. Typical bullies.

biecnal

Jun 16, 2006, 3:43 PM

Well, don't be aggressive or anything like that if you're worried about your job. Simply say to him "and a man and a woman doing that is advertising being straight?" Say it in a friendly way, as though you were talking to your best friend about it or something.

Avocado,

I agree 110% with your post. This way, hopefully, the ignorant shit will learn something and really think about what he said.

Lance
:flag4:

JohnnyV

Jun 16, 2006, 3:57 PM

JrZ,

I wanted to thank you for your long and excellent posts on my other thread.

About your situation, I can tell you that as a teacher I have to deal with similar behavior from adolescents all the time. Usually I have found that the best tactic is to avoid any humor or sarcasm, and be completely serious. Use your authority as an employee of the business.

I would tell them, "please respect other people in the park or we're going to have to ask you to leave." Just make sure that you have the authority to do that.

Another great thing to say is, "excuse me, this is a public area and those people have the right not to be disturbed when they are having fun."

Or another great thing to say is, "I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable. This park is mostly geared toward people who can handle public affection between any kind of couple. Maybe it's not the place you're looking for."

That's just my personal approach, but I have found that it works. If you try to say something jazzy and snappy, you will probably feed their behavior, since often young males misbehave, with the desire to entertain themselves with some kind of witty repartee. Also, in my experience, young people who say dumb things are often the first ones to play innocent and report you to a superior for supposedly being mean to them (this is a tactic I've seen many times) so you don't want to say anything to them that could be interpreted in any way as inappropriate. Keep a straight face and be very sober.

Once when I was teaching a huge lecture class, a 19-year-old said, "why do we have to read Virgil? Rome is so fucking gay."

I tried to respond by being witty. I said, "oh really, and how would you know? Have you slept with a lot of Romans?" Then when the class started laughing, I rode the tide and went further. I said, "you are the stupidest student I have ever had the privilege of teaching. Please go to the bursar's office after class and ask for a refund for all the tuition you've paid; you're unteachable."

My comments ended up landing me in a lot of trouble, and it took weeks to get through all the complaints and accusations by that students. He was successful at deflecting attention from his homophobic obscenity to the way I handled the situation. I learned the lesson then, not to use humor in such situations. Use authority and seriousness, instead, and don't say anything back to the kids that you wouldn't want your mother or someone in Trenton to read in print.

Love,
J

jedinudist

Jun 16, 2006, 7:48 PM

The following phrase has worked for me a few tiems:

"Wow, that's a bit harsh">

BTW - love your icon- All glory to the hypnotoad!

NightHawk

Jun 17, 2006, 8:14 AM

Or, without making a big deal out of it, you might confidently and calmly say, "I disagree with your viewpoint." This guy was looking for you to join him with some affirmation of his negative comment to put the two men into the mode of being outcasts. You only needed to deny him that effect. At that point, it is 3 to one and he is the outcast.

JrzGuy3

Jun 17, 2006, 8:37 AM

BTW - love your icon- All glory to the hypnotoad!

ALL GLORY TO THE THE HYPNOTOAD!!! (http://www.r33b.net/)

wildangel

Jun 17, 2006, 1:25 PM

I think a very audible "Don't be an [ignorant] jerk" would get the point across without offending any bystanders or announcing your preferences. This works even in a red state ;)

Although canuckotter's "What? There's an ad? I didn't even know that being queer was something you could go out to a store and buy!" is much more catchy!

strawberry8302

Jun 18, 2006, 1:56 AM

I don't know if they were or not. The idiot definitely had his head turned and voice loud enough he intended them to hear him. However, they didn't respond verbally and I wasn't turned to see any other response.

But all the same, advice taken. My problem is I just feel that by not responding to this kind of stupidity, I'm implicitly painting it as appropriate and acceptable.

Oh, ok. Well, I don't think that you're implicitly painting it as you think you are, I just think that you mainly feel bad because you're bi, and it would hurt you if you heard it. With all the ignorant ppl in the world, they'll be another oppertunity to tell some jerk to stop being stupid. But then again, telling an ignorant jerk not to do something will probably provoke him/her, so choose wisely.

JrzGuy3

Jun 18, 2006, 4:33 AM

I have a question, you said that the population is very highly gay but you worry about your position at work being in jepordy.

I wouldn't put it that strongly. I see it more being that this is a lot of stress I don't need. The issue I'm more concerned with is that Asbury Park is a very political town and I don't want to throw a rock that snowballs into a boulder.

I'm also not quite as concerned with retribution, actually quite the opposite, I as a town employee would rather not get in the middle of an altercation like this. For example, if someone in my line levelled a slur (sexual or otherwise) at another person, I wouldn't go back at that them. I WOULD make sure our lifeguards (our stopgap police force when we have incidents) knew. If I was on around on my own time and cognizance, however, I would have no problem returning something pointier (depending on time of day and the part of town I'm in... we still have some really seedy areas). The biggest issue I had here was that I was somewhere between my own time and the clock.

Anyway, I appreciate all the posts. Thanks everyone!

Flounder1967

Jun 18, 2006, 9:22 AM

I have run into this alot where I work. I just say that i have no problem, and that is there their business. I then get a confsing stare and thet is the end of the conversion. THe few times people ask more questions. I tell them one of my best friends is gay and he was in my wedding. Which is true. After that i never hear of anything like that again, from that person.