Reactions to President Obama's Support of Same Sex Marriage

[æonpax]

House strikes back on gay marriage - "Just hours after President Barack Obama publicly backed gay marriage, the House struck back and passed a measure aimed at reinforcing the Defense of Marriage Act. With a 245-171 vote, the House voted to stop the Justice Department from using taxpayer funds to actively oppose DOMA — the Clinton-era law defining marriage as between a man and a woman that the Obama administration decided in February 2011 to no longer defend in court. Source - http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76147.html


Comment: I have to believe this is just a posturing vote for the rabid anti-gay folks at home becuase all the Justice department is doing is 'not enforcing DOMA'...either that or most Congressional reps are really clueless.



***


Bristol Palin blames Obama’s gay marriage support on his daughters, ‘Glee’ - "Bristol Palin has taken to her [Facebook] blog to blast President Obama’s shift in support of gay marriage. In a blog post titled, “Hail to the Chiefs – Malia and Sasha Obama,” the daughter of former presidential candidate Sarah Palin suggests that the reason for Obama’s change-of-heart was caused by his daughters watching too many episodes of television show ‘Glee’." Source - http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/12465954-418/bristol-palin-blames-obamas-gay-marriage-support-on-daughters-glee.html


Comment: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.



***


Top Romney Adviser: We’ll Campaign On Constitutional Marriage Ban - Ed Gillespie, senior adviser to Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, told Chuck Todd on MSNBC’s Daily Rundown that the campaign would make President Obama’s support for marriage equality an issue this November and that Romney will actively push for a constitutional amendment to take away the right of states to voluntarily extend marriage equality to same-sex couples. Source - http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/05/10/481772/romney-adviser-gillespie-constitutional-marriage-ba/

(http://thinkprogress.org/election/2012/05/10/481772/romney-adviser-gillespie-constitutional-marriage-ba/)
Comment: This is a safe stance for Mitten's (Mitt) as it would take a congressional 3/4's majority to ratify and the votes just are not there.



***


Rush Limbaugh: Obama Leading 'A War On Traditional Marriage' - An incensed Rush Limbaugh accused President Obama of leading a "war" on marriage on his Wednesday radio show. Though news of Obama's gay marriage endorsement broke just as Limbaugh's radio program ended, the media speculated that the president planned to comment on the subject well before the official announcement was made. A caller phoned in and told Limbaugh that pro-gay marriage forces were winning the argument in America. Source - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/rush-limbaugh-obama-gay-marriage_n_1505798.html?


Comment: This is priceless. The three time married and divorced obscenity known as Rush Limbaugh is defending the sanctity of marriage. Whatever.

[darkeyes]

Kate was speaking to one of our American friends in town yesterday and his reaction was if Romney wins maybe it will mean compulsory haircuts... dunno wot he has to worry 'bout cos he has hardly a hair on 'is napper! An' he is str8... I kno.. underhand... but wot the hell? Underhand in this election is the least of peeps worries...

[DuckiesDarling]

Had a bit of a row with my mother yesterday morning over this. I finally said to her, "Mom, what does being American mean to you in one word" She said "I'm free" I said so you want to deny freedom to other Americans because you are afraid of them? I told her flat out I support gay marriage and I support gay divorce. I don't want anyone to have anymore rights than me but I damned sure don't want them to have less rights either. People can't choose who they love, the fact they love is what's important. We went on in this vein for a bit until she finally huffed and shut up. Bottom line my mother is a racist bigot who won't vote for Obama cause he's part black and supports gay marriage. I told her that's okay maybe the other Americans with a brain will vote for him instead of a bully who tormented kids for being different when he was in school.

[darkeyes]

Things we did as school kids shouldn't follow us round in our lives like a dead weight and neither should we be judged as adults on those indiscretions born of stupidity.. but they do..especially when people are in the public eye.. lady across the street from me mum thinks I am a nasty foul mouthed evil lil cow cos when I was 13 I gave her viscous, smarmy, nasty, slimy, little boy a bollocking for trying to swing a puppy around his head by the tail.. she still thinks just the same of me and makes no bones of her distaste... I am not that foul mouthed girl of then and never really was even although using a wee swear word now and then is not unknown.. but that smarmy nasty viscous little sod is also older and neither is he now that lil horror.. he is a decent enough guy with his own family who are relatively well balanced.. the kids are a right gobby pair of lil toerags as kids are... but they'll change like we did..and he doesn't hate me for it.. he agrees he was a nasty little sod, but that I was scary as hell.. but there are always those who will use the past, even our youthful past to discredit us.. it is what we think now, and how we deal with the world and those in it that people should judge us on.. not owt else.. some peeps will always stick the knife in for what we did as kids right throughout our lives.. it's how they perceive us as adults..

What Romney did or is alleged to have done should bear no relation to our judgement of him now..it is but an interesting passing note of a man running for election.. I have no idea of how he deals with those around him.. I judge him on his thoughts, what he stands for and what he intends to do if he is elected.. he will have personal failings as an adult just as Obama certainly does and as we all do... but it is those things for now I judge him and anyone else who seeks any position of responsibility.. not the fact he might have been a nasty, stupid prat when he was lad...

[DuckiesDarling]

Things we did as school kids shouldn't follow us round in our lives like a dead weight and neither should we be judged as adults on those indiscretions born of stupidity.. but they do..especially when people are in the public eye.. lady across the street from me mum thinks I am a nasty foul mouthed evil lil cow cos when I was 13 I gave her viscous, smarmy, nasty, slimy, little boy a bollocking for trying to swing a puppy around his head by the tail.. she still thinks just the same of me and makes no bones of her distaste... I am not that foul mouthed girl of then and never really was even although using a wee swear word now and then is not unknown.. but that smarmy nasty viscous little sod is also older and neither is he now that lil horror.. he is a decent enough guy with his own family who are relatively well balanced.. the kids are a right gobby pair of lil toerags as kids are... but they'll change like we did..and he doesn't hate me for it.. he agrees he was a nasty little sod, but that I was scary as hell.. but there are always those who will use the past, even our youthful past to discredit us.. it is what we think now, and how we deal with the world and those in it that people should judge us on.. not owt else.. some peeps will always stick the knife in for what we did as kids right throughout our lives.. it's how they perceive us as adults..

What Romney did or is alleged to have done should bear no relation to our judgement of him now..it is but an interesting passing note of a man running for election.. I have no idea of how he deals with those around him.. I judge him on his thoughts, what he stands for and what he intends to do if he is elected.. he will have personal failings as an adult just as Obama certainly does and as we all do... but it is those things for now I judge him and anyone else who seeks any position of responsibility.. not the fact he might have been a nasty, stupid prat when he was lad...

Fran, the fact that Romney did what we would now call "gay bashing" when he was in school is most certainly of merit when it's about a man who is steadfastly against same sex marriage and other LGBT rights. What politicians do in early life follows them their entire life, it's why people who have secrets to keep should never go into politics. I don't like Romney, for the things coming out now and for his entire political platform. And for you to say that it should have no bearing, well maybe it doesn't in the UK, oh wait aren't we seeing things regarding the hacking scandal and the PM signing off with LOL?, well it does here where we judge people by their actions not just their words and his early bullying of those that are different doesn't bode well for all of us if he is elected.

[darkeyes]

Fran, the fact that Romney did what we would now call "gay bashing" when he was in school is most certainly of merit when it's about a man who is steadfastly against same sex marriage and other LGBT rights. What politicians do in early life follows them their entire life, it's why people who have secrets to keep should never go into politics. I don't like Romney, for the things coming out now and for his entire political platform. And for you to say that it should have no bearing, well maybe it doesn't in the UK, oh wait aren't we seeing things regarding the hacking scandal and the PM signing off with LOL?, well it does here where we judge people by their actions not just their words and his early bullying of those that are different doesn't bode well for all of us if he is elected.
If the tale is true of course it is gay bashing.. no argument whatever from me.. but my argument is that we consider man on the now, not the then.. no one should be expected to carry the stupid indiscretions of youth around with them for ever and a day..we change.. all of us..

In forums I have written own several times of my own brother and of our long estrangement.. I cried real tears of heartbreak for half of my lifetime...tears for one who has "gay bashed", who has acted the bigot and the shitebag, with whom I was estranged from the day I announced to my family the truth of my sexuality.. I was 14.. and from that day until only a few years ago there was within him a resentment and a loathing for what I was and everything about gay and bisexuals that had never been instilled in him by upbringing..I was the catalyst to him becoming what he did and it is something I have to live with somewhat uneasily even although I knew nothing of the rage and hatred within him... he hurt people.. really hurt people...he looked for them and hurt them..me, his baby sister only in the heart.. other people physically and sometimes brutally.. he is not like that now.. and in the few years we are once again drawing ever closer together and are just about as close as we were when we were children.. he has made peace with himself but is wracked by the most awful guilt and he has made peace with the queer world...there were reasons why he was as he was.. and they still eat at him..and me too now I have finally learned what they are.. now he is a much a supporter of the lgbt and of same sex marriage as just about anyone I know... the boy is now a man.. do I hold his past against him and never forgive him for what he did and judge him for what he was and did over 14 years without compassion? Or do I judge him on what he is, does and says now? Is he still as he was? No.. he has come to terms at last with something he doesn't quite understand and is struggling with gaining understanding..

Romney's story is not my brother's.. it is very different.. what he is alleged to have done, if true, was an act which no sane human being can attach any credit.. but that act was over 40 years ago...we judge the man on the now.. not the then.. the fact that he holds views which do us no favours and would almost certainly do us no good should he be elected.. it is upon that we judge him electable or not.. one to vote for or otherwise.. not for one act of bigoted stupidity.. that he apparently holds views similar to those he held as a boy is incidental, but it is those views, now long since matured, and how he is as a man now we judge him, not on the naive ones of a misbegotten youth and that rash act of nastiness..

[DuckiesDarling]

Fran, with all due respect, you are not voting in this election and your trying to sway voters one way or the other on the issue is just ludicrous. It may have long range consequences for the rest of the word but it has immediate consequences for Americans. Now, interesting you completely ignored the fact I have issues with his entire platform, the entire save the rich, discard the poor because we have "safety nets" for them. The way he has no real clue on how to improve our economy but he's good at trying to spin things in his favor. I can't honestly see anyone who is in favor of LGBT rights and same sex marriage voting for Romney, but then again a lot of LGBT people don't even think we need same sex marriage cause it doesn't affect them. They don't want to be married or they are bi but in love with an opposite gender partner. I want it for all people, regardless of sexuality, gender or color. I want everyone to have the same rights and I want it to be within my lifetime. So I am proudly voting for a President who has started to make a stance on same sex marriage and has achieved banning DADT.

[darkeyes]

Fran, with all due respect, you are not voting in this election and your trying to sway voters one way or the other on the issue is just ludicrous. It may have long range consequences for the rest of the word but it has immediate consequences for Americans. Now, interesting you completely ignored the fact I have issues with his entire platform, the entire save the rich, discard the poor because we have "safety nets" for them. The way he has no real clue on how to improve our economy but he's good at trying to spin things in his favor. I can't honestly see anyone who is in favor of LGBT rights and same sex marriage voting for Romney, but then again a lot of LGBT people don't even think we need same sex marriage cause it doesn't affect them. They don't want to be married or they are bi but in love with an opposite gender partner. I want it for all people, regardless of sexuality, gender or color. I want everyone to have the same rights and I want it to be within my lifetime. So I am proudly voting for a President who has started to make a stance on same sex marriage and has achieved banning DADT.
Nope.. don't have a vote tis true.. but because of the huge influence the US and the decisions made by it has such a vast effect on the rest of us don't think we do not have more than a passing interest.. decisions and events in the US makes affects little countries like mine infinitely more than decisions my little dump makes on the US..and they are pretty immediate an' all.... so we in less influential places have an interest.. I have an interest.. and as a citizen of the world will say what I feel is needed to defend the interests which I feel need defending.. that may be construed as attempting to influence how members of this site how to cast their vote and it is true I suppose.. how many take note of what I say tho is ver debatable but I'm afraid in the days of such sophisticated global communication it is something we can no longer avoid...not too sure we want to either.. ludicrous maybe, but unavoidable, Darlin' darlin', and methinks, even desirable...

God, girl.. u would think I am tryin' to getcha 2 vote for Romney... perish the thought... but I do like fairness and have never liked muck raking, so i apologise for what began as merely something I thought was funny.. gotten out of hand a bit.. but it happens..

[BiCplAz]

BFD - Big Fuckin' Deal

[falcondfw]

Things we did as school kids shouldn't follow us round in our lives like a dead weight and neither should we be judged as adults on those indiscretions born of stupidity.. but they do..especially when people are in the public eye.. lady across the street from me mum thinks I am a nasty foul mouthed evil lil cow cos when I was 13 I gave her viscous, smarmy, nasty, slimy, little boy a bollocking for trying to swing a puppy around his head by the tail.. she still thinks just the same of me and makes no bones of her distaste... I am not that foul mouthed girl of then and never really was even although using a wee swear word now and then is not unknown.. but that smarmy nasty viscous little sod is also older and neither is he now that lil horror.. he is a decent enough guy with his own family who are relatively well balanced.. the kids are a right gobby pair of lil toerags as kids are... but they'll change like we did..and he doesn't hate me for it.. he agrees he was a nasty little sod, but that I was scary as hell.. but there are always those who will use the past, even our youthful past to discredit us.. it is what we think now, and how we deal with the world and those in it that people should judge us on.. not owt else.. some peeps will always stick the knife in for what we did as kids right throughout our lives.. it's how they perceive us as adults..

What Romney did or is alleged to have done should bear no relation to our judgement of him now..it is but an interesting passing note of a man running for election.. I have no idea of how he deals with those around him.. I judge him on his thoughts, what he stands for and what he intends to do if he is elected.. he will have personal failings as an adult just as Obama certainly does and as we all do... but it is those things for now I judge him and anyone else who seeks any position of responsibility.. not the fact he might have been a nasty, stupid prat when he was lad...

DAMN!!!! Fran??? Are we actually starting to agree on politics? Has that dark place grown cold? lol.

[falcondfw]

Fran, the fact that Romney did what we would now call "gay bashing" when he was in school is most certainly of merit when it's about a man who is steadfastly against same sex marriage and other LGBT rights. What politicians do in early life follows them their entire life, it's why people who have secrets to keep should never go into politics. I don't like Romney, for the things coming out now and for his entire political platform. And for you to say that it should have no bearing, well maybe it doesn't in the UK, oh wait aren't we seeing things regarding the hacking scandal and the PM signing off with LOL?, well it does here where we judge people by their actions not just their words and his early bullying of those that are different doesn't bode well for all of us if he is elected.

For one of the only times, I disagree with you DD. What happened as a kid should not be held against a politician (unless they murdered someone or molested another kid. something like that can't be ignored.), or any person.

As kids we are learning what is wrong and what is right. We cross lines without realizing it. Hopefully, we learn from our mistakes. I have not read about what Romney is alleged to have done. But from this discussion, it does not bother me. Did you NEVER pick on a classmate in grade school? Did you never call someone a "fag" on the playground? If not, you are one of the few. That crap was so common when I was growing up. So were bullies. Some learned their lessons. Some did not.

I am not a Romney fan. But the alternative scares the hell out of me, economically and militarily.

Yes, we need to judge people by their actions, but not actions that happened 50 years ago as a kid.

[falcondfw]

I agree. The OP is pointless, did anyone actually expect them to react any differently or in favor of same gender marriage? What's more interesting are how there are LGBT people who are not believing Obama at all when he claimed he's somehow "evolved" and is now for same gender marriage when he needs campaign funds and is trying to get re-elected.

Well said on the last part drugstore.

[nutme]

Just as an FYI, the story on Romney harassing a homosexual kid while in school was fabricated. Even the sister of the man, who is now deceased, has come out and denied that the event ever happened.

[falcondfw]

"the entire save the rich, discard the poor because we have "safety nets" for them. The way he has no real clue on how to improve our economy"

DD,
Now where does this come from? Have you gone to his web site and read his economic policies? Or are you just repeating "the Liberal Line"?
Romney has actually worked in the private sector and run a business and created jobs. What are Obama's economic qualifications?
And honestly, Romney is right, we do have safety nets. Unemployment compensation, WIC, Food Stamps, Social Security Disability, Medicaid, Medicare, Grants to help single moms go back to college and get a marketable degree, Private Charities. Those seem like some pretty good safety nets to me. Oh. I forgot there are also programs to help the poor get reduced or free electricity, phones, and cell phones.

[falcondfw]

Just as an FYI, the story on Romney harassing a homosexual kid while in school was fabricated. Even the sister of the man, who is now deceased, has come out and denied that the event ever happened.

Ah! gotta love the liberal media doing their jobs so well. Truly investigative reporting!

[æonpax]

Ah! gotta love the liberal media doing their jobs so well. Truly investigative reporting!
`

The Liberal Media - I've often found that people who repeat meaningless cliche's without giving at least one example, are generally misinformed...leastways when it comes to the media...and the business of commerce. You do and say what sells. Period. You find a niche of people with common (or uncommon) interests and for lack of a better word, exploit or milk it for all it has.

I hate to shatter your illusions but I'm afraid there is no such thing as a "liberal media", or conservative for that matter. Corporations own all the major media outlets in the world and profit controls things. "Journalist Integrity" or ethics is just not a profitable code to work by. If you can prove there is actually a "liberal media" I'd love to see your evidence.

I happen to believe the Corporations love Obama and he makes a better puppet than Romney. Them's the facts as I see it.

[falcondfw]

`

The Liberal Media - I've often found that people who repeat meaningless cliche's without giving at least one example, are generally misinformed...leastways when it comes to the media...and the business of commerce. You do and say what sells. Period. You find a niche of people with common (or uncommon) interests and for lack of a better word, exploit or milk it for all it has.

I hate to shatter your illusions but I'm afraid there is no such thing as a "liberal media", or conservative for that matter. Corporations own all the major media outlets in the world and profit controls things. "Journalist Integrity" or ethics is just not a profitable code to work by. If you can prove there is actually a "liberal media" I'd love to see your evidence.

I happen to believe the Corporations love Obama and he makes a better puppet than Romney. Them's the facts as I see it.

Aeon,
If you can seriously look at ANY newscast and say it is not biased (either on the right or left), then I question your skills of observation.
Has Obama EVER been vetted by the media? Have they EVER done any SERIOUS investigation? Any true expose`s on his policies or the bills he supports from a totally informative perspective? Have they investigated, truly investigated Fast & Furious? Solyndra? EPA regulations? If you say yes, then we have nothing further to talk about.

[æonpax]

Aeon,
If you can seriously look at ANY newscast and say it is not biased (either on the right or left), then I question your skills of observation.
Has Obama EVER been vetted by the media? Have they EVER done any SERIOUS investigation? Any true expose`s on his policies or the bills he supports from a totally informative perspective? Have they investigated, truly investigated Fast & Furious? Solyndra? EPA regulations? If you say yes, then we have nothing further to talk about.

Dude,

We are speaking from different perspectives. Modern media is not only profit but also profit margin. In the past, a news personality was hired on the merit of their journalistic integrity and knowledge. Now, looks, cleavage and abrasiveness sell. That happens when a society forsakes education but instead, puts their money in brain-dead entertainment....small wonder news departments are under control of Entertainment Divisions.

All news is biased, to one extent or another and always has been. Look at the history of the Hearst Corp or look up the phrase "yellow journalism". When Gutenberg invented the press, shortly after the bible started to be mass produced, "news" followed. Back then, only the rich knew how to read.

If you want to believe there is a "liberal media", have at it. I see ideology in the media as as just selling point for profitability. There is no more Journalistic integrity left.

[falcondfw]

Completely agree with the fact there is no journalistic integrity left.
But what has happened to their jobs? What has happened to the title of "Investigative Journalist"? Why do they not respect their position in society any more? Their job is to make sure people are informed of the whole truth. And let the people make up their own minds. They can do that job today the same as they did in days past. But it is easier to copy from wikipedia or to write stories promoting an idea than to do things honestly.

There IS a liberal media. They don't hold Obama responsible, investigate his claims, look into his past, or report the facts on his administration. That is because they want him for another 4 years, for their own purposes.

There is also a counter media. Led by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and others. They say they try to be open and fair, but the truth is they are the liberal media ... on the other side. They are out for their own reasons. But at least they report the other side and do some investigation. Not enough investigation, but far more than the left leaning media.

[elian]

I figured there would be an immediate barrage of attacks from conservative folks, I am just amazed because I never thought I would hear the president of the United States say that he supports same-sex marriage. Obviously he is after the "gay" vote, but I still think it's amazing that he said it anyway.

[silkboxerslntx]

Lemmings. All of you. Both sides of the discussion.

You are rats in a maze still chasing the cheese. You are doing exactly what the power elite want by remaining divided over petty differences. All the while refusing to stand together to defeat the machine. You are failing in the largest ever scientific experiment that has ever been undertaken.

Memories of "1984" flash through my mind.

Original thought will not be tolerated. Individualism be damned. Freedom is only an ideal. That's what we are being trained in this mass experiment.

Do you really need a president to say its OK to get a piece of paper to validate you as a person?
Do you really need a presidential candidate to confirm you really ARE straight?
Do you still need daddy's approval?
Do you still need mother's caress?

As long as we are children, we will be disrespected as children.

My two cents? Epic Fail!

[nutme]

This is a direct quote that I copied down, some years ago, off the cornerstone of what once was, the original home of the N.Y. Daily News on 2nd Ave. in NYC. I copied it, as my teeth all but fell from my mouth, at what became of journalistic integrity. "This newspaper will always be fearless and independant. It will have no intangling alliances with any class whatever, for class feeling is always antagnostic to the interest of the whole people" Joseph Medill Paterson; founder of the New York Daily News.

Now, if Mr. Paterson isn't rolling over in his grave, then no one is.

[æonpax]

Completely agree with the fact there is no journalistic integrity left.
But what has happened to their jobs? What has happened to the title of "Investigative Journalist"? Why do they not respect their position in society any more? Their job is to make sure people are informed of the whole truth. And let the people make up their own minds. They can do that job today the same as they did in days past. But it is easier to copy from wikipedia or to write stories promoting an idea than to do things honestly.

There IS a liberal media. They don't hold Obama responsible, investigate his claims, look into his past, or report the facts on his administration. That is because they want him for another 4 years, for their own purposes.

There is also a counter media. Led by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and others. They say they try to be open and fair, but the truth is they are the liberal media ... on the other side. They are out for their own reasons. But at least they report the other side and do some investigation. Not enough investigation, but far more than the left leaning media.
`

Like I said, you are free to believe what you want. For years I have asked people who believe in this mythological concept of a "liberal media" for proof of such a thing and none have ever produced any.These are people who want to believe in this conspiratorial notion. Even lack of evidence of such a thing called the "liberal media" will not dissuade them this faith-like belief in one.

Investigative journalism is the most "expensive" type of reporting, which is why fewer corporate owned media outlets are doing it. They payback is slim. To those uninformed on how it works, it is not done on the internet. It many times takes dozens of people in the field, spending thousands of painstaking hours of manually going through documents, which may and often times, may NOT, reveal what they are looking for. Dead-ends are common not to mention the resistance and stonewalling that happens when someone or something realizes the press is investigating them. TV makes it look easy...it isn't.

The right/conservatives are so caught up in Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS) that they have lost any and all objectivity and will cling tenaciously to even the slightest sliver of evidence that President Obama is guilty of something being deliberately concealed. This has spawned whacked out groups like the "birthers" and given rise to what I consider to idiotic objections to his presidency such as him secretly being an Islamist and in league far right Islamic organizations to over throw America.

I do not support Obama's presidency but not for any of the loony, brain-dead reasons espoused by the conspiratorial minded right. I can cite real-time facts and evidence to support any claim I have. This is unlike the right whom have reduced themselves to dogs sniffing around for a scent and thinking they found one, build up unrealistic and fantasy stories around it. I'll pass.

President Obama's "endorsement" of same sex marriage is a political stunt but is no more a stunt than the Republicans pandering to the evangelical right. It's all about votes. Still, Obama's support for us gays is historic and ground breaking and put's the issue of Gay Marriage in the public spotlight. While I believe jobs, health care and the erosion of our civil rights are more important from a utilitarian perspective, it would be foolish not to take advantage of this opportunity to advance the rights of gays, regardless of who is president.

[darkeyes]

DAMN!!!! Fran??? Are we actually starting to agree on politics? Has that dark place grown cold? lol.
Just because I dislike intensely political muck raking doesn't mean you and I are beginning to agree on politics... I remain the same person I was before I uttered a word about the Romney allegations... one who would not, even if if she could, vote for the bigoted, hypocritical, privileged, right wing slimeball even at the point of a gun... he may or may not have been an little shit when he was young.. but in everything he stands for and believes now.. he most assuredly has matured into one... he is anathema to everything I believe in and have ever said.. and it is that altar upon which he stands condemned..

[darkeyes]

Dude,

We are speaking from different perspectives. Modern media is not only profit but also profit margin. In the past, a news personality was hired on the merit of their journalistic integrity and knowledge. Now, looks, cleavage and abrasiveness sell. That happens when a society forsakes education but instead, puts their money in brain-dead entertainment....small wonder news departments are under control of Entertainment Divisions.

All news is biased, to one extent or another and always has been. Look at the history of the Hearst Corp or look up the phrase "yellow journalism". When Gutenberg invented the press, shortly after the bible started to be mass produced, "news" followed. Back then, only the rich knew how to read.

If you want to believe there is a "liberal media", have at it. I see ideology in the media as as just selling point for profitability. There is no more Journalistic integrity left.
Hmmmm... there is media.. some more "liberal" or left of centre than others. Mostly tho it is anything but that.. mostly it is there to ensure the status quo is held because it is owned by those in whose interest it is that state of affairs continues... and usually that is those people of a more conservative leaning.. here of course we have Auntie Beeb which doesn't haff get the government's knickers in a twist.. and governments of all persuasions.. it is in the charter of the BBC that it is impartial and it is.. up to a point..it is no mouthpiece for government whatever the world outside thinks.. but sometimes BBC impartiality is jeopardised by Government pressure or because the governors decide to interfere for one reason or t'other..

...and we have Channel4.. news/current affairs wise, the best broadcaster in the UK, like the BBC owned by the public and independent of government but in its case paid for not by the licence fee, but like other commercial broadcasters, advertising revenue and other commercial activities.. investigative journalism in the UK such as it is, is best done by Channel 4 when it comes to telly but Auntie does its share, if far less than was once the case.. such as is done by independently owned broadcasters is more of the "populist" kind done by the popular press... it is also the broadcaster least likely to buckle from external pressure from wherever it comes..

This brings me to me favourite daily read.. the Guardian...and its Sunday stablemate, The Observer. They lose 30-50 million odd quid a year (as indeed does the Times, but it is owned by Murdoch.. 'nuff said) and these losses are made good by other publications of the group.. once it was an independent trust..liberal and left leaning.. the trust has gone and it is now owned by the same trust only it is now a limited company, but since the demise of the trust, it remains true to its historical ethos and spirit... together with the independent, if there is any investigative journalism done in the daily press worth a damn, it is there it will come from... the phone hacking scandal being a case in point...without the Guardian group, the current stink about the Murdoch press, phone hacking and the tawdriness of British political life would never have happened.. I still have a soft spot for the Independent... even although it had to be rescued by a Russian billionaire, it too hasn't changed very much.. but I am far more reluctant to accord it any affection and trust as I do the Guardian.. I am always suspicious when billionaires own media groups...

So Joan, I don't agree with u entirely, although do see where u are coming from and why u say what u say.. I entirely agree that even in my lifetime, investigative journalism is much less than once was the case.. but it does exist if on a slimmed down scale than a few decades ago, and often, certainly when it comes to the popular press it is for sensation rather than the public good or to discredit the tabloid owners pet hate...very often anyone and anything who may threaten the status quo and his personal and his clique's wealth and power..... but not always.. in the UK at least there remains a liberalism in the media.. imperfect certainly.. Channel4 especially, followed behind by some distance the BBC do their bit in ensuring that there is at least some left in our society simply by asserting the independence given them by charter and statute, and without them I think the UK would be a much less liberal and far more conservative place than it is. There are even rules on Independent broadcasters which have helped in this regard. When it comes to newspapers, I have said how it is as I see it... in the UK the Guardian ensure that there is a liberal presence, the Indy too even allowing for my worries on that score... but these two newspapapers make up a small liberal or "liberal" media of the written word.. most are either tabloid right wing hysterical pap and dross (and I include the so called left of centre Mirror Group) or heavy tycoon influenced qualities such as the Times or Telegraph (Not popularly known as "The Torygraph" for nothing)...

This may sound as if I share falcon's view more than your own.. not so.. but I recognise the reality as it exists in me own lil heap.. and broad statements are rarely accurate assessments of any situation.. falcon's view bears no relation to the reality of the media and if I sound more in tune with what he says I am not.. because for all the fact that your statement is broad and sweeping, even in the UK now, and allowing for what I have said earlier, your view is somewhat more accurate than his... it isn't contradiction.. just in my opinion a more sober and realistic assessment of how it is.....

[void()]

And honestly, Romney is right, we do have safety nets. Unemployment compensation, WIC, Food Stamps, Social Security Disability, Medicaid, Medicare, Grants to help single moms go back to college and get a marketable degree, Private Charities. Those seem like some pretty good safety nets to me. Oh. I forgot there are also programs to help the poor get reduced or free electricity, phones, and cell phones.

My unemployment extensions ran out two weeks ago. My wife recently got a letter saying we are eligible for around $X per month from SNAP. (Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program) She is also in the process of filing me out for disability, as some of the issues in my noggin do cause trouble holding jobs, I misread things people say.

You give me a compliment, "good work on project A, buddy." I immediately tail spin into a pit of self doubt, "okay, what am I screwing up? How can I make project A better? What happens if C interferes with A? Do we have a fourth contingency plan?" That's just one example. Another is that 'work' consumes me and I let emotions of frustration ruin it, get pissed when others aren't doing high quality like me or vise versa.

And while not a single mom, I'm also looking toward finding a means to attain a marketable skill. It used to be if you graduated high school that could be enough. Now, everyone wants a degree before you can even clean the toilets. WTF?! At 40, it's kind of 'real fun' to attempt going from blue collar manual labor to white collar, something. Not really sure I'll be able either.

Wife's brother in law is taking college course for network admin. It is not the same exact field I'm looking into, but quite similar enough to call it 'same difference'. He provided me a link to some of the lectures by one of his professors, as media files. I am listening to them and going off to sleep. I can not learn from someone droning on and on, offering me no practical examples.

Of course, I've never worked in the 'office culture' either. That means I have no idea what practical examples would be. I'm thinking, "okay, how do I make a program to automate feeding livestock? Is there a way to monitor electric fence line, as in being aware of threat levels? An easier way to drill a water well? Some way to harness wind power to incorporate into sheering lambs? Will this process chickens faster? Can I use technology to overcome my own disabilities or shortcomings and if so, how?"

I'm coming from a different world actually into another. In one you need solutions for problems grounded in practicality, realism. In the other you find solutions for abstracts and ideals. Not sure I can figure out how to fuse the two worlds, or that even if such a thing is feasible and doable. Probably the old mule dirt farmer mentality in me saying, "sure great, it makes pretty pictures, can it weld my tractor scoop together or cut the hay?"

On the flip side of it, I'm also human and we like having some bit of entertainment. With someone being a drone, it's all the same roar which seems pointless, I'm lost to a video game about farming. And while I realize that a person does not want a fantasy game to mirror life, work, somehow it seems quaint and enjoyable in the format of this video game. Really at a lose to explain why I like it.

Then, I have issues with perceiving things. Maybe I'm not seeing the droning non-teaching lectures as beneficial but evil, when in fact they are beneficial because you get a piece of high dollar toilet paper saying you put up with feces, and people like that. And I really don't understand how that is an "educational system".

*shrugs*

My point being, these safety nets are not a fun place to be trapped in. And yes, they're a trap.
They suck away your dreams. I no longer really dream of me and my wife ever having a home for ourselves. We're stuck, we'll live with parents all our lives I figure. We did have ten years on our own here in WV. Survived a week without electricity, too. So, I know we can do it.

But I no longer have any big dreams or hopes. Love my wife and boyfriend. That's all the hapiness I get, aside from a twinky video game about farming. Yeehaw, gotta love our safety nets.

[darkeyes]

Safety nets are anything but a good place to be Voidie.. that they are necessary is unquestionable, but good? Ask those who are caught up in them trying to survive... tell them that they are a good place to be and u will be left without name.. they keep people in poverty, suffering less good health than those who are not caught up in them, die earlier, have infinitely worse lifestyles and far greater struggle just to make ends meet than those who are not in them...they are looked down on as parasites and wasters by many.. and charities falcon? How fucking demeaning to rely on charity to survive..

I hate charities.. charities disguise many of the true structural difficulties of our societies and they too do little if anything to end them... it isn't in their interests to end them... if charities didn't exist we would soon see just how unfair and how bad our societies are.. Governments love them cos they mean Governments don't have to do anything.. or much less than they should.. people love them because it makes them feel good but few think of what they do... the rich love them because it stops people from asking awkward questions and really getting worked up about their parasitical activities.. a little tax relief here and a little grant there to charities, Government's conscience is cleared when the reality is that that few million grant or tax relief is but a contribution to stop the visible surface of the iceberg from melting, not just the tip... people's conscience is cleared because a few quid donation will save the world won't it? Charities are a part of the bulwark which keeps the system from collapsing no more...

Good safety nets falcon? I think not...

[falcondfw]

Just because I dislike intensely political muck raking doesn't mean you and I are beginning to agree on politics... I remain the same person I was before I uttered a word about the Romney allegations... one who would not, even if if she could, vote for the bigoted, hypocritical, privileged, right wing slimeball even at the point of a gun... he may or may not have been an little shit when he was young.. but in everything he stands for and believes now.. he most assuredly has matured into one... he is anathema to everything I believe in and have ever said.. and it is that altar upon which he stands condemned..

I was teasing, Fran dear. But I do agree with you that there needs to be some investigation done before unfounded allegations are published - on both sides of the journalistic and political spectrum.

[falcondfw]

My unemployment extensions ran out two weeks ago. My wife recently got a letter saying we are eligible for around $X per month from SNAP. (Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program) She is also in the process of filing me out for disability, as some of the issues in my noggin do cause trouble holding jobs, I misread things people say.

You give me a compliment, "good work on project A, buddy." I immediately tail spin into a pit of self doubt, "okay, what am I screwing up? How can I make project A better? What happens if C interferes with A? Do we have a fourth contingency plan?" That's just one example. Another is that 'work' consumes me and I let emotions of frustration ruin it, get pissed when others aren't doing high quality like me or vise versa.

And while not a single mom, I'm also looking toward finding a means to attain a marketable skill. It used to be if you graduated high school that could be enough. Now, everyone wants a degree before you can even clean the toilets. WTF?! At 40, it's kind of 'real fun' to attempt going from blue collar manual labor to white collar, something. Not really sure I'll be able either.

Wife's brother in law is taking college course for network admin. It is not the same exact field I'm looking into, but quite similar enough to call it 'same difference'. He provided me a link to some of the lectures by one of his professors, as media files. I am listening to them and going off to sleep. I can not learn from someone droning on and on, offering me no practical examples.

Of course, I've never worked in the 'office culture' either. That means I have no idea what practical examples would be. I'm thinking, "okay, how do I make a program to automate feeding livestock? Is there a way to monitor electric fence line, as in being aware of threat levels? An easier way to drill a water well? Some way to harness wind power to incorporate into sheering lambs? Will this process chickens faster? Can I use technology to overcome my own disabilities or shortcomings and if so, how?"

I'm coming from a different world actually into another. In one you need solutions for problems grounded in practicality, realism. In the other you find solutions for abstracts and ideals. Not sure I can figure out how to fuse the two worlds, or that even if such a thing is feasible and doable. Probably the old mule dirt farmer mentality in me saying, "sure great, it makes pretty pictures, can it weld my tractor scoop together or cut the hay?"

On the flip side of it, I'm also human and we like having some bit of entertainment. With someone being a drone, it's all the same roar which seems pointless, I'm lost to a video game about farming. And while I realize that a person does not want a fantasy game to mirror life, work, somehow it seems quaint and enjoyable in the format of this video game. Really at a lose to explain why I like it.

Then, I have issues with perceiving things. Maybe I'm not seeing the droning non-teaching lectures as beneficial but evil, when in fact they are beneficial because you get a piece of high dollar toilet paper saying you put up with feces, and people like that. And I really don't understand how that is an "educational system".

*shrugs*

My point being, these safety nets are not a fun place to be trapped in. And yes, they're a trap.
They suck away your dreams. I no longer really dream of me and my wife ever having a home for ourselves. We're stuck, we'll live with parents all our lives I figure. We did have ten years on our own here in WV. Survived a week without electricity, too. So, I know we can do it.

But I no longer have any big dreams or hopes. Love my wife and boyfriend. That's all the hapiness I get, aside from a twinky video game about farming. Yeehaw, gotta love our safety nets.

Void,
I definitely agree with your statement that the safety nets can be "dream killers". They are difficult to make ends meet. I am on unemployment myself right now. Hopefully, not for much longer. In my line of work, I will work a 6 month contract and then spend a couple months on unemployment while looking for my next contract. This has been the pattern for the last 5 years and it sucks.
However, the safety nets are only dream killers if you let them be. You have to stay strong and focused on your goals.
I don't know what you are going to school for, but I am a web programmer, before that, I was a regular programmer. If you think I can help, let me know. I have a ton of resources that I can give you if programming is your topic.

[falcondfw]

Safety nets are anything but a good place to be Voidie.. that they are necessary is unquestionable, but good? Ask those who are caught up in them trying to survive... tell them that they are a good place to be and u will be left without name.. they keep people in poverty, suffering less good health than those who are not caught up in them, die earlier, have infinitely worse lifestyles and far greater struggle just to make ends meet than those who are not in them...they are looked down on as parasites and wasters by many.. and charities falcon? How fucking demeaning to rely on charity to survive..

I hate charities.. charities disguise many of the true structural difficulties of our societies and they too do little if anything to end them... it isn't in their interests to end them... if charities didn't exist we would soon see just how unfair and how bad our societies are.. Governments love them cos they mean Governments don't have to do anything.. or much less than they should.. people love them because it makes them feel good but few think of what they do... the rich love them because it stops people from asking awkward questions and really getting worked up about their parasitical activities.. a little tax relief here and a little grant there to charities, Government's conscience is cleared when the reality is that that few million grant or tax relief is but a contribution to stop the visible surface of the iceberg from melting, not just the tip... people's conscience is cleared because a few quid donation will save the world won't it? Charities are a part of the bulwark which keeps the system from collapsing no more...

Good safety nets falcon? I think not...

Fran,
Having to rely on charities IS demeaning. Very demeaning. But, hopefully, they are only needed as temporary stop gaps and those using them will soon get back on their feet and not need them anymore.
This economy is a totally different situation. People are out of work for very long stretches of time and the stop gaps become not so temporary.
As for your second paragraph, would you really want "the system" to collapse more? I think that would be far more painful.
And I did not say that safety nets were good, just that we have them and, except for social security disability, they are designed to provide temporary help until the person can get back on their feet. I do consider it good that some people won't go hungry tonight because of these programs.

[darkeyes]

Fran,

As for your second paragraph, would you really want "the system" to collapse more? I think that would be far more painful.

Well actually yes... because we need root and branch change in the ways of our world and sweeping away all that we now know and understand as "the sytem"... more painful maybe..but necessary.. I may believe in democratic change and democracy with a passion, but I very much doubt if what I see as democratic change and democracy means quite the same thing to me as thee.. and neither does it prevent me not simply from being a socialist but one who is a revolutionary socialist... don't let my pacifism and respect for life fool u... I will never harm another living person and neither would I ever approve another doing it for any reason whatsoever.. and that is not a contradiction... simply a less than common view, but not one which is unknown..

[æonpax]

Hmmmm... there is media.. some more "liberal" or left of centre than others. {snipped for brevity}

Fran,

You speak of the UK press for which outside of the BBC, I have no interest in and have always been rather unimpressed with. It was Rupert Murdoch who popularized and implanted “tabloid” style journalism into the mainstream media, first in the UK and then, the US with it’s infamous faux news. It’s all style over substance. Sound bites of news, all condensed, packaged and editorialized specifically for a targeted audience. If it titillates, it's news. In the US, it’s the conservatives but could have just as easily been the liberals except for the educational factor.

The saving grace is the internet. People no longer are slaves to a single newspaper or media outlet. There are literally tens of thousands of news outlets online and hundreds of thousands of citizen blogs gathering and releasing news that the mainstream cannot but more importantly, will not cover. The advent of cam phones, digital cameras and other emerging technology has revolutionized conventional and video news gathering often capturing “as it happened” events that could not nor would ever be played. Incidents such as police brutality, war and crime are now instantaneously available, without censorship or editorial comment.

In a manner of speaking, all of this is moot. In the US, newspapers, magazines and other pulp media are folding. Traditional books are giving way to e-books in their myriad of formats. Even when I was in college for this, they constantly stressed how technology will change the face of Journalism.

There is a caveat though, corporate control has arguably reduced traditional journalism to it’s present state of being mindless entertainment being spoon fed to a dumbed down public. Those fighting internet control by the governments and corporations (like me) continue to see an uphill battle. Unless we are vigilant, this era too, shall pass.

[darkeyes]

Fran,

You speak of the UK press for which outside of the BBC, I have no interest in and have always been rather unimpressed with. It was Rupert Murdoch who popularized and implanted “tabloid” style journalism into the mainstream media, first in the UK and then, the US with it’s infamous faux news. It’s all style over substance. Sound bites of news, all condensed, packaged and editorialized specifically for a targeted audience. If it titillates, it's news. In the US, it’s the conservatives but could have just as easily been the liberals except for the educational factor.

The saving grace is the internet. People no longer are slaves to a single newspaper or media outlet. There are literally tens of thousands of news outlets online and hundreds of thousands of citizen blogs gathering and releasing news that the mainstream cannot but more importantly, will not cover. The advent of cam phones, digital cameras and other emerging technology has revolutionized conventional and video news gathering often capturing “as it happened” events that could not nor would ever be played. Incidents such as police brutality, war and crime are now instantaneously available, without censorship or editorial comment.

In a manner of speaking, all of this is moot. In the US, newspapers, magazines and other pulp media are folding. Traditional books are giving way to e-books in their myriad of formats. Even when I was in college for this, they constantly stressed how technology will change the face of Journalism.

There is a caveat though, corporate control has arguably reduced traditional journalism to it’s present state of being mindless entertainment being spoon fed to a dumbed down public. Those fighting internet control by the governments and corporations (like me) continue to see an uphill battle. Unless we are vigilant, this era too, shall pass.
Take it from me.. I am rather unimpressed with UK media as a whole too.. and from what I've seen of the US, Russia, Australia, France, Germany and just about anywhere u care to mention I'm pretty unimpressed with them even more.. I have an interest in media everywhere unlike u... we all should have because the worst that is out there in one country is soon picked up by others..and that is something we should all be concerned with..

.. about the net? With that I am with u 100%...

[æonpax]

`
PS Fran..... Happy Mothers Day! I'm already having one....
`

http://i.imgur.com/v8fbn.jpg

[void()]

Fran,
Having to rely on charities IS demeaning. Very demeaning. But, hopefully, they are only needed as temporary stop gaps and those using them will soon get back on their feet and not need them anymore.
This economy is a totally different situation. People are out of work for very long stretches of time and the stop gaps become not so temporary.
As for your second paragraph, would you really want "the system" to collapse more? I think that would be far more painful.
And I did not say that safety nets were good, just that we have them and, except for social security disability, they are designed to provide temporary help until the person can get back on their feet. I do consider it good that some people won't go hungry tonight because of these programs.

Yeah, well I have never cleared more than $13,000 a year, which happens to be the minimum for being considered in poverty. Me and wife together would be lucky to see $17,000 annually, both working jobs designed to give each $13,000 annually. I know that I have trouble with math but that just doesn't seem to figure correctly, and yeah, I let her do it, we let someone else do the figures too. We still only clear 17k. Makes brilliant sense to us And we can make do on 11k, but it just is surviving. extra 6k ... gone, something called in the mail for a Mr. Bill.

And the wife has an Associates which looms a $70k+ debt over our heads. Don't need college education to know that if you can't afford food, you ain't needing schooling. Or rather, don't need college to see it creates more debt, more slavery. Good point about temporary. Wish I could get beyond temporary, been here most of my life. But it is what it is.

I was thinking of doing the route of Linux system admin, falcon. Like I said though, not sure I could handle actually getting the education apparently required for it. And yeah, I had learning disabilities classes all through school. Not all of it is emotional problems, i have lots of trouble with math. Can follow along while talking about a problem, turn to put it on paper or apply it, it's gone. Not sure where it goes or why, just vanishes and I freeze, unable to do math. Wife says I can do math but not timed drills. And I can, if given lots of time.

Considering my mum all but told me I'm dead to her, not really to arsed to say happy mommy's day.

[darkeyes]

`
PS Fran..... Happy Mothers Day! I'm already having one....
`

http://i.imgur.com/v8fbn.jpg


Happy Mum's day Joan.. hope its brill.. and Happy Mum's day 2 every mum... isn't mum's day here tho.. we had it in March.. an' just cos the wee bees got us each a nice pressie. they seemed 2 think they cud get away wiv murder an handin' out lotsa lip!:yikes2: Am as gud as they come wen it comes 2 handin' out stick... an they gorrit back in spades!!:tongue: *laffs* Enjoy. babes!!

[elian]

How much more clear can a person be than saying flat out, "I support same sex marriage" ? People aren't allowed to change their mind after weighing the evidence and gaining experience?

The last "leader" who left us kept the current president a little busy in his first term with a war on two fronts, an economy about to tank..

Am I a slave to the system? Even if we both decided that we don't want to play by the rules, other people do and the laws they create effect all people's lives in a very real way, yes - even people in other countries. What I do today as a single individual is going to affect people I don't know in ways I can't even predict - that's just the nature of living in a universe that is always connected.

I have decided to continue to be happy. Even if he's not sincere about it, those words are going to change the world.

[wanderingrichard]

Vote pandering, pure and simple. We have more pressing issues to worry about, as has been stated. and yes i support my right to marry my partner, be they male, female, trans or otherswise. DOMA is a farce foisted on a public that has been entrapped by a lie created by a governing body that forgets there is a separation of church and state built into our constitution. time to remind them of this.

Stange thing though. Here, he's stood up and says he supports same sex marriage, 15th to 18th most important item on every recent poll conducted by both MSM and polling houses [i wonder just who these people call? i never get asked, can't recall ever picking up the phone or being approached by someone considering the matter]... yet by doing so he's alienating himself overseas to the many governments who detest the very thought of the idea...governments who actually wanted him in office.

is it any wonder our country is looked at as unreliable outside our own borders? we can't trust our elected officials to have a straight and true answer or stance, goddess knows other countries should trust us as nation to keep our word?

And, how the hell did we ever allow ourselves as a race to become so politicised on such a basic human right?

[falcondfw]

Yeah, well I have never cleared more than $13,000 a year, which happens to be the minimum for being considered in poverty. Me and wife together would be lucky to see $17,000 annually, both working jobs designed to give each $13,000 annually. I know that I have trouble with math but that just doesn't seem to figure correctly, and yeah, I let her do it, we let someone else do the figures too. We still only clear 17k. Makes brilliant sense to us And we can make do on 11k, but it just is surviving. extra 6k ... gone, something called in the mail for a Mr. Bill.

And the wife has an Associates which looms a $70k+ debt over our heads. Don't need college education to know that if you can't afford food, you ain't needing schooling. Or rather, don't need college to see it creates more debt, more slavery. Good point about temporary. Wish I could get beyond temporary, been here most of my life. But it is what it is.

I was thinking of doing the route of Linux system admin, falcon. Like I said though, not sure I could handle actually getting the education apparently required for it. And yeah, I had learning disabilities classes all through school. Not all of it is emotional problems, i have lots of trouble with math. Can follow along while talking about a problem, turn to put it on paper or apply it, it's gone. Not sure where it goes or why, just vanishes and I freeze, unable to do math. Wife says I can do math but not timed drills. And I can, if given lots of time.

Considering my mum all but told me I'm dead to her, not really to arsed to say happy mommy's day.

Void,
Are you talking about your RHCE or your NCLA? The RHCE would be better for getting a job in corporate America. Very few companies use any Noivell products any more. But to be honest, even the RHCE might not help as much as you think. Although Linux is more popular today, very few companies run Linux machines. If I was going to get a certification in systems admin, it would be a Microshaft certification.

[void()]

Void,
Are you talking about your RHCE or your NCLA? The RHCE would be better for getting a job in corporate America. Very few companies use any Noivell products any more. But to be honest, even the RHCE might not help as much as you think. Although Linux is more popular today, very few companies run Linux machines. If I was going to get a certification in systems admin, it would be a Microshaft certification.

I was actually hoping to avoid RHCE or NCLA and do it via distribution independent LPI (Linux Professional International) by way of basic GNU/Linux. I run Debian here at home. Have used Centos which is basically RH in disguise, and some Fedora which is the same. Prefer Debian or Ubuntu. And yeah, as you say many use Microslavery erm Microsoft stuff. I've not used Windows or any Microsoft products for about six years now, save for a program on a Windows computer that read RFID chips for a Ez-pass type of thing we were carding up for shipping at the job spot for disable folks back in VA. Even then I did not really desire doing it, Microsoft, *shudder* yuck, eeek, me scared.

[falcondfw]

I was actually hoping to avoid RHCE or NCLA and do it via distribution independent LPI (Linux Professional International) by way of basic GNU/Linux. I run Debian here at home. Have used Centos which is basically RH in disguise, and some Fedora which is the same. Prefer Debian or Ubuntu. And yeah, as you say many use Microslavery erm Microsoft stuff. I've not used Windows or any Microsoft products for about six years now, save for a program on a Windows computer that read RFID chips for a Ez-pass type of thing we were carding up for shipping at the job spot for disable folks back in VA. Even then I did not really desire doing it, Microsoft, *shudder* yuck, eeek, me scared.

lol.
you may be scared, but you funny too.
I am not a fan of the M word either, but honestly, I like to cook and eat.
I run dual boot Windows 7 and Linux Mint 12 at home. I love it.
Actually, a lot of the companies that do embedded work do use Linux, but they might have one LPI in the whole company because they don't do anything fancy with it. Now if you can program a microcontroller in C, C++, or Java, that would be a career for you that WILL feed the bulldog.

[elian]

Get it right, that's "Microsloth Windoze" - and yes, I haven't used Windows at home in years, but most corporate environments use it and it helps to pay the bills. What else can I tell you, the President said that he supports same sex marriage, I got to visit my grandma in Florida and I came out to my mom and she accepted it all within the past five days - in all it's been a pretty good week compared to some.

[void()]

"Oh wow, man." Guess I'll get back to learning the C then. Started to pick it up a bit, didn't have any thing to actually program, i.e. make a program to solve this problem.

And double wow oh for my baby telling his mom. :yikes2::thumbu:

[falcondfw]

"Oh wow, man." Guess I'll get back to learning the C then. Started to pick it up a bit, didn't have any thing to actually program, i.e. make a program to solve this problem.

And double wow oh for my baby telling his mom. :yikes2::thumbu:

C is a good place to start, but once you get the basics down, I would move on to C++ or Java. If you can do C++, you can read and understand C. Most of the embedded device makers that used to use C are moving towards C++ and Object Oriented development. I have been on several projects recently that were exactly that - converting legacy C code to C++.
And Java, with J2ME, is gaining some popularity. The good thing is, once you get the foundation of C, and understand C++, you won't have too much trouble moving to Java. C++ and Java are very similar. They are both Object Oriented languages. One of the hot jobs right now is programming for Android devices. That is done in Java.

[darkeyes]

Right guys.. it's like this.. Fran has no real objection 2 peeps deviating from a thread... should have.. but don't.. long as it's interestin' an it dusn't do me head in... an if it's fun helps... but the telly is reportin'; a huge increase in suicide 'mong gay bi an transpeeps an a few str8 peeps all around the planet an' they all have 1 thing in common... suicide notes sayin' they can't take ne more brain damage an funnily enuff.. the names Void an falcon are in every single 1 allied 2 the words "No more..can't take ne more... aaaaarghhhhh." U don't wanna do Fran's head in? Fine.. get a room.. ya don't wanna b responsible for more suicides.. gr8.. gerra room.. ya wanna carry on yapping bout dross. Fine wiv me.. but gerra room!! An wenya dus.. Fran will then return 2 bein 'er usual all sweetness an lite self... now sit down in corner... shove big pointie hat wiv a D on it onya nappers.. stick dummy in gobs, pick up pen an paper and write 500 times by freehand "Forgive me Fran, for I know not what I did and and promise to behave myself and never, ever to do your bonce in ever again!!!!!". Now I do hope u remember what writing freehand is... I know it's unlikely, and if u do doubtful that u do much of it, but try.. doesn't have to be neat... just needs to be done!! :impleased

[falcondfw]

Fran,
I wasn't trying to hijack the thread. I was trying to help someone out who needed it. I probably should have used pm. I apologize for not thinking of it before now.

[void()]

void breaks out his ancient 100 penciled mechanical hand, begins writing. Sorry, Fran. Forgot talking about bobbins and bits in public isn't quite skosh or even posh. void secretly phones Mum, has her arrange a special girls only party in Fran's favor, makes sure Mum understands nubile and nakey clean girls :bigrin:, hundreds of them.

[darkeyes]

void breaks out his ancient 100 penciled mechanical hand, begins writing. Sorry, Fran. Forgot talking about bobbins and bits in public isn't quite skosh or even posh. void secretly phones Mum, has her arrange a special girls only party in Fran's favor, makes sure Mum understands nubile and nakey clean girls :bigrin:, hundreds of them."Confiscates writin' machine..." 1000 lines by hand.. one pen Voidie...

*Reads on* Nubile nakey girls? Returns writin' machine... cuts Voidies punishment 2 100 lines... God I'm easily won over... tee hee

[AdamKadmon43]

​Why do I ever even bother coming back in here and reading any of this....