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The Young Pretender
May 11, 2012, 5:06 PM
The preceding months have been a whirlwind of thoughts and considerations. Without going into considerable detail, my mother's illness and death more or less forced me to acknowledge the completeness of my sexuality, not just the culturally sanctioned hetero part. I was under too much stress to maintain the suppression. That was several months ago. While my conceptions of home, life, and family were reconstituted in the wake of her death, my sexuality took a backseat and straight me emerged until Christmas. Since then, it has been a consistent part of my life. At the moment, I am in my last 2 weeks of uni (I leave Scotland 2 weeks from...today). Oh, I am a New Yorker by birth.

St Andrews has been an interesting place, but very small, with only 8,000 (staff & students). The good part? You know everyone. The bad part? You know everyone. I rushed into something and met a fellow, but he wasn't clicking with me. Too effeminate, too left wing, the spark wasn't firing and so on. The other problem was being outed. His housemate was a friend of mine! His bisexual best friend was a gossip-monger (and acquaintance of mine) who spread the word. Those who came to know were friends of mine (including my token gay friend: TGF), but miraculously all were outside of any of my core friend circles. Yes, I know, discretion and hiding brings its own problems, but I firmly believe that we as members of the LGBT community (ha!) have the right come out at our own pace. Being outed by a Danish bisexual who is politically active for LGBT rights is rather...umheimlich - a German word that simultaneously describes "uncanny, unsettling, and incredible" at the same time.

TGF was ecstatic, which is annoying. Unsurprisingly, my watching other men had set off his gaydar years ago. My family inculcated me with the norm that staring at women is rude, so when I catch sight of an attractive woman, I look away awkwardly, even to this day (though I've gotten much better...or worse, with me leering in recent months). That doesn't happen with men. ;) TGF also decided to offer me his tips on m-m sex. No, there were no demonstrations. On many levels, he is utterly repulsive. I was never a fan of anal sex and his litany of anal-trysts going back to age 10 (all consensual, but he would be a great case study as to why early sexual debut is psychologically problematic) made me born-again anti-anal! Shortly after that conversation, I broke it off with the fellow. Simultaneously, my "homosexual" inclinations plummeted to nothing, and I was left questioning again. I hate(d) that stage, as many "questioning" people are seemingly 4 years younger than me. And here I am, back again, although I wonder just how "bi" I am if I am rather sexually limited in the men's department.

I have been pondering many things, chiefly the value of "coming out", its implications for me, the LGBT scene, and how all of this will impact my future. They're of particularly pressing relevance as I've been given a "second chance" to fully live the college experience, as I'll be going to grad school in Australia (35,000+ people), probably as far as humanly possible from old family and friends. Oh, and also, some of the hottest people on the planet (think of a young Australian undergrad lad with a rugged-as-the-outback body with a shock of blonde hair, blue eyes, and the curiosity of a whole herd of curious cats...or a carefree, beach-perfect surfer-girl...also with blonde hair). This is where the coming out question comes in. The chief reason I didn't was how it would alter friendships. Yea, yea, TGF gave me the usual BS spiel of "well, if they leave/trouble you/etc, they were never really your friends." TGF is difficult to be friends with, as he makes moves on all of his male friends at one point or another. In many ways beside this, he is a living stereotype and damages the LGBT rapport with the straight world. I am fairly conservative (in matters of money and international politics, but uninhibited socially, which ironically makes me a 'classical liberal"). Virtually all of my friends, by virtue of chance, my college's population etc are also conservative in some fashion. The lack of LGBT friends speaks volumes, as does the "dinner table" LGBT-phobia. My core friends have come through when it was most important, but I don't see the value in not just rocking the boat, but risking a scuttling due to the perceived implication of being a "fag."

You guys/bisexual.com offer interesting perspectives on this matter. On other forums such as emptyclosets and justusboys (with the latter, I found their forum through a google keyword search. I was unaware until this morning that it was actually a gay porn repository), the gay community there is rather militant about coming out ASAP for everyone. I have found phraseology that calls coming out integral to being a "functioning American gay." There were some ugly terms bandied about for anyone not "out, loud, and proud" on justusboys. I have not found this norm on bisexual.com. Many of you seem to practice my "goal" for Australia - the matter does not come up unless asked or is directly relevant to the other person, because quite frankly, who occupies our beds is nobody's damn business! If you're wondering, I am just as "bad" with women. I prefer my doings to not be gossip, as it turns the experience classless and sordid IMO (unless I want them to be so ;)).

Nonetheless, I am still apprehensive. The circles I will probably end up in as a consequence of my activities and personality will be the more traditionally masculine (the business/investing/entrepreneur club, martial arts/contact sports, gym, international political-themed organisations etc). Actually, not "more traditionally masculine" but VERY. "Masculine" is just who I am, from the classic, loose boxer shorts I love (I swear, the right pair of underwear is the first step in starting the day off right, hehe), to my politics, to my books, etc. Being "queer" does not help in such circles, although if the non-fiction reminiscing I have read is true, it can lead to some very handsome MEN.* I've been made somewhat gunshy by my encounters with the LGBT scene of St Andrews and from what little I have seen back home. "Gay culture" as I've witnessed it in person favours salacious shock value (think HBO adding in non-canonical, gratuitous, and ultimately pointless sex to Game of Thrones), ideological-foot-soldier partisan leftism (hell, I hold leftist values, but it's the flavour of the month causes and "ideological foot soldier" part that bother me), effeminacy, and so on. Dare I say that "gay culture" is a self-reinforcing stereotype? I've met too many affected accents, make-up, skin tight jeans, piercings, "alternatives", mannerisms, taste to believe that such things are hardcoded in gays. Powerful norms and influences seem to make their mark. Maybe it gets better when they find their own way? Why am I obsessing on gays? They're the most likely male partner for a bisexual man. They're also the pillar of the LGBT soc in a typical university (although exec power in mine switched between lesbians and gays). St Andrews' LGBT currently is currently run by lesbians. Dances/club nights were described by a bi girl as "lesbian couples showing their partners off". Also, the club has a strong biphobic strain.

*My ideal male partner is a man who friggin went through puberty, has a masculine voice, wears boxers (I'll make occasional concessions for boxer-briefs), and at least visits the gym. Said partner would be brother, friend, lover...in that order. Yes, I value the platonic more than the sexual in a man. Feminism actually has some interesting thoughts on that last point.

Disclaimer: My generalizations chiefly come from observations of a small university community and apply t that community and analogous situations. They were not meant to be universal.

I am sorry for this absolute mess of a thread, but I am processing a great deal as I reflect on one life-changing stage and prepare for another. I am very interested in your thoughts, though.

darkeyes
May 11, 2012, 6:09 PM
I know St Andrews pretty well, Pretender hun... me partner was raised in Perth until she was 13 and still has family there we visit and I have relatives around Cupar (even closer) and me dad was a hardy Fifer.. St Andrews I have always found an ok place if a bit dull.. never found it much cop for the gay life tho... once.. thats all and that was by chance.. times change I spose.. even tho u seem to have had a hard an a bit depressing seems to me to be a whole lot better than when I had nights out in St Andrews... plenty guys for me.. that was fun.. but girls were a bit short on the ground.. but we are talking a decade ago and more... 1ce ran naked along the beach for a dare chased by half a dozen loony guys.. I was given 50 metre start and only just made it to me m8s car b4 I was put 2 the swords so 2 speak... s'ok.. the poor swordsmen had 2 just slink away moping... me m8 and I sat locked in car grinning like Cheshire cats wiv the doors well locked!!!!

I spose ur experience is not that atypical in 1 sense.. me own uni had its share of people like u describe but big city uni (big for Scotland ne way)..but far more variation... different kind of people I suppose and there was far more to the city than just the uni lgbt soc.. so it was never any prob getting out and about and finding more than just the uni gay/bi peeps.. still isn't... how u describe St Andrews reflects to a great degree how Edinburgh was when I began the hi life.. sorry hi bi life back in 1994... much less general tolerance then but it wasn't so hard.. not for girls anyway.. guys? Well it's still harder for them, but in general no one bothers too much about gay guys.. bi? Different matter... the societal humph about bi guys remains in the main, and while there are still gay guys (and girls) who share that humph for very different reasons which u will know only too well, these are far far less than was the case when I was a young girl.. even str8 society is slowly coming to terms with it albeit somewhat reluctantly... in fact when I was a young girl no one I knew even knew ne bi guys.. now at least their heads are above the parapets and more open within the lgbt at least if not as open as they should be able to be..

I don't think really that u have seen the best of Scottish gay/bi society.. certainly not UK gay/bi society... and that's a pity.. but it does move and change at different rates everywhere in every country not just here...some places are just bout as bigoted an badly informed as they ever were and have the same ole myths and legends bout gay and bi peeps.. but urban areas move that bit more quickly...and things are changing at a rate of knots... I hope when.. if u ever return that u find this lil country of mine isn't as bad as the impression u have gone away with.. parts are an' no mistake.. but not all... by no means all...

Finally, and most importantly.. I am truly sorry about ur mum... I feel for u more than I can say cos my own dad died just a couple of months ago... the end of the life of one so dear brings so much into focus.. I at least never had to hide my sexuality from my dad and so have not had to suppress as did u... but the new found freedom of expression that the loss of ur mum has brought? I truly hope it brings u nothing but the joy and happiness you deserve wherever you decide to put down roots..

Gearbox
May 11, 2012, 8:07 PM
Nope! St Andrews isn't a very good example of the entire gay population, as you said.lol Your not unique, just hard to spot. Just like the gays who are hard to spot, but they are there I assure you!
I've considered getting 501's that are at least 1 size too small for me, just to say "OI! I like a bit of cock MR!", but I draw the line at a scarf when it's not even snowing and I don't have an abscess.:bigrin:
Your best bet is to join the LGBT group in Australia and hope for the best. Try not to take the activists too seriously though. Just be yourself!

Sorry about your mum. I'm guessing that kicked in some self honesty about needing a partner, and who/what you'd prefer it to be. Not a great time to admit that your not the island you thought you were, and I really hope some good comes of that realisation.
Take Australia as the opportunity it IS, live it as you see fit and find a companion.
Good luck!;)

The Young Pretender
May 12, 2012, 4:31 PM
Somehow, I expected you two to respond. Darkeyes, you very much remind me of a good friend of mine. She's a kind, funny, smart young lady with a wicked sense of humour delivered with a very South London, working class accent.

University hasn't been bad. I love most of my lecturers, I have stalwart friends (I might tell one or two in the months to come), and I've done so much (most of it good). It's been a happy time, but (I don't like this big butt, and I cannot lie) from the perspective of sexuality/sexual fulfilment, that's been severely lacking. Sorry if my post was very down on my experience, but I was speaking from a sexuality perspective.

I do hear you about life for bi men, hence why I've kept it a secret (I hate the "closet" euphemism). Gays often suspect denial or focus solely on the man-loving side. In great anger one night, I explained to TGF, "I don't want a bloody man or a fucking 'daddy.' I want a confident, professional, mature woman." I dislike being painted into the "gay" corner and was in a hetero mood that night. As for the freedom of expression from mom's demise? I wanted to touch upon that, but I wanted to end the OP more. Yes, in the immediate aftermath, I did feel a freedom to manoeuvre. However, I am very close (emotionally and geographically) with the rest of my VERY CATHOLIC immediate/near-extended family on mom's side. I have seen the awkwardness that my uncle's life as a gay man has brought. Coming out with to them would literally make no one happy, except perhaps for the juiciest gossip of the century for some particularly bitchy cousins. At university, I was trapped by my own straight-jacket (har har) amongst a social circle that by accident has become 90% "east-coast-for-the-money Republicans." I didn't plan for that, but keeping that 10% of non-American friends strangely takes more effort. Then again, St Andrews is 15% American.

Gearbox: And bi's. I use gay, as they are the majority of the relevant population. I am far more interested in meeting other bi men. Not just for sex/relationships even. At my "stage 0" if you like, I am just interested in friendship and networking. This forum is literally my only connection with my own people, if you will. Just from some quick gaydar overviews (for whatever good that is worth), bi men at my age seem much more "like me" than the average gay, in terms of hobbies, interests, masculinity, what they're looking for, etc. I was struck how often I read, "I want a masculine men." "I want a best friend more than a partner." Etc etc. Not struck. Fucking shocked and a little vindicated. Even their dress in the profile photos were different. Fewer deep V-necks, briefs, and skinny jeans and much more t-shirts, cargo shorts, boxers-and-boardshorts (I was searching my future city in Australia...the men and women are...out of this world. It will be sensory overload). Also, bi guys don't use as many cock pics. Hmm.

Also, lol @ your 501's. Good thing you didn't, as you don't want women to suddenly view you as a disinterested, harmless Lhasa Apso-raising gay man. ;)

falcondfw
May 12, 2012, 4:52 PM
Somehow, I expected you two to respond. Darkeyes, you very much remind me of a good friend of mine. She's a kind, funny, smart young lady with a wicked sense of humour delivered with a very South London, working class accent.

University hasn't been bad. I love most of my lecturers, I have stalwart friends (I might tell one or two in the months to come), and I've done so much (most of it good). It's been a happy time, but (I don't like this big butt, and I cannot lie) from the perspective of sexuality/sexual fulfilment, that's been severely lacking. Sorry if my post was very down on my experience, but I was speaking from a sexuality perspective.

I do hear you about life for bi men, hence why I've kept it a secret (I hate the "closet" euphemism). Gays often suspect denial or focus solely on the man-loving side. In great anger one night, I explained to TGF, "I don't want a bloody man or a fucking 'daddy.' I want a confident, professional, mature woman." I dislike being painted into the "gay" corner and was in a hetero mood that night. As for the freedom of expression from mom's demise? I wanted to touch upon that, but I wanted to end the OP more. Yes, in the immediate aftermath, I did feel a freedom to manoeuvre. However, I am very close (emotionally and geographically) with the rest of my VERY CATHOLIC immediate/near-extended family on mom's side. I have seen the awkwardness that my uncle's life as a gay man has brought. Coming out with to them would literally make no one happy, except perhaps for the juiciest gossip of the century for some particularly bitchy cousins. At university, I was trapped by my own straight-jacket (har har) amongst a social circle that by accident has become 90% "east-coast-for-the-money Republicans." I didn't plan for that, but keeping that 10% of non-American friends strangely takes more effort. Then again, St Andrews is 15% American.

Gearbox: And bi's. I use gay, as they are the majority of the relevant population. I am far more interested in meeting other bi men. Not just for sex/relationships even. At my "stage 0" if you like, I am just interested in friendship and networking. This forum is literally my only connection with my own people, if you will. Just from some quick gaydar overviews (for whatever good that is worth), bi men at my age seem much more "like me" than the average gay, in terms of hobbies, interests, masculinity, what they're looking for, etc. I was struck how often I read, "I want a masculine men." "I want a best friend more than a partner." Etc etc. Not struck. Fucking shocked and a little vindicated. Even their dress in the profile photos were different. Fewer deep V-necks, briefs, and skinny jeans and much more t-shirts, cargo shorts, boxers-and-boardshorts (I was searching my future city in Australia...the men and women are...out of this world. It will be sensory overload). Also, bi guys don't use as many cock pics. Hmm.

Also, lol @ your 501's. Good thing you didn't, as you don't want women to suddenly view you as a disinterested, harmless Lhasa Apso-raising gay man. ;)

Young Pretender,
Both Dark and Gear have wise counsel to offer. Moving to Aussieland, eh? Sounds like a true adventure for a Yank New Yorker. lol. Don't worry, I was raised in Central MA and spent plenty of time in NYC. I'm just teasing.
But seriously, I have always wanted to visit Australia and New Zealand. The people seem so much more open than most Americans and just as friendly as most Texans. You may, indeed, wind up with sensory overload. But is that really a bad thing???? lol.
I am very sorry about your mom. Mine is 73. I honestly don't know how I will react when something happens.
My advice is there are plenty of LGBT groups in Australia. Join several and just take it slow. You are young. Very young. You have your whole life ahead of you. Do not settle for anything less than what you want or deserve. Be true to who you are and let them be true to who they are. If you click and you can both be yourselves, that is the ultimate relationship - whether it is as friends or lovers.
Good luck to you and feel free to ask advice anytime here. There are so many helpful people here.