Chasing Straight Women

[darkeyes]

You will know I am an avid Guardian reader.. I caught a little gem this morning about the joy of the dyke in chasing straight women and can easily identify with what the author had to say.. it is something I did from a very young age even if then I was no dyke.. it is something which gained me my partner and there isn't much wrong with the article.. except nowhere does she seemed to have entertained the thought that at least some of these women she has chased and talked of may have been straight but not so straight at all but bisexual.. Kate certainly was after some months of protestations that she was straight... and a number of these straight and not so straight women I have known over time may have returned to bf and even married, but a decade later there they are, qat least many of them, still on occasion teasing and getting picked up by gay and more honestly bisexual women themselves.. several friends and others have gone honest and become openly bisexual, and at least one lessie...

We have often talked of gay and lesbians who deny that bisexuality exists.. I accept that some of the women that the author talks of may have been just as she describes for sexuality is a very complex thing in human beings... but to entirely dismiss bisexuality as she does, by accident or design seems to point to her falling into the trap so many other lesbian and gay people do... that there is straight and gay and nothing in between..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/apr/20/staceyann-chin-straight-women-thrill-me?intcmp=122

and can I say this... not all straight or "straight" women are rubbish in bed.. some are.. but not all... but then I have had sex with gay women who weren't any great shakes in that regard and a few bi.. make of that what u will...

[Long Duck Dong]

it comes back to the * let people label themselves * understanding...... and she does refer to bisexuals when she says Courting the bi-curious requires the skill of restraint
so she is acknowledging that people that ID as straight, can in fact be bi curious...

the authors statement: There is a sort of informal manual for lesbian chasing not-so-straight. And the first rule is, you have to be platonic first. Girls who are not-so-straight but identify as straight – even when they admit to being attracted to women – don't want that interest to seem conscious.

it begs the question, who is denying the bisexuality.... the author who refers to the ladies as some being bi curious but doesn't label people as bisexuals in denial... or the ladies themselves that can be bisexual / bi curious and do not want that fact known........

honestly, after reading things like jobelorocks has posted about her workmates assuming that as a bisexual female, she will sleep with them and their partners...and other posts about how bisexual females can feel pressured to have sex with other females for the benefit of their partners, I can honestly not blame a lot of bisexual females for being closeted / discreet.....

btw the author also did not refer to pansexuals and omnisexuals..... are they not valid sexualities either ???

[darkeyes]

She did Duckie.. she also mentioned LGBT.. neither necessarily denotes acceptance of bisexuality... many gay people of both genders recognise the existence of bicuriosity even if they do not accept the existence of bisexuality.. it is considered by some rather like a young person who is curious about sex.. some are curious what it would be like to experiment with their own sex.. some even like it..and whereas we would consider those who enjoy it and enter bisexual lifestyle and consider themselves bisexual as bisexual.. they would consider them either charlatan straight trollops with their own agenda or confused lesbians (or gay men) who haven't yet accepted their true calling... even as one who was for most of her adult life and a great deal of her adolescence and it can be argued, fits the bill of the latter, it is not an argument I have ever accepted for everyone.. the "charlatan" and the confused exist but many, I would think most become not lesbian, but either become bisexual and return to their heterosexual inclination.. some of course return to that lifestyle but have become either lesbian or bisexual, but societal and other domestic pressures play their part as these people, men as well as women enter the world of the secret.. some play secretly, some resist and live what really they are not for whatever reason.. but they remain bisexual or lesbian..

Regarding omni or pansexuality, I have difficulty with this.. I don't deny that there are those who consider themselves such and I am quite happy that they do so.. I haven't yet come to a conclusion thats all.. the word bisexuality itself isn't quite adequate for what it is intended to describe.. but you're right, she appears to..however, that's not what is important.. it is that she seems to come down to straight/gay and nothing else...

[Long Duck Dong]

fran...

accepting that bisexuality exists is as simple as saying bisexual exists... but defining it in regards to people and their behievour is something else in itself and that is where the issue comes into it more than at any other point....

its a far better thing that she acknowledged the bi curious and lgbt as she understood it and left it at that,... than made statements about bisexuals and bisexuality that were in error and incurred the wrath of the bisexual community for *labelling * them...... or in this case, not labelling them....

you are not wrong in what you are saying, fran, but you are assuming that the author has a understanding that she may well not... and that is my simple point, we all too often assume that others understand as we do..... and yeah if I was writing the article, I would have made reference to bisexuality as in that some of the ladies may well have been bisexual ladies..... but the article was actually about the lesbian getting the straight women.... not so much about how many of the straight women were bisexuals or bisexuals in denial......

any ways, it is a interesting article about some of the mischief that the lesbian ladies get up to...... looks at fran sideways and says mmmmmm fran..lol......and the way I read it is not in a way of lesbians trying to turn straight females into lesbians.... but more of a understanding that not all hetero females are rigid heterosexuals and that it can be interesting to see just who is *secretly * curious about the pleasures of the vajaja sisterhood lol......

psstt, fran, how about sharing some of those secrets with the mere mortal brotherhood

[darkeyes]

I have no clue as to how Staceyann Chin thinks about bisexuality and have assumed nothing abouther.. she may for all I know think about things similar to myself.. why is why I use words such as "seemed" and "appears". The point I make is that her article which while a good ..one as far as it goes, misses a beat.. it ignores bisexuality because there are bisexual women who chase straight women in just the same way as lesbians women do.. I was one in my teens and at the beginning of my 20s.. after the end of my married to my husband, still considering myself bisexual, I had learned to use a women's body language as well as what she said before attempting seduction.. some did consider themselves straight but I doubt if all were.. and subsequent events have proven me right in at least some of these cases.. and having a "straight" woman come on to me was both an exciting and not a novel experience even if not common..

..and does Darlin' darlin know that she is engaged to a dirty bugger may I ask?? I suspect so.. sometimes I wonder about the asexuality, Duckie babes, if not ur bisexuality... a mucky mind indeed.. tee hee:tongue:;)

[Long Duck Dong]

it may well ignore the bisexual women chasing the straight women cos the author is a lesbian and writing from the lesbians point of view...... lol but you rise a good point... where are the articles by the bisexual woman about the bisexual womans point of view....... actually thats something that I would love to see in the forum... more bisexual females, lesbian females, hetero females points of view about life with bisexuals and how they see bisexuality...... cos its nice to see things from the other sides of the fence......

nudges fran... you were saying about your past ??? :tongue:

and yes, DD knows that behind the asexuality natured, tall, dark and handsome exterior, is a mucky minded person that has a past in more ways than one and DD's attempt to be a first with me at many things, is often met with me saying that she would not be the 1st, or the second or the third etc etc..... and if you do not watch it... this asexual natured bisexual will start pick thru the memories of fran the (cough ) innocent (cough ) lil lass with the mischievous grin.....

[Gearbox]

it comes back to the * let people label themselves * understanding...... and she does refer to bisexuals when she says Courting the bi-curious requires the skill of restraint
so she is acknowledging that people that ID as straight, can in fact be bi curious...

the authors statement: There is a sort of informal manual for lesbian chasing not-so-straight. And the first rule is, you have to be platonic first. Girls who are not-so-straight but identify as straight – even when they admit to being attracted to women – don't want that interest to seem conscious.

it begs the question, who is denying the bisexuality.... the author who refers to the ladies as some being bi curious but doesn't label people as bisexuals in denial... or the ladies themselves that can be bisexual / bi curious and do not want that fact known........

honestly, after reading things like jobelorocks has posted about her workmates assuming that as a bisexual female, she will sleep with them and their partners...and other posts about how bisexual females can feel pressured to have sex with other females for the benefit of their partners, I can honestly not blame a lot of bisexual females for being closeted / discreet.....

btw the author also did not refer to pansexuals and omnisexuals..... are they not valid sexualities either ???
So those 'not so straight' women are fair game for any bi-erasing she fancies, because they are not out n proud bi's?
Could you dig any deeper into that barrel and scrape another excuse for her? And how comes partners of bisexual women PRESSURE them into f-f sex, and this lesbian is 'up to mischief'?LOL!

Having read her article I'd have to assume that she's not retarded (bit thick though), knows what a bisexual is, and knows that typing "not so straight" takes longer than typing "bisexual". So why didn't she save the wear and tear of her keyboard?


She wasn't really a lesbian, even if she really wasn't all the way straight. She was my first not-really-straight girl tryst, but she would not be my last.
WTF is that about? Does her traumatic brief relationship with an obvious bisexual woman give her a mental block on the word "Bisexual"? Did her failure to get her to 'abandon the heterosexual ship' for ever give her issues about bisexuality?
How about a straight bloke try 'curing' HER lesbianism? THAT would be homophobic in a flash, but this shit gets by because she's a lesbian or a woman?

More questions next week!

[darkeyes]

There are times, Gear, when I wonder what goes through the heads of some of my lesbians sisters, if anything at all on occasion..

[Agatha]

It's certainly an interesting read. I do not put myself on any of those labels. I wish others could see

[Long Duck Dong]

So those 'not so straight' women are fair game for any bi-erasing she fancies, because they are not out n proud bi's?
Could you dig any deeper into that barrel and scrape another excuse for her? And how comes partners of bisexual women PRESSURE them into f-f sex, and this lesbian is 'up to mischief'?LOL!

Having read her article I'd have to assume that she's not retarded (bit thick though), knows what a bisexual is, and knows that typing "not so straight" takes longer than typing "bisexual". So why didn't she save the wear and tear of her keyboard?


WTF is that about? Does her traumatic brief relationship with an obvious bisexual woman give her a mental block on the word "Bisexual"? Did her failure to get her to 'abandon the heterosexual ship' for ever give her issues about bisexuality?
How about a straight bloke try 'curing' HER lesbianism? THAT would be homophobic in a flash, but this shit gets by because she's a lesbian or a woman?

More questions next week!


how about you mail the author and ask her yourself ?

[tenni]

"the authors statement: There is a sort of informal manual for lesbian chasing not-so-straight. And the first rule is, you have to be platonic first. Girls who are not-so-straight but identify as straight – even when they admit to being attracted to women – don't want that interest to seem conscious."

Which paragraph in the article states the above? Is this a direct quote from the author's article or an interpretation...paraphrasing?

[Long Duck Dong]

tenni, 4th paragraph up from the bottom... its a direct quote

Never, ever overtly refer to the electricity crackling between the two of you. Courting the bi-curious requires the skill of restraint. There is a sort of informal manual for lesbian chasing not-so-straight. And the first rule is, you have to be platonic first. Girls who are not-so-straight but identify as straight – even when they admit to being attracted to women – don't want that interest to seem conscious. It's always better if it seems like an impulsive adventure, a thing that just happened. Which means you always begin as nothing more than a friend. No compliments, no kissing, no holding hands, no longing looks. No I miss you phone calls. No yearning. Just casual chitchat girly-girl conversations. You should laugh when she confides in having a crush on some boy. Offer advice on what she should wear when she goes to see him. Be supportive of her relationship. Become her friend, first. Work very hard at being her very best friend. Always remember, you're only her friend. You are not allowed to bend that rule for at least three months.

[tenni]

thank you.

[Gearbox]

There are times, Gear, when I wonder what goes through the heads of some of my lesbians sisters, if anything at all on occasion..
Lol! Well lets be fair! People in general are prone to be 'mixed up' and no sexuality comes with a PHD in 'How Not To Be Fekin Silly'.:tongue: Wish they did!
As a beautiful sexy young lesbian woman with obvious skills in seduction, you have to wonder why she goes after hetero women though. She calls her seduction 'evangelical', and I've called many gays 'evangelists' during their "No such thing as bi!" conversations with me, when the agenda was JUST to have sex.lol It reminds me Voltaire's,“It is not enough to conquer; one must learn to seduce.”, quote. But as a bi, I'm quite happy for them to be gay. My 'hetero' side isn't the enemy they make it out to be. Nor would my conversion to gay be a victory for them. They'd be taking away something from me, not giving something to me. Yet I've had a few "After me, you wont want a woman!", claims that are spoken as if it was the latter. That I'd 'see the light' in some way.:eek2:

With Staceyann, it doesn't sound like the old hetero male studs boast ,"I can have any woman in this bar!". But more like the Christian Missionary's quest to bring Jesus into their hearts. Think the way I think, and feel the way I feel, kinda thing. Agnostics/bisexuals would be a real pain! Hardly worth the effort to turn full on Christian/gay.:tongue:
In her next article, I bet she'll try to convert Guardian readers over to The Daily Star. (if it still exists.lol).

[darkeyes]

Lol! Well lets be fair! People in general are prone to be 'mixed up' and no sexuality comes with a PHD in 'How Not To Be Fekin Silly'.:tongue: Wish they did!
As a beautiful sexy young lesbian woman with obvious skills in seduction, you have to wonder why she goes after hetero women though. She calls her seduction 'evangelical', and I've called many gays 'evangelists' during their "No such thing as bi!" conversations with me, when the agenda was JUST to have sex.lol It reminds me Voltaire's,“It is not enough to conquer; one must learn to seduce.”, quote. But as a bi, I'm quite happy for them to be gay. My 'hetero' side isn't the enemy they make it out to be. Nor would my conversion to gay be a victory for them. They'd be taking away something from me, not giving something to me. Yet I've had a few "After me, you wont want a woman!", claims that are spoken as if it was the latter. That I'd 'see the light' in some way.:eek2:

With Staceyann, it doesn't sound like the old hetero male studs boast ,"I can have any woman in this bar!". But more like the Christian Missionary's quest to bring Jesus into their hearts. Think the way I think, and feel the way I feel, kinda thing. Agnostics/bisexuals would be a real pain! Hardly worth the effort to turn full on Christian/gay.:tongue:
In her next article, I bet she'll try to convert Guardian readers over to The Daily Star. (if it still exists.lol).
I don't see anything "evangelical" about chasing straight women.. anyone who has desired and attempted to seduce the impossible and unattainable should understand that.. whether they are male or female.. and the gender of the quest is irrelevant... we are complex sexual beings, but sometimes we are a little too analytical and the principles of desire and pursuit are remarkably simple.. and sometimes the impossible and unattainable is not so impossibly impossible...

[Gearbox]

how about you mail the author and ask her yourself ?
Oh! Don't want to speculate on her possible bi-phobia, as it's not in your interest I see.


Well said! I have noticed that among some gay men that they flat out worship hetero men and the pipe dream fantasy of having sex with straight men yet these gay men vehemently deny that men can be bisexual, practice bisexual erasure against bisexual men, and think that women somehow can only be bisexual. It's all rather odd, especially when the gay man is highly biphobic yet claims that he's LOL been with actual "straight" men.
I was accused of being straight by a bloke I dated. While having sex!LOL! And I've heard how gays have had sex with straight men, not in prison, but of their own accord despite there being women around etc. It's pure fantasy! And I suppose that straights are more of a thrill than bi's because of the 'seduction' involved. But we all know they are not straight, so a little erasing goes on to fuel the fantasy.lol

[Gearbox]

I don't see anything "evangelical" about chasing straight women.. anyone who has desired and attempted to seduce the impossible and unattainable should understand that.. whether they are male or female.. and the gender of the quest is irrelevant... we are complex sexual beings, but sometimes we are a little too analytical and the principles of desire and pursuit are remarkably simple.. and sometimes the impossible and unattainable is not so impossibly impossible...
I get carried away on occasion.:tongue: If I don't understand, I compare. But you should hear them sometimes, they are remarkably similar to missionaries, and I'm def not unobtainable sexually, just sexuality-wise.LOL!
There's one straight bloke in the world that I really fantasise about, and he led me to suspect his sexuality. Others that are 'off limits' are just nice to look at, and great if they were at least bi, to me. So I probably just don't get the pursuit of them. Too much hard work for me.lol

[darkeyes]

I get carried away on occasion.:tongue: If I don't understand, I compare. But you should hear them sometimes, they are remarkably similar to missionaries, and I'm def not unobtainable sexually, just sexuality-wise.LOL!
There's one straight bloke in the world that I really fantasise about, and he led me to suspect his sexuality. Others that are 'off limits' are just nice to look at, and great if they were at least bi, to me. So I probably just don't get the pursuit of them. Too much hard work for me.lol
Attraction makes us do the silliest things and often we make fools of ourselves.. I have, mostly when in my teens, but occasionally since. The mystery is why certain people turn us on and why we go to such great lengths to have our wicked way, not that we do.. and the sexuality of our prey is unimportant.. we are driven by what heart and mind tells us and often ignore the common sense with which we were born.. it sounds predatory and I suppose it is, some of us are or have been just a little more predatory than others..

[Long Duck Dong]

Oh! Don't want to speculate on her possible bi-phobia, as it's not in your interest I see.


no, its cos I generally do not label people as biphobic... unless I hear them slamming or rubbishing bisexuals.... its too easy to read things into what people say in articles..... but I like to hear it from them as a independent source

what a person writes in a article, is not always a expression of their true feelings and beliefs, so I err on the side of caution and perfer to hear the bi phobia from their own mouths.... not a article that may have been thru the hands of a editor and ok'ed for publication......cos it may well be the editor that is a biphobic person, not the writer....

[darkeyes]

no, its cos I generally do not label people as biphobic... unless I hear them slamming or rubbishing bisexuals.... its too easy to read things into what people say in articles..... but I like to hear it from them as a independent source

what a person writes in a article, is not always a expression of their true feelings and beliefs, so I err on the side of caution and perfer to hear the bi phobia from their own mouths.... not a article that may have been thru the hands of a editor and ok'ed for publication......cos it may well be the editor that is a biphobic person, not the writer....
I agree with u here Duckie.. but also it might be that she is just bi-forgetful as much as anything.. the Guardian is the most supportive newspaper we have on lgbt issues.. but it too can be a bit bi-forgetful sometimes.. it doesn't necessarily mean someone is bi-phobic, and the Guardian as a publication certainly isn't that, but when individuals write and have articles published in that or any newspaper, it can mean that, because the article may have been sought by that newspaper but as is often the case, it does not necessarily reflect the view of that journal, its trustees or its owners..

[Gearbox]

no, its cos I generally do not label people as biphobic... unless I hear them slamming or rubbishing bisexuals.... its too easy to read things into what people say in articles..... but I like to hear it from them as a independent source

what a person writes in a article, is not always a expression of their true feelings and beliefs, so I err on the side of caution and perfer to hear the bi phobia from their own mouths.... not a article that may have been thru the hands of a editor and ok'ed for publication......cos it may well be the editor that is a biphobic person, not the writer....
Shame that policy doesn't include blaming everybody and everything other than the person in question though:

it begs the question, who is denying the bisexuality.... the author who refers to the ladies as some being bi curious but doesn't label people as bisexuals in denial... or the ladies themselves that can be bisexual / bi curious and do not want that fact known........

its a far better thing that she acknowledged the bi curious and lgbt as she understood it and left it at that,... than made statements about bisexuals and bisexuality that were in error and incurred the wrath of the bisexual community for *labelling * them...... or in this case, not labelling them....

but the article was actually about the lesbian getting the straight women.... not so much about how many of the straight women were bisexuals or bisexuals in denial......
Etc.....

It's called 'Spin Doctering' with a pro G&B and anti B stance. Which gives you this muddled view of the same thing:

and other posts about how bisexual females can feel pressured to have sex with other females for the benefit of their partners

any ways, it is a interesting article about some of the mischief that the lesbian ladies get up to....

She may not be biphobic, but how the Hell could you tell with your double standards?

@ Fran- For a LGBT friendly tabloid, they've done a great job to inspire homophobia, if not bi-erasure. What Guardian reading hetero woman is not going to suspect any lesbian that tries to befriend her, of grooming?
The article wouldn't have had the same connotations if the word "Bisexual" was used instead of "Straight" & "Not so straight"! Bi women wouldn't feel so threatened, if at all. But straight women (proper straight.lol) as targets for lesbians? My sis would shit herself!lol

[tenni]

I agree with u here Duckie.. but also it might be that she is just bi-forgetful as much as anything.. the Guardian is the most supportive newspaper we have on lgbt issues.. but it too can be a bit bi-forgetful sometimes.. it doesn't necessarily mean someone is bi-phobic, and the Guardian as a publication certainly isn't that, but when individuals write and have articles published in that or any newspaper, it can mean that, because the article may have been sought by that newspaper but as is often the case, it does not necessarily reflect the view of that journal, its trustees or its owners..

darkeyes
"a bit bi-forgetful" by a newspaper media like the Guardian is BI INVISIBILITY/Bi Erasure. Whether intentional or accidental, it is what it is...not "a bit bi forgetful"

[Long Duck Dong]

well gearbox, its a lesbian female talking about the LGBT.... and you are not happy about it... so as a bisexual male, maybe you would like to write articles for the paper in support of the LGBT and pro bi aspect......

if you have a issue with a lesbian female not talking about the bi community.... then contact the newspaper about it.........

all I really have to say, is look at the reactions in the thread over Mr gay world, for talking about supporting the LGBT community ( including the bi community ) and the remarks about how he did not represent the bi community so should not be speaking on behalf of them...... then read this thread again and see how a lesbian author is being labeled as wrong for not talking about the activities of the bi community


dammed if they do, dammed if they don't............

[Gearbox]

Hang on LDD! Fran is a lesbian and She doesn't sound too happy about it either. Nor, by the comments on the link, are lots of others of various sexualities. They are called 'People'. It's not a 'Bi Vs Lesbian' thing!
Nope! Just because the author is a lesbian, doesn't mean she's doing LGBT ANY favours, or excuses her from criticism. Make no mistake, if she was a bi female talking shit(IMO) and referring to gay males as 'not so monosexual', you'd see me right here saying pretty much the same things! I couldn't give a toss what sexuality she is!

The author isn't being criticised for not talking about the bi community at all! And not everybody thinks a gay beauty contest represents bisexuals either. Nor do every gay, lesbian or transgender think it represents them. So what?

I've already read the thread, and of course noticed (yet again) that you are extremely biased in your views of people depending on their sexuality. I think it's VERY interesting, and have noticed the same thing in others. If that could be explored honestly it might actually be of benefit. In my guesstamate you view ALL gays&lesbians as victims, and you 'defend/excuse' them regardless of what they actually are individually. And you view bisexuals as 'not victims', so you have no qualms saying exactly what you feel like about them regardless of what they actually are individually.

Might be interesting.

[DuckiesDarling]

I have refrained from commenting on this story but the more I read it the more it kinda irritates me. The author's choice of title is making it sound as though every heterosexual woman is just dying to be "flipped" by a lesbian. In my opinion, you don't "flip" anyone. They either are or are not curious. You can't make a straight person bi, you can't make a straight person gay, you can't make a lesbian bi or straight, you can't make a gay bi or straight and you can't make a bi straight or gay/lesbian. In short you can't make anyone be anything that they don't want to be. Are there instances of people who were bi but now gay? Sure, just as there are instances of gays who are now bi. But buying into the propoganda of "flipping" is just not something I want to do. Was the author dismissing the "not so straight" and not giving credit for bicuriosity? Maybe, but remember it was her personal "blog/article", her opinion. I don't happen to agree with it, but not because she is anything but an author making a statement I don't like. :2cents:

[Long Duck Dong]

Hang on LDD! Fran is a lesbian and She doesn't sound too happy about it either. Nor, by the comments on the link, are lots of others of various sexualities. They are called 'People'. It's not a 'Bi Vs Lesbian' thing!
Nope! Just because the author is a lesbian, doesn't mean she's doing LGBT ANY favours, or excuses her from criticism. Make no mistake, if she was a bi female talking shit(IMO) and referring to gay males as 'not so monosexual', you'd see me right here saying pretty much the same things! I couldn't give a toss what sexuality she is!

The author isn't being criticised for not talking about the bi community at all! And not everybody thinks a gay beauty contest represents bisexuals either. Nor do every gay, lesbian or transgender think it represents them. So what?

I've already read the thread, and of course noticed (yet again) that you are extremely biased in your views of people depending on their sexuality. I think it's VERY interesting, and have noticed the same thing in others. If that could be explored honestly it might actually be of benefit. In my guesstamate you view ALL gays&lesbians as victims, and you 'defend/excuse' them regardless of what they actually are individually. And you view bisexuals as 'not victims', so you have no qualms saying exactly what you feel like about them regardless of what they actually are individually.

Might be interesting.


nods, gearbox, .......

I merely posted the article as a alternative view point, as I do with most things..... a point of view other than my own.....cos I have a interest in how others view the same world I live in... and the differences between cultures and sexualities..... and her point of view is a opinion, but a opinion that others do not share, is more often than not, resulting in people being labeled as phobic or in denial etc etc.....and fuck all of people posting their own experiences.... and that is what I miss... reading other peoples stories without the * bi phobic, bi erasure, bi invisibility, you're in denial, you are too scared to admit the truth * etc etc..... and no I am not denying the stuff exists.... but christ....its getting to the point that near every thing is going on and on about it.......

as for the remarks about the articles, its cos more to do with the fact that its getting impossible to read a thread that is not full of accusations of phobic and erasure and how people are in denial etc etc......and I wish there was more bisexual articles posted, .... nudges drew lol..... and yes, I would surprised if there was no disagreements with what is written.......

as for the Mr gay world thing, fair enuf, not everybody feels that he does...... and thats fine..... but my simple point was that he is standing up there and being visible...... most of the people that are complaining about stuff like that,... are not posting pro bi articles and articles about bi role models etc etc.... they are complaining cos there are none and how its wrong etc........so I thought that sharing different articles would stimulate conversation..... but yeah..... I am fast becoming like many of the other members and thinking why bother posting anything... cos they are not conversation starters, they are just more threads for people to be flamed and rubbished......

the number of good articles, posts and requests for help in the site, are dropping faster than a hypersexuals pants at a orgy... and its a real shame....... and we can not blame that on the gay and les community or on biphobia and bi erasure and bi visibility... we can only blame that on ourselves.......

so no... I am not disagreeing with you... I agree with you on a lot of points..... lol..... it just doesn't appear that way.....

[Gearbox]

nods, gearbox, .......

I merely posted the article as a alternative view point, as I do with most things..... a point of view other than my own.....cos I have a interest in how others view the same world I live in... and the differences between cultures and sexualities..... and her point of view is a opinion, but a opinion that others do not share, is more often than not, resulting in people being labeled as phobic or in denial etc etc.....and fuck all of people posting their own experiences.... and that is what I miss... reading other peoples stories without the * bi phobic, bi erasure, bi invisibility, you're in denial, you are too scared to admit the truth * etc etc..... and no I am not denying the stuff exists.... but christ....its getting to the point that near every thing is going on and on about it.......

as for the remarks about the articles, its cos more to do with the fact that its getting impossible to read a thread that is not full of accusations of phobic and erasure and how people are in denial etc etc......and I wish there was more bisexual articles posted, .... nudges drew lol..... and yes, I would surprised if there was no disagreements with what is written.......

as for the Mr gay world thing, fair enuf, not everybody feels that he does...... and thats fine..... but my simple point was that he is standing up there and being visible...... most of the people that are complaining about stuff like that,... are not posting pro bi articles and articles about bi role models etc etc.... they are complaining cos there are none and how its wrong etc........so I thought that sharing different articles would stimulate conversation..... but yeah..... I am fast becoming like many of the other members and thinking why bother posting anything... cos they are not conversation starters, they are just more threads for people to be flamed and rubbished......

the number of good articles, posts and requests for help in the site, are dropping faster than a hypersexuals pants at a orgy... and its a real shame....... and we can not blame that on the gay and les community or on biphobia and bi erasure and bi visibility... we can only blame that on ourselves.......

so no... I am not disagreeing with you... I agree with you on a lot of points..... lol..... it just doesn't appear that way.....
@LDD- Why wouldn't your own honest personal opinion teach you about the world you live in? If we all gave false perspectives, we'd learn nothing about anyone or ourselves. We could write articles about how Mira Hindley was misunderstood etc (FUCK! That made me a little self repulsed just to type!). No, fek that! Best stick to honest opinion.:eek2:
Honest is what Staceyann comes across as. Which is admirable! She's also an out n proud lesbian. Admirable again.
She has trouble with the word "Bisexual", when describing 'not so straight' women, which is why her article is here, so no shock the that you'd read "Biphobia"&"Bi-erasure", much like you'd read "Homophobia" a LOT on gay sites.
She also comes across as a self gratifying sexual predator with no interest in how that effects other lesbians or hetero women, or herself and future 'conquests' Doh!.
She doesn't represent ALL lesbian-kind! She represents herself, and any criticism is aimed at HER, not lesbians in general. Guardian readers may not see it that way. It wasn't explained that the article was about HER, and not lesbians! Although you'd think it was the latter if you read it. Thank fek Fran only READS the Guardian.:bigrin:

LOL! No, her life as a highly respected teacher and pillar of the community would have to be spiced up a bit to get in the Guardian after Staceyann's performance. (Or would it? :suave:).

I would hope that nobody would be pro-bi at the cost of anti-gay or anything else. There are LOTS of anti-bi gays, and to think otherwise is absurd. To judge ALL gays by them is stupid too. They represent themselves as prejudice, not gay, as do any bi's that are anti-gay and whatever. Prejudice stands alone IMO.

If I were to be visible and write an article for the Guardian, I'd be sure to give a big "Thank you" to all the gay men out there who DIDN'T give a toss that I was bi, and just got on with the sex.lol I couldn't do the same for my dating experiences, unfortunately. But it's early days yet, so I'll hold my tongue until I got something more positive to write about.:tongue:

[Long Duck Dong]

lol gearbox, you want my honest opinion on the female ??? you can have it.....

Shes a middle twenties type female that is questioning the world around her and looking for her own sphere of self empowerment. lives in a shared situation with other people and is not as independent as she likes to express in her article, and that comes from a understanding that she is a *outcast * a person on the fringe of society and not somebody that is going to be fully accepted by her own community or any other....

shes putting forward a image in the pic but its false and natural, posed if you like and that is the way that much of her life is, and the reason for that is that she feels trapped, her heads a mess, her thoughts entangled and shes scared.... as for not saying the word bisexual, she is afraid of the word as if its some kind of power word that is like a spiders web...... the way she refers to people, is in the way that people that have internal and sublimal fears, can express themselves, they like to reach out and play with the fire that could burn them and that is ever present in the back of her mind as she plays the games she does....

the lesbian * matriarchal * understanding that lesbians do not have any interest in males, they are a sub species of the human race, the defective gene pool.. is something that she battles with, and it comes out in her writing but as a subtle aspect... she carefully works around talking about the females partners, and focuses on the single female, not the women out for a ladies night out, that may have sex with their female friends, with or with the male partner or the dreaded bisexual.... so she focuses on the single, not so straight female, the one that * longs to change sides but is trapped within the heterosexual chains of society *... and the author wants the freedom of the heterosexual relationship but non of the trappings, like the dreaded male or the OMG bisexual condition that hands around some females like a spectre of impending penis love.....

the author is not bi phobic, its not bisexuals or bisexuality that she has the issue with... its the social trappings and stigma of sexuality that is a key issue with her... and she doesn't want to be seen to be being friendly with the *enemy * the evil bisexual, so she words her article to touch on the bi curious without mentioning the B word directly..... to do so, is to incur the wrath of the lesbian kind as a sexuality traitor for acknowledging bisexuality as a sexuality... and not * those people *

so she reaches out, touches and enjoys the presence of other ladies, in a * safe * way.... the memory of her own connection with a heterosexual female ( not bisexual ) and the way that the female was drawn back to the BF, are things that she feels inside.... and when writing, she fights with her understanding of bisexuality and thinks of the false images about bisexuality... and realises that it may be true.... that bisexuals are trapped in their own circular need and desire for sex and love, but never finding peace and the ability to settle...... cos that makes what she feels inside herself..... she doesn't want to be tied down either... but her issue is that shes not monogamous natured either..... so a way around that, is the bar hunt for the single * white meat *, that will disappear into the night later on, to who knows where........

so she remains single, the huntress, the spider in a web of her own making.... within a cocoon of social defined sexuality..... not bi phobic, but scared to address her own fears in her own writings, by using the term, bisexual.....in case, her own kind turn on her.........

[tenni]

post 25 (Gear)
"I've already read the thread, and of course noticed (yet again) that you are extremely biased in your views of people depending on their sexuality. .....In my guesstamate you view ALL gays&lesbians as victims, and you 'defend/excuse' them regardless of what they actually are individually. And you view bisexuals as 'not victims', so you have no qualms saying exactly what you feel like about them regardless of what they actually are individually."

post 27 (LDD)
"I merely posted the article as a alternative view point, as I do with most things..... a point of view other than my own........ and that is what I miss... reading other peoples stories without the * bi phobic, bi erasure, bi invisibility, you're in denial, you are too scared to admit the truth * etc etc..... and no I am not denying the stuff exists.... but christ....its getting to the point that near every thing is going on and on about it......."

LDD didn't post this article. darkeyes did?

I may be wrong but I don't see anyone other than LDD having been accused of being biphobic on this site?

When I read LDD posts I do read a mocking snear/dismissal in his words that communicate a disrespect of the issue of biphobia and Bi Invisibility. His words come across as though he doesn't believe that there is biphobia but there is homophobia. This is similar to Gear's comment about perceiving G&L as victims while bisexuals are not victims. That is biphobic.

A lot of the tension on this site comes from people reacting to the behaviour of LDD attempts at wanting to present an "alternative view". That and his campaign to present himself as a martry makes others run to "protect him". We don't need LDD setting himself up as "teacher" let alone a martyr teacher. It isn't working as he comes across as not fighting Bi Invisibility and appears to be biphobic.

His failure to comprehend that a "Mr Gay World" should/can not represent bisexual men is not only off topic (again) but a example of bisexual politics and Bi Invisibility. Mr. Gay World represents gay men only. The fact that LDD choses to not accept this speaks volumes about his beliefs on Bi Invisibility and indicates his biphobia.

[DuckiesDarling]

post 25 (Gear)
"I've already read the thread, and of course noticed (yet again) that you are extremely biased in your views of people depending on their sexuality. .....In my guesstamate you view ALL gays&lesbians as victims, and you 'defend/excuse' them regardless of what they actually are individually. And you view bisexuals as 'not victims', so you have no qualms saying exactly what you feel like about them regardless of what they actually are individually."

post 27 (LDD)
"I merely posted the article as a alternative view point, as I do with most things..... a point of view other than my own........ and that is what I miss... reading other peoples stories without the * bi phobic, bi erasure, bi invisibility, you're in denial, you are too scared to admit the truth * etc etc..... and no I am not denying the stuff exists.... but christ....its getting to the point that near every thing is going on and on about it......."

LDD didn't post this article. darkeyes did?

I may be wrong but I don't see anyone other than LDD having been accused of being biphobic on this site?

When I read LDD posts I do read a mocking snear/dismissal in his words that communicate a disrespect of the issue of biphobia and Bi Invisibility. His words come across as though he doesn't believe that there is biphobia but there is homophobia. This is similar to Gear's comment about perceiving G&L as victims while bisexuals are not victims. That is biphobic.

A lot of the tension on this site comes from people reacting to the behaviour of LDD attempts at wanting to present an "alternative view". That and his campaign to present himself as a martry makes others run to "protect him". We don't need LDD setting himself up as "teacher" let alone a martyr teacher. It isn't working as he comes across as not fighting Bi Invisibility and appears to be biphobic.

His failure to comprehend that a "Mr Gay World" should/can not represent bisexual men is not only off topic (again) but a example of bisexual politics and Bi Invisibility. Mr. Gay World represents gay men only. The fact that LDD choses to not accept this speaks volumes about his beliefs on Bi Invisibility and indicates his biphobia.

You know Tenni if you would actually read what you say you read, you'd know they were talking about the Mr. Gay World article which he did post as well. Quit making an utter fool of yourself.

[Long Duck Dong]

post 25 (Gear)
"I've already read the thread, and of course noticed (yet again) that you are extremely biased in your views of people depending on their sexuality. .....In my guesstamate you view ALL gays&lesbians as victims, and you 'defend/excuse' them regardless of what they actually are individually. And you view bisexuals as 'not victims', so you have no qualms saying exactly what you feel like about them regardless of what they actually are individually."

post 27 (LDD)
"I merely posted the article as a alternative view point, as I do with most things..... a point of view other than my own........ and that is what I miss... reading other peoples stories without the * bi phobic, bi erasure, bi invisibility, you're in denial, you are too scared to admit the truth * etc etc..... and no I am not denying the stuff exists.... but christ....its getting to the point that near every thing is going on and on about it......."

LDD didn't post this article. darkeyes did?

I may be wrong but I don't see anyone other than LDD having been accused of being biphobic on this site?

When I read LDD posts I do read a mocking snear/dismissal in his words that communicate a disrespect of the issue of biphobia and Bi Invisibility. His words come across as though he doesn't believe that there is biphobia but there is homophobia. This is similar to Gear's comment about perceiving G&L as victims while bisexuals are not victims. That is biphobic.

A lot of the tension on this site comes from people reacting to the behaviour of LDD attempts at wanting to present an "alternative view". That and his campaign to present himself as a martry makes others run to "protect him". We don't need LDD setting himself up as "teacher" let alone a martyr teacher. It isn't working as he comes across as not fighting Bi Invisibility and appears to be biphobic.

His failure to comprehend that a "Mr Gay World" should/can not represent bisexual men is not only off topic (again) but a example of bisexual politics and Bi Invisibility. Mr. Gay World represents gay men only. The fact that LDD choses to not accept this speaks volumes about his beliefs on Bi Invisibility and indicates his biphobia.


yes darkeyes did, I was distracted and thinking of another thread.......

as for the being called phobic.... its cos you are the one that does most of the claiming I am bi phobic, tenni, thats why you only really see me being called bi phobic.....

I am well aware that bi erasure exists.... it happens when I am told that I am not bisexual by you and other members......

that is why others rush, tenni.... not cos they are trying to protect me... but they are getting sick of you going after me constantly, and then protesting the very same thing that you are doing.... its not only your forum.. and many others have told you time and time again to back the hell off... and you refuse to listen....

as part of my sig says

It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem.

[tenni]

Do I think that LDD is a bisexual?

Initially, I couldn't understand why you saw hmself as a bisexual. This is true.

I still have difficulty seeing him that way but if you perceive yourself to be a bisexual that is fine just add your other aspects. I've repeatedly asked or pointed out that LDD is a boutique assemblage of things. Asexual seems to be dominating any sexual aspect of himself. Whether his asexuality is real or not(blurred as he wrote) is up for debate. I've pointed out my friend who is by far closer to a more common form of asexuality. Because I have been a friend of a "full"(quoting LDD) asexual for 20 years, I think that my confusion and disbelief is understandable.

The point that LDD continuously changes his statements about himself doesn't help in presently himself as bisexual. He is an intersexed, person who has romantic emotional attachments to both men, women, transgendered people. Yet, he wants a sexual act of being pegged by a woman? (he has a reason and he will repost it in a minute). This is not the behaviour of an asexual person such as my asexual friend.

A person who wishes to present an alternative view and not be perceived as holding that view, usually makes such an initial statement (devil's advocate etc.)

Now, once again we have had a thread turn to LDD's favourite topic..himself. ;)

There will be at least one more post from LDD adding and clarifying for us. LAST word attitude.

[DuckiesDarling]

Do I think that LDD is a bisexual?

Initially, I couldn't understand why you saw hmself as a bisexual. This is true.

I still have difficulty seeing him that way but if you perceive yourself to be a bisexual that is fine just add your other aspects. I've repeatedly asked or pointed out that LDD is a boutique assemblage of things. Asexual seems to be dominating any sexual aspect of himself. Whether his asexuality is real or not(blurred as he wrote) is up for debate. I've pointed out my friend who is by far closer to a more common form of asexuality. Because I have been a friend of a "full"(quoting LDD) asexual for 20 years, I think that my confusion and disbelief is understandable.

The point that LDD continuously changes his statements about himself doesn't help in presently himself as bisexual. He is an intersexed, person who has romantic emotional attachments to both men, women, transgendered people. Yet, he wants a sexual act of being pegged by a woman? (he has a reason and he will repost it in a minute). This is not the behaviour of an asexual person such as my asexual friend.

A person who wishes to present an alternative view and not be perceived as holding that view, usually makes such an initial statement (devil's advocate etc.)

Now, once again we have had a thread turn to LDD's favourite topic..himself. ;)

There will be at least one more post from LDD adding and clarifying for us. LAST word attitude.

News flash, no one cares if you think he is bisexual or not, we don't care if you are bisexual or an alien from planet Pluto. Stay in your bedroom, we'll take care of what goes on in our bedrooms. Capiche?

[tenni]

Nope DD
LDD admits error why don't you? Once again he has posted a "hanging noun"..""the article". This thread is about an article. If the hanging noun "the article" has any antecedent it is the thread topic article.

[DuckiesDarling]

No he admitted you might think he was talking about what Fran posted, but when you go and actually read the conversation between him and Gear, which you butted into, you will see he talked about the article HE posted. So why don't you find a new past time, because your continual going after someone is harrassment and will be reported to Drew as such. I don't believe there have been more than 3 posts by you in the past few months where you haven't taken a side swipe at someone, usually either LDD or myself. You don't want to read what we post put us on ignore. But your continual snipping and sniping is doing nothing but pissing in the wind upstream, it always lands on you.

[darkeyes]

so she remains single, the huntress, the spider in a web of her own making.... within a cocoon of social defined sexuality..... not bi phobic, but scared to address her own fears in her own writings, by using the term, bisexual.....in case, her own kind turn on her.........
I suspect that this is a truism in respect of the author of the article... not all lesbians would turn on her, but the arrogant, thoughtless, dogmatic, often rather dim ones might.. what she talks about is primarily bisexual women, but perish the thought that she should mention the name...

[darkeyes]

Do I think that LDD is a bisexual?

Initially, I couldn't understand why you saw hmself as a bisexual. This is true.

I still have difficulty seeing him that way but if you perceive yourself to be a bisexual that is fine just add your other aspects. I've repeatedly asked or pointed out that LDD is a boutique assemblage of things. Asexual seems to be dominating any sexual aspect of himself. Whether his asexuality is real or not(blurred as he wrote) is up for debate. I've pointed out my friend who is by far closer to a more common form of asexuality. Because I have been a friend of a "full"(quoting LDD) asexual for 20 years, I think that my confusion and disbelief is understandable.

The point that LDD continuously changes his statements about himself doesn't help in presently himself as bisexual. He is an intersexed, person who has romantic emotional attachments to both men, women, transgendered people. Yet, he wants a sexual act of being pegged by a woman? (he has a reason and he will repost it in a minute). This is not the behaviour of an asexual person such as my asexual friend.

A person who wishes to present an alternative view and not be perceived as holding that view, usually makes such an initial statement (devil's advocate etc.)

Now, once again we have had a thread turn to LDD's favourite topic..himself. ;)

There will be at least one more post from LDD adding and clarifying for us. LAST word attitude.
Can we get off ur favourite topic, Tenni?

[BiDaveDtown]

post 25 (Gear) "I've already read the thread, and of course noticed (yet again) that you are extremely biased in your views of people depending on their sexuality. .....In my guesstamate you view ALL gays&lesbians as victims, and you 'defend/excuse' them regardless of what they actually are individually. And you view bisexuals as 'not victims', so you have no qualms saying exactly what you feel like about them regardless of what they actually are individually." post 27 (LDD) "I merely posted the article as a alternative view point, as I do with most things..... a point of view other than my own........ and that is what I miss... reading other peoples stories without the * bi phobic, bi erasure, bi invisibility, you're in denial, you are too scared to admit the truth * etc etc..... and no I am not denying the stuff exists.... but christ....its getting to the point that near every thing is going on and on about it......." LDD didn't post this article. darkeyes did? I may be wrong but I don't see anyone other than LDD having been accused of being biphobic on this site? When I read LDD posts I do read a mocking snear/dismissal in his words that communicate a disrespect of the issue of biphobia and Bi Invisibility. His words come across as though he doesn't believe that there is biphobia but there is homophobia. This is similar to Gear's comment about perceiving G&L as victims while bisexuals are not victims. That is biphobic. A lot of the tension on this site comes from people reacting to the behaviour of LDD attempts at wanting to present an "alternative view". That and his campaign to present himself as a martry makes others run to "protect him". We don't need LDD setting himself up as "teacher" let alone a martyr teacher. It isn't working as he comes across as not fighting Bi Invisibility and appears to be biphobic. His failure to comprehend that a "Mr Gay World" should/can not represent bisexual men is not only off topic (again) but a example of bisexual politics and Bi Invisibility. Mr. Gay World represents gay men only. The fact that LDD choses to not accept this speaks volumes about his beliefs on Bi Invisibility and indicates his biphobia. Do I think that LDD is a bisexual? Initially, I couldn't understand why you saw hmself as a bisexual. This is true. I've repeatedly asked or pointed out that LDD is a boutique assemblage of things. Asexual seems to be dominating any sexual aspect of himself. Whether his asexuality is real or not(blurred as he wrote) is up for debate. I've pointed out my friend who is by far closer to a more common form of asexuality. Because I have been a friend of a "full"(quoting LDD) asexual for 20 years, I think that my confusion and disbelief is understandable. The point that LDD continuously changes his statements about himself doesn't help in presently himself as bisexual. He is an intersexed, person who has romantic emotional attachments to both men, women, transgendered people. Yet, he wants a sexual act of being pegged by a woman? (he has a reason and he will repost it in a minute). This is not the behaviour of an asexual person such as my asexual friend. A person who wishes to present an alternative view and not be perceived as holding that view, usually makes such an initial statement (devil's advocate etc.) Now, once again we have had a thread turn to LDD's favourite topic..himself. ;) There will be at least one more post from LDD adding and clarifying for us. LAST word attitude. I agree. I've decided to ignore silly asexual people who are faux bisexuals (not to mention faux trans/intersex people) and not sexually attracted to anyone at all and without sexual desire, lust, or enjoyment of sex at all, and their partners who claim bisexuality or heteroflexibility yet are not sexually attracted to the same gender at all. I also agree with what Gearbox wrote about biphobia. :)

[BiDaveDtown]

I suspect that this is a truism in respect of the author of the article... not all lesbians would turn on her, but the arrogant, thoughtless, dogmatic, often rather dim ones might.. what she talks about is primarily bisexual women, but perish the thought that she should mention the name... I agree with you there darkeyes. :) I've noticed the same thing with gay men, how many of them are very biphobic and practice bisexual erasure yet they go on and on about how they've somehow been with "straight" men or they lust after straight men, and some actually need the fantasy that they've had sex with an actual straight/hetero guy. :rolleyes:

[BiDaveDtown]

I am well aware that bi erasure exists.... it happens when I am told that I am not bisexual by you and other members......In this case they would be correct since you are asexual and you are not bisexual.

[BiDaveDtown]

I am well aware that bi erasure exists.... it happens when I am told that I am not bisexual...... It's not bisexual erasure since you're not bisexual at all. Even you yourself have written about and said how you're asexual and do not have sexual attraction to anyone and don't get turned on by people or want sex with them.

[Gearbox]

lol gearbox, you want my honest opinion on the female ??? you can have it.....

Shes a middle twenties type female that is questioning the world around her and looking for her own sphere of self empowerment. lives in a shared situation with other people and is not as independent as she likes to express in her article, and that comes from a understanding that she is a *outcast * a person on the fringe of society and not somebody that is going to be fully accepted by her own community or any other....

shes putting forward a image in the pic but its false and natural, posed if you like and that is the way that much of her life is, and the reason for that is that she feels trapped, her heads a mess, her thoughts entangled and shes scared.... as for not saying the word bisexual, she is afraid of the word as if its some kind of power word that is like a spiders web...... the way she refers to people, is in the way that people that have internal and sublimal fears, can express themselves, they like to reach out and play with the fire that could burn them and that is ever present in the back of her mind as she plays the games she does....

the lesbian * matriarchal * understanding that lesbians do not have any interest in males, they are a sub species of the human race, the defective gene pool.. is something that she battles with, and it comes out in her writing but as a subtle aspect... she carefully works around talking about the females partners, and focuses on the single female, not the women out for a ladies night out, that may have sex with their female friends, with or with the male partner or the dreaded bisexual.... so she focuses on the single, not so straight female, the one that * longs to change sides but is trapped within the heterosexual chains of society *... and the author wants the freedom of the heterosexual relationship but non of the trappings, like the dreaded male or the OMG bisexual condition that hands around some females like a spectre of impending penis love.....

the author is not bi phobic, its not bisexuals or bisexuality that she has the issue with... its the social trappings and stigma of sexuality that is a key issue with her... and she doesn't want to be seen to be being friendly with the *enemy * the evil bisexual, so she words her article to touch on the bi curious without mentioning the B word directly..... to do so, is to incur the wrath of the lesbian kind as a sexuality traitor for acknowledging bisexuality as a sexuality... and not * those people *

so she reaches out, touches and enjoys the presence of other ladies, in a * safe * way.... the memory of her own connection with a heterosexual female ( not bisexual ) and the way that the female was drawn back to the BF, are things that she feels inside.... and when writing, she fights with her understanding of bisexuality and thinks of the false images about bisexuality... and realises that it may be true.... that bisexuals are trapped in their own circular need and desire for sex and love, but never finding peace and the ability to settle...... cos that makes what she feels inside herself..... she doesn't want to be tied down either... but her issue is that shes not monogamous natured either..... so a way around that, is the bar hunt for the single * white meat *, that will disappear into the night later on, to who knows where........

so she remains single, the huntress, the spider in a web of her own making.... within a cocoon of social defined sexuality..... not bi phobic, but scared to address her own fears in her own writings, by using the term, bisexual.....in case, her own kind turn on her.........
she's Catwoman?:yikes2:
Well she's bloody scary!lol I don't know which part of that is the most worrying or interesting, as it's all a mix of both.

the lesbian * matriarchal * understanding that lesbians do not have any interest in males, they are a sub species of the human race, the defective gene pool.
This is something that I think strikes a chord with some gay men too. It's not good enough that the opposite genders genitals don't 'push your button', but they must make you want to spew too. I've never understood that, and it often seems very staged. As if they are expected to have that extreme reaction, or to prevent themselves from turning bi.LOL!
But some do, and they are out of that 'sub species'. I've always had probs with the 'Born this way'/'victim of genetics' stance of gay pride etc. IMO it gives many a false rigid sexual identity, that undermines freedom. And freedom it SHOULD be all about, but under ONE umbrella inclusive of ALL sexual traits. The LGBT should work on 'fixing' global sexuality, not segregating it into 'sub species' and def NOT needing an excuse for being 'different'. Call it 'Human Sexual Spectrum'.lol

But I'm bi. I use 'bi think', so I would think that.http://www.bisexual.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.png
So is there really a 'sub species' mentality amongst g&l's (and b&t's?), or is it actual? social or genetic?
(this should be good for the Guardian. Double page spread.lol).

[darkeyes]

I agree with you there darkeyes. :) I've noticed the same thing with gay men, how many of them are very biphobic and practice bisexual erasure yet they go on and on about how they've somehow been with "straight" men or they lust after straight men, and some actually need the fantasy that they've had sex with an actual straight/hetero guy. :rolleyes:
Frankly, I would rather that u don't agree with me, because I find anything resembling support from you quite embarrassing.. there are gay men and women who are as you say, but such is your own homophobia that what I think is based on quite a different premise from anything you have to say.

[Long Duck Dong]

she's Catwoman?:yikes2:
Well she's bloody scary!lol I don't know which part of that is the most worrying or interesting, as it's all a mix of both.

This is something that I think strikes a chord with some gay men too. It's not good enough that the opposite genders genitals don't 'push your button', but they must make you want to spew too. I've never understood that, and it often seems very staged. As if they are expected to have that extreme reaction, or to prevent themselves from turning bi.LOL!
But some do, and they are out of that 'sub species'. I've always had probs with the 'Born this way'/'victim of genetics' stance of gay pride etc. IMO it gives many a false rigid sexual identity, that undermines freedom. And freedom it SHOULD be all about, but under ONE umbrella inclusive of ALL sexual traits. The LGBT should work on 'fixing' global sexuality, not segregating it into 'sub species' and def NOT needing an excuse for being 'different'. Call it 'Human Sexual Spectrum'.lol

But I'm bi. I use 'bi think', so I would think that.http://www.bisexual.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.png
So is there really a 'sub species' mentality amongst g&l's (and b&t's?), or is it actual? social or genetic?
(this should be good for the Guardian. Double page spread.lol).


I used to live in a shared house with a gay man and a lesbian, years ago.... the gay guy had genitalia aversion... the idea of sex with females was not a issue, but thinking about the female genitalia was something he could not handle..... even tho he has cross platform porn ( lesbian, trans gay, bi etc ) I really wanted to get inside his head but he was bi polar depressive so it was hard to work out what was him and what was the BID

as for the sub species thinking, I have heard it mentioned by some lesbians and they had a real dislike of males... however their lesbian friends that have been raped by males, did not have the same type of thinking..... gay males tend to have more of a genitalia aversion and less of a gender aversion for some reason.......

try as I may, I can not find any studies that deal with this aspect of thinking, in any real in depth manner.... most of the studies I find, refer to phobias and phobic behievour but not the thinking or reasoning behind it.... so i am forced to talk with people and try and get inside their heads in order to see if there is any pattern at all

bi sexuals generally do not have a genitalia aversion, but I have noticed a aspect of sexual activity aversion issue in some bi people, a aversion to same sex contact, with the opposite gender, IE bi females that are not interested in M/M sex and bi males that have no interest in F / F sex.......

I would love to see a study done that focuses on the aspects of gender aversion v's genitalia aversion and if its sexuality or social influence that is one of the main reasonings for the issue.......

[BiDaveDtown]

Frankly, I would rather that u don't agree with me, because I find anything resembling support from you quite embarrassing.. there are gay men and women who are as you say, but such is your own homophobia that what I think is based on quite a different premise from anything you have to say. Too bad. LOL way to be a hypocrite and completely ignore and disregard your signature/personal philosophy about people: "Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you." At least now you're admitting that there actually are biphobic gay men and lesbians unlike how you've denied them before. It's not based on homophobia that I wrote about them and how we do experience biphobia and bisexual erasure from them. Just look at the posts on this site where bisexual men and women will write about experiencing biphobia and bisexual erasure from gay men and lesbians, as well as the G&L/LGBT media and even mainstream media who practice biphobia and bisexual erasure yet should know better.

[BiDaveDtown]

I used to live in a shared house with a gay man and a lesbian, years ago.... the gay guy had genitalia aversion... the idea of sex with females was not a issue, but thinking about the female genitalia was something he could not handle..... even tho he has cross platform porn ( lesbian, trans gay, bi etc ) I really wanted to get inside his head but he was bi polar depressive so it was hard to work out what was him and what was the BID as for the sub species thinking, I have heard it mentioned by some lesbians and they had a real dislike of males... however their lesbian friends that have been raped by males, did not have the same type of thinking..... gay males tend to have more of a genitalia aversion and less of a gender aversion for some reason....... try as I may, I can not find any studies that deal with this aspect of thinking, in any real in depth manner.... most of the studies I find, refer to phobias and phobic behievour but not the thinking or reasoning behind it.... so i am forced to talk with people and try and get inside their heads in order to see if there is any pattern at all bi sexuals generally do not have a genitalia aversion, but I have noticed a aspect of sexual activity aversion issue in some bi people, a aversion to same sex contact, with the opposite gender, IE bi females that are not interested in M/M sex and bi males that have no interest in F / F sex....... I would love to see a study done that focuses on the aspects of gender aversion v's genitalia aversion and if its sexuality or social influence that is one of the main reasonings for the issue....... Not all gay men are the way you described and they don't all act like the "OMG ewwwwwwwwwwwww! A vagina!" or the "ewwwwwww! A woman!" type. I know gay men who have never had sex with women and even they don't like how some gay men react that way towards women or seeing women's genitals, and they think it's silly and misogynistic. I have some gay male friends who told me how they did have sex with women when they were closeted and trying to be "straight" but how sex with women and seeing a woman naked and in person did not gross them out but they were not turned on by her or sexually attracted to the woman or any women at all.

[Long Duck Dong]

and I never said they did.......dave....... hence the usage of the word SOME.. it is a word that refers to a quantity of a whole, not all, a portion..... a example of the word SOME, can be used in the following statement " dave read some of my post, not all of it " .....

[darkeyes]

Too bad. LOL way to be a hypocrite and completely ignore and disregard your signature/personal philosophy about people: "Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you." At least now you're admitting that there actually are biphobic gay men and lesbians unlike how you've denied them before. It's not based on homophobia that I wrote about them and how we do experience biphobia and bisexual erasure from them. Just look at the posts on this site where bisexual men and women will write about experiencing biphobia and bisexual erasure from gay men and lesbians, as well as the G&L/LGBT media and even mainstream media who practice biphobia and bisexual erasure yet should know better.
You will find nowhere a single word of denial written or spoken by me that some gays and lesbians are both bi-phobic and are quite happy to pursue the objective of bi-erasure.. I have always admitted that there are lesbians and gay men who do act just so.. and nothing I have said contradicts my signature..that can be read two ways....I suggest you think about that. However, there are times I will not like what others say and will say so and will say why.. I usually do not like what you say or how you say it and do say so.. I will upset people by saying what I say and if that is the case then please, return it to me in spades if u wish. But what you are sexually? I understand all too well, and accept it and wish u well with it. I do not only tolerate it, I accept it glady, defend it willingly and will fight to the enth degree in defence of your right to be yourself... sexually.. even in the face of any criticism from other lesbians or gay men... I will also defend to the end your right to express what you say, but if I think anyone is talking through their arse then I will say so..none of that is contrary to my signature.. that is a disagreement between two people.. a strong disagreement.. I even accept and defend your right to your homophobia.. but don't expect me to sit back and let you have a free run with it..

[tenni]

Can we get off ur favourite topic, Tenni?

darkeyes
Can we get him from twisting every thread to be about his favourite topic: himself ....LDD the martyr saint teacher to all we dumb bisexuals.

If someone shovels biphobic nonsense under a pretense of taking an alternative (biphobic) view why should other bisexuals let it pass as the truth?

[BiDaveDtown]

You will find nowhere a single word of denial written or spoken by me that some gays and lesbians are both bi-phobic and are quite happy to pursue the objective of bi-erasure.. I have always admitted that there are lesbians and gay men who do act just so.. and nothing I have said contradicts my signature..that can be read two ways....I suggest you think about that. However, there are times I will not like what others say and will say so and will say why.. I usually do not like what you say or how you say it and do say so.. I will upset people by saying what I say and if that is the case then please, return it to me in spades if u wish. But what you are sexually? I understand all too well, and accept it and wish u well with it. I do not only tolerate it, I accept it glady, defend it willingly and will fight to the enth degree in defence of your right to be yourself... sexually.. even in the face of any criticism from other lesbians or gay men... I will also defend to the end your right to express what you say, but if I think anyone is talking through their arse then I will say so..none of that is contrary to my signature.. that is a disagreement between two people.. a strong disagreement.. I even accept and defend your right to your homophobia.. but don't expect me to sit back and let you have a free run with it.. Riiiiiight. :rolleyes: It's not homophobia to say that a lot of gay men and lesbian women are biphobic and do practice bisexual erasure. I'm not homophobic even if you want to play the victim/martyr and claim that myself and other bisexuals here on this site are. The non specific attacks on anybody here who says one thing about any subject that you don't agree with that you seem to feel or claim you have a tie to when you don't at all. If you think what was said was homophobic or even biphobic, then please point it out. Otherwise you may as well by a 5 year old child just putting your fingers in your ears, throwing a tempter tantrum, and sticking her tongue out, and crying when she doesn't get her way and when people don't agree with her. FYI LDD's post about lesbians starting to not find sex with men or men's genitals to be a major dislike, or having a distrust towards the male gender after they've been raped was not only homophobic and wrong, but it's misogynistic too.

[IanBorthwick]

Point of Order: Being intolerant of others intolerance(ie biphobia/bi-erasure) is not a phobia(homophobia or other) of any kind, it's irritation and righteous indignation. Only the ignorant get those mixed up, and those with an agenda purposely confuse them.

If I had the time or inclination I'd search for the exact quote from King, but I figure mine will suffice. Please stop with the red herrings, it's not just fish that stink when tossed to the deck.

[darkeyes]

Staceyann Chin recently wrote the following in Facebook in response to a discussion over her own question... "After someone engages in a same sex romance, or tryst, do you think they can claim to be heterosexual or straight?" What she wrote is something I have no difficulty with but her rhetoric in Facebook is not matched by her rhetoric in the Guardian...

What she said was "
I get that the individual has the right to self define. So I'm not in any quarrel with that. It does however do not preclude an interrogation of the matter. That said, I wonder why the question always has to be what makes you "less" of a lesbian, or a straight person, or a gay person. I do not privilege any sexual identity over another. These labels mean nothing about our value. They simply denote what one has done, or is wont to do, or not do. So my being a lesbian is really about my wanting to only partner with, and being largely attracted to women who partner with other women. If I found myself dabbling in a little sex with men, I would claim a bisexual identity- simply because it denotes my desire to engage with men in some intimate way- even if it is only about sex. The labels, if they were equally valued by everyone, could really be used to clue people in, and if you needed to change, it wouldn't be problematic. Only indicative of what you are now open to, and what you are closed off from. And I say that last bit, because I absolutely think we all have the ability to move along the continuum of sexuality. The label just tells folks how much movement or how little movement you are willing to allow. And that, I believe, is my motherfucking right!"

[worryman]

I am new here, not sure how or where to post, But my question is about my wife. She had a fantasy about sleeping with a women, I let her fulfill her fantasy with a friend of hers. Do you think it is possible for those 2 to just be friends again. I know both women enjoyed it. But she told me she would not do anything behind my back. As a man I don't think I could be just friends with someone I had sex with, Just wondering how a women would feel.

[elian]

Maybe it is different for women, but I have found over the years that lusting after and "chasing" straight MEN only seems to give me a broken heart.. If you approach a guy who thinks he's "straight" and he likes it, it only seems to create more conflicting feelings for them to be insecure about.

I would like to think that women have an easier time but of course I don't know.

For worryman's question - I could agree to "not have sex" with someone and still keep the friendship but I have to admit that I would have a slightly different impression of my relationship to the person after the fact depending on the circumstances. If there was a strong emotional interest there then you've shared something very intimate and made yourself vulnerable..you may have bonded with that person. If it was just for physical gratification then maybe not so much. There is also the one-night stand sort of thing - which can be very educational for a "curious" person but not really amount to much.

Are you concerned about your own role? My own experience as a bisexual person is that I love people for the whole of who they are, not just what is between their legs..so if she is bisexual, she loves you and is committed to you, she will likely continue to love you very much.

[MelissaPDX]

I'm a bisexual woman, why would I even be interested in a straight woman? They're not going to be interested in me at all, and they're not going to like or want to have sex with me. It reminds me of the biphobia I've heard straight women say how if you're a bisexual woman you somehow want all women who you see.