Bi, bisexual, bisexuality and gaining acceptance.....

[Long Duck Dong]

Often in the forums I read about people wanting Bi's and Bisexuality to be seen as more visible and as a real sexuality....... but I can not help but notice the same pattern.....

1) the people want it to be more visible, as they are having trouble finding partners to have sex with....

2) its about telling others they are wrong for the myths about bisexuals and bisexuality....

3) they want bisexuality to be more visible so their partners will accept their bisexuality and coming out in a relationship will be easier.....

while the reasoning sounds good, the failure is in the thinking.......and the people that are doing a lot of the thinking and none of the doing......

being visible as a sexuality is not other peoples job to do.... if people want to be visible, seen and working towards a more visible social image, it starts with the bisexual.... not the person next door, not the milk man, not the bisexual half way around the world...... it starts with the person that wants bisexuality to be more visible......

imagine the gay / less community and how visible they would be, if things like stonewall never happened..... they may well still be a oft hidden and ignored aspect of society, but it took some people with balls ( including the ladies without balls ) to take some massive risks, and come out, stand up and be visible....and it took some very courageous people to back them as allies.....

yes the fight for rights has taken a good number of years for the gay / les community.. and its still on going... but in a lot of ways their fight for rights is different for a bisexual.... the bisexual is fighting for acceptance from family, friends and partners, and in some cases, the same rights of protection from discrimination and the right to marry a partner of the same sex / gender......

but a key difference is that bisexuals are oft wanting to be accepted as bisexuals and have the right to a open marriage and relationship..... and that is one of the key areas that bisexuals seem to be running into trouble one hell of a lot.......and some of the key areas as to why they are running into trouble, are

1) lack of honest and open communication in relationships..... all too often, the bisexual person has got into a relationship with a person and withheld their sexuality from the person, then struggled with outing themselves to their partner.....

2) wanting bisexuality to be more visible as a sexuality so their partners will see that its visible and be more open to the idea of dating a bisexual

3) forgetting that being bisexual and having a open relationship / marriage, are two separate issues.... partners can say ok to the person being bisexual and HELL NO to a open relationship / marriage......

one of the first things that the bisexual community is going to need to do, if they want the visibility and acceptance that they seek... is make a few hard decisions in their lives... before they start talking about being visible or being accepted....

1) do you really want to risk it all, in order to have bisexuality seen as a real and visible sexuality... or is it other peoples job to do it....
.
2) how visible do you want to be..... being out to your partner is fine.... and arguing that you should not have to be visible to anybody else is fine too.... but then complaining cos of the way that bisexuality is not visible or that its full of myths and misconceptions, is like complaining about the president then not voting at the elections.....

3) how true are the misconceptions about bisexuality and how much do they reflect your own life and lifestyle.... there are myths about bisexuality that are actually true about some bisexuals.....

4) how important is it to you for bisexuality to be visible and accepted and is it cos you do not want others to judge you or condemn you.... or is it cos you have a issue with other people and sexualities......


often people talk about how they get into relationships and marriages.... then after a good number of years, realise that they are bisexual.. and how difficult it is to come out to their partner and how their partner will most likely not accept it.....

having bisexuality more visible and seen as a real sexuality, is not really going to help there.... as it still comes back to you and your partner, talking about being bisexual and what it entails for you both and the relationship..... your partner is not interesting in seeing how visible bisexuality is... as much as they are about what it means for you, them and your relationship / marriage, as the token hot bisexual that is on the tv taking about how great it is to be bisexual and loving both genders, is not telling your partner about how the relationship is going to change, shift, adapt and with fingers crossed, survive the coming out, opening up and following a new direction.......

so the issue of being BI, a Bisexual and gaining acceptance and understanding in the wider community, is something that needs to be looked at realistically....... and that is something that a lot of bisexuals often fail to do.....

1) changing the * rules * of society, in regards to partners rights in relationships and marriages, is not going to work... thats a individual aspect of bisexuality... and you would not like somebody half way around the world, telling your partner that the new nature of your relationship is that the bisexual has the right to be with others..... cos that may well not be what you want either... so we should leave the nature of relationships and marriages alone...

2) we need to accept that a lot of the myths and misconceptions about bisexuality are true of many people, but its ourselves that have the power to change the misunderstandings about ourselves.... we have the power to change the way people see us as individual bisexuals, rather than try and change the image of bisexuality in others eyes and have them point out a number of examples that prove that they are correct about a lot of bisexuals.....

3) we are not going to get anywhere, by telling others to fix the issue of lack of bi visibility by sitting in a forum and talking about how others should be fixing it

4) those that are empowering themselves and others, to make a difference with bi visibility and acceptance... need to think about why they are doing it.... are they doing it to increase their chances of getting laid, finding partners that are open minded and accepting.... or changing the image of bisexuality in the general community......

changing a image of something in the public eye, is not as easy as it seems, when it comes to bisexuality cos like I said, the myth is often a reality for many bisexuals.....

1) bisexuals can not be monogamous or faithful ( myth ).......... ( reality ) we just would like open relationships and marriages ( individual aspect of bisexuality )

2) bisexuals are promiscuous people that will sleep with anybody ( myth ).......( reality ) there are many bisexuals that just want to hook up, and are not fussy but there is also many bisexuals that are more......mmm.. * refined * and while sex is sex, its not all that they are interested in

3) bisexuals can not be open, honest and truthful ( myth )....... ( reality ) I am not sure how many politicians are bisexual, but ........lol..... seriously, being a liar is not a bisexual trait..... many bisexuals do not lie, they sidestep the truth so there is a big difference..... and what constitutes lies and dishonesty is different to each person......

4) bisexuality is just a phase or the chance to fuck somebody cos we are horny ( myth )..... ( reality ) again the reality can be true of some people... and the phase aspect can be true of many.... but the phase for many bisexuals is not one from hetero / gay to bi and back again on every second day of the week.... its a side ways and up and down phase..... IE very interested in the same sex / opposite sex.... and sexually active to please, not tonight

5) bisexuals are too scared to be out, so they hide behind excuses and terms like MSM and WSW etc or they remain closeted ( myth )....( reality ) while that can be true of some bisexuals... every persons reasoning is different..... but I will say one thing.... I have come across heteros in the LGBT community that are too scared to be out cos of the way that heteros can be viewed by some LGBT...... and the larger aspect of not being out, is lack of protection from discrimination and the risk of losing partners, families, friends, jobs etc......


so yeah..... its easy to talk about gaining acceptance for bisexuals and bisexuality.... but often the reality of why people want bisexuality to be more visible and accepted, is not always about raising the image of bisexuality.... its more about a personal want, need and desire.... and that is a big part of why bisexuality is still not really seen as a valid sexuality.... and the issue lays within the bisexual community......

even in a country, like New Zealand, with its anti discrimination / equal rights laws, I have no illusions about how discrimination goes on....and how things can be made difficult for people of alternative sexualities.... but I do see much of the same issues talked about in the forum with visible bisexuality... and often it comes back to the same thing... the people with the power to change it all, won't or only want to do it for themselves and their own gain....

so i am curious, since people want bisexuality to be more visible as a sexuality and lifestyle.... how do they propose it be done, in what ways....and would they risk it all to do it ?

[LeeNorCal]

LDD, very thought provoking post. Thank you. This reminds me of the scene in "Milk" where Harvey tells his gay campaign staff that they need to come out of the closet, call their parents, wives, friends, fellow workers and the world that they are gay. As someone who worked on Harvey's 3rd campaign for city council, I have yet to do so.

Even in such an open city like San Francisco, openly "alternate" sexuality is not easy. And especially in smaller towns and rural areas (like where I live) those who are GBLT don't necessarily hide their sexuality, but we also don't "flaunt" it. We come to know who each other is, form friendships/relationships, but our next door neighbors most likely aren't aware, much less our employers, golf buddies, bridge teams or pastors.

That question, "...would they risk it all to do it" (make bisexuality be more visible as a sexuality and lifestyle) is something only each individual can answer, based on their own circumstances.

[Long Duck Dong]

no worries lee.......

I generally do not tell people to be * out and proud * unless they are advocating for bisexuality to be more visible, cos I have the opinion that if people want something changed, they need to take the first steps, not tell others to do the work for them.... but I am acutely aware that for some people that want things changed, that they can not *come out * to make the changes as its the changes that need to take place so they can come out or they face a kinda social KKK mentality but with the LGBT as the target

what pisses me off, is the LGT community is represented in the NZ government, but none of the bisexual MPs ( members of parliament ) are out or visible and a few of them voted against the civil union bill ( marriage for gays and lesbians and all other NZ'ers ).... while its not talked about much now, it did so much damage within the LGBT community and even the bi community ( the bi elitists and supremacists as they are getting called )...... and even now with the talk in some circles of bringing bisexuality more into the public view... we have the people in key positions that are bisexual and could add pressure in the right places, that are sitting on their asses and doing nothing to help.....

[Dapper_Fellow]

I do my best to be a good representative of the Bisexual Community. Maybe my situation is unique, but I have been told time and again by folks that I am the only bisexual guy they've ever met. As a result I usually end up fielding questions regarding myths about bisexuality, and homosexuality. What is key is to stress the incredible amount of diversity that exists within the bisexual community. This diversity causes many misconceptions, there are a whole slew of bisexual myths that married men who came out later in life face, vs. the myths that a 25 year old single guy who's been out of the closet for over a decade (me) faces. This brief and scatterbrained intro aside, allow me to address LDD's points in the order they were presented.

1) I would like bisexuality to be more visible so that I could find more partners yes. But that is not my primary motivator, my primary impetus is because I hate feeling like a second class citizen, especially when I get treated with disdain and disrespect from the gay community, which is also why I support transgender rights and visibility. I think that all of us minorities should stick together, but that requires recognizing that while we all suffer from different societal stigmas, our communities face differing problems, and infighting solves none of them. Increased bisexual visibility would hopefully promote greater tolerance from the gay community and maybe eventually the straight community.

2) I think that the dismissal of myths surrounding bisexuality is important work, but that it is work to focused upon after greater visibility is achieved. Bisexuality (male bisexuality in particular) is still not really on most people's cultural radar. After all there are few (if any) male bisexual characters or openly bisexual men in any form of media, and thus the myths that plague our community haven't had much air time....yet....I personally predict greater visibility soon (due to a simple matter of attrition), and an even greater religious Right backlash as they attempt to dredge up the issue of "nurture vs. nature" as a basis for denying rights to non-heterosexual people.

3) I think that realizing that one is bisexual while in the midst of a relationship must present a truly challenging experience. I can't speak to this because I came out before I started dating, and I make a point of letting my partners know what they are getting themselves into.

So there's my response for the first 3 bullet points, and here's my response for the next 3.

1) Honesty and communication are absolute keystones to a successful relationship. Agree wholeheartedly.
2) Can't comment, if I'm dating somebody, they must already be open to dating a bisexual person.
3) Definitely, open relationships and bisexuality are two different things. Hence the conversation that I have after explaining that I'm bisexual is that I prefer to be in an open relationship.

As for hard decisions to be made in MY life:

1) I already have risked it all. I've lost family, friends, and lovers because of my sexuality. I've lost my job because of my sexuality. I've been beaten up, abused, denigrated, and ostracized because of my sexuality. So to ask me if I would risk it all, I would have to ask in return, what do I have left that I haven't risked?

2) I am and have been out for 12 years now. I am 25. I urge people to come out if they can, but if they can't, I don't look down at them. But it is awful hard to date closeted people when you are out. In fact, I refrain from dating closeted people because it makes the oppression of an unwelcoming society more palpable when I have to be furtive and sneaky on a date for my partner's sake. I wouldn't ask somebody to come out to date me, but we would certainly have a lengthy discussion about how to make it work.

3) I know that many myths about bisexuals definitely ring true for me, and it's not intentional. I am polyamorous, I would love to sate my sexual appetite with both genders while maintaining a relationship with at least one person. Personally I cannot see myself settling down with a lady simply because I abhor gender roles and feel confined by them. I also feel confined by the concept of monogamy, it seems to me that monogamy and heteronormative assimilation are cultural relics. I am waiting for everyone else to begin questioning the philosophical and moral underpinnings of monogamy and heteronormative assimilation (and/or homonormative assimilation if you swing that way ideologically) and perhaps reach the conclusion that the concepts are in fact contrived. If monogamy and heteronormative assimilation work for you, then rock on! Be happy! For me, I feel too culturally constrained to want such a thing. Unfortunately it is hard to dismiss a myth about promiscuity with such a long winded answer (and I haven't even gone through the trouble to define terms here). So, to make a long point shorter, I accept that a lot of myths about bisexuals are true for me, but acknowledgement of these truths better equips me to dispatch falsehoods.

4) I like this point a lot. Personally I feel that those who confine themselves into believing that sexuality is strictly a dichotomy are naive at best and misguided at worst. It pains me to hear that I "must be confused" by gay guys, but it also hurts to hear "you're just experimenting" by straight people. It would similarly pain both straight and gay people to hear me condemn them for "not being intellectually evolved enough to question their sexuality and it's immutability". Thus it is hard to admit that I campaign for bisexual visibility at least in part to hopefully awaken the ability to question the preconceived notions people have of themselves and their sexualities. Such an admission is risky, it limits the movement for bisexual visibility by allowing an inroad for a religious Right "indoctrination" argument. Thus I rarely share this sentiment. Mainly I'd like to stop facing social stigma not just from bigots, but from people who simply have no clue about bisexuals because they have never met one.

As for the final set of points...here is my response:

1) Have to agree. As much as I would relish being in a multi-person relationship and the hypothetical tax advantages it could bring, it's simply not going to happen anytime soon. The battle to enact same sex marriages that confer equivalent legal benefits to opposite sex marriages has been a tough enough haul, let's get that nailed down first. I personally think that I won't live to see marriage rights get extended beyond monogamous couplings.

2) I think you pretty much said everything I would here.

3) I agree, and I am moving to a city to hopefully get a job in Human Rights advocacy and thusly put my money where my mouth is.

4) Well I am trying to make bisexuals more visible because I'd like our community to be acknowledged as extant. I would also like to change the image of bisexuality in the general community for the better. But getting laid more would be a wonderful side effect.

As for your breakdown on myths vs. realities...I feel like you covered this pretty well, I'll save all the myths that are true for me for sharing another time. Your overview is concise and well thought out enough that there is little need for me to write 5 bullet points to echo your sentiments.

That said to answer the final question you pose, "so i am curious, since people want bisexuality to be more visible as a sexuality and lifestyle.... how do they propose it be done, in what ways....and would they risk it all to do it ?"

I propose it be done by living life as an openly bisexual person. I propose that we take an active part in the struggle for Gay and Transgender Rights. By organizing with our brothers and sisters in the greater Queer community we can show that we deserve to be a part of that ever expanding acronym (is it still LGBTQ or is it longer now?) that attempts to unite all non-straight people. We need to be active in our communities, and by that I mean our actual communities as well, helping with feed the poor, get the vote out, educate and organize for causes local, statewide, and national. When you make the choice to be visible, then the opportunities to make a difference will come to you. Because I live in a small rural town I face a lot of bigotry. But I have also had the opportunity to hear people tell me that I single-handedly changed their entire view on gay people, bisexual people, and the idea of judging a book by it's cover. I have had the opportunity to help a gay runaway, and that was only because I am the only openly non-heterosexual person in my town that is visible and thus he was advised to seek my help. Having made such a difference here I seek to do more elsewhere, namely in Philadelphia, and towards that end I have been saving up for the move. Even if I can't land a job in Human Rights Advocacy, I intend to volunteer my off time doing activism, because I'll actually be in a place where I can! As for would I risk it all....see above.

Thank you for reading this post if you did. I realize it was lengthy and your diligence is appreciated. I implore all of you who wish to see bisexuality become more visible to make it so by coming out (if you can) and being out, open, and forthright. We cannot possibly expect progress as an invisible population.

Anger has two sons
Hope, and Courage
The Hope that things will get better
And the Courage to make them so
-Justinian

[axlton]

2) bisexuals are promiscuous people that will sleep with anybody ( myth ).......( reality ) there are many bisexuals that just want to hook up, and are not fussy but there is also many bisexuals that are more......mmm.. * refined * and while sex is sex, its not all that they are interested in

As far as your breakdown of myth/reality goes... I'd like to add to this. Straight Gay Lesbian Transexual/Transgendered or Bisexual doesn't matter. Every sexuality has it's fair share of sluts and man-whores we just kind of get seen in a more negative light for having our fair share just like everyone else. This is a myth that I truly despise.

On a more serious note: I never would have guessed I was lighting such a fire under your ass with the comment I made the other day (even if it was only partly my doing) however I do like where you're headed with this. I don't know if I agree with everything you have to say (mostly just the semantics of certain ideals that I disagree upon) but the hour is too late and I'm too tired to put up a debate. Still you are headed In a very good direction with this. I'll comment more later when I've had some rest.

[tenni]

I do have to wonder when bisexuals on this site will realize that we are reading more negative attack anti bisexual trash postings?

This is written by an intersex ,asexual person who apparently has not had sex with anyone for at least three years. He presents himself as a bisexual and tends to write only negative, highly critical postings about bisexuality.

When is the last time that we read a thread started by this person praising how wonderful bisexuals are? Lets not waste our energy defending ourselves to this person.

[Long Duck Dong]

dapper fellow, awesome post... I definitely enjoyed reading it.....not just cos of the sharing that you did and revealing how your life has gone... but also a view thru the eyes of a person in another country and of a different generation... I am 41, and you are 25.....

lol axlton.... my ideals are like everybody elses, ideas that would be nice if they happened, but I am realistic in the fact that every persons life is as diverse as bisexuality is..... so I was not pushing my views as the right way to do things... but as a way of looking at things thru my eyes and seeing the flaws in what I say, as you see my ideas thru your eyes......

the fire under me has been burning for a good few years, mainly cos of listening to people talking about how society doesn't accept them etc etc.... and then watching them do nothing to change things when the chance arose....... but yes.. I thought that i would see if I can poke a few embers into life in the forum lol... cos I know that a lot of people want to see a change in the way we are accepted and seen in society.... and it would be nice to see change and more acceptance in society

to me, a person that tells a friend, partner or family member, is just as visible as a person that outs themselves on tv or in the media, cos they can change somebodies view of bisexuals and bisexuality..... and that is where it starts..... all it takes is one person to talk and one person to listen........

[Long Duck Dong]

I do have to wonder when bisexuals on this site will realize that we are reading more attack anti bisexual trash postings?
This is written by an intersex ,asexual person who has not had sex with anyone for at least three years. He presents himself as a bisexual and tends to write only negative postings about bisexuality. He "lives" with an elderly gay man and has a "lover" living halfway around the world. Is this not a troll pretending to be a bisexual?

no its a person doing more for the bisexual community, than bitching and moaning about bi visibility while they hide in the closet......

I do not care that I am not good enuf in your eyes to be a bisexual person... but your BS is the same type of BS that people have to deal with from outside of the bisexual community......

you want to talk about trolling and bi phobia.... look in the fucking mirror

[Gearbox]

3) I know that many myths about bisexuals definitely ring true for me, and it's not intentional. I am polyamorous, I would love to sate my sexual appetite with both genders while maintaining a relationship with at least one person. Personally I cannot see myself settling down with a lady simply because I abhor gender roles and feel confined by them. I also feel confined by the concept of monogamy, it seems to me that monogamy and heteronormative assimilation are cultural relics. I am waiting for everyone else to begin questioning the philosophical and moral underpinnings of monogamy and heteronormative assimilation (and/or homonormative assimilation if you swing that way ideologically) and perhaps reach the conclusion that the concepts are in fact contrived. If monogamy and heteronormative assimilation work for you, then rock on! Be happy! For me, I feel too culturally constrained to want such a thing. Unfortunately it is hard to dismiss a myth about promiscuity with such a long winded answer (and I haven't even gone through the trouble to define terms here). So, to make a long point shorter, I accept that a lot of myths about bisexuals are true for me, but acknowledgement of these truths better equips me to dispatch falsehoods.
Oh deary Lord you've hit my philosophical g-spot right there!:tongue:
YES!! Question the moral implications of monogamy, and discover that there's fek all moral about it (IMO). Being polyamorous in a monogamous culture is like being thrown into some sinister conspiracy theorists wet dream. Top that off with being bisexual too, and you get the distinct impression that your in some 'Stepford Wives' film as a malfunctioning robot. Your told by the other 'working units' that you've got 2 sex components instead of the regulation 1, and that you over use your 'love chip'. Also the subroutine that dictates that once 'in love', sex with another defies that state, has totally messed up!
Then you realise that NO, your not the one messed up at all. The things that cause limits in others are negative and the prerequisite for feeling loved is oft self harming. I feel guilt when I pity monosexuals, but I do never the less. I wish they could expand their sexual attractions and experience both genders sexually, if not emotionally. And I wish I could remove 'jealousy chips' from people too. I've seen the harm that does to perfectly sane loving people. It's cruel, and it deprives their capacity to love for love's sake.:(

What makes it all so bizarre, is that few of any sexuality actually live up to the monogamous ideals. Even if your physically monogamous, your not so when it comes to your own mind. Who doesn't fantasise?:bigrin: And therein lays the contradiction of 'honest monogamous relationships' and the culture of possession being 9/10ths of the law.
"FUCK THE LAW! LOVE WITH YOUR HEART! EXPLORE WITH YOUR BODY!", would be an apt slogan for non- monogamous bi T-shirts.LOL!

[Long Duck Dong]

mmm gear, I am going to steal the " love with your heart! explore with your body " if you do not trademark it....lol.... and yes thats serious....

Bi-sexual, Bi-romantic, bi-passing the bi-gotry, was one that I saw in a pic at a LGBT parade and it was hand made.....

[Gearbox]

mmm gear, I am going to steal the " love with your heart! explore with your body " if you do not trademark it....lol.... and yes thats serious....

Bi-sexual, Bi-romantic, bi-passing the bi-gotry, was one that I saw in a pic at a LGBT parade and it was hand made.....
You can have it, but I doubt many would get dates wearing that (if they explained what it meant).LOL!
But on the plus side, it would attract like-minded couples together like magnets. Hmmm It might just work!:tongue:

[slipnslide]

Bisexuality isn't gaining much acceptance amongst my friends. I've made it pretty clear to them that it's a horrible way to be. The average of the responses is something like, "ugh, I can only imagine, it must be awful, I'd hate it" - and that includes the gay friends. They sort of seem relieved that they don't have to withhold their honesty after hearing my thoughts.

[slipnslide]

1) I already have risked it all. I've lost family, friends, and lovers because of my sexuality. I've lost my job because of my sexuality. I've been beaten up, abused, denigrated, and ostracized because of my sexuality. So to ask me if I would risk it all, I would have to ask in return, what do I have left that I haven't risked?


This is why most of us aren't interested in out-ing ourselves. I'm a happy guy. I like my life. Why risk that?

I thought about it, and for all the risk, there is zero to be gained. That's not a very good risk / reward ratio.

[axlton]

When it comes to issues of Bisexual visibility there are two roads we can go by as I see it. We can either come out in larger numbers and try to jockey for greater position with in the GLBT community as a whole, or come out in greater numbers and pick up the fight for ourselves. Either way it all has to start with us.

The reason I prefer the option of standing on our own, is because the GLBT community even though it tries to be "all inclusive" is anything but from what I can tell. The GLBT community is mostly composed of Gays and Lesbians who at best see us as a problem, and at worst deny our very existence. Add to that the fact that even if we do manage to gain some real foothold in this arena, we are still just lost amongst a smear of other sexualities that the GLBT represents, and that does little to gain us visibility in society at large. While neither road is going to be easy, trying to gain visibility by gaining a place of prominence within the GLBT community is going to be the harder path, and in the end will do little to further our cause.

I much prefer the idea of standing on our own because that will not only gain us greater visibility in the short term, but also a much more sustainable long term visibility. Fighting within the GLBT just to prove our existence is a lost cause. Standing on our own gives us a much stronger platform on which to stand and say to the world what we have known all along, YES WE DO EXIST, THIS IS NOT A PHASE AND NO WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. Though how strong that platform will actually be will be a matter of numbers, if there are not enough among us to make that stand, well our cause will never be furthered.

Standing on our own would be a real grassroots campaign, starting from the ground up and starting small, but if just a few of us would take on the fight it would encourage more to join our cause and little by little a true Bisexual community would form. It could take years, decades even but it is an attainable goal. It was no more/less difficult for the gays who fought so long for recognition and acceptance, but we can't count on an organization started by members a different sexuality to take up our fight with the same ferocity that they took up they're own. Our rights and visibility will never be as important to any other group as they are to us.

Now just a few bones of contention that I have with LDD's statements. Though I should mention that I like you're Ideals as a whole I consider many of them to be incomplete.



1) changing the * rules * of society, in regards to partners rights in relationships and marriages, is not going to work... thats a individual aspect of bisexuality... and you would not like somebody half way around the world, telling your partner that the new nature of your relationship is that the bisexual has the right to be with others..... cos that may well not be what you want either... so we should leave the nature of relationships and marriages alone...

The nature of a relationship has and always will be determined by the individuals involved in the relationship and no one else. While society may frown upon certain types of relationships it is still up to the individual to determine the rules of their particular relationship. No one halfway around the world can or ever will tell me that my relationship must be a certain way or that it must conform to certain criteria set forth by society.

I don't know if part of what you're speaking out against is same marriages (semantics) but that to would not fundamentally change the nature of marriage. While traditionally marriage has been between a man and woman, The true nature of marriage is at it's core nothing more than a vow of devotion between two people that love each other. Legalizing same sex marriage will neither dictate nor define what your individual relationship must look like.

Neither of these instances, however, implies any "right" of a bisexual to sleep with same others while maintaining a relationship with one partner. That once again is up to the individuals in the relationship and should be determined by them alone. Some will choose monogamy, others polyamory, but that also does not tell you how your relationship should be.



3) bisexuals can not be open, honest and truthful ( myth )....... ( reality ) I am not sure how many politicians are bisexual, but ........lol..... seriously, being a liar is not a bisexual trait..... many bisexuals do not lie, they sidestep the truth so there is a big difference..... and what constitutes lies and dishonesty is different to each person......

The only thing that you mention here is the capacity of bisexuals to be dishonest. Lying and sidestepping the truth while two different things, are both forms of dishonesty. You claim the myth is that bisexuals are liars, while the reality is that all bisexual are just liars of a different type (again semantic disagreement) just because some Bisexuals fit in with a myth does not make it a reality for all. This is where stereotypes come from, and this is what you're setting up a stereotype.

What am I willing to risk? That is hard for me to say at this point. I'm just now after 35 years on this fucked up planet coming to terms with my sexuality. I've known since puberty what I was, but am only just now becoming comfortable with what I am. I've come out to my wife. Coming out to her has been one of the most liberating experiences of my life and has made me a happier more complete person. But my wife has an unconditional kind of love for me, not everyone in my life is going to be the same way. However, at this moment I feel like I'm on the edge of a precipice, ready to take the plunge. If it came to say marching in a parade, attending a protest, or even organizing a real Bi-Rights movement, yes I'd be right there in the middle of it.

[PeterNZ]

Bisexuality isn't gaining much acceptance amongst my friends. I've made it pretty clear to them that it's a horrible way to be. The average of the responses is something like, "ugh, I can only imagine, it must be awful, I'd hate it" - and that includes the gay friends. They sort of seem relieved that they don't have to withhold their honesty after hearing my thoughts. Your so called 'friends' are bigoted biphobes and you don't need to hang out with people like them. A lot of gay men are biphobic and make no secret about it; but this just makes them hypocrites.

[slipnslide]

Your so called 'friends' are bigoted biphobes and you don't need to hang out with people like them. A lot of gay men are biphobic and make no secret about it; but this just makes them hypocrites.

They're bigoted biphobes just because they don't want to be bi? That's specious logic.

[PeterNZ]

They're bigoted biphobes just because they don't want to be bi? That's specious logic. Mate you and they can make up all the excuses they want, but by having them claim that being bisexual is 'a horrible way to be' not only are they talking out their arses about us bisexuals and the entire sexulaity bisexuality but they are showing their bigotry about us bisexuals and how they are bigots plain and simple. Unfortunately you will find a lot of people in the so called LGBT 'community' who are hypocritical and totally biphobic bigots like your gay male 'friends'. It's the same way if someone who is hetero and homophobic goes on about how 'being a gay man is a horrible thing, the gay lifestyle is bad, I'd hate to be gay, I wouldn't like my son to be gay, etc.'

[slipnslide]

Mate you and they can make up all the excuses they want, but by having them claim that being bisexual is 'a horrible way to be' not only are they talking out their arses about us bisexuals

Whoa, read that again. I, as a bisexual, say it's a horrible way to be. They didn't say that - they just agreed that it sounds awful after I made the point.

So as someone who is bisexual it's wrong of me to say that I'm glad I'm not gay? Why is it bad to be happy that you're not something? There's a big difference between "I dislike you because you're gay" and "I'm happy I'm not gay". Is this what political correctness has come to now? We can't express that we don't want to be something?

[Long Duck Dong]

lol axlton......

ok with the changing of the nature of the relationship / marriage aspect..... I was referring to the idea that has been pushed around the forums that the nature of a relationship / marriage with a bisexual, has a * automatic * understanding that the bisexual has the freedom and permission to meet their sexual wants and needs

I am not sure about you... but I have a couple of issues with it

1) I like to talk with my partners about the nature of the relationship, not have them think what I want just cos I am bisexual or assume that bisexuals always want a open relationship / marriage......

2) not all bisexuals think the same way or want the same thing..... creating a false image about bisexuals, is about as bad as some of the myths we have to deal with.....

what confuses people, is that I do not believe in marriage... its meaningless to me and I place no value in marriage...to me its a social construct..... and a true * marriage * for me is something like a hand binding, that ignores color, race, belief, sexuality, sex / gender etc and can be between two or more people ( it was the original form of marriage, long before the traditional male and female style marriage ) and so I do not hold with ANY of the restrictions of marriage... or in simple terms, if you want to be in a union with a catholic, trans, intersex pansexual and a satanist, gender undefined, eunuch... then it should be your right, nobody should have the right to say you cant.

I am a strong believer in that the rights to a legally recognized union, should be the right of any person......but that rights of each person within the relationship / marriage, should not be a given right on the grounds of sexuality..... IE why should bisexuals have the right to a open relationship / marriage just cos they are bisexual, if a heterosexual partner doesn't have the same right to have a open relationship / marriage as a swinger...

yes, I always support the right of a person not to be pushed into a open relationship / marriage against their wishes and nor do I buy into the understanding that they are selfish because they are not able to handle a open relationship or marriage and that a person that pushes their monogamous partner into a open relationship or marriage, is not selfish.... hence why I push for a working compromise in relationships and marriages but I am realistic that its not always possible......

DD and I both perfer a handbinding union, but the law will not recognize it legally, and her parents want DD to be married as its part of their values that two people in love are married.... so we are doing the handbinding for us, and the marriage for the legal aspect and for her parents.....


the part about the honesty and truth....side stepping the truth, is different in my eyes cos they are not giving a yes or no answer about their sexuality... they avoid giving a answer... and as for if its dishonest, is in the eyes of the people involved....
I view side stepping differently cos in a lot of cases, people are not ready to be out with their partner, or they are not acting on their desires.... that is different ( in my eyes ) to a person that is lying about their sexuality and actively indulging their desires

the trouble with that... is its obscure.... as like marriage, every situation is unique to the people involved in it.... and the myth touches on the understanding that bisexuals will lie in order to get what they want and also have their relationship / marriage...... something that is not true of so many bisexuals that are open and honest with their partners, even when it has not worked out as they planned.......


ironically a lot of what I talk about in the original post, doesn't affect me much at all, the issues do not worry me etc.... but there are many others that the issues in the original post, do affect and that is why i write things the way I do.... as there are many lurkers / forum readers that will not post but it can be food for thought and maybe some inspiration and ideas for their own lives......

so its not about me being right..... but about giving others something to read that may help, challenge, enlighten etc.....

[axlton]

DD and I both perfer a handbinding union, but the law will not recognize it legally, and her parents want DD to be married as its part of their values that two people in love are married.... so we are doing the handbinding for us, and the marriage for the legal aspect and for her parents.....

My wife and I did the same thing actually, we have two anniversaries, We were legally married before a justice is the peace and had a Handfasting ceremony the next day. While in America we could have a handfasting ceremony legally recognized, the person we wanted to perform the ceremony was a close friend who had let his license to perform marriages lapse.

[darkeyes]

Whoa, read that again. I, as a bisexual, say it's a horrible way to be. They didn't say that - they just agreed that it sounds awful after I made the point.

So as someone who is bisexual it's wrong of me to say that I'm glad I'm not gay? Why is it bad to be happy that you're not something? There's a big difference between "I dislike you because you're gay" and "I'm happy I'm not gay". Is this what political correctness has come to now? We can't express that we don't want to be something?
Am happy I am not bisexual and that I am lessie.. I don't regret the passing of my bisexuality for for all the fun I had during those years.. it certainly doesn't mean I dislike bisexuals or anyone else.. I live with and am married to one... I am what I am, so can identify completely with what u say slip.

[Gearbox]

Whoa, read that again. I, as a bisexual, say it's a horrible way to be. They didn't say that - they just agreed that it sounds awful after I made the point.

So as someone who is bisexual it's wrong of me to say that I'm glad I'm not gay? Why is it bad to be happy that you're not something? There's a big difference between "I dislike you because you're gay" and "I'm happy I'm not gay". Is this what political correctness has come to now? We can't express that we don't want to be something?
So what's your point about them not accepting bi's then?:rolleyes:

[darkeyes]

So what's your point about them not accepting bi's then?:rolleyes:
That wasn't his point babes.... read again..

[Gearbox]

Bisexuality isn't gaining much acceptance amongst my friends. I've made it pretty clear to them that it's a horrible way to be. The average of the responses is something like, "ugh, I can only imagine, it must be awful, I'd hate it" - and that includes the gay friends. They sort of seem relieved that they don't have to withhold their honesty after hearing my thoughts.

That wasn't his point babes.... read again..
His point is that his gays&straight friends won't accept bisexuality? What does that mean?lol
Slipnslide, please stop trying to convert your friends! We all know how fantastic you think being bi is, but please leave them be!:bigrin:
(Pssssst! Let them catch you in your tight whities. Never worked for me, but you never know!;))

[darkeyes]

It doesn't mean that they do not accept that people cant be bisexual... it means what it says..they do not not accept for them bisexuality... that they hate the thought doesn't mean as such they hate bisexuality or bisexuals..only bisexuality for themselves... I don't hate the thought, I just do not accept that it is for me.. probably a few of slips M8s will be like that... some gays do hate bisexuality as a concept and will never accept it.. but not all.. not even most...I don't aqree but there are others. It is but part of some human's condition... is one who, out of conviction does not accept something..is that person a bigot?? Sometimes..often.. but not always... we are such complex creatures.. we often have difficulty in understanding what any of us are about...

[slipnslide]

That's it exactly darkeyes. No one is anti-bi / anti-gay, they're just happy they don't have to deal with it personally.

[dafydd]

its a slippery slope slip. you need to work on embracing ur homoness. cos everything you're saying about gays / bis whatever is useless... you have no complaint over any bi or gay man or woman who can stand in a crowd and say who they are and love it. ...none. get to that landmark and then let rip. i dont want to sound harsh - not meant that way...but you can't hope to make things better in the bi community with your perhaps valid complaints if you're closeted. u need to be the change that u seek..fuck its tough but the rewards are great.

FYI every bi/gay/lesbian or trans person and even republicans somewhere carry around a little bit of shame no matter what stage they're at. can't help it. if acknowleded though it can turn into awareness of self against fucked up society and then freedom from self blame (i reckon)
Some people like to incorporate the self-loathing it into S&M roleplay with a whip.
i think u should do more felating and less debating right now.
hard to find it an awful curse with a cock sliding down ur throat....i used to find.

[Gearbox]

@ Slipnslide&Darkeys- It's no secret that for gays, heterosexuality is not for them, and for straights, homosexuality isn't for them either. That's pretty much a mute point there. Same as for non bi's who don't fancy bisexuality. We'd ALL be bi if that wasn't true.:tongue:
So Slip, how do you measure how the acceptance of bisexuality is GAINING with your friends?
Do you look for signs of both gender attraction?
Or look for signs of saying nice things about bisexuality? As in "Oh I'd love to do a m&f 3some!"
And how is heterosexuality coming along for gays these days?:rolleyes:

[dafydd]

And how is heterosexuality coming along for gays these days?:rolleyes:

i should imagine its mission impossible with you in their bed G ;)

[slipnslide]

its a slippery slope slip. you need to work on embracing ur homoness. cos everything you're saying about gays / bis whatever is useless... you have no complaint over any bi or gay man or woman who can stand in a crowd and say who they are and love it. ...none. get to that landmark and then let rip. i dont want to sound harsh - not meant that way...but you can't hope to make things better in the bi community with your perhaps valid complaints if you're closeted. u need to be the change that u seek..fuck its tough but the rewards are great.

I'm not looking to embrace it, I'm way more interested in understanding it. Knowledge is my pR0n. Sex is for other people.

I don't consider myself part of the bi community and have no desire to be associated with them. Other people can all they want. But I don't believe I've ever expressed interest in making things better in the bi community. I don't think that's even possible. It just seems to be a bunch of guys passing chlamydia around.

[dafydd]

yeah, they skulk in and out of the shadows of the trees, craving a forbidden poke. shame really doesn't afford you much time or choice to be very selective. the guys get WAY cuter and cleaner when you come out. and they are fucking pros at what they do.

[slipnslide]

yeah, they skulk in and out of the shadows of the trees, craving a forbidden poke. shame really doesn't afford you much time or choice to be very selective. the guys get WAY cuter and cleaner when you come out. and they are fucking pros at what they do.

I don't have sex though - I'm not interested. So it doesn't really matter how good they are, I'd never find out :)

[PeterNZ]

I'm not looking to embrace it, I'm way more interested in understanding it. Knowledge is my pR0n. Sex is for other people. I don't consider myself part of the bi community and have no desire to be associated with them. Other people can all they want. But I don't believe I've ever expressed interest in making things better in the bi community. I don't think that's even possible. It just seems to be a bunch of guys passing chlamydia around. I don't have sex though - I'm not interested. So it doesn't really matter how good they are, I'd never find out :) That's all the more reason why you need to suck a guy off, get sucked off by a guy, or why you seem to be so uptight and screaming to get your arse plowed. Why live your life in the closet, in self loathing, or ashamed of your sexuality? If you're afraid of STDs that's why you have safer sex, get with a fuck buddy, or have a relationship with a partner and only have sex with them and be in a monogamous relationship.

[wolfman6]

That's all the more reason why you need to suck a guy off, get sucked off by a guy, or why you seem to be so uptight and screaming to get your arse plowed. Why live your life in the closet, in self loathing, or ashamed of your sexuality? If you're afraid of STDs that's why you have safer sex, get with a fuck buddy, or have a relationship with a partner and only have sex with them and be in a monogamous relationship.

I am not even sure I am posting this correctly. I just read the thread with the the guy disclaiming the need for sex or relationship(s). It alerted me to the people I have known through the years who protesteth too much. OK, you don't have to give a BJ or have a fuck buddy, but please stop seeing the world as you and "them". There is a very dangerous word sometimes invoked, "normal". If there were a "normal", and I don't believe there is, in a time when there is enough food and procreation isn't required to insure a future, wouldn't we want to be close to the people we admire, spend time with and love? Wouldn't it be "natural" to want to bring joy, pleasure and closeness to these adults? You sound so unhappy. Don't be. Life, is...really too short.

I am previewing this and it is appearing with the PeterNZ quote, and that was not my goal. I liked his quote. I wanted to address the original issue, but, oh, well.

[slipnslide]

It's not really a me-and-them type thing, but rather a distant observer.

I do know that I'm actually a very happy individual.

You can ultimately attribute my lack of desire for sex to Buddhism I think - even though I'm not a practicing Buddhist. Recognizing that desire causes suffering, I've taught myself to not seek those things that are transient, and recognize them as empty. As such, hook ups are empty and unsatisfying so I don't seek them. I don't desire a relationship at this point in my life either. Not focusing on these things out don't make me miserable, but rather brings a sense of calmness and peace.

Specifically, refer to 2 and 3 in the link below.

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html