TF I live in Britain

[darkeyes]

This article is interesting and provides a right ole contrast between u lot over there that live south of the Canadian border and us lot on this lil island over here.. its maybe a lil flattering about the UK cos it isn't in ne way perfect but its more or less right... ne ways... mite be gonna visit the US in July but it will methinks only b a visit... am stoppin' 'ere tyvm!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/mary-ann-sieghart/mary-ann-sieghart-be-glad-you-live-in-britain-not-the-us-if-youre-gay-or-a-woman-7561651.html

[mariersa]

Yes and in the end all that will survive is Love and cockroaches. Do they go hand in hand?? I dunno.

[welickit]

You might be better off visiting another location. We speak English here South of the Canadian border. Dial two for illiterate or call back when you speak English.

[tenni]

"Now we have a Tory leader, David Cameron, saying he supports gay marriage not despite his Conservatism but because of it. And this week his Coalition Government is bringing forward proposals to legalise it."

Well, good for Britain!!

One biggie thing wrong with Mr Cameron's thoughts. If two bisexual same sex people or one gay and one bisexual same sex people get married are the bisexuals now having to claim to be gay?

tsk tsk Mr Cameron. It isn't a gay marraige. Its a "same sex" marriage.

BI VISIBILITY luffly. ;)

[Hephaestion]

Tenni - does it matter? If only two peope are living together in a same sex carnal relationship then is that not homosexuality (homo = same)?

Right now there is more interest in the government's female budgie released yesterday 21 Mar 2012. It's mug the poor and the old and give £10k to the top earners because they might be unhappy. The last time this was done was under Mrs T when she expected the newly unfettered to invest in their own country. Biggest piss-up for a long time.

[tenni]

Does it matter? Hep

I recall Annika who is in a same sex long term relationship stating that it mattered to her (at times). Her sexuality and our sexuality is not gay. Presently, I am only having sex with same sex and yes it matters to me. I am still sexually attracted to women. I am not gay. In fact, this morning I feel asexual....lol I know that I 'm not though. Wait twelve hours.

So, yes, it matters and should matter to bisexuals. After all, the bisexual may also be having sex/relationship with an opposite gender person.

In Canada, the media initially started referring to same sex marriages as "gay" marriages. The media stopped because it was inaccurate. Just as Canadian media no longer tends to refers to people who engage in sex for profit as prostitutes but by the name that they wish to be called..."sex trade workers".

There is a difference between a same sex marriage and a civil union as well. Otherwise why bother having a same sex marriage? Canada never had a civil union but has had same sex marriages for a while now. We don't have "gay marriages" although occasionally some person may use the term, same sex marriage is the mainstream common term. Its marriage regardless of gender legally here and I think that is what your society is also about to do?

[darkeyes]

You might be better off visiting another location. We speak English here South of the Canadian border. Dial two for illiterate or call back when you speak English.
Not illiterate.. but I do have a sense of fun... seems ur's has been removed.... hope it didn't hurt!!!!

[darkeyes]

"Now we have a Tory leader, David Cameron, saying he supports gay marriage not despite his Conservatism but because of it. And this week his Coalition Government is bringing forward proposals to legalise it."

Well, good for Britain!!

One biggie thing wrong with Mr Cameron's thoughts. If two bisexual same sex people or one gay and one bisexual same sex people get married are the bisexuals now having to claim to be gay?

tsk tsk Mr Cameron. It isn't a gay marraige. Its a "same sex" marriage.

BI VISIBILITY luffly. ;)
It's as much a gay marriage as a marriage is a heterosexual marriage where one or both parties who are by definition opposite gender are bisexual... but I do take ur point tenni babes.. principally cos I agree wivya.. but in the end who cares wot its called? Lets get it done 1st .. 1 thing is certain tho.. if its agreed in law it wont be called gay marriage will it legally? Wot its called in the media and the general population are quite different matters... there we may have a bit of a struggle...

[jamieknyc]

Funny how if things are supposedly so much better in the UK, you meet so many British people, including women and gays, in New York. And they aren't just here for the money, either, because most of them aren't making a lot.

[darkeyes]

Funny how if things are supposedly so much better in the UK, you meet so many British people, including women and gays, in New York. And they aren't just here for the money, either, because most of them aren't making a lot.
I have no doubt of it, Jamie... but there r a surprising number of of ur compatriots here 2.. several are m8's of ours who left the US for what they believe to be a better way of life.. whether it is or not is for them not me or thee to decide.. what peeps find when they move elsewhere depends very much on what they are searching for.. for some it they will find what they search for, others won't.. but while those compatriots of mine over ur way may not be making a lot, neither are the Nigerian, Polish, Jamaican or Pakistani and a fair number of American immigrants here.. not at first anyway and maybe never... they hope 2 tho.. its called "the grass is greener" syndrome.. the search for greater opportunity and prosperity.. bit like moving to London from Scotland, Ireland or the north of England cos the streets are made of gold.. big disappointment... they are made of the same stuff as the streets they left.. people go places to realise dreams.. they come from all over the planet to leave behind persecution and prejudice and find greater compassion, tolerance and liberty.. all 2 often dreams r dashed wherever peeps go 2... but the dreams remain and a some, less than we would wish, do actually end up living them... both in ur country and mine...

I am not claiming overall that my country is a better place to live in than the US... but in the context of the issues raised by the article, learning of the US on lgbt matters and women's issues as I do from both my own and the US media (yes I do have access to the US media), and from things said here on this site and elsewhere, I do think we have it better and while we have many, many problems about lgbt issues and those of women, we are a much less polarised society on either, although I do believe that currently we are undergoing some real difficulties on women's issues which the article seems to ignore..

[tenni]

Funny how if things are supposedly so much better in the UK, you meet so many British people, including women and gays, in New York. And they aren't just here for the money, either, because most of them aren't making a lot.

Jamie
Are you stating that the article is wrong to portray the US as basically a rather homophobic society in many parts of the US? Rick Santorum's political stance on such things as abortion and the support he gets is not exactly supportive of a woman's right to make decisions about her body.

There may be many good things that draw people to live in the USA and a darkeyes states many reasons to leave one country and move to another.
The premise of the article dealt with reasons to live in Britain if you are wishing a same sex marriage and women's rights. Do you agree with the articles premise?

[jamieknyc]

Americans overseas (and I have been one myself) almost always become expatriates and rarely settle permanently in a foreign country and become citizens. Many never even learn the language of the country they live in.

There are somewhere between 4 and 7 million Americans living abroad, but three-quarters are immigrants returning to their native countries. The only countries with more than a small number of former Americans who have become naturalized citizens are Canada and Israel.

[darkeyes]

Americans overseas (and I have been one myself) almost always become expatriates and rarely settle permanently in a foreign country and become citizens. Many never even learn the language of the country they live in.

There are somewhere between 4 and 7 million Americans living abroad, but three-quarters are immigrants returning to their native countries. The only countries with more than a small number of former Americans who have become naturalized citizens are Canada and Israel.
Am not arguing with what u say Jamie, but don't tell me it doesn't happen.. it does.. but until a person snuffs it we never know whether that person will return to his or her homeland or not.. Brits have the same problem in some ways.. they are very bad at learning foreign languages when they move abroad top non-English speaking countries.... most tend tho to settle in English speaking lands.. ther r thousands of English peeps up 'ere for a start..tee hee... me mum being one! 2 things I find hysterically funny.. one is me mum's Edinburgh accent spliced with northern English words and phrases (she has lived here for over 40 years), and the other me m8 from US who speaks hybrid Scots/American without a roll of her r's.. her hubbie (also from the US despairs...) still speaks like he did when he lived there.. she btw has no intention of ever returning home except to visit and hubbie feels much the same.. but who knows.. they may still yet.. just like me m8 in Seattle whom I visit in July may yet come home to stay... she btw also speaks an odd mixture of Edinburgh Scots and American English.. but as I said.. we never can tell until we are dead where we will end up.. and even then it's kind of out of our hands!!!

[jamieknyc]

According to t\he Pew organization, there are 350,000 people in the United States who wer born in Britain. I don't know how many have become U.S. citizens.

[DuckiesDarling]

Unfortunately, the media bites by Rick Santorum get airplay and people think all Americans think like him. We don't. For all of America's problems, I am glad to have been born here, I am glad to have the freedoms I do. Is it sad that the last Constitutional amendment was equal pay for equal work for women? Yeah, but at least it's there. I plan on leaving America but not because of America, I plan on leaving for love. Things are slowly getting better for LGBT here and despite all the retarded politicians trying to go down in history by introducing insipid bills like charging women who miscarry with murder... over and above all, we have rights and we use them. Sometimes, too much. But we use them. So for those who want to compare countries, do so. But remember that not everything you read on the forums or on the net is really how a country is.

[Hephaestion]

Tenni - The argument for distinction is understood but when one is having sex with a person of the same gender that is homosexuality albeit that one's outlook and interests are non-exclusively so. Enjoying sexual attraction and practices with both genders is the norm as far as I am concerned and so do not feel it worth pursuing a special recognition requiring endless hours of explanation and justification. So long as there is no persecution, then all is well.

[Randypan]

I loved the UK the 3 years I was there. Discovered my "gay" side there. Someday I want to go back especially want to take my daughters to see where they were born. I just think it's funny listening to people here whine about how high our taxes are here, try it there.

[mariersa]

You might be better off visiting another location. We speak English here South of the Canadian border. Dial two for illiterate or call back when you speak English.

I was gonna say something earlier (19hrs ago) but decided against it, wait for the real answer. It commeth(izacomn)

[mariersa]

Not illiterate.. but I do have a sense of fun... seems ur's has been removed.... hope it didn't hurt!!!!
ROFL ROFL x m x k= ROFL 4 ever I knew it I knew it hahahahaha

[mariersa]

You might be better off visiting another location. We speak English here South of the Canadian border. Dial two for illiterate or call back when you speak English.

wow maybe too far south of them thar Kanuks hmmmm anyway Hola Pinchy Chingon ( put in your own accents marks). hehehehehehe

[dafydd]

New York blows. UKers go there because the yanks are so sicophant to their accents, and treat them like royalty.

[æonpax]

`
...I would;


Use the words bloody and mum a lot,
Say Pip, pip, cheerio, God save the Queen occasionally,
know how many clowns there are in the Piccadilly Circus,
be able to see current Dr Who episodes when they are released,
dream of snogging with Emma Watson or dare I say, Pippa Middleton?
ride on the London Ferris Wheel,
referrer to the US as "the colonies",


and other stuff.

[Hephaestion]

The London Ferris Wheel....... moves at about 1 inch per hour and it's an eyesore.

The London accent is no longer cockney or West End toff. Mostly 'it am bluck' and in the West End it tends to be arab. So 'Pip Pip' and 'cheerio' are rarely heard, if ever. Whilst we think queeny has done a decent job, the rest of the hangers on don't help her nor does the murder of Di. The suggestion to name the Tower of Big Ben as Elizabeth's Tower undermines what dignity she has left (We must be in real trouble as the Royals are being wheeled out for public consumption)

There are no clowns in Picadilly Circus. Some are in Covent Garden but mostly they are in government. They make Boris look efficient.

One stood a greater chance of meeting celebrities while the BBC had White City and its other London bases.

You don't want to know how the US is referred to; many people think that Obama runs the UK too and that Cameron was summoned to kiss arse and give account of how American we are becoming.

[darkeyes]

`
...I would;


Use the words bloody and mum a lot,
Say Pip, pip, cheerio, God save the Queen occasionally,
know how many clowns there are in the Piccadilly Circus,
be able to see current Dr Who episodes when they are released,
dream of snogging with Emma Watson or dare I say, Pippa Middleton?
ride on the London Ferris Wheel,
referrer to the US as "the colonies",
and other stuff.
U say "God save the queen" just once, babes, u an me r gonna fall out... an snog the Middleton woman? I take it thats a jest so will letya off... fashion icon wiv not an ounce of fashion sense an anotha parasite 2 boot.. an Dr Who? May havta stop watching now Karen Gillan is leavin... u shud c the plastic doll they r replacin' 'er wiv!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17456505

Ugh!!!!

[æonpax]

U say "God save the queen" just once, babes, u an me r gonna fall out... an snog the Middleton woman? I take it thats a jest so will letya off... fashion icon wiv not an ounce of fashion sense an anotha parasite 2 boot.. an Dr Who? May havta stop watching now Karen Gillan is leavin... u shud c the plastic doll they r replacin' 'er wiv!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17456505 Ugh!!!!

`
Just a bit of satire mixed up in that post. Coming from the land of Monty Python and Benny Hill, I'm sure you can appreciate it.

I was in the UK/London once and was there long enough to take of those tours for Americans. The guide was a friendly, outgoing and proper chap but I decided to annoy him anyways. After a brief explanation of where we were going, he asked if we had any questions. I asked him how many clowns there were in the Piccadilly Circus. He chuckled and somewhat condescendingly replied that the Piccadilly Circus was a place, not a circus. Ok…but then another person asked him the same exact question and while a tad exasperated, he went over same explanation. A third person then asked the same question in a different way…now he was starting to get annoyed. By the fourth same question, it dawned on him that we were pulling his leg and he laughed it off. Nonetheless, that same question kept popping up during our one hour tour and he just stopped paying attention to it…much to our delight.

LOL...and what may I ask, is wrong with the Middleton woman?

[void()]

Americans overseas (and I have been one myself) almost always become expatriates (http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/expatriates) and rarely settle permanently in a foreign country and become citizens.

Your sentence does not make sense. Please refer to the definition of expatriate. And your sentence says Americans abroad almost always become expatriates, then, you say they rarely reside or settle permanently in a foreign country. It is very contradictory when have said one thing, then the exact opposite in the same sentence/breath.

What are you saying?

[jamieknyc]

An expatriate is a person who lives for some extended period of time in a foreign country, remains a citizen of their own country, and does not seek citizenship or adopt the language or culture of the foreign country they live in. In contrast, an immigrant is someone who goes to another country intending to leave their own country permanently and to become a citizen and adopt the customs, language and way of life of the country they are immigrating to.

[void()]

The definitions themselves are confusing as well. Both say a person whom lives in another country. Expatriates may be exiles from a mother country, where as immigrants are not specifically exiles and seem to be excluded from that definition. And then to make matters fairly more clear we also have the word emigrant which has similar meaning. All three live in other countries, with it seems expatriates being exclusively defined as exiles. That is Collin's Dictionary. American Heritage's shot at these words seems in collusion with Collin's. Although;


VERB:
intr.


To give up residence in one's homeland.
To renounce allegiance to one's homeland.

NOUN:
(-http://l.yimg.com/a/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/ibreve.gift, -http://l.yimg.com/a/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/amacr.gifthttp://l.yimg.com/a/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/lprime.gif)

One who has taken up residence in a foreign country.
One who has renounced one's native land.


http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/expatriate


No wonder folks have difficulty in expressing themselves.

[jamieknyc]

Exiles, expatriates and emigrants are not the same thing.

An exile is someone who left their native country involuntarily, or from fear of persecution. if you are one of the Cubans in Miami who fled from Castro, you are a Cuban exile.

An expatriate is someone who remains a citizen of their own country, but who chooses to live somewhere else, without becoming a citizen of that country. Ernest Hemingway and Gertrude Stein were expatriates living in Paris.

An emigrant is a person who leaves their native country intending to become a citizen of another country. They are emigrants from their own country and immigrants in their new one.

[nutme]

ex·pa·tri·ate   /v. ɛksˈpeɪtriˌeɪt or, especially Brit., -ˈpætri-; adj., n. ɛksˈpeɪtriɪt, -ˌeɪt or, especially Brit., -ˈpætri-/ Show Spelled [v. eks-pey-tree-eyt or, especially Brit., -pa-tree-; adj., n. eks-pey-tree-it, -eyt or, especially Brit., -pa-tree-] Show IPA verb, -at·ed, -at·ing, adjective, noun
verb (used with object) 1. to banish (a person) from his or her native country.

2. to withdraw (oneself) from residence in one's native country.

3. to withdraw (oneself) from allegiance to one's country.


verb (used without object) 4. to become an expatriate: He expatriated from his homeland.

[void()]

I still find the words confusing, and digress, debating perception of words is off limits. The editorial board proclaims any debate involving perception, may also involve expression of opinion. Not allowed to express opinion in communication, as par their directive. Thank you.

[jamieknyc]

Let me try to explain this by examples.

If you go to (say) Italy, and you become an American living in Italy who does not become an Italian citizen, become part of Italian culture and society, maintains your American way of life, speaks English in the home, etc., you are an expatriate.

If you become a citizen of that country and settle there permanently intending to become an Italian, you are an immigrant to Italy and an emigrant from the United States.

[void()]

Still confusing because all three do live in another country, by literal definition. I would call your fist example a tourist, the second an expatriate. Because in your second example you're renouncing citizenship in your home country, taking up citizenship in another country. The second one could be seen as an emigrant by Italians.

Immigrants are folks whom come to another country for extend stays beyond tourism, for work as an example. They get temporary citizenship in a country, permission from all the governments involved to allow their stay for an agreed upon purpose.

Yet, all three still live in another country, one not their native. And this leads me to confusion over the use of these words, and is what confused me in your use of them. You have let the mud sift a bit, water is still cloudy. Forgive me not having college education to base perception on.

Trying to understand these words and their use. Seems yet another dead horse. I understand your examples but disagree on your implementation.
That is not either one of our faults, I think. We just perceive these words differently.

One of us is clearly educated by a system for the purpose of being a professional. The other was educated to be a professional of another type and then shat out of the system. So, we do see things differently. Is what it is.

[pepperjack]

Let me try to explain this by examples.

If you go to (say) Italy, and you become an American living in Italy who does not become an Italian citizen, become part of Italian culture and society, maintains your American way of life, speaks English in the home, etc., you are an expatriate.

If you become a citizen of that country and settle there permanently intending to become an Italian, you are an immigrant to Italy and an emigrant from the United States.


I understand perfectly what you're saying here. A year ago this month, my aged mother passed away. I wrote her obituary. In it, I described her life in Germany up to the point where she emigrated from that country. From there, I described her life in this country. Her obit was botched due to errors from the funeral home as well as the obit writer at the local paper who changed the word to immigrant. So, I had to rewrite it, correct the errors which were theirs & personally submit the corrections. In the second obituary,everything was correct except, once again, the word emigrant had been changed to immigrant. I was very frustrated & peeved. Not long afterward, I discovered that writer was no longer employed there.