The Daily Texan: Bisexual students feel unrecognized in society

[Brian]

From The Daily Texan (University of Texas):

Students who identify as bisexual face unique challenges in gaining acceptance within queer communities and in society at large because of a lack of visibility and prejudices held against them, said speakers at a Monday event.

Shane Whalley, education coordinator of the University’s Gender and Sexuality Center (http://www.utexas.edu/diversity/ddce/gsc/), presided over a workshop that discussed those challenges, debunked myths and offered advice on coming out as a bisexual.

Whalley said bisexuals are often unrecognized within society and the image of bisexuals that people have in mind is often misconstrued by popular culture.

“For bisexuals, there is an invisibility within the broader culture and within the gay community“, Whalley said.

More... (http://www.dailytexanonline.com/university/2012/03/19/bisexual-students-feel-unrecognized-society)

[tenni]

I personally find the use of the word "invisible" having a two sided approach based on posters on this site.

Bi Invisiblity is acknowledged as a systemic situation rather than an individual "coming out" situation. It exists within organizational structures such as GLBT organizations as stated by the San Francisco study.(2010?) It exists in the news (married man has sex with a man is called gay and not bisexual). It exists in pop culture (tv shows). etc.

This is either intentional or ignorance(lack of knowledge awareness) by some posters as presenting a need for bisexuals to be out and public about their sexuality. In fact, Bi Invisibility is about media presentations showing people who are sexually and or emotionally attracted to both genders as being bisexual rather than gay(cuz if you are in any shape or form attracted to same sex....you're gay has been a public mantra of some GL individuals and media).

What Whalley is discussing is Bi Invisibility about being erased in the public (main stream) culture.

For me the point that Whalley also refers to the "gay community" and using the word "within the gay community" is a strange contradiction. Whalley seems to be practicing linguistic bi erasure. ( or was it the media reporter for the Daily Texan's choice of words?)

Are bisexuals their own sexuality or are we within a gay sexuality? If bisexuals are just part of the gay crowd then that supports bi invisibility.

I'm of the opinion that bisexuality is its own sexuality and we are not part of the "gay community". It is important that bisexuals practice linguistic and attitudinal approaches that we are visible.

The issue that bisexuals need to be public individually is a different issue for me. It may be a Catch 22 scenario though or it has been argued.(darkeyes in particular ;) Outing yourself as a bisxual and increasing the numbers of known bisexuals may help. I don't think that it really will if it is countered with linguistic statements about being part of a "gay community" though. Using the term "gay" genercially to identify all non hetero sexualities is practising bi erasure. Wiping out the significance that bisexuality is important enough to be seen culturally as distinctly different from other sexualities.

It isn't just students who face this issue but all bisexuals. Whether it is more acutely difficult for students than adults I don't know. Who is counting the suicides by adults due to their sexuality? How many teen suicides were identified as due to being "bisexual" versus due to being "gay" in the media? None that I know of?..Is that more bi erasure / bi invisibility by the media or do only gay/lesbian teens kill themselves?

[drugstore cowboy]

This is correct:
There’s a hierarchy within the LGBT community, and gays and lesbians get more attention than bisexuals,” he said. Popular culture instills a false impression that most bisexuals are women, Whalley said, because pornography and pop music feature mostly women behaving bisexually. “There are bisexual men, but we don’t talk about them,” Whalley said. “When you say ‘bisexual,’ for a majority of people, the face of a woman pops up.”

[slipnslide]

This need for everyone to feel they are "recognized" is an interesting pop psych phenomenon.

[Long Duck Dong]

the one thing I keep noticing about bi invisibility complaints, is that the bi sexual community are not really doing a dammed thing about being visible..... they just want to complain about how they are not visible..... it makes about as much sense as a sniper in deep cover, complaining cos the enemy is not crediting him with kills

if people want to be visible, then be visible, set the example, don't do the complaining while you remain closeted and hidden, while telling others how bisexuality should be more visible, its a form of hypocrisy......

with bi visibility, is going to come the opinions and stances that bisexuals can not be faithful to partners..... well hello people, bisexuals that are sexually active with multi partners are not exactly being monogamous with a partner..... so of course people are going to see and think that bisexuals are people that have a promiscious nature, no matter how we try to twist words and definitions...... and if we want to portray bisexuals in the media as people that desire both genders and sex with both genders, then yes people are going to see bisexuals as people that are promiscuous......

there is a old saying, " if you want to be seen as a rainbow, do not be a part of the clouds *..... and if bisexuals want to be more visible, then they need to stop complaining and start being more visible........

a lot of the issue has to do with our actions and how they are seen by others and that often means that they define us by the sexual action, not the sexuality.... so a man having sex with another man is going to be seen as gay ( the sexual act, not the sexuality ) as opposed to bisexual ( the sexuality, not the sexual act )... but we do the same with other sexualities...... and this is best shown by the idea that a person walking down the road holding the hand of a opposite or same sex partner is seen as either gay or hetero, not bi.... but the reverse also applies, we may be assuming that they are bisexual when in fact they are gay / hetero........


if bisexuals want to be more visible, then they need to be more visible, not sitting in a forum, telling others how the world is wrong while they do nothing about changing the world around them.... cos that is true ignorance and hypocrisy.... specially when its closeted bisexuals doing the complaining

[slipnslide]

if bisexuals want to be more visible, then they need to be more visible, not sitting in a forum, telling others how the world is wrong while they do nothing about changing the world around them.... cos that is true ignorance and hypocrisy.... specially when its closeted bisexuals doing the complaining

Maybe the number of us who don't really care about visibility outnumber the complainers. That would explain a lot.

[Long Duck Dong]

Maybe the number of us who don't really care about visibility outnumber the complainers. That would explain a lot.

exactly...... cos I have found the same thing in NZ, the majority of bisexuals do not care about who is bisexual in the media or how people misassume a persons sexuality when they are walking down the street holding their partners hands..... they have more important things to worry about......

over the last close to 10 years I have watched the bisexual community of NZ go near invisible cos they have what they want..... the rights to marry same sex partners...... which makes them equal to every other sexuality in NZ..... so they do not have a reason to fight on and kick up a stink about something that they do not care about......

in fact the biggest issue that is being complained about, is how hard it is to find other bisexuals cos the other bisexuals are happy in the LGBT bars, social groups etc.... enjoying everybodies company and not wanting to further isolate themselves by creating bisexual groups that want to exclude other people .......

how that plays in with drews original post, is that most bisexuals do not want their claim to fame, to be that they are bisexual..... cos being bisexual doesn't pay the bills or get them attention..... well unless you are already famous and you can use the bisexual tag to draw attention to yourself........ lol the age old * if somebody famous stands up for a cause, we should support it* type thinking, fell apart with peta supports posing nude and tom cruise spouting off about scientology....lol

not everybody is going to agree with who and what we are.... and seeking support in gay groups, simply means that you find the people that accept you... and ignore the people that do not accept you.....

[tenni]

If bisexuals want more visibility in society and to stop Bi Invisibility they need to be more diligent at fighting misrepresentations or no presentations of bisexuals in the media and in organizations claiming to represent bisexuals (GLBT organizations).

MORE COMPLAINING NOT LESS!!!!!!!!! to the proper places and organizations.

Walking down the street holding a same sex person's hand or telling your mom/friends that you're bi isn't going to do a damn thing to get rid of Bi Invisibility.

INSTEAD DO THIS AND MORE

1/ If you read an article in the media identifying someone as gay when in fact they are obviously bisexual to you, the bisexual needs to write and do MORE complaining about how bisexuals are represented in articles, news reports etc.

2/ If it is too soon to demand university courses on Bisexuality it is not to soon to demand that university courses such as Literature, Art History identify significant people who were/are bisexual artists, bisexual writers, etc. NOT gay artists etc.

3/ Demand that any organization using GLBT umbrella have at least half of their board as bisexuals based upon studies indicating that bisexuals are the largest group in GLBT umbrella.


ANY OTHER PRO ACTIVE IDEAS?

[swmnkdinthervr]

For me the point that Whalley also refers to the "gay community" and using the word "within the gay community" is a strange contradiction. Whalley seems to be practicing linguistic bi erasure. ( or was it the media reporter for the Daily Texan's choice of words?)

Tenni,

That may just be the "habitual" societal influenced choice of words...having spent some time in Texas I'm pretty sure the local "influence" would have been much more pronounced! I found Texans to be largely homophobic and unaware of ANY difference between bi/gay when applied to males, however the same didn't apply to females. I have to agree with you though, as long as we allow the above type of statements to exist without challenge we will forever be mired in misunderstanding.

The above is less true in/around universities where I suspect that both the youth and the more cosmopolitan mix of people makes them an island of sorts.

[Gearbox]

Students who identify as bisexual face unique challenges in gaining acceptance within queer communities and in society at large because of a lack of visibility and prejudices held against them, said speakers at a Monday event.
It's a sad fact that even when your an out bi, you receive prejudice and bi-erasure from the gay community. Not from ALL, but enough to make you consider jumping back in the closet, or pretending your gay for some peace, as a few I know have done.
I'm only out to the gay community in a sexual arena, but even THAT gets me scorn for claiming to be bi. As if being bi is a form of closetness, and it's their duty to 'educate' me. What it really is, is prejudice and oppression. The two things that homosexuals are 'supposed' to be AGAINST! If I FULLY came out as bi, I'd just be increasing the prejudice and decreasing acceptance. Those students mentioned, are finding that out.

Homosexuals are 'loud & proud' with 'GAY PRIDE', reminding people every year that they exist and are proud to be 'born this way'. Good for them!:)
They've done a great job at educating society all about homosexuality. Bi's and transgender's join in the spirit of LGBT, but it's GAY pride of course! Not many know what a bi is, and I myself know very little about transgender's. So maybe there should be 'Bi PRIDE' & 'TRANSGENDER PRIDE' annual events? With slogans such as "Wasn't necessarily born this way!" & "Don't have to be the way I was born!", etc.:tongue:

Bi's also face prejudice from monogamists. Even though gays & straights are equally promiscuous and prone to 'cheating' as bisexuals, somehow bi's get that 'label'.lol
It's noted that non-monogamous bi's actually present a reason to need open relationships that monosexuals don't. And it's not because they want another of the same gender as the one they love. To some who hold monogamy to be a respectful sacrifice and a gesture of love&commitment, that might be viewed as an excuse. But that is a issue that goes beyond sexuality, and one that's instilled into society. Something that could really do with a good examination on the whole.:)

[DC_looking]

Who cares? This overweaning need to be excepted? By whom? Jesus live your life. People who have this need to shout to the mountaintops about who/what they are strike me as being a lot like those who have a need to shout out their political beliefs. Insecure and maybe not liking themselves all to much.

[Long Duck Dong]

If bisexuals want more visibility in society and to stop Bi Invisibility they need to be more diligent at fighting misrepresentations or no presentations of bisexuals in the media and in organizations claiming to represent bisexuals (GLBT organizations).

MORE COMPLAINING NOT LESS!!!!!!!!! to the proper places and organizations.

Walking down the street holding a same sex person's hand or telling your mom/friends that you're bi isn't going to do a damn thing to get rid of Bi Invisibility.

INSTEAD DO THIS AND MORE

1/ If you read an article in the media identifying someone as gay when in fact they are obviously bisexual to you, the bisexual needs to write and do MORE complaining about how bisexuals are represented in articles, news reports etc.

2/ If it is too soon to demand university courses on Bisexuality it is not to soon to demand that university courses such as Literature, Art History identify significant people who were/are bisexual artists, bisexual writers, etc. NOT gay artists etc.

3/ Demand that any organization using GLBT umbrella have at least half of their board as bisexuals based upon studies indicating that bisexuals are the largest group in GLBT umbrella.


ANY OTHER PRO ACTIVE IDEAS?


thats right, tell others to fix it......... how about you get off your ass, out of the closet and be visible and do something about the misconceptions about YOU.....

this is the issue, too many people want to complain and expect others to do something about it....... but when it comes to be out there, actively doing something about it, they immediately back down and come up with excuses as to why they can't

so how about you get out of the closet and take on your local LGBT groups and demand your ideas are put into action and find out for yourself, just how much the bisexual community are not really giving a shit about how people see them..... and that is why you are not seeing what YOU want to see......

and then you come up with the things that you want to see... and see how fast the bisexual community push back and say, don't put us in a box, just cos you like living in one

[Long Duck Dong]

It's a sad fact that even when your an out bi, you receive prejudice and bi-erasure from the gay community. Not from ALL, but enough to make you consider jumping back in the closet, or pretending your gay for some peace, as a few I know have done.
I'm only out to the gay community in a sexual arena, but even THAT gets me scorn for claiming to be bi. As if being bi is a form of closetness, and it's their duty to 'educate' me. What it really is, is prejudice and oppression. The two things that homosexuals are 'supposed' to be AGAINST! If I FULLY came out as bi, I'd just be increasing the prejudice and decreasing acceptance. Those students mentioned, are finding that out.

Homosexuals are 'loud & proud' with 'GAY PRIDE', reminding people every year that they exist and are proud to be 'born this way'. Good for them!:)
They've done a great job at educating society all about homosexuality. Bi's and transgender's join in the spirit of LGBT, but it's GAY pride of course! Not many know what a bi is, and I myself know very little about transgender's. So maybe there should be 'Bi PRIDE' & 'TRANSGENDER PRIDE' annual events? With slogans such as "Wasn't necessarily born this way!" & "Don't have to be the way I was born!", etc.:tongue:

Bi's also face prejudice from monogamists. Even though gays & straights are equally promiscuous and prone to 'cheating' as bisexuals, somehow bi's get that 'label'.lol
It's noted that non-monogamous bi's actually present a reason to need open relationships that monosexuals don't. And it's not because they want another of the same gender as the one they love. To some who hold monogamy to be a respectful sacrifice and a gesture of love&commitment, that might be viewed as an excuse. But that is a issue that goes beyond sexuality, and one that's instilled into society. Something that could really do with a good examination on the whole.:)


thank you, gear..... you hit the nail/s on the head........ no matter what we do and how we do it, not everybody is going to accepting and tolerant of us..... and a lot of bisexuals can not handle that...... and you are dead right.... being out as a bisexual will increase the prejudice and decrease acceptance, which is hilarious considering it come from within a community that has been fighting for acceptance and tolerance for so long.....

with the gay pride aspect,.... the people are proud to be gay.... out, proud and loud.... which is fine, but the one thing they are not really doing, is defending their lifestyles...and I am refering to the gay cruising etc...... and thats based about the gay community in NZ that are very anti the public area cruising gays that are constantly giving the gay community a bad rep...... it would be the same with bi pride, hell yes, be proud to be bisexual, embrace it, enjoy it.... but there is going to be the element of bisexuals that will continue to live a lifestyle that will give bisexuals a bad rep and there is nothing we can do about it.........

as I have said before, I have been told in this site, by members that I am not bisexual, I have only been with males and females and I am attracted to all sexualities and genders, but apparently that doesn't mean I am bisexual..... so its not just society that is not accepting of bisexuals, its also aspects of the bisexual community..... and thats a prime example of why there will come a time that we need to stop arguing and fighting and get on with living, cos we will never have the acceptance and tolerance in the community that we may want, but if we can get the acceptance and tolerance from out families, friends and partners, then our lives will be that much more bearable......

[Gearbox]

Who cares?
Considering you haven't posted your poison since June 2010 and felt this topic warranting your unique psych profiling, I'd guess you care a great deal. Thank you for your deep concern.

[æonpax]

From The Daily Texan (University of Texas){snip/unsnip}Students who identify as bisexual face unique challenges in gaining acceptance within queer communities and in society at large because of a lack of visibility and prejudices held against them, said speakers at a Monday event.{snip}
`

This quote from the Texas LGBTQ site sums up a problem unique to bisexuals,



Bisexual relationships
Bisexuals, like all people, have a wide variety of relationship styles. Contrary to common myth, a bisexual person does not need to be sexually involved with both a man and a woman. As is the case for heterosexuals and homosexuals, attraction does not involve acting on every desire. Like heterosexuals and homosexuals, many bisexuals choose to be sexually active with one partner only, and have long term, monogamous relationships. Some bisexuals may have open relationships, just as some heterosexuals and homosexuals are sexually active with more than one partner.


Way, way back when Yahoo chat rooms allowed for private rooms, us girls had our own public room we called "Girls 4 Girls" and of course, there were always guys there claiming that as the room allowed bisexual females, whom they assumed were always interested in guys (straight or bisexual) they had a right to be there. They obviously could not read nor understood that bisexual females were not "always" interested in guys or 24/7 sex marathons with females. That kind of mindset is still prevalent.

I have sex with guys but it is limited and something I do not actively seek anymore. Truth be told, I've never fallen in love with any man, however, the same cannot be said for females whom I am attracted to sexually but more important emotionally. I've loved and lost with women and it hurt but that's how love is regardless of orientation.

I've tried explaining this to many guys but to no avail. They are stuck in their own false beliefs that bisexuality is just all about sex. Now perhaps it is for some, but not for me. This is the kind diversity within the bisexual community which makes it so hard to define but also makes us exotic, so to speak.

I have found that sometimes, (depending on the situation) it's best just to call myself lesbian rather than go through 20 Questions with the uninformed.

[void()]

`

This quote from the Texas LGBTQ site sums up a problem unique to bisexuals,





Way, way back when Yahoo chat rooms allowed for private rooms, us girls had our own public room we called "Girls 4 Girls" and of course, there were always guys there claiming that as the room allowed bisexual females, whom they assumed were always interested in guys (straight or bisexual) they had a right to be there. They obviously could not read nor understood that bisexual females were not "always" interested in guys or 24/7 sex marathons with females. That kind of mindset is still prevalent.

I have sex with guys but it is limited and something I do not actively seek anymore. Truth be told, I've never fallen in love with any man, however, the same cannot be said for females whom I am attracted to sexually but more important emotionally. I've loved and lost with women and it hurt but that's how love is regardless of orientation.

I've tried explaining this to many guys but to no avail. They are stuck in their own false beliefs that bisexuality is just all about sex. Now perhaps it is for some, but not for me. This is the kind diversity within the bisexual community which makes it so hard to define but also makes us exotic, so to speak.

I have found that sometimes, (depending on the situation) it's best just to call myself lesbian rather than go through 20 Questions with the uninformed.

So in essence if you are with a guy it is by choice?

Of course, if your with a gal it is also by choice. You choose whom you're with. Seems to me we can dispel the notion of bisexuals being confused and or irresponsible. We exercise choice, non? That requires clarity of thought, and responsibility. Culminating responsibility is also expressed in safer sex practices. This also betrays the aspersion of selfishness. If it was only the individual thinking of themselves, they wouldn't give a rat's ass and fuck everything on two legs, maybe four.

Aw damn it. Stop making me think so early of a morning. Please? I actually might make sense.

[Long Duck Dong]

`

This quote from the Texas LGBTQ site sums up a problem unique to bisexuals,





Way, way back when Yahoo chat rooms allowed for private rooms, us girls had our own public room we called "Girls 4 Girls" and of course, there were always guys there claiming that as the room allowed bisexual females, whom they assumed were always interested in guys (straight or bisexual) they had a right to be there. They obviously could not read nor understood that bisexual females were not "always" interested in guys or 24/7 sex marathons with females. That kind of mindset is still prevalent.

I have sex with guys but it is limited and something I do not actively seek anymore. Truth be told, I've never fallen in love with any man, however, the same cannot be said for females whom I am attracted to sexually but more important emotionally. I've loved and lost with women and it hurt but that's how love is regardless of orientation.

I've tried explaining this to many guys but to no avail. They are stuck in their own false beliefs that bisexuality is just all about sex. Now perhaps it is for some, but not for me. This is the kind diversity within the bisexual community which makes it so hard to define but also makes us exotic, so to speak.

I have found that sometimes, (depending on the situation) it's best just to call myself lesbian rather than go through 20 Questions with the uninformed.

lol its interesting that you mention how difficult it is to explain bisexuality to guys cos its something I have heard a number of bisexuals say.... that guys tend to be the most difficult to explain things to.....

even the gay guy that I look after, still doesn't understand what being bisexual is all about and thats after over 10 years of patiently explaining it to him, time and time again...

[tenni]

With regard to post 17

Discuss the issue not the person (flaming) is a rule 2 sir (LDD). You do not know what I do personally. I do not wish to make grandious, statements about being a great man, a victim or a martyr.;)

If I see in media a portrayal or misrepresentation, I will write to the media. I've actually posted such a statement about doing this in another thread on the topic.

As far as bisexuals (not me personally but all of us including me) pointing out to GLBT organizations the numbers of bisexuals on their boards, I put forward a rather large number (half of the Board). I see the point that bisexuals may as a group be less than willing to be active and sit on these Boards. That would include myself. I would have to know the organization better. I admit that I do not "feel" a part of the GLBT community and find it questionable to spend my own time working with such an organization. I am presently sitting on two non profit charitable organization Boards and that is really enough for me. I do point out bisexuals as a marginalized group to one of the Boards that has that as part of their mission and goals. This week I participated in a discussion on to deal with hate and respect within the labs of other organization by disenfranchised youth. Sexuality is not the prime purpose of either organizations though.

Some (well it seems mostly LDD) seem to continue to confuse actions to stop Bi Invisibility with individuals expressions of their sexuality.

[tenni]

"lol its interesting that you mention how difficult it is to explain bisexuality to guys cos its something I have heard a number of bisexuals say.... that guys tend to be the most difficult to explain things to.....

even the gay guy that I look after, still doesn't understand what being bisexual is all about and thats after over 10 years of patiently explaining it to him, time and time again..."

Uh...I think that you are the last person that I would want explaining what I am as a bisexual man to anyone. Even in this post you present bimen in the negative. You claim to be intersex, asexual, pansexual, multi mental illnesses, write constantly about sex on a web site but refer to yourself as asexual. Fek man. Please stop trying to explain to anyone what a bisexual is. It is little wonder that poor man can not "get it" after ten years of your uh "explanation". You are such an boutique niche of sexuality that you can only discuss yourself or should only discuss your own mix of sexualities and genders.

[Afroja86]

This need for everyone to feel they are "recognized" is an interesting pop psych phenomenon.

[darkeyes]

Homosexuals are 'loud & proud' with 'GAY PRIDE', reminding people every year that they exist and are proud to be 'born this way'. Good for them!:)

More bi peeps r becoming loud and proud Gear.. not enough..bout time u took a leaf out of the gay and lessie handbook and start shouting a bit.. yes I know its difficult for many bi peeps, as it is for lotsa gays and lessies even now who are still not out.. but if openly gay guys and lesbians have taught anything to bisexuals it is how to fight a war and get heard... bisexuals have been part of that war too and active in it.. but it really is about time those that can started shouting a bit louder instead of retreating behind the parapets and complaining 'bout bi invisibility and erasure.....

[Gearbox]

Fran sweetheart, it's those gays and lesbians that are amongst the biggest bigots that bi's face. I'm out to gays, obviously to have sex with them.lol But that for many is not enough. They think they are still fighting some war that bi's are copping out of by denying they are gay and having a 'hetero lifestyle'. Not ALL gays though, but enough to keep a bi's mouth shut.

Bi's should come out. But unlike gays, we'd face prejudice from all other sexualities, so it's no surprise that bi's are a little slow on that front. What makes that all the more ironic, is that bi's have no prejudice for those sexualities or genders.
From what I gather from the gays I meet, being physically visible doesn't effect the visibility of bisexuality itself. It can be denied and erased as fast as it's claimed. So that's another obstacle from gays themselves that they didn't have to contend with.
So yes we can complain, and do. But without a Bi Pride annual event, we're just pissing in the wind.:bigrin:

[tenni]

"but it really is about time those that can started shouting a bit louder instead of retreating behind the parapets and complaining 'bout bi invisibility and erasure....."

My dear woman. Speaking about Bi Invisibility and Bi Erasure is shouting about what is important for bisexuals. You seem to be contradicting yourself because it may not "fit" your perception as to what is important.

[æonpax]

1) So in essence if you are with a guy it is by choice? 2) Of course, if your with a gal it is also by choice. 3) You choose whom you're with. 4) Seems to me we can dispel the notion of bisexuals being confused and or irresponsible. We exercise choice, non? That requires clarity of thought, and responsibility. Culminating responsibility is also expressed in safer sex practices. 5) This also betrays the aspersion of selfishness. If it was only the individual thinking of themselves, they wouldn't give a rat's ass and fuck everything on two legs, maybe four. 6) Aw damn it. Stop making me think so early of a morning. Please? I actually might make sense.

`
1) In essence, yes.

2) Yes.

3) Not always, at least in my situation, males in particular.

4) The problem is, as shown by the "Down Low" culture, an unknown amount of Bisexual's are careless.

5) Certain hedonists, regardless or orientation, are into self-gratifying sex. However, while there are no stats to back this up, most lesbians I have met are actually tied down with a female life-mate and don't stray.

6) Drink Beer.

[darkeyes]

"but it really is about time those that can started shouting a bit louder instead of retreating behind the parapets and complaining 'bout bi invisibility and erasure....."

My dear woman. Speaking about Bi Invisibility and Bi Erasure is shouting about what is important for bisexuals. You seem to be contradicting yourself because it may not "fit" your perception as to what is important.
Don't u bloody dare patronise me, tenni.. I see no contradiction.. but I leave ur usual odd sense of what is important in ur own tender care... I will leave this thought with u though... if bi erasure and bi invisibility are issues so important to bisexuals they wouldn't exist.. it is to some, even many.. but I actually don't believe most.. and that is regrettable..

[Long Duck Dong]

"lol its interesting that you mention how difficult it is to explain bisexuality to guys cos its something I have heard a number of bisexuals say.... that guys tend to be the most difficult to explain things to.....

even the gay guy that I look after, still doesn't understand what being bisexual is all about and thats after over 10 years of patiently explaining it to him, time and time again..."

Uh...I think that you are the last person that I would want explaining what I am as a bisexual man to anyone. Even in this post you present bimen in the negative. You claim to be intersex, asexual, pansexual, multi mental illnesses, write constantly about sex on a web site but refer to yourself as asexual. Fek man. Please stop trying to explain to anyone what a bisexual is. It is little wonder that poor man can not "get it" after ten years of your uh "explanation". You are such an boutique niche of sexuality that you can only discuss yourself or should only discuss your own mix of sexualities and genders.

roflmao.........

yes, I am intersex, I was born that way, its a genetic aspect..... I am asexual, it means a lack of sex drive, .... pansexual means that I am attracted to more than two genders.... PTSD is from parts of my life and dysthimia is a form of depression..... talking about sex is sharing knowledge, understanding and wisdom......

and NONE of them stop me being bisexual !!!!! they just stop me being perfect........

I am honest, out and open about who I am..... that is the difference between me and you...... and its the out and visible bisexuals that are the ones that will make the biggest difference to the way people see bisexuality...... and I am proud to stand amongst them.......

[Long Duck Dong]

Fran sweetheart, it's those gays and lesbians that are amongst the biggest bigots that bi's face. I'm out to gays, obviously to have sex with them.lol But that for many is not enough. They think they are still fighting some war that bi's are copping out of by denying they are gay and having a 'hetero lifestyle'. Not ALL gays though, but enough to keep a bi's mouth shut.

Bi's should come out. But unlike gays, we'd face prejudice from all other sexualities, so it's no surprise that bi's are a little slow on that front. What makes that all the more ironic, is that bi's have no prejudice for those sexualities or genders.
From what I gather from the gays I meet, being physically visible doesn't effect the visibility of bisexuality itself. It can be denied and erased as fast as it's claimed. So that's another obstacle from gays themselves that they didn't have to contend with.
So yes we can complain, and do. But without a Bi Pride annual event, we're just pissing in the wind.:bigrin:


the bi pride parade... that is where people like me come into it, we are the ones that help organise funding, work with councils etc.... and find that there is no support from within the bisexual community..... they would rather join in with the gay pride events and parades.......

you are the type of person that we seek out cos you want the bi pride parade... its a shame there is not more of you...... but that is also the reason why its hard to make bisexual more visible and valid as a sexuality..... there is not more of you willing to stand up, out and in the open......

[Gearbox]

the bi pride parade... that is where people like me come into it, we are the ones that help organise funding, work with councils etc.... and find that there is no support from within the bisexual community..... they would rather join in with the gay pride events and parades.......

you are the type of person that we seek out cos you want the bi pride parade... its a shame there is not more of you...... but that is also the reason why its hard to make bisexual more visible and valid as a sexuality..... there is not more of you willing to stand up, out and in the open......
Well you got to admit, if you think about it, it would be a pretty boring parade. A bunch of men and women marching about in casual wear. I def wouldn't be seen dead in chaps with my ass sticking out in private, never mind public!
You might have better luck organising a Bi & Hooker Pride Parade.lol

There are plenty like me. We are everywhere and already valid. But we're just not flamboyant enough to put on a parade on our own. Great at lobbing our cocks out on the net, but that wouldn't do.:rolleyes:

[Long Duck Dong]

roflmao...... you have a point there.... lol the bisexual groups at the LGBT parades are pretty low key and they tend to not really stand out at all.......

I have this image in my head now of a heap of bisexual males at a police ID parade and being asked to flop out their cocks so they can be identified.....

[tenni]

"and NONE of them stop me being bisexual !!!!! they just stop me being perfect........"

You just don't get it, do you?

[Long Duck Dong]

"and NONE of them stop me being bisexual !!!!! they just stop me being perfect........"

You just don't get it, do you?

yes I get it, in the same way that so many other members get it..... you have issues with me and have been trolling and harassing me in the site for a few years now......and telling me how I are not bisexual enuf, or should not be calling myself bisexual etc etc etc.....

I am bisexual, get over it!, I am not going to tell people that they are not bisexual enuf to be in the site, get over it! , I am not going to tell bisexual females like rissababy that they should not have a voice, get over it!, I am not going to constantly tell heteros / gays and lesbians how they are not welcome in the site, get over it!...... and I am sure as hell not going to stop being out, visible and active in the LGBT community and giving them all the support and help I can, cos the missing 8th dwarf called bitchy is having PMS issues........

[drugstore cowboy]

More bi peeps r becoming loud and proud Gear.. not enough..bout time u took a leaf out of the gay and lessie handbook and start shouting a bit.. yes I know its difficult for many bi peeps, as it is for lotsa gays and lessies even now who are still not out.. but if openly gay guys and lesbians have taught anything to bisexuals it is how to fight a war and get heard... bisexuals have been part of that war too and active in it.. but it really is about time those that can started shouting a bit louder instead of retreating behind the parapets and complaining 'bout bi invisibility and erasure..... Actually a lot of bisexuals already are out, and have been out for decades. I'm one of them and there are a lot of us. Gay men and lesbians did not teach bisexuals anything as far as coming out or being visible. If you look at bisexual history you'll see the various ways that bisexuals have been out and visible when gay men and lesbians were closeted. Even Stonewall was started by a bisexual transwoman despite the way bigoted gay men and lesbians want to rewite history or claim that bisexuals were not there in the fight for our rights or having visibility. Most gay men and lesbians are closeted, not out, and most are or have been married or partnered with people of the opposite gender.

[drugstore cowboy]

` 1) In essence, yes. 2) Yes. 3) Not always, at least in my situation, males in particular. 4) The problem is, as shown by the "Down Low" culture, an unknown amount of Bisexual's are careless. 5) Certain hedonists, regardless or orientation, are into self-gratifying sex. However, while there are no stats to back this up, most lesbians I have met are actually tied down with a female life-mate and don't stray. 6) Drink Beer. Actually the whole DL or "Down Low" culture that you wrote about in #4 is about usually black and Latino gay men who are married or partnered to women and have sex with men and cheat on their wives with men and then go back to their girlfriend or wife and force themselves to have sex with their wife or girlfriend who they're not sexually attracted to at all. Yes there can be gay white men who are on the DL but a major factor in the difference between someone that's DL and someone that's closeted is that someone who is closeted does contemplate coming out; but someone who is on the DL is latino or black and never going to come out. As for #5 LOL do you actually believe that lesbians don't cheat on each other or that they never have open relationships? LMAO get out and meet more lesbians. Lesbians certainly do cheat on each other and it's actually very common, and as lesbian friends of mine have told me it's the worst kept secret about lesbians. They may claim to be "monogamous" yet a lot of lesbians do wind up cheating on their female partners with their other lesbian friends who are also cheating on their partners. Yes there are lesbians who do have open relationships.

[Long Duck Dong]

Actually a lot of bisexuals already are out, and have been out for decades. I'm one of them and there are a lot of us. Gay men and lesbians did not teach bisexuals anything as far as coming out or being visible. If you look at bisexual history you'll see the various ways that bisexuals have been out and visible when gay men and lesbians were closeted. Even Stonewall was started by a bisexual transwoman despite the way bigoted gay men and lesbians want to rewite history or claim that bisexuals were not there in the fight for our rights or having visibility. Most gay men and lesbians are closeted, not out, and most are or have been married or partnered with people of the opposite gender.


and who is this bisexual transwoman that you have talked about on a number of occasions, cos you never mention any names and I am very interested to learn more about this alternative version of events that you talk about... cos I can not find any mention of a bisexual transwoman in any of the stories and articles by any LGBT people.....

[DuckiesDarling]

Actually a lot of bisexuals already are out, and have been out for decades. I'm one of them and there are a lot of us. Gay men and lesbians did not teach bisexuals anything as far as coming out or being visible. If you look at bisexual history you'll see the various ways that bisexuals have been out and visible when gay men and lesbians were closeted. Even Stonewall was started by a bisexual transwoman despite the way bigoted gay men and lesbians want to rewite history or claim that bisexuals were not there in the fight for our rights or having visibility. Most gay men and lesbians are closeted, not out, and most are or have been married or partnered with people of the opposite gender.

I'm curious as to your information regarding a bisexual transwomen who started the riot? All information I find points to a lot of added up factors but the straw that broke the back of the crowd was listed as follows:


When the first patrol wagon arrived, Inspector Pine recalled that the crowd—most of whom were homosexual—had grown to at least ten times the number of people who were arrested, and they all became very quiet.[57] (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/#cite_note-58) Confusion over radio communication delayed the arrival of a second wagon. The police began escorting Mafia members into the first wagon, to the cheers of the bystanders. Next, regular employees were loaded into the wagon. A bystander shouted, "Gay power!", someone began singing "We Shall Overcome (http://www.bisexual.com/wiki/We_Shall_Overcome)", and the crowd reacted with amusement and general good humor mixed with "growing and intensive hostility".[58] (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/#cite_note-59) An officer shoved a transvestite, who responded by hitting him on the head with her purse as the crowd began to boo. Author Edmund White (http://www.bisexual.com/wiki/Edmund_White), who had been passing by, recalled, "Everyone's restless, angry, and high-spirited. No one has a slogan, no one even has an attitude, but something's brewing."[59] (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/#cite_note-60) Pennies, then beer bottles, were thrown at the wagon as a rumor spread through the crowd that patrons still inside the bar were being beaten.
A scuffle broke out when a woman in handcuffs was escorted from the door of the bar to the waiting police wagon several times. She escaped repeatedly and fought with four of the police, swearing and shouting, for about ten minutes. Described as "a typical New York butch" and "a dyke—stone butch", she had been hit on the head by an officer with a billy club (http://www.bisexual.com/wiki/Billy_club) for, as one witness claimed, complaining that her handcuffs were too tight.[60] (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/#cite_note-61) Bystanders recalled that the woman, whose identity remains unknown,[note 3] (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/#cite_note-62) sparked the crowd to fight when she looked at bystanders and shouted, "Why don't you guys do something?" After an officer picked her up and heaved her into the back of the wagon,[61] (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/#cite_note-63) the crowd became a mob and went "berserk": "It was at that moment that the scene became explosive".[62] (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/#cite_note-64)

[The Bisexual Virgin]

Actually the whole DL or "Down Low" culture that you wrote about in #4 is about usually black and Latino gay men who are married or partnered to women and have sex with men and cheat on their wives with men and then go back to their girlfriend or wife and force themselves to have sex with their wife or girlfriend who they're not sexually attracted to at all. Yes there can be gay white men who are on the DL but a major factor in the difference between someone that's DL and someone that's closeted is that someone who is closeted does contemplate coming out; but someone who is on the DL is latino or black and never going to come out. As for #5 LOL do you actually believe that lesbians don't cheat on each other or that they never have open relationships? LMAO get out and meet more lesbians. Lesbians certainly do cheat on each other and it's actually very common, and as lesbian friends of mine have told me it's the worst kept secret about lesbians. They may claim to be "monogamous" yet a lot of lesbians do wind up cheating on their female partners with their other lesbian friends who are also cheating on their partners. Yes there are lesbians who do have open relationships.

Oh God I hate that. I hate what these men are doing to these women just because they don't want to come out, and be truly gay. and that's the reason I am weary about dating men half the time.Well, anyways a young bisexual myself. I have always thought that a bisexual man would do better if he was in a relationship with another man, and just be in a gay relationship because it's guaranteed that most bi men stay more committed and faithful in a man on man relationship over a woman.

And speaking about being Invisible, we need to separate the good from the bad within the bi community so people don't try to overlook us, when we try to achieve postie goals.

[void()]

`
1) In essence, yes.

2) Yes.

3) Not always, at least in my situation, males in particular.

4) The problem is, as shown by the "Down Low" culture, an unknown amount of Bisexual's are careless.

5) Certain hedonists, regardless or orientation, are into self-gratifying sex. However, while there are no stats to back this up, most lesbians I have met are actually tied down with a female life-mate and don't stray.

6) Drink Beer.

1. Thought I read that correctly. Confirmation is always prudent.

2. Same as number one.

3. Not quite following this. Are there times men force you to have sex with them? Do your hormones overwhelm into sex with men? I understand sometimes you may not have a choice. I am seeking to understand the cause of why you have no choice.

4. Yes, understand that. Not denying there are careless folks.

5. Interesting to note.

6. Prefer rum and whiskey more than beer. A good scotch once in a bit is nice too. Good scotch for me is any over fifteen years old. As far as beer goes, prefer lagers or darker beers. Although, Rolling Rock or Coors light can suffice. Not a wise Bud here.

[æonpax]

Actually the whole DL or "Down Low" culture that you wrote about in #4 is about usually black and Latino gay men who are married or partnered to women and have sex with men and cheat on their wives with men and then go back to their girlfriend or wife and force themselves to have sex with their wife or girlfriend who they're not sexually attracted to at all. Yes there can be gay white men who are on the DL but a major factor in the difference between someone that's DL and someone that's closeted is that someone who is closeted does contemplate coming out; but someone who is on the DL is latino or black and never going to come out. As for #5 LOL do you actually believe that lesbians don't cheat on each other or that they never have open relationships? LMAO get out and meet more lesbians. Lesbians certainly do cheat on each other and it's actually very common, and as lesbian friends of mine have told me it's the worst kept secret about lesbians. They may claim to be "monogamous" yet a lot of lesbians do wind up cheating on their female partners with their other lesbian friends who are also cheating on their partners. Yes there are lesbians who do have open relationships.
`

As early as 2001, the “Down Low” phenomenon was identified as a conduit for the spread of STD/HIV by the CDC. Also that year, according to a study published in the Journal of Bisexuality,:"The Down Low is a lifestyle predominately practiced by young, urban African American men who have sex with other men and women, yet do not identify as gay or bisexual." Since then, numerous studies have been done but they were keying on urban areas such as New York and Washington DC, to the exclusion of how DL was spreading in the white Gay/Bisexual and Heterosexual communities.

In 2006, an article was published in Slade magazine, ~ http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/hey_wait_a_minute/2006/08/get_out_of_my_closet.html ~ decrying the lack of studies and research in regards to white males in the DL sub-culture. Also in 2006, an article written by Matt Foreman, then executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, ~ http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/exec_director/m_foreman_final_oped_4_08.pdf ~ pointing out that Eliot Spitzer (New York State Attorney General) was not only a womanizer but was also on the Down Low with other men. In his article, he blamed “racist assumptions” for the lack of any studies by the government, the media and even the LGBT community.

Other than a patchwork of regional studies done, mainly with blacks, we have absolutely no idea how many whites are involved in DL, nationally or otherwise. Making matters worse, most of these men would rather die than admit that they have had sex with another male. Without reliable facts, everyone is just making educated guesses.

As for lesbians, I just gave a personal observation. No claims, implicit or implied, were made as to it’s application to the general lesbian community.