Big Biz, Politics and Science

[darkeyes]

..and with America in the throes of its "fair and free" Presidential election year, here is a slightly different take on the world of big biz, capitalism and humanity's search to better itself.. o wot a luffly day out... just hope we get a lot more of them..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/feb/19/science-scepticism-usdomesticpolicy

[pepperjack]

Interesting food for thought, my mind is open yet also somewhat skeptical because on a personal level I feel I receive plenty of scientific knowledge almost daily whether it's online, television or my daily paper. Also, I work in the media, so I know firsthand the inaccuracies & distortions that can occur. Today's world requires a keenly discerning mind. You mentioned our current presidential campaign & tomorrow is President's Day, a federal holiday,but business as usual for most of the population. I watched an interesting interview this morning with an author who wrote a book about the most significant presidential decisions in our history. The first one mentioned was John Kennedy for deciding we would be the first for putting man on the moon. Just more food for thought.:2cents:

[jamieknyc]

The US spends over $300 billion on science, not including the military. Most scientists beyond the junior level hold tenured university positions and aren't personally at risk. What is really at stake is how that $300 billion pie is divided up rather than any personal fear of reprisals by individuals. Unfortunately, some scientists, scientific organization and science media, who oughyt to be politically neutral, have instead promoted political agendas for various leftist ideologies.

[darkeyes]

The US spends over $300 billion on science, not including the military. Most scientists beyond the junior level hold tenured university positions and aren't personally at risk. What is really at stake is how that $300 billion pie is divided up rather than any personal fear of reprisals by individuals. Unfortunately, some scientists, scientific organization and science media, who oughyt to be politically neutral, have instead promoted political agendas for various leftist ideologies.

Of course Jamie.. how silly of me to have allowed myself to be so duped..

..but Jamie... the leftist ideologies have responded to the science babes, more than the other way around, as has much of the science media, scientific organisation and many scientists.. you are about as right as there is no climate change or that we need air to breathe...

[swmnkdinthervr]

The US spends over $300 billion on science, not including the military. Most scientists beyond the junior level hold tenured university positions and aren't personally at risk. What is really at stake is how that $300 billion pie is divided up rather than any personal fear of reprisals by individuals. Unfortunately, some scientists, scientific organization and science media, who oughyt to be politically neutral, have instead promoted political agendas for various leftist ideologies.

US government research grants in medicine alone have fallen 42% since 1996 supposedly due to cuts aimed at budget reduction. The National Institute of Standards and Technology’s Advanced Technology Program (ATP)—which funds high-risk, high reward applied research by small and large businesses was nearly abolished at the hands of Bush, the funding has leveled off at less than half it's peak funding in 1995. In fact the only research spending increases since the mid 90's is defense/weapons research which is at an adjusted rate of 41% above peak cold war spending. That allotment reduces the spending in other areas further due to reduced over all funding. Most scientists in the US no longer discuss global warming or other "taboo" issues so that what funding they have left won't be lobbied out of existence by big dollar corporations like Exxon. All this while China. India and other countries have increased research spending by as much as 100%. We are truly being driven into the dark ages by the greed of big business!

[wry123]

We are forever conflicted between "mythos" and "logos." It makes for convenient political speech with more heat than light produced with every exchange. It is time to move into the current century with all the scientific possibilities which may be positive within an ethos of compassion. Silly me for being optimistic.......:)

[keefer10.7]

Of course Jamie.. how silly of me to have allowed myself to be so duped..

..but Jamie... the leftist ideologies have responded to the science babes, more than the other way around, as has much of the science media, scientific organisation and many scientists.. you are about as right as there is no climate change or that we need air to breathe...

Utterly amazing, and why I allow myself to still be amazed at the base rudeness of her is beyond my scope of intellect. In other words, you should shut up, Jamie, and hold still your unincorporated opinion. Utterly amazing.

[jamieknyc]

Fran. you are clueless about internal American politics, if you have ever even been here in the first place. This debate is really more about the politics of grant writing and awarding in the United States, a subject about which you know nothing.

Most scientists work on matters that are absolutely noncontroversial, and most don't have a lot of contact with the world outside the cloistered little world of their scientific specialty. Unfortunately a small number of scientists and a few organizations have taken it upon themselves to become involved in politics outside their scientific areas of expertise.

[darkeyes]

Utterly amazing, and why I allow myself to still be amazed at the base rudeness of her is beyond my scope of intellect. In other words, you should shut up, Jamie, and hold still your unincorporated opinion. Utterly amazing. Coming from you Keefer, being amazed at someone being rude, if that is what I was, is a tadge on the rich side... and fyi, I tell no one to shut up, and am always delighted when they express their opinions whether or not I agree with them... even you..

[darkeyes]

Fran. you are clueless about internal American politics, if you have ever even been here in the first place. This debate is really more about the politics of grant writing and awarding in the United States, a subject about which you know nothing.

Most scientists work on matters that are absolutely noncontroversial, and most don't have a lot of contact with the world outside the cloistered little world of their scientific specialty. Unfortunately a small number of scientists and a few organizations have taken it upon themselves to become involved in politics outside their scientific areas of expertise.Not quite clueless.. but with many gaps I gladly concede... and no I have never been to your little country.. but that will be remedied later this year.. but even that little visit will only fill in a very few gaps..it is something from which anyone who is not a resident of another place will suffer... or one not in a particular area of work for that matter... like a lawyer who seems to be an expert on the politics of science.. that is why we try and find out and learn when we are interested and concerned about anything... we try and find the information which will tell us what we wish to know...

...so Nina Federoff and the AAAS are wrong are they? Is that your area of expertise? The article is wrong? Or is she just some leftie idealogue?

[keefer10.7]

Coming from you Keefer, being amazed at someone being rude, if that is what I was, is a tadge on the rich side... and fyi, I tell no one to shut up, and am always delighted when they express their opinions whether or not I agree with them... even you..

A well concealed sniper looks like he's part of a bush until a .308 round comes zinging through your skull. Couch your words any way you want, but the intent is exactly the same. Somehow you have the idea that we are dogs who can be scrateched behind our ears while you're telling us that we're off to the death house.

[darkeyes]

Somehow you have the idea that we are dogs who can be scrateched behind our ears while you're telling us that we're off to the death house. What I'm about, Keefer..and have always been about... is trying to prevent u or anyone else being hauled off to that death house.. and everything I say, do and believe is with that purpose in mind.. sadly, far too many don't share that intention...

[keefer10.7]

What I'm about, Keefer..and have always been about... is trying to prevent u or anyone else being hauled off to that death house.. and everything I say, do and believe is with that purpose in mind.. sadly, far too many don't share that intention...

I am going to give you the benefit of maybe being altruistic in your world view. There is nothing wrong with that, save altruism is more of a fantasy than an easy reality. I do believe that you are well beyond a socialistic view of your geo-political opinions and tread toward a marxist world view. If I am correct, or even that you are a socialist, you do need to understand that the Hillary Clintons and the Barack Obamas of this world could care less about you and much less me. These are self serving people who usurp powers not given within a political doctrine. If you care about your family, your country, the world, then you would serve those interests best by working within the framework of freedoms given and not taken for granted. For those grants are all too easily being taken away from us, and not by the side that will herald in a new day for Frannyism, but much to your surprise, you'll be one of the first to get an ice pick in the back of your head like Trotsky.

[Hephaestion]

Are keeferand jamienyc in science?

[darkeyes]

I am going to give you the benefit of maybe being altruistic in your world view. There is nothing wrong with that, save altruism is more of a fantasy than an easy reality. I do believe that you are well beyond a socialistic view of your geo-political opinions and tread toward a marxist world view. If I am correct, or even that you are a socialist, you do need to understand that the Hillary Clintons and the Barack Obamas of this world could care less about you and much less me. These are self serving people who usurp powers not given within a political doctrine. If you care about your family, your country, the world, then you would serve those interests best by working within the framework of freedoms given and not taken for granted. For those grants are all too easily being taken away from us, and not by the side that will herald in a new day for Frannyism, but much to your surprise, you'll be one of the first to get an ice pick in the back of your head like Trotsky.

Being a socialist I agree that neither Clinton or Obama will care too much for me.. not politically at least, and probably not that much as a human being.. but that they have more empathy for people than their rivals who seem to be fond of tea before people and even more so in corporate interest than people who they wish to be little more than forced labour for that corporate interest... neither Obama or Clinton are in any way shape of form socialists so to throw that at me is something I really see no point in... they are equally in hock to that corporate interest but mayhap with a little more of a compassionate and human face...

..before all things Keefer, I am a human being, a resident of the only home we have, who loves that home with a passion and all that lives within it.. life.. not simply humanity.. which is why I argue as I do.. it is why I am a pacifist and a socialist.. it is why I am a conservationist and environmentalist.. it is why I argue against loss of hard fought for freedoms, freedoms which people fought for and died for.. very few freedoms were "granted" out of the goodness of the hearts of those who had power....it is why I hate privilege and base prejudice.. it is why politically, I care not for Obama or Clinton and certainly not your tea party and its cronies.. or Cameron, Clegg or Milliband here, and other leaders in just about any country u care to mention.. it is why I am not a racist, or a xenophobe, or as some would have it a misandrist even although a feminist, it is why I am an internationalist and not a nationalist.. I am a humanist, Keefer... a militant one certainly, but not a violent one.. a Marxist? Well Im certainly much influenced by Marx but haven't thought of myself being one for such a long time...nor do I now...

I doubt I shall ever have that ice pick in the back of the head.. but if so, well thats life isnt it? Or death rather... but I would not wish the perpetrator's death in retaliation, or harm to come to any other person or living thing for that matter. If that ever did happen, and my death was responsible for any act of vengeance on my behalf.. that will undermine the very things for which I will have spent my life striving to achieve and devalue whatever point there was to my existence.....

Life is far more important to me than almost anything.. the lives of others before my own... even those I have not and wll never meet...and peace, prosperity in a world we care for and love, and look after as she should be looked after, for every human being is my ultimate goal.. I'll never see it any more than will u.. but I do me lil bit in me own lil way... I'm a bit gobby about it, and being human get it wrong very often... but I'm not going to change now... although I would like to eliminate the getting it wrong bit... but the general way I think and feel? Nope... about that I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track... even questioning, if I may return to the thread, the motives of great corporations,governments and others in twisting things like science for their own selfish purposes.....

[keefer10.7]

Are keeferand jamienyc in science?

I will ask the same of you, Hep. I am not in science nor have I lived life with my head stuck in the dirt either. Just on a scientific note here; global warming? It's been proven to be a trecherous, lowhanded attempt to usurp American sovereignity for hoked up crap by a bunch of scientists who were paid to find what some wanted. We've all heard of the hacked emails concerning this; the phony pictures of polar bears floating away on the last vestige of ice and on and on and on we went with this baloney. Now, what do we have? Literally hundreds of scientists, who once scribed to this malarky, are running so fast away from this scam it's like their ass is on fire. One would have you believe that when I was 12 in 1970 and a summer day was an average of 73 degrees, to it being 88 on an average in 1999. The only problem with this crap is that most of us never seen anything like what these ne'er do wells were trying to get us to believe in. No, you won't find many corporations jumping onto the global warming ruse to the point that their ankels breaking and for good reason. While we're on this, why don't you write the Chinese and Indian governments and give them a face full about all the polluting they're doing.

[Hephaestion]

Pleased to reply Keefer. I was until my retirement last year in full time science of which a significant component had an environmental aspect. Funding came from all quarters.

[darkeyes]

I will ask the same of you, Hep. I am not in science nor have I lived life with my head stuck in the dirt either. Just on a scientific note here; global warming? It's been proven to be a trecherous, lowhanded attempt to usurp American sovereignity for hoked up crap by a bunch of scientists who were paid to find what some wanted. We've all heard of the hacked emails concerning this; the phony pictures of polar bears floating away on the last vestige of ice and on and on and on we went with this baloney. Now, what do we have? Literally hundreds of scientists, who once scribed to this malarky, are running so fast away from this scam it's like their ass is on fire. One would have you believe that when I was 12 in 1970 and a summer day was an average of 73 degrees, to it being 88 on an average in 1999. The only problem with this crap is that most of us never seen anything like what these ne'er do wells were trying to get us to believe in. No, you won't find many corporations jumping onto the global warming ruse to the point that their ankels breaking and for good reason. While we're on this, why don't you write the Chinese and Indian governments and give them a face full about all the polluting they're doing...and twisting such as you have just done, either out of ignorance or design, the truth of climate change, you have given yourself away by the narrow interests of country which you espouse...contrary to what you seem to claim, climate change is real is unquestioned by very few.. the reasons for climate change and what we can and should do about it, and what humankind's contribution has been... that is the battleground which sadly those of narrow and selfish interest, in part because of the economic downturn are on the ascendancy, but they were never that keen even in good times.....and that I see as a tragedy from which we may yet live to regret.. but there are Keefer, a few who still deny climate change, and refuse to believe the evidence of shrinking glaciers and ice caps, flora and fauna migrations and extinctions, shrinking and disappearing corals, rising tides, desertification, deforestation, changing rainand snowfall patterns, earlier springs and later autumns and much more... they deny it but I doubt they do not believe it, because of that selfish narrow interest that they wish to further for themselves and their cronies..

..and scientists are not running away from climate change.. there are as many, if not more scientiists accept climate change as a reality than have ever done, but changes in the way we do science and the direction science is taking for reasons which many scientists condemn means that it is likely that less science on climate change is being done... I only hope that by the time priorities are reassessed and we begin once again to take seriously the issue of climate change.. that it is not to late to do something about it...

..and if u believe Polar bears are not under stress and endangered, have a nice chat with anyone who has some knowledge of the problems of polar bears and the shrinking northern ice cap...... and the hacked emails issue does not quite give u the comfort u so desire Keefer... try researching the truth of it.. and while Chinese and Indians pollute appalingly the Chinese in particular are investing in renewable energy to such an extent that they are fast becoming market leaders in the field and makes both the American and European effort look paltry and almost squalid...

You may not have buried your head in the dirt Keefer, but how open your eyes have been is open to question.. as we Scots say, "Thair is nane si blind as thaim that canni see..".

[pepperjack]

We have the same expression here, Fran; it's called denial.

[12voltman59]

Keefer---here is what real researchers in global climate have found---thanks to researchers doing long term climatological studies at places like the Ohio State University's Byrd Polar Research Center http://bprc.osu.edu/

I went to a presentation a year or so ago from one of their top researchers---and the guy was featured on a number of shows about global climate change on PBS and elsewhere---he very clearly stated that among climate researchers such as himself----there is no doubt that climate change is indeed taking place and that the activities of humankind--namely the massive burning of fossil fuels that we have been doing that began at the beginning of the "Industrial Age"

I am not a scientist, but I will try to put together the things that they said very which clearly points to the FACT that climate change is going on and mankind has much to do with it.

So how can they say that it real?---its sort of simple and actually pretty high tech stuff to show it--the researchers at OSU have been going around to the places all over the world like Greenland, Alaska, the South Pole to drill and collect ice core samples for around thirty or so years now---using the ice core samples---they have put the ice into very sophisticated spectrum analysis machines and found that since the dawn of industrialization---the by-product of that burning has lead to a very clear rise in "greenhouse gases" that have helped set off a slow but very clear rise in overall earth temperatures and once again---how do they know that??

Well---they fed all of those numbers for the gases and other data, correlating it with several things----plotting temperatures recorded by ship's captains in the logs of ships going back several hundred years that were considered very reliable and also---it has been like 60 years since a weather observer began taking daily temperature readings in Hawaii---and even though that person is long dead--a succession of weather casters at an institution of higher learning has continued the task each and every day. Getting back to the point--they put all of this info into several highly sophisticated super computers and began crunching the numbers----what they came up with after doing that was a series of graphically represented information that clearly showed that when we began to increase using fossil fuels---the greenhouse gases increased and global temperatures began a slow but clear rise.

One other piece to that puzzle---and one of the things that is thrown up by debunkers of "global warming"---is that volcanoes when they explode and put up all kinds of things are "probably responsible" for any changes. That is true to some extent--but usually volcanoes tend to only do that on a short term basis---make things cooler on the earth for a time--a very short time they have found and once the gases they spew up disperse into the ground and oceans---the overall rise in global changes takes right back off in an upward fashion. The doc from OSU posted all of this up on big screens via their computers.

Another reason that climate researchers know that mankind's burning of fossil fuels and not volcanic eruptions are responsible for "global warming"--this is where it gets a bit out of my league for sure--but it has to do with studying radioactive isotopes and what studying them PROVES according to the OSU prof----researchers all over the world have basically mapped the isotopes of just about every deposit of coal, oil and other fossil fuels mankind makes use of and what they find by studying the ice cores since the gases get trapped in them----they have found the isotopes of the fossil fuels we have burned are in the ice core and the only way those isotopes would ever have gotten free into the atmosphere was due to us digging or drilling them out of the ground and burning them---also-when it comes to volcanoes--the isotopes they leave behind are different and the type of carbon they spew is different form than that found in fossil fuels--one more really tech geeky thing---when a volcano blows up --it has a certain effect on the oxygen molecules found in the atmosphere and so does burning fossil fuels use up oxygen in a different way----they have also thanks, to core samples that represent going back in time like several hundred thousand years----that in our burning fossil fuels all these years--we have by a minute amount relative to total volume---reduced the amount of oxygen in our atmosphere---the doc did say we are in no danger of burning up our oxygen anytime soon.

Now---one more thing---the way that science works---when one individual or group of other scientists find out something--they report it openly along with their methods of gathering the data, their interpretations of that data etc and other scientists go out to either confirm or debunk those initial findings and with the climate and what the researchers at OSU have found is right in line with what other climatic researchers have found---like those who work for the US NAVY which has its own climate labs and long term ongoing climate research and universities and governments all over the world.

The doc did say that while among true climate researchers, there is really no doubt as to the fact that climate change is indeed happening and that we have something to do with it but the only real thing that is not quite known--is exactly what is going to take place and how long it will take place--but he says that they are getting better at figuring that out all the time.

Along with what OSU has found--among other big time players that feel that climate change is going on is the "RE" industry or more plainly---the REINSURANCE industry--which is really where true insurance happens since the RE Insurers are the companies who underwrite the insurance companies that we as individuals or companies get our insurance and their studies have clearly shown that the world is facing a disaster of unprecedented scope that is in the future--shake up nations and disrupt commerce like nothing before.

Our own US Department of Defense--back in the waning years of the Geo W Bush administration did one of its periodic "Defense Intelligence Estimates" and it determined that the number one threat to the world in coming years was going to be as a result of global climate change with things like rising sea levels forcing large percentages of the world's population from coastal areas---with most of the world's population living within a relative short distance from the world's oceans and most of those areas will be facing threats to their very existence including major cities like London, New York City, Miami, etc going away or at least changing a great deal---also in some places due to drought--there will be starvation on a massive scale and water shortages that will lead to armed conflict (wars), places that grew certain crops will no longer be able to support them like America's "breadbasket" of the Great Plains with it basically potentially turning to desert.

That "DIE" was basically buried by top dogs in the Bush Administration and is like that thing never existed.

The prof said that what did happen back when they were getting the first data together on this---there were varying interpretations that scientists made, which they always do--and they usually do crouch things in words like "our findings are preliminary" and "we think that this is so" but the press was at fault in not making it clear those provisos and reported all kinds of things that researchers said that were all over the map and that did kind of make things suspect in the minds of the general public who don't really know how or appreciates how science works.

When it comes to the average researcher type--they don't like to get into the controversy aspect of things like this and they are surely working towards expanding the knowledge base of their particular field of study--they just want to do their work. They can make suggestions about what to do about things like climate change, but it really was up to those who run things to make the decisions as to what to do about the climate change that is really happening.

Sadly--most who run things want to put their heads in the sand, act like everything is business as usual by not doing anything about climate change because it "will be devastating to the economy if we do anything about it like some want"--well it seems to me that like it or not--the climate is going to be changing and the results of that are gonna be really damn expensive and very disruptive to our economy and that of the rest of the world.

While I am on a rant--might as well put in a bit on the issue: "Is Evolution Real"--well-went to another presentation at the local university on such issues to present the facts and reality-----the prof who did that one started out by asking one question to the audience and suggesting that we ask it of those we might know who say that evolution is bunk----the question: "Do You Believe in Dogs" and he went into how if not for the FACT of the evolutionary process---it would not have been possible for us to have taken the wolf and morphed into the hundreds of breeds of dogs we now have----to this end--for February---the National Geographic has an article very much along these lines describing how humans were able to manipulate genetic traits to get dogs suitable for all the things we created them to do. Also--this prof who was a medical researcher working in areas like cancers--said that if not for evolution---about 99% of what we call "modern medicine" would not exist---they surely would not be able to identify a new potentially deadly strain of flu and in a few months be producing a the shots for it to prevent that strain.

One last word on the climate thing----one of the things that weather researchers make very clear--"weather is not climate" and year to year fluctuations from being hot, warm or cold or wet or dry in each season has no bearing on the overall climatic conditions.

Keef--as far as that supposed situation that took place at East Anglia with the climate research being faked was itself proven to be smear job and totally false having been conducted by a far right wing "thinktank" that seeks to debunk and discredit the entire field of study--with its support coming from industries that surely don't want "global warming" to be considered to be true since that goes against the business interests of the industries like coal mining and oil companies that fund that organization.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2012/02/10/michael_mann_speaks_.aspx

You don't really have to worry about anything substantive being done about climate change because even with the great evil socialist Barack Obama---the US still basically has stonewalled any real hardcore changes to make any real differences and it is basically "business as usual"--hell the Obama administration has now granted the first licenses in over thirty years for a few nuclear reactors to be built--something that even George Bush couldn't get done. Nukes might help out in the area of making less green house gases and you don't have to drill for oil or mine coal--but most really hardcore "lefty" environmental types are apoplectic that the Obama Administration would approve new nuclear reactors to be built.


As always---some outside reading from internet sources---this first one--a working relationship between a major enviromental group and a major financial player: http://www.scribd.com/doc/23870693/Climate-change-and-finance-sector

https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=155+U.+Pa.+L.+Rev.+1875&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=b18e5ae82d6d7bf4396d9388c75dca64

http://www.abir.bm/downloads/Ocean%20Chemistry%20is%20the%20Smoking%20Gun%20of% 20Climate%20Change.pdf

You can go on for hours with stuff of this nature--guess that the big companies and many nations of the world surely don't consider climate change to be total bunk!!! Especially island ones like Bermuda, the Maldives, the Seychelles and even the government of Merry Old England, the Netherlands and others.

[keefer10.7]

Dude! Can you prattle on or what? When all this bunk was going on ten to fifteen years ago, there were many scientists who put out data suggesting the total opposite of what the Gorites were predicting. Over the past year, there has been a massive retreat from scientists who once espoused the idea of climate change. RIGHT NOW just about every crediable study suggests that the so called "global warming" period ended over ten years ago and we are now in the midst of a mini ice age. Believe what you want; dig a hole in the ground and cry for the mountains to fall on you. I'll sit back and and light up a smoke, pop open a beer and watch your greenees recycle used toilet paper.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming--Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html

We all have our sources, let's see if NASA has it right.

[darkeyes]

Lets just do that Keefer...an interesting thing to consider however is that the La Niña episode of 2010/11 is the warmest we know of.. the issue of climate change is about far more than simply global warming.. global warming is but a symptom of climate change.. interestingly the UK is predicted to become a warmer wetter place in summer and a much colder place in winter if the planet as seems likely is actually heating up... it will not be an even warming.. but a mean warming.. different places will be affected diferently.. so the Thames freezing over is actually not outlandish.. it is not about one year being cooler or warmer... it is about trends.. last year may have been the second coolest year of this century but it would have been the 11th warmest of the last... indeed it tied with 1997 for temperature.. a non La Niña year.. and the trend has for some decades now been towards a warmer world...

So ya pays ya money and makes ya choice Keefer...

[swmnkdinthervr]

Anyone foolish enough to make the argument the it was cooler/colder here last year than in years and we had record snow so it's not global warming...or any such "scientific statement" is validating the global warming argument. The predictions are for unsettled weather with more rain, drought, snow, tornados etc. Last year and the beginning of this year are banner years for example with weather records falling by huge margins in this country alone...then look at Europe!

[Hephaestion]

One should not forget Milankovitch cycles and stellar evolution where the sun's output will eventully rise inexorably (Earth's fate is to be burnt to a cinder from this last)

"Global Warming" was the eye catching claim of yesteryear. What is really going on is 'climate change'. Some climate change is to be expected naturally. However, the Earth's weather patterns are markedly less stable with extremes becoming more frequent. Some parts of the planet will be become cooler while other parts will get warmer. We are not in the midst of a mini ice-age. That would be far more noticeable and likely able to freeze beer.

If the Earth is becoming cooler as suggested in Keefer's article then clearly there is inertia / overshoot in the climate system as the ice at the poles is definitely melting some '10 years' after the claimed reversal of trends. This is the point. When the expectation is that the Earth should be heading towards an ice-age and the indications are contrary something is not right.

Is man having an effect?

Is the CFC (man made Chloro-Fluoro-Carbons) induced ozone hole still there? The relative stability of CFC's suggests that it will be.
Then there was the rise in temperatures detected in the USA when air transport was halted briefly after 9/11.
Co2 levels are affecting sea life in physiologies and distributions
The el Nino perioidicty is misbehaving
There is a list of forensic indicators that it's a human influenced situation

Maybe it was alright to behave without regard for the environment when the Earth's population was small. As the Earth's human population rises then any influence will rise alongside and needs to be held in check. The ability of the Earth to replenish its natural cyclable resources (e.g. deep aquifers, not to mention oil) is already beyond the span of a single generation. Man is heading for starvation of essential resources and a hideous population crash

While the economists, bankers and irresponsible politicians play their silly games then mankind is doomed to a terrible fate. This is the part that needs changing. Old capitalism is broken. The ever expanding economy cannot be sustained in an environment of finite resources. If the USA collapses then it is not the 'greenies' who will be to blame, although there is a degree of over enthusiasm amonsgst them. It will be the idiotic triumvirate heading this paragraph along with their supporting fools. Science is a naturally adversarial system. Trying to get science to give a more convenient story is misguided.

Even if man's influence is that of a sneeze in a thunderstorm one should bear in mind the maxim of a straw breaking a camel's back. In scientific terms this is the flip point in chaos theory. Can one really sit around and do nothing if there is inertia in the system?

[æonpax]

"Is our children learning?"
George W. Bush




Excellent article Fran. The “Dumbing Down” of America has been going on, arguably, for the last 40 years. However, as culpable as corporates are, they are nor alone. Conservatives, liberals and our own government are also involved. In essence, a dumb population is easy to control, manipulate and lead..






Corporations - Viacom once admitted that advertisers control what programs you see on their cable channels and CBS. They want that guy who wears his cap sideways and his pants down around his knees. They want that gal who "just has to get breast implants" to fit in with the hip crowd. They want those fools who fall for infomercials and those fools believe in “reality” shows..Dumb is GOOD! Dumb is also good if you are trying to get customers to pay off their credit cards by borrowing more money and getting even further into debt to them and steer people into division with false ideological controversies in the corporate controlled media. Corporate America wants you to be empty headed drones who are easy prey for big money commercials and the distortion of truth and facts. Science for pure knowledge seems to have little use unless a profit can be made on it.

Conservatives – The cliché “academic elite” arguably, has been the sole domain of the conservatives/GOP/tea party meaning anyone who has more than a 5th grade education. Making matters worse, are their extremist Christians are into history revisionism, the wholesale changing of science and math to meet their so-called biblical beliefs, the denigration of the noble profession of teacher and their push to make the US a theocracy. These people view any education outside their own warped beliefs as being evil.

Liberals – Even the most altruistic of ideas can go very wrong when not fully thought out in long term consequences. The great social programs of the 60’s, while they have genuinely helped millions, has also enslaved generations of disadvantaged people into believing they are less than equal and require constant government assistance. It has caused social dissonance, billions in waste and created an educational system that forces education on those who will not or cannot learn, controlled by useless bureaucrats and educational specialists.

Government – Throughout history, all governments have shown a callous and brutal disregard for the people they govern, or are entrusted to govern. The idiom; “I love my country, it’s the government I don’t trust” is especially appropriate here. All governments want to control it’s population. The democratic republic of the United States is no different. Combined with the massive corporate influence, along with religious zealotry, it makes a formidable force.


All of these groups together have contributed to the dumbing down of America. While I believe the “clear and present danger” lays with the corporations, these other factors cannot be overlooked.