As out as you feel

[Herculoid Poirot]

Hi all-here's a topic we've been discussing in the group Bisexual Out Married Boys (BOMB - yes we have the coolest acronym). How out is out? I posit that one is as out as one feels. It's been 20+ years since I've denied being queer, but there are still people that I don't tell. I'm out to my wife, friends, etc., so in my mind I'm out. Someone else might define it differently, but that's how it feels for me. For others it might be that they wouldn't consider someone out until no single person in their lives remained untold. For someone else, admitting having bi desires to their spouse or significant other might be all they need to do in order to feel out. Cool.

[LastGent]

Such a question doesn't apply to my sexuality: my sexual orientations are what techniques I use to become aroused/orgasm, and currently, I have twenty-eight orientations. Which biological sex I want to be with is unimportant, my social desires change anywhere from two to ten days.
I do not understand this "out" thing. Out of what? Only a partner would need to know about one's sexuality. If someone asks you frankly then it is none of their business if it is in a general context-or, if the querant is obviously hitting on you just say you're not interested. I wish for the days when sex was whispered about behind doors, no sex-subculture-pride demonstrations, because it is unnecessary-if folk would stop bugging about others' business all this wouldn't be required.

[Hephaestion]

"....I have twenty-eight orientations...."


Struggling with this here.

[fredtyg]

It's been 20+ years since I've denied being queer,...

Now that you've gotten me thinking about it, I can't recall ever denying I was queer, but I don't recall anyone ever asking me.

There was one instance where another queer approached me for a pick up. He'd seen me in a queer hangout, knew I was queer and made a move on me. I denied being queer to get away from him but that was mostly because we were on a military base. I don't know that that's the same thing you're referring to.

I don't recall ever being asked if I was queer and can't say I ever joined in any guy group gay bashing. I have been told by a few people, way back when, they thought I was queer to which I simply didn't reply. But way back when, I was denying to myself I was queer much of the time.

[Gearbox]

I have confessed my faultiness to myself and those I exercise it with.;)

(Lame way of saying, I'm not quite out.lol).

[Herculoid Poirot]

I have confessed my faultiness to myself and those I exercise it with.;)

(Lame way of saying, I'm not quite out.lol).

Similarly, I consider myself a nerd, am well aware of my nerdy leanings, and am happy to spend an evening playing video games with friends, but it's not the first thing I mention to people when I meet them. But can they tell I'm a bit of a nerd just by looking at me? Probably!

[tenni]

I think that the only people that need this information are those that I am sexually involved with. I do not understand the idea of being out. I denied two times in my life about my sexuality. That was quite awhile ago. If asked again, I would want to know why it would it be important to a person that they would ask such things? Is it their business ? A best response might be to ask why they want to know? Ask them if they want to have sex with me?

I think that I may be moving to disclose but I'm not sure to whom or why? I asked a young fellow who was struggling with telling his family that he was bi why he wanted to do that. He made a statement about honesty with his family.

I've told one sister in an email casually and that was all. No drama or asking for details. I have an openly gay acting asexual close friend and I think that my sister thought that we were a couple as she invited him to a family dinner. I told my sister that he had his own family. I said that he was just a friend and then told her my sexuality without further discussion.

I don't see myself setting up house with a guy or woman right now. If I felt that it was important I would disclose. I suspect that it is best to do it(for me) very casually in context without elaboration.

[Herculoid Poirot]

For me, being out is being honest with every part of myself, and living my life with no secrets. That's a much more comfortable place to be, at least for me it is.

[LastGent]

To Hephaestion: driving you nuts, is it?

[FunE1]

....I think that I may be moving to disclose but I'm not sure to whom or why.... I don't see myself setting up house with a guy or woman right now. If I felt that it was important I would disclose. I suspect that it is best to do it(for me) very casually in context without elaboration.

I have exactly the same take on this as Tenni....

While I am still "new" to my bi-lifestyle, I find myself becoming more and more comfortable with it. I am out to one friend with whom I have shared sexual details with for some time, and my ex-wife new of my bisexual interest, but does not know I am currently a practicing bi (although she probably suspects as much).

If someone were to ask, I would tell them, but I don't go around asking about others' sexual activities and don't really see mine as any business of theirs. If, for whatever reason, they are interested, I don't see a reason to deny it.

I do debate telling my family, but we are not close generally, none of them live near me, and so, unless I take a same sex partner for a LTR or some such, don't see the need to.

[darkeyes]

I think that the only people that need this information are those that I am sexually involved with. I do not understand the idea of being out. I denied two times in my life about my sexuality. That was quite awhile ago. If asked again, I would want to know why it would it be important to a person that they would ask such things? Is it their business ? A best response might be to ask why they want to know? Ask them if they want to have sex with me?

I think that I may be moving to disclose but I'm not sure to whom or why? I asked a young fellow who was struggling with telling his family that he was bi why he wanted to do that. He made a statement about honesty with his family.

I've told one sister in an email casually and that was all. No drama or asking for details. I have an openly gay acting asexual close friend and I think that my sister thought that we were a couple as she invited him to a family dinner. I told my sister that he had his own family. I said that he was just a friend and then told her my sexuality without further discussion.

I don't see myself setting up house with a guy or woman right now. If I felt that it was important I would disclose. I suspect that it is best to do it(for me) very casually in context without elaboration...and where Tenni babes.. does this fit in with ur oft stated views on bi invisibility?

[tenni]

darkeyes
I think that you have a very different perspective on bi invisibility than I understand. Everything that I have read in reports refer to bi invisibility as systemic and not individual.

Bi invisibility is perpetuated in the media when celebrities and fictional characters are portrayed as lesbian or gay even though they have sexual/romantic relationships with women and men. No spokesperson for the GLBT organization stand up to correct this by stating that the person having sex with both men and women is probably bisexual and not gay.(Let alone argue that Will was a gay leaning bisexual man..emotionally involved with Grace but more casually sexually involved with men) Bi Invisibility is involved in the infrastructure of GLBT organizations as well (San Francisco Bi Invisibility study)

You have written before about this before and as I recall you see it as individual. If you want bisexuality to be acknowledged that you should be out and public. This may be argued for quite sometime as to what approach is best. Bisexuals fit in both communities and yet neither really support us and have much to gain by making us invisible is one argument.

My own personal view is that the GLBT organizations are there primarily for gay people and not bisexuals. Bi Invisibility is practiced by both "officials" of GLBT organizations and the media. Systemic and not individual.

Who are the Bisexual Organizational spokespeople to improve this? The goal should be there is no need to "come out" about your sexuality. People are just people or maybe everyone sees themself as bisexual by default until they struggle to decide to be hetero or gay. ;) ..lol

Until then, we, bisexuals, should still have the right to decide if/when to disclose. Would you darkeyes deny me and others that?

[Herculoid Poirot]

One thing we can all agree on is that David Bowie is cool.

[darkeyes]

darkeyes
I think that you have a very different perspective on bi invisibility than I understand. Everything that I have read in reports refer to bi invisibility as systemic and not individual.

Bi invisibility is perpetuated in the media when celebrities and fictional characters are portrayed as lesbian or gay even though they have sexual/romantic relationships with women and men. No spokesperson for the GLBT organization stand up to correct this by stating that the person having sex with both men and women is probably bisexual and not gay.(Let alone argue that Will was a gay leaning bisexual man..emotionally involved with Grace but more casually sexually involved with men) Bi Invisibility is involved in the infrastructure of GLBT organizations as well (San Francisco Bi Invisibility study)

You have written before about this before and as I recall you see it as individual. If you want bisexuality to be acknowledged that you should be out and public. This may be argued for quite sometime as to what approach is best. Bisexuals fit in both communities and yet neither really support us and have much to gain by making us invisible is one argument.

My own personal view is that the GLBT organizations are there primarily for gay people and not bisexuals. Bi Invisibility is practiced by both "officials" of GLBT organizations and the media. Systemic and not individual.

Who are the Bisexual Organizational spokespeople to improve this? The goal should be there is no need to "come out" about your sexuality. People are just people or maybe everyone sees themself as bisexual by default until they struggle to decide to be hetero or gay. ;) ..lol

Until then, we, bisexuals, should still have the right to decide if/when to disclose. Would you darkeyes deny me and others that?Tenni we dont think that differently about bi invisibility.. in the end it is up to everyone to be as visible as they wish.. but while we do agree on that, and the fact that there is a systemic failure, that begs the question.. why is their a systemic failure? Could it be because so many bisexuals like yourself are as quiet as the church mouse? So while it is systemic, it is also individual... the system fails individuals yet equally indivuals fail the system by their reluctance to come out.. I dont blame them for that at all.. I understand it, just as I understand why anyone who is gay keeps quiet, and even more kept quiet 40 odd years ago when homosexuality was first made legal... yet slowly more and more gay men and women crept out of the closet while so many bisexuals, men more than women even now, remained firmly behind closed doors.. familial attachments make that understandable, which bisexuals did to a far greater degree than did most gays for they fitted in and joined the "normal" world in far greater numbers than did homosexual men and women.. that still remains true today.. how much more or less true is debatable..

.. but there is some kind of downer on gay people by bisexuals (and I dont mean the ur not really bisexual crowd among the gay and lesbian community)..the gay part of the lgbt for bi invisibilty as if it is all their fault... I think it does bear some responsibility, but the fact that so many bisexuals.. people like yourself act as you do, much of that responsibility lies with bisexuals themselves.. I agree with u wholeheartedy that no one need trumpet to the world what their sexuality is.. yet if we are too achieve that end we need more gay and bisexual people to do just that.. and make themselves more visible.. not push what we are in peoples faces but let them know who we are and that we are around... and think on this... when the day comes that we reach the point where sexuality just is... and it is not an issue.. still we will need to let the world know that we are around... less stridently sure.. but how else do we make contact?

I was not criticising u in the least Tenni babes... but it was a question I needed to know the answer to and I think others too... because in essence we agree... but your approach and mine are completely different.. both may well be right because each of us has the right to deal with the issue of our sexuality in our own way and in our own time... I merely wish you think a little more about the issue of bi invisibility than you do when u shout the odds about it because there is an inconsistency in how you feel about it and how you live your life... we all have contradictions, Tenni, and that is not meant as a criticisim.. merely something to think about while u have a cup of tea and a currant bun...

[tenni]

darkeyes
This thread is about bisexuals being out and how far out do posters wish to be as bisexuals.

It is not about bi invisibility nor your activist belief that not being out is wrong for bisexuals as a group.
It is not about blaming bisexuals for media and GLBT organizations practising bi invisible tactics.

I disclosed how out I am and feel comfortable. You chose to challenge me on bi invisibility and my own comfort level about my own sexuality disclosure.

You are is off topic of how out is out...imo. Please stay on topic of this thread or start a new thread to explore your topic.

[Gearbox]

Similarly, I consider myself a nerd, am well aware of my nerdy leanings, and am happy to spend an evening playing video games with friends, but it's not the first thing I mention to people when I meet them. But can they tell I'm a bit of a nerd just by looking at me? Probably!
That Startrek communicator badge is quite a hint.:rolleyes: I'm more subtle with my Data haircut.lol

[tenni]

Forgive me Peroit
Darkeyes
I feel that I need to come back to you on this confusion that you may have.
"there is an inconsistency in how you feel about it and how you live your life."

There is no inconsistency imo.
Darkeyes, you are not following the meaning of "Bi Invisibility" as has been established but attempting to change it to suit your thesis. As I stated it is a systemic problem. No one defines bi invisibility in terms of individuals. They are not connected directly as you wish.

I am not being inconsistent about how I understand (not feel) about this form of systemic discrimination. Whether I am "out" as a biman will not change how media portray incorrectly bisexuals. I write to media who do this and I correct them. I point it out on this website. I sent a message to the New York Times just the other week about an article that the writer was using Bi Invisibility. I've been doing this when I read such media reports including the Globe and Mail. Where is the inconsistency about standing up to correct misconceptions whether intentional or not? I don't need to place my face and address on such replies to bring bi invisible actions forward.

[darkeyes]

Forgive me Peroit
Darkeyes
I feel that I need to come back to you on this confusion that you may have.
"there is an inconsistency in how you feel about it and how you live your life."

There is no inconsistency imo.
Darkeyes, you are not following the meaning of "Bi Invisibility" as has been established but attempting to change it to suit your thesis. As I stated it is a systemic problem. No one defines bi invisibility in terms of individuals. They are not connected directly as you wish.

I am not being inconsistent about how I understand (not feel) about this form of systemic discrimination. Whether I am "out" as a biman will not change how media portray incorrectly bisexuals. I write to media who do this and I correct them. I point it out on this website. I sent a message to the New York Times just the other week about an article that the writer was using Bi Invisibility. I've been doing this when I read such media reports including the Globe and Mail. Where is the inconsistency about standing up to correct misconceptions whether intentional or not? I don't need to place my face and address on such replies to bring bi invisible actions forward.I was not going to reply to ur previous post, but whether what I see as bi invisibilty is a correct interpretation or not isnt that important.. my point is simple.. that by not making themselves visible, people contribute to the systemic failure of which u complain.. I thought I'd made that clear.. I agree it is certainly possible to act as u do and contribute to making what u wish to see come to pass.. my point is that by sitting in the background and acting as u do u partially hamstring the objective you wish to achieve. whether u see how u act and live and feel about bisexual invisibility is immaterial if only from my point of view.. I see it as an inconsistency, not fatal, arguably not even serious, but an important one which if eliminated, and taken with thousands of other bisexuals doing the same thing over time, advances the cause of bisexual visibility no end..

[Hephaestion]

To Hephaestion: driving you nuts, is it?

Driving me nuts? Not really.

- multiple splits in personality?
- points on the compass ?
- food preference?
- practices of the Kama Sutra?

.

[LastGent]

To Hephaestion: you might think I use the Kama Sutra, but not being an Indian I don't borrow from their culture. Perhaps you didn't read my post carefully enough: in the first sentence I stated "techniques I use to become aroused/orgasm [with]". You don't think there are twenty-eight different ways to do this? There are actually a lot more sexual orientations I refuse to practice do to ethical/religious reasons.