OMG

[obviousbulge]

I was in the lunch room. There was others in the lunch room while some one made a comment what was on the The Ellen DeGeneres Show. The show was on gays and bisexual. This person which is Christen said gay is a disease and a mental disease. This blows me away how someone can say that in todays world.

[keefer10.7]

What blows me away is that you were never taught how to spell.

[Lunatic1966]

that is your opinion and that was their opinion.........live and let live!!!!
why do we always have to think other people have to think like us?
maybe you should have had a discussion with that person about their opinion and how you disagreed with it.

if he or she wants to live that way and think that way so be it. they sound like they are a hard core christian. they believe in the bible teachings........so let them have their opinion and move on......

[darkeyes]

What blows me away is that you were never taught how to spell.

Take no notice of Keefer, Obvious, he is noted for his compassion, understanding, tolerance and his perfection in all things.

[*pan*]

didn't know we were being graded on our spelling ,
What blows me away is that you were never taught how to spell.

guess we should pray the gay away lol

[tenni]

I wonder if the person was referring to Ellen and her contract with JP Penny. I saw the show today( Wed) and for a rare event Ellen did talk about the "One Milliion Mothers" campaign to get her fired as a spokesperson for JP Penny because Ellen is gay. The store refused to bow to their demands. Ellen showed some comments from the One Million Mothers who were supporting having her as a spokesperson for JP Penny. She even played a clip or two of Bill O'Reilly stating that the group was acting like McCarthian way of trying to blacklist people based on their sexuality. It is a surprising form of support for a rather abrassive kinda right commentator like O'Reilly. Some of her other guests gave support to her as well. Other than that I don't know if I'd call it a gay/bisexual show? Maybe there was another one?

[FunE1]

For the love of God, tenni, it's "J.C. Penny" -- "J.C."

Please check your spelling before keefer's head explodes!!!

... oh, wait minute....

On second thought, scratch that: Go with J.P. Penney...


And I agree with you, tenni, I found his support of Ellen surprising (and refreshing).

[tenni]

Sorry Fun but I don't think that we have any JC Penny yet in my province in Canada. We don't even have Target but they are coming. We have our own stores ...so far. ;)

[Long Duck Dong]

I was in the lunch room. There was others in the lunch room while some one made a comment what was on the The Ellen DeGeneres Show. The show was on gays and bisexual. This person which is Christen said gay is a disease and a mental disease. This blows me away how someone can say that in todays world.

freedom of expression applies here..... and people are entitled to express themselves.... unless we want to start being the type of people that want to moderate and censor what others can say.... a bit like extremist religious countries like indonesia....or extremist religious people.......

and what they have said, may be true for some people, their sexuality can be the result of a mental illness or psych issue.....something that is not uncommon in rape or sexual abuse victims

[æonpax]

`
There is and always will be, people steeped in their our intolerance, bias, prejudice or hatred, be it for religious or cultural reasons. They will never change. I am a white female who has dated black men and I also have a biracial daughter. To this day, in public, I still get looks that could kill and of course, racially charged comments. I've grown a thick skin about such things that also includes sexual orientation. I just pass it off as ignorance.

[Wanabee]

Back in 1970's i was a bi-teen but I lived a secret life hid away from those morons and idiot who thinks sexuality is as straight as black and white. Now it's 2012 and those morons and idiots still haven't figured it out that live is not as plain as black & white... They are hopeless.

[elian]

That sort of opinion is frustrating and disheartening but I don't hate people like this, you just can't - it is a misunderstanding and a lack of education. Your relationships are about who you love, not who you sleep with.

You have to wonder if their "God" brought them into contact with a gay person just so they COULD see the difference between what they currently believe and what actually is. Although they may never accept that lesson. I know a Christian "host family" that took in a foreign exchange student and when the child came out as gay at school the program had to frantically search for a new home for the boy because the original family didn't want "that" in their house. Talk about not learning the lesson that God brings to your doorstep.

It is a very popular theory that LGBT folks have had "abnormal development" in their formative years - and indeed I know a great many gay men who have really struggled growing up.. However, I don't think it's "the gay" that causes the struggle, it's having to confront society's attitude toward same sex relationships, or one of many other emotional or spiritual issues that causes the most pain. There are other cultures throughout the world that are more accepting of LGBT and those folks live full, productive lives without social stigma.

I believe that a person may have innate tendencies toward being LGBT, and that environment and circumstances can trigger those tendencies. ..even given no "hostile" triggers at all that aspect of a person's personality might emerge anyway over time.

[darkeyes]

I dont think there has been any note of hate from the OP or anyone else, Elian.. sadness and shock at how people think and at what they say maybe, but not hate... but it's something we all know and we are used to.. but responding in kind never helps, and only by educating the ignorant can we hope to overcome misunderstanding, non acceptance and intolerance.

[Long Duck Dong]

the trouble with educating is that we try to educate everybody...... some people are best left alone and not listened to...... but we do not want to accept that, we have the idea that we need to teach everybody the * right way to think *..... and that is exactly what some christians feel its their mission to do.....merely the message is different

it is by giving attention to people, like on the ellen show, that we spread their opinions around the place.... much in the same way that dan savage gets a wider audience..... and he relies on his * shock tactics * to do so....... any audience is a audience.... and there are times that its best that we turn a deaf ear and blind eye to things......

calling them ignorant serves no purpose..... as it would only make them angrier and more determined to have others agree with their opinion....... and makes us as unaccepting and as intolerant as some of the people we try to * educate *

[darkeyes]

Much of what u say is true Duckie.. but when fighting for what we believe there is no other way.. we argue for what we believe and try and educate and pass on understanding and acceptance, or we sit back and allow the world and its woes, and the suspicion, mistrust, dislike and hate to wash over us and hope we will not be too badly affected... but as with any tsunami.. ignore it and washing over us usually means drowning rather horribly or at best struggling for air with which to breathe as our world is swept away.. we cannot force them to accept who we are or what we believe, but neither should we shut up and allow them easy reign over our lives.. too often in history that has resulted in tragedy and oppression..

[void()]

`
There is and always will be, people steeped in their our intolerance, bias, prejudice or hatred, be it for religious or cultural reasons. They will never change. I am a white female who has dated black men and I also have a biracial daughter. To this day, in public, I still get looks that could kill and of course, racially charged comments. I've grown a thick skin about such things that also includes sexual orientation. I just pass it off as ignorance.

Allow me to explain something about a view. You could have just said, "hey, some people have ignorant opinions. It's better to move along if they don't seem to want educated." Instead you chose to craft a portrayal of your victimization. This adds nothing to helping educate, rather it comes over as being adversarial.

"People hurt me. I'll just tell them I got thick skin."

That only encourages them to try harder to hurt you. You're presenting a challenge instead of being the water shedding duck. If you continue doing that, then do not blame others for being ignorant. It is just as ignorant in this case to ask for the punches. And no, I'm not saying anyone asks for any abuse. But in this case, with you saying you're impervious, you do ask for more. That's just common reverse psychology and human nature.

Put a mountain in front of a crew building a road, they can't go around it due to geography, going over would take too long and be costly. They'll blow a hole through the mountain for sure. And the same metaphor applies with how you come across like this. You become the mountain in the way.

Better to be an ever changing gentle stream eroding mountains to grains of sand in my opinion. You are free to disagree and probably will. :) And that's okay.

[12voltman59]

Actually now---Penny's has gone simply to a very clean crisp logo that uses their three letters small case letters: JCP incorporated into a blue box imposed on a red square---click on this link to see the new logo: http://www.jcpenney.com/jcp/default.aspx?&cm_mmc=MSN-_-M_JCP_Official_Site-_-M_JCP_Store_EC-_-jcpenney%20store

They did use a red square--OMG---maybe Penney's has gone pinko commie on us!!!

[Emunahd]

Actually now---Penny's has gone simply to a very clean crisp logo that uses their three letters small case letters: JCP incorporated into a blue box imposed on a red square---click on this link to see the new logo: http://www.jcpenney.com/jcp/default.aspx?&cm_mmc=MSN-_-M_JCP_Official_Site-_-M_JCP_Store_EC-_-jcpenney%20store

They did use a red square--OMG---maybe Penney's has gone pinko commie on us!!!

Or, JPP if you're tenni. Just saying! Love ya, tenni!!

[gotlek]

Back in 1970's i was a bi-teen but I lived a secret life hid away from those morons and idiot who thinks sexuality is as straight as black and white. Now it's 2012 and those morons and idiots still haven't figured it out that live is not as plain as black & white... They are hopeless.
Same here in the 70's, I totally agree, some are still hopeless.....

[elian]

I'm not really trying to shove my understanding of LGBT down anyone's throat - although I will present my experience and belief...and I will stand up for my personal rights when they are truly threatened by something like legislation.

I like Dr. Mel White's approach toward the issue of rights.. http://www.soulforce.org/resources/four-step-journey-into-soulforce

[Long Duck Dong]

Much of what u say is true Duckie.. but when fighting for what we believe there is no other way.. we argue for what we believe and try and educate and pass on understanding and acceptance, or we sit back and allow the world and its woes, and the suspicion, mistrust, dislike and hate to wash over us and hope we will not be too badly affected... but as with any tsunami.. ignore it and washing over us usually means drowning rather horribly or at best struggling for air with which to breathe as our world is swept away.. we cannot force them to accept who we are or what we believe, but neither should we shut up and allow them easy reign over our lives.. too often in history that has resulted in tragedy and oppression..

sex in the city star cynthia nixon spoke her truth... and the LGBT community went after her for doing so...... so who decides who can say what and who are our *mods * in the LGBT community..... cos we will even silence our own for not * speaking the LGBT truth * as decided by the LGBT

that is my point fran..... we are practicing censorship

[darkeyes]

sex in the city star cynthia nixon spoke her truth... and the LGBT community went after her for doing so...... so who decides who can say what and who are our *mods * in the LGBT community..... cos we will even silence our own for not * speaking the LGBT truth * as decided by the LGBT

that is my point fran..... we are practicing censorship

"We" are nothing of the kind... for "we", that would have to include me, and people have the right to say what they like.. as long as I have the right to say my peace... don't shove me in with "we".... there is a diference between criticising and silencing.. its about time you and others learned it...

[Long Duck Dong]

I agree that people have the right to say their peace and that people have the right to respond in kind..... but I am sure that you would not like being called ignorant cos your opinion is not what others may believe......

there is very much a difference between criticizing and silencing..... cynthia nixon was told NOT to say what she was saying as other people would use her statement as proof that sexuality was a choice..... NOT told that others disagree with what she was saying about HERSELF..... which was that she chose to see herself as a gay person not a bisexual person....

she retracted her statement and changed it to she chose to be in a gay relationship..... to placate people that didn't want her saying what they did not want somebody to say...... a personal truth

I use the term we as a loose reference to cover people that would seek to criticise and / or silence others voices...... and I include myself in with people that do that... as I have done it in the past.... but I realised how I dislike being told constantly that I am wrong by people..... fran..... specially when my statements refer to myself and my beliefs

a opinion is a belief in your truth, IE your opinion on the military and war etc.... should people try and educate you about the areas in which you are wrong ? cos its only other peoples opinion that you are wrong and * ignorant *.... it doesn't make you wrong or ignorant, does it ?

the person on the ellen show spoke their truth, and while people may disagree, it doesn't make them any more ignorant than you....

[darkeyes]

Adjective
1lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated
[predic.] lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular

2 informal discourteous or rude:


Duckie, the above is the Oxford English Dictionary definition of the word "ignorant". I lack knowledge of many things as do we all, and with every argument I find myself being a little less ignorant whether or not I change my mind, or move my position or even if I don't do either.. occasionally I have also been rude and discourteous like most people, although I try to avoid this pitall.. but like most of us I fall flat on my face occasionally.. but regarding learning, whatever my final positon happens to be I do learn and learn in my own way.. what my position regarding ignorance is, that all too often from a position of ignorance, people do not learn, and do not wish to learn for reasons of their own and even corrupt and suppress that learning.. and such people, often racist, homophobic and holding what I consider base prejudice born out of ignorance of knowledge or just plainly rude and obnoxious born out of both ignorance of knowledge, a refusal to try and gain knowledge, and ignorance of manner and use that ignorance of knowledge and ignorance of manner for base reasons of prejudice..

We all lack knowledge on just about everything.. we will never learn everything about very much.. but it is incumbent on us to try and learn as much as we are able so we can move toward understanding.. often we shall do that, but often as in the case of racism or homophobia and other base instincts of our species, while it is incumbent on us to try and understand why people are racists or homophobes or whatever, it is not an obligation for that understanding to be used to draw us to their position, but to try and draw them to ours and convince them of the error of their ignorant belief.. that is my position and opinion..

Regarding war which you raised, I have moved my position over time in that while I still loathe war and the institution of the military, and the necessity for conflict but remain an obsolute pacifist. I have learned to understand a bit better why people believe as u do, and can respect a brave man fighting and dying for a cause in which he believes in the service of his country or cause.. once I found both impossible..

I am able to understand why a man will die for country or cause, but not to kill for it... I still believe the military, whether it be institutional military of nation or a freedom fighting guerrilla organisation terrorist, but I have learned to understand more why people believe as they do..

I have also learned to understand why groups such as Al Qaeda act as they do but that understanding has not led me to loathe what they do any the less.. and it is not as most would have us believe simply because they are murderous bastards.. which they are... but not simply.. anything but simply.. that is me losing, from my perspective, my ignorance over years..we may like or loathe what military organisations do, yet we can understand and even applaud the sentiments which have erroneously made people decide to act as they do..

The ends do not always justify the means not when human life is at stake... we learn and lose ignorance and use that knowledge for our own purposes.. and we use that lack of ignorance, I hope to be less ignorant in our treatment of other people...

I did not see the Ellen programme so am unable to comment.. but people do speak ignorantly (rudely) out of ignorance (lack of knowledge and understanding) very often.. and out of that ignorance so often rises hate and so many of the phobias and base isms from which our species so badly suffers... losing ignorance so often helps people act less ignorantly and helps make our world a better place...

[Long Duck Dong]

all I am seeing is you trying to defend and justify your right to be demeaning of others opinions and thinking....

I come back to the cynthia nixon issue..... told how she may express her opinion about herself in regards to her life and her understanding, cos it doesn't fit what other people want her to say..... does it make cynthia ignorant for expressing her opinion about her life etc etc.... or does it make the other people, narrow minded and closed minded when it comes to others opinions if it doesn't match their own thinking

[darkeyes]

I tend to argue on issues Duckie... if arguing on issues is demeaning then so be it... I can't help what you see.. what happened to Cynthia Nixon isnt pertinent to me because it is not how I think or wish to act... and no it does not make people closed minded and narrow when the opinions of others does not match their own.. it simply means that they think and believe differently, and just as I have the right to take issue with them, they certainly have the right to argue all they like with me...

[Long Duck Dong]

I have no issues with arguments or debates.... as they are debating a issue, a scenerio, a situation...... I am just noticing how people will label others with demeaning / devaluing labels.... but scream about being labeled themselves.......

as for cynthia nixon.... your answer says it all.......

[darkeyes]

.. but you do have issues with argument and debate Duckie.. u always have.. which is why u nit pick and accuse others of doing precisely what u do yourself.. u demean and devalue their critiques and opinions by accusing them of doing just what u do yourself....

[elian]

Merrh, I'm not sure how the LGBT community "censors" someone, as in stops them from exercising their right to free speech..?

People have been trying to get me to shut up for a long time..

[Long Duck Dong]

.. but you do have issues with argument and debate Duckie.. u always have.. which is why u nit pick and accuse others of doing precisely what u do yourself.. u demean and devalue their critiques and opinions by accusing them of doing just what u do yourself....

fran do you call your students ignorant ?

as a teacher I would assume that you would understand that some people learn from text books, some are visual, some are theory and some are practical...... but each student has a different way of doing things and learning........ and for some, one of the best ways to learn is to put ideas into action.......

I have no issues with debate and argument.... I have a keen interest in learning from all sides, to improve my understanding of any situation....and my life experiences reflect that.....as I have a analogical mind but I perfer to learn by theory applied practically...... and that is exactly what I do

I have run businesses, I have certs in a few areas, and I have a wide range of understanding and experience in breaking down scenerios and aspects of situations...... I also failed school, and left at 14.... and have been called ignorant, most of my life, and some of my biggest detractors are people that are quick to dismiss other peoples thoughts and feelings and reasoning, as uneducated, ignorant, uninformed, lacking in understanding.......yet none of them have the skills, certs, knowledge and understanding that I do... but they are always calling in professional people to fix their computers, cars, tv's stereos, etc etc..... and I am one of the people they call in......

yes fran, I am ignorant, its why I often get thanked for my insight and understanding in the forum, with issues and the way I actually look at the issue without passing judgement

[darkeyes]

We rarely agree u and I.. doubt it ever will happen either.. but yes I have called a pupil of mine ignorant.. not because of lack of knowledge or understanding, but because of ill manners and rudeness.. an adult however is often a very different matter.. in theory mature and well versed in the ways of the world but all too often anything but for reasons which are hardly laudible.. I have certainly never called u ignorant.. so dont get uppity and indignant with me about that.. u and I have different ways of dealing with the world.. yes I judge.. when I feel it appropriate to judge.. and express opinions for good or ill.. I don't often sit on the fence because that isnt me... everyone judges even although many say they dont.. u do that too.. u judge me for a start which is why we are having this dicussion.. but thats fine because I dont mind in the least.. as soon as we say anything we set ourselves up to be judged...

You do ur thing as u always have, Duckie, if it works for u.. for my part I will do mine...

[Long Duck Dong]

put yourself in my shoes fran..... when I am talking with you, I have to think as you and as myself..... cos on a number of issues we have a difference of opinion, but often we agree on things, such as pacifism...... but what causes too many issues in the forum with me and others, is that I see many sides to things, but people often see their side only.....and that is why so many people see me as taking sides, and not as sitting on the fence and agreeing with people while presenting another side to the debate.....

honestly a lot of what I do is for a reason........ did you actually read what I have been posting..... cos in the original post, the person refers to talking in a lunch room and how the other person was a christian talking about what was on the ellen show.... I changed it to a person on the ellen show said....... and I was curious if anybody would pick up on that......

ignorance...... it exists everywhere....

[*pan*]

the only thing i hate is hate it self, the idea of hating, one can dislike without hating, hate is a prelude to being an extremist. hate causes anger and is intensified by the constant dwelling on a topic or subject one targets as something they hate, and anger can get out of control which leads to harm. it never ceases to amaze me how people who claim to be religious or good citizens can justify hating and harming something or someone because they rationalize it in their mind and justify it with their logic no matter how twisted it might be and convince other me too fools to go along with them. while were doing all this banning nowadays why don't we ban hate period. hate poisons the heart and leads to no good. of course this is just my opinion to this.

[natsuto]

In this case, it is just as ignorance of the requirements of boxing. No, I'm not saying that the request of any person of any abuse. However, in this case, you say you are impervious, you wanted more.

[Dapper_Fellow]

This may be off topic, but my brother in law is from Indonesia and I think it is a bit far fetched to call Indonesia an "extremist religious" country. Indonesia is quite moderate (especially when compared with other countries that are predominantly Islamic in their populations religious makeup). Also Indonesia is a religiously pluralistic society that enshrines rights to protect Hindu and Native Tribal religions (of which there are literally hundreds). Lastly, Indonesia is one of the most progressive countries on the planet in their treatment of their transsexual populace.

That said, I agree, we must avoid censorship at all costs. This woman's opinion is obviously not factually rooted, and engenders attitudes that lead to the social climate that contributes to the suicide epidemic. However, she is entitled to her opinion nonetheless. Let me tell you from personal experience that engaging these people is the key to changing their hearts and minds, and that there is no greater satisfaction than when somebody comes up to you to say, "Wow, you made me realize that I have been wrong all this time." Healing their hate is infinitely more rewarding than letting it infect you.

[Badga]

It is not ignorance because it differs from my opinion but it is ignorance because it ignores proven fact in favor of religeous retoric

[eitherway<3]

im a christian and bi, i dont see why being gay is such a big deal?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

LMAO..! OMG Fun, thank you for that! I was going to ask him since when did he become the grammer/spelling monitor...
Pecks your cheek and passes the plate of cookies..:}
Chuckling Cat