Hubby & Wife Divorce Questions

[wantus269]

A friend of mine is going through some trying times with his wife(for now) and asked me a few questions I could not answer maybe some of you can help me help him:

He and his wife have been split up for 5months. She is staying at her friends and he is in their house. She has some hurt feelings from his lack of controlling his mouth when mad, hes never hit her, or cheated on her nor has she cheated on him.
At first she said she would come back after he made some changes, helping around the house, being a better husband showing more love and affection, etc.
But the longer she was gone the more hurt she felt thinking of more and more bad times and none of the good times.
She recently told him she loved him but was not in love with him anymore and she was going to be filing for divorce. She doesnt want anything(material things) and has agreed to sign everything over to him.

His questions to me was:
*will she eventually regret leaving and want to come back?
*are her hurt feelings going to subside and will she eventually realize what we had together
*is there anyway to get her to fall in live with me again?

and im at a loss for words to him!
Many of our friends who are divorced have all told him their ex's tried to come back. All of our friends have told him they all see her coming back after some time to herself and that they all picture them together, but i have my doubts.
She said she has no desire to date or see anyone else for a very long time and he said he doesnt either.
She told him she wanted to stay friends.

Help me help him!
THANKS!

[DuckiesDarling]

From what you posted....the time away from him made her realize how few good times there were and that pretty much let her evaluate the relationship. He should just move on and realize that she has grown apart from him. Some people want exes back because it was a comfortable fwb thing, but as for me if my ex tried to come near me I'd gut him :) Like your friend's wife, I got to the point I was done waiting for him to grow up, I even forgave an infidelity and had another child afterwards, but it didn't make my husband grow up and do more around the house and with the kids. I grew up..he didn't so after 10 years of marriage I filed for divorce and found I was not as alone as I was afraid I'd be.

Tell your friend to just do the divorce and move on with his life as it's pretty obvious the wife has. A clean break will make it easier on both parties.

[Long Duck Dong]

I am curious about the fact that there is no mention of the husbands actions or intentions with dealing with his issues that his wife has mentioned.....

I am not going to assume that he has done nothing to deal with them or take positive steps in order to resolve the issues within himself..... I will let you answer that..

I am going to assume based around your post, that the issue with the mouth is something that happened on a regular basis if there is that many bad times for for the wife to dwell on and think about.... you need to correct me on that if I am wrong.....

something about what the wife is saying, reads to me like she just wants to move on with her life and be free of the situation and the husband, the desire to be friends, reads like a * peace offering * with him, as they have not found enuf reason to return......

as for reconciling and getting back together, its possible, I have seen it happen in a number of unlikely situations, but I want to be clear however, that it doesn't happen in many cases...... so I am not offering any hope that it will or saying that it will happen in this case......

the best the husband can do, is work on his own issues, or he will end up bringing them into his next relationship.... so thats a personal choice and path for him to decide on, not him and his wife and not with the interests of saving / rebuilding the marriage..... that way the pain of the past, is not the promise of the future....

[fubar13]

Someone told me once long ago, & I find it to be mostly true, that a man marries a woman thinking she'll never change...A woman marries a man, thinking what she'll change....Until a couple comes to grips with this' things will probably never change between the two of you. Another old saying, you can't go home again, getting "back" together seldom works out...the same problems are still there & will return. Tell your friend to just get on with his life...It will get better.

[FunE1]

Wantus:

Once a woman has put forth the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" statement, it is VERY difficult to get back to a point where a couple will reconcile. Especially when the woman is at the point where she is willing to just give up everything (that is: property, etc.) to get out.

Is there any way for him to get her to fall in love with him? Probably not... but that doesn't mean it's impossible, just that there's a long, difficult row to how ahead for him.

I would recommend your friend search for DivorceBusters and related services/books/etc.

I hate to be negative, but this comes from my experience as a three-time divorcee.

It really doesn't matter right now where HE IS with is thinking, but has everything to do with where his SPOUSE IS.

If he seriously wants this to work out, it is an outside possibility, but he really needs the help of people who have SUCCESSFULLY dealt with this before, thus DivorceBusters or a similar group.

I am sorry your friend has to be going thru this; I've been there a few, uhm, 3 times myself (without the help I'm suggesting). Kudos to you for trying to help him out.

Jim

[keefer201]

I don't know how things go down in Florida, but up here in NJ, if a woman went to a freinds during the seperation, and after only 5 months, now wants a divorce AND nothing material from the marriage....well. Those months with the ostensible "friends" were months that he had wished he was a fly on the wall listening to what was being said. For her to say she doesn't want anything material from the marriage, I am assuming that this includes any equity in the house they have. It's not mentioned how old they are, but I am guessing that they must be younger because older adults don't typically walk away from marriages with just a duffle bag. My guess; her friends were filling her head with more crap, when in reality she should have been spending more time to herself trying to figure things out. I might also suspect that she is not only dating someone but is very near to moving in with him. This story sounds taylor made for infidelity from a sneaky spouse.

[wantus269]

I appreciate all the replies!

I should have included more info.......

They are in their mid 20's, they have been together for about 10 years married for 3 years.
He has gotten a good handle on his issues, and is working consistently hard on correcting them, and he has been doing a very good job at it since she has brought it to his attention after she moved to her friends. He asked her to go to marriage counseling, and after 3 sessions she said she didnt see it helping them and refused to go back. He told me that the first session was with both of them, the second was them seperate, and the 3rd was them together again. He said that they had just gotten all her hurt feelings and issues out on the table and were jsut starting to sort through them to get results when she said she wasnt going back. I feel so terrible for him, and her, they are both such great people who BELONG TOGETHER, but I truly believe that she has told herself that its over, he wont change, and theres no help. Someone once told me if you tell yourself something enough you truly start to believe it and I think thats exactly what she has done!
He said he doesnt have ANY complaints against her, he says and always had said, she is a perfect wife and soulmate and he wouldnt change anything even if he could!
He has been a very good listener, he has admitted his faults, taken responsibility for their marriage failing, tamed his anger issues, has done a wonderful job at watching what he says before he says it, words things completely different now, doesnt cuss near as much as before, has found himself closer to church, and has distanced himself from the friends that seem to be a bad influence, made a complete turn around on the chores around the house, started to learn how to cook, stopped hunting and fishing as much as he did before, and even offered to sell his hunting and fishing equipment(boat included) to make more time for "them". I can tell a big difference in how he reacts to things now, not only with her but with his friends and family also. Before he would get very defensive, place blame on everyone but himself, and yell and cuss. Now he listens completely, admits his mistakes, and asks for input on how to correct them. He doesnt raise his voice, doesnt get defensive anymore and I think its just short of a miracle! I wouldve never thought he could have made that change!
He has asked for dates, one-on-one time, he even asked to sell everything they had and start over from scratch, but she has refused all of the above.
She keeps telling him that she needs "her time", shes not interested in dating, going out on the town, or anything of that sort. She has engulfed herself in work and just basically hangs out at other friends houses on the weekends to basically avoid the problem.
He and her friend, which she now lives with, are very good friends also and she is giving him good advice and keeping him up to speed on the latest news and "talks" so he is getting, what I believe, accurate info.
They both are such anti-cheating people that I couldnt fathom her having another person in her life, but...........anythings possible I suppose.

Again, thank you for all your replies. And I will let him know about the divorce buster thing maybe he can google it and find some good advice!

[Long Duck Dong]

ok their age tells me everything... it sounds like she has been with him since they were teenagers and she has never really had her own life or * her time * time to who she is as a person without a partner.....

his efforts are admirable and I respect the extent to which he has gone to, in order to sort himself out.... but hes up against something that may be beyond anything he can compete with... and thats simply her freedom to be herself as a single woman....

being anti cheating, means that a person will not entertain another person if they are in a relationship or married, but it doesn't mean that they will not have a person in their lives if they are single or divorced......
something that many relationship / marriage counsellors will talk about is high school sweethearts that part, and how both of them have to learn to live again as most of the years where people *experiment and seriously date* were spent with the same person.... and in the case of your two friends, thats exactly what is happening.....

the husband is showing signs of struggling with being on his own, the wife is embracing her new found freedom and not interesting in returning to the * confines * of married life.....

he needs to allow her the time to find herself and accept the friendship offer, or he may end up costing himself the friendship as well as his marriage......

[wantus269]

He has definately said that if he cant have her as his one and only he wants to keep her close as a friend! They are such good people and do so much for everyone else that I think they have lost their spark in their own relationship!

He has stopped pressuring her and calling daily as he feels it will only push her away and cost him her friendship. He would be completely beside himself if they atleast couldnt be friends!

And thank the Lord they dont have any children!

[bityme]

She has some hurt feelings from his lack of controlling his mouth when mad, hes never hit her, or cheated on her nor has she cheated on him.
At first she said she would come back after he made some changes, helping around the house, being a better husband showing more love and affection, etc.
But the longer she was gone the more hurt she felt thinking of more and more bad times and none of the good times.
She recently told him she loved him but was not in love with him anymore and she was going to be filing for divorce. She doesnt want anything(material things) and has agreed to sign everything over to him.

My comments here come from the perspective of having practiced law for over 20 years and handled several thousands of divorces.

This is a wife who, no doubt, feels she was abused, if not physically, then emotionally. She wants out of the marriage. Love which had been the cement that held the marriage together has crumbled into dust and she has no intention of going back. She is willing to give up everything she might be entitled to in the form of property division in order to get away fast.


His questions to me was:
*will she eventually regret leaving and want to come back?

While women who are abused will often return or allow the abuser back into their life, once they finally realize that the abuse was because of the personality type of the abuser, and not because they were somehow at fault, the separation is almost always permanent. It is doubtful that she will ever regret anything other than not having come to the realization earlier.



*are her hurt feelings going to subside and will she eventually realize what we had together

She may reach a point where she will acknowledge that there were some good times, but she will have also developed the mindset that none of it was worth having to undergo even one instance of abuse.


*is there anyway to get her to fall in live with me again?

I have never seen this happen. She will always wish him the best and hope that he gets help for his problem, but no matter what he does or how he changes his own life, she will never trust either him or herself being together again. He was successful in being an abuser, probably for the majority of their ten-year relationship. It would be too easy for both of them to eventually fall back into their own patterns of past conduct.


They are in their mid 20's, they have been together for about 10 years married for 3 years.

Which means they never had any opportunity to experience life as a single person. Neither of them really know what love is. The picked up on one of their first real attractions and fell into a pattern of dealing with each other. He took the macho role, establishing his dominance, and she became subservient to him. He probably called all of the shots and she never had the opportunity to establish herself as a capable adult apart from him. Their youth means they never came to the realization that they didn't need the other to be a complete person,


He has gotten a good handle on his issues, and is working consistently hard on correcting them, and he has been doing a very good job at it since she has brought it to his attention after she moved to her friends. He asked her to go to marriage counseling, and after 3 sessions she said she didnt see it helping them and refused to go back. He told me that the first session was with both of them, the second was them seperate, and the 3rd was them together again. He said that they had just gotten all her hurt feelings and issues out on the table and were jsut starting to sort through them to get results when she said she wasnt going back. I feel so terrible for him, and her, they are both such great people who BELONG TOGETHER, but I truly believe that she has told herself that its over, he wont change, and theres no help. Someone once told me if you tell yourself something enough you truly start to believe it and I think thats exactly what she has done!
He said he doesnt have ANY complaints against her, he says and always had said, she is a perfect wife and soulmate and he wouldnt change anything even if he could!

If he had no complaints about her and all the issues were out on the table, that means he probably has some deep seated problems independent of her. There may have been abuse in his past that he observed or was the victim of. It's possible that he had an abusive father who dominated his mother and/or him. Something that set the pattern for him which he later followed.

It is quite possible that she understands that he would not be able to change with them together, the temptation would be to great to fall back into their old comfortable roles. If he has a chance of actually overcoming his problems, it will have to be without someone who has been an enabler for him in the past.


I can tell a big difference in how he reacts to things now, not only with her but with his friends and family also. Before he would get very defensive, place blame on everyone but himself, and yell and cuss. Now he listens completely, admits his mistakes, and asks for input on how to correct them. He doesnt raise his voice, doesnt get defensive anymore and I think its just short of a miracle! I wouldve never thought he could have made that change!

You are apparently a very good friend and you think the change in him is "just short of a miracle." To the wife, it probably appears as a good public relations campaign he is putting on. He is probably adept at keeping his true character from his friends. If he wasn't, you would have picked up on his abuse of her long ago. Instead of asking for help here, you would be saying: "Hey Dude! She should have left you long ago! I'm surprised she didn't leave you years ago!" If you would have "never thought he could have made that change," imagine what she is thinking of it now.

Yes, he has changed, but they have only been separated for 5 months. How long will it take for those changes actually become permanent? It usually takes years to successfully reshape an abusive personality, particularly if it came about as the result of having been abused himself.


She keeps telling him that she needs "her time", shes not interested in dating, going out on the town, or anything of that sort. She has engulfed herself in work and just basically hangs out at other friends houses on the weekends to basically avoid the problem.

She is being very cautious. She probably realizes just how vulnerable she is. It is not unusual for a woman to go from one abusive relationship to another. She needs the time to get a handle on her own emotions, to learn how to detect the signs that someone new might also be abusive, and to make sure that any new relationship does not fit the pattern of the old one.

They both need an opportunity to grow up without the co-dependency of their prior relationship. Their getting back together would be a big mistake. It would be too easy for them to fall back into the pattern. With her probably having realized that she was not the reason for his abusive nature, continuing their marriage would raise the possibility of her forceful response and possible use of violence.

He has also got to think of his own safety. There has been a substantial increase in the numbers of men whose wives or girlfriends have used sharp instruments in attacks upon their man's manhood.

If she is smart, she will never go back. If he is smart, he will realize that he would be too tempted to return to his old patterns of conduct. He needs to finish making the changes for himself and anyone who might he he might become involved with. He also needs more life experience before finally settling down into another 24/7 relationship.

Pappy

[keefer201]

This is going to sound horrible but; bityme, you should recuse yourself from offering advice on these matters. Lawyers are some of the biggest scumbags on the planet and in particular divorce lawyers. A profession known to incite, and deliberatly at that, hatred between two individuals who are ending a marriage.

[jamieknyc]

This is going to sound horrible but; bityme, you should recuse yourself from offering advice on these matters. Lawyers are some of the biggest scumbags on the planet and in particular divorce lawyers. A profession known to incite, and deliberatly at that, hatred between two individuals who are ending a marriage.

Tell me, when you get sick, do you say your doctor is a scumbag who encouraged you to have unhealthy habits?

One of the reasons I have gotten out of handling divorces is that I am sick of trying to get bitter, hostile matrimonial clients to be reasonable. It would be more productive to go beat my head against the wall.

[Katja]

This is going to sound horrible but; bityme, you should recuse yourself from offering advice on these matters. Lawyers are some of the biggest scumbags on the planet and in particular divorce lawyers. A profession known to incite, and deliberatly at that, hatred between two individuals who are ending a marriage.

As one who was married to a solicitor who in my opinion was and is just such a lawyer as you describe, I can say without fear of valid contradiction that the vast majority of solicitors and barristers in this country are on the whole good and decent practicioners of their profession.

I could name, for I know them personally, well over 50 solicitors and barristers in this and the adjacent counties alone who certainly make a very good living, but who also sacrifice much to aid and assist the less well off in actions against richer and more powerful individuals and organisations. Many give of their own time and money to advise and aid individuals up against it, charitable organisations and other good causes and sacrifice often thousands of pounds in the pursuance of justice.

There are many shady and very crooked lawyers in my country and your own, but for every rich shady lawyer there are dozens who are honest and decent human beings who, should they choose, could act as you claim very easily. That they do not is because they are honourable men and women and would no more think of acting dishonestly than would the overwhelming majority of any other profession.

Had you used the expression 'some lawyers' I may have had some sympathy with your argument but by tarring all with the brush of 'scumbag' your criticism withers and rots and becomes no more than an expression of ill informed prejudice. But had you used the expression 'some lawyers' your criticism of Bityme would have carried less weight than you would wish and have no more force than a child's soap bubble in the breeze.

[keefer201]

Let me ammend myself here. I do not think that bityme is a scumbag and do not think all lawyers are scumbags. I have a bad tendancy to broad brush at times. My apologies.

[bityme]

This is going to sound horrible but; bityme, you should recuse yourself from offering advice on these matters. Lawyers are some of the biggest scumbags on the planet and in particular divorce lawyers. A profession known to incite, and deliberatly at that, hatred between two individuals who are ending a marriage.

Keefer,

You might note that I didn't give legal advice. I referenced my experience as a means of indicating how I knew about such circumstances.

Had I been one of those to whom you refer, I'd have said he should get the divorce agreement drawn up and have her sign everything over to him and let the divorce become final before he though of getting back with her. That way he'd have all the property as his separate property and wouldn't have to split it with her again if he screwed up and she left the second time around.

Attorneys have a bad reputation, not because they incite hatred, but because in protecting their clients, no one is ever happy with the result. Most cases are resolved by negotiation, not trial, although generally, you get a similar result. It is very seldom that someone gets everything they want. That is what compromise is about.

I have to agree with Jamieknyc. For the same reason I stopped doing divorce work in the early 1990s, and because clients were the same in other areas I retired from my law practice in 1999 and began teaching and returned to school myself. Retired again this year and couldn't be happier.

Just wondering. Since you commented only on my status and not on what I said in the post it would appear that you either agreed with what I said or you never read past the fact that I had practiced law and that was all you needed to get a post in. Which was it?

Pappy

[wantus269]

Can we keep on track here, lets not get derailed.

I personally appreciate all the advice and opinions given, no matter what their occupation or how they came up with the advice.

[wantus269]

Anybody else have any input on this?

[Realist]

An ex-brother in law, is a lawyer.

He is a very thoughtful, considerate person, but, when he is working for a client, he does his job with focus on his client's best interest.

He told me that you have to be prepared for at least one person hating you during legal actions. No matter what the outcome, as a result of litigation, (especially divorce proceedings) he's gonna end up being a son of a bitch to someone!