Racism Still Alive and Well in the good ole US of A

[12voltman59]

So much for following in the footsteps of Jesus:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45499321/ns/us_news/#.TtgaQ9WwVG

[SoFlaPolyCouple]

They're not following in the footsteps of Jesus. Racism is inherently UN-Christian. Paul dealt with the issue of racism, among other issues, when it reared it's ugly head in Galatia. The Jews in the Galatian church felt themselves superior to the Gentile believers, as did the rich over the poor, the free men over the slaves, etc. Paul wrote, "for in Christ you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
These racists should be ashamed of themselves. They have no place in a Christian church.

[void()]

They're not following in the footsteps of Jesus. Racism is inherently UN-Christian. Paul dealt with the issue of racism, among other issues, when it reared it's ugly head in Galatia. The Jews in the Galatian church felt themselves superior to the Gentile believers, as did the rich over the poor, the free men over the slaves, etc. Paul wrote, "for in Christ you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
These racists should be ashamed of themselves. They have no place in a Christian church.

Thank you. More should hold such an opinion. Would feel honored if you were friends, no matter your faith. You truly abide the faith and keep its integrity. Again, thank you.

[R. R. Wayne]

Wow. Now I am really confused. What does this have to do with being bi-sexual?

Perhaps we should include some news clippings about conditions in Darfur or global warming. On second thought, let's keep this Forum tuned to bi-sexual issues.

[12voltman59]

Wow. Now I am really confused. What does this have to do with being bi-sexual?

Perhaps we should include some news clippings about conditions in Darfur or global warming. On second thought, let's keep this Forum tuned to bi-sexual issues.

As you can see by the date I joined here----I have been here a long time----it was determined a long time ago by people here then and that are here at this time that this board is not just for topics of a sexual nature-----it is open for people to post up topics on anything they chose and if others don't like a particular topic---then they don't have to open it up to read or post on those thread topics that don't interest them.

[falcondfw]

Wow. Now I am really confused. What does this have to do with being bi-sexual?

Perhaps we should include some news clippings about conditions in Darfur or global warming. On second thought, let's keep this Forum tuned to bi-sexual issues.

R.R., i don't understand. What is the problem with having a brain and an opinion on something besides sex?
Racism is a serious issue in the USA. As is AIDS. As are the next Presidential/Congressional Elections.
Why should anyone fear to voice an opinion on anything, as long as they are civil and respectful?
Maybe I am speaking out of turn, but having been on here a while and having seen Drew's policies for acceptance, tolerance, peace, and respect, I severely doubt he would disagree with me.
If you are looking for a sex only site, maybe you should join adultfriendfinder and try to deal with the trolls, instead of discussing with real people.

[æonpax]

`
As a person who dates blacks (m/f) and has a 7 year old biracial daughter, in my experience, racial hatred, prejudice and bigotry never went away. It has however, buried itself deep within certain religious and political ideologies.
`

[keefer201]

`
As a person who dates blacks (m/f) and has a 7 year old biracial daughter, in my experience, racial hatred, prejudice and bigotry never went away. It has however, buried itself deep within certain religious and political ideologies.
`

Suggestions on eradication? Irradiation is not allowed.

[æonpax]

Suggestions on eradication? Irradiation is not allowed.


There is no solution, only insight. Racism, prejudice, bigotry, bias and especially hatred, might never go away. Consider this, in the book “The Key to My Neighbor's House: Seeking Justice in Bosnia and Rwanda”, the author, Elizabeth Neuffer, basically starts with a narrative about life in Yugoslavia under the dictatorship of Marshal Josip Broz Tito. While from a western view, dictatorships appear bad, it truth, looks can be deceiving.

The Balkans have a bloody history of war and fighting, which was complicated not only ethnicity but religion, the Bosnians being predominantly Islamic and the Serbs, Christian. Under the iron rule of Tito, people whom had been for generations (if not centuries) fighting amongst each other, were forced to live in peace…and it actually started working. The title of the book centers around a Muslim and Christian family living next door to each other. The Christian so trusted his Muslim neighbor, that he gave him the key to his house.

When Tito died and Yugoslavia split apart, Serbian president Slobodan Milošević was able to tap into the repressed and subterfuged animosities and hatred , going back hundreds of years, between the Muslims and Christians…the rest, as they say, is history.

The actions of a small, insignificant, Christian church in the backwater area of Kentucky, should not be used as a measure for all Christians, and yet, I am not at all surprised by this incident, other than to say (considering today’s political climate); what took them so long. All it takes sometimes is one person, one incident and in this case, one church, to cause a ripple effect whereby people start digging up their long buried axes of hate and discrimination, and there goes generations of racial progress, down in bloody flames.

It's the Human Condition

[DuckiesDarling]

From what I'm seeing the Pastor is against the resolution, so it makes you wonder what handful of racist idiots decided to push for this and how quickly it will be taken down.

This is harmful to humanity as a whole in my opinion, you do not pick who you fall in love with. Not the color of the skin, not the sex of the person and not the political beliefs. To rule against couples in love on the basis of any of those is an utter abomination to equal rights.

[johnd224]

This is disgusting. It's not the first time though that I've heard of churches taking issue with interracial marriage, even these days. If I'm not mistaken, nationalism certainly existed in bible times, but the concept of "race" as we know it today was non-existent. So... their stance on interracial marriage can only come from their own personal prejudices. There is only one race, the human race.

[darkeyes]

Wow. Now I am really confused. What does this have to do with being bi-sexual?

Perhaps we should include some news clippings about conditions in Darfur or global warming. On second thought, let's keep this Forum tuned to bi-sexual issues.

Sweetheart, all the great issues of humankind, and most of the not so great are issues which affect bisexuals directly to a lesser or greater degree. We are more than the sum of our genitals and with whom we sleep. We have discussed global warming more than once, and shall again, and many other of the great tragedies of our world. :)

Are we to be so heartless, soulless and selfish, so lacking in feeling and compassion that while the world burns, and human beings around the earth suffer often the greatest of tragedies and oppressions, millions of bisexual, gay and transgendered human beings included, we should discuss only issues of how and whose genitalia and cast bisexuals adrift on the sea of isolation away from the rest of humanity?

[sammie19]

How often have I heard people say "I am not racist but wouldnt like my son or daughter to marry one"? The minute I hear the word but I know them to be what they say they are not.

I have had the occasional racist remark made to me by Scottish people . Coming from less than 10 miles south of the border and speaking with my native Northumbrian twang, a few times Scottish people have called me an "English bitch" or "slut" and told me to go home.

I have sometimes felt threatened by the aggressivess of some who quite obviously are picking on me because of where I come from and how I speak. Some back off when I tell them my parents are both Scottish and that I was educated at a Scottish school but to some being English is enough and to speak with an English accent is more than enough to justify their hatred of me. But whether they back off or not it remains a fact that they are racist.

Racism is alive and well everywhere and is irrational and stupid. I am not religious but even a fool like me knows that Apartheid has no place in a religion such as Christianity.

[lizard-lix]

Religion must be racist.. Us and them is a basic measure of all religions, and if it isn't fundamental, someone usually adds it quickly.

So it is the pious and the infidel, or white and black, or us and anyone else...

Just listen to Rogers & Hammerstein's "You Have to be Carefully Taught" from South Pacific...

Damn shame... When it was supposed to be just the opposite..

[darkeyes]

I have had the occasional racist remark made to me by Scottish people . Coming from less than 10 miles south of the border and speaking with my native Northumbrian twang, a few times Scottish people have called me an "English bitch" or "slut" and told me to go home.

I have sometimes felt threatened by the aggressivess of some who quite obviously are picking on me because of where I come from and how I speak. Some back off when I tell them my parents are both Scottish and that I was educated at a Scottish school but to some being English is enough and to speak with an English accent is more than enough to justify their hatred of me. But whether they back off or not it remains a fact that they are racist.


Not, me lil hot 'n spicy pepper pot, wile Kate, me, Ally, cuz Jo an ne of a doz others r ne wer wivvin earshot!!!:)

[jamieknyc]

In Christianity, or at least in Protestant Christianity, each church is free to make its own beliefs, so there is nothing in the religious faith that bars any church from adopting any beliefs, no matter how offensive.

[Realist]

Different races dislike other races, different religions preach hatred for other religions, ethnic peoples--who all look the same can't get along, etc, etc.....
There are all forms of racism and I've often been reminded of how many twists and turns it can take.

One example has always mystified me.

For years, I've known a black lady, who was a flight attendant, but is now in nursing. She is an exceptionally intelligent person, a great conversationalist, and has a smart business sense.

She does have one quirk I've long thought strange......she will NOT date any black men, PERIOD! She had ONE brief relationship with a black kid in high school and he was the last!

At a party several years ago, I saw her turn down a request for a dinner date with a handsome black guy, who was well-spoken, nice-looking, and articulate.

Instead, she accepted an offer from a white fellow, who was several times divorced, sometimes unkempt, and had few social graces. They ended up dating for about a year. He was often rude to her in public and it was embarrassing to me to see them together. She was noticeably embarrassed a few times, but still stayed with him. I was amazed that she would put up with that kind of treatment.

I didn't interfere, but I had to bite my tongue to prevent telling her to get the hell out of that relationship and away from that asshole! Luckily, he was an exception and they didn't last long. That is probably the most drastic example I could think of. She dated other white fellows I felt were beneath her, but none were as bad as that one. She did tend to be drawn to "bad boys".

To be fair, sometime after the incident above, she began a long-term relationship with a white fellow, who is well-matched for her. He was considerate, has a good job, well-liked and respected. I haven't met him, but friends who associate with them say they appear to be happy and relaxed with each other. In fact, they've been together for several years, now. That must be a good sign, because her relationships never seemed to last long, before.

I'm satisfied that she's OK, now, but surely she could have met someone from any other races and found happiness, too. ...or maybe not, who knows?

Now, I know there's different strokes for different folks, but I find it difficult to understand why she always chose skin color over all else.

I have dated out of my race with Oriental, Black, and American Indian. I liked their skin color, but I was more focused on the person, rather than the color of their skin.

I guess to some, skin color is the most important attraction.

[jamieknyc]

For years, I've known a black lady, who was a flight attendant, but is now in nursing. She is an exceptionally intelligent person, a great conversationalist, and has a smart business sense.

She does have one quirk I've long thought strange......she will NOT date any black men, PERIOD! She had ONE brief relationship with a black kid in high school and he was the last!

At a party several years ago, I saw her turn down a request for a dinner date with a handsome black guy, who was well-spoken, nice-looking, and articulate.

.

So you know, black people consider it offensive to refer to a black person as "well-spoken" or "articulate."

[æonpax]

<snipped for brevity> I guess to some, skin color is the most important attraction.

I've been "dating" a black man for about eight years now. He too, is professional, articulate, but still has a very pronounced French accent. Being in public with him, over the years, I've learned to recognize, if not sense, racial animosity. Most of it comes from body language and looks. It also comes from both black and white.

I'm not talking hate or outright racism, just people on both sides with a bias (or prejudice) when it comes to couples. Funny thing though, I've also seen this exact same racial bias when it comes to salt and pepper M/M and F/F couples.

Food for thought.

[Realist]

Hmmm, never had that experience, J.

You made an all-encompassing comment, that I doubt would hold up in court. Maybe SOME folks, of any ethnic group might take offense, but I doubt if ALL would.

As a retired supervisor of military personnel, I have often used similar terms to describe personal characteristics, speaking skills, and ability to communicate well with others.

I'd estimate that in my 30 years of service, that I've had at least 300 personnel directly under my supervisory control...both Military and civilian.

During that time, I have never had one complaint for the reasons you posted above.

[12voltman59]

In thinking more about this story----I have no reason to say this----but I have had connections with small independent churches like this over the years and what often happens in them---you get factions that build up and then all kinds of not so nice stuff begins to happen with it sort of becoming a small scale version of the feud between the Hatfields and McCoys.

This situation could have as much to do with such a fight going on in that church as it does racism-----like I said----I have nothing to base that on other than a hunch and "what my gut tells me" about it.

I have seen many a small church break up over such fights--either having been involved more closely myself or from a distance with family, friends, co-workers, etc being members of such churches.

[matutum]

As you can see by the date I joined here----I have been here a long time----it was determined a long time ago by people here then and that are here at this time that this board is not just for topics of a sexual nature-----it is open for people to post up topics on anything they chose and if others don't like a particular topic---then they don't have to open it up to read or post on those thread topics that don't interest them.Texas and Hawaii are to me the most racist states.When i posted a few questions on here I had one person say "can't someone block him""get him to shutup!"Apparently my questions about being bi and spreading std's and other disease's didn't sit well with this person.I should be blocked. I was mad about what was said but then realized this person making the comment was expressing what he really felt.He is entitled.And i do have the right to free speech....

[lizard-lix]

Well Texas is Texas.. but after growing up on the east coast (Florida) and living in NY for years, (then moving back to FL) then here near San Antonio, I find Texans more outspoken and blunt, but no more racist, in fact often less. They will be be tough, but then give a person a fair chance.

But Dallas and Houston may be different, I am not sure.

My sister felt that way in Hawaii, but my wife and I didn't and we spent a lot of time out of the tourist zones and in regular neighborhoods and at local events. We got on fine. But we never lived there.

So I guess the view is not the same to everyone...

[Hephaestion]

There is no solution, only insight. Racism, prejudice, bigotry, bias and especially hatred, might never go away. Consider this, in the book “The Key to My Neighbor's House: Seeking Justice in Bosnia and Rwanda”, the author, Elizabeth Neuffer, basically starts with a narrative about life in Yugoslavia under the dictatorship of Marshal Josip Broz Tito. While from a western view, dictatorships appear bad, it truth, looks can be deceiving.

The Balkans have a bloody history of war and fighting, which was complicated not only ethnicity but religion, the Bosnians being predominantly Islamic and the Serbs, Christian. Under the iron rule of Tito, people whom had been for generations (if not centuries) fighting amongst each other, were forced to live in peace…and it actually started working. The title of the book centers around a Muslim and Christian family living next door to each other. The Christian so trusted his Muslim neighbor, that he gave him the key to his house.

When Tito died and Yugoslavia split apart, Serbian president Slobodan Milošević was able to tap into the repressed and subterfuged animosities and hatred , going back hundreds of years, between the Muslims and Christians…the rest, as they say, is history.

The actions of a small, insignificant, Christian church in the backwater area of Kentucky, should not be used as a measure for all Christians, and yet, I am not at all surprised by this incident, other than to say (considering today’s political climate); what took them so long. All it takes sometimes is one person, one incident and in this case, one church, to cause a ripple effect whereby people start digging up their long buried axes of hate and discrimination, and there goes generations of racial progress, down in bloody flames.

It's the Human Condition



Yer missing a bit Aeon. The friction in Yugoslavia was 3 way. It was Muslim vs Orthodox vs Roman Catholics.

The place was the antagonistic confluence of those three major bodies on more than one occasion in history. Milosevic (Orthodox Serbian) and Tudjman (Croatian Catholic) agreed to bury their own differences for both to concentrate on ousting the muslims from all parts of the former Yugoslavia.

[æonpax]

Yer missing a bit Aeon. The friction in Yugoslavia was 3 way. It was Muslim vs Orthodox vs Roman Catholics. The place was the antagonistic confluence of those three major bodies on more than one occasion in history. Milosevic (Orthodox Serbian) and Tudjman (Croatian Catholic) agreed to bury their own differences for both to concentrate on ousting the muslims from all parts of the former Yugoslavia.

Read the book.....
`

[Hephaestion]

At one time books were written about the moon being made of green cheese.

Do not forget that Croatia was ethnically cleansed of Serbians and vice versa, relatively politely as the fighting came to a halt quickly, but ethnically cleansed all the same. The march of civilians out of Croatia was "impressive"

After Slovenia had been recognised by its Germanic brothers (Germany - which precipitated the civil war - Robin Cook MP warned of this) Tudjman and Molosevic eventually agreed to put plan A into action i.e. bury the hatchet and divide the remainder of Yugoslavia between them. Tudjman died but he was just as culpable as Milosevic may have been. Milosevic was openly Communist and therefore attracted the venom.

When it comes to reporting the propaganda of war(s) one brings to mind the TV sitcom "Drop the Dead Donkey" and the infamous teddy bear.

.

[darkeyes]

At one time books were written about the moon being made of green cheese.

Do not forget that Croatia was ethnically cleansed of Serbians and vice versa, relatively politely as the fighting came to a halt quickly, but ethnically cleansed all the same. The march of civilians out of Croatia was "impressive"

After Slovenia had been recognised by its Germanic brothers (Germany - which precipitated the civil war - Robin Cook MP warned of this) Tudjman and Molosevic eventually agreed to put plan A into action i.e. bury the hatchet and divide the remainder of Yugoslavia between them. Tudjman died but he was just as culpable as Milosevic may have been. Milosevic was openly Communist and therefore attracted the venom.

When it comes to reporting the propaganda of war(s) one brings to mind the TV sitcom "Drop the Dead Donkey" and the infamous teddy bear.

.

Robin did indeed warn of it.. and Angela Merkel the present German Chancellor I believe warned Helmut Kohl not to be so stupid cos she too saw what would come..and promptly blotted her copybook with him..(something I only read in the Guardian a week or so ago) so he wasnt alone. But no one cared enough and so began the events of a tragedy for which few, even outside of the Balkans can escape blame..

I loved "Drop the Dead Donkey" though I doubt æon or very many across the ocean will know what u r havering on about.. after one particularly hilarious episode I went to bed and fantasised about me and Joy together locked in the ladies loo overnight... actually I had similar experiences most weeks about Joy and me from about the age of 14.. hysterically funny miserable cow that she wos..but gorge an mizzy.. Stopped watching when she left.. the satire had died by then anyway and so had no other reason to watch it..

[Hephaestion]

1) Haydn Gwynne - Mmmmmm!

2) 'Gegs' (crossword 4 letter answer for scrambled eggs: "g, somthing, somthing, s")

.

[æonpax]

At one time books were written about the moon being made of green cheese.

Do not forget that Croatia was ethnically cleansed of Serbians and vice versa, relatively politely as the fighting came to a halt quickly, but ethnically cleansed all the same. The march of civilians out of Croatia was "impressive"

After Slovenia had been recognised by its Germanic brothers (Germany - which precipitated the civil war - Robin Cook MP warned of this) Tudjman and Molosevic eventually agreed to put plan A into action i.e. bury the hatchet and divide the remainder of Yugoslavia between them. Tudjman died but he was just as culpable as Milosevic may have been. Milosevic was openly Communist and therefore attracted the venom.

When it comes to reporting the propaganda of war(s) one brings to mind the TV sitcom "Drop the Dead Donkey" and the infamous teddy bear.

Sir, with respect;

The book is partly a historical account from the eyes of those who see what happened in the Balkans (and Rwanda) as being no less than Genocide. But underneath that is a story about people being manipulated. It would seem that as desperation to survive gets higher, so would be the desire to lash out at those whom are perceived to be the cause, increases.

In the context of this OP, the black-white clash in the US, in my humble opinion, is being manipulated by people who want to divide a population, just like Milošević did to the people of Serbia. They prey upon cultural prejudices.

While your point in the historical accuracy of my summation may have merit, the essence of what my analogy is saying I think is quite clear: People can and do respond to prejudice...and in cases, violently.

[void()]

Void wanders by, shrugs recalling once having a black Muslim lover who lived up to the words gentle man. He ponders being a humanist incapable of seeing people as unequal, wanders on trying to suess out if it is Marry Penny Or Thomas Dirk Day, shrugs and decides on going with Joesy Mingo Day.

[darkeyes]

Sir, with respect....

......While your point in the historical accuracy of my summation may have merit, the essence of what my analogy is saying I think is quite clear: People can and do respond to prejudice...and in cases, violently.

Sir??? Heph?? Omg... how can lil ole me hav been so disrespectful:eek:...soz Heph.. sir.. ur honour..m' lud.. ur highness.. will b much more respectful in future..;)

... an æon, 'bout the last point.. teachin grannie (an' certainly not the luffly Hephaestion) 2 suck eggs wasnt really necessary, but it does no harm in keepin' peeps on ther toes as a lil reminder 2 those who might have let it slip their mind for a second....:)

[Hephaestion]

Aeon - I hate the term 'Sir' unless it is spelled 'Cur'.

Warmest regards and affection.

Heph.

[matutum]

So much for following in the footsteps of Jesus:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45499321/ns/us_news/#.TtgaQ9WwVGI'm sorry for bagging on you. You have just as much right as I do to comment on things. I apologize once again...

[dafydd]

They're not following in the footsteps of Jesus. Racism is inherently UN-Christian. Paul dealt with the issue of racism, among other issues, when it reared it's ugly head in Galatia. The Jews in the Galatian church felt themselves superior to the Gentile believers, as did the rich over the poor, the free men over the slaves, etc. Paul wrote, "for in Christ you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
These racists should be ashamed of themselves. They have no place in a Christian church.

all the depictions of Jesus are of a white man. is that accurate?
(genuinely asking not being flippant).
What 'race' was Jesus really?

[falcondfw]

Texas and Hawaii are to me the most racist states.When i posted a few questions on here I had one person say "can't someone block him""get him to shutup!"Apparently my questions about being bi and spreading std's and other disease's didn't sit well with this person.I should be blocked. I was mad about what was said but then realized this person making the comment was expressing what he really felt.He is entitled.And i do have the right to free speech....

Matutum,
That is unfair and inaccurate to paint Texans as racist and I personally take offense to it. Are there racists here? Of Course. Are there racists in Alaska? Of Course.
States are not racist, people are. People are individuals. We need to take them that way. I am sorry if you had bad experiences here and maybe the people you met were ignorant neanderthals, but it is also possible if you look hard enough, you will find what you seek.
Texas is a great place with an incredibly diverse culture. I was not born here, but have spent far more of my life here than in any other place. I love it here and all 3 of my sons are proud Native Texans.
There are idiots here. Like the idiots in Vader (near Beaumont) who dragged Robert Byrd chained behind their pickup. But there are idiots everywhere. We can't defeat their hate with more hate.
Open your mind and you will see that not every person in any one state hates. Take people individually and you might even find some you like.
Finally, you have the right to free speech. You have the right to put a lamp shade on your head and dance at the top of the Empire State building too. Freedoms come with responsibility. Your comment was irresponsible.

[æonpax]

all the depictions of Jesus are of a white man. is that accurate? (genuinely asking not being flippant). What 'race' was Jesus really?

I've read where the Prophet Jesus, was a dark skinned, Mediterranean. It's all the same to me, anyway.


http://i.imgur.com/SJoIS.jpg

[dafydd]

I've read where the Prophet Jesus, was a dark skinned, Mediterranean. It's all the same to me, anyway.


http://i.imgur.com/SJoIS.jpg

yeah i think this depiction is more accurate given his geographical location. I'm just thinking that it's strange that it's not a more common image in the Christian world church.

[falcondfw]

yeah i think this depiction is more accurate given his geographical location. I'm just thinking that it's strange that it's not a more common image in the Christian world church.

Dafydd,
Look at who pushed religions on the world during those times. The main pushers. The Roman Catholics. While not exactly Norweigian in appearance, they are much lighter skinned (for the most part), than the Israelis or other Middle Easterners.
Right or wrong (wrong, in my opinion), they wanted an image that would be accepted by the majority of their people, who were, at that time, Romans. So, they made HIS image to look more like them.
Just my :2cents:

[dafydd]

Dafydd,
Look at who pushed religions on the world during those times. The main pushers. The Roman Catholics. While not exactly Norweigian in appearance, they are much lighter skinned (for the most part), than the Israelis or other Middle Easterners.
Right or wrong (wrong, in my opinion), they wanted an image that would be accepted by the majority of their people, who were, at that time, Romans. So, they made HIS image to look more like them.
Just my :2cents:


i agree falcon. so in terms of reaction in the Christian church, how do u think people would react now if this image started to replace the 'whiter' Christ?

[falcondfw]

Honestly,
Some would be fine with it, as i believe it is more accurate (although some middle easterners I have known are as dark as in that drawing, most I know are lighter. Kind of halfway in between that drawing and us white anglo-saxons. lol).
Some would have problems with it "because it is not traditional", and because it represents change.
Some would have problems for other reasons (no need to go into those reasons here).
It is all individual. But I will say this. I think if the image of Jesus were changed to that drawing by the Church, it would tell us a lot about where we stand as a society, just by people's reactions. lol.(Hopefully, it would say we have come a long way)

[dafydd]

I seem to remember a massive outcry when Madonna featured a black Jesus in her 'Like A Prayer' video. Kind of a litmus test I think. (Though that was over 20 years ago.) maybe people are more relaxed now.


Honestly,
Some would be fine with it, as i believe it is more accurate (although some middle easterners I have known are as dark as in that drawing, most I know are lighter. Kind of halfway in between that drawing and us white anglo-saxons. lol).
Some would have problems with it "because it is not traditional", and because it represents change.
Some would have problems for other reasons (no need to go into those reasons here).
It is all individual. But I will say this. I think if the image of Jesus were changed to that drawing by the Church, it would tell us a lot about where we stand as a society, just by people's reactions. lol.(Hopefully, it would say we have come a long way)

[falcondfw]

I don't remember that one (not saying it didn't happen. It seems like something she would do. I just don't remember it.).
However, in that case, you have to consider the source. Madonna did a lot of things for shock value. My bet is the outcry was more against the source and the intent than the fact Jesus was middle eastern or black in the picture.
It would have a different meaning entirely if the Pope came out and said "This is the way Jesus really looked, if we are to be historically and culturally accurate."

[Hephaestion]

Good Grief!

[darkeyes]

Good Grief!

Quite.:)

[Pasadenacpl2]

http://www.dogma-movie.com/about/images/rock.jpg


White folks only want to hear the good shit: life eternal, a place in God's Heaven. But as soon as they hear they're getting this good shit from a black Jesus, they freak. And that, my friends, is called hypocrisy. A black man can steal your stereo, but he can't be your Savior

[Darkside2009]

Well, I suppose this must be progress of a sort. At least his existence is actually being acknowledged now.

His teachings are what is important, not the colour of his skin. Read what he said and see if you agree or disagree with him. :)

[falcondfw]

Hephaestion,
I have no idea what your "Good Grief!" meant.
My observations were only those. Intent is important. Madonna often did things for shock value. Thus, her portrait of Jesus would be thought by many to be merely another step along the shock value line and not serious.
However, if the pope came out and said "Jesus was dark skinned", it would have a totally different meaning and it would be taken seriously.
Pasadena,
I disagree with that. For some individuals, that is surely true, but a lot more have open minds these days than did 30 or 50 years ago.
Darkside,
Best point on the entire thread.

[41 6c 79]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i47HoiM0Au8
Just wrong

[Pasadenacpl2]

Pasadena,
I disagree with that. For some individuals, that is surely true, but a lot more have open minds these days than did 30 or 50 years ago.


It was a quote from Dogma. It was funny, and fit the topic.

Pasa

[niftyshellshock]

Texas and Hawaii are to me the most racist states.When i posted a few questions on here I had one person say "can't someone block him""get him to shutup!"Apparently my questions about being bi and spreading std's and other disease's didn't sit well with this person.I should be blocked. I was mad about what was said but then realized this person making the comment was expressing what he really felt.He is entitled.And i do have the right to free speech....

Nice, most racist states. Do you have something other than purely anecdotal evidence to base your assumptions on?

I would probably be inclined to believe Hawai'i is, but I've never been there and have only heard stories about how whites are treated there.
There's a lot more to Texas than whatever backwoods Texas town you may have visited or heard about on the news.
Is there racism in Texas? Yeah, but it's contained in very small pockets of the state no one gives a crap about. Plus, Texas being where it's at has a substantial amount of people from all sorts of races. Want racism? You might want to check out a few of the diehard confederate-remembering parts of Mississippi, or the neo-nazi enclaves in Idaho and Washington.

Oh, and as far as discrimination goes, guess which state has the first openly gay mayor of a major U.S. city?

Here's a hint, it ain't California or New York and it once was a country all of it's own ;)

[niftyshellshock]

Also, relevant:

Jesus was Mexican. Was poor, walked around in sandals all the time, hung out with people that weren't liked, lived with his parents till he was thirty, and his mom thought He was God.

[æonpax]

yeah i think this depiction is more accurate given his geographical location. I'm just thinking that it's strange that it's not a more common image in the Christian world church.

In Michelangelo's painting on the Sistine Chapel, God is portrayed as a white male. No doubt, that's because the way he saw it, however, that's not canon. I often refer to a Supreme Divinity as "She" and in the case of "Shakti", She would be Indian (India) or "Magna Mater", who is beyond race.

[falcondfw]

It was a quote from Dogma. It was funny, and fit the topic.

Pasa

Ah. ok. I haven't read Dogma, which is why I didn't understand the reference. Thanks for the clarity.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Ah. ok. I haven't read Dogma, which is why I didn't understand the reference. Thanks for the clarity.

It's a movie by Kevin Smith. The character speaking is Rufus, played by Chris Rock (the guy in the picture on my post). I highly reccomend Dogma. It takes on religion in a very bold way. I'd put it as the best of the Kevin Smith "View Askew" movies (Clerks etc..)

Pasa

[Diva667]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9URI_rabvcI/TYPFIHLFGbI/AAAAAAAABAg/UaHE58_EBbQ/s400/Avenue%2BQ%2B2.jpg
http://youtu.be/x9CSnlb-ymA

Princeton:
Say, Kate, can I ask you a question?

Kate Monster:
Sure!

Princeton:
Well, you know Trekkie Monster upstairs?

Kate Monster:
Uh huh.

Princeton:
Well, he's Trekkie Monster, and you're Kate Monster.

Kate Monster:
Right.

Princeton:
You're both Monsters.

Kate Monster:
Yeah.

Princeton:
Are you two related?

Kate Monster:
What?! Princeton, I'm surprised at you! I find that racist!

Princeton:
Oh, well, I'm sorry! I was just asking!

Kate Monster:
Well, it's a touchy subject.
No, not all Monsters are related.
What are you trying say, huh?
That we all look the same to you?
Huh, huh, huh?

Princeton:
No, no, no, not at all. I'm sorry,
I guess that was a little racist.

Kate Monster:
I should say so. You should be much more
careful when you're talking about the
sensitive subject of race.

Princeton:
Well, look who's talking!

Kate Monster:
What do you mean?

Princeton:
What about that special Monster School you told me about?

Kate Monster:
What about it?

Princeton:
Could someone like me go there?

Kate Monster:
No, we don't want people like you-

Princeton:
You see?!

You're a little bit racist.

Kate Monster:
Well, you're a little bit too.

Princeton:
I guess we're both a little bit racist.

Kate Monster:
Admitting it is not an easy thing to do...

Princeton:
But I guess it's true.

Kate Monster:
Between me and you,
I think

Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing hate crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really color blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on race.

Princeton:
Now not big judgments, like who to hire
or who to buy a newspaper from -

Kate Monster:
No!

Princeton:
No, just little judgments like thinking that Mexican
busboys should learn to speak goddamn English!

Kate Monster:
Right!

Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Today.
So, everyone's a little bit racist
Okay!
Ethinic jokes might be uncouth,
But you laugh because
They're based on truth.
Don't take them as
Personal attacks.
Everyone enjoys them -
So relax!

Princeton:
All right, stop me if you've heard this one.

Kate Monster:
Okay!

Princeton:
There's a plan going down and there's only
one paracute. And there's a rabbi, a priest...

Kate Monster:
And a black guy!

Gary Coleman:
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Kate?

Kate Monster:
Uh...

Gary Coleman:
You were telling a black joke!

Princeton:
Well, sure, Gary, but lots of people tell black jokes.

Gary Coleman:
I don't.

Princeton:
Well, of course you don't - you're black!
But I bet you tell Polack jokes, right?

Gary Coleman:
Well, sure I do. Those stupid Polacks!

Princeton:
Now, don't you think that's a little racist?

Gary Coleman:
Well, damn, I guess you're right.

Kate Monster:
You're a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
Well, you're a little bit too.

Princeton:
We're all a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
I think that I would
Have to agree with you.

Princeton/Kate Monster:
We're glad you do.

Gary Coleman:
It's sad but true!
Everyone's a little bit racist -

All right!

Kate Monster:
All right!

Princeton:
All right!

Gary Coleman:
All right!
Bigotry has never been
Exclusively white

All:
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
Even though we all know
That it's wrong,
Maybe it would help us
Get along.

Princeton:
Oh, Christ do I feel good.

Gary Coleman:
Now there was a fine upstanding black man!

Princeton:
Who?

Gary Coleman:
Jesus Christ.

Kate Monster:
But, Gary, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, Jesus was black.

Kate Monster:
No, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, I'm pretty sure that Jesus was black-

Princeton:
Guys, guys...Jesus was Jewish!

Brian:
Hey guys, what are you laughing about?

Gary Coleman:
Racism!

Brian:
Cool.

Christmas Eve:
BRIAN! Come back here!
You take out lecycuraburs!

Princeton:
What's that mean?

Brian:
Um, recyclables.
Hey, don't laugh at her!
How many languages do you speak?

Kate Monster:
Oh, come off it, Brian!
Everyone's a little bit racist.

Brian:
I'm not!

Princeton:
Oh no?

Brian:
Nope!

How many Oriental wives
Have you got?

Christmas Eve:
What? Brian!

Princeton:
Brian, buddy, where you been?
The term is Asian-American!

Christmas Eve:
I know you are no
Intending to be
But calling me Oriental -
Offensive to me!

Brian:
I'm sorry, honey, I love you.

Christmas Eve:
And I love you.

Brian:
But you're racist, too.

Christmas Eve:
Yes, I know.
The Jews have all
The money
And the whites have all
The power.
And I'm always in taxi-cab
With driver who no shower!

Princeton:
Me too!

Kate Monster:
Me too!

Gary Coleman:
I can't even get a taxi!

All:
Everyone's a little bit racist
It's true.
But everyone is just about
As racist as you!
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!

Christmas Eve:
Evlyone's a ritter bit lacist!

[dafydd]

Well, I suppose this must be progress of a sort. At least his existence is actually being acknowledged now.

His teachings are what is important, not the colour of his skin. Read what he said and see if you agree or disagree with him. :)

Darkside very true. But not sure if any of the thread writers were debating that. I was trying to examine whether or not we can say the church is inherently racist given the possibility of asking modern day western Christians to accept the more historically accurate image of a dark skinned Jesus. More importantly to consider the reasons why that image was changed to a white Jesus. I don't believe Christians are inherently racist, but racism seems to me, to have had some hand in the religion's (all religion?) dispersal. That's also not to mention one theory among non-Christian historians that Jesus' father was likely to have been a Roman soldier and that he was conceived through a rape. That is an interesting theory...

[jamieknyc]

Even Christian mythology admits that Jesus was a Jew. So he looked like me, not like any of the colors or races the rest of you are claiming.

[dafydd]

Even Christian mythology admits that Jesus was a Jew. So he looked like me, not like any of the colors or races the rest of you are claiming.

well he would have looked like Israeli jews did then. (or not if u believe the roman father theory) My blood is also jewish and I don't look Israeli.

[falcondfw]

Judaism is the religion. Israeli is the nationality. Most Israeli's I know are more mediterranean looking than anything else (which is kinda good since they live there. lol).

[dafydd]

Judaism is the religion. Israeli is the nationality. Most Israeli's I know are more mediterranean looking than anything else (which is kinda good since they live there. lol).

yep i know that. I mentioned Israel because i was assuming you were born bred American not Mediterranean origin so I didn't understand ur point about comparing ur look to his. thats what i meant by saying my blood is Jewish but doesn't mean i look like someone from Israel.
Wasn't Jesus said to be from the area we know as Israel?

[Darkside2009]

It might be instructive, for some of you, if you read the attitude Jesus had towards prejudice in John Chapter 4 of the Bible. He ignored the historical and cultural norms of his time and society.

[darkeyes]

Well, I suppose this must be progress of a sort. At least his existence is actually being acknowledged now.

His teachings are what is important, not the colour of his skin. Read what he said and see if you agree or disagree with him. :)

Have never denied that he existed Darkside babes, nor care I if he was black brown green or blue..... only questioned what peeps tell me he is supposed b..;)

...and have read what he is supposed to have said... agree with quite a lot too..:)

[jamieknyc]

well he would have looked like Israeli jews did then. (or not if u believe the roman father theory) My blood is also jewish and I don't look Israeli.
Jesus would not have looked like what you conceive of as Israeli, because if you assume that the biographical information given in the Gospels has any historical value, Jesus was almost cetainly what today would be called an Ashkenazic Jew, while the majority of Israelis are of Mizrachi background.

[Hephaestion]

When I was young there were a lot of ex-sevicemen kicking around. Peculiar thing was that having served in the sunnier parts of the world, like the home grown farmers, they all sported a bit of a tan. Tan? a leatherish brown, very similar to some of the 'battlers' that I came across in Oz. Same sort of colour that most of us call healthy and so often portrayed on films. When the sun is not avaliable then chemical orange seems to hold alure.

NB so called Anglo-Saxons do not have the monopoly on the term 'white' as if that could be defined anyway when so much variation is natural. Then there is the certainty of peoples moving around for a variety of reasons and inter-marrying - not a new thing.

Which brings us back to the thread, which was about the stupidity of a purported Christian church in the USA not wanting to marry a light skinned person with a dark skinned person.

Who gives a fig what colour JC was although as depicted in the thread source, skin colour may well be a prominent concern in personal lives.

The lady below may well cause problems for the irrational classificators amongst us. She was Afghani and by consensus, one of the most beautiful faces recorded in National Geographic magazine.

[dafydd]

Jesus would not have looked like what you conceive of as Israeli, because if you assume that the biographical information given in the Gospels has any historical value, Jesus was almost cetainly what today would be called an Ashkenazic Jew, while the majority of Israelis are of Mizrachi background.


please re-read my comment *carefully* before responding. total misread of what I said. getting tired of that. I was talking about Israel *then*. To do this, I used the word *then*. thanx