Is It Better To Give, than Receive?

[æonpax]

Item – When I was in high school, there was an incident where a guy was caught giving several jocks, BJ’s. The word spread like wildfire and divided the school into opposing viewpoints. While the guy “giving” head was so mercilessly harassed, that him and his family moved, I am happy to say that his gf stood by him….and are now married.


At issue with the guys, was “receiving” a BJ does not make one gay or queer, but giving one does. I just don’t see it that way. I also have heard guys say that wanting or getting a BJ is gay. If a male gets an erection at the thought of another male giving him head, it seems to me, that they are, at the very least, bisexual.

Are supposed heterosexual males who like getting fellatio from another male, really hetero? Or more like latent Bisexuals?

[littlerayofsunshine]

I guess it just depends on who's the fly on the wall.

There are straight men who think the cliche "If the balls don't touch, it ain't gay" really applies in life. Those looking in would really only apply the label they best see fit.

Both ends of the cock, in my book, Would be culpable.

Have you ever checked out the craigslist ads from any metropolitan area, in the men seeking men section? My husband and I read them like they are a car accident.

[Realist]

Yep, I've heard that all of my life.

Growing up, I thought it was an odd belief. Many have convinced themselves that enjoying a BJ was totally OK, if they didn't reciprocate.

You know, a person can convince themselves of about anything, if they really work at it.

But, I believe as you mentioned above...... if a guy can get you aroused and make you cum, there HAS to be some degree of sexual attraction, there.

I never felt it was polite, or fair, to receive an orgasm from someone sucking you off (no matter what gender you are) without, at least, offering to reciprocate!

That's my take on the subject.

[mboobs]

my experience is that most blokes are bi until they blow. then theyre straight. that goes for a lot of blokes who also like to fuck others. i think with some blokes, if the balls are full a polo mint will do. [like a lifesaver for you yanks]

[Long Duck Dong]

I look at it from the point of view, that if you have a desire to have a bj from or give a bj to another guy, that can be the defining factor.....

the reason I say that, is there is a technicality involved... if you receive a bj from somebody that you do not know, is a guy ( trans person / lady boy etc ) , does it still make you gay / bi ?
and one of the other technicalities is if you are a young teen and experiment.. does that decide your sexuality ???

the issue with sexuality is we define it by actions, but sexuality is defined by desire and attraction as that is the majority aspect of a sexuality, not the sex....as many of us are attracted to and desire people long being we are sexually active......

part of the overall issue is we apply our own desires, wants and needs to a issue, and define it that way,....

we have A, B and C, all males and using oral sex as the action

A recieves oral sex from males, has no interest in any sexual contact with males, but the feeling of a male doing the oral sex is more enjoyable than any female that has given him oral sex.... and he enjoys oral sex....

B likes to give oral sex to a cock, be it a man, a pre op MtF, a Ladybody, but the idea of sucking on a males cock doesn't appeal to him....

C likes to give and recieve oral sex, as a oral fetish and its only a cock that arouses him, nothing else.......

does the interest in a body part, define sexuality.... or are we defining the sexuality cos of whom the body part is attached to ?

before anybody rushes in to answer.... one last technicality.... if a male likes to suck on the cock of a intersex female ( natural born female ) does that make him gay or bisexual ?

[tomishere]

I agree that a male teen may just be experimenting, and not be bi or gay. But the idea the receiver is the only one who is gay or bi cracks me up. Many guys think if there on top they are straight, I've been both and my sexuality was the same when I was top or bottom. I think a lot of males have such deep denial of there sexuality, they make a million rationalizations for their desires. For a male to come to terms with this is very ego threatening, can send his anxiety through the roof.

[æonpax]

I guess it just depends on who's the fly on the wall.
There are straight men who think the cliche "If the balls don't touch, it ain't gay" really applies in life. Those looking in would really only apply the label they best see fit.
Both ends of the cock, in my book, Would be culpable.
Have you ever checked out the craigslist ads from any metropolitan area, in the men seeking men section? My husband and I read them like they are a car accident.

I watched a few "Soprano" shows on re-runs and these was one episode where they discussed this topic, I mean about a man in jail getting a blow job from another man but agreeing that it wasn't a homosexual act.

To me this seems to be a cop-out...a heterosexual device used to rationalize away one's own homosexual or specifically, bisexual proclivities. As for "craiglist", I don't usually look in those sections but perhaps should, at least for the entertainment value.

[æonpax]

Yep, I've heard that all of my life.
Growing up, I thought it was an odd belief. Many have convinced themselves that enjoying a BJ was totally OK, if they didn't reciprocate.
You know, a person can convince themselves of about anything, if they really work at it.
But, I believe as you mentioned above...... if a guy can get you aroused and make you cum, there HAS to be some degree of sexual attraction, there.
I never felt it was polite, or fair, to receive an orgasm from someone sucking you off (no matter what gender you are) without, at least, offering to reciprocate!
That's my take on the subject.

With me, at the time, I just thought it was very unfair. The jocks got a free pass, justifying what they did as a "guy thing" which heterosexual males did and that's not just the case. The guy "giving" was harassed but the athletes part was overlooked. Sort of like the Penn State thing in a way.

This also brought to light the passive nature at which many men seems to dismiss their own inherent sexual nature becuase of the still present, stigma attached to it.

[Long Duck Dong]

I watched a few "Soprano" shows on re-runs and these was one episode where they discussed this topic, I mean about a man in jail getting a blow job from another man but agreeing that it wasn't a homosexual act.

To me this seems to be a cop-out...a heterosexual device used to rationalize away one's own homosexual or specifically, bisexual proclivities. As for "craiglist", I don't usually look in those sections but perhaps should, at least for the entertainment value.

prison has a hierarchy... and prison sex can be a form of domination and humilation... hence the term, " you ain't a man, you're a bitch * ... the same behievour has been seen in male dogs, as a form of showing dominance and submission in a pack

it can also be a need and desire for affection and other contact between some people and that is normally where you are more likely to find people with a homosexual / bisexual nature.... where as heterosexual * alpha males * will use sex as a ultimate form of humiliation of a inmate and showing them * who is the boss *.... and outside of that, they do not normally engage in any sexual contact with other inmates as it will be seen as gay desire.....

hence males can be made to suck cocks and take it in the ass, but you generally do not see * alpha males * in prisons, sucking cocks or being somebodies bitch...... and its not seen as homosexual behievour cos its being used as a weapon, a tool and not a way of getting sexual release.....

take a group of purely 100% heterosexual males, stick them on a island for 20 years and you will see the type of behievour emerge......

even in the forums here people talk about the effect on them due to lack of sexual release, while others have no issues..... and that has a lot to do with sex drive and testosterone levels in males

I know about this as I did time in a max security prison in nz, which meant total lock down and there was no possible body contact with any other prisoners, but plenty of time to talk in the block, but there was often talk about who was going to * answer the phone * ( be forced to suck a cock ) or get some sense drilled into them ( anal sex ) for what ever reason..... and most times it was people that hurt kids, that it referred to... but that was always in minimum and medium security, those type of * death sentence * prisoners were often isolated from rest of the prisoners for their own safety ( read that as stopping them getting the mother of all beatings )

lifers in max, will tell you that the desire for sex often dies if there is nothing to sexually stimulate them... and lets be honest, a life time in prison means that you are not getting any for a very long time so unless you wanna get with another male, you are going to go without......
that doesn't mean that they are bi or gay, but that they will use any outlet that is there cos there is no other alternative, cos its not like you can get a hooker for the night in your cell

[Long Duck Dong]

With me, at the time, I just thought it was very unfair. The jocks got a free pass, justifying what they did as a "guy thing" which heterosexual males did and that's not just the case. The guy "giving" was harassed but the athletes part was overlooked. Sort of like the Penn State thing in a way.

This also brought to light the passive nature at which many men seems to dismiss their own inherent sexual nature becuase of the still present, stigma attached to it.

think of it from the point of view of a male in some respects.....

any male that sucks a cock is a fag, but any male that can make somebody get on their knees and suck another guys cock, is definately a man....

doesn't make it right or acceptable, but it gives a insight into the way some people think...... but you catch the jock and the nerd in a embrace, kissing, you would have a totally different reaction from people

it all comes down to the alpha male aspect....

[wetnude]

I have read the replies to this post with interest. The question was it better to give or receive. Me ...I love getting my cock sucked dry and don't care whose mouth is giving me the pleasure. Me...I have given a few blow jobs and enjoyed the experience. I would define myself as bi curious,as I thoroughly love going balls deep into my wife.

[jimdawg]

To be honest, for me it isn't "gay" cause I don't care. I was called it my whole youth not because I was bi but because I was simply socially awkward. Thus if its gay, who cares? The fact you enjoy something will not change who you are.

[Rhevan]

I do subscribe to the theory that each person defines their own sexuality. If a man doesn't feel he's bisexual, he isn't. A lot of times a heterosexual man getting fellatio from another man is more an issue of dominance not a sexual aspect. Then again I'm sure there are plenty of heterosexual men who wouldn't care what sucked their cock as long as someone or something did:tongue: I base this on some of the group sex sessions I have been involved in, many times you don't know whose tongue is where you only know it feels good. Does it make a straight woman bi if she enjoys getting cunnilingus from a female? In my opinion, no, it makes her someone who appreciates the sensuousness of group activities. To borrow a familiar saying "what happens in group, stays in group".

[want2havefun]

Guys just like getting BJs, it isnt that difficult. Some will accept such from the
same gender under certain circumstances. That in and of itself doesnt make the receiver gay or bi. Period. Its far more complex than that.

These attempts at labels fail to take in the scope and fluid nature of human sexuality.

[tenni]

In what I think is the context of this issue, I think that it depends upon a couple of things. If the guy self identifies as bisexual or gay because he likes to give oral that is one position. If someone else uses the fact that a man has received a bj from another man to demean that man as gay or bisexual that is a completely different matter.

As someone has stated almost all men enjoy a bj. Not all men enjoy giving a bj. If you don't enjoy giving a bj but enjoy men giving you bj over women...well..maybe you need to rethink things about being straight.

[æonpax]

prison has a hierarchy... and prison sex can be a form of domination and humilation... hence the term, " you ain't a man, you're a bitch * ... the same behievour has been seen in male dogs, as a form of showing dominance and submission in a pack...<snipped for brevity>

Interesting but it isn’t as widespread, at least here in the US, as the entertainment media leads people to believe, such as in the anecdotal Soprano example I gave, to wit:




“In 2001, Human Rights Watch estimated that at least 140,000 inmates had been raped while incarcerated. [1] and there is a significant variation in the rates of prison rape by race…” http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html

Contrast this with a US Dept of Justice study which claims;




“2004 found a prevalence rate of 1.91% with a 95% confidence interval between 1.37–2.46%.[2] Applying that 1.91% figure to the nearly 2.3 million inmates currently incarcerated in prisons and jails in the United States[3] suggests that raped inmates number 43,800.” https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=234861

If one is talking about male rape or forced sex, even at the high of 3%, the aggregate is too small to make any general assumptions. Missing from either report was “consensual” sex between imprisoned men, which is the point I’m making.

Now historically, I’ve heard that men gone for long periods of time at sea may have had sex with other men, giving rise to the myths around “soap on a rope”, cabin boys and “saltpeter”, (which will actually kill a person) but have not found any substantial information about this….not that I’ve actually looked. But these are all examples of male sex, “in extremis” which is not what I’m looking at.

[sammie19]

It is much better to give, but far nicer to receive.:)

[æonpax]

To be honest, for me it isn't "gay" cause I don't care. I was called it my whole youth not because I was bi but because I was simply socially awkward. Thus if its gay, who cares? The fact you enjoy something will not change who you are.


In a perfect world, I would agree but this is not the case. What I am looking at the the present society looks at it, as opposed to an individuals perspective. In the case I mentioned at the start, there were a number of male students who said they would never allow another male to give them "head" and see such behavior as being related to homosexuality.

The guy who was giving was open about his orientation and paid a cruel price for it, while the guys receiving just blew it off. It seems to me there is duplicity at play here. Females, can get away with it without any reproach, not so with males, it would appear.

[tenni]

"What I am looking at the the present society looks at it, as opposed to an individuals perspective."

Well, you may not quite be able get a clear answer in that situation either. I would tend to guess that some societies see it as both the giver and receiver are gay.

Have you heard about Mediteranean Bisexuality? I may not have the correct term (Mediteranean) but it is connected to male latin culture in Mediteranean and as an extension many South American societies. The man who receives a bj is considered straight while the giver is considered gay. It may not be logical from other cultural perspectives but apparently this is a common belief in male latins.

It may not be fair. There is some evidence that male bisexuals experience more societal discrimination than female bisexuals. That is not fair either. Life is not fair as my father use to say.:rotate:

[void()]

Double standards have continually existed within humanity, probably always will. People create a standard to be inclusive of homogeneous ideals, traits, qualities. This also incurs creation of exclusiveness based upon the same, hence a secondary standard. Ultimately it all recurses back to a simple argument of 'us' or 'them'. Frankly, tired of such a love destroying tactic.

While life is not fair, that is the way it is, one may accept it without liking it. And no, this does not imply those whom dislike it are babes or pathetic. All it says is, "some people do not like the status quo". Some of those people try living beyond it. Not always easy but worth it. Tired of this same debate popping up on the forum too. It is of the type which never really concludes as opinions vary and one cannot argue opinion.

Of course, that in and of itself is merely an opinion as well. Nothing further to say.

[12voltman59]

I agree that a male teen may just be experimenting, and not be bi or gay. But the idea the receiver is the only one who is gay or bi cracks me up. Many guys think if there on top they are straight, I've been both and my sexuality was the same when I was top or bottom. I think a lot of males have such deep denial of there sexuality, they make a million rationalizations for their desires. For a male to come to terms with this is very ego threatening, can send his anxiety through the roof.


I do agree that these guys who rationalize that if they only get blown by or are even fucking other guys--then they are still totally straight--which is really a big crock-----but talking about people making rationalizations----one of the best scenes from the movie "The Big Chill" was when the Jeff Goldblum character was talking about the ways in which people can rationalize so many things and said something along the lines of "I bet you can go a week without having sex but cannot go a day without making at least one rationalization."

It really is amazing the bullshit we can sell to ourselves let alone "buy" from others!!!

Here is a very short clip I found on YouTube from the longer scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqc1_v2Nj70

[æonpax]

"What I am looking at the the present society looks at it, as opposed to an individuals perspective."

Well, you may not quite be able get a clear answer in that situation either. I would tend to guess that some societies see it as both the giver and receiver are gay.

Have you heard about Mediteranean Bisexuality? I may not have the correct term (Mediteranean) but it is connected to male latin culture in Mediteranean and as an extension many South American societies. The man who receives a bj is considered straight while the giver is considered gay. It may not be logical from other cultural perspectives but apparently this is a common belief in male latins.

It may not be fair. There is some evidence that male bisexuals experience more societal discrimination than female bisexuals. That is not fair either. Life is not fair as my father use to say.:rotate:


Your point is well taken. Let me put it to you this way, since there are no hard, fast rules or guidelines on sexuality, and even the academics (psychologists) differ on this, in your own opinion,

Does a male receiving a BJ indicate that person has homosexual tendencies?

I ask because I have not seen any consensus on this. My opinion is that it does. Many men consider it abhorrent to accept an BJ from another man. If you (or anyone) were to conduct a random poll of men, asking them if they would want to get a BJ from another male, what do you think the results would be?

Men can feel free in an environment like this forum, to be upfront about it, not so in real life.

[Long Duck Dong]

ok aeon, there is a reason why its hard to find the stats you want..... and a lot of it has to do with opposition to prisoners having access to condoms for safer sex in prison and the other main reason is that most people in prison will not admit to be a bitch, as its a form of narking and thats never safe in prison.... or that their GF's, family and friends will find out.....

stop looking for official stats cos you will never find them... try looking for other avenues of info such as the groups that work within the prison system and push for things like condoms in prisons, they have stats that you will never find on official sites and channels... and that has a lot to do with not revealing the truth about prison life
bear in mind they are not officially endorsed studies or accepted as official stats cos it would reveal a truth about prison life that many do not want to acknowledge or accept, happens behind bars.....

in regards to the condoms in prisons issue, there was a lot of opposition to condoms in prisons cos it would encourage people to have homosexual sex...... something that amused the hell out of me cos its like saying that if you put condoms in high schools, more students will have sex..... yet in a day and age of high pregnancy rates and STD's you would think that safer sex is the lesser of two evils for some people, but some people are so brain dead, they think that its better to deny people the chance to have safe sex rather than accept that homosexual sex is happening in prisons anyway.....

do a youtube search for a documentary by msnbc about sex in male prisons.... its real prisoners talking about prison life and sex

[tenni]

Your point is well taken. Let me put it to you this way, since there are no hard, fast rules or guidelines on sexuality, and even the academics (psychologists) differ on this, in your own opinion,

Does a male receiving a BJ indicate that person has homosexual tendencies?

I ask because I have not seen any consensus on this. My opinion is that it does. Many men consider it abhorrent to accept an BJ from another man. If you (or anyone) were to conduct a random poll of men, asking them if they would want to get a BJ from another male, what do you think the results would be?

Men can feel free in an environment like this forum, to be upfront about it, not so in real life.

You ask interesting but difficult questions to answer. In part, it is as you state that men do not openly discuss bj other than getting and wanting one from a woman. What is really going on in their minds in some cases is a kind of secret penis worship..:tong: How many men think that is difficult.

I would agree that generally in my society a man getting a bj from another man and admitted it would get scorn and five step back from his straight friends. If they are young teen guys, they may be giving each othe bj and never admitting it. The homophobia and rejection/ taboo for showing male affection is reducing but your assumption is probably correct.

[bikiniman]

Back to the original question, Research suggests the giving activates the same areas of the brain as receiving. Assuming this holds true for sex than we get as much from pleasure from giving as receiving. I know I do.

[æonpax]

① You ask interesting but difficult questions to answer. In part, it is as you state that men do not openly discuss bj other than getting and wanting one from a woman. ② What is really going on in their minds in some cases is a kind of secret penis worship..:tong: How many men think that is difficult.
I would agree that generally in my society a man getting a bj from another man and admitted it would get scorn and five step back from his straight friends. If they are young teen guys, they may be giving each othe bj and never admitting it. The homophobia and rejection/ taboo for showing male affection is reducing but your assumption is probably correct.

① - If they were easy, I wouldn't ask them. :nrrdgrrl: I'm sort of more interested in the reasoning behind the answer than the answer itself. I've read some of the articles here in the other category. I agree with many, some, not so much...still, it spurs thought.

② - There's a term for that, Phallic Worship. (http://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/pw/pw.htm) A more modern definition, can be found here under Psychoanalysis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallus)

What I didn't say in my original post, is that this incident bitterly divided our senior class. The guy in question (giving) was open about his bisexuality which made him somewhat popular amongst the more open-minded members of our class.
`

[Gearbox]

I've read here that some bi men are only attracted to the cock, and don't care about the rest of the male body. Also that they don't want their cock touched by him.

It could be to do with that powerful phallic symbolism and not about sexuality as we commonly view sexuality?
For those jocks it might have been enough of a sexual thrill to have their cocks 'worshipped' as desirable, masculine and powerful by any gender?
I'm guessing they feel that way about their cocks when alone and up to mischief with them.lol

It's very hard to speak for 'straight' men though. For me, any sexual act I do with a man is done in the realms of my bisexuality. For them it might be in their heterosexuality?
My sexuality is both visual and sensually driven (dominantly sensual), I have had great sex with a few that I didn't find visually sexually attractive. I wouldn't have initiated it, but they did and I found them very sexually satisfying, maybe due to that? (both m&f).

The jocks may simply be dom hetero's.:rolleyes:
That opens up a can of worms when working out at what point m-m sex becomes un-hetero.:bigrin:

[dickhand]

I would suggest at this point in time that we could just say they were sexual beings . Labels suck (no pun intended . . . really) and are not fair in many cases anyway . Love the one you're with works for me !

[dafydd]

[QUOTE=æonpax;215722]

Item – When I was in high school, there was an incident where a guy was caught giving several jocks, BJ’s. The word spread like wildfire and divided the school into opposing viewpoints. While the guy “giving” head was so mercilessly harassed, that him and his family moved, I am happy to say that his gf stood by him….and are now married.

maybe they figured if everyone was getting a BJ theirs would be overlooked. u know kind of like the looting mentality.

[BiDaveDtown]

Yes you are correct Aeon these guys are bisexual or gay but in denial or even closeted about their sexuality.

If they were really straight or heterosexual they wouldn't be having sex or getting oral sex at all from other guys.

[dafydd]

Yes you are correct Aeon these guys are bisexual or gay but in denial or even closeted about their sexuality.

If they were really straight or heterosexual they wouldn't be having sex or getting oral sex at all from other guys.

free blow job without having to seduce a woman? don't have to be gay or bi to get sucked from a guy. it doesn't feel any different and if they close their eyes they can imagine what they want. rather than assume they are closeted, why not assume that they are just comfortable enough in their heterosexuality that they don't care about being called gay because of a NSA blowjob.

my mates (gay and straight) talk a lot about this: getting sucked is usually about getting off on someone enjoying ur 'maleness', and therefore affirming ur masculinity, which straight guys (all guys?) like. unless its the gender of face that is sucking you that is the main turn on.


d

[sammie19]

free blow job without having to seduce a woman? don't have to be gay or bi to get sucked from a guy. it doesn't feel any different and if they close their eyes they can imagine what they want. rather than assume they are closeted, why not assume that they are just comfortable enough in their heterosexuality that they don't care about being called gay because of a NSA blowjob.



d

Dafydd, I can't say for men, but there is a very different feeling for women when having a man as opposed to a woman go down on her, but that difference leads me to question part of your statement. Apart from gender differences in style and approach which are not uniform anyway, facial, lip and hand texture is different and even men's tongues seem to be somewhat thicker and have a very different feel on the clitoris, labia or when probing the entrance to the vagina. I am not saying men or women are better but to me they are different and feel different.

How much of the difference is real and how much is determined by the fact that usually we know the sex of the person down on us is open to question, but my limited but not non existent experience of group sex seems to confirm that in my mind making it a bit more than merely perception.

[dafydd]

Dafydd, I can't say for men, but there is a very different feeling for women when having a man as opposed to a woman go down on her, but that difference leads me to question part of your statement. Apart from gender differences in style and approach which are not uniform anyway, facial, lip and hand texture is different and even men's tongues seem to be somewhat thicker and have a very different feel on the clitoris, labia or when probing the entrance to the vagina. I am not saying men or women are better but to me they are different and feel different.

How much of the difference is real and how much is determined by the fact that usually we know the sex of the person down on us is open to question, but my limited but not non existent experience of group sex seems to confirm that in my mind making it a bit more than merely perception.

true true, i get what ur saying Sammie and agree mostly: but in this context its probably more simple.
(imagine a horny jock in the changing room toilet stall: he wants a quick BJ before class. He's not experiencing it that sensually, he just wants to shoot a load: he wants to cum, and there's someone whose gonna make it happen. Whether the mouth is male or female makes no difference.)
if it's school or college, chances are the young guy giving oral is clean shaven anyway. and if word gets around that he gives great head...even more reason to forget it's a guy for a second or two.

d

[darkeyes]

Dafydd, I can't say for men, but there is a very different feeling for women when having a man as opposed to a woman go down on her, but that difference leads me to question part of your statement. Apart from gender differences in style and approach which are not uniform anyway, facial, lip and hand texture is different and even men's tongues seem to be somewhat thicker and have a very different feel on the clitoris, labia or when probing the entrance to the vagina. I am not saying men or women are better but to me they are different and feel different.

How much of the difference is real and how much is determined by the fact that usually we know the sex of the person down on us is open to question, but my limited but not non existent experience of group sex seems to confirm that in my mind making it a bit more than merely perception.

Gone down on? Group sex? U:eek2:? It a surely cannot b... yas shaken me 2 the marrow me lil flaxen haired not quite as innocent an angelic as she looks sumwot tarty friend.. who wudda thought... Think me had best set ya big cuz onya 2 str8en ( sort.. as opposed 2 turnya str8.. kno yas not that innocent an angelic) ya out... am truly shocked..;) *giggles*:kiss::grouphug:

[Darkside2009]

Gone down on? Group sex? U:eek2:? It a surely cannot b... yas shaken me 2 the marrow me lil flaxen haired not quite as innocent an angelic as she looks sumwot tarty friend.. who wudda thought... Think me had best set ya big cuz onya 2 str8en ( sort.. as opposed 2 turnya str8.. kno yas not that innocent an angelic) ya out... am truly shocked..;) *giggles*:kiss::grouphug:

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Do you two know each other? Or has Sammie been keeping secrets? :rolleyes:

[Darkside2009]

true true, i get what ur saying Sammie and agree mostly: but in this context its probably more simple.
(imagine a horny jock in the changing room toilet stall: he wants a quick BJ before class. He's not experiencing it that sensually, he just wants to shoot a load: he wants to cum, and there's someone whose gonna make it happen. Whether the mouth is male or female makes no difference.)
if it's school or college, chances are the young guy giving oral is clean shaven anyway. and if word gets around that he gives great head...even more reason to forget it's a guy for a second or two.

d

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No, I wouldn't accept that premise for a second. Both participants would at the very least be bisexual, the situation you describe would be repulsive to heterosexuals.

I suspect that even in confined circumstances such as monasteries, prisons and nuclear submarines, masturbation would be the normal mode of release rather than anything else.

[BiDaveDtown]

free blow job without having to seduce a woman? don't have to be gay or bi to get sucked from a guy. it doesn't feel any different and if they close their eyes they can imagine what they want. rather than assume they are closeted, why not assume that they are just comfortable enough in their heterosexuality that they don't care about being called gay because of a NSA blowjob.

my mates (gay and straight) talk a lot about this: getting sucked is usually about getting off on someone enjoying ur 'maleness', and therefore affirming ur masculinity, which straight guys (all guys?) like. unless its the gender of face that is sucking you that is the main turn on.


d

What sort of dream world are you living in? Actual straight or heterosexual men don't have sex with other men the way you described ever, even when they're horny and women aren't around.

It's not like they're somehow in a prison, that they can't find a woman if they really want sex from a woman, and even then like Darkside said they're just going to masturbate and think about women instead of having sex with a guy unless they get raped; but rape is about power and control and dehumanizing someone.

You're one of those way too common bisexual men who thinks that because we're bisexual that somehow everyone else is, or that you somehow assume that because we like sex with men that all men are somehow going to look for male sexual partners. There are a lot of gay men out there who do this sort of projecting upon all men and it's just a pipe dream.

Not all men like getting oral sex. There are bisexual and even straight men who would rather give a woman oral sex than get it at all. I know a lot of gay men who are only into giving oral sex and don't want to get it at all.

When I'm with my wife I'd rather just give her oral sex and then have vaginal sex with her than get oral sex. A blowjob from a woman or man doesn't affirm my maleness or masculinity, and any guy who feels that getting oral sex from whoever somehow does this has issues with his masculinity.

Do you even have any actual straight or hetero male friends at all? Try asking them if they'd ever get oral sex from a man when they're horny.

I have talked to my straight male friends about this and they have told me how they would have sex with the ugliest, oldest, or even a woman that's obese than ever have sex with a man since they're not sexually attracted to men at all. It's not biphobia or homophobia, or being closeted or in denial at all.

[dafydd]

You're one of those way too common bisexual men who thinks that because we're bisexual that somehow everyone else is, or that you somehow assume that because we like sex with men that all men are somehow going to look for male sexual partners. There are a lot of gay men out there who do this sort of projecting upon all men and it's just a pipe dream.

actually I'm the opposite. my comments are in defense of straight men who can have a male sex experience and not be labelled 'bisexual'.
I don't think everyone is inherently bisexual. I don't eroticise having sex with straight men. I like to have sex with men who like having sex with men. Bisexuals, and gay men only.

Dave, my posts completely agree with your viewpoint, have a re-read. We're coming from the same point of view. I'd hope I was clearer but maybe I wasn't. The context of the original quote was I think about college kids or kids in school. I believe you can experiment with same-sex attraction as a younger adult and still be hetereosexual.



I have talked to my straight male friends about this and they have told me how they would have sex with the ugliest, oldest, or even a woman that's obese than ever have sex with a man since they're not sexually attracted to men at all. It's not biphobia or homophobia, or being closeted or in denial at all.

Yes I completely agree with you. :)

[drugstore cowboy]

Straight guys don't experiment or have sex with the same gender as young adults. The same goes for straight women.

If they really were straight or hetero they wouldn't be having sex fantasies about the same gender, seeking out the same gender to have sex with, and actually having sex with the same gender at all.

If a straight identified person does have sex with the same gender in the way the OP described it makes them bisexual at least, or sometimes they are just gay or lesbian but have been in denial about their sexuality.

[darkeyes]

Straight guys don't experiment or have sex with the same gender as young adults. The same goes for straight women.

If they really were straight or hetero they wouldn't be having sex fantasies about the same gender, seeking out the same gender to have sex with, and actually having sex with the same gender at all.

If a straight identified person does have sex with the same gender in the way the OP described it makes them bisexual at least, or sometimes they are just gay or lesbian but have been in denial about their sexuality.

I go along with you babes but do diverge when we discuss the young.. daffy ws not talking about young adults necessarily I dont think, he was talking about the young.. in and just out of adolescence as I read it.. and when kids are young they do all sorts of things they end up not wanting to do when they grow up and mature.. here I do not talk about men because not being one it is a tadge arrogant and fanciful to speak for men, but know several straight women as do my friends, and as does my own mum, who as young adolescents and immediately post adolescence in particular, experimented with their own gender.. just as we all experimented with certain sex acts and other things such as smoking, alcohol and drugs, whether we are gay straight or bi, it is not so uncommon for women when they are young to experiment sexually with other girls.

Even as they grow into adulthood, straight women can be sufficiently precocious so as to feign and even participate in lesbian acts to attract or impress guys.. this isnt as common as many make it out to be.. but it does happen more than some would prefer..

..but as our sexuality begins to mature, and we increasingly know what we are, that play and experimentation of youth gradually evolves into a more set sexuality. How different it is for men I am unable to say, but for the young, even into early adulthood, such is the confusing mix of emotions and hormones that just because a girl may have had sex with other girls and women, even on a frequent basis in adolescence and early adulthood, does not of itself, make them any the less straight than the fact that I fucked about with both genders throughout adolescence and early adulthood make me any the less lesbian.

[sammie19]

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Do you two know each other? Or has Sammie been keeping secrets? :rolleyes:

I dont know why you ask the first question since you know the answer to it.:)

Everyone keeps secrets. One open secret is that I love the colour pink. Thankfully loving pink has the great advantage of keeping the dark side at bay.;)

[Gearbox]

If a male gets an erection at the thought of another male giving him head, it seems to me, that they are, at the very least, bisexual.
Yes! But a male can blow his load into ANYTHING while thinking of something entirely different.;)
Fleshlite's are a good example of that. It's where their mind is at that counts, and not where their cocks are.lol
Horny little sods would happily fuck a soft watermelon with no mental sexual interest in the watermelon itself, except for the physical feel of it.

So I don't think it's absolutely impossible for a straight male to get blown by another male and remain straight. As long as the sexual thrill doesn't involve the giver being male in his mind.
Watermelonosexuals don't exist, yet it goes on in some parts.:bigrin:

Lets not forget that straight males masturbate with their male hands. They are not thinking about that at the time though.

[Realist]

I agree with Gearbox.

In my early teens and into my 30s, I would get an erection when I least expected it...with no thought about sex at all. (I know, I really did think a lot about sex, too)

But, I would often get an erection, while participating in a difficult test, eating a meal with my family, watching a western, etc, etc. I even remember getting an erection while marching in the Army! The only thing that could help was sex, or, as a last resort, masturbation. One was sexual, naturally, and the other was just mindless pressure relief.

I believe, if I was totally straight that, at those times, if someone insisted on doing something to make me have an orgasm, that I would have let them! But, being bisexual, I would want to return the favor, no matter their gender.

I have known straight guys, in high school and college, who would allow anyone to suck them, or give them a hand job, but never consider reciprocating. But, I also believe, if that a male got aroused, while touching, or talking to another guy, he had to have some degree of bisexuality in his soul.

Not sure if there are any women like that, but I think they are much more cerebral and are less likely to be that impulsive.

[tenni]

I agree with Realist and Gear to a great extent. For those that think that a guy who receive must be at a minimum bisexual for receiving, is the opposite true? A bisexual man who doesn't like to give head is not really bisexual?

I am not really turned on by giving head usually but I enjoy getting head. I give what I want to receive but it doesn't turn me on at all (usually) to give head. At times I don't mind giving head and at times I will work around it if I can. ie. if the other guy is really turned on to give and doesn't care to receive. I wont' then.:bigrin: and I'm quite happy with that.

Are guys who like to receive and not give a new category of sexuality or new division of bisexuality?...;) Or are they just greedy dinks?...:)

Or do some see this as only a one way street?

[dafydd]

Yes! But a male can blow his load into ANYTHING while thinking of something entirely different.;)


You've hit the nail on the head there Gearbox! Good call.

I have friends who have had blowjobs by guys when they were 17 but who are hetereosexual.
I've also got a lot of gay friends who have had sexual experiences with women in their early 20s but would not call themselves bisexual.

If one thinks that a straight man is bisexual just because he's been sucked off by a guy, then you have to believe that all those gay men out there who went down on women in college are also bisexual. Many of them wouldn't agree.
And what about gay Muslim men for instance who are forced into arranged marriages and who have sex with their wife and may even have children but are forced to be closeted because of their religion? Are they bi? Maybe, but they could also identify solely as gay.

In the same respect, are there no gay men who have fathered children through sex? Of course they are and some who prefer to do this than through artificial insemination. But they are not bisexual just because they had sex with a woman.

I suppose it also depends on whether you view sexuality as an identity, a description of your current sexual experiences, or a record of your sexual history. Each view is totally valid and for the individual, but not every man finds connection in where they put their dick one night 20/30/40 years ago with how they describe themselves now.

[dafydd]

Straight guys don't experiment or have sex with the same gender as young adults. The same goes for straight women.

If they really were straight or hetero they wouldn't be having sex fantasies about the same gender, seeking out the same gender to have sex with, and actually having sex with the same gender at all.


In some areas of the world there is enough discourse about sexuality in education that it is not always seen as bad to be bi or gay. Some people who later identify as straight were curious as kids, saw no stigma attached to experimenting with the same gender and decided they didn't like it. that's the point of experimenting. you might decide you don't like it.

[Darkside2009]

I dont know why you ask the first question since you know the answer to it.:)

Everyone keeps secrets. One open secret is that I love the colour pink. Thankfully loving pink has the great advantage of keeping the dark side at bay.;)

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Better by far, than garlic cloves or wolf's bane. :tong:

[want2havefun]

Straight guys don't experiment...with the same gender as young adults. The same goes for straight women.



Sounds like someone has bought into a political agenda....rather than accepting or understanding the extreme complex nature of human sexuality. In other words, knowing differently, I would regard the above statement as pure unadulterated bullshit.

[want2havefun]

But a male can blow his load into ANYTHING while thinking of something entirely different.;)

So I don't think it's absolutely impossible for a straight male to get blown by another male and remain straight. .

Ding ding ding....we have a winner!

That doesnt follow the 'gay PC' or 'bi PC' line or agenda though. And therein lies the problem for those who dare utter such. ;)

[sammie19]

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Better by far, than garlic cloves or wolf's bane. :tong:

I eat a great deal of garlic too, but had never known what Wolfsbane is or does till now. I'll stick to pink and garlic. I want scare u off not do u in.:)

[bigal5050]

nothing for nothing but being a pitcher or a catcher your playing in the game no matter how you justify it to yourself your doing gay sex if the person your playing is of the same sex as you are

[elian]

There are examples in a lot of cultures I've read about where between two men there is a stigma in being the "submissive" person. ..of course my perverse mind wonders, when someone is giving you oral sex, who is the one really in control?

Like everything else in society people seem to have a very "flat" two dimensional view..

..and I just couldn't post this without linking to the video below..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXz-HCcDUHY

..of course, the clip didn't show the next part of the scene, where a helpful nun pulls her station wagon off to the side of the road and offers to give them a ride.. <shakes head>

[ckman314]

I was always a bottom but lately I've been enjoying being a top