Rush Limbaugh Blames School’s Tolerance For Murder Of Gay Student

[æonpax]

"On Monday, prosecutors announced that they had reached a plea deal with Brandon McInerney, a 17-year-old student who shot and killed Larry King in February of 2008 for acting flamboyantly. Under the terms of the agreement, McInerney will spend 21 years in prison, until he is 38 years old, and avoid a second trial.

But during the Nov. 22 edition of his radio show, Rush Limbaugh suggested that Oxnard middle school — which the two boys attended — was partly responsible for King’s killing because school authorities were interested in promoting a homosexual agenda and had not done enough to dissuade King from dressing in women’s accessories, wearing makeup, and flirting with male students:" ~ http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2011/11/22/375043/after-murder-of-gay-student-rush-limbaugh-blames-middle-school-for-promoting-gay-agenda/ ~

The puke, Rush Limbaugh has always been a loathsome suet, hate and fear monger. He has gotten filthy rich preying on the prejudices of uneducated people.

Having said that, could he possibly have a point? Given the realities of a world that still is homophobic and where parents teach that to their kids, would not an ounce of prevention be worth more than a pound of cure?

Despite the gains made by gays, we are still hounded by those who wish to do us harm. I know I would tell a gay youth to be very careful and going in someones face about your orientation is not the right way to gain acceptance.

`

[darkeyes]

The puke, Rush Limbaugh has always been a loathsome suet, hate and fear monger. He has gotten filthy rich preying on the prejudices of uneducated people.

Having said that, could he possibly have a point? Given the realities of a world that still is homophobic and where parents teach that to their kids, would not an ounce of prevention be worth more than a pound of cure?

Despite the gains made by gays, we are still hounded by those who wish to do us harm. I know I would tell a gay youth to be very careful and going in someones face about your orientation is not the right way to gain acceptance.

`

He doesnt have a point. Cos what he is saying we should fuck off back into the closet and never show our faces to the unperverted world ever again...

Course we should go through life exercising some caution and knowing whatever we can and cant do.. but put it this way.. after homosexuality was legalised where would the lgbt be if people stayed hidden away? Black kids have been killed by white, white by black once the races became accepted as equal and educated together.. it was difficult for them to hide what they were.. schools preached tolerance and acceptance of kids as human beings whatever their race.. it is as it should be.. similarly with homosexuality.. it is easier to hide our sexuality than our ethnic origin but until those of us who are not straight openly exercise our right to be not straight and to be equal to others, we will never gain the tolerance, understanding and acceptance that is our right.

[Long Duck Dong]

what he is saying, is true,...... as much as we hate to hear it.....

bullies will go for the target that is different, weaker, more of a out cast etc etc.... its a known fact....... its something I have mentioned so many times in the site.... we could end up creating targets.....

I am not excusing what rush said, not the killing of the student... merely saying that in a sense, rush is correct..... by allowing the student to dress as they did, they became a very unfortunate target......

most gay people can be out without being visibly different.... so yes, we have made good head way with the freedoms of the LGBT to be who they are... unfortunately we can not protect them in the same way we can not protect all of the bullied students.......

but if people regardless of sexuality, are going to want to act / dress in a manner that stands out, they are going to draw attention to themselves.... regardless of what they think their rights are......

if what has been said is true, that the student was encouraged to express themselves with the way they dressed, the makeup and the flirting with male students ( I will keep a open mind on that part ).. then yes behievour that is potential volatile, may have been encouraged...... and if that is the case, then yes, the people that encouraged it, are partly responsible for creating a situation that may have been avoidable

updated, did a lil research and not fully sure its 100% accurate

In July 2008, Newsweek reported that a day or two before the shooting King walked onto the basketball court in the middle of a game and asked McInerney to be his Valentine in front of the team who then made fun of McInerney. Just after lunchtime on February 11, King passed McInerney in a corridor and called out, "Love you baby". Later that day King was seen "parading" back and forth in high-heeled boots and makeup in front of McInerney. According to a teacher, a group of boys was laughing at McInerney who was getting visibly upset and assistant principal Joy Epstein, noticing McInerney's reaction, wagged her finger at him. When McInerney endured teasing because of the incident, he attempted to recruit other students to assault King but no one expressed interest. He then told one of King's friends to say goodbye to him "because she would never see him [King] again".

In August 2008, King's family filed a claim against E.O. Green Junior High School at Ventura County Superior Court, alleging that the school's allowing King to wear makeup and feminine clothing was a factor leading to his death. According to the California Attorney General's Office, however, the school could not legally have stopped King from wearing girls' clothes because state law prevents gender discrimination.

[tenni]

Under no circumstance does the 14 year old(now 17) have the right or any justification for killing the other boy because of his sexual behaviour. Apparently , the prosecution portrayed the killer as a homophobic white racist in the first trial.

In a sub article it points out that the dead boy's mother asked the school to tone down her son's cross dressing and makeup wearing. It also states that the dead boy was removed from the home of his mother due to conflicts at home. The state removed the dead boy or the dead boy asked to live elsewhere due to his mother's behaviour. The school told the mother that the boy had a civil right to explore his sexuality.

Now if the dead boy was being excessive with his flirting and being sexually aggressive with other boys, I think that the school could have asked him to tone it down in the same way that a boy might be asked to be less sexually aggressive with girls. Sexual harassment is sexual harassment and if the school deemed the dead boy's behaviour as inappropriate consequences should have been applied. I didn't read any detail as to how aggressive the dead boy was towards other boys and so I don't know.

Limbaugh states that one teacher suggested that the boy tone down his dressing and then gave him a green chiffon dress. The reason why this teacher did this or what she said was not reported by Limbaugh. I would not trust this Limbaugh's phrasing at all and so I discard his comment due to a lack of more details.

I agree that the dead boy should have been counselled to be more cautious and definitely less sexually aggressive(if he was actually flirting by touching other boys) if there were complaints from other boys. The same should be done if a guy was sexually aggressive with a girl and she complained.

If the dead boy asked the killer to be a Valentine and go to a dance with him, I think that the dead boy has executed poor judgement. Someone should have counselled him but I'm not sure that it is the school's responsibility. If he was in the care of the state, and a transexual, he may have fallen through the cracks of treatment. It is not the school's responsibility to provide gender counselling. They may or should have directed him to the proper channels of gender identity, sexual identity, etc. counselling.

It is my experience that the education system's responsibility to provide academic counselling and to that extent some individual interpersonal counselling if it interferes with the student's ability to learn or the overall atmosphere for learning. Beyond short term counselling, the school directs the student (and parents or state custody in this case) to the proper counselling facilities and facilates the co operation of various services within a community.

Bottom line is that the killer didn't have the right to kill him. The community apparently was very emotional and the state didn't want a second trial due to the emotional conflict of the community. The school was not responsible for the boy's death.

[keefer201]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/11/22/pushing_an_agenda_larry_king_is_dead_after_school_ ignores_mother_s_plea

I am surprised that your computer didn't explode by going to Rush's website. I dare anyone to validate Aeon's hate after you have read the full transcript of what Rush said on his show yesterday. When someone wants to push an agenda, as Aeon is trying so desperatly to do, they will see spooks in a box of Cheerios. As for uneducated audiance? Rush happens to have the most intelligent audiance of any radio show. I suggest you educate yourself, Aeon and stop the bigotry.:eek:

[keefer201]

As a side note; Elton John performed at Rush's wedding two years ago. :bigrin:

[Diva667]

Read through the transcript.

This tragedy is much too serious to be taken on by the likes of Rush Limbaugh. He has no idea what he is talking about.

The blame lies squarely at the feet of Brandon McInerney's feet and his parents. His parents for not controlling access to their weapons, his for pulling the trigger.

To 'blame' the school re-frames this in a way that is reprehensible. It's the same trick that rapist use when they try to blame the victim.

[DuckiesDarling]

When the story first broke it raised a lot of questions, none have really been answered. When did the right to express himself turn into sexual harrassment? The school was damned if they did and damned if they didn't. One way they violated someone's first amendment right to express themselves, in another they allowed someone to be pushed into a corner where the choice was explode or implode. Either way the school would have pissed someone off with an action or inaction whether that be Rush Limbaugh or people on a forum.

[Diva667]

When the story first broke it raised a lot of questions, none have really been answered. When did the right to express himself turn into sexual harrassment? The school was damned if they did and damned if they didn't. One way they violated someone's first amendment right to express themselves, in another they allowed someone to be pushed into a corner where the choice was explode or implode. Either way the school would have pissed someone off with an action or inaction whether that be Rush Limbaugh or people on a forum.

Have you been following the latest drama in Fort Collins, Co?

Trans girl was suspended for using the womens restroom - defiance - along with a trans boy(for using the mens).

She has since dropped out of school, plans to go somewhere else next year.I know this person in passing and have spoken to her (we have friends in common.)

Near here there was another trans girl who was pushed out of school due to bullying . This isn't uncommon.

My point is, damned if you do damned if you don't. Whether or not the rest of the world approves, kids who are trans will express themselves. In or out of school, homeless or not. I've seen it , heard it , read about it. The question is, if we value these kids, what are we gonna do to make their lives easier and make it possible for them to get an education.

[DuckiesDarling]

Have you been following the latest drama in Fort Collins, Co?

Trans girl was suspended for using the womens restroom - defiance - along with a trans boy(for using the mens).

She has since dropped out of school, plans to go somewhere else next year.I know this person in passing and have spoken to her (we have friends in common.)

Near here there was another trans girl who was pushed out of school due to bullying . This isn't uncommon.

My point is, damned if you do damned if you don't. Whether or not the rest of the world approves, kids who are trans will express themselves. In our out of school, homeless or not. I've seen it , heard it , read about it. The question is, if we value these kids, what are we gonna do to make their lives easier and make it possible for them to get an education.

No, I haven't been following the latest drama in a state I don't live in so it didn't make my local news I responded to a post regarding a certain case and stated my opinion. Your post didn't answer my question, when is it beyond free expression and turns into sexual harrassment?

[keefer201]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-1122-gay-shooting-20111122,0,425342.story

Here's the story that the L.A. Times gave. It can be researched further for the orginal trial which ended in a hung jury. I don't think this story or Rush Limbaugh is the real issue here. What I've been noticing within these threads, is a dangerous rush to judgement on anything that may fit our particular distates. It doesn't matter whether it's pizza sauce or Rush, read the article first, sit back and digest it, then make a judgement You may not like the reality, but the school is 100% responsible for fostering an atmosphere for this trajedy to take shape. Equally guilty is a system that allows children to take on roles that they are not even remotely mature enough to understand.

[Diva667]

No, I haven't been following the latest drama in a state I don't live in so it didn't make my local news I responded to a post regarding a certain case and stated my opinion. Your post didn't answer my question, when is it beyond free expression and turns into sexual harrassment?

Regardless of whether it was sexual harassment. I believe these two had a history of conflict. Teasing Brandon was probably one way that Lawrence had of overcoming the conflict.

Brandon McInerney's actions were wrong, indisputably. There were many other ways he could have reacted. It doesn't matter whether he was teased or not. Nothing excuses pulling a gun out and killing someone.

Should a teacher stepped in, yes. Unfortunately most teachers and school systems aren't trained or equipped to deal with LGBT kids. Far too many times the bully gets away and the lgbt kid ends up punished.

Oh and the story about the transgirl in Fort Collins was in "The Advocate" which is why I asked. (http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/11/10/Trans_Girl_Suspended_from_High_School_for_Using_Ba throom/) The Advocate being national LGBT media.

[Diva667]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-1122-gay-shooting-20111122,0,425342.story

Here's the story that the L.A. Times gave. It can be researched further for the orginal trial which ended in a hung jury. I don't think this story or Rush Limbaugh is the real issue here. What I've been noticing within these threads, is a dangerous rush to judgement on anything that may fit our particular distates. It doesn't matter whether it's pizza sauce or Rush, read the article first, sit back and digest it, then make a judgement You may not like the reality, but the school is 100% responsible for fostering an atmosphere for this trajedy to take shape. Equally guilty is a system that allows children to take on roles that they are not even remotely mature enough to understand.

So you are saying they put a gun in Brandon's hand and pulled the trigger. I don't see it that way, at all.

As far as "allows children to take on roles that they are not even remotely mature enough to understand." I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Do some research into what lgbt kids go through, then come back and speak when you have some wisdom. This isn't / wasn't about sex. It was about expression.

That Brandon felt it was ok to pull out a gun and shoot someone over being teased, that is the crime. There is no excusing it. That nether were taught better way of dealing with conflict, there the school , and our society is culpable.

[keefer201]

So you are saying they put a gun in Brandon's hand and pulled the trigger. I don't see it that way, at all.

As far as "allows children to take on roles that they are not even remotely mature enough to understand." I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Do some research into what lgbt kids go through, then come back and speak when you have some wisdom. This isn't / wasn't about sex. It was about expression.

That Brandon felt it was ok to pull out a gun and shoot someone over being teased, that is the crime. There is no excusing it. That nether were taught better way of dealing with conflict, there the school , and our society is culpable.

I think I've heard enough of this lgbt crap. I'm the father of five, count 'em, five children. I know exactly what a 14 year old is capable of understanding at that age. As far as putting a gun in his hand, that's an old trick and never works but you liberals will die trying to get it to. I hear your door bell, it's the pizza delivery guy.

[Long Duck Dong]

Regardless of whether it was sexual harassment. I believe these two had a history of conflict. Teasing Brandon was probably one way that Lawrence had of overcoming the conflict.

Brandon McInerney's actions were wrong, indisputably. There were many other ways he could have reacted. It doesn't matter whether he was teased or not. Nothing excuses pulling a gun out and killing someone.

Should a teacher stepped in, yes. Unfortunately most teachers and school systems aren't trained or equipped to deal with LGBT kids. Far too many times the bully gets away and the lgbt kid ends up punished.

should a teacher stepped in, yes.... they are not equipped to deal with MANY issues, they have to walk a very fine line in order to not be slammed for doing too much, not enuf, doing it the wrong way etc etc......

bit like the police that constantly cop the flak, no matter what they do, even when they are dealing with illegal occupying of land

yes, the way brandon handled things was wrong, it cost a life... but thats the issue with PC laws and measures, they do not always fix things without fucking things up and creating more issues......

the schools hands were tied by a legal anti discrimination law, and under that law, larry king was able to push the limits to a dangerous level.... something that we all know, can cause issues..... add the sexual harrassment ( which apparently was witnessed by teachers ) and you end up with a person with a history of mal adjustment, taking action.......

thats right I said history of mal adjustment, there was a issue there already with brandon.... and as a person that has a mental disorder myself, I can honestly say that it doesn't take much to push us from a point of struggling to cope, to taking action.....

it still doesn't justify brandons acts, but it does reveal the serious flaws in the laws and thinking that have led once again to the taking of yet another human life..... and once again we do not see the people that wanted such laws, standing up and saying we need to rethink things and review them.... cos they are hiding like so many people do, when their best laid plans go south

[void()]

So you are saying they put a gun in Brandon's hand and pulled the trigger. I don't see it that way, at all.

As far as "allows children to take on roles that they are not even remotely mature enough to understand." I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Do some research into what lgbt kids go through, then come back and speak when you have some wisdom. This isn't / wasn't about sex. It was about expression.

That Brandon felt it was ok to pull out a gun and shoot someone over being teased, that is the crime. There is no excusing it. That nether were taught better way of dealing with conflict, there the school , and our society is culpable.


I think I've heard enough of this lgbt crap. I'm the father of five, count 'em, five children. I know exactly what a 14 year old is capable of understanding at that age. As far as putting a gun in his hand, that's an old trick and never works but you liberals will die trying to get it to. I hear your door bell, it's the pizza delivery guy.

Take a minute and read Diva's post again. Here let me emphasize.

So you are saying they put a gun in Brandon's hand and pulled the trigger. I don't see it that way, at all.


Diva was not saying nor accusing anyone of "putting the gun in his hand". She in fact states he was responsible. Although, she does express an opinion commonly held that society bears a portion of the responsibility. It takes a village to rear a child.

Next time, please read what is written. It is not always what you think it may be, nor does it always merit venom slung back. Yes, I speak this from experience.

[æonpax]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/11/22/pushing_an_agenda_larry_king_is_dead_after_school_ ignores_mother_s_pleaI am surprised that your computer didn't explode by going to Rush's website. I dare anyone to validate Aeon's hate after you have read the full transcript of what Rush said on his show yesterday. When someone wants to push an agenda, as Aeon is trying so desperatly to do, they will see spooks in a box of Cheerios. As for uneducated audiance? Rush happens to have the most intelligent audiance of any radio show. I suggest you educate yourself, Aeon and stop the bigotry.:eek:
`
In Wisconsin, we have a saying.....


http://i.imgur.com/Yi6Pg.jpg
`

[æonpax]

As a side note; Elton John performed at Rush's wedding two years ago. :bigrin:

and this means what?



Elton John Explains Rush Alliance (http://www.politico.com/click/stories/1102/elton_john_explains_limbaugh_alliance.html#comment s)

Anti-Gay Activist Pastor Ken Hutcherson Married Rush Limbaugh Before Elton Entertains (http://www.towleroad.com/2010/06/antigay-activist-ken-hutcherson-married-rush-limbaugh-before-elton-john-entertained.html)

Rush Limbaugh's Top Anti-Gay Quotes (http://www.towleroad.com/2010/06/antigay-activist-ken-hutcherson-married-rush-limbaugh-before-elton-john-entertained.html)

Limbaugh Adds To Long History Of Anti-Gay Rhetoric (http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201101180057)


During his live radio show on November 22, Rush Limbaugh claimed the school's progressive attitude was at fault for King's murder. "He was showing up in school dressed as a woman," Limbaugh said. "So now a confused 17-year-old is dead because the school [said] 'Ah, there's nothing we can do.'"

But Limbaugh had his facts wrong, according to Superintendent Jerry Dannenberg, who told The Huffington Post over the phone on Tuesday that King had not broken the rules of the middle school's dress code, which forbid a male student to wear dresses to school. It's true that Larry King wore heels, makeup, and jewelry to class. But none of these things were against the school's dress policy, said Dannenberg. ~ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/23/lawrence-king-gay-murder_n_1109047.html ~

[keefer201]

and this means what?



Elton John Explains Rush Alliance (http://www.politico.com/click/stories/1102/elton_john_explains_limbaugh_alliance.html#comment s)

Anti-Gay Activist Pastor Ken Hutcherson Married Rush Limbaugh Before Elton Entertains (http://www.towleroad.com/2010/06/antigay-activist-ken-hutcherson-married-rush-limbaugh-before-elton-john-entertained.html)

Rush Limbaugh's Top Anti-Gay Quotes (http://www.towleroad.com/2010/06/antigay-activist-ken-hutcherson-married-rush-limbaugh-before-elton-john-entertained.html)

Limbaugh Adds To Long History Of Anti-Gay Rhetoric (http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201101180057)

I suppose it means you're a heterophobe. One day the rocks you roll over to find something that's not there is going to turn out to be a boulder and is going to crush you. Yeesh.......enjoy life and stop grumbling about everyones sex. You are blessed with very good looks, but you are troubled.

[Pasadenacpl2]

We have a saying at the GSA: Don't freak the mundanes. There is a huge difference between being out and and outright embarrassing someone else by socially rubbing your cock in their face.

The dead boy embarrassed the other boy in front of his peers. And he continued to taunt this student. The outcome was predictable.

I am not siding with the killer. He's going to prison till his 38 (and good luck creating a life starting at 38). And well he should. He was wrong and his actions were reprehensible.

The school is responsible, too, and almost exactly like Limbaugh says. They should have stepped in. Were it me, I'd have yanked the gay boy up and asked him what the hell he thought he was doing acting so stupidly. I'd have also called the parents of the killer and warned them that if anything happens to the gay boy, we'll come looking at him as the prime suspect. I've had to make those sorts of calls before. The result is that the kid I'm threatening goes to his friends and tells them to leave the gay kid alone because they don't want to get blamed for anyone else's stupidity.

The fact of the matter is, the school knew something was amiss. They did nothing about it until it was too late. They are responsible, and the entire administration team needs to be on the street.

Pasa
Teacher and sponsor of Gay/Straight Alliance

[æonpax]

When the story first broke it raised a lot of questions, none have really been answered. When did the right to express himself turn into sexual harrassment? The school was damned if they did and damned if they didn't. One way they violated someone's first amendment right to express themselves, in another they allowed someone to be pushed into a corner where the choice was explode or implode. Either way the school would have pissed someone off with an action or inaction whether that be Rush Limbaugh or people on a forum.

A child is needlessly murdered. 17-year-old Brandon McInerney, on Monday, pleaded guilty to the second-degree murder of King. This is tragic in itself. Now, all the arm chair theorists are coming out to assess blame.

Some member of the LGBT community say that the school did not do enough to protect Lawrence ( http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/11/fischer-flamboyant-homosexual-lawrence-kings-murderer-is-the-real-victim/ ) also suggesting that McInerney is also a victim of the right wing hate mongers. Perhaps, perhaps not. I don't have all the facts.

I do agree that the school should have done more, however, in this litigious country, people are sacred to get involved for fear of a lawsuit. Giving aid to a victim, hurt in a car accident may lead to a civil suit. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Teachers who knew about this on-going harassment between King and McInerney, were genuinely scared of getting involved.

This Wiki article has a pretty good summary of this whole incident ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.O._Green_School_shooting ~


`

[Long Duck Dong]

I have shared this issue with a number of friends and a couple of teachers in NZ

the teachers response was yes that the teachers should have stepped in.... but if the us is like NZ, stepping in will often end up with the teachers getting in the shit and told they are overstepping the boundaries.....

a few friends and one of the teachers said that uniforms make infringement on the rights of expression but they can stop a lot of issues at the same time such as truancy and yes, behievour that can be seen as excessive.....

all of them said the same thing, both kids had underlying issues long before this, it would appear both of them had been on / still were on meds.... and teachers are teachers, not counsellors, therapists, psychologists, medics etc... they are only human .....

all of them said the same thing, at what point do we acknowledge that maybe the best intentions are not the best idea....... they work in our heads but they do not work in reality.... how many more people are going to have to commit suicide or be killed before we acknowledge that we are creating a issue we want others to take the blame for when it goes wrong...

[keefer201]

We have a saying at the GSA: Don't freak the mundanes. There is a huge difference between being out and and outright embarrassing someone else by socially rubbing your cock in their face.

The dead boy embarrassed the other boy in front of his peers. And he continued to taunt this student. The outcome was predictable.

I am not siding with the killer. He's going to prison till his 38 (and good luck creating a life starting at 38). And well he should. He was wrong and his actions were reprehensible.

The school is responsible, too, and almost exactly like Limbaugh says. They should have stepped in. Were it me, I'd have yanked the gay boy up and asked him what the hell he thought he was doing acting so stupidly. I'd have also called the parents of the killer and warned them that if anything happens to the gay boy, we'll come looking at him as the prime suspect. I've had to make those sorts of calls before. The result is that the kid I'm threatening goes to his friends and tells them to leave the gay kid alone because they don't want to get blamed for anyone else's stupidity.

The fact of the matter is, the school knew something was amiss. They did nothing about it until it was too late. They are responsible, and the entire administration team needs to be on the street.

Pasa
Teacher and sponsor of Gay/Straight Alliance

Thank you so very much for breathing some very fresh air on this. I respect where you are coming from and the clarity in which you expressed your observation and opinion. This was a very tragic incident that should have been arrested while it was a situation, but it wasn't. I feel that trying to run a coon up a pole, in this case Rush Limbaugh, is not going to help the conversation one damn bit. I happened to be listening to Rush when he said what he did, and not once did it incline me to think that he was being bombastic or trying to incite anything other than responsibility. When the child is at home they are our responsibility ,when they go to school they are the responsibility of the staff there. We send, or at least I do, our children to school to learn and not to be indoctrinated.

[æonpax]

The school is responsible, too, and almost exactly like Limbaugh says. They should have stepped in. Were it me, I'd have yanked the gay boy up and asked him what the hell he thought he was doing acting so stupidly. I'd have also called the parents of the killer and warned them that if anything happens to the gay boy, we'll come looking at him as the prime suspect. I've had to make those sorts of calls before. The result is that the kid I'm threatening goes to his friends and tells them to leave the gay kid alone because they don't want to get blamed for anyone else's stupidity.

The fact of the matter is, the school knew something was amiss. They did nothing about it until it was too late. They are responsible, and the entire administration team needs to be on the street.

In regards to the obscenity that is Limbaugh, he should not have involved himself in this but the man's livelihood depends on spreading hate and discontent. His syncopates eat it up and has made this human waste, very rich. His putrid commentary has given rise to other anti-gay activists such as Bryan Fischer ~ http://www.afa.net/Radio/show.aspx?id=2147490466&tab=video&video=2147514086 ~

I also noticed you conveniently and erroneously left out the parents involvement and responsibility in all of this which as a matter of custom and US law, supersedes that of both the school district and the state.

Each school district in every part of the US is rules by laws limiting it's authority. In the case of bullying, yes they failed miserably to effectively intercede early on in this tragic incident. E.O. Green Middle School, which is located Ventura County, California, mandates that such actions take place. However, the school was NOT culpable for the murder of King. Neither the prosecution nor defense implied as much.

What was brought up was the parents, one whom encouraged her son to "do as please" (the word "flamboyant" was used), without giving cause to "reasonable caution" and another who came from a severely dysfunctional family.

The issue of where schools should actually get involved and to what extent is still a legal question that is up in the air. What we have here is the grossly hypocritical right whining about government intrusion in their lives yet by blaming the school, they are only inviting more laws to be passed giving the state more authority to directly interfere in their rights as parents.

There are a multiplicity of issues here that are not going to be easily solved and none of them are clear-cut. Those whom pompously and cavalierly blame the school WITHOUT taking into consideration, parental involvement, rights and responsibility, are only deluding themselves.
`

[Diva667]

We have a saying at the GSA: Don't freak the mundanes. There is a huge difference between being out and and outright embarrassing someone else by socially rubbing your cock in their face.

The dead boy embarrassed the other boy in front of his peers. And he continued to taunt this student. The outcome was predictable.

I am not siding with the killer. He's going to prison till his 38 (and good luck creating a life starting at 38). And well he should. He was wrong and his actions were reprehensible.

The school is responsible, too, and almost exactly like Limbaugh says. They should have stepped in. Were it me, I'd have yanked the gay boy up and asked him what the hell he thought he was doing acting so stupidly. I'd have also called the parents of the killer and warned them that if anything happens to the gay boy, we'll come looking at him as the prime suspect. I've had to make those sorts of calls before. The result is that the kid I'm threatening goes to his friends and tells them to leave the gay kid alone because they don't want to get blamed for anyone else's stupidity.

The fact of the matter is, the school knew something was amiss. They did nothing about it until it was too late. They are responsible, and the entire administration team needs to be on the street.

Pasa
Teacher and sponsor of Gay/Straight Alliance

I don't see this as a gay issue at all... but whatevs. I will say this Rush thinks everyone ought to be just like him, he doesn't understand (nor do I believe he cares to) what it is to be different.

I also feel the parents of Brandon are culpable to a large extent.

Yes, the school is culpable too, but again access to weapons was allowed. Did the school put that gun where he could get it?

This is a tragedy, and Limbaugh only wants to use it for his political hay as per usual with him. This is what I find most reprehensible about his actions.

I grew up different in a time & place before the GSA, I do believe I know what I am talking about.

School shouldn't have to be a place where you have to hide who you are. People respond best when they are able to be themselves.

I've seen kids just like Lawrence quit school because they weren't able to be themselves.

From Rush Limbaugh (http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=10163&MediaType=1&Category=26) -

“Meaning he has a right to come to school dressed as a girl. He had a right to come to school dressed in female attire – wearing dresses. He had a right to explore whether or not he was a woman in a boy's body. He had the right to explore whether at some point he was going to need a chop-a-dick-offa-me operation.”

Does that not sound transphobic? Perhaps even homophobic? ]

From CNN


King, an openly gay teenager, was seated in the middle of the classroom with two dozen students and their teacher when McInerney allegedly shot him in the back of the head, authorities said.

Friends said King was proud of being openly gay. He liked wearing jewelry and makeup to school, and he often wore high-heeled boots with the school uniform. He asked his teachers to call him Leticia instead of Larry. Some students bullied him, pupils said.

The prosecution alleged McInerney had planned to shoot King over unwanted sexual advances, and said that McInerney had white-supremacist leanings, according to affiliate KABC.

The defense contended McInerney had a violent upbringing. It also argued that King taunted and flirted with McInerney, ultimately sparking the fatal confrontation, KTLA reported.

From the LA Times

Other teachers at the school testified that they were worried that King would be beaten after he began appearing at school in 4-inch-high suede boots and wearing eye makeup. Some reported their concerns to school administrators but were told that King had a civil right to dress as he pleased.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/12/local/la-me-gay-shooting-20110712


Larry King's feminine attire was upsetting some of the students and faculty at E.O. Green Junior High in Oxnard.

But there was nothing Assistant Principal Joy Epstein could do about it because King's high-heeled boots, earrings and eye makeup were within the Oxnard school's dress policy, Epstein testified Monday at the murder trial of King's classmate, Brandon McInerney.


McInerney then told a number of students that he was going to shoot or otherwise hurt King, but they didn't believe him.

She said McInerney had easy access to guns in his house, such as the .22 that he used in the crime. When she described how McInerney sat behind King and fired two shots, she clapped her hands.

Read more: http://www.vcstar.com/news/2011/jul/05/lawyers-give-opening-statements-in-brandon-case/?partner=RSS#ixzz1ebxz7WbL
- vcstar.com

[æonpax]

I don't see this as a gay issue at all... but whatevs. <snip>

I agree with you to a certain extent. Murder (as well as many other offenses) is a heinous crime, no matter who does it or why, and should be punished. Before being gay, Lawrence was an American citizen with all the rights and privileges entitled to him. In a non-bias, neutral society, a person's orientation should not be an issue, but the reality is, such things are.

This was the second trial by the way, the first one was declared a mistrial, in part, due to the "hate crime" enhancement the prosecution wanted to charge him with. ( http://www.queerty.com/the-hate-crime-charge-may-have-helped-derail-the-lawrence-king-trial-20110902/ ) By adding the "hate crime" charge, the state in effect, made it a "gay issue", as gays are covered as a "protected class citizen". In the second trial, the hate crime enhancement was dropped.

Personally, I am against such enhancements as it presupposes that a prosecuting attorney can read the intentions or thought process of the accused. For this reason, hate crime charges are actually rarely used becuase they are so difficult to prove.

[Long Duck Dong]

ok couple of points,
larry did not wear dresses, he wore boots, make up and earrings as per the school dress code...... goths can do the same thing and they are not trans people

larry came out to his father as bisexual not long before the shooting..... gay hate crimes are easier to claim than bisexual hate crimes.....

being flamboyant is not a sign of sexuality, its a form of expression......

so he did not come out as trans or gay, so its neither trans-phobic or homo-phobic... and a phobia is a irrational fear.... rush is hardly spouting statements based around irrational fear, but more along the lines of controversial statements...... and controversy gets attention

diva a lot of what you posted is how we have rights but a lack of protection for ALL students...... as we can not say that it was a LGBT issue as brandon was sexually harassed and non LGBT......

this is a prime example of how the laws need to be applied equally, and reviewed..... as the teachers themselves testify, there was a issue there that they wanted addressed, and found it could not be addressed.....

it would appear the only way it can be addressed, is to infringe on peoples rights to expression with the interest of saving lives..... and I think we will know that infringing on those rights, would lead to a outcry about how its wrong to infringe on peoples rights..... yet its the same infringement of brandons right to be free of harassment and sexual harassment that resulted in this issue....

he took alternative action, he asked for help, he said there was a issue.. and saw that no action was taken.... in the same way that many bullied victims see the same thing.... so he took matters into his own hands and I notice the difference in reactions in the thread between this issue and LGBT students that have taken their own lives.....

[æonpax]

1. gay hate crimes are easier to claim than bisexual hate crimes.....

2. being flamboyant is not a sign of sexuality, its a form of expression......

3. so he did not come out as trans or gay, so its neither trans-phobic or homo-phobic... and a phobia is a irrational fear....

4. rush is hardly spouting statements based around irrational fear, but more along the lines of controversial statements...... and controversy gets attention

5. as we can not say that it was a LGBT issue as brandon was sexually harassed and non LGBT......<snip/unsnip>

6. it would appear the only way it can be addressed, is to infringe on peoples rights to expression with the interest of saving lives..... and I think we will know that infringing on those rights, would lead to a outcry about how its wrong to infringe on peoples rights..... yet its the same infringement of brandons right to be free of harassment and sexual harassment that resulted in this issue....

7. he took alternative action, he asked for help, he said there was a issue.. and saw that no action was taken.... in the same way that many bullied victims see the same thing.... so he took matters into his own hands and I notice the difference in reactions in the thread between this issue and LGBT students that have taken their own lives.....

Your post requires some corrections;

1a. "Gay" can be used as a generic term for homosexual and all gays fall under the "protected class" status under the Hate Crime law. ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States ~

1b. "Claiming" something is one thing, proving it in court of law, another. People claim to be innocent all the time and are proven guilty.

2. Please follow the thread carefully;

Fischer: ‘Flamboyant homosexual’ Lawrence King’s murderer is the real victim ~ http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/11/fischer-flamboyant-homosexual-lawrence-kings-murderer-is-the-real-victim/

3. "In recent weeks, the victim, Lawrence King, 15, had said publicly that he was gay, classmates..." ~ http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/us/23oxnard.html

4. Ditto-head apologetica.

5. First off, who is "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Secondly, please read what the exact initial charges were against Brandon McInerney, I've already provided those links. Third, Brandon "claimed he was sexually harassed but they jury didn't buy it. ~ http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/22/us-crime-student-murder-idUSTRE7AL09920111122 ~

6. Huh???

7. He took "alternative action" by shooting his classmate to death. In a lawful, civilized society, that is not a reason to murder.

[Long Duck Dong]

Your post requires some corrections;

1a. "Gay" can be used as a generic term for homosexual and all gays fall under the "protected class" status under the Hate Crime law. ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_States ~

1b. "Claiming" something is one thing, proving it in court of law, another. People claim to be innocent all the time and are proven guilty.

2. Please follow the thread carefully;

Fischer: ‘Flamboyant homosexual’ Lawrence King’s murderer is the real victim ~ http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2011/11/fischer-flamboyant-homosexual-lawrence-kings-murderer-is-the-real-victim/

3. "In recent weeks, the victim, Lawrence King, 15, had said publicly that he was gay, classmates..." ~ http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/us/23oxnard.html

4. Ditto-head apologetica.

5. First off, who is "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Secondly, please read what the exact initial charges were against Brandon McInerney, I've already provided those links. Third, Brandon "claimed he was sexually harassed but they jury didn't buy it. ~ http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/22/us-crime-student-murder-idUSTRE7AL09920111122 ~

6. Huh???

7. He took "alternative action" by shooting his classmate to death. In a lawful, civilized society, that is not a reason to murder.

1a) since when are bisexuals homosexual ??????
1b) and people that are ruled guilty have been proven innocent

2) everybody can be a victim, it all depends on who is making the statement

3) King's father Greg is unconvinced his adoptive son was gay as Larry had only recently told him that he was actually bisexual. Greg believes that his son was sexually harassing McInerney, and has expressed concern that his son is being made a poster child for gay rights issues.[1] http://www.newsweek.com/id/147790&GT1=43002

5) I know what the original charges WERE...... the hate enhancement was dropped as the jury did not see it as a hate crime......
On August 7, 2008, in the same court, McInerney pleaded not guilty to premeditated murder and a hate crime. A preliminary hearing was set for September 23, 2008, which had been rescheduled for October 14, 2008
On November 21, 2011 McInerney pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter and use of a firearm

we can not call it a lgbt hate crime, meaning anybody without a agenda... people with a agenda, will call it anything they want to, and twist anything they can do support that theory.... IE prosecution lawyers.....
with lawyers the goal is not to prove guilt or innocence but to sway the jury in their favour... hence innocent people are found guilty and *guilty * are found innocent ( I use the *guilty * aspect as there have been cases where people have walked on a technicality even tho they have committed a offence and therefore have not been ruled to be guilty of a crime in a court of law )

6) simple terms, gurlie, change the laws to tweak them, people will bitch, leave them unchanged, we may see another larry king....

7) did you read what I wrote and misunderstand it????? brandon spoke to the teachers about the issue of the harassment, it was also witnesses and no action was taken to stop it.... its the same thing bullied victims often see.... hence we have suicides....

people deal with things in different ways, some internalise, some don't.... either way the results can be horrific.... laying the blame is not going to do much but addressing the issue before the shit hits the fan is often impossible cos of laws and guidelines etc etc, its a catch 22 situation......

sometimes the laws that give us freedom, are the laws that give others the freedom to * imprison * us

[æonpax]

1a) since when are bisexuals homosexual ??????
1b) and people that are ruled guilty have been proven innocent
2) everybody can be a victim, it all depends on who is making the statement
3) King's father Greg is unconvinced his adoptive son was gay as Larry had only recently told him that he was actually bisexual. Greg believes that his son was sexually harassing McInerney, and has expressed concern that his son is being made a poster child for gay rights issues.[1] http://www.newsweek.com/id/147790&GT1=43002
5) I know what the original charges WERE...... the hate enhancement was dropped as the jury did not see it as a hate crime......
On August 7, 2008, in the same court, McInerney pleaded not guilty to premeditated murder and a hate crime. A preliminary hearing was set for September 23, 2008, which had been rescheduled for October 14, 2008
On November 21, 2011 McInerney pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, voluntary manslaughter and use of a firearm
we can not call it a lgbt hate crime, meaning anybody without a agenda... people with a agenda, will call it anything they want to, and twist anything they can do support that theory.... IE prosecution lawyers.....
with lawyers the goal is not to prove guilt or innocence but to sway the jury in their favour... hence innocent people are found guilty and *guilty * are found innocent ( I use the *guilty * aspect as there have been cases where people have walked on a technicality even tho they have committed a offence and therefore have not been ruled to be guilty of a crime in a court of law )
6) simple terms, gurlie, change the laws to tweak them, people will bitch, leave them unchanged, we may see another larry king....
7) did you read what I wrote and misunderstand it????? brandon spoke to the teachers about the issue of the harassment, it was also witnesses and no action was taken to stop it.... its the same thing bullied victims often see.... hence we have suicides....
people deal with things in different ways, some internalise, some don't.... either way the results can be horrific.... laying the blame is not going to do much but addressing the issue before the shit hits the fan is often impossible cos of laws and guidelines etc etc, its a catch 22 situation......
sometimes the laws that give us freedom, are the laws that give others the freedom to * imprison * us

1a - Read and learn - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexuality . Also, in the legal vernacular and academia, Bisexuality is considered "homosexual" as in LGBT or Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender/Transsexual...sometimes Q is added for Queer and then there is pansexuality, cisgendered, et al. Of course there is argument with that but to each, their own.

1b - Yes it happens, but rare. "Project Innocent" is in the vanguard of such things.

2 - You don't read links, do you? One anti-gay, religious loonies rant.

3 - Again, the jury or judge did not buy it. Brandon murdered another human, there was no doubt about it. The excuse of sexual harassment was rejected as a mitigating factor, despite what his father "thought" or what Newsweek reported.

5 - You're Backtracking, cool. You are also using this so-called "gay agenda" excuse as if it's some kind of conspiracy. Prove it...on second thought, don't....I have a turkey in the oven.

6 - OK, that's your opinion. I just didn't want to mistake it for a factual statement.

7 - You are again, giving your opinion, which is good but without corroborating facts, they remain, opinions.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Long Duck Dong]

defination by opinion...... you are trying to debate a defination of a word....

as for peoples opinions, I will leave the insults to you.... to me they are people with a opinion... freedom of expression.... its the way you refer to them that shows you have a biased leaning.....

btw I said agenda... not gay agenda.... there is a difference between what I am writting and what you are reading....

and for my opinion, yeah its my opinion... and I guess all the issues over fighting for rights and fighting to stop people removing any rights, is a optical illusion....


I am not sure what you are trying to prove or what you are smoking ( I am assuming there, don't forgive me if I am wrong and you do not smoke at all... and yes that is not a typo, I said DON'T

btw it was the teachers that witnessed the sexual harassment and mentioned it in court, not larrys father... he was the one that made the mention about larry coming out to him as bisexual... hence I referred to larry talking to his father......

[jbandersnatch]

As far as I'm concerned (who cares, right?), Lush Rambo is a loud-mouthed, drug-addled a-hole....for the life of me, I can't understand why so many sentient (really?) folks pay any attention to what he utters, either orally or anally...!!!

[keefer201]

As far as I'm concerned (who cares, right?), Lush Rambo is a loud-mouthed, drug-addled a-hole....for the life of me, I can't understand why so many sentient (really?) folks pay any attention to what he utters, either orally or anally...!!!

You can wonder all ya want, my man but el Rushbo isn't worrying about why you're scratching a hole in your head over his success. To be honest, if I made over 50 million a year neither would I. You may also note that not one sitting senator or congressman fails to monitor his show daily, whether Democrat or Republican. The man moves the issues.

[void()]

He moves something alright.

[roy m cox]

Rush Limbaugh needs a enema lol ..

[keefer201]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/24/larry-king-murder-gay-tee_n_1112241.html

I don't think it's just Rush who is pointing the finger at the school.....seems everyone is. The rep. from Colorado must be a buddy of yours, Diva. He's as clueless as you are.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I like Rush. I'll admit it. I disagree with him on many, many occasions. But, I've been a part of his audience since he was on TV back in the early 90s. So, I guess I just know when he's being bombastic for entertainment purposes (often) and when he's being serious.

What amuses me is that so many just dismiss him out of hand. He's not the anti-christ (no, he isn't the harbinger of it either).

As to the issue at hand, it seems that there is plenty of blame to go around. From my perspective, going from most to least:

The killer
The parents of the killer
The school administration
The victim
The parents of the victim

Yeah, that's right. I put the victim as being partly responsible. I won't go so far as to say he had it comin'...but the outcome should have been obvious, even to him.

Pasa

[Diva667]

I think Rush Limbaugh is to blame...

Promotes a general homophobic intolerant attitude that encourages violence against those who are LGBT.

He's just another homophobic republican. [ho·mo·pho·bi·a [hoh-muh-foh-bee-uh]-noun-unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.] (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia) [an·tip·a·thy   [an-tip-uh-thee]
noun 1)a natural, basic, or habitual repugnance; aversion.2)an instinctive contrariety or opposition in feeling.3)an object of natural aversion or habitual dislike. ]

[Rhevan]

I like Rush. I'll admit it. I disagree with him on many, many occasions. But, I've been a part of his audience since he was on TV back in the early 90s. So, I guess I just know when he's being bombastic for entertainment purposes (often) and when he's being serious.

What amuses me is that so many just dismiss him out of hand. He's not the anti-christ (no, he isn't the harbinger of it either).

As to the issue at hand, it seems that there is plenty of blame to go around. From my perspective, going from most to least:

The killer
The parents of the killer
The school administration
The victim
The parents of the victim

Yeah, that's right. I put the victim as being partly responsible. I won't go so far as to say he had it comin'...but the outcome should have been obvious, even to him.

Pasa

I must say I agree with this. It's not like blaming the victim in a case of rape, this boy deliberately antagonized someone. He became the bully instead of the bullied. That was a powder keg that just exploded and honestly, I feel the school was lucky that the shooter didn't shoot other students as we see all too often on the nightly news.

[æonpax]

As far as I'm concerned (who cares, right?), Lush Rambo is a loud-mouthed, drug-addled a-hole....for the life of me, I can't understand why so many sentient (really?) folks pay any attention to what he utters, either orally or anally...!!!

One has to understand, causing division is Rush Limbaughs bread and butter. That vile filth of human garbage, lives on hate and discontent. In the tragic case of this murdered teen, that cesspool should not have commented at all but his audience, eats that stuff up…they hunger for his trash and perhaps therein, lays the real problem.

You have to hand it to that obese monstrosity though, he is good not only at propagandizing news, but he picked out his audience well and panders to them well.

If you check up on Limbaugh’s demographics (google; “limbaugh” and “demographics”) you’ll find about 90% of his fan base is male, over 50, conservative and Christian. (WASPs or While, Anglo-Saxon Protestants) These are the people making limbaugh rich. This group of thralls are homophobic, xenophobic, racist or prejudiced and misogynistic. These are scared people and Limbaugh feeds that fear.

There’s a quote I head when I was younger, “Blessed are the Peacemakers…” Limbaugh is just the opposite. We need a person that can bring people together, not this pussbag.



http://i.imgur.com/Jjq6e.jpg
`

[DuckiesDarling]

Aeon, there are plenty of people who find Rush Limbaugh entertaining while not believing everything he says. A lot of what he says can be agreed with by a lot of people in degrees. What I like about Rush is that he says what he thinks, he's not worried about whether or not it causes controversy, he says what HE thinks. He is entertaining in that sense and that is what people forget, his role as a talk show host is him being entertaining. What he says may be in direct opposition to what some think but that is the purpose, it makes them THINK.

I do not think that people who enjoy listening to him are
homophobic, xenophobic, racist or prejudiced and misogynistic. because I am one of the ones that enjoy listening and I am none of the above. So step off your high horse and actually argue intelligently instead of posting drivel you find on the net. If you don't like Rush, fine, but it doesn't mean those that like Rush are idiots.

[Rhevan]

Aeon, there are plenty of people who find Rush Limbaugh entertaining while not believing everything he says. A lot of what he says can be agreed with by a lot of people in degrees. What I like about Rush is that he says what he thinks, he's not worried about whether or not it causes controversy, he says what HE thinks. He is entertaining in that sense and that is what people forget, his role as a talk show host is him being entertaining. What he says may be in direct opposition to what some think but that is the purpose, it makes them THINK.

I do not think that people who enjoy listening to him are because I am one of the ones that enjoy listening and I am none of the above. So step off your high horse and actually argue intelligently instead of posting drivel you find on the net. If you don't like Rush, fine, but it doesn't mean those that like Rush are idiots.

Excellent response IMO.

[æonpax]

Aeon, there are plenty of people who find Rush Limbaugh entertaining while not believing everything he says. A lot of what he says can be agreed with by a lot of people in degrees. What I like about Rush is that he says what he thinks, he's not worried about whether or not it causes controversy, he says what HE thinks. He is entertaining in that sense and that is what people forget, his role as a talk show host is him being entertaining. What he says may be in direct opposition to what some think but that is the purpose, it makes them THINK.

I do not think that people who enjoy listening to him are because I am one of the ones that enjoy listening and I am none of the above. So step off your high horse and actually argue intelligently instead of posting drivel you find on the net. If you don't like Rush, fine, but it doesn't mean those that like Rush are idiots.

Spare me your quaint, uninformed and pompous retorts. You must feel pretty guilty becuase I was not directing it at you or anyone in particular. While I wish that drug addict no harm, I am fed up with him. If you find him entertaining, you must really have a ball watch people in this nation being driven apart which is what that puke is doing.

Argue about what? limbaugh? There is nothing to argue about. Want me to start listing links to all the hateful, UNINTELLIGENT, spiteful, degrading stuff that pig has said over the years all the people he has hurt....I'll do it.

So please, spare me your platitudes. Limbaugh is a force of harm, he a force that divides, he is a force that causes hate and is a danger to this country. You find that entertaining? I pity you and people like you. I could say more but prudence suggests I leave it at this.

[DuckiesDarling]

I'm beginning to see why Darkside ignored you, I think I'll join him. goodbye CLICK.

[keefer201]

I'm beginning to see why Darkside ignored you, I think I'll join him. goodbye CLICK.

Ditto from a Dittohead. LOL Seems someone was and is of the opinion that because this is a site for sexual human beings, that we are all to be taken as clones of one another and of one opinion. That's a mistake I see with more than a few but this one is tops. Sad, such an intelligent woman who also happens to be very pretty.