Finding balance

[void()]

Curious as to who does what in our realm here.

Gravy train - white collar stuff, admin, office, papers --- doctor, lawyer, clerk, billing, sales

Shit slide - blue collar stuff, building, digging ditches, farms, trades ---- welder, carpenter, laborer, gopher, "hey you"

Um - unemployed, out of work

[Realist]

I put Gravy Train, because I'm retired and it's just like being rich, but without the money!

I'm lucky, I had good jobs most of my life. Damned glad I'm not looking for a job, these days, tho!

[coyotedude]

Computer programmer here (a.k.a. web application developer) and supervisor in a government agency. Not a bad gig, if you can get it.

[void()]

Some background and motivation for this lies in a few items.

1. Will soon be forty.
2. Have worked the slide most of that life. One job was live hang in poultry plant, also involving shoveling offal.
3. Such work left no equal reward, instead took a good bit.
4. Taking stock and finding a possible and enjoyable course to greener pastures and golden autumn.

[DuckiesDarling]

Used to be Gravy Train but am on disability at this point. So while I am not working I am making enough to survive still, it may not be as much per year as I have made in my life, but it is allowing me to take back my life after losing everything in the fire. So I'm not voting on the poll cause none really apply per se but am putting in my two cents here.

[pepperjack]

Curious as to who does what in our realm here.

Gravy train - white collar stuff, admin, office, papers --- doctor, lawyer, clerk, billing, sales

Shit slide - blue collar stuff, building, digging ditches, farms, trades ---- welder, carpenter, laborer, gopher, "hey you"

Um - unemployed, out of work

I see blue collar labor as the backbone of this country! Speaking of which, I worked for Hawker-Beechcraft for awhile, building corporate jets. I worked on what was called the "rear spar", basically, the backbone of the wing, which, interestingly, also contained the landing gear. How many "gravy train" exces do u suppose entrusted their lives to my "shit-slide" labor?

[twntexas]

I'm a widower retired from servicing medical equipment. The little that's left from my retirement income goes to getting my '46 Ford pick up on the street. I have my dad in hospice so it gives me something to do here at the house.

[mikey3000]

Perfect topic!!

I rode the "gravy train" all my working life and I hated it. Upper lever financial management.

Got the pink slip 15 months ago and have been coasting ever since. Now I want to do the "shit slide" thing. I'm going back to school and picking up a trade. Going to become an electrician. I'm just scared that, at 42, I'm too old :(.

Any input would be much appreciated.

[pepperjack]

Perfect topic!!

I rode the "gravy train" all my working life and I hated it. Upper lever financial management.

Got the pink slip 15 months ago and have been coasting ever since. Now I want to do the "shit slide" thing. I'm going back to school and picking up a trade. Going to become an electrician. I'm just scared that, at 42, I'm too old :(.

Any input would be much appreciated.

U hated it, why? What's, coasting? Living off of benefits earned, which should be substantial. 42 still prime years in spite of what they say; supposedly over the hill; approaching 59 & still outperforming younger men; electrician is a good choice; Navy wanted to put me into advanced electronics in my late 20's; got cold feet; couldn't commit; still....:banghead:

[Ms Baby]

During my working years, I had jobs in both categories. Worked in factories, drove a truck, did hard physical labor. Then I went to work at the home office of an insurance company, and the rest of my jobs up until my retirement were in offices. Been an insurance Agent, payday loan office manager, admin assistant to an insurance Agent, and a telemarketer(ugh!).

Now I am retired (since April 2009) and have found that I am very good at it! All my working life I thought I wanted a career. Now I realize I just wanted a paycheck!

Gerri

[biguycancun]

Retired music producer. Gravy train.

[sammie19]

It isnt as simple as the three options is it? I have done shop work, white collar, and do the paperwork, ordering and bill paying for my partner's business (farming) and am presently setting up a small business of my own. Megan is well off, not short of money and works very hard.

In my life as shop worker I was treated like so much dirt, and as a white collar worker was never paid anything like average wage. Only a few pounds more than winimum wage. Currently, at least officially I am not in work, nor is my partner since she sold one business and doesn't take possession of the other for another 10 days .

So what am I and what is she? The idle rich? The idle poor? Or like most people just trying to make the best of whatever good fortune we have?

[Realist]

My GF has a good-paying job, but she is not appreciated. She's not happy, there, because she feels used. They know, because of the poor economy, that she is trapped and they can take advantage of her.

She works in a family-owned business where the relatives get the gravy and all of the accolades...........while the few, who actually do the work, are treated like minions. They use any excuse to not give her bonuses, but relatives get them automatically, regardless of their lack of contributions to the company. .

It's frustrating to see someone so bright and eager to excel at everything she does, to be treated like a servant. She's been looking desperately for another job and, if she finds one, they'll be surprised that she would want to leave!

[void()]

I see blue collar labor as the backbone of this country! Speaking of which, I worked for Hawker-Beechcraft for awhile, building corporate jets. I worked on what was called the "rear spar", basically, the backbone of the wing, which, interestingly, also contained the landing gear. How many "gravy train" exces do u suppose entrusted their lives to my "shit-slide" labor?

Backbone perhaps, yet as I'm sure we've all seen, backs oft bear far too much for far too little. No, this is not a pity parade. It is what it is. At forty I had thought "gee, a home for me and wife." Guess Carlin is right, the American dream is some thug robbing you while you sleep.

That aside, I'm of mind to change the way I play the game. May not be able to draw the cards I need, but can play hearts instead of poker and vise versa, maybe even play fortuna while the dealer plays blackjack.

[elian]

I have an office job, but I wouldn't necessarily call it the "gravy train" - I think the brain is a muscle just like any other - there are some days last year when I left work and my brain was like mush. There are times when I'm reverse engineering a database that I spend 8, 16 hours going down the wrong trail - writing things that are syntactically correct but that's not how the data's stored, or there's another business case that I didn't consider and my whole idea of how to get at something needs to be scrapped and re-written. I get to stand up in front of a group of 20 contractors and describe to them how our system works, train them on not only how MY system works but on our whole QA philosophy PLUS try to persuade them it's in their best interest to use what I have (they don't have a choice anyway but..) Some of them are just figuring out that they are going to have to do 200% more paperwork then they originally thought in order to manage the job. I also constantly deal with pissed off contractors who are angry when they can't get paid, people who don't understand the limitations of the system I manage, inter-divisional politics..try to appease all of those people - it's not always an easy job - but I love helping people, I love figuring out how things work and in the end when someone brings an issue to me I "own" it until I'm sure it's fixed..I make sure we all work together to get things done.

I have some very smart friends who always look down on the people who do the "shit slide" type jobs but I think it takes BOTH people who are "smart" and people who are good with their hands in order to make the world work.

There are some craftsman, such as the Amishmen I hired to refurb the outside of my house - who do things with wood, nails, screws and metal that I could NEVER do - my mind just doesn't have the patience, skill and knowledge to do it well.. They did a phenomenal job, and the work is beautiful - they put up the framing, the roof, the windows, new siding, widened the slab on the front porch and put a new exterior door and storm door on - they did most of it in one week, in the rain..I can't say enough how wonderful it was to work with those guys - respectful. I told them that and they just said, "We're glad to do it!"

I think trade work like Auto Tech, HVAC, Electrical, Welding, Masonry, Carpentry, etc. is very respectable work and if you invest in learning it there will ALWAYS be folks who need that sort of thing. If you have a gift for it and do well you can do just as well if not better in the wage department than any of the "gravy train" type folks. I won't lie, carrying bricks is hard work, but when you stand back you can be proud of what you've built with your own hands.

I had to groan and chuckle at the same time because on the radio the other day I heard that since Alabama enacted one of those tough new "immigration" laws the farmers that own the land there are worried their crops aren't going to get picked. Supposedly the "illegal" workers were going to be deported to make room for unemployed Americans. The trouble with that is that no "American" wants to do that type of work because it's "too hard" .. and they certainly don't want to do it for what those farmers can afford to pay - although everyone still expects everything to be as inexpensive as possible in the store.

I felt bad for one guy they interviewed who said he really DID want to keep working because he needed the money but his back just couldn't stand it.

[Darkside2009]

My friend Chalky just got a big promotion at work, he is now General Dogsbody instead of just a private. He is hoping to get some gold braid epaulettes for his over-alls and a new broom. :)

[darkeyes]

Gud God Voidie... best ya can come up wiv is gravy train?:eek: Cudnt afford me lifestyle on a gravy train tellya that now!!! Not wiv the price of decent plonk, champers an me Courvoisier, Cocoa an Ovaltine.. price of goin' out... lookin nice an keepin the years at bay... u seen the price of quality shoes??? 40 miles each way 2 work.. 2 horrors 2 feed an clothe and make sure r happy.. need moren gravy for that babes....an then the everyday bills.. an decent nosh... not gravy babes... bloody gud rich sauce!!!;)

[**Peg**]

...Got the pink slip 15 months ago and have been coasting ever since. Now I want to do the "shit slide" thing. I'm going back to school and picking up a trade. Going to become an electrician. I'm just scared that, at 42, I'm too old :(.

Any input would be much appreciated.

Take THIS to the bank: my plumber and electrician are both millionaires. Trades are where it's at in Canada, mikey: they are screaming for plumbers, electricians, carpenters.

BTW at 42 you have more life ahead of you than behind...my X didn't start working until he was 40 and he's retiring now with a fat government pension, OAS AND CPP. HANG IN THERE and good luck :)

[void()]

"I had to groan and chuckle at the same time because on the radio the other day I heard that since Alabama enacted one of those tough new "immigration" laws the farmers that own the land there are worried their crops aren't going to get picked. Supposedly the "illegal" workers were going to be deported to make room for unemployed Americans. The trouble with that is that no "American" wants to do that type of work because it's "too hard" .. and they certainly don't want to do it for what those farmers can afford to pay - although everyone still expects everything to be as inexpensive as possible in the store."

We had this discussion before. May need to restate a few points.

When I was working at Jolly Apple's(fictionalized name) fixing bins, the hourly rate was $7.25. We could get roughly 17 miles per gallon in our truck. Coming and going was 40 miles a day. Gas prices kept climbing, still do. This does not count insurance, maintenance on the vehicle. When you work out an average paycheck of $350 every two weeks against gas needed, $175 went to gas.

In essence this meant I was only earning roughly $4 an hour, at a private sector job doing manual labor. When I worked at the place for the disabled, less was made as only $4 per hour was average. Even then, you were not guaranteed to have work everyday, merely an opportunity. They made you wait four hours, paid you for one if there was no work.

Farmers probably can not afford paying better than minimum wage. There is also no insurance benefits. Of course, there were no benefits at Jolly Apple's either, even after the French company bought them out.

One could point out as man & wife we could both work. Yes in all fairness we could. Also in all fairness we could not be married, not enjoy spending time with one another, not be. It skipped ridiculous, went right on to ludicrous.

[gfofbiguy]

I chose "gravy train" but I don't look at it like that. I get to work from home *yay* - I type medical transcription. But that really isn't as good as it sounds - I work 12-14 or 15 hour days, six or seven days a week, less work coming in and other times overloaded, 24-hour turnaround, more work going overseas (yes, your medical records are being typed in India and other nations) or voice recognition. I see the writing on the wall. I am hoping to stay here until the bitter end, but am looking at my other options now as well. We shall see.

[pepperjack]

Backbone perhaps, yet as I'm sure we've all seen, backs oft bear far too much for far too little. No, this is not a pity parade. It is what it is. At forty I had thought "gee, a home for me and wife." Guess Carlin is right, the American dream is some thug robbing you while you sleep.

That aside, I'm of mind to change the way I play the game. May not be able to draw the cards I need, but can play hearts instead of poker and vise versa, maybe even play fortuna while the dealer plays blackjack.

You have no idea how timely & appropriate the 1st sentence of your post is for me right now! I'm tempted to think of it as an uncanny coincidence. I'm also presently pretty disillusioned; your right, it's not a pity parade but calling a spade a spade.

[mikey3000]

I don't necessarily think office work = gravy train and blue collar work = shit slide anymore. For almost twenty years I granted credit in one form or another and did nothing but review contracts and credit apps. I've seen medical doctors make less than $50 kpa and 23 y/o tool & die makers make $143 kpa working at ford. There are no more rules anymore. Just do what you enjoy. For me I got sick of sitting in an office answering phones and emails all day long. Zzzzz...

[pepperjack]

"I had to groan and chuckle at the same time because on the radio the other day I heard that since Alabama enacted one of those tough new "immigration" laws the farmers that own the land there are worried their crops aren't going to get picked. Supposedly the "illegal" workers were going to be deported to make room for unemployed Americans. The trouble with that is that no "American" wants to do that type of work because it's "too hard" .. and they certainly don't want to do it for what those farmers can afford to pay - although everyone still expects everything to be as inexpensive as possible in the store."

We had this discussion before. May need to restate a few points.

When I was working at Jolly Apple's(fictionalized name) fixing bins, the hourly rate was $7.25. We could get roughly 17 miles per gallon in our truck. Coming and going was 40 miles a day. Gas prices kept climbing, still do. This does not count insurance, maintenance on the vehicle. When you work out an average paycheck of $350 every two weeks against gas needed, $175 went to gas.

In essence this meant I was only earning roughly $4 an hour, at a private sector job doing manual labor. When I worked at the place for the disabled, less was made as only $4 per hour was average. Even then, you were not guaranteed to have work everyday, merely an opportunity. They made you wait four hours, paid you for one if there was no work.

Farmers probably can not afford paying better than minimum wage. There is also no insurance benefits. Of course, there were no benefits at Jolly Apple's either, even after the French company bought them out.

One could point out as man & wife we could both work. Yes in all fairness we could. Also in all fairness we could not be married, not enjoy spending time with one another, not be. It skipped ridiculous, went right on to ludicrous.

Drove a "Honey Wagon" once for awhile; know what that is? literally a "shitty" job, but somebody had to do it. Learned, adapted, handled it well; Upside was a lot of personal freedom, nobody on my back during the day trying to exert unnecessary control; took my lunch breaks sitting on a picnic table near a lake, basking in the tranquil, scenic beauty with that truck way the hell in the background; pay just got me by; survival; but to this day, I remember the contentment of that lunch break.

[bityme]

I've couldn't make a choice either. I've been through them all at least a couple of times. If it had been available, I might have selected "All of the above."

Viet Nam ended a promising Marine Corps career way to early. Back to school again to become a professional 'cause the mind was better than the body. Working too hard and too much took it's toll and had to stop. Back to school again for another "ticket" in a less stressful, yet still professional job. But the damage the body endures is cumulative.

I'm not sure that early retirement can really be classified as "Gravy Train." I'm comfortable as a result of some prior planning and some lucky breaks, but living now on 20% of what I was making 20 years ago is not what I originally planned.

Turns out that, having left the "rat race," the things I truly enjoy are well within my budget. I can take care of myself and my soon-to-be wife and have the time to enjoy life together. What more can I ask for? Perhaps that does mean I'm still on the "Gravy Train."


I chose "gravy train" but I don't look at it like that. I get to work from home *yay* - I type medical transcription. But that really isn't as good as it sounds - I work 12-14 or 15 hour days, six or seven days a week, less work coming in and other times overloaded, 24-hour turnaround, more work going overseas (yes, your medical records are being typed in India and other nations) or voice recognition. I see the writing on the wall. I am hoping to stay here until the bitter end, but am looking at my other options now as well. We shall see.

gtogbiguy,

Check out a program called "Dragon Naturally Speaking." They have a medical version that, while a little pricy, is probably the best on the market. You can set it up to play the dictation into the program. You can set up more than one computer and have them doing transcriptions that you then proofread. It is even possible to set up the program on an external USB drive. You could have each drive you set up assigned to a different physician and the program can be tailored to recognize that particular voice.

It might give you the possibility of working less hours, yet being more productive and being able to enjoy life more. Long hours, no time off, and the stress of meeting deadlines can be just as bad as back-breaking physical labor. Hope you find that program, or something like it, will work for you.

Best of Luck,

Pappy

[socalcurious]

Blue collar here.

I am a union Building Inspector. I guess I border on Gravy train tho. I inspect structural building components while others sweat and bust their ass doing the work for relatively the same pay. Potential income of 6 figures with only a 2 year degree. I say potential because the job market sucks right now.

[elian]

We had this discussion before. May need to restate a few points.


Yes we have. I tried to tell you about that truck, I used to own one of them - it's a wonderful vehicle - it can carry a lot of stuff and it really hauls err.."butt" but it sucks down gas like a crack fiend.. Even so, I think the truck has served you well hopefully.

I don't want to tell you what to do because ultimately it's not my job to judge how you live your life. Millions of partners every day both work, and they manage to find time to both work and love each other..your situation may be a little different, I really don't know because I only know what you know and you don't know yet.

It actually hurt reading what you wrote yesterday, I'm sorry we've grown so far apart..regardless of whether you have wealth or not love is always there, grace CAN always be there but I'll understand if you don't want to drink the kool-aid anymore...it's just that I've been through depression before and I'll do just about anything I can to avoid putting myself through that again. For most of my life I've gone through cycles of elation and self-loathing, a lot of it having to do with poor self image.

You control your self image, not anyone else..you may not have a lot of wealth but life is still a gift and you're only "poor of spirit" if you think that you are..no matter what ANYONE else says.

I'm trying to do about four times what I normally do at this point between the house, work, relationships and other things - I rolled ubuntu back to 10.04 because I just can't stand the new UI - it's soo slow...I literally fell asleep at the keyboard last night waiting for the updates to load - I'm loading about 4 PC's each for different folk.

Everywhere I look there is so much pain in the world. Someone tried to come here and comfort or counsel me or something last night and I didn't care - I fought them tooth and nail to just leave me alone. I am living in my own little delusional world, thinking that all people have worth, that all people have potential and can do good...it's a message that is SORELY missed right now by a lot of people. I KNOW what it's like to be suicidal - people deserve better than to die alone, thinking they are worthless.

I'm not letting ANYONE tell me any different, at least until I bear my vision into the world. Once that is done then fine, the universe can have its way with me..

[Hephaestion]

Now a retired old age pensioner I press my nose and drool down the window panes of resturants where the younger little piggies inside are rolling around in filthy ecstacy.

As an OAP I am now a non-person. I am a drain on the resources of the country and will eventually become so of the medical system or of waste disposal.

My future pleasures in life will be to sneeze on the takeaways of the affluent with my effluent. Given an opportunity I shall curl up in a corner of the salons of the wealthy and smell.

[darkeyes]

I KNOW what it's like to be suicidal - people deserve better than to die alone, thinking they are worthless.

I'm not letting ANYONE tell me any different, at least until I bear my vision into the world. Once that is done then fine, the universe can have its way with me..

Everyone has worth Elian. No matter how worthless our lives seem to us to have been.. we all have worth.

If we have brought a smile to the face of a single child and nothing else, then we have worth. If out of goodness we do a kindness for another, whether or not that person is more or less fortunate than ourselves we have worth. If just once in our lives we try to alleviate the suffering a another creature, we have shown we have worth. If we are loved by a single person in our pitiful existence, we have worth, and if we love just one person, we have worth. Even those who have no apparent worth, are not entirely worthless. People who have done awful things, or have lived the lives of parasite.. they all have worth.. so how much more worth is there in a person such as yourself who loves so deeply and feels such concern about our world and the mess we create, who offers and gives of himself to this world..

..no one should die alone Elian, and feeling worthless. You are right. People often die alone feeling just that.. and the truth of the matter is, they just shouldnt have to.. even the worst of us..:) We all have worth... even if the only worthy act we ever do is to place a comforting hand on the shoulder of a friend, hug him and whisper in his ear "you are not worthless".

[darkeyes]

Now a retired old age pensioner I press my nose and drool down the window panes of resturants where the younger little piggies inside are rolling around in filthy ecstacy.

As an OAP I am now a non-person. I am a drain on the resources of the country and will eventually become so of the medical system or of waste disposal.

My future pleasures in life will be to sneeze on the takeaways of the affluent with my effluent. Given an opportunity I shall curl up in a corner of the salons of the wealthy and smell.

..:eek:poo stinky..

...sounds pretty worthy 2 me Heph.. tee hee:bigrin:

[void()]

"I'm sorry we've grown so far apart..regardless of whether you have
wealth or not love is always there, grace CAN always be there but I'll
understand if you don't want to drink the kool-aid anymore. You control
your self image, not anyone else..you may not have a lot of wealth but
life is still a gift and you're only "poor of spirit" if you think that
you are..no matter what ANYONE else says. I KNOW what it's like to be
suicidal - people deserve better than to die alone, thinking they are
worthless."

I had a whole slew of pretty words gathered round as a storm cloud,
lightning bolts set to hurtle to Earth. Then in the eye of the squall,
came a whisper chiding like wings of gossamer scratching together. Only
you and she can do this. You both draw up the bow, don't bother to aim,
yet sink shank and nock dead on.

And I truly do hate you both for it. Please understand though, that hate
comes from a deeper font of love. I am incapable of hating anyone, or
anything I cannot love. You and she ought know this, in fact I believe
you do and use it to bind me. I'll soon need to change the shield and
sword.

How dare you remind me that control is mine? Asshole. Don't you smile at
me Mr. I am still not drinking the kool-aid. I remember Jim Jones after
all. And you say we've grown apart? Thanks for the doubt. Excuse me,
need to go live my suicide. Yes, that's a joke.

Yes, you did advise on the truck and it has indeed served well. In truth I'm not greatly upset it uses gas as it does. It is paid for, can afford a little gas. The point being as gas goes up so does everything else. And one cannot make a living off the minimum wage. This isn't a zero sum only about the cost of gas, it's a more far reaching argument ultimately resolved in the issue of control.

Society has dictated those with money have control. Those without money lack control. You're either a serf, or noble. There is nothing wrong in either path in and of itself. What is onerous lies in the noble class oppressing the serfs and committing atrocities in the name of the serfs. Serfs are tired of the oppression and slander, desire more control. Well look here, that means they require more money.

We both acknowledge power corrupts and absolute power absolutely so. And power via control is what the idea of money grants. Now, the serfs are ready for tanking an idea which does not work. Control needs to lie with each individual, not with some corrupt entity whom oppresses and destroys life for gain. So, let's remove money from the equation.

All you have are people whom as you rightly state, die. We all live and die. That's a universal fact. Yes, we've control over death but only to a degree. Even money does not barter control over death. It may help purchase more pleasant means of dying, yet one still dies.

Without money, those whom do now have control of the pleasantries and atrocities, lose control. The control goes to everyone and no one. We are back to the basic template, equal.

I need to pause here to say you ought to read _If_ by Kipling. That is a code. Serves well, too.

Being equal then is the goal. As the title of my thread implies, we all need balance. And that's why I was asking. Needed a way to see clear through all the fancy words dolled up and out walking the streets. And here you go playing Robin Hood, jolly lark. Thank you for it. Sorry to have 'not got it' as quickly as the rest. Do it hard, rough or go home. *sigh* I'm dense.



* NB:

Feel a need to explain something here. I may seem a wretch for speaking to elian as I do here in public. Please understand I am not intent on so being. When we are together, he oft goes on at length in speaking. Which is fine and I love him the more for it. I on the other hand maul things over at length before speaking. At times I feel this grants disadvantage in what needs said by one in not being heard or realized.

So, whilst one runs up the ramparts, another waits in the forest bidding proper time. And it seems there never is proper time. In conversing here with him, I make time. It isn't that I'm a wretch, hold grudges, trash elian or my wife. I don't as it isn't my nature. But I do speak to them, do love them, hate them, love them more. I'm just passionate and need to sort things out for a bit prior to opening my gob. Lots to weigh. Best to describe me is the line, "quiet storm in a teacup".

Don't like breaking china despite being the bull.

[elian]

Well, in the same message I tried to tell you that I'm not trying to judge your life, I'm only pointing out that if you don't think you have any control, that could be a fallacy.

The Kennedy family is a very powerful political family in the US, yet despite all of their money. wealth and power that family has experienced a great amount of misery - therefore although I believe it's critical to have money, at least enough to pay debts - I do not believe that money itself is the key to happiness.

Since you are an adult I won't TELL you what to do. I can only go by my own experience..and my own experience included suicidal thoughts - sorry if it seemed like I was projecting that onto you..my mistake.

Completely unrelated link I've been meaning to send you anyway..

http://youtu.be/QXiEN-9UplQ

When he speaks of love, don't forget to love yourself. It's actually a painful speech to listen to... When he talks about wondering why you have to pay water bills - well - it does take work to get the water out of the ground and clean it - but I get it, I get what he is saying.

I've seen places like this in dreams, a society that isn't based on marketing, it's hard to remember what it was like, I try not to think of it because THIS is my reality, whether I like it or not..

Unfortunately, with speeches like this, it is easy to see why he's not here with us today.

Signing off now, I think I'll go out into the REAL world and just take a walk.

[tenni]

I have to wonder if it is the grass looks greener on the other side question?

artist here...professional but the arts are poooor.:tong: Usually, requires a day job on top of being an artist...all the arts.

[mikey3000]

Yay!!!!! Tenni's back!!!!

[void()]

I have to wonder if it is the grass looks greener on the other side question?

artist here...professional but the arts are poooor.:tong: Usually, requires a day job on top of being an artist...all the arts.

There really isn't a question involved regarding that. Pretty obvious to see an answer. A lot has been obvious. I merely have not been seeing. Now, I do thanks in part to this thread. The void is crossed.

[void()]

Ought to condemn tenni yet in so doing would condemn self.


That’s the most important thing about it: nobody tells you what to do, nobody tells you what to buy. There’s no other way to arrange things where that kind of freedom is nearly as substantial. The question then is: are people actually liberated by all this freedom? A study came out more than ten years ago, that actually showed that when you give people too much choice, instead of being liberated, they get paralyzed.

There’s no canonical form of intimate relations—you get to decide, and you get to change your mind. You’re not shackled the way your parents or your grandparents were, what could be better? It just turns out that when you give people this kind of unconstrained opportunity to reinvent themselves, they don’t know what to do. Or if they do it, they look over their shoulders, convinced that they’ve made the wrong decisions, made the wrong career move, the wrong romantic choices and so on. So you are plagued with doubt, you are always dissatisfied with whatever you’ve chosen because just around the corner there’s a better option.

Cite (http://theeuropean-magazine.com/398-schwartz-barry/397-decision-making-and-economics)


Nice summary of what I been feeling over two decades, if not most of four. The article is a good read. Only highlighted what I saw as pertaining here. Amplify me by a generation or two and I think understanding about a movement created by Ad-busters comes into view. We're tired of this crazy living made by previous generations. Yes, we're grateful of advances made. No, we aren't happy to be entrapped with choice as the article describes.

Further, we're not happy that while paralyzed, big greed and corruption robbed us blind. We object to slavery and abuse. Past generations tell us, "all you now, kids." So, we step up and everyone bitches, tells us how good we got it, tells us it's our fault if we don't. Yes, it was our fault to not be on guard. It was yours for not teaching us to be.

[RavenEye]

I work at Wal-Mart but I'm 19 and in college so I have an excuse.


Retired music producer. Gravy train.
So I'm going to school for screen writing and directing. I have found out that I'm not a pretty good lyricist. How would I go about sending my works to studios?

[æonpax]

Difficult.....


http://i.imgur.com/jc9Bl.jpg

[void()]

Æon,

Your statement offers me a bit of delight. It would seem you enjoy playing with coffin nails, or rather, have a sense of the macabre. Had wondered as a passing curiosity.

Often curious about many things here. They say it helps one avoid ravages of Alzheimer's to keep the mind engaged. Grandfather on dad's side, grandmother on mother's side had/have it. Skips a generation, further understand those more intelligent get it worse. Grandma has lovely fits of dementia to boot.

Hordes of lovely stuff for me play with later on. "Oh joy, oh joy! Lard be praised!" :bigrin: Thank you for revealing that facet of yourself. Not a trait still held with any reverence. But then not all the salmon swim up stream either.

Be at peace.


Post Script: (Notes in the margins from some daft bugger claiming to care.)

Going to schedule meeting at local college regarding education for Linux systems administrator, next week. Not quite sure it's 'path' for me as it appears to contort one so they become someone different. That aside, good money in it. Further, will be able to continue writing if so desired. Do think writing may be the path as i can get seriously engrossed in the beauty of the letter a, or drawn in by the come hither look of a p. This is probably some form of logo fetish which needs not see public light, but I love conversing Sheldon when reading him. Yes, I know, I'm a sick puppy. Call me Jubal Hershaw, grok?

[pepperjack]

Æon,

Your statement offers me a bit of delight. It would seem you enjoy playing with coffin nails, or rather, have a sense of the macabre. Had wondered as a passing curiosity.

Often curious about many things here. They say it helps one avoid ravages of Alzheimer's to keep the mind engaged. Grandfather on dad's side, grandmother on mother's side had/have it. Skips a generation, further understand those more intelligent get it worse. Grandma has lovely fits of dementia to boot.

Hordes of lovely stuff for me play with later on. "Oh joy, oh joy! Lard be praised!" :bigrin: Thank you for revealing that facet of yourself. Not a trait still held with any reverence. But then not all the salmon swim up stream either.

Be at peace.


Post Script: (Notes in the margins from some daft bugger claiming to care.)

Going to schedule meeting at local college regarding education for Linux systems administrator, next week. Not quite sure it's 'path' for me as it appears to contort one so they become someone different. That aside, good money in it. Further, will be able to continue writing if so desired. Do think writing may be the path as i can get seriously engrossed in the beauty of the letter a, or drawn in by the come hither look of a p. This is probably some form of logo fetish which needs not see public light, but I love conversing Sheldon when reading him. Yes, I know, I'm a sick puppy. Call me Jubal Hershaw, grok? "The first draft of anything is shit!" ---Ernest Hemingway

[void()]

"The first draft of anything is shit!" ---Ernest Hemingway

ROFLMAO! Exactly. I also like Walter Gibson, Most authors found at Pulp Net (http://www.thepulp.net/), Edward Stratemeyer, Charles Dickens, Lovecraft, Poe, Wells, Castanada, Shakespeare, Lustbadder, Shelly, Conan Doyle. Been adapting Lester Dent's Master Pulp Plot with Campbell's Hero's Journey, blended into a Cozy, despite Dashiell Hammett interfering with his bloody Poisonville. Used to enjoy Verne until recently, tried reading his works again to no avail. Possibly a sign of sheer madness on this end, but at least I have fun. :)

[æonpax]

Æon,<snipped for brevity>


"I wanted a perfect ending. Now I've learned,
the hard way,
that some poems don't rhyme,
and some stories don't have a clear
beginning,
middle,
and end.
Life is about not knowing,
having to change,
taking the moment and making the best of it,
without knowing what's going to happen next.
Delicious ambiguity."

[Long Duck Dong]

lol am I white collar or blue collar, or is it discoloured from all the sweat....

I left school at 14, first job was stacking timber and helping at a job site bar ( thats where I made a lot of money that I invested from the job and when I was made redundant....)

next job was working on and supervisoring a organic garden business, also brick and cement laying, mechanic, tool fixer and that led to a job as a handyman on a marae ( maori meeting house ) as gardener, carpenter, electrician, supervisor....

left there, started first business as a opossum trapper and hunter, bush guide, search and research team....

started on a part as a counsellor, therapist, advisor and youth worker that was to continue for the next 20 years....

did a stint in the army.... then onto a job as a truck driver, doing nights as a LGBT barman / bouncer and youth aid street worker on my nights off....
got roped into a stint as a builder, carpenter, mechanic, wielder, supervisor

started second business as a handyman with other friends....sold my share in that, and invested the money... again.... was working nights as head cook in a takeaway bar....

started 3rd business as a naturalist healer, advisor and spiritualist, and teaching martial arts .....

contracted out to a number of outfits and places, doing things like outfitting shops, buildings, businesses etc, driver etc

contracted out to another organic farm as head worker, paperwork boss, driver....

went on to a piggery as manual labour, worked way up to supervisor, handled driving, carpentery, wielding, stock management......

left there, contracted out to other places yet again......

trained in computer tech, website design, spread sheeting, graphic arts, digitial arts, started another business....
at the same time I was running and managing a vineyard contracting business as head driver, supervisor, payroll clerk, contract manager, head rousabout

lol and thats the short list......there is so much more I have done,..... but am I white collar or blue collar..... I have no real idea... I just consider myself, very experienced at making it look like I am actually good at something.....

been at the top and at the bottom, invested more than enuf money to keep me happy and well off.... but invested it in my friends and their businesses and housing... so I have a net worth that looks good on paper.... lol


I guess if there is anything that all the working and different jobs has taught me, its that I hate money..... pay would interrupt a 6 day stretch of being broke.. and weeks where I was pocketing $800+ a week, did not bring me the happiness that I thought it would.... quess I will never understand how people think that having money makes life easier when all it does is pay the bills and buy the food and tempt you to buy shit you do not really need......

currently on a invalids pension... but still working... fixing computers, moving lawns, repairing shit, helping the elderly.... and finally, I realised that happiness is not having a fist full of money.... happiness for me, is knowing that other people can have somebody do something for them, without holding their hand out for a fistful of dollars, but a cup of coffee and a willingness to chat.......

the bills are paid, there is food in the cupboards, a roof over my head.... but more importantly, there are smiles on faces.... and that is far better to me than all the money I have made over the years

[void()]

I will never understand how people think that having money makes life easier when all it does is pay the bills and buy the food and tempt you to buy shit you do not really need......


My wife is not the type of broad what wears dresses. She prefers jeans and t-shirt. There are a few nice sets of clothes for her, worn on special occasions.

Even knowing she isn't a fan of wearing dresses, it would still do wonders for my self esteem to buy her something which had a brand label, costing over $100 and see her wear it without shame. This I realize is merely an issue of self image. My perception, says "if you love someone you can buy them extremely nice things", "a true man can afford whatever the cost to pamper a lover even if only a moment."

And yes, lovers oft rebuff these feelings I have of not being able to give them something nice. "I only want to enjoy spending time with you", they say. Which I do appreciate but at the same time still desire to be able to afford a nice treat once in a while.

That isn't really happiness though. I can do without it. Might be nice to feel able, maybe someday ...

I began work at age five. Tended our family garden, which was actually a one acre plot. Step dad would sleep in his recliner on weekends between bouts of beating me and shouting out hundreds of things to be all done at once. Lots of choice expletives ensued, fists upon fists, heels upon heels.

At age seven his father took all of us grandchildren out for a week. We cut corn with hand held corn knives, all day, sun up to sun down. Each of us earned a nickel a day, thirty five cents for a week of labor. He did it to instill a sense of appreciating labor and inspire a strong work ethic.

Helped him round cattle, used to help geld steers, would milk cows both by hand and by automatic. All the grandchildren ate raw beef, drank unpasteurized milk because Paw-paw didn't want us to ever get sick off it. And our exposure worked, too. We even munched rock salt, learned to shoot it out of a 12ga shotgun. Learned to bring charging bulls under control.

When fifteen I got my first 'public' job. Worked in local branch of a national fast food chain. The company had a plan for cleanliness in their stores. It would have meant passing health inspections with 98% every time in a matter of five years. Took me three months to bring our restaurant up to that, even surprise inspections got 98%. Held an A++ rating for cleanliness and service for two years. Our drive through window was three times quicker and 100 times more accurate than a national competitor's.

Did it matter? Not enough. I put up with being lied to about the work, being paid $4.25 an hour for two years. I "moved" like nobody's business. Then, I left there, worked poultry plant for about a year, $6.00 an hour.

During summer break from school, I worked a whole three day and two night shift in the poultry plant. Would have kept on but the big boss found out, something about Feds, safety, and me being only seventeen. Good money there but shitty work, shitty environment. Still "moved" too.

After that I went back to the burger joint a bit, then on to another place up in the next town. It was a retail temp job, we set up product displays. that led into working in the in store restaurant, buss boy, dishwasher, cook, stock handler and at one point temporary manager.

Then on to another burger dive, this time I wound up working between two different ones under the same owner. I kept "moving", created business for the guy, kept it steady and going hot, two years. Then decided it was time for something 'real', joined the navy.

Only had one month beyond boot camp. Had some other experience though when I visited my dad. That was never 'put on the books', probably never will be. Navy sent me home for whatever reason got in their crawl, and no I wasn't a discipline problem.

Back to burger joint, find out I can't handle too many people after serving. Start having panic attacks, wind up passed out on the floor, brought around with salt and sugar laden Pepsi. Manager says, "take twenty minutes, guy. You want I should call the squad? You get up before twenty minutes, I will."
Figure out anger is also something of an issue, due to the social claustrophobia, anxiety. I start getting afraid, Mr. anger starts peeking out.

Buy a Crapard Hell computer with illicit gains from burger joint. Start sloshing poetry into it. Eventually end up with over 200 or so poems in a collection. Get published via a vanity press, which I did not know was vanity until later. Start meeting folks via irc, and chat room which was later bought by Lycos, then later completely wiped out. Used ICQ, met future Mrs., we talked about three months. I never had seen her, no pictures, asked her to marry because she mistakenly called me her boyfriend one evening. :)

Anger triggers high blood pressure, I unwittingly had for years. Learned of while working at Johnny Apple place, lobbing around 200lb wooden apple bins all day five days a week. I churned out 30 repaired bins daily average, compared to a fellow of Hispanic decent doing only 2 a day. And my work was solid, good, if not better quality than his at least as good. That was $7.85hrly, no benefits, 'seasonal' labor on an at will basis.

Presently, going to schedule a meet at a local community college. Find out if it will serve me good in attaining a degree and certification for Linux System administration. Have a new computer, built on knock off parts. Run Ubuntu Lucid Lynx currently. If college seems too much hassle for me, may opt for certification exams available on-line for a reasonable fee.

Tired of years ending and figuring only a $7-13K net. It lets you scrape by. There's more to living than surviving, though. And if a little extra money helps buy a few nice things, needed or not, and that somehow provides a little feel good, so be it. But in all honesty over the past five years the cost of living has gone up over something like %42. You need more to just survive, never mind any luxury.

I'm not saying money buys happiness. But it does offer a little more lube. And lube is nice. :)

[pepperjack]

ROFLMAO! Exactly. I also like Walter Gibson, Most authors found at Pulp Net (http://www.thepulp.net/), Edward Stratemeyer, Charles Dickens, Lovecraft, Poe, Wells, Castanada, Shakespeare, Lustbadder, Shelly, Conan Doyle. Been adapting Lester Dent's Master Pulp Plot with Campbell's Hero's Journey, blended into a Cozy, despite Dashiell Hammett interfering with his bloody Poisonville. Used to enjoy Verne until recently, tried reading his works again to no avail. Possibly a sign of sheer madness on this end, but at least I have fun. :)

Something I read once about the profile of a typical writer: he/she began as a prolific reader. I also have a love for the power of the written word ( an unsolved mystery for me...God referred to as The Word); you might want to look at TheLongRidgeWritersGroup; excellent school; I was a student there.