How to be Monogamish ?

[trentino]

Monogamish is a term coined by Dan Savage, I believe. Some of you may be familiar with his work with the Savage Love column in the Stranger magazine.

Anyhow, I finally worked-up the courage to come out as bisexual to my wife with the kind support and encouragement of many members of this site.

Now, in the interest of moving things forward, I'd like to know how YOU manage your open relationship. Is it a situation wherein you discuss all of your moves with your partner beforehand, or is it more an open door policy where you can choose to share your experiences afterward or not ? I'm not interested in being sneaky, going behind my wife's back. Do you have guidelines for what you and your partner can and cannot do with respective paramours ?

We've discussed and have both expressed interest in opening up our marriage to extra-marital adventures and the thought of it has enhanced our sexlife immensely. However, in practice we find the situation much more delicate than in theory.

She is interested in having flings with other men, while I'm mostly interested in finding male fuckbuddies to quench my thirst for cocksucking and assfucking from time-to-time. I'd like to experience other women, of course, but my wife is very satisfying and the priority for me is to engage in gay sex. I'd love to share a man with her, too, but that seems like an even more delicate situation emotionally and logistically !

Thank you very much for any advice and information !

[Long Duck Dong]

ok I am in a long distance monogamous relationship so our circumstances are different to the average couple, but our strength is in that we communicate more in some aspects, as we have to deal with more issues than most couples....

the difficult thing for us, is we both have to deal with issues separately but as a couple...and that does include issues like me being bisexual, as I am around people a lot and there is a lot of temptation, so I tend to plan ahead with issues, and talk with DD about what attracts me, what I react to, and if anything happened, how it would happen etc etc....

we have already talked about the 2 people ( female and male ) that I would go with if I was in a situation of * slipping * and why and while DD is semi ok with a male, she is not as accepting with a female....

the trouble for both of us, is that I suffer from dystimia, which is a form of permanent low level depression but it can dissolve into chronic depression and it may be linked to the asexual nature, it may not, but I am more likely to end up in bed and in the arms of another person when I am deeply depressive than if I am at a normal depressive level......

we have a open relationship in the respects that if either of us was to end up in the bed of another person, its fine..... but we have not given permission to each other to do it.... we have a understanding that it can happen, its not always something you can preplan or predirect, so we both planned ahead...... a bit like the few drinks too many and a spur of the moment decision type thing

we just do not have any set plans to be open with the relationship so its interesting, lol as I do have a few people that are very interested in me as a ongoing consideration.....and that has led to me and DD talking at length about many issues connected with that.....

another issue is that for me, I do not handle the one night side / casual sex thing that well, I am more emotionally / mentally attracted to people and perfer long term contact with people.... so its not really about having sex for me... its more about sharing hugs, kisses and the simple things in life, like the cooking etc etc.....

so yeah, its not really a open relationship in regards to sex etc like most people think of with a open relationship etc.....and cos of that the issues we deal with are different and in some cases uniquely different to sexual open relationships.... but the reason I am sharing in this thread, is to show that its easy to break it down to sex / love with open relationships.... but its more than just who you sleep with...... there is the emotional / mental aspects of interaction with people and oh course, with your own partner........

so yeah, me and DD have talked our asses off, explored more than most people do with closed / open / closed exclusive relationships, cos we have had to.... and sometimes thats what people need to do.... talk and explore all the options, not just the sexual open relationship but the possibility of a emotional / mental open relationship / poly relationship.......

cos you just never know if things may develop into more than just sex.....

[trentino]

Thanks Long Duck - interesting !!

[mikey3000]

We've discussed and have both expressed interest in opening up our marriage to extra-marital adventures and the thought of it has enhanced our sexlife immensely. However, in practice we find the situation much more delicate than in theory.



All I can add is tread very carefully. Once you open this Pandora's Box, there is no going back. Your marriage will definitely change.

[Jobelorocks]

The trick is to come up with a set of rules that you and your partner are okay with. Some people have the open door policy, some have more strict rules. My husband and I both swing (He is straight and I am bi). We only play with other people with our spouse in the room (watching is half the fun for us). We prefer getting together with other couples, but sometimes we do get together with singles. But, the big thing is just come up with a set of rules that you are both comfortable with. Sometimes people want to know about who their spouse is meeting with, some don't care.... Sometimes the spouse wants to be present and/or participate, while some don't. It is all up to you. Communication is key. We also have a word that we say if we ever get uncomfortable with what is happening and everyone would in theory stop (we haven't encountered this yet).

[trentino]

Thanks Mikey and Jobelo. Very informative information about the rules. I agree. Communication is everything. Wish us luck !! =)

[BiDaveDtown]

Dan Savage is a self-centered embarrassment.

Mr. Savage himself is the worst spokesman the gay/GLBT community can ask for. He should stick to offering shitty advice on how to cheat on your partner, and stop pretending he has anything intelligent to say on matters of institutional or political importance. He's not even that good at giving people sex or relationship advice and he's not an expert on human sexuality
at all.

Dan Savage makes lots more money by saying controversial things. He does not simply have anopinion about non-monogamy, he strongly pushes it any chance he gets. It is part of his money making brand, just like always wearing a T-shirt, and making himself Mother Teresa with “It
gets better�.

On Dan Savage, I certainly don’t want him representing gay men or all GLBT people. Who the fuck appointed him?

If he wishes to be a media whore, he should represent himself under the Dan Savage banner, not the gay rights/GLBT rights banner, and as biphobic and transphobic as he is he should be the last person running any sort of project against bullying for GLBT youth all while he tells actual bisexual youth/teens and young adults that they're not really bisexual and that they're going to eventually come out as gay/lesbian. He also completely supported the studies by that asshole Dr. J. Michael Bailey who is transphobic, homophobic, and biphobic.

Dan Savage also started the whole "It gets better" project not because he and his partner actually care about GLBT youth or young adults but because they wanted to self promote, get a reality TV show on MTV, and if you think that Dan Savage actually cares about anyone but himself you haven't been paying attention. He completely supported the 2nd Iraq war!

The "It gets better" project does not seem to be working I read post here about a gay young man who did an IGB video and had supportive parents yet he was bullied and killed himself. Rest in peace.

The more Savage opens his mouth, the less interested I am in what comes out of it.

[JP1986UM]

Thanks BDD, I am sure your analysis of Dan Savage was exactly what the OP was looking for a critical analysis of Dan Savage and not exploration of Open Relationships.

To the OP:
Read Tristan Taormino's book Open to start.

Work from there.

[bityme]

Monogamish is a term coined by Dan Savage, I believe. Some of you may be familiar with his work with the Savage Love column in the Stranger magazine.

Anyhow, I finally worked-up the courage to come out as bisexual to my wife with the kind support and encouragement of many members of this site.

Now, in the interest of moving things forward, I'd like to know how YOU manage your open relationship. Is it a situation wherein you discuss all of your moves with your partner beforehand, or is it more an open door policy where you can choose to share your experiences afterward or not ? I'm not interested in being sneaky, going behind my wife's back. Do you have guidelines for what you and your partner can and cannot do with respective paramours ?

We've discussed and have both expressed interest in opening up our marriage to extra-marital adventures and the thought of it has enhanced our sexlife immensely. However, in practice we find the situation much more delicate than in theory.

She is interested in having flings with other men, while I'm mostly interested in finding male fuckbuddies to quench my thirst for cocksucking and assfucking from time-to-time. I'd like to experience other women, of course, but my wife is very satisfying and the priority for me is to engage in gay sex. I'd love to share a man with her, too, but that seems like an even more delicate situation emotionally and logistically !

Thank you very much for any advice and information !

Opening your marital relationship to allow having sexual experiences is a delicate issue. From the sexual side, the satisfaction of the parties will depend on how enjoyable the outside experience is. From the emotional side, that same satisfaction can become a time bomb.

The biggest fears I have heard expressed is "Will the other person my spouse is with be better than me?"; "Will my spouse like them better?"; or "What if my spouse falls in love with the other person?"

The existence of such fears or apprehensions depend a lot upon the the strength of the couples relationship, not just sexually, but overall. If there is any marital discord, there is a greater chance a spouse will be apprehensive about the outside experiences of the other.

It will also be influenced by the manner in which the new freedom given each other take place. If the additional experiences only occur in the presence of and in participation with both spouses, there is an opportunity to observe and to a great extent have some control over the physical, and emotional, experience. For instance, if a couple have another bi male join them, during his play with the other male, the wife can help stimulate the husband also. While the additional male is playing with the wife, the husband can also participate. It works the same if the additional person is another female. This lessens the opportunities for the couple to make comparisons between the spouse and the additional person.

When the additional experience is together, it usually also means that the couple does not have social contact with the outside parties on their own. If the liaison is together, it is together both socially and sexually.

Having flings or affairs outside of the marital relationship usually produce the greatest anxiety. The context of the outside experience could be anything from just meeting for the sake of having sex to a full on dating experience.

My observation is that M2M contacts are usually for the sexual experience alone. If there is something of a social nature included it is usually non-romantic, like a ball game, round of golf, etc. I feel it is usually different with other combinations, however. Whether M2F, F2M or F2F, my observation is that the social contact is most often present, i.e., a date. Dinner, a movie, lunch and shopping, or similar situations all provide more opportunities for intimate contact to be integrated with the social experience.

Thus, the agreement that the open relationship allows individual outside flings or affairs has the greatest chance of providing disruption to the marriage. It is easier for questions to arise, whether founded or unfounded, in the mind of the non-dating spouse.

In my personal experience which is a little different than your because both of my wives were bi, we always had our additional experiences together. Whether the time was with another couple, or a single male or female, it was a shared experience. There was always the opportunity for us to participate to whatever extent we felt necessary to ensure it was an extension of, or adding spice to, our private intimate contact. It created the illusion, if not the actual fact, that the pleasure experienced with the additional partner(s) would not have been as good without the participation of both of us. It also avoided the possibility of a fling or affair becoming a "love affair" that would disrupt the marital relationship.

Whether you choose to structure a relationship similar to mine or a more open-door policy like you described, I think communication is the key element. The better your communication and the more shared your experiences are, the more stable your relationship will be. I would caution against any arrangement where all the other spouse is told is "I have a date tonight!" followed by an absence for a period of time.

It is the lack of communicating the experience, either by their presence or a full disclosure afterwards, that provides a breeding ground for questioning the marriage. Tension in the marriage can be caused by many different things, finances, children, relatives, employment problems or lack thereof, etc. If there is anything that is vaguely known but not fully disclosed, there is often a tendency to associate the undisclosed as a cause of the problem. It makes it very easy for "Honey, looks like we'll have to tighten our budget." to become "The only reason you want to tighten the budget is to have more money to spend on their friend. You don't love me any more."

It appears that you already have good communication going. Discuss what each of you are really looking for and as many possible ways of approaching it. You will eventually come to a decision that works and you feel will not produce a strain on your marital relationship.

Pappy

P.S. IMHO it is far more erotic to share the extra dick than to have it all to myself and there are a number ways to share it that are enjoyable for both of you.

[swmnkdinthervr]

Our approach to "Monogamish" :tong: is simple!

We don't have an open relationship, however we are both bi and in the "lifestyle" for lack of a better term!

We do maintain a totally monogamous relationship, we are totally in love with and devoted to each other completely. Your definition of monogamy seems to need some updating!!!

Our emotional relationship is the monogamy we share, we separate sexuality from love...one is physical the other emotional. True that sex with someone you love is the pinnacle of pleasure but sex with someone else is still great...and it doesn't have to be love to be sex!!!

A poor analogy but: If I have season tickets to the football game with my wife, sharing them with my neighbor won't get me divorced!!! If my neighbor gets to join both of us all the better!!!

[trentino]

All I can add is tread very carefully. Once you open this Pandora's Box, there is no going back. Your marriage will definitely change.

Thanks Mikey ! You seem to speak from experience ... can you elaborate ?:bigrin:

[trentino]

Our approach to "Monogamish" :tong: is simple!

We don't have an open relationship, however we are both bi and in the "lifestyle" for lack of a better term!

We do maintain a totally monogamous relationship, we are totally in love with and devoted to each other completely. Your definition of monogamy seems to need some updating!!!

Our emotional relationship is the monogamy we share, we separate sexuality from love...one is physical the other emotional. True that sex with someone you love is the pinnacle of pleasure but sex with someone else is still great...and it doesn't have to be love to be sex!!!

A poor analogy but: If I have season tickets to the football game with my wife, sharing them with my neighbor won't get me divorced!!! If my neighbor gets to join both of us all the better!!!

Thanks Swimmer ! Here's what I found : "Monogamy /Gr. μονός+γάμος (monos+gamos) - one+marriage/ a form of marriage in which an individual has only one spouse at any one time.[1] In current usage monogamy often refers to having one sexual partner irrespective of marriage or reproduction. The term is applied also to the social behavior of some animals, referring to the state of having only one mate at any one time.


But, I know what you mean. Yes, the idea is that my wife and I hold each other as closely as possible emotionally while expanding our horizons sexually. We both agree that sex doesn't necessarily have to have anything to with love. Thanks a lot for weighing in :bigrin:

[trentino]

Opening your marital relationship to allow having sexual experiences is a delicate issue. From the sexual side, the satisfaction of the parties will depend on how enjoyable the outside experience is. From the emotional side, that same satisfaction can become a time bomb.

The biggest fears I have heard expressed is "Will the other person my spouse is with be better than me?"; "Will my spouse like them better?"; or "What if my spouse falls in love with the other person?"

The existence of such fears or apprehensions depend a lot upon the the strength of the couples relationship, not just sexually, but overall. If there is any marital discord, there is a greater chance a spouse will be apprehensive about the outside experiences of the other.

It will also be influenced by the manner in which the new freedom given each other take place. If the additional experiences only occur in the presence of and in participation with both spouses, there is an opportunity to observe and to a great extent have some control over the physical, and emotional, experience. For instance, if a couple have another bi male join them, during his play with the other male, the wife can help stimulate the husband also. While the additional male is playing with the wife, the husband can also participate. It works the same if the additional person is another female. This lessens the opportunities for the couple to make comparisons between the spouse and the additional person.

When the additional experience is together, it usually also means that the couple does not have social contact with the outside parties on their own. If the liaison is together, it is together both socially and sexually.

Having flings or affairs outside of the marital relationship usually produce the greatest anxiety. The context of the outside experience could be anything from just meeting for the sake of having sex to a full on dating experience.

My observation is that M2M contacts are usually for the sexual experience alone. If there is something of a social nature included it is usually non-romantic, like a ball game, round of golf, etc. I feel it is usually different with other combinations, however. Whether M2F, F2M or F2F, my observation is that the social contact is most often present, i.e., a date. Dinner, a movie, lunch and shopping, or similar situations all provide more opportunities for intimate contact to be integrated with the social experience.

Thus, the agreement that the open relationship allows individual outside flings or affairs has the greatest chance of providing disruption to the marriage. It is easier for questions to arise, whether founded or unfounded, in the mind of the non-dating spouse.

In my personal experience which is a little different than your because both of my wives were bi, we always had our additional experiences together. Whether the time was with another couple, or a single male or female, it was a shared experience. There was always the opportunity for us to participate to whatever extent we felt necessary to ensure it was an extension of, or adding spice to, our private intimate contact. It created the illusion, if not the actual fact, that the pleasure experienced with the additional partner(s) would not have been as good without the participation of both of us. It also avoided the possibility of a fling or affair becoming a "love affair" that would disrupt the marital relationship.

Whether you choose to structure a relationship similar to mine or a more open-door policy like you described, I think communication is the key element. The better your communication and the more shared your experiences are, the more stable your relationship will be. I would caution against any arrangement where all the other spouse is told is "I have a date tonight!" followed by an absence for a period of time.

It is the lack of communicating the experience, either by their presence or a full disclosure afterwards, that provides a breeding ground for questioning the marriage. Tension in the marriage can be caused by many different things, finances, children, relatives, employment problems or lack thereof, etc. If there is anything that is vaguely known but not fully disclosed, there is often a tendency to associate the undisclosed as a cause of the problem. It makes it very easy for "Honey, looks like we'll have to tighten our budget." to become "The only reason you want to tighten the budget is to have more money to spend on their friend. You don't love me any more."

It appears that you already have good communication going. Discuss what each of you are really looking for and as many possible ways of approaching it. You will eventually come to a decision that works and you feel will not produce a strain on your marital relationship.

Pappy

P.S. IMHO it is far more erotic to share the extra dick than to have it all to myself and there are a number ways to share it that are enjoyable for both of you.

Excellent excellent opinions Pappy - thanks !!Yes, I agree with the notion that, for myself, any male contact would be purely sexual. Whereas I recognize I would have the tendency to be more sentimental with a woman. My wife also recognizes that for her, any sex with another man would more likely be the culmination of a seduction ritual. So, those are the sticky bits for us.

We have pillow-talked about her desire to see me with another man, sucking, fucking ... I specified that I would prefer to be the bottom, because that's what I'm seeking. I can fuck my wife and she can suck my dick, but I can't suck her dick and she can't fuck me with hers (She does bang me with a strap-on from time-to-time, and although she finds it erotically exciting, it's a bit frustrating for each of us that she doesn't have the real operational equipment).

However, the logistics of such a meeting, wherein both of us are available to rendez-vous with a third (or third and fourth) party, seems very difficult to manouevre.

My idea, rather selfish I know, would to be to find a willing man and meet him first and maybe engage in some sexually play. Then, after vetting the candidate, so to speak, I'd feel more comfortable having my wife involved. I should also mention that I am perfectly comfortable, intellectually, with the idea of her meeting a man alone, as long as any extra-marital activity doesn't supercede familial commitments and the like.

Thanks again Pappy, you're the greatest !:bigrin:

[trentino]

Thanks BDD, I am sure your analysis of Dan Savage was exactly what the OP was looking for a critical analysis of Dan Savage and not exploration of Open Relationships.

To the OP:
Read Tristan Taormino's book Open to start.

Work from there.

Thanks JP - going to order it today !!

[bityme]

My idea, rather selfish I know, would to be to find a willing man and meet him first and maybe engage in some sexually play. Then, after vetting the candidate, so to speak, I'd feel more comfortable having my wife involved. I should also mention that I am perfectly comfortable, intellectually, with the idea of her meeting a man alone, as long as any extra-marital activity doesn't supercede familial commitments and the like.

You seem to be expressing what I have come to believe is a major cultural difference between Europeans and Americans. My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that the European view is much more liberal. That affairs, or the existence of a paramour, is not uncommon and often exists with the tolerance, if not the approval, of the spouse. I the U.S.A., on the other hand, any extramarital conduct is generally viewed as grounds for divorce and high-cost property division and alimony.

Perhaps the difference in attitudes is that in the 1600s and 1700s the Europeans were able to drive out the Puritans, and others, that practiced the strictest religion-based moral codes. Unfortunately, those sexual conservatives were the same people who founded our nation. LOL

I have always maintained, at least intellectually, a position similar to yours, however, the opportunity for my beliefs to be put to the test have not yet occurred. I think I'd be OK, but I also know that in life, there are no guarantees.

I can appreciate the benefits of your vetting process. Now a widower, I have encountered a number of husbands who feel the same way. Whether it is a social meeting or otherwise, it does help to establish the bona fides of a truly bi prospect and weed out those who just claim to be in order to have access to another's wife.


We have pillow-talked about her desire to see me with another man, sucking, fucking ... I specified that I would prefer to be the bottom, because that's what I'm seeking. I can fuck my wife and she can suck my dick, but I can't suck her dick and she can't fuck me with hers (She does bang me with a strap-on from time-to-time, and although she finds it erotically exciting, it's a bit frustrating for each of us that she doesn't have the real operational equipment).

I agree, when it comes to sucking dick, there is nothing artificial that comes anywhere near the experience of a real one.

Artificials are getting closer in the strap-on department, however. Check out the Feeldoe. It is a strapless strap-on, part designed to be inserted into the woman while the rest protrudes as a normal, artificial cock. If the woman has good muscle control, she receives much more stimulation from the Feeldoe, than from the normal strap-on.


However, the logistics of such a meeting, wherein both of us are available to rendez-vous with a third (or third and fourth) party, seems very difficult to manouevre.

Today, the combination of work and familial obligations often creates difficulties in escaping together for a private adventure. It is obviously much easier to have one of the parties absent themselves while the other holds the rest of the world at bay.

Personally, the experiences I have had during encounters with couples are far more erotic and pleasurable than those with just the man. Even after more than 40 years of being bisexual, I find the presence of a woman, and more particularly sharing with her, far more exciting and stimulating than without.

After rereading your posts on this thread, I am confident that you and your wife will work out a way that will be successful for you and provide more pleasure than you have experienced before.

I'm looking forward to hearing the success story! :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[trentino]

You seem to be expressing what I have come to believe is a major cultural difference between Europeans and Americans. My understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that the European view is much more liberal. That affairs, or the existence of a paramour, is not uncommon and often exists with the tolerance, if not the approval, of the spouse. I the U.S.A., on the other hand, any extramarital conduct is generally viewed as grounds for divorce and high-cost property division and alimony.

I have always maintained, at least intellectually, a position similar to yours, however, the opportunity for my beliefs to be put to the test have not yet occurred. I think I'd be OK, but I also know that in life, there are no guarantees.

Heheh, I'll have to disclose that I am actually not European ! I come from a largish city on the west coast of the US but have been here in France for 10 years. My wife IS however french. Yes, having a lover or mistress is much more tolerated and in some cases somewhat expected (look at Mitterand! Not to mention DSK).

I'll just have to say that I'm lucky to have such an understanding and sexually adventuresome individual for a wife, regardless of culture and upbringing:bigrin:


I can appreciate the benefits of your vetting process. Now a widower, I have encountered a number of husbands who feel the same way. Whether it is a social meeting or otherwise, it does help to establish the bona fides of a truly bi prospect and weed out those who just claim to be in order to have access to another's wife.

Aside from safety and security concerns, It just seems that getting to know a guy first, genuinely and sexually, would be a smoother route to avoid awkwardness in any eventual manage Ã* trois. I haven't shown my wife yet (this is a gradual rolling-out process, I haven't wanted to bombard her with overwhelming information), but I've had a profile on a gay dating/hook-up site for some time now. I've tried a bunch, but I find this site, bisexual.com and the gay site, gayromeo, much friendlier for dialogue and less of a wham-bam-thank-you-man situation. Anyhow, I think it would be super sexy for her to create a profile there (she can use pictures of me) and then in the text of the profile explain that she's looking for truly bisexual guys to share with her man, me. We just need to find the time when the both of us aren't working or parenting or exhausted by the procedure !:bigrin:


I agree, when it comes to sucking dick, there is nothing artificial that comes anywhere near the experience of a real one.

Artificials are getting closer in the strap-on department, however. Check out the Feeldoe. It is a strapless strap-on, part designed to be inserted into the woman while the rest protrudes as a normal, artificial cock. If the woman has good muscle control, she receives much more stimulation from the Feeldoe, than from the normal strap-on.

Interesting. Yes, I have actually chatted to some women about the feeldo device, but I think that's a little more varsity level than where we're at at the moment. Once she has her strap-on technique perfected, we'll maybe think about moving up a notch ;) As it is for now, I kiss my wife passionately when I'm getting close as she's giving me a blow-job. That way, I get a bit of that "real dick" taste in my mouth.


Today, the combination of work and familial obligations often creates difficulties in escaping together for a private adventure. It is obviously much easier to have one of the parties absent themselves while the other holds the rest of the world at bay.

Personally, the experiences I have had during encounters with couples are far more erotic and pleasurable than those with just the man. Even after more than 40 years of being bisexual, I find the presence of a woman, and more particularly sharing with her, far more exciting and stimulating than without.

After rereading your posts on this thread, I am confident that you and your wife will work out a way that will be successful for you and provide more pleasure than you have experienced before.

I'm looking forward to hearing the success story! :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

yes, believe me, I would love to have an experience with another couple, or just another woman, or two other women or more, a gaggle of gay men- why not ?! But, as we are now, and as my wife isn't even really bicurious (and I wouldn't want to comple her to do anything that she's not comfortable with) the priority is to get me with another man. A decent fellow, regular, normal and with good hygeine. If my wife wants to have sex with another guy, straight, gay or bi guy, I am certainly all in favor.

Thanks for all of your erudite and eloquent, well considered responses and suggestions and your encouragement and confidence in our future success ! Yes, I'll be sure to give you the blow-by-blow when I have something I can share ! Besos !:tongue: