False Humility

[pepperjack]

I would love to see someone who the media has proclaimed a hero admit to that designation instead of feigning humility; in other words, someone who would say, "yeah, I'm a hero! I was scared shitless but somehow overcame my fear to do what I did" instead of "Naw, I'm no hero, I just did what anyone else would do." Isn't that being a demagogue, pandering, politically correct, telling people what they want to hear? Or how about, "thank you for honoring me that way"? People that are truly humble are not aware of their humility.

[Darkside2009]

[QUOTE=pepperjack;212636]I would love to see someone who the media has proclaimed a hero admit to that designation instead of feigning humility; in other words, someone who would say, "yeah, I'm a hero! I was scared shitless but somehow overcame my fear to do what I did" instead of "Naw, I'm no hero, I just did what anyone else would do." Isn't that being a demagogue, pandering, politically correct, telling people what they want to hear? Or how about, "thank you for honoring me that way"? People that are truly humble are not aware of their humility.[/QUOTE

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I think that people that are truly heroic, do not think of themselves in that way. To their minds they just reacted instinctively, to save a child, save their friends or comrades, or avert a catastrophe. A cold indifference to the perceived threat seems to overwhelm them, and expunge the fear that might fill their minds, if they were to sit down and calmly rationalise the situation.

I do think, that the word hero is over-used and abused these days, and perhaps we should reassess who we refer to as heroes, in order not to devalue the term.

[mikey3000]

I would love to see someone who the media has proclaimed a hero admit to that designation instead of feigning humility; in other words, someone who would say, "yeah, I'm a hero! I was scared shitless but somehow overcame my fear to do what I did" instead of "Naw, I'm no hero, I just did what anyone else would do." Isn't that being a demagogue, pandering, politically correct, telling people what they want to hear? Or how about, "thank you for honoring me that way"? People that are truly humble are not aware of their humility.

How about you try it before you start judging them. Become a "hero" and see how it feels.

If one person saves a life and you call them a hero, then what do you call a person who saves hundreds of lives?

[Annika L]

This is an interesting post...you pose an interesting question, but I'm inclined to agree with the other respondents.

I think it must be exquisitely uncomfortable to be in the position of being called a hero. Our cultural image of heroes acting heroically is the person in tights who's out there for the *purpose* of saving lives, saying "here I come to save the day!!" and being ultra-competent. Chances are that the real life hero wasn't thinking of much of anything...just reacting on gut instinct and adrenalin, and probably not doing things exactly right. Although that definitely *does* make you a hero, it doesn't help you to feel like one.

So when the press jumps all over them heaping praise for what genuinely felt like doing what anyone else in the same position would do (obey your reflexes and hormones), I think it's natural to want to set them straight. I don't think it's false modesty at all...rather, it's genuine perspective from someone who's been in that position.

[pepperjack]

How about you try it before you start judging them. Become a "hero" and see how it feels.

If one person saves a life and you call them a hero, then what do you call a person who saves hundreds of lives?

one doesn't try to become a hero; proves my point, just like being genuinely humble; one becomes a hero due to circumstances; rising to the occasion; I know how it feels! I call both heroes; My point is, why all the "aw shucks, all in a day's work", when they're enjoying the attention & glory; have U tried BEING a hero? How does it feel?:cool:

[pepperjack]

[QUOTE=pepperjack;212636]I would love to see someone who the media has proclaimed a hero admit to that designation instead of feigning humility; in other words, someone who would say, "yeah, I'm a hero! I was scared shitless but somehow overcame my fear to do what I did" instead of "Naw, I'm no hero, I just did what anyone else would do." Isn't that being a demagogue, pandering, politically correct, telling people what they want to hear? Or how about, "thank you for honoring me that way"? People that are truly humble are not aware of their humility.[/QUOTE

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I think that people that are truly heroic, do not think of themselves in that way. To their minds they just reacted instinctively, to save a child, save their friends or comrades, or avert a catastrophe. A cold indifference to the perceived threat seems to overwhelm them, and expunge the fear that might fill their minds, if they were to sit down and calmly rationalise the situation.

I do think, that the word hero is over-used and abused these days, and perhaps we should reassess who we refer to as heroes, in order not to devalue the term.
U're reaffirming my point once again Dark; it's overused because of a collective sense of guilt over how Viet-Nam veterans were treated.

[Long Duck Dong]

willie apiata, NZ SAS soldier, awarded the VC for courage under extreme fire, asked not to be given a medal for doing what any other person would do for his fellow soldiers.......

was ordered to do some appearances and interviews, cos otherwise he would have not done them..... and when he was told that as a VC winner, it would restrict him returning to his duties, he fought for the right to continue to be a soldier, just a simple soldier......

myself, in the army ( and I can not go into details much ) performed above and beyond the call of duty, cos I could and did, and I will argue that I did not do anything different to what I would normally do.....
under the nz rules, a heroic act has to be witnessed independently and validated by a senior officer, in order to be submitted for medal consideration... bless my friends for remaining silent in a official capacity... and the fact my friends and I were still alive, is and was award enuf, not just for my actions but the actions of my friends and fellow soldiers.......

the thing about heros, is they are made heros, cos their actions.... but only cos somebody else knew about it and said something, calling attention to the person.....

phoenix jones, is trying to be a hero ( google him ) he is a self proclaimed customed hero....

[mikey3000]

Heros exist everywhere, and most get no recognition at all. Doesn't make them less of a hero though.

Yes, I was called a hero once. I "saved" a whole plane load of pleople from certain death because of a mistake I noticed as we were taxiing down the runway. But truth be told, I wasn't thinking of anyone else. I was thinking of my life because I too was on that plane and I didn't want to die. Didn't think of the others. None the less I was called a hero even though the story never made it out. So I really wasn't a hero and didn't want the reminder. That's all.

[DuckiesDarling]

Pepperjack, I'd say it depends on who the media is calling a hero. The last person I saw called a "hero" was Dakota Meyer, and he didn't say he did what everyone else would do, he said he did what any other soldier would do.

Following that, I second other people's thoughts that people don't try to be a "hero", oftimes it comes from, as Mikey said, a byproduct of saving yourself and that's just self preservation.

Are there people who go so far above and beyond what anyone else would do that we call them heroes no matter what they say? Yes. But conversely, there are people who completely go the other direction. I recently read a news story about a small girl who was the victim of a hit and run in China and the cameras actually recorded other vehicles and people who disregarded her as if she was a piece of trash. Another vehicle actually hit her, a rickshaw driver steered around her and people walking by her moved to either side to "avoid" her. She later died, could she have survived if just one person demonstrated common sense? Maybe. But it also came to notice that another Good Samaritan got in trouble for violating goverment laws when he stopped to help someone. There are two sides to every story and they are rarely pretty.

[Hephaestion]

PJ - did you say hero or earhole? (polite orifice)

Experience says that one shuns publicity and acclaim while the other capitalises on it.

[Realist]

I'm sure that there's more unrecognized heroes than recognized ones!

One that I know of was a complete surprise to me! A fellow in my company in Germany was not well-liked by most. He was a whiner and slacker, with a personality of a Snidely Whiplash.

Soon after I went back to the states, my old unit was sent to Vietnam. A few years later, I was visited by one of my old buddies who was in Germany with me, then went on to Vietnam.

He told me that the sleazy soldier I mentioned above, was a marvel in combat. The first one, who I thought would turn into a certified coward, ended up being one of the best soldiers in the unit!

You just never know how someone will perform when the chips are down!

[pepperjack]

I'm sure that there's more unrecognized heroes than recognized ones!

One that I know of was a complete surprise to me! A fellow in my company in Germany was not well-liked by most. He was a whiner and slacker, with a personality of a Snidely Whiplash.

Soon after I went back to the states, my old unit was sent to Vietnam. A few years later, I was visited by one of my old buddies who was in Germany with me, then went on to Vietnam.

He told me that the sleazy soldier I mentioned above, was a marvel in combat. The first one, who I thought would turn into a certified coward, ended up being one of the best soldiers in the unit!

You just never know how someone will perform when the chips are down!

Which confirms what I said earlier, that one doesn't become a hero by choosing or trying to be one but rather by rising to the occasion when put to the test, just like someone pursuing greatness will find it constantly eludes him; also agree with you about all of the unsung heroes out there.

[silberwolf1960]

Trust me, the humility isn't fake. Those who call people heroes and give them the praise they so richly deserve, more than likely haven't " been there,done that."
There are heroes in and out of uniform. All they want is to left alone and a simple thank you is all the praise they need,or want.
When someone says to me you are a hero for going to war and being wounded,my reply is this" I ain't no hero. The heroes are those we left behind,the wives and kids,and the parents. The heroes are the folks that help the spouses and parents of those who serve. Thank you for your support of the troops and let's bring all of them home."
So to sum it all up. Yes the humility is real, we want to be left alone and "thank you, no. Well done." is all we want.

[Darkside2009]

[QUOTE=Darkside2009;212641]
U're reaffirming my point once again Dark; it's overused because of a collective sense of guilt over how Viet-Nam veterans were treated.

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Not really, I'm not American, so I have no sense of guilt of how your countrymen and women treated their soldiers and other military forces. I never treated them that way.

Britain never served in Vietnam, although we had taken part in the Korean War. In part I suppose this was in retaliation for the USA not backing Britain over Suez.

Our Australian and New Zealand cousins served there, as decided for them by their Governments. My cousin served there as part of the Australian forces.

If I have any feeling on the matter, it is one of anger at the shabby way they were treated, when they returned home. I wouldn't blame them if they felt bitter about it.

However as I had, and have, relatives in the military, I may be somewhat biased in my viewpoint.

To my mind they are our forces and we should support them and their families as best we can. I regard with revulsion, the British Government informing military personnel that they are being made redundant when their tour of duty finishes. The cuts in our defence budget, I find utterly stupid, and repugnant, but still our troops give of their best.

On November 11th, at 11 a.m. we in the UK celebrate Armistice Day, when we wear a blood-red poppy in our lapel, and have a two minute silence across our Nation to remember the sacrifice of those who died in battle, or returned home wounded or maimed to their loved ones.

I honour and respect our military and the military of our allies, a simple thank you or well-done, seems totally inadequate for the service they have given.

In England they have a town called Wooten Basset, through which the flag-draped coffins of our military were paraded on being repatriated to the UK from Afghanistan or Iraq. There people would line the streets in respect for our fallen.

As our fallen are being repatriated through a different airbase, Wooton Basset will no longer serve this function, but in recognition of the respect they showed, they have been given the prefix Royal. The town will hence forward be known as Royal Wooton Basset.

Often our regiments are given the Freedom of the City, or the town where their regiment is based, and a public parade when they return. If one compares this to the behaviour of the WBC in your country, I think I know which I prefer.

[darkeyes]

[QUOTE=pepperjack;212658]

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Not really, I'm not American, so I have no sense of guilt of how your countrymen and women treated their soldiers and other military forces. I never treated them that way.

Britain never served in Vietnam, although we had taken part in the Korean War. In part I suppose this was in retaliation for the USA not backing Britain over Suez.



American attitudes to the Franco/British/Israeli invasion of Egypt in 1956 bore little relation to the decision of Harold Wilson's government of the 1960's not to provide military assistance in Vietnam.. some people no doubt were dischuffed but mostly British people did not wish to have another far eastern war to fight. They were already having enough trouble in Malaysia, Borneo, in Aden as well as several places in Africa.

This isn't to do with the thread Darkside, and I have no time or desire to involve myself in it.. but I have a host of links on Vietnam and Britains refusal to play a military part as I do about many conflicts which I have and use when needed regarding my pacifism. No babes, I am not going to argue one word to do with pacifism other than that.. This one is as good as any and quite detailed. I thought you and others, especially Americans, who may gain a better understanding of why the British did not war in Vietnam might find it of interest.

http://www.americansc.org.uk/Online/Wilsonjohnson.htm

Forgive a little tarts intrusion guys.:)

[Darkside2009]

Don't blame me, I thought she'd be working over-time, after strolling in to work 40 minutes late. lol

Read, your link, didn't agree with the views expressed. I did think Wilson was one of the worst Prime Ministers we ever had though, a liar and a buffoon, quite delusional at times.

[FunE1]

Humility is the condition of being humble, which is the condition of being not proud (in the sense of boastfulness) nor arrogant. I do not see how you construe a statement like "Naw, I'm no hero, I just did what anyone else would do" to somehow be feigned humility.

I do agree with you, somewhat, that it might be more gracious to thank the person who calls you a hero for offering such an honorific, but I think every person has the picture of what they think a "HERO" is/does and it generally is NOT a picture of themselves.

I don't think the same applies to humility or humbleness, which many people DO purposefully strive to achieve/maintain.

[pepperjack]

Trust me, the humility isn't fake. Those who call people heroes and give them the praise they so richly deserve, more than likely haven't " been there,done that."
There are heroes in and out of uniform. All they want is to left alone and a simple thank you is all the praise they need,or want.
When someone says to me you are a hero for going to war and being wounded,my reply is this" I ain't no hero. The heroes are those we left behind,the wives and kids,and the parents. The heroes are the folks that help the spouses and parents of those who serve. Thank you for your support of the troops and let's bring all of them home."
So to sum it all up. Yes the humility is real, we want to be left alone and "thank you, no. Well done." is all we want.

And trust me, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful or pointing fingers at anyone; just thought I was making an observation about one of the hypocrisies in our society; Grew up in a miliitary family; Dad was a career soldier, 2 tours of duty in Viet Nam; thought I would have to go myself when I turned 18 but got lucky with revised draft system; gave Dad a beautiful funeral, full military honors, very colorful & moving the different uniforms represented there; I get emotional watching commercials about the Wounded Warrior Project; I was once dubbed a hero by some peers; I felt a sense of pride but kept quiet about it; have never talked to anyone about it until now; that praise just became absorbed into my quiet, confident, self-esteem.

[pepperjack]

Humility is the condition of being humble, which is the condition of being not proud (in the sense of boastfulness) nor arrogant. I do not see how you construe a statement like "Naw, I'm no hero, I just did what anyone else would do" to somehow be feigned humility.

I do agree with you, somewhat, that it might be more gracious to thank the person who calls you a hero for offering such an honorific, but I think every person has the picture of what they think a "HERO" is/does and it generally is NOT a picture of themselves.

I don't think the same applies to humility or humbleness, which many people DO purposefully strive to achieve/maintain.

And once again, I maintain, true humility & greatness are qualities that are bestowed, not goals to be pursued. A person who is truly humble, is not aware of his humility.

[pepperjack]

PJ - did you say hero or earhole? (polite orifice)

Experience says that one shuns publicity and acclaim while the other capitalises on it.

So where does that put Audie Murphy?

[pepperjack]

[QUOTE=pepperjack;212658]

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Not really, I'm not American, so I have no sense of guilt of how your countrymen and women treated their soldiers and other military forces. I never treated them that way.

Britain never served in Vietnam, although we had taken part in the Korean War. In part I suppose this was in retaliation for the USA not backing Britain over Suez.

Our Australian and New Zealand cousins served there, as decided for them by their Governments. My cousin served there as part of the Australian forces.

If I have any feeling on the matter, it is one of anger at the shabby way they were treated, when they returned home. I wouldn't blame them if they felt bitter about it.

However as I had, and have, relatives in the military, I may be somewhat biased in my viewpoint.

To my mind they are our forces and we should support them and their families as best we can. I regard with revulsion, the British Government informing military personnel that they are being made redundant when their tour of duty finishes. The cuts in our defence budget, I find utterly stupid, and repugnant, but still our troops give of their best.

On November 11th, at 11 a.m. we in the UK celebrate Armistice Day, when we wear a blood-red poppy in our lapel, and have a two minute silence across our Nation to remember the sacrifice of those who died in battle, or returned home wounded or maimed to their loved ones.

I honour and respect our military and the military of our allies, a simple thank you or well-done, seems totally inadequate for the service they have given.

In England they have a town called Wooten Basset, through which the flag-draped coffins of our military were paraded on being repatriated to the UK from Afghanistan or Iraq. There people would line the streets in respect for our fallen.

As our fallen are being repatriated through a different airbase, Wooton Basset will no longer serve this function, but in recognition of the respect they showed, they have been given the prefix Royal. The town will hence forward be known as Royal Wooton Basset.

Often our regiments are given the Freedom of the City, or the town where their regiment is based, and a public parade when they return. If one compares this to the behaviour of the WBC in your country, I think I know which I prefer.

I wasn't suggesting that u were part of that colllective guilt Dark; I just felt that you kind of tuned in to where I was coming from when u mentioned the overuse of the word; I guess it's the media. One of my favorite movies has been Stallone's First Blood, the launching pad for the Rambo movies. It's about a Viet Nam vet, basically a drifter, transient,trying to visit family of former comrade,who winds up being harassed by prejudiced sherriff; turns out, drifter is Congressional Medal of Honor recipient & when sherriff finds out, is even more resentful! This story just spoke to me; I grew up in that turbulent era; attended the funeral of an upperclassman in high school who died in the war our troops were not allowed to win by the powers that be.

[Hephaestion]

Don't blame me, I thought she'd be working over-time, after strolling in to work 40 minutes late. lol

Read, your link, didn't agree with the views expressed. I did think Wilson was one of the worst Prime Ministers we ever had though, a liar and a buffoon, quite delusional at times.

Steady on now. Anybody who wore a Gannex Mac, smoked a pipe and kept our kids from being killed in (an) illconceived and unwinnable war(s) can't have been that bad.

.

[Hephaestion]

So where does that put Audie Murphy?

You place him. He's one of yours.

As a child I remember his films as mediocre. To his credit I do remember him making a plea for the recogniition of the pernicious mental distress caused to soldiers by war; he was affected. Was his 'peace time' fame self sought or was he swept along? Clearly there were times when he liked the Bling on his uniform and making money.

[void()]

Never have understood positing self evident factual observations. It often lends itself to conversation of such nature.

The dawn has brought forth a new day to bare. Joe Smith says, "It's day time."

Fred Jones has been watching the sunrise quietly. "Your point?" Fred says.

So, does this make Fred the 'bad guy' for 'killing' a possible conversation? Did Joe really have anything to say of conversational merit?

'Smalltalk' has never been a gift for me. See it more as watered down banality serving not much purpose. You can ask elian. I'm not one for small talk, speak when there is actually something to say. Lots of times others say it before me, sometimes better as well. I maul everything over. Not out of thinking slowly but from deeper consideration. And I have become more reticent whilst time passes.

Still do not comprehend espousing self evident factual observations.

Fred looks at Joe. "You state the obvious to state the obvious?" He asks. The sun blazes in a blue noon time sky. It seems everyone is content to call it day time. Fred by now, has heard no less than two dozen comments to the affect, he reflects upon the word redundant.

And no, I'm not spoiling for fight nor making light. Trying to grasp something I cannot, apparently.