Need moral advice.

[dseven]

Hi guys, so, probably most of you are going to look down on me for this, but hell, I need a bit of advice. I kinda lack of real "black and white" morality, using the concept of "blue and orange morality" I would say that I kinda posses a "light blue and dark orange morality" which means that I kinda tend to ignore normal "moral rules".

So, I need a bit of help with this conondrum. I broke up with a fuck buddy cos he wanted us to be exclusive (but not boyfriends), I don't wanna be exclusive with him. I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, but still I like being with him and having sex with him.

I was actually thinking about telling him that I will agree to an exclusive relationship, but in reality I wouldn't be exclusive, but he wouldn't find out, we would both be happy...

So, what do you think??
Hugs
Dseven

[Darkside2009]

Hi guys, so, probably most of you are going to look down on me for this, but hell, I need a bit of advice. I kinda lack of real "black and white" morality, using the concept of "blue and orange morality" I would say that I kinda posses a "light blue and dark orange morality" which means that I kinda tend to ignore normal "moral rules".

So, I need a bit of help with this conondrum. I broke up with a fuck buddy cos he wanted us to be exclusive (but not boyfriends), I don't wanna be exclusive with him. I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, but still I like being with him and having sex with him.

I was actually thinking about telling him that I will agree to an exclusive relationship, but in reality I wouldn't be exclusive, but he wouldn't find out, we would both be happy...

So, what do you think??
Hugs
Dseven

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think you are immature and selfish, you want to lie to this person, potentially put his health at risk and expect us to pat you on the back and condone you for it? Did I mention stupid?

If you want to have sex with multiple partners, that is your choice, this boy has already indicated he is not willing to do that. You should be honest with him as you should be with everyone else. Then it will be his decision whether or not he wishes to have sex with you on your terms.

If you lie, sooner or later he will find out, and you will have lost a friend. When your other friends discover the truth, you will likely lose a few of them too. Do you have so many friends you can afford to lose them in this way?

[NakedInSeattle]

Simple answer...Wrong! If he can't take you the way you are, move on.

[sammie19]

Hi guys, so, probably most of you are going to look down on me for this, but hell, I need a bit of advice. I kinda lack of real "black and white" morality, using the concept of "blue and orange morality" I would say that I kinda posses a "light blue and dark orange morality" which means that I kinda tend to ignore normal "moral rules".

So, I need a bit of help with this conondrum. I broke up with a fuck buddy cos he wanted us to be exclusive (but not boyfriends), I don't wanna be exclusive with him. I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, but still I like being with him and having sex with him.

I was actually thinking about telling him that I will agree to an exclusive relationship, but in reality I wouldn't be exclusive, but he wouldn't find out, we would both be happy...

So, what do you think??
Hugs
Dseven

I am sure he willl still love you and thank you should you present him with a dose of something nasty through your "exclusiveness". And if it is something incurable and eventually terminal I am sure he will love you and thank you all the more and be very happy.

I do like the confidence that you will never be found out. Such confidence has even caused the fall of empires.

[mikey3000]

Hi guys, so, probably most of you are going to look down on me for this, but hell, I need a bit of advice. I kinda lack of real "black and white" morality, using the concept of "blue and orange morality" I would say that I kinda posses a "light blue and dark orange morality" which means that I kinda tend to ignore normal "moral rules".

So, I need a bit of help with this conondrum. I broke up with a fuck buddy cos he wanted us to be exclusive (but not boyfriends), I don't wanna be exclusive with him. I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, but still I like being with him and having sex with him.

I was actually thinking about telling him that I will agree to an exclusive relationship, but in reality I wouldn't be exclusive, but he wouldn't find out, we would both be happy...

So, what do you think??
Hugs
Dseven
Sorry dude, but I agree. You don't have any morals. Good that you dumped him.

[dseven]

Okay, first of all, I don't have any illnesses and I won't contract any, you guys and gals realize that sex doesn't mean you'll assuredly get an std, right?? As long as I have safe sex, that wouldn't be a problem.

First of all, I wouldn't have sex with multiple partners, it's something else, I wanna like enjoy being with him while keep meeting other people, and potentially finding someone to have a relationship with. He doesn't wanna have a relationship with me, he just wants me for himself, and I don't think thats fair or what we agreed upon first hand.

Plus, the first thing he did when we broke up, he went and had sex with a guy.

Look, if you want to disagree with me, do so, but don't give me your "you'll infect him with an std" bullshit. I'm not stupid, and I'm not promiscuous. I only had sex with three people in all my life.

[Annika L]

I would never suggest that you are certain to get an STD, but nor should you be 100% certain that you won't...that is just as naive. Shit happens. Your partner should be able to trust that you won't put them in that position.

He had sex with another guy *after* you broke up. Different understanding entirely.

Oh, and I second the idea that you cannot be 100% certain that you won't be found out.

I don't think you immoral or selfish for asking the question...rather the reverse. But I think that breaking a promise for your own gratification and convenience *is* immoral and selfish. So I don't like the sound of your plan.

You want advice on morals? There's mine. You don't want it? Don't ask.

[sammie19]

I am not judging you but warning you. It only takes one and no matter how much we practice safe or safer sex, just as contraception is not a 100% safeguard against pregnancy, they are not a 100% safeguard against disease.

Over confidence about anything is a dangerous thing.

[LastGent]

Thinking about having a secret mister/ress, dseven? The cuckold/ess always finds out.

[tenni]

Dseven
Basically,do what you want to do. Follow your inner thoughts about what would be right for you to do.

The best thing would be to be honest with your ex fuck bud. If he wants to be exclusive and you don't, you ended it. You seem to be having second thoughts. Talk to him again. Tell him that you want to have sex with him but won't be exclusive. Since, he doesn't want a relationship beyond a fuck bud offer him the fuck bud option again. If he says no, move on and stop thinking that you can find a compromise.

[bityme]

Hi guys, so, probably most of you are going to look down on me for this, but hell, I need a bit of advice. I kinda lack of real "black and white" morality, using the concept of "blue and orange morality" I would say that I kinda posses a "light blue and dark orange morality" which means that I kinda tend to ignore normal "moral rules".

So, I need a bit of help with this conondrum. I broke up with a fuck buddy cos he wanted us to be exclusive (but not boyfriends), I don't wanna be exclusive with him. I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, but still I like being with him and having sex with him.

I was actually thinking about telling him that I will agree to an exclusive relationship, but in reality I wouldn't be exclusive, but he wouldn't find out, we would both be happy...

So, what do you think??
Hugs
Dseven

Dseven, you have a number of things at work here. The most important is the issue of honest and integrity. At age 20, you are still in the process of forming character traits that may last a lifetime.

One of the most important of these character traits is honesty or integrity. Society places great value on one who displays and maintains this characteristic. Do you trust someone to watch over your most valuable possessions who you know to be dishonest? Can you count on someone who you know has little value in keeping their word. The idea of a person "whose word is their bond" is not just a cliche, it is a character trait in which society at large places great value.

Whether you label it morals (religious rules) or mores (mo-rays) (societal rules), these are the standards by which others will judge you. If you elect, at some point, to ignore them, you will find it much easier to take an even greater departure from them in the future. If a friend drops some money and you pick it up and keep it because they will never know it was you, the next step will be taking some from his wallet when the opportunity arises.

Sure, you can give your buddy a promise you have no intention of keeping, but consider the effect. Perhaps he will never find out and your outside play is done safely, with minimal risk that is successful. Is this a situation in which no one is hurt? I think not! Even though it might appear that your conduct hurt didn't hurt anybody, it actually did. It hurt you. You compromised your own character. You made yourself less valuable in the eyes of society. If you don't keep your promise, you are not the only one who knows about it. Those that you play with while breaking the promise will know and there is always the possibility of them telling someone.

Even if your buddy finds out you lied, the damage to him will be far less than the damage to yourself. You will be making him the victim who will have the power to make sure everyone knows you can't be trusted.

You have to decide! Is it only about just getting a little extra play on the side or is it really about who you are as a man and how you want others to view you now and in the future. Personally, I would rather be perceived as an honest man than a cheat and a liar.

I hope you evaluate all the possible consequences before you make your decision.

Pappy

[Gearbox]

Did he want exclusiveness so you could bb?
If so, I really wouldn't put any faith into that set-up.

Just tell him that you'd like the arrangement as it was. He can only say 'Yay' or 'Nay'.

[Long Duck Dong]

the trouble with giving advice on morals in this forum, is that you can end up being told that you are a moralist that has not consideration for the rights of the bisexual male.....

so lets put the morals aside.....

how would you feel if you meet the person that you want to be with, and you desire.... then you find out that you have both reached a agreement about partners etc.... then you find out, that the person you trust, has betrayed your trust......

it is often ok for us to do things cos its us that is doing it, but we get upset, offended, annoyed, when its the other person that does it to us..... and we fail to see that we can not see issues when we do it..

so my advice to you, is think about what you want... and how you will react if it happens to you.....

I honestly do not expect you to follow my advice or even listen to my advice... I fully expect you to do as you please as it is your life..... but bear in mind, that this thread may come back to haunt you one day, if you talk about being caught out or on the recieving end of a betrayal of trust.....

I am not saying that you have to be monogamous or committed or exclusive, but just aware that you could one day be the other person..... and its not a very nice experience, and I know that cos my ex partner was a serial cheater....

[bullhead69]

I thought a conondrum was something you wore for safe sex...

[dickhand]

No no , I think that's a condiment !

[RavenEye]

So you both like each other but you both agreed you wouldn't date? And be exclusive? You want to be exclusive fuck buddies? How does that work? I think you guys should just talk and compromise. Find out what you two really want and dig deep into what the problems are. Good luck!

[FunE1]

What do I think? I think your idea is absolutely the worst thing you could do.

As Bityme has said, society places a great value on the person who his truthful and honest -- especially when it comes to personal & sexual relations (and this is true of most modern societies throughout the world).

Do you really want to be the type of person who people do not trust? Do you really want to be thought of as a liar by the people who are close to you?

You might be able to have your relationship as proposed and never get caught... but there's no guarantee of that (and my experience has shown that 9 times out of 10, the lie will be discovered). If you do get caught, your partner will be distressed/disappointed, you'll be stressed/disappointed, most likely the person you are "caught" with will be stressed/disappointed and much drama will ensue. Trust me on this. Drama will ensue. And when it does, it will not be pretty.

Far better to be honest from the get go. Tell your friend that you're not looking for an exclusive situation and that you don't feel that, if you DID agree to be exclusive, you could live up to that agreement.

If you would still like to have a non-exclusive FWB situation, tell him that, too.

And then you might want to ask (if you haven't already) why he wants to be exclusive. He might have a concern about being in a non-exclusive relationship that you can resolve by making a small concession. If he agrees to that concession, you then can have the relationship you both want. If he doesn't agree to the concession, then it's time to find another play partner. (And you may find that his concern is about an issue you are not willing to change, which again just means it's time to end this relationship and find another partner).

Either way, you've been a) honest about what you want, b) told him what you are willing to do/not do in your relationship with him, and c) conducted yourself in a manner that shows respect to your partner AND TO YOURSELF... the latter of which may be the most important part of the entire process.

Jim, aka FunE1

[tenni]

"society places a great value on the person who his truthful and honest -- especially when it comes to personal & sexual relations "

really? That was my first reaction to society placing great value on truthful and honest.:bigrin: Lip service yes...those that want to act "righteous" yes..meanwhile their whoring around with their assistants.

ok..some many would like to have this honesty and truth apply to personal and sexual relations...that has some truth as an abstract concept. I'd like it. Is it a reality? hmmm not sure:rolleyes: I agree that it is the best road to travel on though. :bigrin:

[Jobelorocks]

The problem with not being honest about things is that since you are willing to lie about something like that, how are they to know you aren't lying about other things. (Many people think people won't find out that you are sleeping with other people, but that is certainly not a guarantee.) If you aren't being honest about sleeping with other people, how are they supposed to know you are being honest about using condoms with these people? The fact of the matter is sex is never totally safe. Condoms break and fail sometimes. They do help prevent STD's, but they aren't perfect. If you are sleeping with other people all of your partners should know. Would you want people to be honest with you, you should hold yourself to the same standard. The fact is no one wants to be lied to, especially about things as intimate and personal as sex.

[dafydd]

Hi guys, so, probably most of you are going to look down on me for this, but hell, I need a bit of advice. I kinda lack of real "black and white" morality, using the concept of "blue and orange morality" I would say that I kinda posses a "light blue and dark orange morality" which means that I kinda tend to ignore normal "moral rules".

So, I need a bit of help with this conondrum. I broke up with a fuck buddy cos he wanted us to be exclusive (but not boyfriends), I don't wanna be exclusive with him. I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, but still I like being with him and having sex with him.

I was actually thinking about telling him that I will agree to an exclusive relationship, but in reality I wouldn't be exclusive, but he wouldn't find out, we would both be happy...

So, what do you think??
Hugs
Dseven

I'm not shocked by this. I say if you feel comfortable doing it, lie to him. He's only a fuck buddy. Come on guys. He's a 'FUCK BUDDY'. Thats not really much of a title. Some guys call their hands their favourite 'fuck buddy'.
And what is this 'exclusive; fuck buddy thing? It's ridiculous.

"You can only put your willy in my mouth and i can only put my willy in your mouth"
You could try and command the use of my body but i need someone who is going to nuture my mind, hapiness and emotional wellbeing aswell.
Its kind of insulting to suggest that he can retain the exclusive rights to your body without investing any emotions or anythingmore than the time spent fucking. Sounds like what a lot of young straight men I know would love to do. Have a woman who would exclusively fuck only them yet demand no connection or emotional support in return.

And as long as you practice safe sex, the risks of ill-health are very low. I didn't give every new sexual partner I had a complete run down of my sexual history. So why does he have to know? Remember the term 'fuck buddy' doesn't mean a long heart-to-heart chat has to happen before. All they do is fuck. They....fuck. Buddies....who fuck. Sometimes its quick fuck, sometimes a long, slow screw. But ultimately the goal is ejaculation, not marriage. (such complete opposites; :)
Amongst the fine moral callibor of some of the responses, I'm sure there are plenty of people who have had more than one sex partner at anyone time and not been 100% honest about it to them.
No, when it comes to hard, hot, on demand, and NSA sex; lies are accetaple, even ubiquitoius
(in a good way).

[Jobelorocks]

Oh and I forgot to mention that you can get genital herpes from someone going down on you who has oral herpes. People tend to not know that or forget that, so unless you use condoms with oral sex as well (or dental dams) then you are still putting them unknowingly at risk.

[tenni]

Wow!
Great points dafydd!!!

There seems to be a lot of sexually repressed posters on this thread.:tong: Good that some are in a monogamous relationship. You'd shit your pants in the real single bisexual world.:eek::bigrin:

[Jobelorocks]

My husband and I have other sexual partners, we just are honest about it to each other and our other sexual partners. You don't have to lie to be non-monogamous.

[tenni]

Ya sure you are...lol :) Couple action doesn't count in the single world. That's why its single. Your writing reeks of paranoia and a know it all moralistic belief structure.

[Long Duck Dong]

I'm not shocked by this. I say if you feel comfortable doing it, lie to him. He's only a fuck buddy. Come on guys. He's a 'FUCK BUDDY'. Thats not really much of a title. Some guys call their hands their favourite 'fuck buddy'.
And what is this 'exclusive; fuck buddy thing? It's ridiculous.

"You can only put your willy in my mouth and i can only put my willy in your mouth"
You could try and command the use of my body but i need someone who is going to nuture my mind, hapiness and emotional wellbeing aswell.
Its kind of insulting to suggest that he can retain the exclusive rights to your body without investing any emotions or anythingmore than the time spent fucking. Sounds like what a lot of young straight men I know would love to do. Have a woman who would exclusively fuck only them yet demand no connection or emotional support in return.

And as long as you practice safe sex, the risks of ill-health are very low. I didn't give every new sexual partner I had a complete run down of my sexual history. So why does he have to know? Remember the term 'fuck buddy' doesn't mean a long heart-to-heart chat has to happen before. All they do is fuck. They....fuck. Buddies....who fuck. Sometimes its quick fuck, sometimes a long, slow screw. But ultimately the goal is ejaculation, not marriage. (such complete opposites; :)
Amongst the fine moral callibor of some of the responses, I'm sure there are plenty of people who have had more than one sex partner at anyone time and not been 100% honest about it to them.
No, when it comes to hard, hot, on demand, and NSA sex; lies are accetaple, even ubiquitoius
(in a good way).

what would you perfer...... a fuck buddy that lies to you and may place you and themselves at risk.... or a fuck buddy that does all they can to limit any risks to you and them... ?????

its ok to say that lies are acceptable...... but I have to ask, if your fuck buddy was to contract something like herpes or even hiv / aids, and you were to contract it from them cos you were having bareback sex with them, thinking that they were exclusive...... are the lies ok then ????

safe sex limits the chances of hiv / aids, but its not the only way to get it......

I do recall the issue in NZ last year, with a guy that was hiv pos, having sex with other males and females... and when the truth came out, the * victims * said, the guy told them he was exclusive with them and they trusted him... and had unsafe sex, he had lied... there is nine known victims, 2 have died since

your opinion is right tho, its a fuck buddy situation, not a relationship.... but is there anything wrong with wanting to limit the risks to ones personal health with a exclusive fuck buddy situation ???

[DuckiesDarling]

I've been reading this thread and I see it coming down to one thing. DSeven is basically asking us for permission to lie to someone regarding his sexual status with them.

That's a no brainer. DSeven you are the one that has to look in the mirror, if you are happy seeing a liar looking back at you that has no care for anyone's sexual safety but himself, that's on you. Not us and we damned sure aren't gonna tell you it's okay to do it so you can show it to this other person down the line and say "they told me to do it"

You don't want to be exclusive, fine. You did the right thing to walk away, but do not play games that can intrude on someone else's sexual health. That's not fair to them or to you.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Lying And cheating. Nice. Just be truthful and Tell him you want to still be a fuck buddy, but also want to play your field. He wont see it the way you do, but its better than you lying to him, and cheating on him.
Cat

[tenni]

for those who can not read or haven't been fucked for over two years.

Read what Dseven wrote again.

"I wanna like enjoy being with him while keep meeting other people, and potentially finding someone to have a relationship with. He doesn't wanna have a relationship with me, he just wants me for himself, and I don't think thats fair or what we agreed upon first hand."

You are blaming the wrong person here...imo.

This is not about cheating and a monogamous relationship. This is a fuck buddy relationship. Lying isn't good though in a fuck buddy relationship. Neither is monogamy part of a fuck buddy relationship. Neither is trying to control the fuck buddy in an exclusive "relationship". Some of you are placing significance where it doesn't exist.

[Jobelorocks]

Well just because the other guy changed his mind, doesn't mean he should be misled. People change their minds all the time about relationships, if the two can't agree on rules, break it off and find other people who are cool with playing the field. Simple solution.

[elian]

I can understand you are young and you want more experiences but don't lie to him dseven, that will only make things worse. If an exclusive relationship is not what you want then say so and find another person..try to do it nicely - people do have feelings..

Let's say you try to deceive him. Even if you don't get a disease from being with other men or women (which you can't guarantee 100%) eventually he is likely to find out you were sleeping with other people anyway.

I will tell you right now at 35 years old that if he was being honest and I had strong feelings for him as well I would probably honestly try being exclusive because with every anonymous partner you have sex with your risk of getting a disease goes up. Hopefully with condoms that risk is minimised but it is still there.

Just like you are asking this question, any other partner you are with can also play the same trick on you - tell you they are exclusive and still sleep around..it all boils down to how much you trust the other person..trust and good communication are key to a decent relationship.

Of course, as you already say, you are young enough that you really aren't interested in a relationship, but don't play around with someone who is - instead give both of you an honest chance to really find what both you want.

[dseven]

Thank you guys for getting off the "STDs" topic, that's just not the problem. I mean if I have sex with another person while I'm with him, it would be with a girl, and I wouldn't give oral to a girl that I've just met.

Plus, you have to understand that this guy was the first to break our sweet deal of "you can't get jealous because I'm with other people". I think he was kinda selfish, cos he says that he only needs one sexual partner, I'm not saying that I need more than one, but I mean, I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, I'm looking for one with a girl, but what's the problem in keeping your libido at bay while you do so?? He's only thinking about what he wants, and he forgets what I want.

All I'm trying to do is to get us back to the status quo, yeah, it would be a lie, but technically it would only be a lie if I fuck with someone, which I probably won't do without first breaking up with this guy. So yeah, it sounds awful, but really it's not much of a big deal.

It's like when I lie to my parents about a few things so they are happy and they don't bother me so much with stuff that I don't care.
I know lying is supposed to be inmoral, but again I have a degree of blue and orange morality, so who cares??? Everybody lies.

Hugs
Dseven.

[Long Duck Dong]

there is nothing wrong with keeping your libido at bay, while you are looking.....

yeah I understand what you are saying with the " its no big deal * cos there is not a committed relationship there, just a agreement between two people.... its like a temp thing that you would not keep going once you settle down

I am generally the type of person that likes to keep my partners in the loop, so yes, in your situation I would not lie cos that could come back and bite my ass with my new, more stable relationship..... so thats the way I tend to look at things.....

at the end of the day, its not my decision, its not my choice, and the end results do not affect me..... and it seems like you have it pretty much sorted out... so all I can do is wish you luck, hope you find the right balance and solution without it all getting messy, and good like finding the right lady

[tenni]

Why not be honest with the fellow by stating that you want a relationship with a woman? You are willing to have sex with him as a fuck buddy until you meet a woman that you want to explore a relationship with.

You seem to be stating that you do not want a relationship with a man...any man. You don't want to have random sex with a lot of men but nor do you want to promise exclusivity with this guy. You're willing to have sex with him and not have sex with other men but you really want a woman.This is purely a sexual release. This way you are being really honest with this guy. If he doesn't want you looking for a woman, then that is it. Its over with him. Look for another fuck buddy who is also interested in a relationship with a woman but is happy to fuck around with you in the mean time.

Is this fuck buddy guy a bi man or gay man? If he is gay, then he may not understand your perspective. If he is gay and doesn't agree find a bi man who may have a better understanding about what you are looking for.

The posters who are carrying on about cheating are really out of touch with reality of same sex fuck buddy scenarios. A fuck buddy is not a partner and those who try to make such parallels in their posts have their head up their ass. ;) lol Unless agreed upon by both guys, you owe each other no loyalty or exclusivity.

[dseven]

Yeah well, I like him, I enjoy being with him, he's cute and hot, and if I hypothetically would fall in love with him, it would be complicated for me, but I think I would persue a relationship, but well, we'll see...

I'm not an idiot, and I won't be fucking around with everyone, it'll be mostly about sexual stress release with this guy, he would be the only one I would fuck with, I would make out with other girls I guess, and eventually I might fuck one of them, but he would be the only guy I would be with, so it could be considered as exclusive, I wanna rationalize this by technicalities, but well.

Hugs
Dseven.

[FunE1]

Tenni-

You said: "for those who can not read or haven't been fucked for over two years" and made similar comments in other posts.

To which I say there's absolutely no need for ad hominem attacks. If you disagree, disagree with a person's argument not some personal fault you have made up about them or assume about them. And putting smiley faces at the end of the sentence or "lol" doesn't make such statements less insulting.

If you want to say that you believe bisexual fuck buddy arrangements don't require/deserve honesty between the partners, then say so (as you have). But just because that's what you believe, doesn't mean those who don't believe that cannot read, haven't been fucked, or don't understand what dseven was asking in his first post.

[tenni]

Fun
We are entitled to our opinions and we share them. From my perspective a person who self admits that they have not had sex in two years and sets themself up as an expert is not reading Dseven carefully but regurgiating a worn out perspective based upon monogamous mainstream experience. Dseven made clarifications on his first post and yet some ranted on the evils of disease outside a monogamous relationship. English may not be his first language and he may be struggling trying to explain himself. He is also processing his thoughts. He deserve more respect than the typical response of be good and here's a cookie that some dish out on this site. People who are living in a couple relationship seem to be rather ignorant of his situation and regurgiate judgmental advice. I disagree with simplistic judgmental views that are spewed on this site. I acknowledge that this is not a bisexual site(at times like this not even bifriendly) and we keep getting these judgmental views expressed perhaps out of ignorance.

It is more a struggle to be honest and how to be honest with himself and this person. He writes about the light blue and orange aspects of morality(that which differs from the heterosexual mainstream).

[void()]

English may not be his first language and he may be struggling trying to explain himself. He is also processing his thoughts. He deserve more respect than the typical response of be good and here's a cookie that some dish out on this site. People who are living in a couple relationship seem to be rather ignorant of his situation and regurgiate judgmental advice. I disagree with simplistic judgmental views that are spewed on this site. I acknowledge that this is not a bisexual site(at times like this not even bifriendly) and we keep getting these judgmental views expressed perhaps out of ignorance.

First, I understand your argument regarding moral platitudes. Starting to become really ill from them myself. Nonetheless, we do need a pinch of common sense.

Second, not everyone involved in long term relationships are as ignorant as you may believe. At times I believe Lord Sean Connery is madly in love with me. This belief does not make it true. One may believe anything.

Third, do you not sense those involved in long term relationships merit respect, as well? Allow me to slide cards across our table for you. Even despite incurring disagreement with you at times, you are something of a friend. I respect friends, even though they may bounce on limbs a bit. Sadly mate, limbs can snap in two. Are you bouncing a little too much?

[darkeyes]

Fun
We are entitled to our opinions and we share them. From my perspective a person who self admits that they have not had sex in two years and sets themself up as an expert is not reading Dseven carefully but regurgiating a worn out perspective based upon monogamous mainstream experience. Dseven made clarifications on his first post and yet some ranted on the evils of disease outside a monogamous relationship. English may not be his first language and he may be struggling trying to explain himself. He is also processing his thoughts. He deserve more respect than the typical response of be good and here's a cookie that some dish out on this site. People who are living in a couple relationship seem to be rather ignorant of his situation and regurgiate judgmental advice. I disagree with simplistic judgmental views that are spewed on this site. I acknowledge that this is not a bisexual site(at times like this not even bifriendly) and we keep getting these judgmental views expressed perhaps out of ignorance.

It is more a struggle to be honest and how to be honest with himself and this person. He writes about the light blue and orange aspects of morality(that which differs from the heterosexual mainstream).

Let start by saying everyone on this planet is judgemental however much they deny it. We try not be but we are.. and so it is only natural that peoples view will be expressed pretty judgementally.. you do it all the time.. there is nothing wrong with it..

No one here is particularly an expert on anything.. we all have things we know more about than others and we all have opinions which we share.. some we keep to ourselves just for the sake of peace and harmony and not to hurt peeps feelings.. but we share what we share to try and let the world know how we think and feel..

.. I havent fucked a guy since I was married to one.. I havent had a one night stand with a guy since before that marriage.. but that does not prevent me from having opinions based on 6 years fucking a goodly number of guys, and another 4 fucking one exclusively.. I haven't had a one night stand with a girl since before Kate and I patched up after a split some years ago.. to say I have forgotten what was learned at any stage and have no right to talk about men and what I learned of them, and girls and what I learned of them is just so much arrogant and rather stupid bull. Things havent changed that much in a dozen or 7 or 4 years....

I can be and am sentimental but not to such a degree that I have nothing to say and nothing to offer. Just as my parents and millions of couples around the world have much to say and much to offer. You may not like it, and you may take issue with it but you cannot dismiss it as just mere regurgitation.. we have lived.. not always as a couple.. but we remember, admittedly sometimes through rose coloured specs, and we even remember wrongly .. but so does a guy or a girl who had a fuck just last night..

I am going out with a friend tonight. Tomorrow or in a few days hence we may well talk about the events of tonight. What we said and what we did. The people we may have seen or even spoken to. The rememberance of tonight to each of us in parts could well be different. It does not make either of us right or wrong. No thats wrong isn't it? Will be different....that different view tells only that we see and remember in part differently what we jointly shared.

You are so dismissive of the experience of others. Your views are not always or necessarily wrong, but everyone has different experiences and looks upon the world differently and what is right for one is a completely different thing for someone else.

[tenni]

darkeyes
Yes, people have experiences and decide upon their perspective often based on their own experiences. When that perspective is given in an advisory position I think that it is best to 'couch" your comments. To come out with "well known" advice about sexually transmitted diseases as a warning to some one who states that they have a fuck buddy situation, it might be best if you are also close to his situation. For some posters, it is like they have a "cheat" button that clicks and they begin handing out advice about honesty, talk to your partner(which was ridiculous to call a fuck bud a partner) etc. like a robot who doesn't factor in the reality or facts as are still being disclosed. Dseven is a young single man struggling with his bisexual issues.

How many of these judgmental posters are /were single bisexual men who have fuck buddy experience?

Dafydd seems to be aware of the reality.

A woman no matter how many fuck buddies that were men is in the same position as Dseven. Some of the "rules" of engagement between male and female fuck buds may be similar but Dseven's situation involved his direct delimna of being a bisexual man who wanted both sexual release with another man all while wanting a relationship with a woman.

As I wrote, read more carefully. Couch your advice if you are or have not lived this scenario of a single bisexual man wanting a fuck bud and searching for a woman at the same time. This is "suppose" to be a bisexual site where bisexual morality should exist. Some refuse to acknowledge that couple morality and fuck bud morality issues are different.

This is in part what I mean when I state that this site is not safe for bisexual men to disclose their life.

[elian]

Okay, okay tenni, you are right, I'm sorry I didn't read more carefully.

dseven, why can't you just tell him what you told all of us here, that you enjoy being with him, you like to play with him and mostly him but you are also interested in finding a woman and see if he is okay with that? He might be okay with it, and if he's not then maybe he's not the one for you.

Either way, what it's NOT okay to do is lie in a relationship like that, I don't care if you're bisexual or not. Maybe if you were like 50 years old, married with five kids and just discovered you were bisexual I could see how this would be complicated but you are young, just starting out and you already know you like both - I see no reason why you would lie other than to make yourself feel in control. If he lied to you first, or you feel that the relationship is one-sided then again, maybe he's not the guy for you but that's not justification for what you are considering. The key to successful relationships, be they friendships or more is good communication, especially when there is more than one "lover" involved.

I'm trying to share wisdom, not judgement - so please don't take this as a personal assault on your character. If imagine that if I was in your shoes I might ask myself the same question and honestly wonder what is the right answer.

..and don't assume that women have less of a chance of STDs.. I know you don't want to hear it, I know you're not a "baby" but just be careful..I'm saying that out of love, not to badger you.

[elian]

How many of these judgmental posters are /were single bisexual men who have fuck buddy experience?



<raises hand>




Dafydd seems to be aware of the reality.

A woman no matter how many fuck buddies that were men is in the same position as Dseven. Some of the "rules" of engagement between male and female fuck buds may be similar but Dseven's situation involved his direct delimna of being a bisexual man who wanted both sexual release with another man all while wanting a relationship with a woman.

This is in part what I mean when I state that this site is not safe for bisexual men to disclose their life.

I'm sorry I didn't read dseven's post closer, sometimes we lose a lot in translation when there is no body language to back it up.

Do you honestly think that fran, as an educated adult, can't tell the difference between a male and female casual partner..? Excuse me, but WTF makes bisexual men so special that they get a free pass?

IF you mean, a bisexual man should be free to struggle with the IDEA of what it means to want to date both men and women at once then fine, I can understand that but when someone asks for moral advice I'm gonna give it to the best of my experience and knowledge. What I say may not be perfect because I am not perfect so OP should take it with a grain of salt.

I *AM* bisexual, and you know what - I'll be damned if I'm going to post here if you want to censor me in that way.

[void()]

Can vouch for elian, he's been fucking around with me.:tongue::bigrin: Our relationship is perhaps a little more heavily emotional on my end. Of course, he is a rather dear man himself and quite tender. Although we're pretty hot in bed too. :) We agreed from the onset, either of us could have other lovers. If he did my feelings were never hurt. I never did by choice. He's more than enough for me. Then again, I'm a one man, one woman sorta guy.

He's only ever spoken in passing and only generally of other 'friends'. Meanwhile, he has been considerate enough to respect I am married. This means I don't carry nasty stuff home to a wife. He doesn't carry nasty things to other lovers from me, either.

That branch? It snapped. You can go hump a wall, bud.

[Annika L]

This is in part what I mean when I state that this site is not safe for bisexual men to disclose their life.

tenni, I would like to point out that at *least* Elian, void, and myself...but also many other posters who have posted advice and views similar to ours...are genuine "no doubts" bisexuals. If you got your wish of a bisexual-only site, or a bisexual-only region of this site, you would still have these same issues. I can only imagine that you would feel just as "unsafe" under those circumstances...although why you feel "unsafe" simply because some of us disagree with you eludes me.

The OP did not couch his question as directed to men-only, bisexuals-only, couples-only, singles-only, recently-sexually-active people-only, people-with-fuck-buddies-only, people-who-are-ok-with-cheating-only, or any other qualification. He asked the site a question. Under those circumstances, I think it is silly to expect that every respondent is going to spell out their specific background and couch their views for you in terms of how their lives differ from the life of the OP.

To some of us, morality is morality...there is no such thing as "couples morality" distinct from "fuck bud morality" distinct from whatever brand of morality you care to name. Lies are lies. So when asked for moral advice, we gave the advice that was *requested* of us in the way that we saw fit. We neither expect nor deserve to be berated or insulted for doing so.

[And some of us didn't at all miss the fact that "this is a FUCK BUDDY". The OP made it clear that the person had expressed a desire to become more than that. So the advice we gave was in fact predicated on that.]

[elian]

He's only ever spoken in passing and only generally of other 'friends'. Meanwhile, he has been considerate enough to respect I am married. This means I don't carry nasty stuff home to a wife. He doesn't carry nasty things to other lovers from me, either.


For the record, you were and are more than just a "buddy" to me, but that doesn't mean I've never had other experiences before I met you.

The truth is the more you sleep around the more chance for disease you have...I have been to some places where all they care about is physical pleasure and those places weren't for me..stains on the walls and sorts of garbage going on. I really like my health, you can be "not wealthy" and still live like a king, but if you don't have your health you really ARE poor. ..so now that I have had an opportunity to understand what I want I make it a point to be pretty monogamous and choose who I am with.

That's not for everyone, especially not for someone who is younger still trying to get experience.

[darkeyes]

Tenni.. let me be clear. For over 6 years I lived the active life of an active bisexual woman.. throughout my marriage I considered myself still bisexual even if I was not actively so except for a very short period at the end. For several years after my marriage ended I resumed the life of a bisexual woman although it took me some time to realise that my bisexuality had passed me by and I had moved on.

Like others I know what this thread is about... I am not stupid... I had several "fuck buddies" in the time both before I married my ex-husband and after the marriage ended, so I know the ropes when it comes to fuck buddies... of both sexes too before I married but only women after. Annika is dead right... there is no couple morality and fuck buddy morality. There is morality.... morality for all, there is little if anything in morality which can be purely bisexual or lesbian or heterosexual when we are discussing sex. We may all have a different sense of morality but morality should not apply only to bisexual men however much you wish that to be the case. The morality of fuck buddies is no different for men than it is for women.. no different whatever their sexuality..

..and just what do you mean by not safe for bisexual men? Not safe from what? Criticism by non bisexuals or bisexual women? There is no site on the net that can guarantee that. You can split this site and its forums into a million different pieces and restrict each part to a million different kinds of people but you will end up with the same result... you will not be free of criticism by non bisexual people and certainly not from bisexual women in yoru brave new world. You certainly wont be free of criticism by from bisexual men either if this and other threads are anything to go by.

It seems to me that it's not that you dont feel safe as a bisexual man, more that you have a very thin skin and don't really like people taking issue with you very much. And I am not just talking about non bisexuals either... Is it a bid for control of debate? A bid for power? I am not sure you will manage either if that is the case.. on the contrary I suspect you will find not a great deal of difference even in any new bisexual only forum.. I am not sure your personality is attuned to enjoying opposition.. and I am not sure what you want is a bisexual only forum anyway.. but a bisexual men only forum.. that seems to be the whole thrust of everything you have ever said..

I know that may sound harsh Tenni.. but it is how I read it.. Elian has the right of it.. what is so special about bisexual men they should be singled out for an easy ride? From what I know of them they are perfectly able to answer for themselves and do.. often very well... you do for a start even if I disagree with much of what you say quite vehemently.. but you can be quite imaginative, constructive and provoke thought.. unfortunately you do have a habit of being divisive which I wish you would lose.. not in the arguments you make but the way you all too often personalise issues and in the cofrontational manner you debate..

[DareMe]

Sorry dude, but I agree. You don't have any morals. Good that you dumped him.

ROFL....

;)

LF

[joshuasfriend]

Black and white, orange and blue, red and gold. Morality is not about color schemes.

You don't like the word "morality." That's ok. It can be called living in peace with other people. Friendship or peaceful co-existence rest on mutual agreements. Without agreements, people fight and live at odds with each other.

Making up a story that does not match reality so that someone else can do what I want is manipulative. It runs contrary to an agreement and threatens peace between people.

Someone else's (mis)behavior does not justify my acting in kind. In other words, because someone else lies, misrepresents the truth, or breaks agreements, does not justify my doing the same thing.

Tell the truth and keep your agreement. If that is not possible, then go find someone else with whom mutual terms are possible.

[Long Duck Dong]

as I have mentioned in the forum, I have a friend that has been a bi/gay male friend for about 20 years, I taught him all about male / male sex... and we have been very close.....

there is no relationship between us or agreement, and indeed he had been married and divorced in that time since we first got together....

I do not deem him to be a fuck buddy as he is more than just a fuck buddy, he has been a very good, long term, dear friend and so I treat him with respect and honestly, I am fully aware of the love he has for me and the fact he loves me.... and indeed I have at times, thought about settling down with him in a relationship that is not hidden from the world and established with understanding and compromise

DD knows about him and they have talked freely and openly and dd is fully aware of the sexual interaction between me and my friend that has happened over the years......and while it have not happened recently as we live in different cities, and I am monogamous with DD, she is aware that if her and me were to take a 3rd person ( male ) into the relationship, it would be him..... as DD and I have talked about it extensively.... as often we read threads in the forum, and apply situations to us and our relationship and how we would deal with issues and resolve them

so in a way, yeah, I know about fuck buddies, as my friend can be considered a fuck buddy by people.... and that means that once again, my thoughts and opinions would be based around personal experience, knowledge and understanding......

[elian]

tenni, I'm sorry if we "just don't get" what you are trying to say, I don't mean to minimise your concerns and I don't want this to be a "let's pick on/pile on tenni" thread but I won't have a double standard of morality for LGBT people and straight people - that's one thing the straights always seem to accuse us of. I'm not quite sure that's what you were trying to say either..

For some people (no matter what orientation) having more than one partner is okay, and as long as everyone knows, agrees and plays safe I don't see an issue. I've also been in the situation where I was so lonely and wanted to be umm.. "held" so badly that I would consider sleeping with a lot more, but in the end I'm glad I didn't..sex is only one part of a person's life, and one part of healthy relationships.

[bullhead69]

dear dickhand, I think you were right. but I think a condimette is for those of us who aren't well endowed.

[tenni]

"[And some of us didn't at all miss the fact that "this is a FUCK BUDDY". The OP made it clear that the person had expressed a desire to become more than that. So the advice we gave was in fact predicated on that.]"

Annika
The fuck buddy wanted exclusivity but still a fuck buddy...not more in the sense of a relationship... nothing more but we won't fuck around with others. That is fine if both parties agree. Dseven didn't want that because of how it was being defined...no dating women either.

The word "partner" was used by some and this is inappropriate imo to be attached to a fuck buddy but posters wrote from their "couple relationship" concept of reality and applied their morality to a situation that I don't think was appropriate. This on a bisexual site that should have a morality that differs to accommodate the duality of our sexuality. The numbers of posters reflecting what I consider a mainstream monogamous monosexual perspective was obvious to me. That is fine for them.:bigrin: They need to recognize we bisexual sluts and not deny that we have a way of living different from this monogamous monosexual more mainstream perspective.

I disagree about their being one morality and it applies to bisexuals as well as monosexuals. The mainstream morality includes "same sex activity" is wrong behaviour. Now, it is slowly modifying to include same sex marriage is "ok but.." in my country but not yet in your country. The mainstream heterosexual morality still includes a relationship between three people is wrong behaviour and especially if same sex people is involved. Fuck buddies are still considered wrong from the mainstream proper behaviour. How can there be one morality for heteros and bisexuals? Only bisexuals who are in monogamous relationships with cross gender fit that morality! You are in a same sex monogamous relationship. Do you accept that you are immoral according to "proper behaviour" as well as we bisexual sluts who get involved in bisexual fuck buddy scenarios?:bigrin:

[void()]

Void hears a soft empty breeze, crickets.

[elian]

I will agree with you that there are plenty of double standards that are created by society, but I still believe that there is only one morality - it's the golden rule - either you treat people with dignity, respect and love or you don't. Even a "fuck buddy" you should at least treat with some courtesy..

The hypothetical behavior I am calling into question is the deceit..not the fucking, I don't have a problem at all if you have *10* partners, as long as you aren't putting them at risk by lying to one of them to get what you want. Like I said before, if everyone is an adult, knows about it and they are okay with it then I don't really see a problem.

Personal relationships, sexual or not have to do with trust, and if there's no chance of someone getting what they need out of relationship then they should know that so they can move on and deserve a chance to be happy.

[tenni]

Elian
Here are the rules of fuck buddies as I understand it.

1/ It isn't a relationship in a traditional perspective.
It may develop into some form closer to what many see as a "relationship". Negotiate or ask about that if you want to.

2/ There is no loyalty to your fuck buddy unless you mutually agree.

3/ Assume that your fuck buddy is having sex with another person.

4/ If you are not available, your fuck buddy may shop elsewhere. Accept it or make an arrangement suitable to both.

5/ Ask questions if you want to know some history of your fuck buddy. Realize that he may lie though. Buyer beware.

If nothing has been agreed to there is no deceit as the person is just a fuck buddy.

[sammie19]

This entire thread confuses me. Is attaching fidelity to a fuck buddy not a contradiction? A fuck buddy isn't a lover in the proper sense but someone we occasionally have sex with without strings and conditions? Or is my understanding of what it is wrong?

I have never had a fuck buddy. There are friends I have had sex with a few times but that was more because it seemed like a good idea at the time or because they or I needed comfort. I agree we should treat everyone with respect and dignity. I am not sure about love. But my understanding of fuck buddies is that they are not in any romantic involvement with each other but enjoy fucking each other sometimes NSA possibly even on a regular basis.

To me this entire thread is mixed up because it is twisting and turning what I understand a fuck buddy to be. Once conditions are attached and fidelity demanded outwith health and hygeine, do we not turn a fuck buddy into something quite different?

[Gearbox]

Well apparently the fuckbudy wanted exclusivity because HE'S happy with just one sex partner. When Dseven refused, he buggered off to have sex with somebody else (exclusively?).:bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

its a personal understanding sammie..... but the base of the whole thing, is lying to people, not the fuck buddy issue..... as the fuck buddy aspect is a personal defination for each people

people will justify their actions using whatever reasoning they can, in order to make their actions right... and that is how you end up with the debate you see in the thread......

most of the people in the thread are saying we are not liers, we will not lie to people or mislead them as we do not want to be lied to or misled ourselves..... so it doesn't matter if its a stranger, a fuck buddy or our partners, we will not lie and mislead people.......

the people that are defending lying and justifying it cos its a fuck buddy... well, you can make up your own mind about them and if you would trust them

[elian]

OK then, well by tenni's definition I've never had a "fuck buddy" - can't say that I feel like I'm missing much because of it..to each their own I suppose..

[Long Duck Dong]

OK then, well by tenni's definition I've never had a "fuck buddy" - can't say that I feel like I'm missing much because of it..to each their own I suppose..

thats the trouble with being a person that is considerate, respectful and mindful of others lol.... you treat people like they are people.... and its why so many others like you so much.....

[void()]

you treat people like they are people.... and its why so many others like you so much.....

I second this. Never understood not treating people like people. Causal sex is not exclusive of respect, for others and yourself. According to some though, I have no grasp of anything. Probably means I am unable to grasp conversing with them, as well. Oh well.

Me no stand some people. Me is 2 slough.
under

[tenni]

The fuck buddy rules do not exclude treating people with kindness, affection and genuine caring....:bigrin:

You can make love with your fuck buddy...usually without emotional attachment though.

Some posters may be too black and white and narrow perspective....judgmental again boys? :)

It can be sad if you invest your energy under an assumption about your fuck buddy when he/she has a different perception though. These rules are protection for yourself as well as your fuck buddy...never assume exclusivity..never assume that a fuck buddy doesn't treat a person with respect.

Good points Sammie;)

This seems to be a concept topic that an asexual would have no interest in?

[Long Duck Dong]

The fuck buddy rules do not exclude treating people with kindness, affection and genuine caring....:bigrin:

Some posters may be too black and white and narrow perspective....judgmental again boys? :)

It can be sad if you invest your energy under an assumption about your fuck buddy when he/she has a different perception though. These rules are protection for yourself as well as your fuck buddy...never assume exclusivity..never assume that a fuck buddy doesn't treat a person with respect.

Good points Sammie;)

I want you, I desire you but there aint no reason I should be honest with you, now don't be sad, cos two outta 3 ain't bad.....

maybe its time meatloaf rewrote the lyrics to the song 2 outta 3 ain't bad

[sammie19]

its a personal understanding sammie..... but the base of the whole thing, is lying to people, not the fuck buddy issue..... as the fuck buddy aspect is a personal defination for each people

people will justify their actions using whatever reasoning they can, in order to make their actions right... and that is how you end up with the debate you see in the thread......

most of the people in the thread are saying we are not liers, we will not lie to people or mislead them as we do not want to be lied to or misled ourselves..... so it doesn't matter if its a stranger, a fuck buddy or our partners, we will not lie and mislead people.......

the people that are defending lying and justifying it cos its a fuck buddy... well, you can make up your own mind about them and if you would trust them

LDD, it must be my mind, but with a fuck buddy there should be no need for lying because it is a convenient occasional no strings attached tryst with a single purpose. Anyone in such an arrangement, is it not unreasonable and unfair not to say selfish to expect exclusiveness? If exclusiveness is demanded by one, has not that person placed restrictions on the other and so turned the arrangement into something quite different?

[elian]

I second this. Never understood not treating people like people. Causal sex is not exclusive of respect, for others and yourself. According to some though, I have no grasp of anything. Probably means I am unable to grasp conversing with them, as well. Oh well.

Me no stand some people. Me is 2 slough.
under

I like your attempt at "stupid-speak" but I know better than that, I happen to think you can grasp things quite well..

<sniggles>

[elian]

thats the trouble with being a person that is considerate, respectful and mindful of others lol.... you treat people like they are people.... and its why so many others like you so much.....

I've had a lot of inspiration over the years..


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAAA30E682314BDBA

and just so you don't think I'm TOO serious..

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3F70766F88B06A38

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD, it must be my mind, but with a fuck buddy there should be no need for lying because it is a convenient occasional no strings attached tryst with a single purpose. Anyone in such an arrangement, is it not unreasonable and unfair not to say selfish to expect exclusiveness? If exclusiveness is demanded by one, has not that person placed restrictions on the other and so turned the arrangement into something quite different?

agreed there should be no need to lie, if a person is honest about what they want..... thats the key right there..... regardless if the other person wants exclusiveness or not, you have the right to say no, its not for me...

if I may be so rude as to use you and megan as a example.... say you want a exclusive casual thing with me, with megans blessing.... you trust me when I say ok and I agree to enter into a exclusive arrangement with you as casual sex partners, no strings attached......

3 months later, you find out that I have lied to you.... the whole time I have been with others...... you demand a answer as to WTF is going on and my reply would be, I lied to you cos I didn't see any reason why I should agree to a exclusive casual situation with you... but I still wanted to fuck you anyway so I lied so I could fuck you....

after I pick up my teeth and realise my balls have been kicked so hard that they now sit around my ears.... you could ask, why did I not say so in the first place.... and again, based around some of the statements in the thread, i could say, its your fault, you wanted a exclusive casual sex situation and thats wrong and selfish of you to ask me if I wanted that too..... you have no right to ask me to be exclusive with you.... its only casual sex, its not like I am your partner and have to respect you in any way....

by this time, my jaw has been relocated to my knee cap and my left leg is rammed hard up my ass.......

you than say, so you are saying that I have no rights at all as a casual sex partner, other than to have sex with you ??? and I would say, thats dead right, you are only there for me to fuck, you have no rights..

megan has called the morgue

as you can see.....

or I could have said at the start, that no thank you, I am not a person that wants to be exclusive, if you want to be exclusive for whatever reason, thats ok.... but I am sorry, its not for me, and I do not want to lie to you just so I can fuck you......

you may have said, I respect the fact that you were honest with me and didn't lie to me and use me.....


the thing is, its not about telling me if I can have other partners or not... its about you telling me, what situation you are ok with in your life....

its the same thing with the aids / hiv argument, do people with aids / hiv have a obligation to tell you if they have the virus, if its just casual sex, no strings attached etc etc...... and most people will immediately say YES, its your right to protect yourself and say NO.......

in this thread, the argument is being used that as a casual sex partner, you have no rights to limit the risks and protect yourself as best as possible ( being exclusive ) and that its ok for people to lie to you... but I am willing to bet, that the same people are in the " honesty * section of the aids / hiv debate and arguing that people should be honest with them and not lie to them.......

most of the people in the forum, are simply saying just be honest all the time, not when it suits you....

[Gearbox]

in this thread, the argument is being used that as a casual sex partner, you have no rights to limit the risks and protect yourself as best as possible ( being exclusive ) and that its ok for people to lie to you... but I am willing to bet, that the same people are in the " honesty * section of the aids / hiv debate and arguing that people should be honest with them and not lie to them.......
In the thread I'm reading, Dseven wants to agree to sexual exclusivity with his fuckbud with the intention of being on the lookout for potential sexual/emotional female partners without his knowledge.

Yet somehow Dseven is being painted as an Aids carrying cheating whore out to kill him.:eek:
Serves his right for asking for moral advice! As with any 'Golden Rule to suit all' it can get way off the beaten track into hypothetical non-practical tangents at the drop of a hat.:bigrin:

The 'Lying' that he proposes is hardly a lie IMO. The impression of 'Exclusivity' being of a long term arrangement maybe one point to blame for the confusion?
Dseven is a lovely, yet confusing/confused bloke. But lets try to minimise that for a change.:bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

I agree with you, gearbox..... he wants advice.......

thats what I see...just a straight simple question....is it ok for me to lie to other people...????

my answer is simply, do you want other people to lie to you and think its ok too ?

I am ignoring all the reasoning... cos people will justify their actions based around what they want and then say they are the victims when the same happens to them.......

yeah its black and white thinking, but lol while I may be part of of the rainbow, some things are black and white.....

thats why I said the hiv / aids thing, it was not aimed at dseven at all
merely to show how people will say, its for us to lie to you, even when you trust us, but don't you dare lie to us, we trust you

[tenni]

LDD
Again, you demonstrate that you are a fish out of water.:eek::bigrin: speaking out of his anal cavity.:tong: You supposedly? have no sex drive and yet you are commenting and attempting to impose your asexual monogamous morality in areas that I'd expect you to have no interest.:rolleyes:

Bisexuals are not all like you. Your interests are not (supposedly) carnal.:eek: We sexual people have such interests. Honesty is not part of the equation in fuck buddy scenarios per sei. You may be honest with a fuck buddy but your fuck buddy may not be honest with you. If you want to fuck you enter the scenario with caution. You may ask for exclusivity. No one is lying per sei, they just are not inquiring. Fuck buddies are not applying for a long term relationship with you. If someone gets involved in a fuck buddy scenario you just need to be aware of the rules of engagement.

It seems to me based on my asexual friend's behaviour/attitude that an asexual would not be interested in this topic but once again we have some big mouthed poster attempting to impose their monogamous morality on to situations that really don't concern a non sexual person...gawd man give it a break. Accept that we are not like you. Lower your moral condemnation. WE are not bad people. We just are not like you and play differently.

No one is forcing you into a fuck buddy scenario. Go and do your preaching in a church or something.:tong: It looks to me that you are attempting to have this site for only monogamous cross gendered coupled people or maybe let the odd monoagmous same sex couple into "your" supposedly bi friendly (not bisexual) fiefdom..lol

Again, I state that it is not safe to post on this forum and this shows why...in part.

as they use to say...peace, love, out....:)

[void()]

The fuck buddy rules do not exclude treating people with kindness, affection and genuine caring....
You can make love with your fuck buddy...usually without emotional attachment though.
Some posters may be too black and white and narrow perspective....judgmental again boys?

Could respond but will not, save to say responding to you is a waste. You have burned the bridge yourself. And you know how. Excuse me, air here is a little musty.

[littlerayofsunshine]

LDD


Again, I state that it is not safe to post on this forum and this shows why...in part.

as they use to say...peace, love, out....:)


It seems often in this forum, that many lose site how a Q & A works.

Part 1 : Questioner asks their question(s)

Part 2 : A, B, C, D Begin to relay their best response to the question.

Where it goes off track is when one of the Respondents, seems to apparently think that their mission to negate some posters consistently, or Argue someone else's opinion tooth and nail, when in the end it 1) doesn't help the OP and 2) Ultimately making their own advice, if any was offered, meaningless. This is a forum, No one can FORCE any opinion no matter how vehemently they defend it. Personal choice has not and can not be taking away. Arguing for the sake of, does nothing positive in the end.

Logically for a 'fluid & safe' forum. One should allow the right of the OP to make their own decision what is valid or not to their own particular situation. The OP having made their post is the one in position for receiving personal attacks if any (Of course none of us wish that to happen) instead of insults and fishtailing taking place between respondent to respondent. Also known as "thread jacking"

Do you get where I'm going with this?

In a general sense, You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.

Sorry for the "detour" now back to your regularly scheduled program.

[darkeyes]

LDD
Again, I state that it is not safe to post on this forum and this shows why...in part.

as they use to say...peace, love, out....:)

It is actually perfectly safe to post on this forum (so long as ur not thin-skinned and can accept being pulled up cos of what u say..).. not too sure it is safe to read it when we get the dross you all too often post.. you have much to offer and you keep blowing it by exposing your personal dislikes for some people.. well just about anyone who doesn't agree with the Tenni Book of Common Prayer.

It gets me when you go on about peeps being judgemental... in protests 'bout what people say and in criticising their judgementalism, there are few on site who are more judgemental, dare I say condemnatory than our Tenni..

Read what Ray says.. makes sense to me.. Read what Voidie says.. makes sense to me an all.. every day I deal with peeps like you.. trouble is not many of them are much older than 14 and they are at least growing out of it.

[csrakate]

I'm still not so sure why we're wasting all this time and energy over someone's fuck buddy. He's a fuck buddy.....is there really a relationship established that would demand total honesty? Have I missed the Fuck Buddy Rules of Engagement?

I know...I am old enough to know better and I'm sure I should be taking dseven out to the woodshed to demand that he act a bit more polite....but I prefer to waste my time and energy on something that really matters....and I personally don't think it's worth all of this over a relationship that is hardly a relationship. Somehow I don't think "Mr. Fuck Buddy" is crying into his pillow because he's not getting total honesty....I do believe he is busy having revenge sex.

[void()]

csr,

Agree with you to a degree. Not the OP which caused the stir w/ me. And the ignoramus whom did no longer does. They have proven time again being an agent provocateur. That ends today. Further, I'm aware of the master and their sock puppets. Those too will no longer function. Bye, Adam.

[Jobelorocks]

Simple answer is if you can't agree with your fuck bud whether or not you two should be exclusive, then you should just break it off. It is fine to have multiple sexual partners, just make sure that they know that you aren't and will not be exclusive unless you tell them otherwise. Honesty is the best policy.

[Gearbox]

csr,

Agree with you to a degree. Not the OP which caused the stir w/ me. And the ignoramus whom did no longer does. They have proven time again being an agent provocateur. That ends today. Further, I'm aware of the master and their sock puppets. Those too will no longer function. Bye, Adam.
Does that have anything to do with Tenni getting banned?
It's a bit of a coincidence, so I'm guessing that you and maybe some others reported him to get him banned, or that you have the power of Drew himself.:rolleyes:

That's your prerogative, but you mention 'Master & Sock Puppets', and that they will no longer function.
As paranoid and vague as that is, it seems like a threat. But to who?:rolleyes:

If I'm one of the 'Sock Puppets' (whatever that is) I'd be very grateful that you address me directly with any threats or whatever you like.
Don't worry! I won't report you, and I don't have a, or belong to, an army of 'Sock Puppets' to report you either. Not in this reality.;)

[darkeyes]

So he has been banned has he? I may have differences with the daft bugger but it would take something a lot more offensive than anything he has ever said to make me even think of reporting him. I don't like bannings. Just as I don't like censorship... in fact I cant think of anything I have ever read to justify someone being banned.. and that includes trollies who are just a bunch of sad wazzocks in any case..

...but I knew he'd been reported.. its in a thread somewhere but don't have a clue if that is the complaint that has resulted in his expulsion from the site.. it was maybe even this one but I cant be bothered to look.. even at his worst Tenni's language and his personal issues with some people did not justify banning.. I dont report people on principle.. I much prefer to use the logic and strength of argument.. banning leaves a dirty taste in the mouth and if we cant take a slagging we should just shut up and sit in the corner like good little girls and boys... running off to the Rector to have wee Jimmy or little Matilda expelled is immature and does nothing for any reputation we may have for tolerance...

..of course it may well be something we don't know about.. something different and altogether more serious..Voidie's parting quip makes me wonder... but he will know what he meant and Drew will know why he decided to ban Tenni..

.. I for one, for all he can act and speak like bit of a tit at times will be sorry to see him gone.. nothing he said justifies it even if he did break a rule or two more than once.. prob lots of us have done that.. but most of us are mature and big enough to shake our heads and laugh at the diddiness of it all... and debate our way through it..

I regret it and think it a mistake.. if it has anything to do with what he has said.. if it is something else then about that I can make no comment except to say I still regret it because he did have a particular view about many things which were in my opinion valuable and valid even if he did very often have the biggest pain in the arse way of expressing them.. and even although I disagreed at least as often as I ever agreed with him..

Yes, I will miss him and think that in his parting, his personal issues with some of us taken aside and out of the equation, we have lost a different animal from the norm and thought on this site has become just a little more bland and unimaginative...

[void()]

Does that have anything to do with Tenni getting banned?
It's a bit of a coincidence, so I'm guessing that you and maybe some others reported him to get him banned, or that you have the power of Drew himself.:rolleyes:

That's your prerogative, but you mention 'Master & Sock Puppets', and that they will no longer function.
As paranoid and vague as that is, it seems like a threat. But to who?:rolleyes:

If I'm one of the 'Sock Puppets' (whatever that is) I'd be very grateful that you address me directly with any threats or whatever you like.
Don't worry! I won't report you, and I don't have a, or belong to, an army of 'Sock Puppets' to report you either. Not in this reality.;)

To the best of my knowledge it has nothing to do with tenni being banned. I have no such power as Drew, only Drew has that power. Again, as far as aware, my comment had no involvement in tenni being banned. I am being honest.

Sock puppets are users created by another. This grants leverage in ability to appear multiple persona. Reasons for such are varied. There are valid and good reasons. Invalid and bad reasons exist as well. On this site we are frequented by trolls.

It is my theory merely one troll exists whom uses these 'sock puppet' persona. Face it, setting up an empty user account here is fairly easy. I have not done so but am capable of seeing the capacity of doing so. It is easy.

As for my mention of these no longer functioning; I will hold myself to higher account. Meaning being more vigilant in noting such persona, not allowing them to illicit my responses. I can ignore them. That too is easy.

[Gearbox]

To the best of my knowledge it has nothing to do with tenni being banned. I have no such power as Drew, only Drew has that power. Again, as far as aware, my comment had no involvement in tenni being banned. I am being honest.

Sock puppets are users created by another. This grants leverage in ability to appear multiple persona. Reasons for such are varied. There are valid and good reasons. Invalid and bad reasons exist as well. On this site we are frequented by trolls.

It is my theory merely one troll exists whom uses these 'sock puppet' persona. Face it, setting up an empty user account here is fairly easy. I have not done so but am capable of seeing the capacity of doing so. It is easy.

As for my mention of these no longer functioning; I will hold myself to higher account. Meaning being more vigilant in noting such persona, not allowing them to illicit my responses. I can ignore them. That too is easy.
Sorry! I was being paranoid there. You can't blame me though. It was a bit of a coincidence and fairly ominous. All it needed was a bit of thunder&lightening and it would have been a Halloween hit.:bigrin:

Now I know what a 'Sock Puppet' is, I doubt the paranoia will fade. I'm not going anywhere near that though!:rolleyes:
I'm no web designer, and I doubt Drew hasn't thought about it, but surely the IP addresses can be recorded when creating an account?

There's only one of me btw. God's little shameful mishap that will never be repeated.;)

[elian]

Aww gear, <nuzzles> you can join the rest of us in the island of misfit toys (that guy over there looks like a 12 speed diesel powered vibrator...)

I would've like to hear a decent argument from tenni in response but instead he chose to directly insult LDD -again- .. I agree with the prior poster that says eventually it just isn't worth the energy.

dseven, sorry this thread went off the rails. I hope you are able to figure out your dilemma - in the end you are the only one who can really know the right answer.

[FinkDoodle]

As apparently one of the few non-judgmental people replying here, I don't think it's really a question of morality at all.

I just think that lying in any sexual situation is a needless complication that usually makes things turn sour really quickly.

If the guy can't deal with being non-exclusive, find somebody else. Keep it simple.

[void()]

"I doubt Drew hasn't thought about it, but surely the IP addresses can be recorded when creating an account?"

Good point and one could think something to be done. There are times something is done. There are times nothing is done. Not saying either way is correct or incorrect. I'm not the one in control, do not know motivations and so on.

Been coming here about six or seven years now. Troll/s on the site the whole time. Frustrates a person having honest conversation. See the authority ban a few, see four times as many pop back up. Becomes not worth effort to discern real people from troll / puppet, not worth even talking. All good lulzs.

Probably ought to as is said, accept troll/s being on a forum. Fine can accept it. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Of course, I could not bother at all. And that's been a prevailing thought recently. "Hi I'm bi, okay luv you bye bye." That pretty much wraps things up after all. We all comprehend having sex, having love. Not much else needing saying.

Then again, just may be getting old.

[MrBisex]

That would be a bad idea. He lay out that he wants to have it exclusive, if you cannot give that to him, then do not say yes and lie. :)

[slipnslide]

Act like a whore get treated like a whore.

[Gearbox]

Act like a whore get treated like a whore.
Definition of a Fuckbuddy! You got it nailed!;)

@Void_Dweller- Sounds like your uninspired in there somewhere. Wait till the big makeover. I hear there'll be flashing lights and everything.:bigrin:

[void()]

Bug lights are great, huh? Pass a beer and gimme my stump jumper boots, yeehaw!

Apologies for such dry humor, feeling physically ill as well as mentally. Got the seasonal crud, touch of bronchitis and night chills. Dosing up with some good O.T.C stuff, resting, hydrating. Also consuming a bit of chocolate. It's a comfy pleasure.

[Darkside2009]

So he has been banned has he? I may have differences with the daft bugger but it would take something a lot more offensive than anything he has ever said to make me even think of reporting him. I don't like bannings. Just as I don't like censorship... in fact I cant think of anything I have ever read to justify someone being banned.. and that includes trollies who are just a bunch of sad wazzocks in any case..

...but I knew he'd been reported.. its in a thread somewhere but don't have a clue if that is the complaint that has resulted in his expulsion from the site.. it was maybe even this one but I cant be bothered to look.. even at his worst Tenni's language and his personal issues with some people did not justify banning.. I dont report people on principle.. I much prefer to use the logic and strength of argument.. banning leaves a dirty taste in the mouth and if we cant take a slagging we should just shut up and sit in the corner like good little girls and boys... running off to the Rector to have wee Jimmy or little Matilda expelled is immature and does nothing for any reputation we may have for tolerance...

..of course it may well be something we don't know about.. something different and altogether more serious..Voidie's parting quip makes me wonder... but he will know what he meant and Drew will know why he decided to ban Tenni..

.. I for one, for all he can act and speak like bit of a tit at times will be sorry to see him gone.. nothing he said justifies it even if he did break a rule or two more than once.. prob lots of us have done that.. but most of us are mature and big enough to shake our heads and laugh at the diddiness of it all... and debate our way through it..

I regret it and think it a mistake.. if it has anything to do with what he has said.. if it is something else then about that I can make no comment except to say I still regret it because he did have a particular view about many things which were in my opinion valuable and valid even if he did very often have the biggest pain in the arse way of expressing them.. and even although I disagreed at least as often as I ever agreed with him..

Yes, I will miss him and think that in his parting, his personal issues with some of us taken aside and out of the equation, we have lost a different animal from the norm and thought on this site has become just a little more bland and unimaginative...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree, perhaps if you had been the target of his abuse, you might think differently.

Various members have asked Tenni, over a long period of time, to stop being abusive to other members, and to two members in particular. He never paid any heed to the remonstrations about his behaviour, but continued on as before.

On every thread that either LDD or DD posted he sallied forth with a personal attack on them. It became boring very quickly. Personally, I have had him on ignore for months because of his behaviour. Who needs it? When I post here on any topic, I expect to be conversing with rational people, not with someone with a personal vendetta to pursue. He was a grown man behaving like a spoilt brat, as such he eventually got the boot up the ass he so richly deserved.

I'm only surprised it took so long.

[Long Duck Dong]

fran

in another thread recently, drew asked for the negativity to stop, and even indicated that he was aware of a ongoing issue within the forum......

tenni started to become fond of quoting rule 2 to other members.... flame the idea, not the person.....and as darkside has said, it got to the point where me posting resulted in a number of threads being changed to a thread with flaming and personal attacks on me...

it was disrupting the forum, pissing members off and yeah, lest we forget victims of tenni, such as rissababy that ended up leaving the site in tears cos of his harrassment....

you may not see any reason why tenni was banned, but many others can..... and much of his remarks on a personal level with nothing short of discrimination against people that have mental disorders, sexuality, are non lgbt etc etc......

so it would appear on the surface that you are very vocal about the treatment of people, yet when it is happening in a place where it should not, you appear to be happy to dismiss it as not a issue..... but fran, people have feelings... and I am not the only person in the site that deals with mental disorders and sexuality questions.....

you want laws passed to protect people, but when its happening in front of you, you appear to pass it off as tennis right of expression and how its wrong to censor people.......

there comes a time for people, where their stances conflict..... the right to expression and free speech, vs discrimination...... and while the argument can be used that I should just put him on ignore, what about all the other people affected by the judgmental / offensive / inflammatory remarks about alternative sexualities and mental health.....

well here is a shock for you, fran, people like me, have rights too, we have feelings too and we do not like being treated like sub human beings either.....
and while you do not see any reason for tenni to be banned.... people like me and many others should not be subjected to personal attacks, harassment, discrimination and abuse..... and since, you do not deem that a good enough reason for drew to act in the site, I seriously question your motives now when you talk about equal rights and treatment for all

[Jobelorocks]

I agree with LDD. I have seen Tenni harass people for all sorts of reasons and for one who quotes rule 2 all the time he sure broke it way more than the people he quoted it to. I have seen him flame people for their sexuality, religious beliefs, mental health issues, and many other things. I believe that people should not be allowed to get away with those sort of things.

[darkeyes]

When people attack others on a personal basis they lose much of the sympathy that exists for their argument.. it is not clever. I understand the feelings of any who have been subjected to personal attack but do not feel that is sufficient reason to ban anyone. Whether you can actually be harrassed in print is questionable in my view.. attacks can make us flinch a bit and hurt our feelings.. but I understand the feelings of those who feel harrassed.. I suppose if we feel it we are harrassed but that is as much of our own making as that of the person we think is harrassing due to our sensitivities.

We all discriminate Duckie.. in some way or other. Whether that is discrimination in a positive or negative manner it is something everyone does every day of their lives. Tenni's discrimination was often pretty negative and offensive and it did not make very pleasant reading too often.. and I have criticised him on more than one occasion for that. That he was too dim to see or even care how he was adversly affecting his arguments and his own personal standing is his affair and now he has suffered the consequences of that less than bright and apparently unfeeling stupidity. They make him appear and sound like a bloody nutter which is something I actually do not believe of him.

People should not abuse personally and you never did deserve the torrents which came your way.. God knows I have been exasperated with you but I hope I have never resorted to just slagging you for what you are, or at least my perception of what you are.. unfortunately not all of us can keep our gobs shut when it comes to personal antipathy.. the question is does it justify banning? There isnt much of his questioning of you or anyone else which could not have been done in ways which eliminated the personal nature of his criticism and probing. But sometimes it seems he was incapable of doing so..

Darkside is only partly right that Tenni acted like a spoilt brat.. I am a spoiled brat so I know what a spoiled brat acts like.. he acts like one who has been hurt, is insecure, has no real belief in himself and covers up his inadequacies by talking tough. Wee Sam I think it was who first picked up that he was not the strong man he made himself out to be.. on the contrary he is really a very weak man who covers his weaknesses in a pretty unedifying manner. His weaknesses make him act and speak stupidly and he often hurt feelings in the process.

I have no motives in being unhappy at his banning other than a dislike and hatred of witchhunts. Equal rights and and treatment for all do not come into play. It is All Hallows Eve in a couple of days and I simply hate witch burning.. no other reason exists other than that. That Tenni was rather fond of trying to burn you is pertinent... because I have always believed that we do not return in kind for hurt received..

I have been witch hunted in my time.. attacked personally and had some pretty awful things said about me and even had things attempted to be done about me.. been hounded quite appallingly.. I have been hurt and have broken down and suffered so I have always sympathised with any who have had such treatment... even those who for one reason or other I do not like and consider my opponents. Once I too would have run off and demanded retribution for such treatment, often in floods of tears... but I am a bit tougher nowadays and since developing that thicker hide, I have never responded in kind I do not believe, to demand of them the price which they wished to extract from me. Lowering myself to the level of Witchfinder General and the witch hunter was never and is never an option.

Tenni was stupid, insensistive and crass and I think vindictive. He hurt feelings and was not always right in his arguments even when he lost the personal. He was repetitive and irksome and a right pain in the arse... I understand your feelings and those of others.. I knew I would be in a minority probably of one.. I dont think being being stupid, insensitive or crass is sufficient reason to ban someone.. a personal view.. not common here I know that.. and as for vindictive.. I look on that and ask myself is that person more on my side than not?? ..and I conclude that Tenni is for all his bluster and bull.. and in respect of vindictive I also like to know just where they are and how they are thinking..

Like Trolls, don't be surprised if we see Tenni return in some form.. whether he learns his lesson is something that we will await with baited breath. I have no intention of conducting a long argument on this because it isn't really pertinent to this thread and is a great distraction. You know how I feel, I do you and probably most others. So I will say no more.

[sammie19]

Come on, Fran. He asked for it. He shouldn't have been such a nasty shit should he? A line has to be drawn somewhere.

[elian]

We are all growing and learning and in a way when you censor someone like that you don't do them any favors because you are shutting off the feedback that we all need to learn to be better people. However, there has to come a point when you realize that people sometimes disregard that feedback, or even worse - use it to enable and strengthen traits that are detrimental to their own health.

That is why I would rather be around people who treat me frankly and honestly than ones who will worship me and say "Yes" to everything I do. I mean, being worshipped is fun every once in a while but If I f'k up I want to know about it because I'm NOT perfect and sometimes I don't know when I'm stepping on other people's feelings - I've had my feelings stepped on quite a lot growing up and I'd rather not do that to other people if I can help it.

I think that tenni had some good arguments to make and may have had some viewpoints worth listening to, in the end he tried to tell me that just because the fuck buddy rules seem cold does not exclude people from making it more than that.

However, when you consistently and constantly berate other people directly for personal attributes, instead of contributing in a meaningful way to the discussion - over and over again - THAT constitutes harassment. It's a drain on the OP and the rest of the community. I might ask you nicely, 10 times to please focus your comments on the argument of the person speaking and not on what you believe your personal opinion of that particular person is.

I would even tolerate a blanket statement such as "All you guys who don't know what a "fuck buddy" is" - but the eleventh time you harass the same individual directly over personal attributes I'd be getting pretty tired of it.

It is true that sometimes people who "bully" do it out of a sense of insecurity - that's why a lot of these trolls I'd like to do the exact opposite of what they'd expect and just give them a HUG .. maybe they could really USE one... If I can't find any common ground, if I can't say anything nice about someone, at least I can say that ultimately all people want to be happy, right?

What I found out later about a lot of the kids who used to bully ME when I was growing up is that is the only place they FELT they had any control, they'd go home and get beat by drunk, abusive alcoholic parents - the same people who are SUPPOSED to be protecting them and loving them. Life can be cruel at times, so I'll forgive them because I know what it's like to suffer.

[Long Duck Dong]

the issue over fuck buddies is a hard one.... you just can not draw a line in the sand and say this is what a fuckbuddy is, everybody must get on the same page and have the same defination... and those that do not have the * right * defination, are wrong....

lol its like saying that all bisexual males have anal sex, those that do not, need to go have it and get with the program.....

to me there is a bottom line, they are people, they may be fuck buddies or life long partners... but saying that people are fuckbuddies, is in a sense a way of saying if we call them fuckbuddies, we do not have to treat them as people, just sex objects.....

the same with lying.... it doesn't matter to me, why you are doing it, you are lying and thats why the argument that its only a fuckbuddy, therefore you are not lying.... is like saying, they are not a person therefore anything I say to them that is not true, is not a lie.... but if I say the same thing to my partner, its a lie......

if others do not agree, i respect that, everybodies definition is different.... but I just can not reduce people to less than human, to make my actions ok... specially if the same actions to a person that would be a person in my eyes, would be wrong......

I apply the thinking that I could be somebody elses fuckbuddy, it doesn't make me any less than human, and I would not like to be treated like I am sub human either.......

in simple terms, its a case of do not treat me like shit, cos i ain't doing it to you.....

[sammie19]

Come on, Fran. He asked for it. He shouldn't have been such a nasty shit should he? A line has to be drawn somewhere.

He may be banned, but I have just spotted him on site. Has he been fprgiven his tresspasses and given undertakings not to be a fool, or are rumours of his demise just that. Rumours.

[void()]

Drat! I had hoped Fran would not have noticed my dog like activities. ;) I have ulterior motives in haunting her. These involve Silly Putty(tm), green Jello(tm), absinthe, a butterfly, a 55 gallon Rubbermaid(tm) bin, plastic wrap, a flare gun, clothes washing machine. Void dons an innocent bystander masque, knowing it likely will not suffice in concealing his wicked little grin.

[Gearbox]

the issue over fuck buddies is a hard one.... you just can not draw a line in the sand and say this is what a fuckbuddy is, everybody must get on the same page and have the same defination... and those that do not have the * right * defination, are wrong....
Dseven gave his definition. That's the page.;)

Nobody would expect you to fit into that arrangement. Nor would anybody stay in one for long if they found it dehumanising to be lied to by a fuckbud.
Fuckbuds by any definition, are not lovers. They are people who you have regular NSA sex with. It's a mutual thing, where being nothing but sex objects/tools to each other isn't a degradation! It's an obligation.

Now if a Friend With Benefits were to lie to you, you'd be entitled to get annoyed.:bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

Dseven gave his definition. That's the page.;)

Nobody would expect you to fit into that arrangement. Nor would anybody stay in one for long if they found it dehumanising to be lied to by a fuckbud.
Fuckbuds by any definition, are not lovers. They are people who you have regular NSA sex with. It's a mutual thing, where being nothing but sex objects/tools to each other isn't a degradation! It's an obligation.

Now if a Friend With Benefits were to lie to you, you'd be entitled to get annoyed.:bigrin:

nods,
based around what you say, a FB is a person that is there for no strings attached, sex, just pure, simple sex......and the argument is that my understanding of fuckbuddies is wrong cos I am applying something that is not there......

" Yeah well, I like him, I enjoy being with him, he's cute and hot, and if I hypothetically would fall in love with him, it would be complicated for me, but I think I would persue a relationship, but well, we'll see..." ( dsevens words, post 34 ).....

its dsevens description of the connection with his fuckbuddy, that is not matching your description of a FB and matching my understanding of a FwB... that I have been questioning....

it appears to me, that the idea of a FB is a person that you can be friends with or not, have sexual / non sexual contact with, have interest / no interest in anything beyond sex etc.... is the one being used in the thread.... and its all a contradiction in terms.. cos thats about 3-4 different statements about what a FB is.......

so i used dsevens description of his connection with his fb.... so how can I be wrong for using the OPs words and understanding.... unless hes wrong....

[Gearbox]

^ Yes there can be emotional developments in a fuckbudy situation. But that is a problem with it, not the aim of it.
The aim is NOT to develop emotional bonds. He also states an agreement that neither can be jealous of other sexual partners. That is a sign of an attachment in a NSA agreement, which is a deal-breaker. That's not what he wants, but what COULD happen.
If both were to start dating, they wouldn't be fuckbuddies.;)

I chat to one of mine often. He popped in once while passing for a cup of tea that we both had with our cloths on. You don't have to treat them like vermin or demand sex on sight to keep it NSA.;)
He's very good looking, amazing body, great in bed, nice person etc etc But we are not compatible for a relationship. We're not 'friends'. We are happy as fuckbudies. It wouldn't work as anything else.:)

[Long Duck Dong]

yeah....

it sounds in all honesty, like relationships in a sense.... you both ( or more ) need to have a agreement as to what the situation is.... be it FB or FwB.....
and have it as a mutual understanding.....

the way you lay it out, gives a far better defination of the connection between you and your FB, and when people do that using a actual situation they have, its a lot easier to understand how they think and see things... and yeah helps me see the subtle differences in people

while it all appears straight forward... its not... there are 3 types of dating that I am aware of......

dating as in going out for a night with a person...

dating as in on going time together sexual or non sexual, but no commitment to each other, IE you can date 3-4 people at a time...

dating as in a sexual / non sexual situation with one person, that are in a non committed / living seperate situation lol....

mainly us terms... lol

the nz term is singular as in going on a date is a single event, but dating is classed as a relationship.....

its what makes it so bloody hard, is I have to think in terms of the country the person is in, then work out the way they think and how they apply the defination.......

in nz its different to the us / uk versions....
FB buddy is a person you have ongoing sex with, and if they are female, they are exclusively yours....
FwB is a friend that wants a on going sexual situation with you, it can also be a emotional / mental attachment, but there is no commitment to each other.... it just * fills the gap * without any restrictions.....

it may make sense now, why I was trying to establish how dseven saw the the situation with him and his FB...lol..... cos of the different understandings of FB and FwB

[darkeyes]

Drat! I had hoped Fran would not have noticed my dog like activities. ;) I have ulterior motives in haunting her. These involve Silly Putty(tm), green Jello(tm), absinthe, a butterfly, a 55 gallon Rubbermaid(tm) bin, plastic wrap, a flare gun, clothes washing machine. Void dons an innocent bystander masque, knowing it likely will not suffice in concealing his wicked little grin.

Just wich ofya orificies do ya want me 2 stuff the bin Voidie? Wicheva.. shud wipe the grin ofya face..:bigrin:

[elian]

^ Yes there can be emotional developments in a fuckbudy situation. But that is a problem with it, not the aim of it.
The aim is NOT to develop emotional bonds. He also states an agreement that neither can be jealous of other sexual partners. That is a sign of an attachment in a NSA agreement, which is a deal-breaker. That's not what he wants, but what COULD happen.
If both were to start dating, they wouldn't be fuckbuddies.;)

I chat to one of mine often. He popped in once while passing for a cup of tea that we both had with our cloths on. You don't have to treat them like vermin or demand sex on sight to keep it NSA.;)
He's very good looking, amazing body, great in bed, nice person etc etc But we are not compatible for a relationship. We're not 'friends'. We are happy as fuckbudies. It wouldn't work as anything else.:)

Right, so that is why I ignored tenni's definition of a FB and just kept on saying what I said - because if there IS some sort of emotional attachment then it's not that other type of relationship is it? Jealousy is an emotional attachment..

dseven, I do find it unreasonable that he would expect you to be monogamous while he sleeps with other people - unless that is what you want - but you seem to make it clear that ISN'T what you want. I know breaking up with people can hurt sometimes but to be honest, I think you can do better, but only you know the WHOLE situation.

[Gearbox]

@LDD- Anything involving two people and sex is prone to complications.:bigrin:
If you were to mention the word 'Relationship' or 'Exclusive' to a FB, alarm bells would ring.:eek:
It's not always easy to see where the others head is at, as the sex can be very loving and intimate, but afterwards the boundaries are up. So 'Sweet Deals' are maintained as best as both can manage.

If I went on a date, I'd expect those 'boundaries' to be down. I'd also expect chocs&flowers.:bigrin: Well no. But it would be ok.:rolleyes:

@Elian-Dsevens FB wanted exclusivity but as FB's. He might be jealous and lying about not wanting him as BF in a bid to manipulate him. Or he might want exclusivity to go bareback in a 'safer' arrangement.
I agree that we don't know the whole story.;) I doubt that both FB's do too.lol

[darkeyes]

....
FB buddy is a person you have ongoing sex with, and if they are female, they are exclusively yours....



Phhhheeewwwww.. bloody right.. knew NZ was upside down... that sorta thing went out wiv the ark.. sexist bull...

[void()]

Just wich ofya orificies do ya want me 2 stuff the bin Voidie? Wicheva.. shud wipe the grin ofya face..:bigrin:

:bowdown::tongue::rotate::eek2::love1::cutelaugh

[darkeyes]

:bowdown::tongue::rotate::eek2::love1::cutelaugh

..and dontcha forget it!!!! Ifya kno wots gud forya!!!:kiss::soapbox::kiss:

[ErosUrge]

whew!...so much going on with this one....I've been gone for awhile as I've been very busy and must say that it is a shock to hear that Tenni has been banned. Though I didn't agree with everything he said, I found a lot of it to be enlightening; perhaps because some things he expressed I feel/felt similar to.

The FuckBuddy situation is one that I'm experiencing right now and with a female friend of 20 years who I will give the letter J to refer to. Things have been wonderful with J and as we've enjoyed our friendship and sex and her full knowledge of me being with my male FuckBuddies. Until I mentioned that another female friend who I will give the letter P to describe and was once in a relationship with now wants the same thing; friendship with sex.

After carefully discussing with J how we wanted to go about things when first getting together to indulge in our sexual pleasure, it was understood that we both had the freedom to be with whoever we wanted. And she knowing I'm bi has absolutely no issues with men. But when it came to P, she protested saying that it was because we both had a personal history together that she couldn't accept it. She said that if it did happen, she would not be able to go on. She stated that she didn't care if I was with women I didn't have a history with, but for some reason, sex with P threatens her because as she put it, she thinks it might turn into a serious relationship. And we did agree that if one of us ever felt more serious towards another and wanted to stop, we would honor and respect that wish. But I have absolutely no intentions of anything serious with P or she with me. Of course, I would hate to stop having sex with J because it is truly amazing sex. Yet, I feel that it was/is unfair after our agreement intially. I am ready to move on if she decides to as I feel it a betrayal of our agreement. I'm not upset or hurt about it as it is what it is. It's really simple; we disagree and will remain friends just the same should the sex stop. We are both very honest to each other about our doings.

I enjoy my freedom and being single. But that's not to say that at some point I wouldn't mind having a significant other. Still, that significant other would have to accept my appetites for being with others outside the relationship and I with hers. I know I know how many of you feel about such arrangements and if you must express your disagreement with it, then have at it. It won't change a thing concerning how I choose to live my life. But do know and understand that there are indeed couples out there who love each other dearly and have that understanding and arrangement with each other. I know for some this is very difficult to understand and will immediately reject it. I have a dear platonic female friend who is monogamous and knows about me being this way. She has told me many times that she cannot comprehend how such a thing can be, but also says that she is in no way ready or willing to judge either. She feels that if two people can indeed be in love and have that understanding with one another, then let it be.

The bottom line is that honesty is imo the best policy always. It seems a little gray at times for some when they are talking about a FuckBuddy or FWB relationship. As I could easily have made a stink about my female friend J betraying our initial agreement, I would rather say that though she never disclosed at that time there were exceptions to this, I accept her not being able to handle me seeing P also. And yes of course, the same would apply if P made the same comments. I've already told P about J and she had no protests. And yes, P knows too that I'm bi and continue to have my excursions with my male FB too....

All in all, we all have our way of doing things...true that FB relationships are not commitments except to have sex and friendship, but no one likes to be lied to....
I think there is a certain type of morality that is imposed at times here, though many of you I feel an affinity for. I know that how I choose to live my life would turn and turns many of you off here. But believe it or not, there are a number of people who can and do love each other deeply while enjoying others only for sex. And some of these couples have been together many many years........

[void()]

..and dontcha forget it!!!! Ifya kno wots gud forya!!!:kiss::soapbox::kiss:

:bounce::bounce::bounce::grouphug::bigrin::smoke:

[jaksprat]

Hi guys, so, probably most of you are going to look down on me for this, but hell, I need a bit of advice. I kinda lack of real "black and white" morality, using the concept of "blue and orange morality" I would say that I kinda posses a "light blue and dark orange morality" which means that I kinda tend to ignore normal "moral rules".

So, I need a bit of help with this conondrum. I broke up with a fuck buddy cos he wanted us to be exclusive (but not boyfriends), I don't wanna be exclusive with him. I'm not looking for a relationship with a guy, but still I like being with him and having sex with him.

I was actually thinking about telling him that I will agree to an exclusive relationship, but in reality I wouldn't be exclusive, but he wouldn't find out, we would both be happy...

So, what do you think??
Hugs
Dseven

How can you be exclusive, but not boyfriends? Hey, why not try the truth. That way the choice is his and he will be aware of the consequences. Forget all the self-righteous, Judeo-Christian mumbo-jumbo on here. We all use people. Anybody that says they do not, are just lying to themselves.

[Long Duck Dong]

Phhhheeewwwww.. bloody right.. knew NZ was upside down... that sorta thing went out wiv the ark.. sexist bull...

no its not sexist bull, it is a F / M version of the same issue in this thread.....and I can not help but notice the change in thinking and opinion, when its F/M, versus M/M, the sexist card is played immediately...

[sammie19]

You don't see anything which can be construed as sexist in your definition of a M/F relationship compared to a M/M?

[alphamale71]

Hey man, I think what you're facing is actually a lot more complex than what people on this page are giving you credit for. If I understand correctly, it's not just about sex, or having sex with other people. It's that your "fbuddy" wants to switch up the original arrangement, and just be exclusive "fbuddies". I get it...I think it's more fucked up of HIM to want to be that selfish than it is of you to feel the way you do.

What I don't condone is you lying to him about that, and than going out to do whatever you feel like. I have read a few of the replies, and someone said that condoms are not 100%. She was right. There is no reward without a risk, and you shouldn't want to even take the risk for just a little reward, and than potentially expose someone else to something you did. Lying to him has a potentially negative (and fatal) outcome. I know you're not looking to go out, and bang 1000 different people either safely, or bb, but still the risk is too great even if you have sex with just 1 other person. Than you're taking the decision on his safe sex practices away from him. If he catches something due to you being indescrete than you're really never going to come out of this whole situation smelling like roses no matter how you spin it.

I say be honest with him, and tell him you don't want to switch the arrangement, and if he doesn't agree than just move on. But I wouldn't lie...the risk is just not worth it. Good luck though.

[Long Duck Dong]

You don't see anything which can be construed as sexist in your definition of a M/F relationship compared to a M/M?

what I see, is a cry of sexist / sexism, when a male wants exclusiveness.....
what I do not see, is such a reaction when its m/m or f/f or even f/m when the female wants exclusiveness

now granted that its a lil hard to make a statement about sexist behievour when its m / and f/f.... but not when its f/m with the female wanting exclusiveness and there have been plenty of threads in the site, regarding that issue..... but we do not see statements about how the female is sexist or that its sexism, do we ??

so I am just a lil curious as to why the quick reaction to accuse males of being sexist, for wanting exclusiveness, but not when its a female wanting the same thing.....

[sammie19]

FB buddy is a person you have ongoing sex with, and if they are female, they are exclusively yours....



LDD, I don't often make accusations of sexism. Sexism does exist and both sexes are prone to it. But I do know a sexist statement when I see it. I am not referring to your sexism but the sexism which seems inherent in the arrangement you outline.

The form of words used and the impression given makes it sexist. What you seem to be saying is that females in a m/f fuck buddy relationship are expected to be exclusive to the male but that the male is not required to be exclusive to her.

If the boot was on the other foot that would be equally sexist, but your post was not referring to that, but specifically what is demanded of females alone in a m/f fuck buddy relationship.

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD, I don't often make accusations of sexism. Sexism does exist and both sexes are prone to it. But I do know a sexist statement when I see it. I am not referring to your sexism but the sexism which seems inherent in the arrangement you outline.

The form of words used and the impression given makes it sexist. What you seem to be saying is that females in a m/f fuck buddy relationship are expected to be exclusive to the male but that the male is not required to be exclusive to her.

If the boot was on the other foot that would be equally sexist, but your post was not referring to that, but specifically what is demanded of females alone in a m/f fuck buddy relationship.
.

part of the issue... is I never said the idea of the female being exclusive to the male, was a stance I supported or agreed with..... as its equal rights, equal choice, something I am vocal about in the site... and the statement about females being exclusive to males, is too vague and obscure for anybody to call it sexist, as they have to assume a lot about the situation in order to say its sexist behievour......

however in saying that, I do understand why a lot of males have that stance..... and its got a lot to do with the number of pregnant females that have no idea who they are pregnant to.... and in a lot of cases, they never know, the child has father unknown on the birth cert......

very few guys want to be stuck for up to 9 months, not knowing if a child is theirs or not.... cos even the best protection can fail... and if the female is exclusive to them, it narrows down the field.....

the point I omitted, was the fact that a lot of guys perfer to be exclusive with the female, as they perfer females that do not want to be pregnant as well..... and the guys do not want to end up being with a female that wants children and does what she can to get pregnant, and then discards the male as a * sperm donor *

no thats not being judgmental of females either..... as there are a number of females I know, including my ex, that are like that..... and many more that are not, they would perfer a relationship with the father, and if its not possible, the father to be in the childs life......

but if wanting a female to be exclusive to a male, is sexist... then why are the females that want males to be exclusive, not being called sexist, by fran ???
not that it matters in the slightest to me....

[sammie19]

but if wanting a female to be exclusive to a male, is sexist... then why are the females that want males to be exclusive, not being called sexist, by fran ???
not that it matters in the slightest to me....

It is the concept as you describe which is sexist, not the individual preference of any single woman or man for that matter. The concept that one sex is expected to be exclusive. I am quite sure, in fact know Fran would agree, that one sex whichever sex it is, being corraled into a concept and the other given freedom to explore that concept with whoever they please is sexist. It is that point we would both agree on.

What you say is that in New Zealand women are exclusive to their fuck buddy yet men who are their fuck buddies arent. That concept is sexist because it doesn't apply to both sexes equally. The reasons for it don't matter.

Women used to be chattels of their husbands for some of the same reasons you give. It was the proprietorial power of the superiority of man over woman. I think we have moved a long way from that position, but what you are saying is that NZ, men still have that feeling of ownership in a fuck buddy context. Sauce for the gander and not the goose? That is just as sexist as if things were the other way round.

[darkeyes]

.

part of the issue... is I never said the idea of the female being exclusive to the male, was a stance I supported or agreed with..... as its equal rights, equal choice, something I am vocal about in the site... and the statement about females being exclusive to males, is too vague and obscure for anybody to call it sexist, as they have to assume a lot about the situation in order to say its sexist behievour......

however in saying that, I do understand why a lot of males have that stance..... and its got a lot to do with the number of pregnant females that have no idea who they are pregnant to.... and in a lot of cases, they never know, the child has father unknown on the birth cert......

very few guys want to be stuck for up to 9 months, not knowing if a child is theirs or not.... cos even the best protection can fail... and if the female is exclusive to them, it narrows down the field.....

the point I omitted, was the fact that a lot of guys perfer to be exclusive with the female, as they perfer females that do not want to be pregnant as well..... and the guys do not want to end up being with a female that wants children and does what she can to get pregnant, and then discards the male as a * sperm donor *

no thats not being judgmental of females either..... as there are a number of females I know, including my ex, that are like that..... and many more that are not, they would perfer a relationship with the father, and if its not possible, the father to be in the childs life......

but if wanting a female to be exclusive to a male, is sexist... then why are the females that want males to be exclusive, not being called sexist, by fran ???
not that it matters in the slightest to me....

Sam is wrong. On the point that it doesnt matter... she is dead wrong... because what you say Duckie is the crux of the matter... what you say is a very male view of things.. guys dont want to be stuck up for 9 months not knwoing whether they are the father? The kinda guys we are talking about dont usually give a toss whether they are the father or not.. they will run away and deny everything.. find, feel, fuck and forget..and many will do anything to get out of their responsibilites.. of course there are irresponsible and less than bright girls out there.. but if guys want their bloody oats and dont want kids then it is their responsibility as much as the girls to make sure that precaustions are taken.. nowt wrong with double precautions Duckie.. if guys don't want kids they will, if they are responsible do everything they can to mke sure they don't have them... not leave sole responsibility with the girl for contraception.. it is something I have always banged on about to girls including my own daughter.. it is their responsibility as much it is a guys to make sure they are honest and if they are gonna get laid by anyone make sure they are prepared and take precautions against the possibility of pregnancy and of course every bit as important, disease.. if a life is conceived it is both parents responsibility and it will (certainly in the case of the vast majority of mothers, sadly less so in the case of many fathers) be with them for the rest of their life. So if either doesnt want a kid they should make sure they dont bloody have one, and if they dont want disease they should do all they can to make sure they dont get diseased...... they.. not just one half of a pair.. they...so guys should do their bit 'bout it not happening.. not all guys are irresponsible and selfish I grant you but far too many are.. but if they arent prepared to be responsible, knickers should stay securely up and cocks stay firmly imbedded in their owners pants...and it is a lack of that attitude and the greater expectation put upon one gender by the other that carries over into the the NZ interepretation of intersex fuck buddyism and forgive me for saying, Christ knows what else....

Yea there are girls who try and trap men into marriage or whatever.. not as many as maybe we think but many do and it is irresponsible, selfish and stupid. Just as it is irresponsible, selfish and stupid of a guy to shag a girl, leave her preggers and then bugger off never to be seen again. Girls do use guys as sperm donors too.. what is questionable is just how many of them really care two hoots about whether they ever are involved with that child or not.. its at least 6 of one there Duckie..... well probably more like 10 to 2 at best.... but then I would say that woudnt I? I leave it to you to decide which is which...

.. but in respect of the rest? Sam is right... it doesn't matter which gender has a general expectation of exclusivity.. unless it is both and agreed by the people concerned.. thats why I picked up on what you posted.. the emphasis was on one gender..my gender.. and thats what makes that expectation sexist...

[dseven]

Okay people! Stop this! I'm not doing it, I didn't cheat on him and I'm ending it tomorrow, so no harm done, okay??
But I'm not doing it because I wanna fuck whoever I want and be free or whatever, he's falling in love with me, and I don't think I can reciprocate, so I'm ending it before it gets too serious and I hurt him.

[elian]

That's an admirable reason dseven.

As you can see the people who post here frequently disagree with each other but in the end hopefully we are all still friends. I think it's perfectly natural to have the feelings you are having - as you have more experience hopefully things will become easier.

Hope you aren't too upset with us..like I said, I probably would've been just as concerned as you were when you started this thread..sorry if it sounded like I accused you of cheating, you never did..

-E

[Long Duck Dong]

It is the concept as you describe which is sexist, not the individual preference of any single woman or man for that matter. The concept that one sex is expected to be exclusive. I am quite sure, in fact know Fran would agree, that one sex whichever sex it is, being corraled into a concept and the other given freedom to explore that concept with whoever they please is sexist. It is that point we would both agree on.

What you say is that in New Zealand women are exclusive to their fuck buddy yet men who are their fuck buddies arent. That concept is sexist because it doesn't apply to both sexes equally. The reasons for it don't matter.

Women used to be chattels of their husbands for some of the same reasons you give. It was the proprietorial power of the superiority of man over woman. I think we have moved a long way from that position, but what you are saying is that NZ, men still have that feeling of ownership in a fuck buddy context. Sauce for the gander and not the goose? That is just as sexist as if things were the other way round.

lets go back to the original remark, shall we...... and can you show me where I said the female is exclusively the males ?

this is what I said........

in nz its different to the us / uk versions....
FB buddy is a person you have ongoing sex with, and if they are female, they are exclusively yours....
FwB is a friend that wants a on going sexual situation with you, it can also be a emotional / mental attachment, but there is no commitment to each other.... it just * fills the gap * without any restrictions.....

where did I say the gender of the second person was male ???? I didn't.....

most FB females that are not exclusive, are known as sluts, not FBs.... and most people that have a exclusive fb female partner, are both male or female and exclusive themselves.......

it was assumed that cos I was a male, that I was talking about males wanting females to be exclusive....... and hence fran labelled it all sexist.......

that is acting in a sexist manner and stinks of sexism..... and fran proved my point about how if its a male, its sexist, if its a female, nothing is said.....

[sammie19]

It is quite clear to me that you were addressing the issue from a male perspective about a male perspective which you say is a truism in New Zealand. The comments which you followed up with in reply to my first post emphasise that point.

[Long Duck Dong]

It is quite clear to me that you were addressing the issue from a male perspective about a male perspective which you say is a truism in New Zealand. The comments which you followed up with in reply to my first post emphasise that point...

sorry, I am not accepting that..... cos you have not proven that its a male prespective.... unless you are trying to say that as a male, I am taking the males point of view of things......

the actual info came from a sexual activities and research study done 2 years ago in NZ.... and it covered the whole of NZ, and there were over 80k respondents.... 53k of them were female... the majority of them indicated that in a casual sex situation ( FB ) most of them would perfer to be exclusive with the other person....

most of the guys perferred a female that wanted to be exclusive, in a FB / casual sex situation and wanted to be exclusive as well

72% of the respondents perferred not to pick up strangers at clubs and nightclubs, if the option was available to have NSA sex with a FB instead....

most of the M / M respondents did not want to be exclusive, most of the F /F respondents wanted exclusiveness with the females but open with males...

the 4 main reasons for exclusiveness were
1) safer sex
2) less baggage / jealous others etc
3) less complications
4) most Fb situations were also FwB's

the majority of females that wanted a FB / FwB situation, were mothers with children.....
the majority of males that wanted a FB / FwB situation were not fathers and have no children....

so how that is sexist and from a male point of view, i have no idea..... cos it was all from a survey and a cross section of society in NZ....

[sammie19]

..

sorry, I am not accepting that..... cos you have not proven that its a male prespective....

..

I can only go by the words you have used. If you mean to say something different to that which you did, try picking your words more carefully.