is there a really a true love in a bi relationship??? [Archive]

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rjiii

Oct 22, 2011, 4:00 PM

Gearbox

Oct 22, 2011, 5:10 PM

I do admire you for expressing your thoughts so openly, but try to understand that to people like me, your view of what constitutes 'love' is perverse.:(
That's your main problem with starting this 'revolution'. I'd blame your age, but many much older than you would 2nd your views.

(genuine love means having a contented mind;not committing sexual relationship with others)
No it doesn't!:bigrin:

rjiii

Oct 22, 2011, 9:40 PM

elian

Oct 22, 2011, 10:03 PM

Men tend to be more promiscuous but there are some people who still want a life long companion and are willing to wait for that..

tenni

Oct 22, 2011, 10:42 PM

The concept of love and what it constitutes may vary from individual to individual. It may be monogamous or poly. As a bisexual man, I do not associate my sexuality with a disease and in particular HIV/AIDS. You seem to. Do you have AIDS? I don't. I'm expecting that the majority of bisexuals posting in this forum do not have HIV. Who then are you referring to who is bisexual and with HIV? Maybe, a lot of bisexuals have HIV in your culture but not mine as far as I know. You hold the opinion that AIDS is caused by perverted behaviour but do not define what is perverse to you? You refer to bisexuals as having a low rate of "true love" again without defining your view as to what true love is.

As a bisexual man I don't consider my behaviour as perverse. I expect you as a bisexual man to accept me for how I chose to live my life as a person sexually involved with others in a consensual manner.

I am capable of loving both men and women. I have loved both women and men. I'm capable of having non emotional sexual relations as well but hopefully in a sensual and caring manner. Is that perverse in your mind? I define my behaviour as moral but it will probably not be your morality.

DuckiesDarling

Oct 22, 2011, 10:45 PM

Sorry, OP, but there are a lot of things that go on in a bisexual relationship and a lot of factors to consider. There can be love that is deep and long lasting and full of content and happiness but there are also little loves as well with friends and in some cases with friends with benefits.

It's not a bisexual problem as you are implying, it's humanity's problem with trying to force people to be a label. There are problems when you have one label for such a diverse group of people as bisexuals are that shows here. There are bi's who are monogamous, there are bi's who are polygymous there are bi's that are not interested in any relationship with either gender, just the sex, ma'am, move on.

So until your target group matches your target agenda, it's gonna fail. Follow the advice of your late Senator and change yourself first, everything else will change as needed.

bityme

Oct 22, 2011, 11:44 PM

I maybe 21 year old bi citizen, but I am aware of the fact that our moral behavior is already diminishing;thus, LOVE IS NO LONGER EXISTING. I am not generalizing this notion though, but statistically shows that out of 10 bisexuals, there are only 2 of them are in a good relationship(genuine love means having a contented mind;not committing sexual relationship with others).

Do you think, if you keep on doing this pervert behaviors, these people will accept us? That is why, together let us show to them that even though we belonged in a third gender, we are still capable of doing and spreading the essence of LOVE.

I agree with Gearbox that your age may be an important factor in the position you express. I do think, however, that it is more the product of your understanding, or misunderstanding, of what love is.

Common, generally accepted definitions of love are:
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.

It seems that your interpretation is different. You talk about temporary relationships and not being content with a committed relationship with another bi person. I'll get back to this in a moment, but first I will address a broader, yet very important issue.

You say you are aware that "our moral behavior is already diminishing." Your comment implies that this is a bad thing. Actually, it is a good thing.

Standards of conduct within many communities are based on morals. Morals are standards based on religious principles. rules, or teachings. Individuals adhering to different religions practice different standards of conduct which they refer to as being moral. Thus, most fundamentalist Christians teach (but not always practice) that a sexual relationship outside of a heterosexual marriage is immoral. The Bible declares stoning as the punishment for a woman who commits adultery and requires that a man whose brother has died is required to marry his surviving wife. Many who practice Islam believe it is immoral for a woman to let her hair or face be viewed by anyone other than her husband or immediate family member and then only in private.

Such standards of conduct may work in small communities where only one religion is practiced, but not very well in society at large.

Standards of conduct in larger societies, especially where more than one religion, or multiple religions, are practiced are often referred to a morals, but the proper reference is mores (mo-rays). Mores are societal norms. Mores are more readily distinguished where they depart from religious morals. For instance the acceptance of non-heterosexual marriages, pre-marital sexual relations, no-fault divorce, outlawing the death penalty. Mores, unlike morals often claimed to have been mandated by God, are subject to change based on the needs of society. Where the morals of two or more religions conflict, society establishes its own More or standard on a given issue (like France mandating that women cannot wear veils). The larger and more diverse a society is, the greater the departure from morals and the greater the emphasis on Mores that work at a given time. So, yes, as it pertains to society, it is a good thing that morals are diminishing.

Back to love. Love is generally associated with feelings, affection, attachment, passion, or desire. Love does not require the existence of sexual conduct, even though people often refer to "making love." The existence of "love" is dependent on the context of the relationship. In each relationship, the depth, breadth, and manner of practicing that love changes. Love is completely different between parent and child, husband and wife, close friends, etc. There is not any religion or society that I am aware of that has set any comprehensive set of mandatory rules or prohibitions to determine whether or not "love" exists in a relationship. It would seem that neither morals nor Mores regulate love.

Your post, however, infers that you feel for love to exist there must be a permanent and monogamous committed relationship. You seem to indicate that "committing sexual relationships" outside of the permanent relationship displays not having a contented mind and constitutes "perverted behaviors." Like Gearbox, I disagree with you on the issue of perversion.

Since you identify yourself as a "bi citizen," is it possible that you are experiencing difficulty in coming to terms with your attraction to others of both genders? I realize what a problem it might be for someone who is attracted to both but feels they must make a permanent, irrevocable election to have a relationship with only one. If the requirement is that sexual conduct is permissible only after the commitment, I know, that I would find that decision to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to make.

An individual who is bisexual deciding to commitment to another bisexual person can result in a marvelous, long-lasting relationship. Being bisexual and having had two long marriages to wonderful bisexual women, I can attest to the fact that it can work. Both of those marriages ended only because I survived both wives. The thing is, neither of those marriages themselves resolved the issue of our bisexuality, the attraction to someone of the opposite gender. That is a completely separate issue from first determining whether affection, attachment, or passion we felt for each other was sufficient to create a desire to have a permanent, committed relationship (marriage in my case).

Bisexuals who commit themselves to another, or marry, then face the need to make a decision on how to handle their attraction to someone outside the permanent relationship or marriage. Each of them handle it either as a individual or they make a joint decision with their mate. Some hide and suppress the desires without disclosure to their mate. Some make the disclosure, but suppress their desires feeling that their commitment them to be monogamous. Some, with or without disclosure, act on their attractions, but hide them from their mate (just like the clandestine affair in a heterosexual marriage). Still others make the disclosure and come to an agreement on the circumstance under which the extra-marital conduct can take place.

In my case, there was a disclosure between myself and my wife. In the first marriage we both disclosed our feelings and decided to explore them together. In the second marriage the disclosure was made before the marriage occurred. In both, the extra-marital sex was almost always with the other present, but never without the other's knowledge.

Did our extra-marital conduct preclude the existence of love between us. In my opinion, NO!!! I loved both of my wives deeply. If the first, or the second, had not passed away I would still be married and utterly devoted to them.

Did we love those with whom we had the extra-marital contact? In my case, my answer would be, No. There were some where great affection existed (interestingly it was always when we had long relationships with other couples and then the affections was for both of them as a couple). In those cases, while others might interpret that to be love, I cling to the idea that love is a forever thing. Most often, however, extra-marital relationships had elements of affection, attraction, passion, or desire, but not what I personally would describe as love.

I'm not sure where your statistics that only 20% of the bisexuals are in good relationships comes from nor whether or not that figure is accurate. If correct, it is not surprising. As you indicate, morals are diminishing. Adaptive Mores are becoming the norm and more people who have been suppressing their bisexual desires are going through the inner conflict of how to handle or whether to change how they handle those desires with greater acceptance of them by society. Those already in committed relationships also face the problem of how, or if, they should make the disclosure to their mate. Just the existence of that inner turmoil puts a strain on their relationships without them even considering actually acting on their desires.

Relationships and the conduct between people is incapable of always being described with a single term. Even saying its "human nature" doesn't seem to work since there are things we describe as "inhumane."

Try to examine "love" and physical conduct separately. You may come to some different conclusions than the sentiments expressed in your post.

The issue of HIV, as well as other SDTs, is completely different. Having practiced responsible, safe, sane and protected sexual contact for over 40 years, I have avoided contracting any. I am, however, intelligent enough to realize that no efforts are always 100% effective, so I get tested regularly to make sure my efforts have still been effective.

rjiii, both you and Senator Roco are correct. We can only change ourselves. However, the one thing that we all can do is be tolerant of, be understanding of, and respect the choices of others (which avoid hurting someone else) and avoid any desire to judge them by the individual standards which we might use to regulate our personal conduct.

Pappy

rjiii

Oct 23, 2011, 2:42 AM

elian

Oct 23, 2011, 5:32 AM

Well, I'd like to consider my bisexual feelings as normal but the rest of society in the US keeps telling me that I am a "pervert". When I let myself be controlled by hormones I often DO feel perverted but I can also be very loving and affectionate. I've ALWAYS wanted to be loving and affectionate - the difference is I just don't care what is between somebody's legs..I'll give them a hug and a kiss anyway. (Well, if I wasn't so shy in public).

I agree with you that a committed relationship is probably the best type to have. I have engaged in "one night" activities before and it can leave you feeling uneasy. However, having said that if you are very inexperienced sexually how do you know what it really means to have sex with another person until you try it?

There has always been a "range" of sexual activity and probably always will be. I lament that some of it is abusive - people really are bought and sold as sexual slaves, drugged, literally beat into submission and there is nothing funny about that at all. It can be very sad.

That is why, like you I hold out hope for a higher standard that sex is born out of love, friendship and companionship. But it might be a mistake to think differently about other people just because they are sexually curious, as long as they ARE NOT being abusive to themselves or others.

Of course what is abuse? I have had sex before that I thought I wanted only to find out it made me feel unhappy afterward - sometimes you don't know until after the experience but I'm an adult and I will learn from my mistakes, hopefully.

Long Duck Dong

Oct 23, 2011, 6:51 AM

gone are the days when you stayed in a marriage for life, and suffered...... unfortunately for many, so too, are the days where you married for love and life long.......

this is the freedom of choice, when the going gets tough, we get divorced......

but we have to be honest, do we really want to be in a situation where casual relationships are not a option ??? where we can try a relationship and see if it works or not... rather than have no options at all........

moral choices are the ones to do with honesty, truth etc... so if people are having casual relationships and not committed ones, its not a break down of morals, unless you want to say that people in relationships, have a moral obligation to stay in a relationship.....

regardless of what society thinks of the way I lead my relationships, I will lead my relationships in a way that makes me and my partner happy, not society.... as my partner and I are the ones that need to be happy with and in our relationship, not society.......

if its wrong for bisexuals to be in casual relationships cos of societies morals, then society can set the example by not having casual relationships themselves, lest they be the hypocrites......

I know a few people with aids / hiv and they will tell you, its not their relationships that ended up with them, this way, it was unsafe sex....... my own sister died in the arms of her lover, from aids and she got it from unsafe sex once with a hetero male, so its not always the bisexual lifestyle that is the issue either..... as unsafe sex happens with all sexualities......

prejudice and biased happen everywhere, all the time, even in this site..... and rjiii, rather than tell us how to live and love, how about you love and live your way, and let us love and live our way, that way we can both live and love and both be happy with our own choices.....

darkeyes

Oct 23, 2011, 7:23 AM

Unacceptable or are biologically undesirable, such as the use of a nonhuman object for sexual arousal, sexual activity with another person that involves real or simulated suffering or humiliation, or SEXUAL REALTIONS WITH A NON PARTNER.

Uhuh.. well hun.. u may well be right... but at the times I was getting down to having it away with any casual pick up, for the purposes of me nookie, that person was to all intents and purposes me partner.. so thats all right then eh?;) But if u think me is parting with Rog or Sybina or ne other of me little toys:eek: u have another bloody think comin'..:tong:

bicplupstateny

Oct 23, 2011, 7:30 AM

To answer your question, there can be, but it's rare. I don't want to generalize about all bi relationships. I prefer to tell you about my situation.

I am bi. My husband is bi. We've been married for over 25 years and we're still deeply in love with each other and have a decent sex life. Neither of us admitted we were bi until a couple of years ago, and neither of us had any bi experience prior to that.

Anyway, a couple of years ago, we started talking about our desires to have bi experiences. We had been monogamous our whole lives up to that point. We decided that if we were going to explore our bi sides, it would be together. We said, "We want to enhance our sexual experience together, not detract from it."

So, we started looking for another couple like us - both bi, strong commitment to each other - for a friends with benefits sort of relationship. We always knew that we wanted our primary relationship with each other to take priority over any other relationships we develop. But at the same time, we didn't want to have casual sex with relative strangers.

Partly in the interest of safe sex, partly because we still value monogamy, we also decided that we would want an exclusive relationship with one couple, rather than multiple partners.

We were very fortunate to find a couple we clicked with almost right away. We quickly became friends, first over the Internet, then in real life. We had known them for at least 6 months before anything sexual happened. By that time we had developed special feelings for this couple. It wasn't the same as our love for each other, but it was special.

Things continued happily for over a year. Then the couple needed to move out of state for their jobs. The sexual part of our relationship ended, but the friendship hasn't.

Now we're looking for another couple for FWB and it's not easy. We've been looking for over a year and it gets discouraging sometimes. We've chatted with several couples on-line. Usually, once we tell them what we're looking for (exclusive FWB relationship), they tell us "thanks, but no thanks."

Occasionally, they agree to meet us for dinner. So far, we haven't gotten past dinner with any other couple. In some cases, there was no physical attraction. In some, we didn't have anything in common outside the bedroom. In a few instances, the other couple's primary relationship wasn't strong enough and they ended up splitting up before our relationship with them could develop.

We get discouraged, but we refuse to give up. We've had a taste of what we want, and we believe we can find it again if we don't give up.

Gearbox

Oct 23, 2011, 11:26 AM

True love is eternal, infinite, and always like itself. It is equal and PURE, without violent demonstrations: it is seen with white hairs and is always young in the heart. If you don't have a CONTENTED HEART and you choose to commit sexual relationship with other person, do you think that is a GENUINE LOVE? Do you think having sex with other person is not a violent demonstration? Hence, contentment is the ultimate result of having a genuine love to your partner. Remember, LOVE CONQUERS ALL, including TEMPTATIONS.
I have the opposite view to you, where jealousy and possessiveness is a 'violent demonstration'. We both would like a revolution.:)

You'll find that people will more readily battle with the outside world, than deal with their inner selves. Instead of confronting insecurities, it's easier to let them dictate to you.
Monogamy is a (festering pit?:rolleyes:) Haven to any who lets their emotional insecurities do the talking.:bigrin:
NOT all!lol It's all about MOTIVES.;)

IMO Loving somebody involves exactly that! Nothing else!!:)
Whatever rules, restrictions, conditions etc you attach to that is solely relationship based. There is a BIG difference.

If you don't have a CONTENTED HEART and you choose to commit sexual relationship with other person, do you think that is a GENUINE LOVE?
If you mean - "Can people have sex with somebody other than their partner and have a genuine love for that partner?", then YES!:)
Sexual contentment has nothing to do with a 'Contented Heart'.

Do you think having sex with other person is not a violent demonstration?
If you have sex with another and it causes your partner emotional distress, then YES it can be viewed as an emotionally violent act.:(
BUT only to the partner that holds that view! It's not in itself any kind of an attack on anybody. The 'attack' is within the mind of the jealous partner, and that has no bearing on the others motives nor aim.

Hence, contentment is the ultimate result of having a genuine love to your partner. Remember, LOVE CONQUERS ALL, including TEMPTATIONS.
You are describing 'genuine love' as those who have no wish or resit the urge to explore life and selves outside the relationship with their partner. That is something of a rarity.
You may think that you can map your life out at your young age (I apologise for patronising!) but please be aware that your Human and more complex than you probably realise.:tongue:
I do wish you find contentment with a partner. But that contentment is liable to sway a little in your future. One day after many years of happy marriage to the woman/man of your dreams, you may wonder if you've explored enough here. Or wonder if you really know yourself.;)
You could choose to forgo all for your partner and resist temptations. Which is neither 'right' nor 'wrong'. But should you feel at ease expecting the same from your partner?

bityme

Oct 23, 2011, 11:51 AM

Yes, I agreed that having sex outside relationship is considered already a pervert behavior. According to the free online dictionary, PERVERT is to cause to turn away from what is right, proper, or good; corrupt. PERVERT IS to put to a wrong or improper use; misuse. See Synonyms at corrupt.Ssexual perversion or deviation. A condition in which the sexual instinct is expressed in ways that are socially Prohibited or Unacceptable or are biologically undesirable, such as the use of a nonhuman object for sexual arousal, sexual activity with another person that involves real or simulated suffering or humiliation, or SEXUAL REALTIONS WITH A NON PARTNER.

rjiii, you seem to be stretching it a little more with this one. Generally, a partner is one with whom another shares or is associated with in some action or endeavor. While husbands and wives are partners, so are two people on a dance floor. We more accurately describe them as marital partners or dance partners. The term partner, in and of itself conveys a permanence limited to the length or time the action or endeavor takes to accomplish. Under the law, a partnership exists only because of an agreement between the parties.

If being a partner requires agreement between the parties, then two, or more, people who jointly agree to engage in sexual activity can be described as sexual partners. The idea of sexual relations with a non-partner can only occur when the parties have no agreement; in other words, rape. I would certainly agree that such conduct is considered an aberrant sexual practice, or perversion.

I certainly cannot agree that society generally considers non-marital sexual relations to be sexual perversion. If that were the case, sites like this and others more specifically designed to facilitate sexual contact between non-marital partners would be shut down by government regulation.

While either religious training or your own personal moral code compel you to feel that non-marital sexual contact is a perversion (and you are certainly entitled to evaluate and establish your own standards), yours are not the standards generally accepted in society at large.

I get them impression from your posts that you are experiencing personal, inner turmoil over you attraction to both genders (you identified yourself as bi). Such turmoil is common. We all seek to understand ourselves. However, when evaluating ourselves, it is also permissible to evaluate the standard we use for measurement. For instance, telling someone that your height is 72 conveys a completely different picture depending on the standard utilized (inches, feet, centimeters or meters).

Pappy

Realist

Oct 23, 2011, 11:56 AM

I can state, unequivocally, that it is possible for a person find find true love in bisexual relationships. On two occasions I've been in caring/loving relationships with couples and I am now in a relationship with a bisexual girl, who is the love of my life. For me, I have no doubt that I have and can find love as a bisexual.

axlton

Oct 26, 2011, 4:45 AM

Many of my friends are engaging in the relationships like this, somehow I noticed that it is just a temporary relationship, since they keep on changing partners. Some of them are having two partners, not contented still committing sexual relationship to other bi people. Is there really a contentment on this kind of relationship? Hence, I am not wondering that AIDS is consider as a catastrophe now a days, spreading very fast because of the pervert behaviors. I maybe 21 year old bi citizen, but I am aware of the fact that our moral behavior is already diminishing;thus, LOVE IS NO LONGER EXISTING. I am not generalizing this notion though, but statistically shows that out of 10 bisexuals, there are only 2 of them are in a good relationship(genuine love means having a contented mind;not committing sexual relationship with others).

Yes love does exist and can exist even in a bi relationship. I currently find myself in a committed relationship in which I am bi and my wife is straight. She is perfectly o.k. with the fact that I'm bi, and has even gone so far as to allow me the opportunity to explore my bisexuality so long as she is present while I'm engaging in sex with other men. I very much love my wife and would not leave her for anything or anyone. Nor could I even begin to imagine what my life without her would be like.

Moreover, what is perverted exactly. Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 different answers. While you may be able to define pervert as:

to put to a wrong or improper use; misuse

There is, nor can there ever be a consensus as to what particular sexual acts are truly perverted as this is by and large a matter of opinion. As long as a sexual act takes place between consenting adults and all involved are turned on by what is taking place then there is no perversion. Although an outsider who is not into such things might find it objectionable, to those involved it is nothing more than a natural expression of their sexual desires. I think society as a whole needs to come to terms with this and realize that we should not judge others based on what it is they like to do in the bedroom.

To a celibate monk or a catholic priest the very act of sex itself may seem perverted. To someone of the mind that sex should only be used for the purpose of procreation anything that isn't vaginal sex might seem perverted. Even vaginal sex using a condom might be considered perverted to such a couple. No matter how vanilla a sexual relationship may be, there is guaranteed to be some activity taking place in that relationship that an outsider may think of as perverted.

Love in a bisexual relationships does exist... Perversion on the other hand does not.

swmnkdinthervr

Oct 26, 2011, 6:17 AM

We have an incredibly loving, secure long term relationship! Our interest in playing with others (either bi or straight) is about sex, love/sex are exclusive of each other in those encounters.

We would have to say your view is skewed by the company you keep, our experience is exactly the opposite. We further submit that age is probably a factor in your assessment also, as we mature in age we begin to develop more lasting relationships/friendship and sex is relegated to second place to the importance of emotional interaction.

Katja

Oct 26, 2011, 10:23 AM

We have an incredibly loving, secure long term relationship! Our interest in playing with others (either bi or straight) is about sex, love/sex are exclusive of each other in those encounters.

Your interest in playing with others may be about sex and not love, but they are never quite exclusive to each other. You may believe them to be, but no one can put their hand on heart and say that what begins as purely sexual will not turn to love. Should this occur between any or all involved, it may well test the permanent relationship to the limit.

There is also something in what you say in respect of the second part of your post, but equally maturity can mean something else. It can mean that dissatisfaction of one partner with the other sexually will make it more likely that one or other, and one can never rule out both, will seek love from the plaything and even find it, thus making the strain on the original partnership quite intolerable.

Love is most certainly possible in a bisexual relationship but the consequences can be very unpredictable.

MrBisex

Oct 26, 2011, 10:39 AM

Of course there is love, But I think it is probably more divided up in a sex and emotional part :tongue:

biinlou

Oct 26, 2011, 12:10 PM

Your interest in playing with others may be about sex and not love, but they are never quite exclusive to each other. You may believe them to be, but no one can put their hand on heart and say that what begins as purely sexual will not turn to love. Should this occur between any or all involved, it may well test the permanent relationship to the limit.

There is also something in what you say in respect of the second part of your post, but equally maturity can mean something else. It can mean that dissatisfaction of one partner with the other sexually will make it more likely that one or other, and one can never rule out both, will seek love from the plaything and even find it, thus making the strain on the original partnership quite intolerable.

Love is most certainly possible in a bisexual relationship but the consequences can be very unpredictable.

This last paragraph sums it all up quite nicel. Well stated. I could not agree more.

Thanks,

Jim AKA Biiinlou

biinlou

Oct 26, 2011, 12:12 PM

This last paragraph by Katja, sums it up quite nicely. Well done. I totally agree.

Thanks,

Jim AKA Biinlou

bi4asplay

Feb 9, 2013, 1:07 PM

My late wife and I were in a Bi relationship for over 25 years. Not one time did either of us play without the otherone there. Thought never crossed our minds. She is the one that got me started in the life style. We were truely in love and if she were still alive we would still be together and most likely still bringing in other guys to play.So yes there can be true love in Bi relationships.