Help Me Understand

[RavenEye]

I continuously see guys (and I'm sure there are girls on the vice versa) say "I can't date guys but I can have sex with them." This baffles me! Is it really "can't date" or more like "won't date"? Are you afraid? Has society brainwashed you so much that you think you must conform to their standard to become camouflage? I realize love and sex don't always go hand-in-hand, but regardless it seems crazy to me that you can just shun away one part of your spectrumjust because. For me, I choose to date woman because it's a choice; because of fear of my family disowning me. Even still I realize I might fall in love with a man, and that love would be greater than fear. So help me understand for the rest of you!

[trentino]

I don't say "can't", but I wouldn't simply because it doesn't interest me ! For me, personally, because of whereever I fall on the hetero/homo scale, romance with a man is not part of the attraction. It's purely a sexual situation for me with another man, and if it's incomprehensible or if you don't believe it, then so be it. From reading through these forums I've come across a number of guys who I estimate feel the same way as I. Everyone's sexuality is unique and varied and societal norms have nothing to do with one's inherent erotic desires and fascinations. With a man it isn't at all about love, purely lust. So far anyway - never say never ! :bigrin:

[Long Duck Dong]

ok... lol.... I generally don't do the one night stand, casual sex thing..... it just feels like I am using somebody, i have no interest in them as a person, just using them for sex...... and thats something that is not in my nature.....

if I wanted another person besides my partner, it would have to be in a polyarmous relationship, a long term term situation rather than a partner with a fuckbuddy, for it to be comfortable with me..... which is why I get amused at being told constantly I am a monogamous / moralistic * preacher * in this site.....

I am monogamous by nature, but its a sense of loyalty and respect to a person and thats why casual sex, is not something that I handle that well..... and it was no different in the army, I was loyal to the other guys and girls in my platoon.....

so for me, no I could not have sex with a person that I would not date....

[bityme]

I continuously see guys (and I'm sure there are girls on the vice versa) say "I can't date guys but I can have sex with them." This baffles me! Is it really "can't date" or more like "won't date"? Are you afraid? Has society brainwashed you so much that you think you must conform to their standard to become camouflage? I realize love and sex don't always go hand-in-hand, but regardless it seems crazy to me that you can just shun away one part of your spectrumjust because. For me, I choose to date woman because it's a choice; because of fear of my family disowning me. Even still I realize I might fall in love with a man, and that love would be greater than fear. So help me understand for the rest of you!

As you can see from just the few posts so far, there is a wide spectrum of feelings about how people perceive themselves in relation to others of the same sex. Some seek both romantic as well as physical involvement, others want only the physical and there are those somewhere in between.

I have been Bi over 40 years and, when it comes to romantic involvement, mine has always been with women (two long marriages). There have been times when my wife and I have had long-term relationships with other couples and we have developed deep affection for them, but I've never had any romantic sparks fly with men like I have with women. I guess Trentino and I have similar outlooks here.

When it comes to sex, the physical involvement is separated from the emotional. That probably comes from years of swinging. Love to me is something that happens with your long term partner and swinging is recreation. When there is emotional attraction to others in the swinging world, it is usually disastrous so you avoid it.

LDD appears to express the other end of the spectrum. He's the monogamous
type and wants a stronger connection than I do.

Everyone seems to find their own comfort level. Each of us has our own preferences. If it works, it works; if it doesn't it doesn't. We just need to respect the preferences of others. When it comes to sex and romance, I never seen anyone successfully change someone else. However, that does not mean that people can't change. We all do over time.

Pappy

[sammie19]

ok... lol.... I generally don't do the one night stand, casual sex thing..... it just feels like I am using somebody, i have no interest in them as a person, just using them for sex...... and thats something that is not in my nature.....



What we always have to remember is that what LDD says has truth in it. But it isn't the whole truth, because while we are using them, they are us. Mutually taking what we want and need from one another is no crime and we should never feel ashamed of it as long as we give as well as take.

I don't fall in love easily. Not in love. Only once, and I am married to her. I have loved several other people, men as well as women, and do not rule out that some day I may meet a man and fall in love with him as I have with my partner. I don't think it will happen but do think I am perfectly capable of it. Loving and being in love isn't the same thing to me.

Sex is luvly and it is fun. Sleeping with a casual aquaintance or someone we have only just met for fun is no shame as long as we both provide what each other needs for those few moments. Shame arrives, or should knock on our door, when we take and give nothing in return.

[Long Duck Dong]

if people read my post as saying that casual sex is using people, and miss the personal statements about myself and how it applies to me.....then they have misread.......

hence I put in the statement about the army to show that my personal statement extends beyond sex, relationships and commitment, so that people will see that its a personal statement about myself ONLY... its not a reflection or judgement on the actions of others...... and nor is it the truth for others......

[sammie19]

LDD, I didn't misread your post. I understood it all too well because when I was in my middle teens felt much the same.

I was sexually active but not in a casual sense. I had one big relationship with Megan but because of circumstances could not be public about it. She knew I was attracted to boys and with me being so much younger and her being unable to commit, I had carte blanche to live my life and have other relationships. She did not want me not to experience a normal teenage life because it was possible she would never be ready or able to commit, or our love would wither and I would end up hating her.

I had boy friends, and had sex with them. They were more than casual, but affectionate loving and fun relationships. Normal for kids my age. Several became sexual which is quite normal too. That I used them to hide my more secret life I can't deny, but I think what we gave each other was what we needed at the time and have no feelings of guilt or shame for that.

In between bfs I often went dancing or to parties and there would meet boys. We would do what most young couples do when they first meet and have some attraction. Dance, laugh, drink, kiss, hug and sometimes arrange a proper date.

Then I did not have sex on a first meeting because I was brought up that way and for precisely the reason you give, the feeling within me that I would be using them for self gratification, but also because (and in my young mind principly because) of the knowledge that they would be using me and that sex was all that was in their mind. I was their sex object. It did not occur to me then that they were mine but they were.

As time went on it was my cousin, a far more free spirit than I will ever be who made me see that there is nothing wrong with using people sexually as long as we do not use them and give nothing back in return.

We use people every day of the week. We use them for friendship but if we are good friends we give them something back in return. Our love and our own friendship and loyalty as well as support and help when needed.

We use people in many other ways and they use us. It is human interraction and cooperation. The word "use" gives off an unpleasant odour, but how we live and interract with other people is using them, if we are decent people, which I like to think I am, we always give something in return.

LDD, I did understand what you were saying. What I was trying to do was put another perspective on it. How I see things, because I don't think it matters whether we know someone for a lifetime or for only a few hours, we can give each other a lot from the treasure chest of human experience. That is my perspective and personal to me and I respect your feelings about one night stands and casual sex but they are no longer mine.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol after reading your post, my choice of the word * use * is the wrong one... self gratification would have been a better choice of working for me to use.....
I would have been better off saying that I have never been interested in getting with people for my own self gratification.. its always been about the other persons pleasure

for me sex has always been about learning, experimenting, understanding, testing the boundaries..... its never been about me or the need for me to cum ( I now know thats the asexual nature in me )

in a sense, thats like asking people to use me, to take them to new heights, new limits etc... and I am ok with that... cos teaching and sharing is something I love to do..... but I do not see it or relate to it as being used... but being asked to help......

[Gearbox]

Well there's different ways of approaching sex. For some (like me) need a level of intimacy and full access to appreciate it. It's kind of greedy in a way, but there you go.:bigrin:
For others, there's no need for anything other than the select body parts and sexual acts to fully enjoy sex.
But ALL fully enjoy what they get, otherwise they wouldn't bother.


for me sex has always been about learning, experimenting, understanding, testing the boundaries..... its never been about me or the need for me to cum ( I now know thats the asexual nature in me )
That's how I view sex too. I only cum because it's expected of me. But it has no importance at all to me. It makes the partner paranoid if I don't.:bigrin:
Maybe it's not strictly an 'asexual thing'? Perhaps more of a 'tantric sharing of energies thing'?
Do you get cerebral orgasms from close contact etc?

[Realist]

Raveneye, as you see, each of us are different.

You too, are your own person. If I were you, I'd worry less about others and concentrate more on your own needs and desires.

I have had both loving/romantic relationships with men and women, as well as being friends with benefits. Like LDD, I am more prone to feeling more emotional and caring about anyone I would have a relationship and being sexual with. I've never had a one night stand with a male, or had sex with one I didn't know well and trust, beforehand. Like Sammie, I feel best when whatever we do is mutual and equally beneficial for us both. Each type of relationship fits the people with whom I interacted.

Some feel that way and some don't.........to each his own.

[rds0108]

While I won't say "never," I do have to admit that I highly doubt I would end up in a romantic, as opposed to purely "friends with benefits," relationship with another guy. Generally, I just seem to connect romantically more easily with women. However, I guess it's possible. I did have one actual crush on a guy, but unfortunately I was much younger and still in denial. Ah, youth is wasted on the young...

[ckman314]

I have of course had many relationships with women Ive had only one long relationship with a man and it was purely sexual the thing I learned most from my sexual relationship with this guy was that I would never be interested in dating a guy that my bisexuality stops at sex I enjoy the company of woman far greater than a guy but the sex is more intense with a man

[darkeyes]

but I do not see it or relate to it as being used... but being asked to help......

Bein asked 2 help is ok wiv me Duckie babes.. if I fancied sum 1 enuff wudda been ok wiv me..

But folk are right.. everyone is different and have different things they want from life sexually and otherwise.. I was ere into the quick fix when it came to sex.. and u know what? I got bored with relationships lasting more than a few weeks so I didnt have them that often... I love my partner with a passion like u wouldnt believe, and she knows how I feel about this.. I don't do the casual thing any more and don't have one nighters.. but God.. do I miss them.. the variety, the fun, the experience, the difference..the breathtaking excitement.. the things we learn... I wouldnt have missed that for the world.. if I hadnt lived and loved as I did, screwed around if u prefer, as lover I wouldnt be half the lover I am today.. I would have missed soooo much and so would my partner...

I once wrote in forums somewhere a few years ago that whenever I slept with anyone, while having it away, there came a point, if the sex was tip top, for a very short while I loved that person.. I gave them body and soul and for a split second or a few minutes they were my world.. I put all of me into that lovemaking... and afterwards while I may not have felt love exactly, there was a bond and closeness which I also would have hated to miss..

I miss that.. and if Kate would agree I would have it again.. but she isn't me and thinks more like LDD.. something has to give and and I'm afraid its lil ole me.. for however much I adored fucking around with the world, it isn't half as much as I do with the girl I love...:)

[tenni]

I am capable of loving both men and women. I am capable of one night stands but more so with one night stands with men than women. I like to know what I am walking into though before I drop my pants either way. I consider myself a sensual lover and so I express a certain physical intimacy or love making even with a one night stand. If a one night stand won't kiss, I may pass. I tend not to do just a bj or such. I won't use someone sexually. I will share myself with someone and hope /expect them to do the same. Maybe that is why I prefer to know the boundaries if it is a one night stand. I will share less of me than otherwise. My preference is to spend time with a person not just in bed.

I don't like the word "dating" if I am with another guy. That word dating, seems to be connected in my head to women. I spend time with guy friends but I'm not dating them. I spend time with guy friends that I have sex with and that is not dating in my mind. We share ourselves at different levels whether sex is involved or not. Just my way of looking at it.

When I begin to start feeling emotional attachment to a man, I'm not sure if it is different than when I do that with a woman but how you get there is different. Society is set up to "date" women (if your a guy). It is more likely that I will know about another guy's sexual interests before actually having sex than with a woman. So, yes men are more interested in the physical sex aspect than "dating" and getting to know the guy. Some bi guys resist exploring physical intimacy let alone emotional intimacy with another man. Emotional intimacy takes longer to establish and a lot of guys would rather just get it on. All of the figuring out whether you are a match seems opposite for men and women relationships for a bi guy...or this one at least.

[firtstella]

I think the biggest issue we face (Men in particular) is the societal paradox of sex and intimacy between men.

For example, purely heterosexual men wouldn't dare call themselves gay if they did not wish to be sexual with another man, even if they preferred to be maximally-invested emotionally or attached/intimate with another guy (which many of them do, in fact crave by nature).

And then there lies the confusion of us men who may be bisexual (or straight, or whatever we prefer to call ourselves) claim that they aren't "gay" or "do not wish to be romantically involved with another guy, and are only about the sex" and who often times appear desperate to consider themselves anything but gay....

Hence we live in a society that produces the following formulas of pure idiosy

Sex with men BUT NO intimacy = bisexual, curious or freaky

Intimacy with men but NO sex= Straight dude with the guys, not Gay AT ALL, just craving some man-bonding
and
Sex + Intimacy with men = Gay

Which at the end of the day makes very little sense and is apart of our twisted society of homophobia and avoidance of anything that could be classified as beyond the boundaries of "what is accepted".

Bottom line: Humans are animals at the end of the day, higher functioning ones. If you add anything more than that (to your thinking process) you come up with the pot of BS as is described above in my post.

I believe that everyone has the potential to fall in love with either man or woman, and even enjoy sex with both. We are living, breathing, PLASTIC human beings that are not designed to uphold such strict boundaries, we are THINKERS, people who have made planes to fly to distant lands....surely we could consider what it would be like to fall in love/touch another cock without the help of "Father Society".

Good Day