Reclusive or an Inclusive Bisexual.com? [Archive]

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 5, 2011, 10:36 AM

I can think of no better site for those who are bisexual to communicate, share ideas, and maybe even meet.

It is also a good place to come if you're curious, not sure what you want, or straight and love someone who is bi.

There are a few gay folks, here, too. I see no reason why they can't be part of the site, too.

Not only that. There are straight women who desire to only be in relationships with bisexual men. There are men who would rather have a straight poly female partner.

There are bi people who don't like a bi of the opposite sex. Who don't want to be half of a bi couple. Or they may be more monogamous in nature.

If you don't allow them a door in, how can the two possibly meet?

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 5, 2011, 10:37 AM

Rayyyyyyyyy! Only name callin asya fluff girl.... an its been ages!!!!!:tong:

Ya kno wer me stands Ray..... kissie:bigrin:

And Ohh How I have missed your tidgies me luffly.

Diva667

Oct 5, 2011, 10:42 AM

Simply put should bisexual.com be limited to bisexuals only?

My answer: No, our strength (such as it is) lies in our diversity.
Having a wide variety of voices here allows us to get a feel for what the world truly sees. It forces us to come to terms with our ethics in the light of a real community instead of a bisexual ghetto. It limits our propensity for "groupthink" and allows for dissenting voices and opinions.

Some folks seem to feel that this limits their opportunities for voicing feelings that may not be popular. However if they cannot voice those opinions here in the relative anonymity of this forum then can they really claim there is such a strong need to express those feelings?

It's the same dilemma often faced by bisexuals and other glbt - When I come out to people what if they don't love me? My answer - If they don't know you how could they have loved you? When you decline to give people an opportunity you are basically expressing your lack of trust in them. You don't trust them to love you, at least not the real you. So you present them with a shadow of your real self and tell them that lie.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that everyone needs to come out right now. But I am saying that it does show a basic lack of trust in the relationship.

It is the same deal here. People who don't want to express their feelings don't trust the rest of us to judge them with any sort of compassion (perhaps rightly so.) However this forum is basically anonymous, so what have they to lose? The respect and admiration of a group of strangers?

If you can't be yourself here, where can you be yourself?

void()

Oct 5, 2011, 11:32 AM

I voted for inclusive. Please allow me a bit of clarification of my post here (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11991). While I desire us off the radar of haters, no desire exists to be wholly exclusive. And yes, I know we need haters and detractors. Without them we could not know love and benefactors. Even more simply, moderation even in moderation. We as people do not need more negativity.
Letting haters, trolls ruin what we create here is negative. For something positive look up resource based economy or venus project in a search engine. Take a little time and explore. Then, maybe we can all come together and start heading in this direction. :)

tenni

Oct 5, 2011, 12:12 PM

The use of language in the thread title and the poll itself indicates the OP opinion. She has a wee bias..:eek:

It is obvious that I believe that there should be a section of this site where bisexuals may discuss issues without input from heteros, gays and lesbians. There may be a section of the site that is open to all members.

That is quite different from being reclusive. What I see is a desire to use this site as a political tool to promote bisexuality and tolerance of bisexuality. That is fine if that is what Drew wants. There are sections of bisexuals who will not be comfortable being attacked by moralistic posters (some non bisexuals) for their sexual thoughts and actions. There is no safe place on this site for bisexuals to talk amongst themself without non bisexuals giving their view. There is no safe place for bisexual men to talk amongst themself. I don't know what bisexual women think. There is a lot of electronic hugs and attempts to support those who are different regardless whether they are bisexual or not. This is not a bisexual site in my viewpoint.

I didn't bother voting at this point. I see that most have a different attitude.

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 5, 2011, 12:20 PM

The use of language in the thread title and the poll itself indicates the OP opinion. She has a wee bias..:eek:

It is obvious that I believe that there should be a section of this site where bisexuals may discuss issues without input from heteros, gays and lesbians. There may be a section of the site that is open to all members.

That is quite different from being reclusive. What I see is a desire to use this site as a political tool to promote bisexuality and tolerance of bisexuality. That is fine if that is what Drew wants. There are sections of bisexuals who will not be comfortable being attacked by moralistic posters (some non bisexuals) for their sexual thoughts and actions. There is no safe place on this site. There is a lot of electronic hugs and attempts to support those who are different regardless whether they are bisexual or not. This is not a bisexual site in my viewpoint.

I didn't bother voting at this point. I see that most have a different attitude.

If you take care to notice, My vote is not listed. There for my assumed bias is not in the results.

swmnkdinthervr

Oct 5, 2011, 4:01 PM

If you attempt to limit this site to bisexuals only the only people that you will be excluding are the "so totally straight that they are homophobic" and the "so totally gay that they are hetero/bi phobic!!!"

Bisexuality spans such an incredibly wide range of diverse interests that it would almost be impossible to make this site exclusive. I would however be against any form of discrimination, isn't that what we're all trying to overcome?!?!

want2havefun

Oct 5, 2011, 4:20 PM

Just how 'bisexual' would you need to be to be included in a reclusive 'bi only' setting? And who would make that determination? And how? Such notions are laughably absurd.

The notion of anything other than inclusive is narrow minded bigotry at the very least, even if just one section of the site. Who needs such ignorance and bigotry! Thats really the heart of all the problems to begin with.

Anyone who feels they need to restrict input from other perspectives and walks of life is likely to stay quite uninformed, narrow minded, stupid, and bigoted.
Seems to me if you are going to 'limit' anyone it would be narrow minded stupid bigoted people. But...there is already a way to do that....its called the ignore button. ;)

falcondfw

Oct 5, 2011, 6:29 PM

void()

Oct 5, 2011, 6:39 PM

Cherokee_Mountaincat

Oct 5, 2011, 7:16 PM

I stand by the reasoning that I have always had. Its a Bisexual site, but over the years it has evolved into much more that that, and this is why that when you go to other groups, BiSex.com is always well spoken of.
We educate via peers, we console, we make people feel good about who they are. They find, like Fran said, a haven here with us, and I for one feel damn good about that. Some folks can talk to us older members to get opinions, input, advice, and friendships...thats the way it Should be.
If Tenni doesnt feel he is 'safe' here, then perhaps he needs to venture off and form his own little band.

I'm hoping Drew opts to keep this a Haven for all. And if those who do nothing but ridicule, complain, and bitch dont like it, theres the door.
:2cents:
Cat

goldenfinger

Oct 5, 2011, 7:20 PM

Didn't vote,,,in this pretend world, how would that work anyway.

Gearbox

Oct 5, 2011, 7:40 PM

Maybe it would be more interesting to ask what ratio of bi's to non bi's would be workable for a bi site?:rolleyes:

elian

Oct 5, 2011, 8:22 PM

I'm sorry that some people feel unsafe to discuss their bisexual issues here, I would like for the site to remain inclusive to all people who are supportive or involved with bisexuals. I guess we could have one more set of threads for "Bisexuals Only" but I wouldn't really know how to police it.

Annika L

Oct 5, 2011, 10:16 PM

Honestly, i just feel sad that this question even has to be asked.
I have yet to see any bi's attacked by non-bi's on this site. Maybe I have missed those threads (thank God). The only ones I see doing any attacking are those who try to scare off the people that don't fit their narrow definition of bi.

Oh, I dunno. I've seen tenni (presumably bisexual) "attacked" by non-bisexuals, with no provocation I could detect in the thread in question.

To be fair, I've also seen tenni "attacking" others, with little/no more provocation than he didn't like that they weren't bisexual (or he perceived that they weren't bisexual).

But I can't say I've never seen a bisexual attacked by a non-bisexual on the site.

I do think tenni should express his opinion in the poll, but I think I understand why he doesn't. Basically, my read is that he favors inclusivity...BUT with the important proviso that he would like one discussion board reserved to be for bi-only discussion. And I understand his reasons for wanting that...not necessarily share them, but I understand them. But if he votes for inclusivity, he exposes himself to calls of hypocrisy...and I don't believe such calling out would be warranted, given his views (as I see them).

So I understand his not voting...but I think the situation sucks. It would have been kinder and more in the interest of true information-gathering if votes of individuals could not be seen.

That said, I do appreciate ray asking the question and posting the poll...I just wish responses were invisible.

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 5, 2011, 10:39 PM

I apologize Annika if my preference of polling displeases you. I didn't make it anonymous for a couple of reasons. One being I knew Tenni would take opportunity to jab, which he did so as expected. Stating I was bias and to my usage of title. If it is clearly seen I have not voted then my bias is moot and a non issue.

Secondly, this poll has no intent of being scientific and whether or not members are listed, wouldn't cause any real differentiation in the results. Members who feel passionately about which ever response will vote that response.

I didn't feel the need to add extra poll options like *Partly inclusive* simply because partly inclusive is still inclusive and it would be up to the site owner Drew in what he chooses to do and what accommodations he would put in place

Someone could simply vote inclusive and state in a comment how they feel it should be made effective or vote bisexual only and if they have exceptions can state that in a comment.

I honestly don't see a way to permanently segregate a specific population(s) from using any particular sub-sect or topic no matter the orientation. One could simply work around and get in and leave their verbial mark.

Long Duck Dong

Oct 5, 2011, 10:39 PM

I am a pro inclusive person...... cos of the nature of sexuality and relationships....and bisexual.com has become a site where many differing opinions can and are expressed daily.......

creating a bisexual exclusive site, means that people have to call themselves bisexual in order to have a opinion, a question etc etc.... there is no room for bi curious or bi questioning....
the argument that there is no other sites for bisexuals is incorrect, cos there is another bisexual site.... and its restrictive as hell, with a high ban rate, and a high drop off rate, as what you are allowed to say, is extremely limited

why people want the same type of thing here, bewilders me.... as it would kill the site..... but maybe its what some people want.... a site where only their opinions can be expressed with no differing opinions.... trouble is, their opinions may be silenced as well..... so its a no win situation

Annika L

Oct 5, 2011, 11:49 PM

I apologize Annika if my preference of polling displeases you.

Ray, there is no need to apologize for that. You do not "displease me", nor should it matter to you if you did. We're different people with different needs and different ways of viewing things.

And your two-choice division makes perfect sense to me...I was never commenting on that.

dman82

Oct 6, 2011, 2:53 AM

If we excluded how would we be any different then those who exclude others?

Caaveman

Oct 6, 2011, 8:55 AM

If we excluded how would we be any different then those who exclude others?

Ditto

csrakate

Oct 6, 2011, 11:34 AM

I don't think it's a matter of who is and is not bisexual that matters. All of us simply need to respect the feelings and circumstances of any poster. They may ask for advice, but they don't need admonishment, chastisement or disdain. When I joined this site many moons ago, I had very clear cut feelings on the subject of people seeking same sex encounters outside of marriage. I used to preach against it....BUT...that was before I got to know some folks and truly began to understand what they faced and the ramifications that "honesty" would bring about. We have to remember that not every situation is the same...not every person experiences the same feelings or has the same opportunities. When someone asks for advice, it's fine to give your opinion, but it's not our place to judge. This really should be a safe haven for someone to seek advice...plain and simple.

And as for the petty bickering that goes on, it needs to stop. I recall a couple of posters several years ago that continued a pissing match for so long that they both ended up getting banned. We are all adults here, so I hope.....let's start acting like it.

Brian

Oct 6, 2011, 11:50 AM

csrakate

Oct 6, 2011, 12:22 PM

I feel pretty strongly that the site should be inclusive.

We've seen a lot of people who are partners of a bisexual man or woman come here looking for information and help in a time of need, and to the credit of the community, you have all provided it in a strong spirit of helping that person during a very difficult and confusing time.

Also I think there is something inherently inclusive about bisexuality. Perhaps because we are in the "between world" of straight and gay. "Exclusive bisexual community" seems somewhat paradoxical to me.
As one of those spouses who came here for help, I can truly say that this site helped open my eyes and enabled me to truly understand my husband and his sexuality. Our relationship is stronger than ever....and we both consider my joining this site as the best decision I ever made. I would hate for another person in my shoes not to have that opportunity.

ErosUrge

Oct 6, 2011, 12:39 PM

I didn't take the time to read everyone's posts to this so forgive me if what I say has already been covered which I'm sure it has. Still, I will add my two cents....

Yes, I think it is important that anyone be allowed in. For those who are curious, for those who are struggling to understand how it is that the person they loved could be bi and turn to this site for insight and possibly guidance, for those who are straight but have an open mind and are making a sincere effort to understand our sexuality, and yes, even those who feel they want to make negative comments here. I am confident that if they were to get out of hand they would simply be banned from this site....

This site offers a place where bisexuality and bisexuals can thrive and communicate. We're a community here. I think that if this site was exclusively for bisexuals, it would be a great dis-service to us and to others who are not bi. We're not separate from the rest of humanity; we're a part of it. If we separate ourselves we're being segregationists. That's a road I don't want to go down. I feel it's necessary for all people to come together and have greater understanding. Let's keep things inclusive here.

jimdawg

Oct 6, 2011, 2:46 PM

I see myself only as bi on occasion. I ID heteroflexibly. I don't appreciate sexual fascism in any form. Inclusive.

mikey3000

Oct 6, 2011, 11:54 PM

Littleray, are ya sure ya didn't mean exclusive or inclusive? Reclusive means someting entirely different.

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 7, 2011, 12:27 AM

Littleray, are ya sure ya didn't mean exclusive or inclusive? Reclusive means someting entirely different.

Nope I meant reclusive. This site is currently open for everyone. To retract from that would be withdrawing from society. Since anyone in society can join as of now.

Exclusive has an air of entitlement and isn't done out of fear/protection. It just doesn't quite fit in regards to what some others have voiced as to why they wish the site to become bisexual only.

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 7, 2011, 12:32 AM

I feel pretty strongly that the site should be inclusive.

We've seen a lot of people who are partners of a bisexual man or woman come here looking for information and help in a time of need, and to the credit of the community, you have all provided it in a strong spirit of helping that person during a very difficult and confusing time.

Also I think there is something inherently inclusive about bisexuality. Perhaps because we are in the "between world" of straight and gay. "Exclusive bisexual community" seems somewhat paradoxical to me.

Thank you Drew for your input it is very much appreciated.

This has been an ongoing back and forth over an extended amount of time ad nauseum.

Now that everyone can see your point on the topic, hopefully there will be less "You don't belong here" or "stay a bit then go somewhere else you're not bisexual". Which many new comers have found disheartening when they come here to seek answers for themselves.

THE GREAT DREW HAS SPOKEN :tong:

djones

Oct 7, 2011, 12:55 AM

Inclusion has helped many non Bi individuals come to deal with, accept, and understand Bi spouses and mates. That ultimately helps the Bi people, so, being inclusive is really a service to Bisexuals in the longer view.

Alloiledup

Oct 7, 2011, 8:15 AM

I just want to add that I am gay as I never have been with a woman ever. But I am seeing a bisexual man for the last 6 years and we have an incredible relationship. For this poll, I voted "inclusive" because I am gay, yet I am with a bisexual man. But at the same time, while straight men are curious of being with other men i.e. bi-curious. Gay men have curiosity too to be with women, also bi-curious. The difference is straight men want to try out with men, while gay men, like myself who have never been in bed with women ever, kinda curious also how it would feel like being with women. It is kinda scary to me just as some straight men get very nervous to be with men for the first time, but it's kinda a different experience altogether. So, many of us are in the curiosity category, just that some tend to lean towards their preference for women, and some tend to lean towards their preference towards men. It is more rare to be exact 50/50 preference for both sexes. Most tend to prefer one gender over the other. :tongue:

Susurrus1964

Oct 7, 2011, 11:31 PM

I think it should stay inclusive, because I know there are hets and homos out there who think a person should choose one or the other.

Besides, my interpretation of the term "bisexual" is pretty broad, so to exclude any would likely be to exclude all.

Not that my opinion is all that important, really, but I'm glad to find that the owner of this site is all for keeping things just as they are...

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 8, 2011, 12:53 PM

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 8, 2011, 12:55 PM

Not that my opinion is all that important,

The only invaluable opinion is the one kept in silence :)

elian

Oct 8, 2011, 2:47 PM

Did I mention that I like the inclusive option too? <nuzzles>

Alloiledup

Oct 8, 2011, 4:58 PM

Oh by the way, some bicurious men are curious being with men and so 2 bi-curious men could get together and play. Or maybe 2 bisexual men who have gone past the curiosity stage and very comfortable with one another could have very interesting sex. But let me tell you, some bi guys would never kiss because they think kissing is too gay, so some bi men have never experienced sex with men who are all out gay. My man whom I have had a relationship for now 6 years said he had never had better sex ever with any previous men or women, as now he is with me who is a gay man. So, if some bi guys out there who thought sex was great with other bi guys, wait till you try out a gay guy. The gay guy is all out for men only and they know how to please men like no other bi men can do. LOL. My man has never looked back and kept telling me how spectacular sex has been since we've met. So, back to this topic, if this site has been only exclusive to truly bisexuals, some bi guys who think they've got great sex with other bi guys, might have missed out a whole lot and never be able to experience with someone who is gay and truly know how to please a man. I apolbgize I cannot comment on experiences about being with straight, gay, or bisexual women cause I never had that experience. I am certainly curious too. :rainbow:

elian

Oct 8, 2011, 6:09 PM

The labels mean less to me than loving someone for more than just what is between their legs..if you really find a connection with someone, that is special.

Gearbox

Oct 8, 2011, 6:39 PM

So, back to this topic, if this site has been only exclusive to truly bisexuals, some bi guys who think they've got great sex with other bi guys, might have missed out a whole lot and never be able to experience with someone who is gay and truly know how to please a man.
LOL! Sorry. But LOL!:bigrin:

I do know what you mean about some bi's not being very sensual etc. But your talking about your BF who IS apparently sensual (likes kissing men and stuff).:rolleyes:
Of course he'll have great sex with you, because you do that kinda thing too.
BUT so do some other bi's. Your sexuality has nothing to do with knowing how to please a man. That's your sensuality, and being with a person that appreciates it.;)

You nor I would have great sex with a bi that doesn't kiss, and doesn't like body contact etc.
He/they wouldn't like us very much. In fact I've put the shits up a few bi's in my time.:bigrin: Almost shed their skins as I hankered in for a little kissy.:bigrin:

To cut it short: NO! Gays are not better at pleasing men.:rolleyes:

Realist

Oct 8, 2011, 7:31 PM

I agree..........It's been my experience that there's as many different aspects of what lovers like, as there are lovers! By meeting here, in this stew pot, we can decide who we're interested in communicating with. I know I've had some great discussions with straight, bisexual, and gay folks, from all ages and walks of life.

Some are similar, but no two are the same. Through communication (which includes listening) I've learned that there really are no two people the same.

I can't say that I'll be happy with a person I've recently met, until we find out what each other is interested, stimulated, and aroused, by.

I enjoy the inclusiveness of this site and have made a few friends, as well as finding the best GF I've ever had! If this site was segregated, I'm not sure I would have met her.

Alloiledup

Oct 9, 2011, 6:16 AM

OK OK, I don't want to alter the original intent of this chain of discussion into which sexual orientation would please men more. This would be an endless debate. The essence of my point was though, if this site had been exclusive to 'bisexual' only, then some men might have a lesser chance to meet some other men on the site who are more 'gay', and have a lesser chance to be able to experience how it would feel like to be with someone who are all out for men (once again I cannot comment on the women side as I never had one). The reality is: we just don't have bisexuals on here. We could all be at one point in our lives 'bi-curious'. Chances are you wouldn't be coming to this site if you are exclusively 'straight' or exclusively 'gay'. You or your other half might have some correlation to curiosity at least with exploring sexually with a gender that he or she have not experienced before. For 'straights', they are bi-curious because they want to try out being with the same gender. For 'gays', they are bi-curious because they want to try out with the opposite gender. Most people I suppose on here are 'straight' and want to try out with the same gender. Just don't forget 'gay' people also have bi-curious tendency in that they want to try out with the opposite gender. So, one could argue also this site is exclusive to 'bisexuals' or exclusive to 'bi-curious' because you've got to first have the curiosity to be even coming to this site if you have never been with a gender you havent tried out before. Just keep in mind that though while one could argue this site should be exclusive to "bi"'s, don't ever forget that BOTH 'straight' people and 'gay' people could be bi-curious, so that exclusiveness for someone who voted 'exclusiveness' is still subject to a rather broad definition of what is 'bi-curiousity', cause one must be curious first before one become truly 'bi-sexual'. In conclusion, being bi-curious can apply to BOTH 'straight' people and 'gay' people. With being first bi-curious, you can never reach the point of being bisexual. So whether you voted 'inclusive' or 'exclusive' all come to the same conclusion, that sexual orientation is just a preference. While you often have 'coffee' (used as an analogy of the orientation that you prefer), sometimes you do want to have 'tea' too (used as an analogy to a different orientation). It's never truly exclusive. And if you are an Asian like me, there is a beverage that Asians regularly consume and is called the 'yin-yang' and it's half coffee and half tea. We like the mix!!! LOL. :tongue:

The Black Knights

Oct 9, 2011, 8:04 AM

I vote for inclusive. I haven't been here very long, but I do participate at times on boards similar to this one that is for specific groups of people (job-related and/or interests) and those other boards have sections for "anything goes" topics. Perhaps this boards needs such a section for non-bi topics, like the one I just read about the new member who is intersexed (Welcome, by the way! I am glad you had to courage to join and post here, which I do know is not easy!)
I am not fond of excluding anyone from expressing their opinions on topics (unless they are specifically trying to attack or hurt someone, especially for no good reason). Opinions, even (most of) of the bad ones do need to be heard, for everyone's education and knowledge. I came across this board by accident and I have learned more about bisexuality from reading the forums here in a couple of months than I have learned in a lifetime. I have been bi-friendly for years, but I never considered myself bi until I met the love of my life almost 3 years ago. Not to speak for her, but I can say she has been bi (and gay)-friendly most of her life and that has helped me more than she or anyone knows.
If the website needs to add extra safeguards to protect the privacy of its members (as best as it can) from the haters and the uneducated out there, then I am all for that. I joined because I liked what I saw and I didn't have to jump through 100 hoops to participate and be respected and my race and age and gender didn't matter. Most of us know that is not so easy. I don't (choose to) talk about my sexuality with just anyone mostly because it is none of their business (and work reasons for both of us factor in too). With that said, some subjects are best discussed only with those who truly understand the subject or truly wish to understand it, due to personal experience and/or otherwise. Don't exclude those who wish to view and participate on this board simply because he or she may not be bisexual(as of today). Those who are bi-curious, and/or who support and/or are involved with a bisexual, even if he or she is not bi themselves (and may never be) deserves to be here too, in my opinion.

Graphfix

Oct 11, 2011, 3:19 AM

Inclusiveness, as indicated, is a sign of maturity, that goes beyond the black and white of political divisions; and bring about unity amongst people that have been or are currently being oppressed in any form. To be inclusive, means to accept the way people are as they are, not just mere TOLERANCE; whereas, WE TOLERATE YOU (meaning we will not kill you because it is against the LAW. Whereas, Inclusivity means ACCEPTANCE, WE ACCEPT YOU (meaning we include you in everything, even if you have a differential opinion or bad attitude towards others (this might not get you to much acceptance by others since no one really likes bad attitudes), does not mean we toss you to the streets to fend for yourself). Other people understand Inclusive as being something else or has a different meaning, that is very cool, because we humans are all different in some meaningful tangible way that many people may or may not understand, but until we do, we need to be inclusive so we may one day find a friend of inclusiveness whereas there might only be a person of only tolerance and hatred.:flag3:

tenni

Oct 11, 2011, 5:44 AM

You may be so inclusive that you do not exist as a bisexual site. If views are being expressed those non bisexuals voices and those with political correctness suppress the bisexuals who do not conform. You will differ in no respect from any other GLBT website. At the present time the number of bisexuals on this site far outnumber the "other" sexualities.

Why not permit a space within the site for bisexual males and bisexual females to speak amongst themselves? This doesn't exclude the partners of bisexuals who are seeking help from posting in the other sections. I do not believe that a non bisexual can be or should present themself as "expert" on bisexuality. What you are really doing Drew is creating a site for non bisexual partners of bisexuals as a priority with your present thinking.

I feel pretty strongly that the site should be inclusive.

We've seen a lot of people who are partners of a bisexual man or woman come here looking for information and help in a time of need, and to the credit of the community, you have all provided it in a strong spirit of helping that person during a very difficult and confusing time.

Also I think there is something inherently inclusive about bisexuality. Perhaps because we are in the "between world" of straight and gay. "Exclusive bisexual community" seems somewhat paradoxical to me.

darkeyes

Oct 11, 2011, 6:17 AM

I do not believe that a non bisexual can be or should present themself as "expert" on bisexuality.

Even one such as me? One who for most of her life was an active bisexual? The strange thing is Tenni, it was members of this site who first noticed my bisexuality had evolved into something different.. it took me several years before my eyes were opened enough to realise that I had become lesbian... and bisexual members of this site played a large part in cranking them open through discussion and argument..

Even experts arent really experts in the fields of human behaviour especialy when considering sexuality.. certainly not lay people such us we.. we may know a bit more about what we are and who we are than anyone else, but we are no more expert about our sexuality, than is a straight person about hers.. or his.. there are far too many imponderables and every human being is different..

Bisexuals are unable to agree what bisexuality is.. or even if it is, some of them..

Non bisexuals are here to learn just as are bisexuals.. because they care, and because mostly they are affected by the sexuality of their partner.. because they are unsure of what they are they have an interest and they have an important input to what bisexuality is.. non bisexuals can sometimes see from the outside looking in what bisexuals themselves are unable to see... thus aiding them in their voyage of discovery.. non bisexuals of course could be just looking to get laid by a couple of girls or guys.. thats ok as far as I can see.. cos there are almost certainly members of the bisexual community prepared to oblige them...

This site will always be a bisexual site.. most people will always be bisexual and the issues which it discusses and argues about will always be prodeminantly about bisexuality and bisexual issues.. that some issues are not in themselves bisexual issues solely is unimportant.. because those issues too affect bisexuals whether it be an upcoming general election or the colour of loo rolls in the office lavvy..

I know you don't agree and thats ok... but you really have to lose this what seems simmering resentment about those who are not bisexual involving themselves in bisexual affairs.. after all.. bisexuals do it to straights and gay people every day of the year in every walk of life.. and if you want to be accepted and welcomed into the world and erradicate distrust and suspicion.. you have to be prepared to welcome those who are different from you into your world..

tenni

Oct 11, 2011, 6:51 AM

"Non bisexuals are here to learn just as are bisexuals"

Those non bisexuals who are here to learn would more than not set themselves up as understanding bisexuality and presenting their beliefs as "expert". I agree that we bisexuals do come here to learn from each other. We may learn from non bisexuals about their perspective and how to relate to them. If the board's voices speak loudest and most frequent from non bisexuals then there is no space here for bisexuals to explore their thoughts without interference from vocal non bisexuals.

Whether this is a site for me as an individual, I will determine. I do not feel safe here but I am a strong vocal bisexual man who can express those feelings of being attacked. Other bisexual men just left quietly. A few remained despite being called trolls for having a differing view etc. This permits the false belief that this is a tolerant /supportive place for all bisexuals. If this is meant to be a "couples" site that is set up for spreading tolerance about bisexuals rather than permitting bisexuals to explore without interference from non bisexuals so be it.

Our world off this board is for most parts the world of monosexuals and in particular heterosexuals.

Diva667

Oct 11, 2011, 10:07 AM

This makes me wonder why the other sites for bisexual men aren't doing better. Why is it a must that you have this space to speak?

I know that most of the bi women(outside of this forum) I've talked to about this site do not linger because it doesn't suit their interests and there are so many other places that do.

And yet (as past polls have shown) bisexual men are a majority on this site.

Why is it so daunting for them to let their voices be heard?

Long Duck Dong

Oct 11, 2011, 11:27 AM

as with any site, you restrict the membership to a select criteria... and you shift the focus on to what you want expressed in the site.......

a prime example is christian sites, that will only allow christian points of view.... as expressed by christians, and christians that do not conform to the * right * opinion, are soon removed......

it is my feeling and intuition that the idea behind a bisexual only area, is that that only bisexuals that * conform to the status quo * may express a opinion and any * dissidents * would be removed as we are not voicing a singular opinion but one that is diverse.......

the trouble there, is that a good part of the forum would be dissidents as they have a understanding that in many cases, is identical to non bisexuals.....

the main issue with being unable to express a opinion without opposition, is the way the opinion is expressed.... and when said opinion is constantly downgrading or singling out various groups or individuals, then it is no wonder that a expressed opinion is quickly jumped upon by people that are more tolerant and accepting of the diverse differences in society and the people that are a part of society.......or the person is ignored as a dissident who has no interest other than expressing opinions that are insulting, offensive and discriminating....

12voltman59

Oct 11, 2011, 4:33 PM

I voted for inclusive as well---I know why the question was asked---because some people have clamored that we somehow make this site a place for "bisexuals only"---as many have pointed out--it is a pretty damn hard thing to pin down precisely what is a "true bisexual."

I guess that if we had to make some narrow and limited definition of bisexuality that is more technically accurate when it comes to bisexuality--a person would have had to have a certain threshold number of true bisexual experiences---meaning they had X number of times they were involved in some form of 3 way that either had two males and one female or the converse of that---if that were to be the case---I would not have been welcome here to begin with nor would I be welcome now---since when I first came here---I was identifying myself as "bicurious" and did finally move on to calling myself bisexual---but with my personal definition of bisexual meaning that I do like to have relationships, sexual or otherwise with men or women---but not necessarily wanting to have a relationship with a man and a woman at the same time---either being sexually or "romantically" involved with them--I am not really all that interested in having a mfm 3 way.

As the way I look at it now---the way bisexuality works out in my life--today I might want to have sex with a woman--tomorrow with another guy---but not to have sex with both at the same time, so that being the case--I guess by some folks' definition of "bisexuality"--I am not a "real bisexual."

To those who want this site to be a place for "bisexuals only"---it is clear that this site is not going to be that exclusive and if you don't like that---I guess you do need to find some other site--but I doubt you will really find exactly what you are looking for because I think this site is probably a very good indication of the degree of variety in what we "bisexuals" ourselves think about our particular sexual orientation descriptor.

Alloiledup

Oct 12, 2011, 8:13 AM

Remember your first sexual experience? Was it with a woman? Was it with a man? OK, so say you are a man and your first sexual experience was with a woman. So, did that make you 'straight'. You're not bisexual then. If this site is exclusive, you would NOT be welcomed to come to this site, as you are 'straight', cause you never had experience yet with the same sex. Our preferences and choices are an evolution process. I would think it is next to zero percentage that one would have both genders in their first sexual experience, and so given the case, you are either 'straight' or 'gay' and you would not be welcomed ever to this site cause you're not 'bisexual'. The whole experience of bisexuality is an evolution process. You really learn your way through that WOW it is nice to be able to play with another gender. Most people on here probably started out 'straight' and became 'bisexual'. A few like me are 'gay' and wanted to try out bisexuality. So, let's not be close minded and say the word 'exclusiveness' ever, cause you would have excluded yourself to this site if you are that close minded. You would not have been welcomed or accepted if your first sexual experience was a 'straight' experience or 'gay' experience, cause you would not be right for the true 'bisexuals'. And what is a true 'bisexual'? The whole experience of bisexuality is an evolution. Be real!!! Be authentic!!! I bet very few people on here started out as a 'bisexual' with sex with both genders in their very first sexual encounter. :rolleyes:

drugstore cowboy

Oct 12, 2011, 6:57 PM

Remember your first sexual experience? :rolleyes:

Clearly you don't understand bisexuality.

You don't have to have had sex with both genders at the same time in order to be bisexual. I knew that I was bisexual long before I'd had sex with anyone and it's like this for most bisexuals.

You also are not understanding the whole "bisexual only" option for the poll, and this site.

I think that this site should stay a site that's actually for bisexuals as there are tons of GLBT sites, sites for gay men, and sites for lesbian women out there but very few if any for bisexuals or that focus on bisexuality like this site does.

Alloiledup

Oct 13, 2011, 8:48 AM

You dont have to have sex with both gender to be bisexual. As for myself, I only have had sex with men my entire life, but I can also say I am bisexual then because I am attracted to both sexes but I have not had sex with a woman yet, but I am bisexual. Somehow people label me as gay!!! So, was it their mistake?!? Because how could you say then I am gay, straight, or bisexual if there is no global definition of it. I am NOT gay. People just label me as such because I have not yet had sex with a woman just yet, but mentally I am bisexual. So, it boils down to your definition then what is bisexuality. It boils down people are resorting to labels and stereotypes. By your argument, you cannot say I am gay, just because I have not had sex with women yet. It is totally ridiculous don't you think that you can loosely label people into a category. What is bisexual? I am bisexual by your definition even if I have the slightest tendency to enjoy being with women without the act. Forget those labels!!! :rolleyes:

Gearbox

Oct 13, 2011, 10:08 AM

Somehow people label me as gay!!
Yes! That was YOU a few posts ago!:tongue:

Remember? You were gay, and as a gay you were 'All Out' to please a man, which no bisexual is?
Which begs the question, "Why the Hell are you with a bi man for 6years?".:eek:
And now that your suddenly bi yourself, do you think your bf should be notified to expect a sudden half arsed interest in pleasing him?:bigrin:

Btw shouldn't we all be asexual if we cum on our own the first time?:tong:

Your not helping the 'Inclusive' argument at all. Put your eraser away and have a lay down.;)

Alloiledup

Oct 13, 2011, 9:48 PM

Aha!!! I'm telling you. You can't win by your 'exclusiveness' argument causer it is not working. Yes I was 'gay' on Monday cause I had no sexual attraction to women, I am 'bi' today cause I have sexual attraction to women today, I have and would continue to evolve in a continum. I don't go by labels. I was only trying to illustrate a point to people who think they are so different or so exclusive a society of bisexuals. I could be totally gay yesterday cause I had no feeling for women, but whether I have had sex with women, I can be bisexual today cause I start having curiosity and feeling for women. So, I continue to evolve. And with continual evolvement, I might hate men altogether and become 'straight'. So, please forget labels, cause I was trying to illustrate that being gay or straight today does not mean you cannot evolve to become bisexual, and being bisexual today does not mean you cannot evolve to become totally gay or straight. Sexuality is far from being a constant. Bisexuality is a continual evolving process. You know when you fill out a profile on here, you fill out a scale, so does a 3 on the scale really make you less bisexual than someone who rated themselves with a scale of 4? I rated myself now with a scale of 6, cause as a 'gay' person, I am bi curiosity. I am therefore a bisexual. I did rate myself with a 7 on the scale before but because my curiosity was so miniscue that it was so insignificant to mention, but my curiosity has grown. So, in conclusion:

1) Please don't label people - this is a site full of open minded people except a few 20% closed minded people;
2) Please stop saying don't understand bisexuality - cause you expose only how narrow minded you are cause you dont get it that bisexuality is an evolving process;
3) Please understand that it is extremely rare that we all started out our first sexual experience with both sexes, so if you can be bisexual without having sex with either sex, then the argument does exist that I could be bisexual along cause in some ways I am attracted to women even though I have not had a sexual encounter with one yet. It is all an inclination. Sometimes I see a gorgeous man and I would tell myself I am definitely gay, but have I got a raging hard-on with the sight of a beautiful woman before? Absolutely I had!!! It's only a preference that I still prefer men. So, I evolved. Sometimes I feel absolutely gay, and sometimes I am bi.
4) the fact that you are rated a 4 does not make you more bisexual than a 3 or less bisexual than a 5.
5) that while 'straight' people have curiosity with same sex gender, it is not exclusive, 'gay' people can also have curiosity with the opposite gender.

And by the way, i pleased my bisexual lover in unprecedented ways. He never had better sex with anyone, cause I am all out gay. Now, even if i may have curiosity for sex with women, it did not lessen my gayness!!!! I am super gay and super bicurious. I can multi task!!!!! I am not like some people who can only think in a 'straight' line!!!! I can be someone multi-dimensional just like my sexuality. :rolleyes:

Annika L

Oct 13, 2011, 10:03 PM

1) Please don't label people - this is a site full of open minded people except a few 20% closed minded people;

That sounds suspiciously like labeling people.

Yes I was 'gay' on Monday cause I had no sexual attraction to women, I am 'bi' today cause I have sexual attraction to women today.

...

He never had better sex with anyone, cause I am all out gay. Now, even if i may have curiosity for sex with women, it did not lessen my gayness!!!! I am super gay and super bicurious.

You appear to me to have a very nonstandard definition of "gay". That's ok...as humans we have the power to use words differently. But if you use a word in a way that most people do not, don't be surprised when people don't understand you.

Alloiledup

Oct 13, 2011, 10:29 PM

Just want to make it very clear, I am only using labels to illustrate a point because that's what people tend to associate with. But I truly believe in not labelling people. 'Gay', 'Bi', 'Straight' are all people. Equal rights. Afterall, we all pay taxes. We all have the same destiny when our journey on this earth are over. Because some people on here are really not open minded (if you want to say this is a label so be it), I was only trying to illustrate. I totally believe in equal human rights. I believe freedom of expression even though I may not agree with you. Feel free to disagree with me, however, I will voice in return. My whole position is: bisexuality is an evolution process, so don't exclude cause you never know you have excluded at some point in your life, cause bisexuality evolves over time. I am really sooooo 'gay' cause as a male I love men. But I am also soooooo 'bisexual' cause while I have not had sex with women, I always have that curiosity. So, what's the use of labels. Once again, I am just using these labels to illustrate a point. We cannot exclude people cause no one can definitely say they are more or less 'bisexual' than his fellow human being. We are evolve, and that is the beauty of life! :three:

DuckiesDarling

Oct 13, 2011, 10:38 PM

I, of course, voted for Inclusive. I'm straight and involved with a bisexual male, he sent me here to look at a profile, I had to log in to view profiles so I joined. It was his profile with the only picture I'd seen of him. At that point we were just friends on the way to something more and he was sharing not only the fact he was bisexual but a glimpse into how he interacted with other members of the LGBT and their partners and friends who are supportive.

For a long time this place has been one of the most visited sites on the net for me, because here I found many people who feel the same as me. They are more concerned about the PERSON rather than the sexuality of the person. I have made many friends on here of all sexualities and enjoy talking to a few of them offline as well. Because of this site my partner and I went from just being partners to being engaged and are learning more every day about how to handle any issues that may arise as we read the forums here.

So thank you, Drew. Thank you for making a site that is a wonderful area for people to come and see they aren't alone, that there is nothing unnatural about things that take place in nature.

void()

Oct 14, 2011, 8:23 AM

"Bisexuals are unable to agree what bisexuality is.. or even if it is, some of them.. " -- Fran

*Chuckling & giggling*

We're just wishy washy, everyone must love us, any way the wind blows ... hehe

Maybe we ought to order watermelon pizza and napalm kool aid for this shindig. Trouble being too many folks want starlight pizza and Rc cola.

sammie19

Oct 14, 2011, 8:46 AM

[I Whether this is a site for me as an individual, I will determine. I do not feel safe here but I am a strong vocal bisexual man who can express those feelings of being attacked.

Doesn't your intolerance of and opposition to non bisexual people being allowed on site allied with your constant need to defend your position by attacking others not show not strength but weakness emanating from your own insecurity and personal animosities?

Lisa (va)

Oct 14, 2011, 10:05 AM

Why would we want to exlude anyone? Folks want others to accept us as we are: a good start is accepting them.

Lisa

hugs n kisses

tenni

Oct 15, 2011, 10:25 AM

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 15, 2011, 10:41 AM

"This site offers a place where bisexuality and bisexuals can thrive and communicate. We're a community here. I think that if this site was exclusively for bisexuals, it would be a great dis-service to us and to others who are not bi. "

That is your opinion and matches many. However, it may be false.

Why would a bisexual man come to this site to "listen" to someone who is not bisexual about bisexuality? Increasingly what may/is happening it that the bisexual male who is uncertain and questioning, will not stay on this site.

Believe it or not. This is at best a bi friendly site and that isn't every day either.

To answer your question, or at least offer an insight. Some people need exposure to the gap between bi, gay and straight. Fear of how a straight or gay loved one might take their bisexuality. What better way to learn how to dialogue then to see or speak with someone whose sexuality differs from their own and see the meldings or oppositions that take place.

Bi friendly site? I don't mind the sound of that, Sounds rather catchy. Seedy dirty nasty filthy talk can happen anywhere. Doesn't matter if its here or elsewhere. There is no limit, other than those set by the site owner of what can be discussed. And as with any other forum. Disagreements, judgements, and right fighting will happen over aspects one deems against their nature. Its how the person chooses to relay that message is usually the majority of the conflict than the message itself. Not to mention, the picking apart ones post by another and hammering out what kink they find. At least here you are allowed to have a negative opinion of something and speak it freely and unlike other bi message boards, where little activity happens at all or moderators pull every other post and ban members.

If someone doesn't like it here, they can leave, odds are 4:1 that others will come and actually find a refuge or use for this site. There are droves and droves of bisexual men here, that have always been here and choose to remain here. More so that women are very much the minority, and bisexual women are far more for that matter. I don't hear many bisexual women complaining about how unfair it is. And if the bisexual only votes, the female vote is miniscule.

I just think its a bit of a hypocrisy to desire "open mindedness" yet be so closed minded in the environment around you

Alloiledup

Oct 15, 2011, 10:54 AM

[I]"Why would a bisexual man come to this site to "listen" to someone who is not bisexual about bisexuality? Increasingly what may/is happening it that the bisexual male who is uncertain and questioning, will not stay on this site.

This is absolutely ridiculous!!! Quote: "Increasingly what may/is happening it that the bisexual male who is uncertain and questioning, will not stay on this site." If this site is so exclusive for those people who claim they are the exclusive elite group of real bisexuals, then people who are just exploring will not even be able to come to this so called elite site for 'bisexuals' only but would not be even welcomed or banned, so they probably would get zero chance to even explore this site lest given a choice to stay on this site. It's not the explorers who may not stay at this site because they cannot get information about bisexuality, it would be the other way around that this site has excluded these explorers to come and explore because it is such an elite and exclusive site/club for the self professed 'true bisexuals'. This is not only ridiculous, this is downright hate-crime!!!!!

Lisa (va) hits the nail on the head. If you want someone else to understand bisexuality and accept bisexuality, you first have to accept people with different orientation and wanting to explore. By being so exclusive to the self professed true bisexuals, the site would not have even welcomed the explorers and the seekers, they wouldn't have even a choice to stay or not stay, come or not come. The site would be way too exclusive for the newcomers and explorers to even have a chance lest a choice. :rolleyes::bipride:

drugstore cowboy

Oct 16, 2011, 4:55 PM

I, of course, voted for Inclusive. I'm straight and involved with a bisexual male,

Long Duck is NOT bisexual at all. He's asexual and has written very frequently about how he's asexual.

Then again he also does like to attack people, especially men who are bisexual and who actually have sexual attraction and a sex drive which he does not have and has never had.

.....if you want to know what it's like to be me think back to before you were sexually attracted to anyone and thats how I am I've never had any sexual attraction to anyone....or a sex drive at all....

This site should stay a bisexual site or a site that's mainly for bisexuals like it currently is and has been.

DuckiesDarling

Oct 16, 2011, 10:44 PM

Drugstore your post that violated Rule 2 has been reported to Drew. You can join Tenni on ignore because nothing either of you say has any value to me or to any decisions I make with my life.

Second, Not only has the overwhelming majority of this site voted to keep it inclusive that majority includes the owner of this site. There are things this site serves to do that you refuse to open your eyes and see and for that I pity you.

Alloiledup

Oct 17, 2011, 7:42 AM

For all who have been following this chain, I have also posted on the 'negativity' chain. In summary, bisexuality is certainly a fascinating thing. I am a male with a dominant disposition in attraction towards men but with a curiosity to try out with women. I do not like the use of labels, as Drew has pointed out on the 'negativity' discussion, that people have been defining 'gay', 'bi', and 'straight' in a very narrow way. I would define sexual orientation to be more like water, which can switch from being in the form of 'ice', 'liquid', and 'steam'. Sexual orientation can vary over time. But labels are inadequate to define how one feels and changes over time. To me as a male with dominant disposition in attraction towards men, this is my natural disposition. In the bedroom with my man, I feel like a woman. I am not feminine but nor I am macho. But in bed, he takes the lead and I respond to him. In this arrangement, this is almost like the 'straight' relationship in my world. For me to have that curiosity towards women, this is how I feel inside: it would be like I am a 'woman' who wants a lesbian relationship with another woman. I don't know if people could understand this. It would be like I want my man to watch 2 'women' perform in front of him. I, who in the bedroom feel like a 'woman' to my man and his passive partner, want to peform with a real woman in front of him. I know it sounds wierd, but being a male with a disposition towards men, this is the natural position to me. To be with a real woman is unnatural to me but I want to try it. To me the curiosity towards women is the 'gay' to me. To be with men is actually 'straight' to me. Again, labels are confusing. In summary, to satisfy my curiosity with women is branching out from my natural disposition. My feeling inside is telling me, wait a second, this branching out is moving me from who I normally am to something completely different. It would be in the analogy of a 'straight' man moving a step towards the 'gay' side in the heterosexual to homosexual scale, but just in the opposite direction. That's why bisexuality is so fascinating, it is basically for some people moving out of their comfort zone and going into a new terrority, so 'exclusiveness' would never work in theory or in practice. People evolve and change. But I wish we could all evolve and change and feel every sensation of sexual stimulation from the angle of a male and from the angle of a female. Experience every dimension and every sensation of male and female orgasm. This would truly be awesome!!! :bigrin:

Gizmo

Oct 20, 2011, 11:52 PM

Awhile back it was asked if we were tired of a previous poll. Now I'm tired of this one. :tongue:

dafydd

Oct 21, 2011, 1:59 AM

Annika L

Oct 21, 2011, 6:41 PM

I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that all tenni initially said he was looking for was one tiny corner of the site where bisexuals only could discuss a topic. That really isn't much to ask, and doesn't make him fascist.

Women (for instance) have groups that talk about issues where we would be extremely uncomfortable if there were men present (even though we felt perhaps that we would be comfortable with certain men, or that a man's perspective on the issue could be interesting at times). I think tenni's initial suggestion was no more controversial than this.

I disagree with him when he goes so far as to suggest that there is no reason a bisexual would care to hear the thoughts of straight people about bisexuality. We can best explore and understand a topic when the points of view of many constituencies can be voiced and heard. And our egos are frail indeed if we cannot handle hearing views that may differ from our own.

But I also get his desire for a "safe space" to talk about certain kinds of issues.

The problems (as I see them) are:
(1) defining who should have access to that safe space is difficult: "confirmed" tried-and-true bisexuals only? Then as AllOiledUp points out, the questioners can't get the help they need. Anyone who isn't a 1 or 7 on the K-scale? Well, of course, we rate ourselves, so that isn't *much* help. Also, people like LDD may have attractions to both sexes (so not 1 or 7), but have no sex drive...do we count them? The complications go on.

(2) even if we could define the rules, enforcing them would be difficult.

And besides,

(3) Designating a safe space would not make it safe: Supposing we defined the people we wanted in our safe space, so that only bisexuals, according to some rigorous definition, were allowed, and so that only these people *could* participate in the discussion. There is sufficient diversity of opinion among bisexuals (by any definition) that if you were discussing, say cheating (to pluck a topic at less than random), there would still be vociferous debate with much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and eventually personal attacks and nastiness. The only difference is that it would be among bisexuals (of whatever definition). To me, that's not worth asking Drew to go to the trouble of solving (1) and (2) for.

:2cents:

DrBimind

Oct 21, 2011, 8:04 PM

yeah after we kick out the straights, we'll start shaving off the oldies, and the disabled. we have a vision of a united bi network. a real bi network the true Kinsey 4s. Soon enough we'll disconnect u too.

seig heil!

er..sorry but rethink

ROFLMA... so true, so sad, so real unfortunately in 2 many aspects of life.
Can't we all just get along ? I think this site DOES have more reasonably minded people than some others I've been too. More honest, some more vocal, but all seem to be here for one reason or another....their either feel that they or a loved one is or leans toward being Bisexual than any other "classification" or are tolerant and/or interested in lifestyles different from theirs. Most of all I think of the site as a friendly family of like minded folks.

Peace, Love, Dove :bipride: :cool: :three::rolleyes::three:

Long Duck Dong

Oct 21, 2011, 10:56 PM

agreed annika.....

the issue with me, is that I am attracted to both genders, i have had sex with both genders for 20+ years... so how that somehow doesn't make me bisexual, I am very interested to know...

full asexuals can be attracted to both genders, and they can be called bi romantics...... so there is no way we can remove them from the community, unless we make a rule that its only bisexuals that have been or are currently sexually active with both genders....

in the immortal words of bill clinton, * I did not have sexual relations with that woman *.. so we would need to define sex with people.... is intimate kissing, hugging and holding, classed as sex.... how about mutual masturbation... we know that full sex is definately counted.....

so it comes back to the issue, of I have had many years of full sex with both genders... so once again, i fit the criteria of bisexual......

it does appear that the criteria of eligible bisexuals, is being restricted to people that have a sexual attraction to both genders...... and once again, I have a sexual attraction but not a attraction to have sex in the way most people do....but it is still recognized as a legit form of sexual attraction ( psych report done on me, so it was confined by a expert )

so yeah, who actually is not bisexual enuf to be in a bisexual site ??? ... you raise a very interesting point

bigi56

Oct 21, 2011, 11:49 PM

I'm a bi guy. I love sex with women and with men. So when I walk down the street I check out women first and also men. Big deal. I would have sex with a gay guy or a straight guy, a gay woman or a straight woman. What's the difference and why would I exclude anyone from my menu? Sex is sex. Love is love. Never the twain shall meet. Get real.

Alloiledup

Oct 22, 2011, 3:28 AM

"Inclusive" or "Exclusive" is a choice to the participants of the survey. Ultimately, should one have choosen "exclusive", let me ask the question, HOW would one make it "exclusive"? HOW do you define this space or site so only the tested and trialed real bisexuals would be a part of this site? HOW on earth could one effectively screen out the ones not in this tested and trialed real bisexual circles? People under age could declare they are of legal age to go to porn sites. People who don't fit the tested and trialed definition of real bisexuals can likewise do same. People who are of this circle have partners too. HOW do we screen those partners out if the tested and trialed real bisexuals are members of this site but their partners do not fit the same definition and have exactly the same orientation say a k scale of 4. So, would one say the partners are not welcomed? And the explorers who are like Startrekkers wanting to "go where noone has gone before" and wanting to explore new terroritories would not be given a chance as they are not quite yet the tested and trialed group of real bisexuals? Just carefully think of the "HOW" and then you would realize "Hey, it is much easier said than done". It is also unhealthy, close minded, tunnel visioned for the tested and trialed bisexuals to be in one clan with noone else of different orientation and different views participating who might be the partners and explorers. Sooner or later the site would become so dull and boring with views of the same tested and trialed real bisexual people with limited diversion. So, besides the what and the why, let's think of "HOW"? :2cents:

tenni

Oct 22, 2011, 9:36 AM

littlerayofsunshine

Oct 22, 2011, 9:51 AM

The only way a scenario like that could actually work, would be through respect/understanding and moderation.

A moderator would have to police and then move a post placed in an improper location.

As for the respect aspect. There are just too many diverse personalities, some with greater respect and some lacking capability. Its inevitable that someone outside of that genre of sexuality will post there. Even if its locked to 3-4 on the kinsey.

Bisexuality is fluid for many, and there are times people changed their rating from one number to another depending on where their attractions lie so one can not be locked into a number. The option to change the number will allow anyone to post in that genre.

Wouldn't stop trolling..

So I think examples should be lead of what one desires, if one seeks to find that gift of bisexual forum nirvana.

Annika L

Oct 22, 2011, 10:09 AM

Annika
Thank you for your words. Yes, that is all that I was asking for. A space where the voices of those who believe themselves to be bi...no ifs or buts... would be able to discuss their issues. The questioning "maybe I'm bi" would be able to read it. The monosexuals would be able to read what was posted. If they wanted to talk,start a thread outside that area. Some of us come to a bisexual site to talk to bisexuals without being judged or condemned for our behaviour and our thoughts.

Even though there are only 20% of us, do we not count for anything Drew? This poll is really biased and still 20% of us want some space just for those who know they are bisexual. Where there is a will there is a way. Instead of being negative, others might discuss how this could work.

Tenni, Drew hasn't said he will not provide the "safe space" you've requested. He said that he prefers to keep the site inclusive. So there's no need to get petulant ("do we not count for anything?").

But also do consider my points in my previous post. What you suggest *sounds* really nice, and pretty reasonable...but what mechanism can there be on a site that screens out "people who believe themselves to be bi, no ifs or buts"? And if there was such a mechanism, LDD believes himself to be bi with no ifs or buts, but I have a hard time believing you'd be satisfied with a solution that let him in (and even if *you* were satisfied, others including he who sells drugs to cows would not be). There is *no* way to settle on a definition that would work for everyone who would want to post there. But even if there was, and Drew could devise a mechanism that could keep out everyone that you personally felt shouldn't be there (and those are *enormous* ifs)...could you feel safe even then? People disagree and people will argue...and on the internet people, people will sometimes be viscious jerks. Even bisexuals.

I think that the realistic and easily-implemented solution is to create your own safe space by putting on ignore everyone that you feel threatened by. If you don't want to hear the views of "monosexuals", why not put them on ignore? If you don't believe that LDD is bisexual, put him on ignore. If someone disagrees with you in a rude or offensive way, or even if you just don't want to hear that particular viewpoint, put them on ignore. Then each member who feels the need can create their own custom safe space...you don't need a computer-implementable definition of "offender", and the mechanism for blocking them already exists.

tenni

Oct 22, 2011, 10:16 AM

Perhaps as a start, the use of the word "troll" etc. should be banned (flagged and prevent a poster from posting if they use such a word). That word has been used a lot to stop views that do not conform to a power group (which seems to be diminishing) of this site as the use of the word itself has diminished.

Of course, the truly devious will find snide ways of getting around it.

I would think that bisexuality for those of us who accept it as who we are isn't fluid as much as our attraction may vary over the years.

As I stated, I'm sure that there is a way with software design if there is a will.

Annika
I didn't realize that you had posted again. I find it difficult to discuss those who believe themselves to be bisexual and also so many other things. That is an exception and not worth discussing anymore than a man who says that he is a hetero because he only is a top and never sucks cock or kiss a man. Especially if they attack a fellow bisexual who acts different from them. It is the attacking of bisexuals who differ that creates an unsafe feeling here for bisexuals like me who want a safe place. Maybe there needs to be a safe place for a man who calls himself a bisexual but is also asexual. I think that site is called AVEN. If such a person acknowledged their uniqueness and didn't attack those who are different or acknowledged the area of his expertise is really a small space there might be a better and safer place here. That is just one vocal poster though. All the bisexual men who come and go due to the attacks were ignored under the belief that this is a self monitoring site.

I do wish to read the views of monosexuals on topics that relate to their own life and a bisexual's life. I don't wish to read a monosexual's view on what is really not their sexuality issues. It will happen though in most of the site. Those that are monosexual and show that respect are fine as they do not post advice to bisexuals in a thread that are clearly identified not only as bisexual but a particular gender question for discussing. They wouldn't try to deceive and gain access to a safe space on this site.

sammie19

Oct 22, 2011, 10:28 AM

Annika
Thank you for your words. Yes, that is all that I was asking for. A space where the voices of those who believe themselves to be bi...no ifs or buts... would be able to discuss their issues. The questioning "maybe I'm bi" would be able to read it. The monosexuals would be able to read what was posted. If they wanted to talk,start a thread outside that area. Some of us come to a bisexual site to talk to bisexuals without being judged or condemned for our behaviour and our thoughts.

Even though there are only 20% of us, do we not count for anything Drew? This poll is really biased and still 20% of us want some space just for those who know they are bisexual. Where there is a will there is a way. Instead of being negative, others might discuss how this could work.

Just a thought. It won't stop bisexuals being judged and condemned even if it is possible to do as you ask. On this site bisexuals have often judged and condemned other bisexuals for what they say about their sexuality.

Even if you can ring fence it and say that is how it should be and you are ok with that, there will be even more condemnation and judgement from those who are able to read your posts and play no part in your discussion. That is when real division and suspicion begins, because you are not prepared to allow open debate.

If you ring fence the discussion you have and only allow bisexuals to participate, the external debate among non bisexuals and bisexuals which is likely to ensue elsewhere on site in the open forum the ensuing debates in both parts of the site will become duplicated because beiing a bisexual site we cannot bar those for whom the site is intended from an open general forum. The only way to prevent that to is to close access of the bisexual forum and restrict it only to bisexuals, and then you do all of us immeasurable harm but creating the very suspicion of we who are bisexual that most of us would much prefer to avoid.

What you do by ring fencing as you suggest, is to foster divison and suspicion among those who care and are our friends. What you do is to give credence and ammunition to those who are not our friends to foster that division.

It could be done what you ask, but neither efficiently or effectively.

Long Duck Dong

Oct 24, 2011, 12:21 AM

there does not need to be a safe place for me.... I am very capable of ignoring people.... why would I need to have a safe place at AVEN ? I may have a asexual nature, but I am bisexual.... why should I be hidden in another site cos of one aspect of me, and not be in this site cos of another aspect of me ????

I do not tell people to run and hide in other sites.... I may disagree with them but I respect their rights to have a opinion, in the same way they respect my right to have a opinion.....

telling people to hide in safe places, is the same as saying, be ashamed of who and what you are, do not be proud, do not have a voice...... let others silence you... and do not be a beacon for the others that may need to know there are more like them out there.....

or in simple terms, get back in the closet and never come out again......

Alloiledup

Oct 24, 2011, 8:02 AM

There really is no 'safe' space. How is Drew going to screen those who describe themselves as 'real' bisexuals, and those who are the 'fake' bisexuals? Can he say, "No entry to you sir to this exclusive space because you are not a 'real' bisexual." Unless Drew defines extremely stringent criteria to say based on these criteria, you can enter this space. Without meeting all of these criteria, you are considered a 'fake' bisexual!!! Ouulala, first of all, it's an impossible task to establish these very stringent criteria. Second, even if he did, it's not possible to really know if the participants are telling the truth with respect to meeting these criteria. Third, even if it is possible to make this exclusive space, the 'real' bisexuals who made the cut might not want to exclude their partners who didn't quite meet the definition and want to include them in this space. Fourth, those who meet the 'real' bisexuals' stringent criteria might not always be that 20% in this survey. The 'real' bisexuals who meet the definition could be distributed in such a way that it remains a 80/20 split, as not all the 'real' bisexuals have the exclusive view. Most likely, the ratio would remain the same. There is just no possible way to clearly define a 'safe' space for the so called 'real' bisexuals. Many 'real' bisexuals are very open minded as seen in the 80/20 ratio. So, one must then define a space then for the 'real' bisexuals who want exclusive 'space' and must all think like the 20% in the survey, else please go somewhere else. Even that, this does not gurantee a 'safe' space, as come a different topic altogether, it would be back to square one, as we are human and we all come from different backgrounds and from different backgrounds come different views. So, in conclusion, you define a 'safe' space for the 'real' bisexuals that all are within that 20% and you think you really have a 'safe' space? Be real, different topics would attract different diversion of views and there is absolutely no 'safe' space. If you want 'safe' space, don't express your view and stay away. You won't ever be 'attacked' then cause you shut up and then there can't be a counter argument to your posted view since you had not made one!!! :rolleyes:

sammie19

Oct 24, 2011, 8:18 AM

[QUOTE=Alloiledup;212680]There really is no 'safe' space. [QUOTE]

That's the important point. It can never be effective on line because people will always find a way. All sex based sites have the same problems and will always have the same problems.

csrakate

Oct 24, 2011, 8:25 AM

Perhaps as a start, the use of the word "troll" etc. should be banned (flagged and prevent a poster from posting if they use such a word). That word has been used a lot to stop views that do not conform to a power group (which seems to be diminishing) of this site as the use of the word itself has diminished.

Tenni,
Allow me, if you will, to offer a bit more insight into the use of the word "troll" as it pertains to this site. Around the time that you returned to this site, we were being inundated with vile posts by a certain individual who targeted other members of this site as well as entire groups of people, i.e. people who are overweight. This individual would get banned, then would return and continue more of his posts. His vitriol wasn't limited to forum posts....they were often followed up with private messages to these individuals and some had a threatening tone to them. It got to a point where some of us were a bit anxious whenever someone posted comments that were somewhat controversial in nature and it set off a knee jerk reaction where attempts were made to diffuse the poster by declaring that it was once again our troll and for others not to respond. Admittedly, this got overdone and out of hand and quite often, innocent people were declared a troll as a result of said knee jerk reaction. Things have calmed down somewhat and as you remarked, the "troll" word has not been tossed around as much lately. I can honestly say that the word was never meant to be used to dissuade people with dissenting opinions to be turned away. It was simply a reaction fueled by the actions of a very unsavory individual.

Opinions may be varied on this site, but everyone has a right to their opinion....as long as they realize that it is exactly THAT...their opinion. It is not a steadfast fact....not a matter of right or wrong....and should always be delivered with respect to anyone with a different view.