Why all the anger when discovering that you never have been straight/hetero?

[BiDaveDtown]

I've seen a few posts on this website where a few people here wrote about how they discovered that they're bisexual, and sometimes this happened after they'd lived for decades in denial or in the closet about their sexuality and finally accepted or discovered that they're bisexual despite once thinking that they somehow were hetero/straight or identifying as hetero/straight.

Why do these people get very angry and make up the rambling non-sensical and illogical argument that they somehow were "straight" before they were bisexual?

These people have always been bisexual and never were heterosexual or straight to begin with even if they did identify as "straight" or "hetero" and thought that this is what they were because they were conforming to a heterosexist and heteronormative society and have lingering effects because of staying in denial and closeted about being bisexual.

Then these people lash out at people who are actually hetero/straight with heterophobia claiming that mostly all straight people are somehow biphobic or homophobic and are just like the people in the Westboro Baptist church which is not true at all.

I understand that for some people it does take them time to come out of the closet or accept their sexuality since not everyone discovered themselves when they were very young like I am but what's the big deal? You're not straight/hetero, you never were straight/hetero, and there's no need to get angry or lash out with heterophobia at people who are straight and claim that most of them are somehow biphobic or homophobic just because you're now discovering that you're not heterosexual and that you never have been at all ever.

[mikey3000]

Why do you think that one has to be born that way? No fluidity for you? I was straight for years (got the wedding album and kids to prove it). Then in my mid thirties the bi thing hit me right out of the blue. So I rolled with it and am still very happy. But I now know that if my marriage should come to an end, I'll go with a man. It's a choice for me. Not born that way, a conscious choice. The last thing I want is people treating my sexuality like it's some kind of disability. "Oh, it's not his fault, he was born that way." Piss off! Why shouldn't I be able to choose WHO I love?

[slipnslide]

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2008/01/sexual_fluidity.php

[NotLostJustWandering]

Maybe if we can take down the judgmental tone surrounding this issue, we could ask those who see themselves as "previously straight" if in fact they never had homosexual feelings or fantasies at all, and if any events in their lives helped propel their fluidity or if it really just happened by itself.

Personal definition may have a lot to do with it. I identified as heterosexual (but never straight) in the years between my first and second homosexual experiences because I found the first one so disappointing. It was very emotional, but I was expecting fireworks and instead had a really hard time coming. So, I figured that I was naturally wired more for hetero sex than homo sex, and that I should stick to the former. But I never identified as straight because I could not ignore or deny all the attraction I felt to various men or how often I fantasized about them.

I can easily see how someone a bit lower on the Kinsey scale could have dismissed their homo side entirely and identified as straight without reservation, but later in life, with more experimenting, discovering that they really had more homo potential all along.

I would much rather, however, hear people's personal testimony than speculate about them, put words their mouths, or second-guess their appraisals of their own sexuality. I've had enough of that treatment myself, thank you very much!

[Pasadenacpl2]

Since this thread is about me...

I was straight. Never had a thought about men. Spent my years in the military, bunked with guys, showered in open bay showers, and never gave the other guys a second thought (and expected that they would show me the same courtesy). I got married to a wonderful woman early on (still married to the same wonderful woman 22 years later).

It wasn't until much later in life that our fantasy life went in directions that led my wife one night to put it all together and ask me if I might be bi. It clicked (lightbulb effect). Yes, there were clues, and I'd say that my fluidity started three or four years before this.

As to why I would get angry? Because you don't know me. Because it's just as bad to pat someone on the head and tell them that they have never been straight as it is to tell a bi man that he's really gay, just in denial. You are making assumptions about me that you have no right to make. How dare you?

I've never been in denial about my sexuality. I'm incredibly introspective, and my wife and I explore our fantasies and our sexuality head on. We always have. When we put the pieces together, it wasn't a traumatic incident, but a wonderful one (she did take time to get used to the idea, but that's understandable).

Now. Take your patronizing and go the fuck away. Stay in Dallas. You wouldn't like the scene in Houston. We are far more accepting of people in all of their varieties, and accept that their journeys are each unique. We don't tolerate shit like you pulled. We accept that there are valid reasons to keep one foot in the closet. We accept that each person will be as out as they can be, and we don't fuck with them or call them cowards when they can't be as out as we'd like.

Or, come to Houston, and let me show you what actual tolerance is like. Either way, quit with the idea that you know fuck all about anyone but yourself.

Pasa

[Gearbox]

I've been pretty fluid, starting out at around 11yo being in Bi-mode, then entering hetero-mode shortly after.
Although I had thoughts about sexual attraction to other men, it doesn't compare to how I am now.
I was in the army with some very fit attractive men, but I can only remember one particular man that I saw as 'sexually attractive', and I only saw him for 5mins.

I'm now very sexually attracted to men. Still attracted to women, but I seem to be making up for lost time with men. This might be a result of actually having adult sex with a man in later life?
I know how good sex is with men, so I have a sexual appreciation for the male form to a higher degree.:)

I'm trying not to conclude that ALL are bi given the opportunity.:bigrin:

[swmnkdinthervr]

To qualify myself before responding: I was totally str8 until I was about 12, then I was "seduced by an older boy. While I had some uneasiness it was undoubtedly fun but society's constant pounding of homophobic values lead to shame/guilt feelings and I stopped the m2m play. At 14 I lost my hetero virginity and remained a completely hetero thinking/acting male until I was about 45 when I began to fantasize about cock play. I was about 50 when I decided to accept that my interest in cock was part of my "normal" sexuality but I didn't act on it again until I was about 53.

I have never been attracted to men in the way I am to women BUT I have a fascination with cock. I have no gender based inhibitions about pleasure and this isn't a gender issue to me. I'm not turned on by kissing, cuddling or snuggling with men but much like my sexual association with women I love both giving/receiving pleasure. That's where the parallel ends, I'm not drawn emotionally to men. I am totally attracted to women both emotionally/physically.

The "fluidity" mentioned above is all around us and I've never witnessed the anger response associated with the discovery of ones own bisexuality...though I suppose it exists at least in occasional cases. I don't view bisexuality or homosexuality as solely a genetic predisposition to have an interest in the same sex. There are many like me that enjoy the "best of both worlds" approach to sexuality. I believe there are also those that are genetically predisposed and "wired" wrong for their birth gender. There is such a wide range of bisexual interests that to try and pin down one groups reactions is only a small sampling of the whole!!!

No...I have never witnessed that anger and I don't consider it to be representative of a large enough segment of the bisexual community to be more than a passing concern.

[Pasadenacpl2]

The anger he was asking about wan't anger at finding out you ar bi. The anger he refersto is when you say "I was straight." And someone insists that "you were never straight" and that you were just in denial.

Pasa

[darkeyes]

I have become angry with myself on numerous occasions in my life for doing things of which I had believed myself incapable. It is a natural reaction which most of us have from time to time. Discovering our sexuality is not what we believed it to be can be just such a time... it isn't so shocking, but a natural reaction to finding out we are not what we thought we were.

Sexuality is fluid. I don't agree that we necessarily have the same sexuality all of our lives... from day to day in small ways our sexuality adjusts and we need different things from it and sexually we will do things one day we will not the next and vice versa. Throughout our lives it can change in much more fundamental ways and from being straight we can become gay or bi, move from bi to gay.... I don't hold to the view that we will always be non straight either. If we can move from straight through to gay, why is it so impossible to believe that we can move in the opposite direction?

[evo57]

Hello all, new to the forum!

Just thought I would post my view on this. I considered myself to be a straight person who just appreciated how attractive other women could be. Had 2 serious relationships with men and it was only until I met my current girlfriend that I realised I wanted more with her. She is the same, several serious/non serious relationships with men and only now at 27 has she realised that she is completely open to the idea of a relationship with a woman. I have had no problem adjusting to this new type of relationship, although I will admit I do miss some aspects of a man... but as you probably well know there are ways around this!

I would never say I was angry about not being straight in this narrow-minded world, however I would say I do sometimes envy the non-complications of heterosexuality. Overall though I feel very lucky to appreciate both sexes in the way I do!

[hgf33]

Well, guess this thread backfired now didn't it. Looks like you're outnumbered. Nice try.

Many of us were NOT in denial, and NOT in the closet. We simply did not have these feelings until later in life. Call it fluidity, call it the result of something that may have brought it out, call it whatever you want, as long as you don't call it denial. Don't expect that everyone's experience should be the same. Yeah, we WERE born this way... we are born to develop and change, and sexuality is a part of development. I was born with a genetic predisposition to anxiety, so you can say I was born with it... but it didn't show up until later in life. Everything in life is not measured in black and white. We think, dream, breathe, live in color. My color went from pink and blue to shades of purple, and I have no reason to argue with anyone about it further. I know me. You don't. End of discussion.

[Katja]

The manner in which the OP asks the question suggests that he is every bit as dogmatic and certain as the gay or lesbian who considers that bisexuality is a fallacy and that we are ourselves, gay or lesbian. It is not only as dogmatic, it is every bit as arrogant to have the affrontery to call those who discover their bisexuality later in life liars as those gay and lesbians are to call all bisexuals liars and 'fencesitters'.

Bisexuality not only takes different forms in different people, it develops in different people at different times in their lives. The arrogance of people such as the OP is almost beyond description and just as I am likely to slap any gay or lesbian in the face for telling me I am a dyke, any who suggested that in the short time in my life I considered myself heterosexual, I was in denial and therefore a liar and a closet case, is as likely be meted out the same punishment.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Watch it. You might get banned for threatening violence. :bigrin:

Pasa

[drugstore cowboy]

My husband and I are both bisexual and we have always know about our sexuality, we're out about being bisexual, and no matter the gender of any of our partners both each other and our previous male and female partners neither of us hid in any sort of monosexual closet or were in denial about our bisexuality.

We've talked about it and we were born bisexual and human sexuality is probably genetic. All of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and hetero people I have met have all said how they were born whatever their sexuality is and that their sexuality has never been a choice at all.


Why do you think that one has to be born that way? No fluidity for you? I was straight for years (got the wedding album and kids to prove it). Then in my mid thirties the bi thing hit me right out of the blue. So I rolled with it and am still very happy. But I now know that if my marriage should come to an end, I'll go with a man. It's a choice for me. Not born that way, a conscious choice. The last thing I want is people treating my sexuality like it's some kind of disability. "Oh, it's not his fault, he was born that way." Piss off! Why shouldn't I be able to choose WHO I love?

People are not understanding fluid sexuality.

Fluid sexuality does not say or claim that someone that's monosexual somehow becomes bisexual or that anyone can actually change their sexuality from bisexual or gay/lesbian to heterosexual. This smacks of ignorance and reminds me of the whole ex-gay movement and the mice thread where slipnslide wrote about how he wants a medication that will somehow make him heterosexual and not bisexual.

Fluid sexuality just says that bisexuality exists and it does not say that people who are monosexual and actually monosexual can somehow magically change their sexuality through choice, prayer, or other ways.

Yes sexuality is fluid for people who are bisexual.

If you're monosexual or straight/gay/lesbian then your sexuality is not fluid at all, your sexuality never will be fluid, and your sexuality is not fluid at all and it's static and you're monosexual.

There's nothing wrong with being monosexual or having a sexuality that's static because you're gay, hetero/straight, or lesbian you just don't have a fluid sexuality at all and you're not bisexual at all.

Mikey I've read posts where you described being sexually attracted to the same gender when you were very young so you never have been heterosexual or straight or never were hetero or straight at all.

You were born bisexual and you've always been bisexual even if you did think that marrying a woman and having kids with her would somehow make your sexual attractions to men go away like you've written about thinking this before you came out and accepted that you're bisexual.

Thanks for proving the original poster's point with your anger and rant.

LMAO do your really think that marrying a woman and having kids with her makes someone "straight" or actually heterosexual?

LOL Tell that to all of the large number of gay men who are closeted or on the down low and who have a wife and kids.

Most gay men and lesbians are closeted and married to someone of the opposite gender, or they have been married to a person of the opposite gender in the past.


Because it's just as bad to pat someone on the head and tell them that they have never been straight as it is to tell a bi man that he's really gay, just in denial.

It wasn't until much later in life that our fantasy life went in directions that led my wife one night to put it all together and ask me if I might be bi. It clicked (lightbulb effect). Yes, there were clues, and I'd say that my fluidity started three or four years before this.


As for what you're describing with your wife you discovered your sexuality later in life since you were closeted and in denial about your sexuality.

I've never been in denial about my sexuality but I've seen it in lots of people and I know what it looks like.

These are not nearly the same. Then again you're the one who frequently claims that bisexual erasure and biphobia are not real issues or actual issues that bisexuals face, and that biphobia is not nearly as hurtful or destructive as homophobia somehow. ;)


We simply did not have these feelings until later in life. Call it fluidity, call it the result of something that may have brought it out

Living in denial and living in the closet, or being confused about your sexuality are powerful things.


While I had some uneasiness it was undoubtedly fun but society's constant pounding of homophobic values lead to shame/guilt feelings and I stopped the m2m play. At 14 I lost my hetero virginity and remained a completely hetero thinking/acting male until I was about 45 when I began to fantasize about cock play. I was about 50 when I decided to accept that my interest in cock was part of my "normal" sexuality but I didn't act on it again until I was about 53.

Again this just shows how you were in denial about your sexuality and/or closeted and that bisexuals who once thought they were hetero/straight or identified as hetero/straight, never have been hetero or straight at all.

You may have thought you were hetero but you were not and never have been straight/hetero. You're bisexual but you let society dictate your life and thankfully you came out and stopped living in denial and in the closet.

[NotLostJustWandering]

I would just like to add an apology for overgeneralizing and not acknowledging fluidity in my post about the mono queer closet (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203666&postcount=1). I still would suggest that pressure from the G&L community coerces bi people to deny their sexuality and identify as gay or lesbian, but clearly some who change identities have a more valid reason for doing so.

Some time ago Tenni asked if we could come up with a bisexual ethic. What if we could posit this as a principle and actually stick to it?

"We do not second-guess anyone's personal testimony regarding their own sexuality."

[drugstore cowboy]

I would just like to add an apology for overgeneralizing and not acknowledging fluidity in my post about the mono queer closet (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=203666&postcount=1). I still would suggest that pressure from the G&L community coerces bi people to deny their sexuality and identify as gay or lesbian, but clearly some who change identities have a more valid reason for doing so.

Some time ago Tenni asked if we could come up with a bisexual ethic. What if we could posit this as a principle and actually stick to it?

"We do not second-guess anyone's personal testimony regarding their own sexuality."

That works well in theory but it's not going to work that way in reality.

We've all seen or known someone who is bisexual, gay, or lesbian yet closeted or in denial about their sexuality.

To claim that this person is somehow "straight" or "heterosexual" just because they wish to be does not mean that they actually are heterosexual or straight, and it's just going to hurt them and drive them deeper into the closet or keep them in further denial about their sexuality.

I've seen many Lesbians do this to bisexual women even here in the SF bay area where biphobia and bisexual erasure are both alive and well. The lesbians will gang up and tell the woman who is clearly bisexual and sexually attracted to men and women that she's really a lesbian or that the bisexual woman is only having sex with men not because she's bisexual or sexually attracted to them but because she hates herself, doesn't want to accept that she's lesbian, and because of the evil Patriarchy that puts all women and lesbians down!

I have also met lots of bisexual women who have told me how they have met a lot of biphobic lesbians who want nothing to do with them since they're bisexual, or that if the bisexual woman previously thought she was lesbian then discovered that she's bisexual how her so called "friends" that are lesbian would shun her and disown her instead of congratulating her or not seeing her sexuality as being a big deal since they're actually friends.

Here's a blog that shows how Lesbian women are biphobic.

http://considertheteacosy.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/when-gay-women-get-boyfriends-more-lesbian-biphobia-from-afterellen/


When gay women get boyfriends: more lesbian biphobia from AfterEllen.
Posted on July 6, 2011 by Aoife O'Riordan
When gay women get boyfriends: more lesbian biphobia from AfterEllen.

I don’t want to comment much on this, since I think it speaks for itself. However, if you’ve ever wondered why some queer women disappear from their LG(bt) communities if they enter into different-sex relationships?
This.

There was an article posted on AfterEllen yesterday: Sheryl Swoopes’ comes out as NSGAA (not so gay after all). It appears that Swoopes is an American basketball player who was in an reasonably high-profile relationship with another woman for several years. The article author just found out that Swoopes is now engaged to a man.

Normally, when I find out that a person is engaged to another person, the first word out of my mouth is “congratulations”.

Here’s what the linster, the author of this post, had to say:

I am not thrilled to learn that Sheryl is with a man. I don’t feel betrayed or anything, just a little sad — not for her, but for myself.

And here are a few tidbits from the comments:

I just wish bisexuals would label themselves accurately or not label themselves at all, calling yourself a lesbian when you’re not only reinforces the myth that lesbians can be “turned”, which is really frustrating to those of us who genuinely are lesbians and have the validity of our sexual orientation constantly questioned… I’m thinking the only reason she dated a woman because she was disillusioned with men

I was thrilled when she came out as a lesbian. Now I’m sad… I just want cool, ACTUAL lesbians on Team Lesbo! It gives us fantastic press (ha!) especially when someone femme comes out, but if she “turns” straight again, it’s game over. It really reinforces the lesbians just need good d**k

Ultimately when a woman decides to backtrack on her sexual orientation by dating a man and denouncing her lesbianism it doesn’t just affect her, it affects lesbians everywhere, that’s the way it is.

Mislabeling does effect the lesbian community. The effect is very subtle but it is there and thinly veiled in many conversations I have had with Heterosexuals. Mainly men.

her identification as a Lesbian and then engagement to a man will reinforce the mistaken idea that lesbians can be turned or “cured”

Isn’t that a bit selfish and disingenous though? Identifying as “lesbian” when you (general you that is) know your sexuality is not quite…absolute? Not only it does perpetuate the stereotype that lesbians can be changed with just the right man, but it kind of makes you look well…wishy-washy. It’s one thing to do what you like, and completely another to take an action that hurts others as well.

considering the marginalization of LGBT people and the importance of visibility, I think it’s disingenuous to make a “choice” to be gay (SS’s words, not mine) then “choose” to dip back into hetero life.

I may respect her choice, but I have lost all respect for her as any kind of role model.

You are possibly right – that we labeled her a lesbian, but she did accept a job shilling for Olivia Cruises. This is from Olivia’s website, “Olivia Travel, the premiere lesbian travel company, provides amazing cruise and resort vacations for lesbians worldwide.” LESBIANS worldwide… Olivia doesn’t advertise themselves to be a bisexual, loving-this-woman-here-and-now, etc. type of company. It is for LESBIANS.

I think I’ll leave it at that.

[tenni]

"Bisexual ethic"
"We do not second-guess anyone's personal testimony regarding their own sexuality."
Today 2:53 PM"

I think that is a good bisexual ethic NotLost. There may be situations where they may "label" themselves in ways that do not seem appropriate to others though. As long as the person doesn't take a preachy , leader, counsellor role and not aware that they are misinformed about their own sexuality that would be ok with me.

"denial about your sexuality and/or closeted"

I find the words "denial" & "closeted" questionable when discussing bisexuality. They seem...well so "gay"...:tong: Can we not find our own terms for our own sexuality? Good reason to step away from da brellie for a bit and come up with our own language terms to separate our sexual experiences from G&L...Obviously some of us do not buy into such monosexual thinking about closet, denial. That's not what we experience due to fluidity. Monosexuals do not seem to have fluid sexual attraction to both genders.

If a person really has no awareness on a conscious level that they have same sex attraction and want physical sexual acts with their own sex, I can not in all honesty say that they are in denial. They don't know that they are bisexual. How can they be closeted? It seems to me that if you are not publicly out about not being heterosexual and are unaware of your same sex /opposite sex dual attraction, you are not closeted. You don't know this part of yourself. If you have same sex attraction and know that you have that attraction and decide not to be open publicly about your sexual attraction..maybe that aligns with this gay term "closeted"...again...its soo gay...drop it...lol

If bisexuality (not all sexualities) can be fluid, it is only fluid for some bisexuals...not all. We don't know as there is no scientific proof that this is true. The change of sexual attractions that many of us experience can happen. It isn't constant and measureable by time for many of us. At certain points in our lives we may feel the change in sexual attraction and at other points it may settle down to an equal sexual attraction from what I read people stating.

[Pasadenacpl2]

"We do not second-guess anyone's personal testimony regarding their own sexuality."


This is fantastic, NotLost. I heartily agree.

One of the rules that we have in the GSA is almost exactly this. When kids decide to come out, or when they ask for counseling, we do not allow anyone else to make assumptions. I had one student, a rather flamboyant boy, try to tell another boy who claimed he was bi that he was actually gay. It was highly insulting, and nearly resulted in the bi boy retreating back further than he was to begin with.

As a starting point, I would sign on to uphold this particular principal.

Tenni,

I don't find anything wrong with closted or denial. They fit, and when used appropriately, they accurately describe some people. However, rather than veiwing someone as being 'closeted and in denial' as a pejorative, we need to view those people with compassion. If someone is in the closet, there is a damn good reason for it, generally speaking. We need to support those people, offer compassion, and counseling if they need it.

I suggest another principle:

We do not attack people for how out/closeted they are.

Pasa

[Pasadenacpl2]

Then again you're the one who frequently claims that bisexual erasure and biphobia are not real issues or actual issues that bisexuals face, and that biphobia is not nearly as hurtful or destructive as homophobia somehow.

I didn't say they weren't real issues. Nor did I say it wasn't hurtful or destructive. I think you are misreading what I'm saying. Not hard to believe, as you do it frequently in your responses to many people.

I said that there are concrete issues we can address, and actually change and actually have measurable success with. I said that the list that describes what 'biphobia' looks like doesn't describe phobia at all, and rather describes ignorance, rather than fear.

I have never said that biphobia isn't as destructive as homophobia. I personally lump them both in together since it's the same fear when coming from the hetero society (it really only differentiates itself when coming from the gay community).

I would appreciate that if you are going to tell me what I claim to say, that you actually quote me. You stand a far better chance of actually getting it right that way. Every time you paraphrase, you fuck it up.

Pasa

[tenni]

"We do not attack people for how out/closeted they are."


I would agree with you Pasa.

With regards to the words "denial" and "closeted", I think that radical Gays in particular have made these words perjorative to be used against others who do not act/believe like them politically. I don't see them losing the negative baggage that comes with these words. I do think that some bisexuals have aligned themselves closer to the G&L groups than I and some others have. Some seem to be more encultured politically to G&L politics. I just don't align myself with the G&L politics. I suspect that there are quite a few bisexual men who do not align themselves with G&L.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Well write this day in the record books. Tenni and Pasa have agreed on two things in the same day.

Maybe getting some bi unity isn't impossible after all.

Pasa

[hgf33]

I have to say that all the misquoting and misreading in these threads is getting old, and I wish people would slow down and take in everything they are reading before putting words into someone's mouth.

I am also now very offended. I love my fellow bisexuals. I love that we can all discuss things as adults, whether we agree or not. But I have never, and I repeat NEVER, been confused about my sexuality. Isn't that one of the biggest insults we all have to fight against? For a fellow bisexual to allude to that astounds me. I was not closeted or in denial. You can't deny something you've never even given a thought to. I was boy crazy and sex hungry and never even ONCE thought about or considered girls. I was not attracted to girls. Period. Not saying I wasn't bi, but I didn't know I was.

Denial means you're aware of something but refuse to acknowledge it. Denial would mean I knew I was bi but didn't want to admit it, or didn't want people to know. Well, not possible, bc I didn't know. You can't deny what you don't know.

Trust me, I WISH I would've known I was bi at a much earlier age!!! I feel like I have missed out!!

Confused would mean I was having feelings for both men and women and was unsure of what that meant. I didn't have feelings for women, in any form, so therefore, I couldn't have been confused.

Later in life, because I was a secure woman hanging out with mostly male friends, I was able to respect beauty. It's ok for any woman to say another woman is hot. After so much time around men, you get used to checking them out for them, you get used to porn, you get used to female nudity. I also used to kiss my friend and do silly things to get attention. I still wasn't bi because I was never like "I want to fuck this girl" or "I have feelings for this girl." I didn't. Aside from the fact that she was my friend, it was nothing. It was stupid party-girl fun.

It wasn't until I was 19 that things started to change for me. I started watching lesbian porn, not for the girls, but for the oral sex images.
Eventually, something clicked in me, and my ability to respect female beauty turned into attraction. I started hanging out with a gorgeous girl who was a mutual friend, and we eventually started flirting, which led to talks about being bi. It was the first time I had ever had any sort of feelings for a girl. It never went anywhere because of awful life circumstances, but even now, I think about her and I know she was definitely my FIRST girl crush. I've considered myself bisexual ever since, and I've embraced that part of me. No denial before, no denial now, and certainly never any confusion.

[pepperjack]

I once read a quote, thus: "The ultimate in courage is to be yourself and let the chips fall where they may."

[Long Duck Dong]

I have to say that all the misquoting and misreading in these threads is getting old, and I wish people would slow down and take in everything they are reading before putting words into someone's mouth.

I am also now very offended. I love my fellow bisexuals. I love that we can all discuss things as adults, whether we agree or not. But I have never, and I repeat NEVER, been confused about my sexuality. Isn't that one of the biggest insults we all have to fight against? For a fellow bisexual to allude to that astounds me. I was not closeted or in denial. You can't deny something you've never even given a thought to. I was boy crazy and sex hungry and never even ONCE thought about or considered girls. I was not attracted to girls. Period. Not saying I wasn't bi, but I didn't know I was.

Denial means you're aware of something but refuse to acknowledge it. Denial would mean I knew I was bi but didn't want to admit it, or didn't want people to know. Well, not possible, bc I didn't know. You can't deny what you don't know.

Trust me, I WISH I would've known I was bi at a much earlier age!!! I feel like I have missed out!!

Confused would mean I was having feelings for both men and women and was unsure of what that meant. I didn't have feelings for women, in any form, so therefore, I couldn't have been confused.

Later in life, because I was a secure woman hanging out with mostly male friends, I was able to respect beauty. It's ok for any woman to say another woman is hot. After so much time around men, you get used to checking them out for them, you get used to porn, you get used to female nudity. I also used to kiss my friend and do silly things to get attention. I still wasn't bi because I was never like "I want to fuck this girl" or "I have feelings for this girl." I didn't. Aside from the fact that she was my friend, it was nothing. It was stupid party-girl fun.

It wasn't until I was 19 that things started to change for me. I started watching lesbian porn, not for the girls, but for the oral sex images.
Eventually, something clicked in me, and my ability to respect female beauty turned into attraction. I started hanging out with a gorgeous girl who was a mutual friend, and we eventually started flirting, which led to talks about being bi. It was the first time I had ever had any sort of feelings for a girl. It never went anywhere because of awful life circumstances, but even now, I think about her and I know she was definitely my FIRST girl crush. I've considered myself bisexual ever since, and I've embraced that part of me. No denial before, no denial now, and certainly never any confusion.

there is confused and there is confused....

confused as in I am not sure if I am bisexual, gay / les / straight....and confused as in I am not sure if I am bisexual, gay / les / straight

make sense ????

lol a person that ids as a sexuality then finds that it may not be so correct after all....... and a person that doesn't id as a sexuality and is not sure what way they actually are........

we see it from time to time in the site, people asking if their feelings, thoughts emotions make them bisexual, if they make the grade in other ways.....

and we have the people that say, well I am bisexual but I am more drawn to males or females and not as interesting in the same gender as I thought I was.... am I still bisexual

the hilarious part is the way that bisexuals say, don't define us, as there is no defination of bisexual, but hang on while we define you according to what makes a person bisexual and you fit the defination of bisexual.....

the trouble is how do you know you are bisexual.... there is no definations, only a personal understanding of you and whom you love and are attracted to.....

its why I perfer not to call people bisexual, lesbian gay, straight, asexual, gender queer..... I perfer the term, FRIEND....

[hgf33]

there is confused and there is confused....

confused as in I am not sure if I am bisexual, gay / les / straight....and confused as in I am not sure if I am bisexual, gay / les / straight

make sense ????

lol a person that ids as a sexuality then finds that it may not be so correct after all....... and a person that doesn't id as a sexuality and is not sure what way they actually are........

we see it from time to time in the site, people asking if their feelings, thoughts emotions make them bisexual, if they make the grade in other ways.....

and we have the people that say, well I am bisexual but I am more drawn to males or females and not as interesting in the same gender as I thought I was.... am I still bisexual

the hilarious part is the way that bisexuals say, don't define us, as there is no defination of bisexual, but hang on while we define you according to what makes a person bisexual and you fit the defination of bisexual.....

the trouble is how do you know you are bisexual.... there is no definations, only a personal understanding of you and whom you love and are attracted to.....

its why I perfer not to call people bisexual, lesbian gay, straight, asexual, gender queer..... I perfer the term, FRIEND....

I love the way you put things! A lot of times, when I read your post, I find myself thinking "yes, THAT'S what I meant! Lol! You find a way to explain things when I fall short. That all makes perfect sense, and that's kinda what my conclusion was. We are all just people. We all have different attractions, different likes and dislikes, and different preferences. Love is love, attraction is attraction, decisions are personal, and gender is merely a small detail in a much larger picture. I identify as bi, and I joke about being half gay, but in reality, I just see it as "anything is possible." People need to worry less about what is and what should be, and focus on what could be (or could happen.) "Anything is possible" may sound cliche, but it's true. That's just life. And let us not forget how beautiful it is! :)

[mikey3000]

My husband and I are both bisexual and we have always know about our sexuality, we're out about being bisexual, and no matter the gender of any of our partners both each other and our previous male and female partners neither of us hid in any sort of monosexual closet or were in denial about our bisexuality.

We've talked about it and we were born bisexual and human sexuality is probably genetic. All of the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and hetero people I have met have all said how they were born whatever their sexuality is and that their sexuality has never been a choice at all.



People are not understanding fluid sexuality.

Fluid sexuality does not say or claim that someone that's monosexual somehow becomes bisexual or that anyone can actually change their sexuality from bisexual or gay/lesbian to heterosexual. This smacks of ignorance and reminds me of the whole ex-gay movement and the mice thread where slipnslide wrote about how he wants a medication that will somehow make him heterosexual and not bisexual.

Fluid sexuality just says that bisexuality exists and it does not say that people who are monosexual and actually monosexual can somehow magically change their sexuality through choice, prayer, or other ways.

Yes sexuality is fluid for people who are bisexual.

If you're monosexual or straight/gay/lesbian then your sexuality is not fluid at all, your sexuality never will be fluid, and your sexuality is not fluid at all and it's static and you're monosexual.

There's nothing wrong with being monosexual or having a sexuality that's static because you're gay, hetero/straight, or lesbian you just don't have a fluid sexuality at all and you're not bisexual at all.

Mikey I've read posts where you described being sexually attracted to the same gender when you were very young so you never have been heterosexual or straight or never were hetero or straight at all.

You were born bisexual and you've always been bisexual even if you did think that marrying a woman and having kids with her would somehow make your sexual attractions to men go away like you've written about thinking this before you came out and accepted that you're bisexual.

Thanks for proving the original poster's point with your anger and rant.

LMAO do your really think that marrying a woman and having kids with her makes someone "straight" or actually heterosexual?

LOL Tell that to all of the large number of gay men who are closeted or on the down low and who have a wife and kids.

Most gay men and lesbians are closeted and married to someone of the opposite gender, or they have been married to a person of the opposite gender in the past.



As for what you're describing with your wife you discovered your sexuality later in life since you were closeted and in denial about your sexuality.

I've never been in denial about my sexuality but I've seen it in lots of people and I know what it looks like.

These are not nearly the same. Then again you're the one who frequently claims that bisexual erasure and biphobia are not real issues or actual issues that bisexuals face, and that biphobia is not nearly as hurtful or destructive as homophobia somehow. ;)



Living in denial and living in the closet, or being confused about your sexuality are powerful things.



Again this just shows how you were in denial about your sexuality and/or closeted and that bisexuals who once thought they were hetero/straight or identified as hetero/straight, never have been hetero or straight at all.

You may have thought you were hetero but you were not and never have been straight/hetero. You're bisexual but you let society dictate your life and thankfully you came out and stopped living in denial and in the closet.

Sorry Dude, but I think it is you who is not understanding sexual fluidity. Gays, lesbians and straights changing their sexual desire is fluidity, as many here have attested too. It's not simple denial as you say, not for everyone of us. Bisexuals, by mere definition are fluid already.

And about me, you read wrong. I had homosex when I was a child, but no homosexual desires. It was cause there were no willing girls around. It wasn't something I sought out. I had no desire to hide the true me at all, neither then or now.

Wow, you are so judgemental. Why do I smell something fishy with you (again)?

[swmnkdinthervr]

Originally Posted by swmnkdinthervr
While I had some uneasiness it was undoubtedly fun but society's constant pounding of homophobic values lead to shame/guilt feelings and I stopped the m2m play. At 14 I lost my hetero virginity and remained a completely hetero thinking/acting male until I was about 45 when I began to fantasize about cock play. I was about 50 when I decided to accept that my interest in cock was part of my "normal" sexuality but I didn't act on it again until I was about 53.



Again this just shows how you were in denial about your sexuality and/or closeted and that bisexuals who once thought they were hetero/straight or identified as hetero/straight, never have been hetero or straight at all.

You may have thought you were hetero but you were not and never have been straight/hetero. You're bisexual but you let society dictate your life and thankfully you came out and stopped living in denial and in the closet.

Whew...that's a lot of assumption on your part!!! I clearly stated I was a "hetero thinking/acting male" during that period. You certainly have no idea of my adolescent orientation and in reality have no idea of the evolution of my bisexual interest! So it would be wise to have a better understand of even the breadth/width/depth of my present bi interests (which have been posted here several times) before expounding at length on anyone other than yourself. Use yourself for an example next time.

In reality my teenage experience wasn't the major factor in shaping my interests today...there are so many other factors. As I pointed out that if you understood my interests today your view would be greatly differing, you throw a large blanket over a community that has a hugely differing range of interests and experiences!!!.