Psychology Today: Bisexuality means EQUAL attraction to men and women

[NotLostJustWandering]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finally-out/201107/the-messy-realities-bisexuality

Astounding that crap like this can still be published in a supposedly respectable magazine on psychology. The doctor claims that any man who is more attracted to men than women should be labeled "gay", confuses bisexuality with polyamory and implies that bisexuals can not commit to monogamous relationships. I pity the bisexual who sees this quack for therapy. Please read and post your opinions. I have.

[djones]

Great, another instance of a gay man defining Bisexuals based on his own experience and doing "research" to back up his assertion.

The one truth in the article is the statement that sexuality is not easily defined and there is no one pure measure or definition to any sexuality. Unfortunately, the author seems to contradict that statement through most of the article.

Again, the real problem isn't the flawed logic, but that this type of drivel is passed off as legitimate "science" and will be believed by the uninformed.

A true counter balance to this type of thing needs to be out in the mainstream media.

[tenni]

I have not read Psychology Today for decades. The last time I bought one was in an airport when I was looking for light reading material for a flight. I always found it to be "fluff" or at best a type of Readers' Digest version of any valid forms of research that had been published in reputable Psychology Journals. There is always a grain of truth in its articles but it has been so watered down that it loses validity. You need to do a lot more research in acknowledged journals before giving any concept in Psychology Today credibility. The media and general public do not know this and give it credibility in news reports cuz it has the word "psychology" in its trade mark. Some articles have more reputable credibility than other articles in Pyschology Today. This is not one of the more credible articles.

I found this article making some statements that align with self disclosure comments on this site. Neither have scientific credibility but this site has more credibility imo when compared to some statements in that article.

First point on looking at the article is that it is not written by a Psychologist but an MD who is a Psychiatrist. These are two separate and different approaches that are not compatible all the time. He uses psychoanalytical terms rather than Psychological terminology. He may even be mixing the two into his article. He is a gay man himself who has identified at one time as a bisexual. He may be in the same league in attempting to create a bi invisibility aspect as Savage.

There are statements such as "The term "bisexuality" lacks clarity about the differences between attraction, behavior or self-identity." which may have some validity but how he has presented this may not be backed up with research. It is an opinion article imo.:eek: Opinions do not usually count for much in psychological research. It seems that he refers to men who once identified as bisexual but now identify as gay to justify his views. There is dissonance for many bisexuals as they search for their identity but just because one person identifies as gay after some time does not invalidate those who identify as bisexual after a similar identity journey.

He introduces the concept of monogamy and polyamory. The similar conflicts exist on this site. Being one or the other probably does not help define a person as bisexual based on discussions on this site. However, our own little poll indicates (unscientifically) that the vast majority of self identified bisexuals on this site preferred an open relationship. That is significant in the arguments on this site let alone this psychiatrist's perspective. Of course there is dissonance for anyone in a monosexual monogamous society for those who do not "fit in". The person needs to go beyond tradition and the norms of society to feel self acceptance for their preferences. There are a lot of self statements required to validate the "I'm a good boy" feeling when so much is there saying "you are bad" for wanting an open relationship with both genders.

There are a lot more unproven or mixed statements in the article including such statements that brought in gender identity and mixed it in with sexual orientation that damage the credibility of his article. I would agree with some of his thoughts about the messiness of bisexuality. There may be some validity that the category of bisexuality is broad and may actually be broken down into sub categories before more credibility may be given to those under the term bisexual. This will be proven disproven by more scientific processes than this psychiatrist has used. Not the individuals but the theories about identify traits etc. about this sexual orientation.

[Gearbox]

I recently had a conversation with a married man who described himself as bisexual. I asked him if his attraction to men and women was equal. He affirmed that it was. I then asked, "How do you commit to one person if you must give up 50 percent of who you are?" He responded, "I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone. I want to have kids and grandchildren." I then asked him if he was sexually attracted to his wife or if his attraction was based on his attraction to the privileges of the traditional one man, one woman, and monogamy. He agreed that he was sexually attracted to men but socially attracted to his wife.
OMG!!:eek: Bi's in hetro relationships are no better than lying golddigers.:eek:
Oh the shame! The SHAME! Lets all beg the LGBT priests to class us as gay so we can atone for our sins!

What a wanker!:rolleyes:

[tenni]

"Oh the shame! The SHAME! Lets all beg the LGBT priests to class us as gay so we can atone for our sins!

What a wanker!"

Catholic or reformed Catholic..much...:tong:

[void()]

I recently had a conversation with a married man who described himself as bisexual. I asked him if his attraction to men and women was equal. He affirmed that it was. I then asked, "How do you commit to one person if you must give up 50 percent of who you are?" He responded, "I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone. I want to have kids and grandchildren." I then asked him if he was sexually attracted to his wife or if his attraction was based on his attraction to the privileges of the traditional one man, one woman, and monogamy. He agreed that he was sexually attracted to men but socially attracted to his wife.

I seem to recall such postings on this site. Interesting in a way. From my view of the article, he's stating bisexuality is a fluid spectrum. Really, now? I think we had already established as much.


wrote, "Bisexuality is being sexually attracted equally to both men and women." The response was swift and furious. "Am I defined accurately as bisexual only if I have one ejaculation with a woman for every ejaculation I have with a man?" I was accused of being a poor scientist and unfamiliar with the literature on bisexuality. My definition was considered far too restrictive.

I can agree on being sexually attracted to both men and women, equally. I further add, from personal experience, romantic or emotional attraction to both equally is possible as well. Everyone has their own definitions. I am simply me, unique just the same as everyone else. :)

Over all I don't feel compelled to disagree or agree with anything in the article. It seems nothing more than a filler piece which restates concurrent psychology views of bisexuality. "Um, okay. So, what's the hubbub, bub?"

[tenni]

Void
Do you believe that current psychological research supports his statements????
Really? I don't.

"He agreed that he was sexually attracted to men but socially attracted to his wife. "
That may be a gay man....dunno ...not my business as long as he isn't trying to preach what is a bisexual.

[lizard-lix]

OMG!!:eek: Bi's in hetro relationships are no better than lying golddigers.:eek:
Oh the shame! The SHAME! Lets all beg the LGBT priests to class us as gay so we can atone for our sins!

What a wanker!:rolleyes:

Yeah, kinda funny when folks say shit like that.. Straights give up all their extra activities in a monogamous relationship, and it's right and proper... But if a bi person does, it's got to be a sham!

Being bi simply means that there are twice as many people I don't sleep with lol

Married for 32 years, monogamous for all of them and still 100% bi...

Liz

[void()]

"Do you believe that current psychological research supports his statements????"

Okay, did I miss him obviously saying something like?:


Some say that any man with a penis who is attracted to another man is gay; their world is divided exclusively into gay and straight. But it's just not that simple. How "bisexuality" is applied depends a great deal upon who is using it. Many gay activists consider all closeted men who have sex with men (MSM) to be gay men in hiding, illegitimate members of the gay community. Bisexual activists and the MSM themselves often use "bisexual," but many of these MSM have not found the peace and freedom that comes with congruence of attraction, behavior and identity. For them, being a man still means being a husband and father while anything else is deviant.

No, I did not. But that is in context of the whole article. He is not saying all bisexual men are in fact closeted homosexual men. He is saying many homosexual men consider bisexual men as such. "Well color me transparent! Ain't that obviously, so?"

Yes, many homosexual men do consider bi men just closeted queers. Does it mean bi men are that? No. Does it invalidate homosexual men as homosexual men? No. Is this author saying any of this? No.

What I read is someone just repeating what seems current thought in the psychology field. A therapist I visited did not treat bisexuality as a disease, or symptom that could be magically cured. It was accepted as natural. I asked. The reply was more or less, "it happens, so what?"

We discussed and I was treated for depression. Some of it may have been linked to bisexuality. Mostly it was over feeling insecure and unhappy due to 'taking what you can get' as far as work, and 'kicking a dead horse', as in repeating the same things and expecting different results. "Hey, bud it's alright to walk away from the brick wall instead of bashing in your brains going up against it."

Really? I don't.

Good for you, although I don't quite agree that he is saying what you think he is. And if he is, then no I don't agree that is common thought in the field. Why not ask him to clarify for us?

[Katja]

What I read was an article by a man who has refused to move outside of his comfort zone. Void is right that much of what he says is currrent thinking but it is shallow and almost irrelevant. It is also misleading.

It is a simple matter to rewrite the article to describe almost anyone of any sexuality largely by sustituting another sexuality for bisexuality. His analyses throughout are ill researched and unimaginative. Almost all of his claims about bisexuals can easily be said of Gays, lesbians, transpeople and heterosexuals.

His views on bisexual activity can easily be attached to the heterosexual and gay communities. It is not only bisexual men who are frustrated by being held to a monogamous lifestyle, and it is not only bisexual men who indulge their sexual needs. Gay and straight men (and women) may not indulge those needs by fucking both genders, but they as commonly, if not more commonly, indulge their sexual needs both overtly and covertly.

The author refers to the stresses of being bisexual and mentions the incidence of depression among bisexual people, but pays insufficient attention to the reasons why these exist. He skims over the responsibility of the hetrosexual and homosexual communities for creating and perpetuating those stresses and the mentall illnesses which are often characteristic of the bisexual. He offers no solution and no vision which may help eliminate those stresses.

He uses as evidence quotes from 'A bisexual man' here and another 'bisexual' there. It is obvious to me that he is using those as a bolster to his own prejudices and illusions regarding bisexuality. It is a simple matter to dig out 'a bisexual' who will believe almost anything. The thoughts of 'a bisexual' tell us little except that they are the thoughts of a single person.

I will not say the author is anti bisexual but he is no great friend of bisexuals by his misunderstanding and misinterpretation of what being bisexual means. He appears stuck in a time warp like many in society, and is struggling to come to terms with the reality of a sexuality which he does not, nor cares to properly understand.

It is almost as if he sat down one evening when he was at a loose end and run off a few words off the top of his head which he felt look good on paper. He certainly did not have too think too hard about what he wrote.

[niftyshellshock]

OMG!!:eek: Bi's in hetro relationships are no better than lying golddigers.:eek:
Oh the shame! The SHAME! Lets all beg the LGBT priests to class us as gay so we can atone for our sins!

What a wanker!:rolleyes:

I'm bi and was in a hetero relationship. I am romantically attracted to women only.

http://www.wordans.us/wordansfiles/images/2011/4/19/76601/76601_340.jpg?1303186501

[BiDaveDtown]

I didn't read the article but I'm sure that quack shrink would see me as being "straight" because I'm married to a woman and monogamous with her.

I did not write this but someone posted it as a comment and if this is true it shows how Psychology today magazine or their blog promotes bigotry.

Now bisexuals are ugly
Submitted by Estraven2 on July 6, 2011 - 8:03pm.

Psychology Today recently published an article stating that black women are ugly, puporting to be research, that caused so much furor it had to be withdrawn. This opinion piece does about the same for the bisexual community. There is so much misinformation here, that has already been debunked so many times in so many places, that I am shocked that Psychology Today would even publish this. Don't they edit things any more?

I'm going straight to complaining to the editors; this is basically hate speech.

I found that comment and others on this page which you can write comments to and the psychologist/shrink will respond.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finally-out/201107/the-messy-realities-bisexuality/comments

Or you can get in touch with the head editor of Psychology today and tell him/her how you think that this article is bigotry which I will do later today.

[tenni]

BiDave
Just a small point but the writer is not a psychologist. He is a psychiatrist. There is a difference....some say huge difference...lol

[12voltman59]

My biggest point of contention with what he said is that if I understand him correctly--he argues that bisexuality should always work out to be a 50/50 deal---when I know for me and I think its true for most of us--our bisexuality is not always a 50/50 thing.

Bisexuality as I experience it seems to have an ebb and flow--at times with the desire and contact being more with men or with women--for me--as I continue to say--the way bisexuality expresses for me---I don't want to be with both a man and a woman at the same time---not to say I might not ever do that--but I really want to either be with a woman or be with a man--but not necessarily at the same time.

It does figure--he is a man who went from being hetero--had his time of indecision about his sexuality and then later figured he was gay--so to him--that is the way it must be for everyone--and probably the same for others he knows who followed the same route he did.

[NakedInSeattle]

I personally am getting sick of this obsessive need to define exactly what a person means when he/she calls himself/herself something and whether someone else agrees with that definition.

Would you ask a person of color whether they refer to themself as black, African-American, or negro and then argue whether that is the correct title?

A person IS who and what they say they are. If a man tells me he is straght, even if I know he has sex with men, he's straight as far as I'm concerned. If a man tells me he's bisexual, I'm not gonna ask him what percentage of the time he has sex with men and argue whether he is or isn't bisexual. And if a man tells me he's gay, I won't ask him if he has sex with women and argue whether he is gay or not depending on the answer.

Come on folks. Get off it. Let people be who and what they want to be and call themselves who and what they want to call themselves.

And most importantly - bless them and love them as they are.

[NotLostJustWandering]

Sure, people have the right to call themselves whatever they like. But calling yourself a chicken doesn't make you a chicken.

The only reason language works as a medium of communication is that we have common understanding of what words mean. The Humpty Dumpty stand of "I will use the word to mean what I what it to mean" promises nothing but a breakdown of communication. Dictionaries come in handy. Cf my post on the meaning of "bisexual" (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204411&postcount=33) in the "Less than bi?" thread.

[niftyshellshock]

I'm not bi, I'm an equal opportunity lover.

[pepperjack]

all I know is that every fetus is bisexual during the 1st 6 weeks of pregnancy& we make up 46% of the population.

[metaforical]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finally-out/201107/the-messy-realities-bisexuality

Astounding that crap like this can still be published in a supposedly respectable magazine on psychology. The doctor claims that any man who is more attracted to men than women should be labeled "gay", confuses bisexuality with polyamory and implies that bisexuals can not commit to monogamous relationships. I pity the bisexual who sees this quack for therapy. Please read and post your opinions. I have.

Hey I'm new here. :waves: I dated a psychologist who broke up with me because of the above opinion. He was sure I was incapable of monogamy. I also dated a woman who broke up with me when she found out I was bisexual because she thought that meant I was sleeping with men while I was dating her!

I am SO not a tramp. I go for long periods of time completely celebate! Where do these bigots get off saying these things? Especially gay people who know exactly what it's like?

[love1234]

I'm way more attracted to hot young females so I guess I'm not bisexual any more:-)

[love1234]

Hey I'm new here. :waves: I dated a psychologist who broke up with me because of the above opinion. He was sure I was incapable of monogamy. I also dated a woman who broke up with me when she found out I was bisexual because she thought that meant I was sleeping with men while I was dating her!

I am SO not a tramp. I go for long periods of time completely celebate! Where do these bigots get off saying these things? Especially gay people who know exactly what it's like?
A lot of gay males that I have known over the decades are kind of sluts.

So maybe they think most people are like that? They could even think bi males are doing all the guys they are and lots of females also so think they are even more the slut than them?

Lesbian females also seem to go from lover to lover so again do they give bisexuals females a bad reputation?

Back in the day when I went to gay bars these gay females seem to be full of drama. Some seemed to fight non stop.

What straight person would want to deal with this. Look at l word the tv shows.

Most all the people are not stable so again this could scare straight people.

Most bi people seem ok to me compared to gay males and females:-)

[metaforical]

I was reading the posts here yesterday and remembered this conversation I and a couple of co-workers had one day at work. It illustrates for me the difference between gay/straight and bisexual.

A pretty young thing walked by the office in which we worked. 'D' (lesbian) and 'T' (straight man) and I watched her pass.

'T' "That Jen is just my type. With that cute little nose and mouth and I like small breasts."

'D' "And super fem. I like super fem girls."

'T' (Looks at me) "What about you, M? Is she your type?"

'Me' "I don't know her. What's she like?"

'D' (laughs) "A real uber bitch."

'T' (nods) "I heard she made her PA cry."

'Me' "Nope, she's not my type. I don't like mean people."

I'm attracted to people not genitalia.

It's very nice to be here!:flag4:

[djones]

I'm attracted to people with genitalia.

[just4mefc]

Well I have been off this site for some time now so let me first start my saying hello and I have missed you all.

In regards to the post my first point, it is not an article per se but a BLOG post. We can't get in an uproar over some blog post so while I agree this is dribble past along as science I don't blame Psychology Today. It is a blog and simply a forum for OPINION.

That said, what a load of crap!

Had the author read the APA stance...

"Sexual Orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional attraction to another person... Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. Persons with a homosexual orientation are sometimes referred to as gay (both men and women) or as lesbian (women only). Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and self-concept. Persons may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors."

He would have had little to write about. Of course he is an MD and not a psychologist so it is likely his own hubris that stopped him from doing even a simple google search for a solid definition.

A few more points...

Fidelity has nothing to do with being Bisexual IMHO. Bi, straight or gay you are responsible for your actions. A straight man married to a redhead might still be attracted to blondes but he certainly can not justify his infidelity by saying well he is "bi-hair-tual" and is therefore entitled to be with blondes behind the back of the redhead. The biggest issue to me remains that both the gay and str8 community want things to be absolute. No one wants to accept that we are born Bi and are nurtured to be something else. This is not to say choice but the word "nurture" is often seen as conscious "choice" - of course it is not usually choice at all.

The comments on depression are just silly. The problem here is that most bi people will never come forward as "bi" we can infer that the number of people with same sex desire is a very large percentage but we will likely never know the real numbers. Therefore those reporting as bi and depressed are not a true representation of the average Bi person.

Most "bi" people don't need a "coming out" process. It would appear that from a psychological perspective, unlike the "gay/lesbian" population, there is very little benefit to be gained. How do I back that up you might ask? Well this site is a great example: the membership here is rather small. You would think that a site called "Bisexual.com" would have a huge number of members and that we would all have this great relief and be calling the masses to "come out" and yet most of us don't. Additionally if "coming out bi" had any real benefit then we would have seen huge numbers of people doing it. Clearly the process is very important in "coming out gay" but seeing how the Bi umbrella really is enormous the small percentage who do need this step find little support from the LGBT community because they are most often told "you are kidding yourself you are really gay and we will help you get the rest of the way home"

The author of the blog post is clearly biased. I understand why he might be. Let's face it if you are a member of the gay community then you really do have as they call it "family" but as a member of the Bi world there is no sense of alignment at all. Many who pass from str8 to gay might be drawn as much by the need for family as the need for same sex contact. We have a few members here who went from Gay to bi and I find their stories very interesting. In fact I have a personal friend who I have known to be a lesbian for 25 years recently tell me of her new boyfriend. I said boyfriend? what? She said yeah it just sort of happen I guess I am bi after all. One story and not proof of anything but was fascinating how she now feels pressured from her longtime lesbian friends to see this as "just a phase". Remember when Anne Hecht was "gay" and now str8 again. She was racked over the coals by every gay person I know. The community saw her as a traitor.

IMHO both the str8 and gay world are invested in us being one or the other. We scare the crap out of both sides!

[NotLostJustWandering]

Well I have been off this site for some time now so let me first start my saying hello and I have missed you all.

Welcome back!


In regards to the post my first point, it is not an article per se but a BLOG post. We can't get in an uproar over some blog post so while I agree this is dribble past along as science I don't blame Psychology Today. It is a blog and simply a forum for OPINION.

If only it were true. The original article HAS run in the print edition of PT; the blog posting merely enables feedback between readers and the author.

I pretty much agree with you on the points you raise, but while coming out as bi may seem to offer only danger and condemnation, the act of doing it adds that much more visibility, and thereby creates opportunity to educate the general public, and as I have found, encourages other bis to come out in turn to you. This is how we build community and fight back against the ignorance and hatred. People's minds expand through face-to-face contact much more than by anything you or I post here or anywhere. People get over their fear and prejudices by learning that people they love or simply respect actually belong to the group they hated.

[Bisexual Explorer]

More stupidity from people (psychologists) who should know better.
What the hell does EQUAL mean? That I am attracted to men and women all the time or to men exactly half the time and to women the other half of the time? Suppose I am attracted to one gender 4/5th of the time and the other 1/5th of the time? Am I a tetrasexual? That's today. Suppose tomorrow the ratio is 1/4, 3/4? Am I a quadrasexual? Maybe equal means that things average out over time. Do I have to keep track? To steal Samantha's line from Sex and the City, "I am a try sexual. I'll try anything." Oops got distracted. Now back to the rant.

I define my sexuality, not some pseudo scientific pop rag! And, it matters only to me and my partners. Everyone else can take a flying you know what!

Wow...now I feel better.

g

[Molecular]

I personally am getting sick of this obsessive need to define exactly what a person means when he/she calls himself/herself something and whether someone else agrees with that definition.

Would you ask a person of color whether they refer to themself as black, African-American, or negro and then argue whether that is the correct title?

A person IS who and what they say they are. If a man tells me he is straght, even if I know he has sex with men, he's straight as far as I'm concerned. If a man tells me he's bisexual, I'm not gonna ask him what percentage of the time he has sex with men and argue whether he is or isn't bisexual. And if a man tells me he's gay, I won't ask him if he has sex with women and argue whether he is gay or not depending on the answer.

Come on folks. Get off it. Let people be who and what they want to be and call themselves who and what they want to call themselves.

And most importantly - bless them and love them as they are.

I completely agree!

[just4mefc]

More stupidity from people (psychologists) who should know better.
What the hell does EQUAL mean? That I am attracted to men and women all the time or to men exactly half the time and to women the other half of the time? Suppose I am attracted to one gender 4/5th of the time and the other 1/5th of the time? Am I a tetrasexual? That's today. Suppose tomorrow the ratio is 1/4, 3/4? Am I a quadrasexual? Maybe equal means that things average out over time. Do I have to keep track? To steal Samantha's line from Sex and the City, "I am a try sexual. I'll try anything." Oops got distracted. Now back to the rant.

I define my sexuality, not some pseudo scientific pop rag! And, it matters only to me and my partners. Everyone else can take a flying you know what!

Wow...now I feel better.

g

Quick point, this was from a Psychiatrist not a Psychologist. BIG BIG difference. Sex and the City my ass I have been saying that for 30 years ;-]

[just4mefc]

Welcome back!



If only it were true. The original article HAS run in the print edition of PT; the blog posting merely enables feedback between readers and the author.

I pretty much agree with you on the points you raise, but while coming out as bi may seem to offer only danger and condemnation, the act of doing it adds that much more visibility, and thereby creates opportunity to educate the general public, and as I have found, encourages other bis to come out in turn to you. This is how we build community and fight back against the ignorance and hatred. People's minds expand through face-to-face contact much more than by anything you or I post here or anywhere. People get over their fear and prejudices by learning that people they love or simply respect actually belong to the group they hated.

I thank you for the kind greeting and I hope you are well?

I did not see a post of the article being printed in the magazine (Psychology Lite) so my bad on that. I don't disagree with you that there is a global reward to the "outing" process and the community as a whole would benefit I just don't see the inherent personal reward. It is not just a fear of condemnation but a lack of perceived personal growth. So I think most Bi people simply say what is in it for me? Why go through something that does not help me? Perhaps we are simply lazy? Additionally, my friend, I feel you give your fellow human too much credit for a compassion most will never have. I have had many a conversation with both str8 and gay people about the subject of bisexuality without ever discussing my personal orientation. In fact all believe I am str8. This has allowed me to have some really interesting conversation without causing the other person to feel personally threatened. I think the divides within the Bi world are simply too great. Even this small group of Bi's on this site can not find much in terms of common ground. Just look at many fights we have had regarding should a Bi person be monogamous? If we can't even agree on some "proper" etiquette of behavior among ourselves how can we ever be a community who stands against bigotry etc??? Hell we have fights as too whether or not someone is truly "bi" wtf??? I hope I am wrong but seems to me the further we go the more bigoted people become. I personally have been rewarded many times when I have "bi outed" myself, but the discussion then shifts to personal experience rather then the deeper global Bi conversation. But I doubt I will ever see a purpose in hanging a "bi flag" from my porch.
:2cents: