Am I cheating on my wife because I am bi?

[Tomdes]

I love my wife and don't want to lose her, but my lifetime desire to have sex with guys is becoming impossible to ignore. If the opportunity presents itself and I go for it, will this be cheating? Is it that simple or more complex? I would welcome everyone's opinion!
Tom

[Long Duck Dong]

simple is a answer like if she knows and gives permission, no its generally not

simple is a answer like if she doesn't know, and you do it behind her back, its chearting

complex is a answer like she knows a lil bit but you have not discussed it with her and you have both fantisised about it without actually discussing it and while hes ok with the bed room between you and her, but shes never indicated that you have permission and you are engaging in activities with other people that could be seen as cheating.... then its most likely that you are cheating lol

she is your partner, why are you not talking with her about this issue, cos we are not the ones that can divorce you and you can not lose us cos you are unfaithful to your partner ?

[talktome81]

I think you should talk to your wife about it. Do like I do and hint around about it that way you kinda know her feelings before you go out and say anything. Then if she doesn't seem that she's okay with it you will know where you stand at. Thays all I can come up with.

[Tomdes]

Hello again

Just to clarify, my wife is aware of my feelings and sexuality and accepts in principle. When discussing her answer is that I should stop being selfish and get over it! She doesn't want to discuss it again. I try to hope it will go away but it is like being tormented. Plus it's not helping our sexlife either!!

[DanniNeels]

Frst you need to offer her the option of being included. This must be done carefully & creatively, but if your drive is as strong as you say, then you must have done this already. If you piss your wife off or scare her with it by just coming out to her, then she will consult with someone close to her that you both know & you will be outed & divorced before you know it! Start slow with fantasy talk in bed before sex & what if she was sucking another guy while you were licking her... Stuff like that & ask her if she would do things with a girl... Girls volunteering for 3 ways are rare, so if you go the "I will be with a guy if you are willing to be with a girl" route, then it will probably work out that all you meet will be guys. Tell her in order to keep things even & other from being jealous, that you 2 can only be with the same sex in each others presence & if she is turned on by m/m sex, then eventually she will be cool with you having fun with a trusted play friend alone. If the thought of m/m sex repulsed her, then stay in the closet & never let her in there & find a male "friend" that you can hang with to do other "stuff" with & just have sex with him instead of going to the "baseball game".

[welickit]

Your wife has given you her answer and that is the only one that that counts. No opinion or reply here is going to change her answer. You seem to be looking here for a means of justifying cheating. You will probably do it regardless. We hope you are prepared in advance for what the results may be.

[RockGardener]

A) No, you're cheating on your wife because you want sex with someone other than her without her knowledge/permission

B) No, you're cheating on your wife because you want to, bi has nothing to do with it. You can be bi and not cheat on your wife.
1) Get her knowledge/permission.
2) Don't have sex with others.
3) Don't be married.

[Lisa (va)]

My personal opinion on what I consider to be cheating is really not relevant to youjr life. So, instead of answering your question, I will ask you a question.

If you are presented with an opportunity and act on it, would your wife consider it cheating?

Lisa

hugs n kisses

[Briar Rose]

Answer honestly, if only to yourself--How would you feel if you discovered that someone you loved and trusted and had a "monogamy agreement" with had engaged in sexual activity with someone else without your knowledge?

Take gender out of it.

If you're relieved then you have another kind of issue.

I would be pissed--but lies of any kind, including omission, press a major button for me. And I would be afraid, afraid that the lies include unsafe sex, afraid that the lies have rocked the emotional foundation of my world to the point of crumbling. That's me.

The devil's in the details, I know that and I won't tell you how to live what is your life after all. Some people are not suited to monogamy. Some are. But I do believe in emotional honesty and truth with others and with ourselves. It's a pretty rigorous standard. Sometimes I fail.

I would ask you to try to walk in your spouse's shoes honestly and with compassion. Because it's good for all of us to try to see each other with deeper insight. Will she do that for you? I don't know, but I think you will have a more likely chance at it if you do it for her first. After all, you are the one who's needs have changed.

It may be that you will decide to change your life pretty thoroughly to accommodate these stronger urges.

Change is often painful and difficult; it is almost always the harder road. Only you can add up the positives and negatives of your potential choices and weigh them on your personal scale--but the consequences of our decisions do not affect us alone. Who do we love? We are none of us islands alone no matter how much we feel that way.

[shroderdog]

Hello again

Just to clarify, my wife is aware of my feelings and sexuality and accepts in principle. When discussing her answer is that I should stop being selfish and get over it! She doesn't want to discuss it again. I try to hope it will go away but it is like being tormented. Plus it's not helping our sexlife either!!


yes, this is cheating she has expressed her thoughts and wishes to move on. it has nothing to do with sexual preference.

I am willing to hazard a guess that there also may be an issue of miscommunication as well. I suggest going to a couples counselor and have them act as an intermediary. Perhaps they can help you? There is a great list of kink and alternative lifestyle friendly therapists/counselors here https://www.ncsfreedom.org/resources/kink-aware-professionals-directory/kap-directory-homepage.html

[jamieknyc]

This is a question that keeps coming up again and again on this froum. There is no real answer to the dilemma.

As everyone else said, the 'short answer' is that yes, it is cheating. What you do then is an issue of situational ethics.

Some people here say that if a spouse is unwilling to accept your bi-ness you should divorce them rather than cheat. I never understood why it is supposed to be better to f*** up someone's life than to do something without their knowledge, but some people think it is the principled thing to do.

[Diva667]

This is a question that keeps coming up again and again on this froum. There is no real answer to the dilemma.

As everyone else said, the 'short answer' is that yes, it is cheating. What you do then is an issue of situational ethics.

Some people here say that if a spouse is unwilling to accept your bi-ness you should divorce them rather than cheat. I never understood why it is supposed to be better to f*** up someone's life than to do something without their knowledge, but some people think it is the principled thing to do.

Because if you catch something from a playmate and bring it home... why should your (non-cheating) spouse pay for it?

It's best to be honest about it, if they can't or won't tolerate it and you still intend to do it, then it's best not to be in that relationship.

[Tomdes]

I guess I should have interpreted these answers as default. Truth be known I know the answer is yes it will be cheating! spot on with what if the roles were reversed!! I would be devastated!! If I'm looking for you all to justify my intended actions, then clearly I have made a fool of myself. No, I have not yet crossed this line!! Accepting graciously all your comments as honest truths, then I know I must continue to abstain..
So.... Here I am, found a great site with cool minded people on board, that increases my resolve and yet I still dont know how to maintain stable control of these powerful urges. They have existed most of my life and bother me relentlessly.
I cannot and will not lose the love of my life, so I guess I have my answer!
Keep it buried and under control.
I have not cheated on my wife!
Thanks everyone..

[flyer]

I just want to take a different view on cheating.

Tomdes's wife doesn't want him to act on his feelings and doesn't want to talk about it. She has the rules on her side - she can say No and not talk about it. He still has his feelings. She puts their relationship on the line. He chooses not to wreck it.

Both Tomdes and his wife need to take ownership of his feelings - that is what marriage is about. Right now Tomdes is doing all the giving, his wife all the taking by playing by social rules. That's what I call cheating.

[mikey3000]

I'll tell you what I did, NOT what you should do. That is up to you.

I had cravings too that needed to be tested, so I found a guy and hooked up. I needed to see if my feelings were just mere curiousity or the real thing. Once I realised they were real and wouldn't go away, I decised to come clean with the wife. We fought like there was no tomorrow for months on end. It was emotional terrorism and I was so sick of it, so I played my final card. I couldn't continue depriving myself of what I needed, so I gave her the choice to either stay and work out new rules, or she can leave. I offered her everything, the house, the cars, the kids, everything. I told her it would be a clean break and she would ever see me again. And I meant it.

She stayed and now her and my guy friend are close friends. I couldn't leave either of them without the other kicking my ass. So now I'm stuck. LOL!!

Good luck.

[Katja]

I just want to take a different view on cheating.

Tomdes's wife doesn't want him to act on his feelings and doesn't want to talk about it. She has the rules on her side - she can say No and not talk about it. He still has his feelings. She puts their relationship on the line. He chooses not to wreck it.

Both Tomdes and his wife need to take ownership of his feelings - that is what marriage is about. Right now Tomdes is doing all the giving, his wife all the taking by playing by social rules. That's what I call cheating.

Expecting a person to stick to rules agreed to at the outset and the promises made is cheating? Interesting take in things.

[Katja]

I'll tell you what I did, NOT what you should do. That is up to you.

I had cravings too that needed to be tested, so I found a guy and hooked up. I needed to see if my feelings were just mere curiousity or the real thing. Once I realised they were real and wouldn't go away, I decised to come clean with the wife. We fought like there was no tomorrow for months on end. It was emotional terrorism and I was so sick of it, so I played my final card. I couldn't continue depriving myself of what I needed, so I gave her the choice to either stay and work out new rules, or she can leave. I offered her everything, the house, the cars, the kids, everything. I told her it would be a clean break and she would ever see me again. And I meant it.

She stayed and now her and my guy friend are close friends. I couldn't leave either of them without the other kicking my ass. So now I'm stuck. LOL!!

Good luck.

A silk lined ultimatum. Very nice. I'm glad it seems to have worked for you, and truly hope it always does. However a word of warning; people may apparently have conceded in the face of the inevitable, but occasionally, they seek wreak revenge the person who issues that ultimatum.

That gold plated ultimatum may yet prove the catalyst to your arse being bitten and not sexually.

[jamieknyc]

It's best to be honest about it, if they can't or won't tolerate it and you still intend to do it, then it's best not to be in that relationship.

I am sorry but I am not a believer in throwaway marriage.

[RockGardener]

So, Jamie, it's better to cheat in a relationship, than to say "Look, honey, I need to go outside this marriage and have sex with others. Would this be ok for you?" If you can't tell her because you know she won't approve, then you have no business doing it.

I still don't understand guys who can't tell their wives that they're bi, because then she will not love them anymore. I don't see how it's better to let her love someone that she doesn't really know. If you keep a secret that big from your loved one, then they are not loving the person that they think they are.

[Diva667]

I am sorry but I am not a believer in throwaway marriage.


So it's better to bring home HIV, Hep-C, gonorrhea or some other std? Then when she finds out , what happens to her? Don't tell me it doesn't happen either. It happens far too often. This is one of many reasons bisexuals have a bad reputation.

[tenni]

I agree with JamieNY that this issue for bisexual men comes up over and over again. The simple solution about talk to your partner falls short in this case as it does for so many married bisexual men.

The wife's reaction should not be acceptable to any bisexual on this site. It seems to be acceptable for some though(interestingly mostly women) as their only solution in this situation is to divorce if your wife refuses to find a solution that works for both. What steps may be attempted to resolve the wife's behaviour?

I agree that in this situation the man is expected to do all the giving and his wife all the taking. I think that idea that she is actually cheating on the marriage by her actions is worth much more contemplation and examination. So far he has not cheated but brought forward his situation. So many (women?) on this board seem to be espousing a monosexual perception or at least an opinion that fails the OP's dilemna.

The argument about him bringing home an STI should be examined separately from examining the wife's behaviour. They are two different issues. STI is a risk for any open relationship. The issue of the wife refusing to permit a more open relationship is the bisexual issue of this thread and how it impacts bisexual men's lives.

[Diva667]

I agree with JamieNY that this issue for bisexual men comes up over and over again. The simple solution about talk to your partner falls short in this case as it does for so many married bisexual men.

The wife's reaction should not be acceptable to any bisexual on this site. It seems to be acceptable for some though(interestingly mostly women) as their only solution in this situation is to divorce if your wife refuses to find a solution that works for both.

I agree that in this situation the man is expected to do all the giving and his wife all the taking. I think that idea that she is actually cheating on the marriage by her actions is worth much more contemplation and examination. So far he has not cheated but brought forward his situation. So many women on this board seem to be espousing a monosexual perception or at least an opinion that fails the OP's dilemna.

The argument about him bringing home an STI should be examined separately from examining he wife's behaviour. They are two different issues.

No they are not two separate issues. It is relevant. If you have sex outside your relationship with out informing your partner you are removing their choice, no choice equals no consent. You are exposing them to risk(life and death in some cases) without their consent.

I'm not saying that it has to be a monogamous / monosexual relationship, I am saying it needs to be talked about. Any partner in a loving relationship deserves to have the right to say what they can and cannot accept. Otherwise why bother? Isn't the marriage over at the point when one partner actively disregards the others health and life without their consent?

Or perhaps try this on - What if the shoes were reversed? Would you accept your partner sleeping around without your knowledge?

Would you point a gun at your partners head while they are asleep? It is the same thing. You are exposing them to risk without their consent.

[tenni]

We may have to agree to disagree as I still see STI transmission as a separate issue.

The wife has already shut down discussion and told him (more or less) to stop talking nonsense. She is in denial about his bisexuality. You seem to expect him to accept her position. She has put the gun to his head and told him to stfu (basically)

How do you suggest that he talk to her to get her to open up her mind to acknowledge that she is married to a bisexual man? How does he get her to attend marriage counselling? She told him that he is being silly. She is in denial.

Even a poster's reaction to Mikey's successful resolution about getting his wife to accept his bisexuality is given a warning by a woman poster! Gee I agree that it was a drastic approach and can we examine more intermediary approaches to get a heterosexual partner to open up to find a better compromise to bisexuality?

[RockGardener]

So many women on this board seem to be espousing a monosexual perception or at least an opinion that fails the OP's dilemna.



I am not espousing monosexual anything. The question was... "Am I cheating if I play with others?"

Again I say... If you have an agreement to be with only one person, and you break that agreement, you are cheating.

And... he wouldn't have asked it if he didn't already know it in his heart.

Now that she knows about the the bisexuality and has nixed any contact, it's time for negotiation. The possible outcomes seem to be...
1) She continues to forbid ss contact, and he accepts it, and buries "the bi". (not cheating)
2) She gives in but doesn't want to hear about it.
(tacit permission, not cheating)
3) She accepts this new aspect of their relationship and enjoys!
(not cheating)
4) He goes behind her back and does it anyway.
(cheating)

[Diva667]

We may have to agree to disagree as I still see STI transmission as a separate issue.

The wife has already shut down discussion and told him (more or less) to stop talking nonsense. She is in denial about his bisexuality. You seem to expect him to accept her position.

How do you suggest that he talk to her to get her to open up her mind to acknowledge that she is married to a bisexual man? How does he get her to attend marriage counselling? She told him that he is being silly. She is in denial.

Marriage Counseling is not sleeping with someone else.

Whether she is in denial, or not, is beside the point.

He has a choice, we all do. Maybe he needs to tell her that he can't accept that and move out until she accepts his bisexuality. Or perhaps he needs to sleep on the couch for a few days until she accepts it. Perhaps he just needs to take her in the car to the counselor.

There are many ways, outside of having sex outside the marriage, to get her into counseling and/ or get her to accept his bisexuality.

Being bi, in and of itself, is not cheating, having sex(with out her knowledge and consent) outside the marriage is.

[tenni]

Diva
The OP has not cheated...yet. Start with that position. The point that she is in denial or not taking seriously his needs as a bisexual man is the point on the table. His question was would it be cheating but there is so much more bisexual issues behind that question that this board frequently ignores when a bi man raises his difficulty with a hetero partner.

Your solution is simplistic about moving on and telling him to give up on his marriage and the woman that he loves. Now, your point about removing himself from sleeping with her until she attends counselling or some other act that raises his concern to a level that she sees the issue as important to him...may have some validity. He may also want to go to bi friendly counselling on his own is another possible approach. Letting her know that he is going to counselling because of his bisexuality may make her pay more attention to his issues.

[Katja]

I agree with JamieNY that this issue for bisexual men comes up over and over again. The simple solution about talk to your partner falls short in this case as it does for so many married bisexual men.

The wife's reaction should not be acceptable to any bisexual on this site. It seems to be acceptable for some though(interestingly mostly women) as their only solution in this situation is to divorce if your wife refuses to find a solution that works for both. What steps may be attempted to resolve the wife's behaviour?

I agree that in this situation the man is expected to do all the giving and his wife all the taking. I think that idea that she is actually cheating on the marriage by her actions is worth much more contemplation and examination. So far he has not cheated but brought forward his situation. So many (women?) on this board seem to be espousing a monosexual perception or at least an opinion that fails the OP's dilemna.

The argument about him bringing home an STI should be examined separately from examining the wife's behaviour. They are two different issues. STI is a risk for any open relationship. The issue of the wife refusing to permit a more open relationship is the bisexual issue of this thread and how it impacts bisexual men's lives.

The poor man can't get his way because the wife expects her husband to adhere to agreements and promises made and because she refuses to change those agreemnts and allow broken promises, it is she who should be hauled over the coals for cheating? She who should be examined for bad faith? She who is to blame? You have the most weird sense of honour and integrity.

I am not trying to say that agreements cannot or should not be changed, but really! What you suggest is a twisting of logic to pin the blame where it does not belong and point the finger of responsibility at the one person to which it does not belong.

Trying to use such emotional blackmail would be a criminal abuse of a person's integrity and own sense of morality by twisting things to make that person accept her share of guilt. I hope that you are thoroughly proud of yourself. What you have waffled on about is as dishonest as it gets.

To the OP it may seem I have no sympathy with your plight but that is not true and my use of the expression 'poor man' is not aimed at you, but more Tenni's use of language to describe your plight and (extremely dishonest) options he makes available to you.

I was not innocent of cheating myself, but at no time did I ever blame anyone but myself for my actions, least of all my then husband. It is nice to see that you are decent enough not to simply go ahead and cheat willy nilly. That is far more honest than I was and I commend you for it and for that honesty you have my respect.

Returning to Tenni, I go along with Diva. Even in a scenario where it is accepted that one or both partners is allowed to play the field, the spectre of disease being brought to the marital/partnership bed is always there, but awareness can lessen the risk, which cheating cannot. When it comes to promiscuity and STD's the one is so tied up with the other they simply cannot be divorced.

I also agree with Diva on the issue of counselling which may or may not help you both, but as things stand, unless one or other backs down completely, then your difficulties will remain. Even if one or other of you does back down, then such is the fragility I see in your relationship that you may well need counselling anyway. Whatever you do it is quite possible that in the end you will separate.

There is no room for compromise in this issue. One loses or the other. W Whichever one of you that is doesnt matter and I hesistate to say one wins, because by crushing the core beliefs, needs and desires of another is not something I call victory, and quite frankly at the end of the day you may well find that both of you lose.

What Tenni says is that the wife's stand is unreasonable and cannot be acceptable by any bisexual on this site. That is plainly shit. We may not like it but we have to accept it. Certainly the wife should accept her husband's bisexuality; it is equally disrespectful not to, and it may well be she is in denial, but denial is not the point at issue.

The issue in a sense is not one of bisexuality but simply of good old fashioned fidelity. Many bisexuals are great believers in fidelity and expect their partner to be faithful till the end of time. Many themselves, and Tenni makes great play of most being women, stay faithful to their partner forever and a day whether that partner is man or woman, and many of these bisexuals are themselves men.

To the OP I say, darling I hope you get your hearts desire and with the least possible pain all round. Equally I hope that your wife gets out of this what she wants. It will take much talking and a great deal of effort by both of your to resolve your dilemma, but it cannot be resolved, short of a complete change of heart and conviction by one or other of you, by both of you getting what you want. And how Tenni thinks it should be played out is a sure fire recipe for disaster and bitterness.

Good luck darling, I wish you both well.

[Diva667]

@tenni -

My Comments were in response to Jamie's position that not telling her (and cheating) was preferable to breaking up the marriage. Not in response to the OP.

If you can't be honest in the marriage, then there is no marriage to break up.

Just as in contract law , if there is no "meeting of the minds" there can be no true contract.

Yes, they need to have a long discussion about his bisexuality and what it means to their relationship. Perhaps there will be a re-negotiation of the terms of their relationship, perhaps not. That was beyond the scope of my comments.

[Tomdes]

Thank so much everyone.

I believe everyones comments have been well worth reading and I take on board everyones advise. I guess as it has already been pointed out that I new the answer already but really do feel stronger having listened your discussions. Beleive me no matter what the future holds for my sexuality I have no intention of losing my wife and daughters to my sexual urges! I would however love to make friends with like minded people here, as it really does feel like you are all councillers anyway. I sincerely hope that this form of contact will not represent cheating either?? If my wife new I had bisexual friends here I fear this would suggest to her my intention towards infadelity. This is not my intention, I simply have found some solace in talking to you guys and I hope long may it continue.

Gratefull TomDes

[flyer]

Expecting a person to stick to rules agreed to at the outset and the promises made is cheating? Interesting take in things.

It may be cheating in the sense of diminishing if it denies the other person the chance to express what they feel. The starting point is very strong - as you say, to stick to rules agreed to and the promises made at the outset - but it doesn't mean that the rules can never be discussed or changed or evolve, especially as the two people get to know each other and themselves better over time. Good relationships involve adjustment not rigidity and no rule is absolute (not even Thou shalt not kill, as many soldiers will testify). The best relationships adjust broadly and deeply in order to fully accept and love the other person. The worst relationships stick rigidly to the rules.

[Long Duck Dong]

It may be cheating in the sense of diminishing if it denies the other person the chance to express what they feel. The starting point is very strong - as you say, to stick to rules agreed to and the promises made at the outset - but it doesn't mean that the rules can never be discussed or changed or evolve, especially as the two people get to know each other and themselves better over time. Good relationships involve adjustment not rigidity and no rule is absolute (not even Thou shalt not kill, as many soldiers will testify). The best relationships adjust broadly and deeply in order to fully accept and love the other person. The worst relationships stick rigidly to the rules.

yes, agreed, adjustment and change.... but it appears to be that you are saying that unless the wife does things your way, she will be wrong......

if the wife is monogamous natured, then she will not cope with a open relationship.... pushing her to accept one, will not be in the best interests of either person and may well end up in divorce.....

now your statement that the best relationships adjust broadly and deeply in order to fully accept and love the other person....... why is that only directed one way...... ??? cos what you are saying is pointing towards the fact that the person that should make the biggest adjusts and changes, is the wife so that tomdes can have a open relationship........

its a common argument used in the forum, that the relationship / marriage will be better cos the bisexual is having the sex they want and desire...... but while that may be true for the bisexual, its the other partner that has had to make most of the sacrifices in the relationship and the compromising......

thats hardly fair or balanced... when we are quick to talk about equal rights for both parthers in relationships.....

now the argument can be used that the non bisexual partner is being selfish cos they get everything their own way.... and thats ignoring the fact that the non bisexual partner also has to abide by their own rules, they also lack the freedom to go fuck the hot, sexy person down the road...... so its a rule that goes both ways......

[mikey3000]

A silk lined ultimatum. Very nice. I'm glad it seems to have worked for you, and truly hope it always does. However a word of warning; people may apparently have conceded in the face of the inevitable, but occasionally, they seek wreak revenge the person who issues that ultimatum.

That gold plated ultimatum may yet prove the catalyst to your arse being bitten and not sexually.
LOL! I really am beginning to believe you do hate men. It seems we can never do right by you.

I gave an ultimatum? How so? She gave the ultimatum and I called her bluff.

Geez, I wish we all could live in the perfect world you do. Life wold be so black and white then, wouldn't it?

[Katja]

It may be cheating in the sense of diminishing if it denies the other person the chance to express what they feel. The starting point is very strong - as you say, to stick to rules agreed to and the promises made at the outset - but it doesn't mean that the rules can never be discussed or changed or evolve, especially as the two people get to know each other and themselves better over time. Good relationships involve adjustment not rigidity and no rule is absolute (not even Thou shalt not kill, as many soldiers will testify). The best relationships adjust broadly and deeply in order to fully accept and love the other person. The worst relationships stick rigidly to the rules.

I actually dont demur much from what you say because in most relationships they do evolve and the dynamics do change. How people approach things at the beginning are often not the same as after 5 10 20 or 40 years. But we are not talking a little issue here. We are talking what is to one person a fundamental issue of principle. To accuse someone of adhering to that as being a cheat is bull.

I sympathise very much with Tomdes plight, and wish his wife had a different view and a different moral attitude, but I doubt he would dream of accusing his wife of being a cheat for refusing him his wish. Some things to some people are much too important to surrender on such an important point as we are discussing here.

For some people to twist things to make her out to be a cheat is a perversion of any natural logic or justice.

[Katja]

LOL! I really am beginning to believe you do hate men. It seems we can never do right by you.

I gave an ultimatum? How so? She gave the ultimatum and I called her bluff.

Geez, I wish we all could live in the perfect world you do. Life wold be so black and white then, wouldn't it?

Your words;so I gave her the choice to either stay and work out new rules, or she can leave.

That, darling, is an ultimatum. Yes you called her bluff but is that not what an ultimatum is intended to do?

Some men will rarely do right by me, Mikey, and I am quite sure you would be one. The overwhelming majority do right by me most of the time. And you can believe what you like because quite frankly, darling, I dont give a fucking fig.

[tenni]

"I sympathise very much with Tomdes plight, and wish his wife had a different view and a different moral attitude, but I doubt he would dream of accusing his wife of being a cheat for refusing him his wish. Some things to some people are much too important to surrender on such an important point as we are discussing here. "

The point is that I do not believe that you totally understand what is being discussed here for bisexual men who end up married to women who shut down like this.

He has discussed his sexuality with her. She has refused to be more open to resolving this conflict. It is not a conflict for her. Her life is unchanged and she demands that he put this foolish idea away. If he did physcially cheat, she would be seen as a victim rather than responsible to some degree. Most of the women responders are taking on a perspective that has no positive help for him or any other bisexual man finding himself in this situation.

As Jamie has posted this issue comes up again and again. You are still relatively new here and do not know all the empty platitudes or worse screams and condemnation for men in this situation. A bisexual site should be able to do more than internet huggies. Focus on the real issue here. You are close enough in your understanding but go all postal to some degree.

Your last paragraph (post 27) above offering him some form of support is shallow imo. All huggy huggy statements that don't do f"ck all to help resolve the issue.

[Long Duck Dong]

and as usual, the rights of the woman do not matter, cos its about a bisexual male and his rights.......

the interesting thing I have noticed, is the same recurring pattern

bisexual males are hard done by, if they are not having extra marital sex

women are wrong unless they are in open relationships where bisexual males have freedom or giving permission

female bisexuals do not have the same issue as males want woman on woman sex and 3somes.......



its hilarious to think that there has been a lot of religion bashing in the site, when the ideals of relationships are being based around a aspect of marriage that is religion based and that is " the male is the head of the household, he has the final say and the word that will become law in his home "

just goes to show that we are not as distant from the religious groups as we may like to think as we often still follow the same doctrine that many religious groups abide by.......

the other hilarious thing is when we talk about equal rights and consideration of people, when one of the first things we do, is make the issue all about us and our sexual wants, needs and desires, in a marriage of TWO people.....and reduce the other person to a entity in the marriage that is standing in the path of our happiness.....

so much for the dual role of people in relationships and marriages with attitudes like that.... its no wonder that the rates of marriage around the world are dropping..... and its got a lot to do with the fact that compromising and considering BOTH people in a relationship / marriage is too bloody hard to do, when its easier to say * my rights make my actions right *

[DuckiesDarling]

To answer the question in the title. NO. Just because you are bi you are not cheating on your wife.

However, anything beyond what you and your partner agree will be cheating if you seek something outside of your relationship. Only you know your partner and only you will be the one who decides if your relationship is worth trying to talk to your partner and letting her know that it is her you love and that will never change. If she is unable to allow you to explore beyond your bonds of marriage than you need to make your choice. Your marriage or your desire for sex with men. In the end, it's your and your wife's choice, not anyone's choice on this board. Good luck.

[Katja]

"I sympathise very much with Tomdes plight, and wish his wife had a different view and a different moral attitude, but I doubt he would dream of accusing his wife of being a cheat for refusing him his wish. Some things to some people are much too important to surrender on such an important point as we are discussing here. "

The point is that I do not believe that you totally understand what is being discussed here for bisexual men who end up married to women who shut down like this.

He has discussed his sexuality with her. She has refused to be more open to resolving this conflict. It is not a conflict for her. Her life is unchanged and she demands that he put this foolish idea away. If he did physcially cheat, she would be seen as a victim rather than responsible to some degree. Most of the women responders are taking on a perspective that has no positive help for him or any other bisexual man finding himself in this situation.

As Jamie has posted this issue comes up again and again. You are still relatively new here and do not know all the empty platitudes or worse screams and condemnation for men in this situation. A bisexual site should be able to do more than internet huggies. Focus on the real issue here. You are close enough in your understanding but go all postal to some degree.

Your last paragraph (post 27) above offering him some form of support is shallow imo. All huggy huggy statements that don't do f"ck all to help resolve the issue.

I do not understand bisexual men who end up shutting down? Is it so very different from woman who has had a similar problem? That I dealt with it differently and in my own way, and much less honestly than has Tomdes is not the point. Dont talk such piffle. I believe I understand male bisexuality relatively well for it is not so very different from that of the female.

Because I have undergone the traumatic experience of a husband who would neither recognise my sexuality, or even my right to my sexuality, I understand this issue better than you think. Because of the chaos, recriminations and repercussions which ensued, my understanding is first hand.

But at no time have I ever blamed husband for his refusal to allow me to be myself, nor for his insistence that I stick to our marital arrangements. I could, and did have much to say about the hypocrisy in his stance, and most certainly for events in the aftermath of our separation and divorce, but those are for his conscience, but these are linked issues which are not directly pertinent to this case.

Don't tell me what I do and don't understand, Tenni. You may disagree with what I say but don't you dare dismiss it because of my gender.

[Katja]

and as usual, the rights of the woman do not matter, cos its about a bisexual male and his rights.......



LDD you and I have crossed swords more than once but this is exactly what some seem to think regarding this thread.

[Realist]

As I read these posts, I can see how my own failure to communicate my thoughts on this very subject, has lead me down many rocky roads. Early in life, I understood that many people reacted violently (emotionally and/or physically) to anything they did not, or would not, comprehend.

Even at an early age, I understood that I was different than most around me. So, I developed a dishonest method of living, a plural personality as it were, where I lived one way for my parents, family, and friends who had conservative, religious, and moral, issues with "deviates". However dishonest that was, I knew how they'd react and a split personality fit into a way to maintain peace.

Even today I live in and around the same environment as in my youth. I've returned, retired, and am much older than when I left (50 years, in fact) but little has changed.

Except for one thing........I no longer hide who I am and what I think, to anyone who may end up being in an intimate relationship with me. I still feel that those, who don't know that I'm bisexual, don't need to know. But I owe it to potential partners to tell them.

There are a lot of single people in Florida...... but, very few of them bisexual. I began meeting mostly women, but unlike most of my life, I told them, up front, that I was bisexual. That was the kiss of death, for every lady I met, until I joined this site.

It finally dawned on me that, if I was ever going to have a decent relationship with a lady, she should be tolerant of my bisexuality, or better yet, be bisexual herself.

I think I am now in the best relationship of my life, because I am with a lover of the same ilk. She understands me and I understand her. In addition, we are totally honest with each other and neither of us are jealous.

That is MY case, but many of you may not have been bisexual, when you developed relationships, married, or cohabited. And, your desires may have arisen afterwards. It should have been easier for me to be honest about myself, because I've known I was bisexual since before my first sexual encounter. But those of you who didn't know you would become interested in same-gender relationships, after heterosexual connections, have had a much more difficult time of it.

Each of us deal with these chapters in our lives in different ways. I respect and admire those of you, who were honest and open about yourself, once you realized that you had grown into another phase of your lives. Coming out to a loved one, especially if they're straight, takes a lot of fortitude!

We all struggle with our choices in life and some deal with it more effectively and rationally, than others. We all have our own paths to travel and hopefully, we will arrive at a good place before we're through.

Good luck to you all.

[flyer]

yes, agreed, adjustment and change.... but it appears to be that you are saying that unless the wife does things your way, she will be wrong......

if the wife is monogamous natured, then she will not cope with a open relationship.... pushing her to accept one, will not be in the best interests of either person and may well end up in divorce.....

....

No, I was referring mainly to the talking about it, accepting it etc - otherwise you are right. Where they go from here will depend on that.

Katja: as regards cheating, I mean it in the sense of cheating someone out of something (even oneself). In this case it would be cheating their relationship of a greater expression and understanding. (Otherwise you too are right!)

[Katja]

I do not understand bisexual men who end up shutting down?


Forgive this blatant error. What I intended to ask, and thought I had asked was a question about my understanding (or lack of it) bisexual men married to wives who shut down. I typed the words but somehow they got lost 'in transit'. My apologies.

The form of words should have read;

'I do not understand bisexual men married to wives who have shut down?'

The rest of my post stands with that amendment. My apologies.

[Long Duck Dong]

No, I was referring mainly to the talking about it, accepting it etc - otherwise you are right. Where they go from here will depend on that.

Katja: as regards cheating, I mean it in the sense of cheating someone out of something (even oneself). In this case it would be cheating their relationship of a greater expression and understanding. (Otherwise you too are right!)

I know what you mean.....

there is something that we often do not consider, and that is the fact that we would be changing thw wives perception of the husband....

he would no longer be the man she fell in love with and married, in her eyes, he would be a man that loves other men, enjoys sex with other men..... somebody that she may have not married, and it may well end up with her questioning the marriage and if the person that she married, is not the person talking to her now......

people are quick to call it bi phobic reactions, but its not, marriage for many is a big choice, they invest a lot of hopes, dreams and their future in a marriage and hope as many do, that it will stand the test of time and they will die in each others arms.......and that is something that happens in most marriages regardless of sexuality......

now tomdes wife is faced with the choice of seeing her husband in a different light and the impact on the marriage, or shutting out, what she may percieve as inreconciable differences in the marriage that may lead to a divorce......

coming out in a marriage as a bisexual is a hard path to walk, and each partner has feelings, thoughts and rights.... and that is something that has to be accepted and acknowledged by people in marriages.......

sadly that means that we can say that its the wives duty to listen to her husband and hear him out, but we also have to accept the fact that she may not want to remain in a marriage with him...and that is her right and choice.......

its something that goes both ways..... it can be a husband with a bisexual wife....and the same issues arise......

the trouble is that if the wife says no thank, I want a divorce, we will see the bi phobic remarks targeted at her cos she expressed her own personal viewpoint and feelings, not the feeling and viewpoint that some people in the thread feel that a non bisexual wife, should express.... and that is one of total acceptance and tolerance without having a opinion of her own

[JLane]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to this site and believe I am somewhat naive as to what it means to be bisexual and the wants and needs of a someone who is bisexual. I came on this site to have a better understanding of myself and my partner. I believe I am bi-curious but this has come about more recently since being with my current partner.

This threads topic started out with a member speaking of cheating on his wife if he had a sexual relationship with a man and it somewhat evolved, from what I can gather, into members discussing the needs of a bisexual person. My question stems from one member discussing the needs of a bisexual man.

So I guess my question is if you are a bisexual man in a committed relationship to a woman (married or not) do you also need a man in your life? The same question stands for bisexual woman in regards to being in a relationship with a man. Is one able to be only with the person they are committed to of the opposite sex (if that was agreed upon) without needing to fulfill other desires with the same sex? So I guess the bottom line is if one is bi do you need both sexes around at the same time?

I just want to say people cheat all the time...it is not dependent upon one's sexual orientation. I am very much aware of that.

[Long Duck Dong]

there is no simple answer, lol but yes and no... it depends on the person and the people involved.....

some people cope well with one person in their lives, others cope best with 2 or more in their lives.... then it breaks down to gender and sexuality....and then you have the people that need other people in their lives ( dual partners ) and the people that need contact with other people ( casual sex encounters )...then you have the people that are settled that can be monogamous and polyarmous, and the people that are *unsettled * and naturally * swingers *

and its no different for bisexuals... except at times, it can involve both genders.....

so each people will give you a different answer, based around their own needs, wants and desires......and they are all correct for that person, they just may not be correct for every other person.......

[ohbimale]

If you are going behind her back it is cheating.

If she knows and approves it is not cheating.

Talk with her and find out where she stands.

[Gearbox]

My views on Marriage are pretty dire to start off with, and this thread hasn't helped alleviate the distaste.:bigrin:

I have no idea why people don't see that being under a contract with somebody else concerning love/life as immoral in itself. It's geared to pamper insecurities and provide 'Laws' that enforce the idea that one has reigns over the one you love.

The sentiment of Marriage, of belonging to each other (and no other) and facing life through thick&thin is lovely. But people evolve! We grow up. We realise that THIS life is IT! We want/need to explore ourselves while we are here. Not surprisingly, the standard marriage contract forbids that when it involves sex & other people.:rolleyes:
It provides an excuse to nurture insecurities in relation to non monogamous activity. It upholds the practice of self denial.

IMO we'd be far healthier as a species if monogamy wasn't rammed down our throats as some kind of 'Morally correct' doctrine. It is not!
Same goes for heterosexuality!
Married people, upon realising that they have bisexual feelings isn't a casual whim! It's not just an urge to have 'dirty extramarital sex'!
It's a self realisation that rises up as something that needs to be explored as a part of that persons identity and life experience.
If you replace the 'Bisexuality' with 'Ballroom Dancing' there'd be no probs.:bigrin:
But due to our cultures being so retarded about sex and love, a big fuss is ok!:tongue:

Cheating on a contract is not the same as cheating somebody/self out of exploring this life! But they overlap when it suits.;)
(No I'm not married!)

[void()]

"So I guess my question is if you are a bisexual wo/man in a committed relationship to a wo/man (married or not) do you also need a wo/man in your life?"

It is nice to have both. Nice because there are times one wants same sex encounters, times one wants opposite sex encounters. That is part of what being bisexual is, there is also emotional / spiritual consideration/s.

But I concur with post #7. Bisexuality does not cause one to cheat. That is a matter of personal ir/responsibility. Communication is the key I find after eleven years of marriage, with roughly five having a boyfriend to boot.

Then again, I'm just some dumb fool. :)

[SxyStar]

I have had this same issue here recently but the other way around since I am a woman. My feelings to be with another woman have gotten worse. My husband has known I was bi since we met. I told him last night that my urges r getting worse. But I told him that he could watch or even be involved if he wanted 2. He is just now really getting use to the idea of me being sexually attracted to woman but I'm not going to push it onto him. He knows how I feel and what I want but I'm going to let him decide how he feels about it.

[matutum]

I love my wife and don't want to lose her, but my lifetime desire to have sex with guys is becoming impossible to ignore. If the opportunity presents itself and I go for it, will this be cheating? Is it that simple or more complex? I would welcome everyone's opinion!
Tom

U know the answer already.Talk to ur wife.If u get permission its ok.