Bisexual's and gays in Sci-fi/fantasy/horror

[crazy_cat_lady]

hey people

I was looking around teh interwebs and discovered a few lists of favorate LGBT characters in T.V., movies, books, games, etc. here's the links

http://www.afterellen.com/TV/2007/10/topscifimoments?page=1%2C0

http://www.afterelton.com/print/2008/1/tenbestscificharacters

however the lists I felt were lacking somewhat in that there are quite a few shows where there are character relationships steeped in almost obvious subtext or just blantant.

here are my selection that aren't on those lists.

Chiana from Farscape a little known sci-fi series (its actually down-right kinky) - basic summery she's a gray nympho woman who has quite a few Bisexual moments in the series.

Kirk/spock - now some of my fellow trekkies may disagree, but the sexual tension between these 2 characters is so thick its almost not subtext. even gene roddenberry hinted that the quote "affection between the 2 was certainly strong enough for such things to happen. And they were created to complete eachother" end quote. from the big man himself...if thats not proof what is?

Alice and May Cassini are the first homosexual married couple featured in a Doctor Who episode called Gridlock (they also had cat people which I liked)

and finally

7of9/Capt. Janeway - there was sooooo much subtext for this pairing it was practicly screaming it from the hills!


Ok so that my first list at least...now here your question...can you think of any other bi or gay subtext or open characters from any of those 3 genras? books tv movies anything...

[myschyfnmayhem]

I LOVE Chiana!!

[Annika L]

Kirk/spock - now some of my fellow trekkies may disagree, but the sexual tension between these 2 characters is so thick its almost not subtext. even gene roddenberry hinted that the quote "affection between the 2 was certainly strong enough for such things to happen. And they were created to complete eachother" end quote. from the big man himself...if thats not proof what is?

You would leave McCoy out of that relationship? Please!! With all the romantic bickering and sidelong glances amongst the three of them, it was always pretty clear to me what was going on behind the scenes.

[Hephaestion]

Nah - not Kirk and Spock and certainly not McCoy.

Under the old rules of Vampirism (Chrstopher Lee) the affliction was transferred by a bite or 'copulation' yet none of the men walked with a limp after their encounter

[Pasadenacpl2]

I don't appreciate it much when people take characters and turn them gay/bi. Yeah, you might want Kirk/Spock to be in a bi relationship, but it just isn't so. Frankly, if I were the writer/creator, I'd be a tad insulted.

Pasa

[Gearbox]

7of9 & Cpt Janeway? That was a mother/daughter bond surely?
We all know that Janeway had the hots for Chikote, and 7of9 was in love with Lycra. Well it was up the crack of her ass 24/7, so no shock there!:rolleyes:

How about James Bond?
Come on! All those powerful deadly women and over the top macho crap? He was dying to be dommed by a bloke, the dirty bitch! Look at his impeccable suits for the love of God!:bigrin:

[Annika L]

I don't appreciate it much when people take characters and turn them gay/bi. Yeah, you might want Kirk/Spock to be in a bi relationship, but it just isn't so. Frankly, if I were the writer/creator, I'd be a tad insulted.

Pasa

You insisting that it just isn't so is every bit as silly as me insisting that it is indeed so. The writer/creator didn't include *any* explicit sexual scenes of any sort...but you know damned well Kirk wasn't celibate during the run of the series. There is every bit as much reason to think he was bi than that he was straight. I'll choose my reality; you choose yours if you can.

To be insulted by our suggesting someone is bi is to consider being bi an insult...and I find that insulting. Oh well.

[Pasadenacpl2]

That is not true.

To insist that someone who is bi is actually gay is insulting.
To insist that someone who is bi is actually straight is insulting.
I'm sure that you can continue this line of logic without me haging to write out every possible combination.

To insist that a character who had dozens of flings with women and not one with a guy is bi is pretty insulting. I have always found this to be the case, people in the LGBT community insisting that this or that chatacter is gay, when nothing of the sort is true. They WANT the character to be gay (for a variety of reasons), but they are projecting their own desires onto someone else's creative product.

Pasa

[drugstore cowboy]

That is not true.

To insist that someone who is bi is actually gay is insulting.
To insist that someone who is bi is actually straight is insulting.
I'm sure that you can continue this line of logic without me haging to write out every possible combination.

To insist that a character who had dozens of flings with women and not one with a guy is bi is pretty insulting. I have always found this to be the case, people in the LGBT community insisting that this or that chatacter is gay, when nothing of the sort is true. They WANT the character to be gay (for a variety of reasons), but they are projecting their own desires onto someone else's creative product.

Pasa

They're completely fictional characters.

I read the blogs Alien: Resurrection sucked compared to the other Aliens movies.

It is laughable that Ripley is bisexual or lesbian towards Winona Ryder's character in that bomb of a movie, but if someone wants to claim this or even write a fictional story about these characters or claim that they're bisexual or lesbian I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

The creators of these movies and TV shows are not necessarily insulted when people claim that their characters are bisexual, gay, lesbian, or not heterosexual at all.

People claiming that Kirk and Spock are bisexual or gay is nothing new.

I saw a youtube video that used to be around where someone pieced together old original Star Trek clips and made it look like Kirk and Spock were coming onto each other. I've also seen drawings and fictional stories people wrote about the two fictional Star Trek characters having sex together.

I'm sure Gene Roddenberry would just be amused by this, not insulted. He probably had seen some of the fictional stories and porn based on his characters.

[ErosUrge]

Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein was a book that further supported my feelings about bisexuality after reading it. At the time I read this book I was already very much into David Bowie and his music and his announcements that he was bi. Supposedly around 1973 or so, there was talk about making the book into a movie with Bowie playing the main character; a Martian by the name of Valentine Michael Smith....it did not come to pass and 3 years later, Bowie was the main character in The Man Who Fell to Earth; another extraterrestrial character...

Stranger in a Strange Land is a wonderful book and I highly encourage it to be read by anyone who is bi.

[67torinouy]

yeah geeze. Janeway and 7 or 9 couldn't be a more mother and daughter realationship unless they were really related. And Kirk and Spock, wtf? Because two people are willing to take a bullet for each other doesn't mean their going to go down on each other. If you want an obvious lesbian it would be Peppermint Patty from Peanuts

[Pasadenacpl2]

Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein was a book that further supported my feelings about bisexuality after reading it. At the time I read this book I was already very much into David Bowie and his music and his announcements that he was bi. Supposedly around 1973 or so, there was talk about making the book into a movie with Bowie playing the main character; a Martian by the name of Valentine Michael Smith....it did not come to pass and 3 years later, Bowie was the main character in The Man Who Fell to Earth; another extraterrestrial character...

Stranger in a Strange Land is a wonderful book and I highly encourage it to be read by anyone who is bi.


SiaSL is a great novel that has tons of bisexual undertones. It is not only a treatise on sexuality, but on the ideal that poly seeks (to be able to love more than one person completely). I have every lover read it so that they can better understand my thoughts on the matter (Heinlein shows it better than I can say it).

Pasa

[ErosUrge]

SiaSL is a great novel that has tons of bisexual undertones. It is not only a treatise on sexuality, but on the ideal that poly seeks (to be able to love more than one person completely). I have every lover read it so that they can better understand my thoughts on the matter (Heinlein shows it better than I can say it).

Pasa

Yes; I forgot to mention the poly aspect of the novel. Because of that being so much a part of the book, I decided I was going to live the same with my small group of friends who were always open and interested in what I had to say about many matters at the time. Responding to what I had to say was one thing but responding to what I wanted to do would prove to be more challenging for all of us. We were all very young; late teens, early twenties. Anyhow, when I approached those friends with my new found 'lightness of being' explaining to them as much as I could about the story and with such sincerity about it all, they did indeed try to reciprocate...however it did confuse everyone in the long run as it was more than they could handle. Only one of them had taken the time to read the book and he understood it all very well. He was the exception. But because of the others fears, I felt that somehow I had failed. Truth is at that time (1974), it was more than many people could handle and more especially in this area we all resided. Even though attitudes are more open now, generally the kind of situations in the novel are more than what people can handle today too....I think that if everyone who is bi were to read this book, it would have an impact on the majority of the readers...then, maybe not.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I agree. I reccomend it for all people to read. It is an enlightening novel. I am attempting to put many of the ideas from the novel into place in my own life. Hopefully 2011 is a better time than 1974.

Pasa

[drugstore cowboy]

If you want an obvious lesbian it would be Peppermint Patty from Peanuts

LMAO!

[Hephaestion]

There's a small sketch on Family Guy where Peter goes and visits his ex-girlfriends, Peppermint Patty being one of them. She answers the door, and Marcie is close by, After asking, "Who is it, sir?", she puts her arms around Patty and gives her a kiss on the cheek.

If Seth MacFarlane says so then it is so

[Annika L]

That is not true.

To insist that someone who is bi is actually gay is insulting.
To insist that someone who is bi is actually straight is insulting.
I'm sure that you can continue this line of logic without me haging to write out every possible combination.

To insist that a character who had dozens of flings with women and not one with a guy is bi is pretty insulting. I have always found this to be the case, people in the LGBT community insisting that this or that chatacter is gay, when nothing of the sort is true. They WANT the character to be gay (for a variety of reasons), but they are projecting their own desires onto someone else's creative product.

Pasa

If I knew he was straight, and insisted he was bi, that wouldn't be insulting...it would just be stupid.

Neither you nor I can know what Kirk's true sexuality was/is/will be...because as has been mentioned and as *should* be obvious, he's a fictional character. You have not seen his whole life, you do not know his inner life. Neither have I. I agree that based on the evidence it would be fairly ridiculous to claim that he is gay (though y'know, they didn't actually show the man having sex with *anyone*...for all you *know* he could have been celibate since his son's conception; just a big flirt). Bi, on the other hand, is completely plausible. To me, the evidence is sufficient and compelling so that I find it at least equally likely. (No, they didn't *show* him directly with men...but it was the friggin 60's, for cripes sakes...they couldn't have if they wanted to.)

As with some other things, we can disagree. If you can't let it go at that, then you might ask yourself why it's so important to you that he be straight.

[silberwolf1960]

Captain Jack Harkness played by John Barrowman. Love his character and he is a damn sexy man. In one episode of The new Torchwood his love scene with the beertender of the Gopher Hole club was awesome. Also he is gay in real life.
I would so love to have just one night with him.
YUMMY!!!!!!!!!!

[Nadir]

Let´s see, I see no need for us to argue about the sexuality of fictional characters. I have been writing fanfiction since I was fifteen years old, and have been heavily involved in the Internet´s fandom community. One of the things that I have learnt in these years is that "slash/yaoi" (parings among male characters who are officialy heterosexual) and "femlash/yuri" (parings among female characters who are officialy heterosexual) are very common when writing fanfiction. People just want to see realized, in a way, their favorite pairings related to a certain TV show, book or film.

Officially, however, Kirk and Spock are not a couple, unless it is on the mind and the writings of a couple hundred thousand fangirls and fanboys who are fawning on them. However, to consider that someone would think Kirk and Spock being gay or bisexual as insulting as an insult to the writers is foolish. Mostly because people have been writing fanfictions about a relationship between those two since the 1970s, and so far, nobody has ever raised a complaint (or, if they have, I have not heard about it).

If I would have to pick a scene it would be the kiss (just a rather quick peck on the lips, but for me it was enough) between Jack, Rose and the Ninth Doctor (Christopher Eccleston) on the finale of the first season of the revived series "Doctor Who". Jack Harkness (mentioned in the previous post by silverwolf1960) is a time-travelling conman and associate to the Doctor. They are stuck hundreds of years in the future on a space station. The Daleks (the Doctor´s mortal enemy) are closing in, intending to massacre everyone on the station and on Earth. Then, as Jack is marching off to fight, he kisses Rose (the Doctor´s friend) full on the lips (she is rather surprised by this), and then he kisses the Doctor too (this being the first same-sex kiss on all the history of the show, which has been on air from the 1960s). I know my teenage nephew likes Doctor Who, I would have to ask him if he saw that particular scene. Would love to watch his reaction... :P He already saw a commercial for "Queer As Folk" when he was seven years old, his mother told me he was left with his jaw hanging for around half an hour... kids this days.

[hgf33]

How about James Bond?
Come on! All those powerful deadly women and over the top macho crap? He was dying to be dommed by a bloke, the dirty bitch! Look at his impeccable suits for the love of God!:bigrin:

LMAO!!!! That's hilarious! I love reading your posts Gearbox. Always good for laughs! :tong:

[jonbi_friends]

I still have not read Stranger in a Strange Land, but for some reason it always reminds me of Robert Silverberg's Son of Man. It's quite a psychedelic novel, very much of its time but well worth a read for anyone that appreciates pretty far reaching SciFi, with post human elements that border on trans gender views, etc. Quite an interesting read for me when I was a young bisexual, exploring new ideas and trying to understand human sexuality. For those that may know it, it has elements of Urotsukidoji (but without the misogyny), with sexual energy being used to power things in nearly a kind of mystical way. It was a strange, very arousing (in more ways than one) read.

There are a couple of characters in JMS's Babylon 5 which are subtly but fairly obviously bisexual. While it's a pretty progressive show in many regards, I was pleasantly surprised to find. Great show anyway, it's not just a poor version of Star Trek as I originally thought, and has a four year story arc which is fairly unique for US TV, at least it was at the time.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

In one episode of The new Torchwood his love scene with the beertender of the Gopher Hole club was awesome.

Whoa! There's more Torchwood!?? Where?? I Loved that series. Leaked tears when his lover got killed in Children of Earth...:( Would love to find more after he left Earth....And I have to Wholeheartedly agree, he (Barrowman) is a sexy beast..Nom nom nom.lol:bigrin:
Cat

[drugstore cowboy]

Yes; I forgot to mention the poly aspect of the novel. Because of that being so much a part of the book, I decided I was going to live the same with my small group of friends who were always open and interested in what I had to say about many matters at the time. Responding to what I had to say was one thing but responding to what I wanted to do would prove to be more challenging for all of us. We were all very young; late teens, early twenties. Anyhow, when I approached those friends with my new found 'lightness of being' explaining to them as much as I could about the story and with such sincerity about it all, they did indeed try to reciprocate...however it did confuse everyone in the long run as it was more than they could handle. Only one of them had taken the time to read the book and he understood it all very well. He was the exception. But because of the others fears, I felt that somehow I had failed. Truth is at that time (1974), it was more than many people could handle and more especially in this area we all resided. Even though attitudes are more open now, generally the kind of situations in the novel are more than what people can handle today too....I think that if everyone who is bi were to read this book, it would have an impact on the majority of the readers...then, maybe not.


SiaSL is a great novel that has tons of bisexual undertones. It is not only a treatise on sexuality, but on the ideal that poly seeks (to be able to love more than one person completely). I have every lover read it so that they can better understand my thoughts on the matter (Heinlein shows it better than I can say it).

I agree. I reccomend it for all people to read. It is an enlightening novel. I am attempting to put many of the ideas from the novel into place in my own life. Hopefully 2011 is a better time than 1974.

Pasa

Damn why do you force your "lovers" to read overrated shitty fluffy SF by Heinlein?

What a drag that must be to be your "lover" and be forced to read such tripe.

LOL @the comments and pointless hopes about what's now called "poly" working today in 2011.

I was around during the sexual revolution and came out and was sexually active then and in lots of relationships with men and women.

Group "marriages" and all that stuff didn't work then during the sexual revolution in the early 70s through the very early 80s before HIV/AIDS and they're not going to work now in 2011.

Of all the group marriages I saw decades ago where people swore to be together forever no matter what, where people were handfasted in silly dogmatic cultish/religious rituals based on archaic and silly myths that didn't help or do anything, and all of the people I've met got into group "marriages" or "relationships" none of them have survived or lasted decades later and they all broke down very fast as they're apt to do and eventually will no matter the gender(s) and sexual orientation(s) of the people involved.

Negotiated open relationships where one or both people have love and romance with each other and just fuck around on the side with other people at times either together or separate, those can work at times.

[IllinoisGuy]

In one episode of The new Torchwood his love scene with the beertender of the Gopher Hole club was awesome.

Whoa! There's more Torchwood!?? Where?? I Loved that series. Leaked tears when his lover got killed in Children of Earth...:( Would love to find more after he left Earth....And I have to Wholeheartedly agree, he (Barrowman) is a sexy beast..Nom nom nom.lol:bigrin:
Cat

I just saw this thread now. It's on Starz(via cable/satellite) on Friday nights. There are 10 episodes in this season and tonight was episode 8. If you have Starz and have the ability to see it on demand, I recommend it. You will like it.

[elian]

7of9 & Cpt Janeway? That was a mother/daughter bond surely?
We all know that Janeway had the hots for Chikote, and 7of9 was in love with Lycra. Well it was up the crack of her ass 24/7, so no shock there!:rolleyes:

How about James Bond?
Come on! All those powerful deadly women and over the top macho crap? He was dying to be dommed by a bloke, the dirty bitch! Look at his impeccable suits for the love of God!:bigrin:

Gear honey, Jerri Ryan specifically said how much she hated the fact that producers made her wear spandex (but wasn't it lovely, for characters of either sex).

I just about fell off my chair laughing because in the movie "Dracula 2000" Jerri Ryan plays a news reporter, she is standing in the middle of a swamp with a cameraman staring into the camera and says "Are you SURE you're getting my TITS!!?", as she pushes them up. I just about ROTFL.. She seems like she would be a wonderful person to talk to at a party.

Having a CRUSH on a character doesn't necessarily make them gay, for example I should probably be ashamed to admit this but I was about his age when Next Generation was on and I had the biggest crush on Wil Wheaton.. <bangs head into desk>

The old "Friday the 13th" series had a lot of vampiric overtones, and we all know that the big draw for that sort of literature was eroticism. I'm now hooked on "Being Human". I also found Kyle XY, which I really liked but for some reason when they introduced a female character it was kind of a let down - maybe I had a crush on that one too. Having found the series late I have to click through the horrendous ABC Family website to watch online.

I think they talked a lot about creating an explicitly gay character for Star Trek but for some reason it never happened (networks?) I mean, they've covered every OTHER controversial topic.. They did do that one STNG episode about a "gender neutral" person who later found out that she had a gender..that was as close to discussing LGBT discrimination as they got and I think they did a decent job.

One of my favorite series is actually Firefly, it differs from Star Trek in that it's not as sterile, the characters get dirty. At first the pilot episode was slow and I didn't think I would like it - "What's this 'Wild West' Spaceflight?" but it was actually a really good series. They had more than one overtly lesbian scene.

http://www.hulu.com/firefly

[ErosUrge]

Damn why do you force your "lovers" to read overrated shitty fluffy SF by Heinlein?

What a drag that must be to be your "lover" and be forced to read such tripe.

LOL @the comments and pointless hopes about what's now called "poly" working today in 2011.

I was around during the sexual revolution and came out and was sexually active then and in lots of relationships with men and women.

Group "marriages" and all that stuff didn't work then during the sexual revolution in the early 70s through the very early 80s before HIV/AIDS and they're not going to work now in 2011.

Of all the group marriages I saw decades ago where people swore to be together forever no matter what, where people were handfasted in silly dogmatic cultish/religious rituals based on archaic and silly myths that didn't help or do anything, and all of the people I've met got into group "marriages" or "relationships" none of them have survived or lasted decades later and they all broke down very fast as they're apt to do and eventually will no matter the gender(s) and sexual orientation(s) of the people involved.

Negotiated open relationships where one or both people have love and romance with each other and just fuck around on the side with other people at times either together or separate, those can work at times.

I agree and disagree with your comments. Not anyone's experiences can dictate how everyone is or perceives. I certainly would not ever 'force' anyone to read something in order to understand how I feel; how ridiculous. And I don't think Pasadenacpl2 was saying that either though I can see how it could be interpreted that way.
I too lived during the 'sexual revolution' of the 60's and 70's and I agree with you that it is doubtful that groups can exist for very long trying to adopt the polyamory way of living...it is indeed difficult whether now or 40 years ago. But that doesn't mean that it is impossible. Though I would like to be able to live this way, I know I am incapable; it's just how I am. And I agree that negotiated open relationships as you describe can be more successful. In fact, I know of several couples where that is the case. In many of my posts I have already talked about them; one of them has been together for 34 years and the other 23 and both are very content with the arrangement. And I know of several others who have been together 10 plus years living this way.....
As far as calling Stranger in a Strange Land fluff, well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But it is just that as is mine proclaiming how wonderful it is. No one person can dictate for all of us; you or me, and proposing to do so tells us a lot about who we are. I certainly have never intended that everyone should live as the book talks about but that doesn't mean that there is no validity in what the novel portrays.
But you're probably right because generally people DON'T live this way and to appeal to something that challenges what has been the same for centuries is more than likely a real pipe dream. But it also doesn't mean that people can't at least try....

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Damn why do you force your "lovers" to read overrated shitty fluffy SF by Heinlein?

What a drag that must be to be your "lover" and be forced to read such tripe.

LOL @the comments and pointless hopes about what's now called "poly" working today in 2011.

I was around during the sexual revolution and came out and was sexually active then and in lots of relationships with men and women.

Group "marriages" and all that stuff didn't work then during the sexual revolution in the early 70s through the very early 80s before HIV/AIDS and they're not going to work now in 2011.

Of all the group marriages I saw decades ago where people swore to be together forever no matter what, where people were handfasted in silly dogmatic cultish/religious rituals based on archaic and silly myths that didn't help or do anything, and all of the people I've met got into group "marriages" or "relationships" none of them have survived or lasted decades later and they all broke down very fast as they're apt to do and eventually will no matter the gender(s) and sexual orientation(s) of the people involved.

Negotiated open relationships where one or both people have love and romance with each other and just fuck around on the side with other people at times either together or separate, those can work at times.


Wow. Bitter much, Cowboy? What a person relates to, or does, in their real life is their personal preference. Have a cookie, relax, untighten that spyncter muscle a little. The post was abour Movie people fer Pete's sakes. Chill.
Cat

[Gearbox]

Gear honey, Jerri Ryan specifically said how much she hated the fact that producers made her wear spandex (but wasn't it lovely, for characters of either sex).
It was very lovely!:tong: Must have cost them a fortune editing out all the extreme camel hoof shots though.:bigrin:
I saw that film with her as a reporter. She's stunning, and most prob a hit at parties too.;)

I can't believe I never thought of the American show 'Incubus'!:eek: The lead lady was a RAVING bisexual in it. (don't know her name.). She's nice too though!

[mnTIMIDguy]

Silly answer: (at the risk of offending anyone gay) Lost In Space: Dr. Zachary Smith! cmon!

Serious answer: Star Trek Next Gen had an episode called "The Outcast" where Riker becomes enamored with a visitor from an androgynous race. As I recall, the visitor is given a hard time by his/her(?) people for her behavior. Some things are the same no matter where you are in the galaxy.