the end of terrorism

[bigbadmax]

With the death of Osama bin Laden, is anyone fooled into thinking anything has changed?

[DuckiesDarling]

Actually, Max, a lot has changed. The death of Osama Bin Laden ends a chapter in our War on Terrorism. It doesn't end the whole thing. But Bin Laden has long been the focal point for Al Qaeda and a rallying symbol. America fulfilled it's promise to Bin Laden, we got him. Took awhile but we got him. Do I sleep safer tonight because of it? Yes and no, do I worry about reprisals? Yes and no. Mixed answers because Bin Laden was the brains behind Al Qaeda but martyrs are not something you want to make. With a lot of luck the infrastructure of Al Qaeda will crumble and they will no longer be able to plan and carry out terroristic acts on a global scale.

But as Obama said tonight, America has never been at war against Islam, but against terror. Bin Laden killed just as many Muslims as he did "infidels" and got more honor with the burial at sea than he deserved.

[bigbadmax]

Typical American knee jerk response.

The USA had no security prior to 9/11. Now you have gone over the top with power crazy security and a weak yet plausible excuse to your own administration to form the world in your image..If the leader dont fit oust em using civil unrest.

If a terrorist dies, plenty more will take their place.

[DuckiesDarling]

Well pardon me, didn't realize this was yet another bash America thread, carryon on with your delusions, well at least you don't refer to military as terrorists.......

[bigbadmax]

DD

I am ex millitary, I have dealt with EVERY aspect of terrorism bar being one.

Get off your high horse and drop the gung ho attitude or are you in a good mood again and making a joke?

We dont celebrate terrorism in this country. Why should you?

Just for info, Im married to an American.

[DuckiesDarling]

For the record, I am not making a joke. I, like many Americans, welcome the news of the death of Osama Bin Laden and the keeping of an American promise that he would be gotten, no matter how long he hid or how far he ran. That promise didn't start with Obama but he was in office when the information came to us about exactly where Bin Laden was and as Commander in Chief he ordered the mission to deal with a terrorist leader. I don't appear to be on high horse, Max, you do. You start this thread asking for opinions, I watched the teleconference with Obama at 11:pmish my time last night, my reaction was American yes, but not typical American and damned sure not a knee jerk reaction.

[bigbadmax]

So Obama was the only one who fights terrorism, funny how results fall into place so soon after anouncing he will stand again.

Not typical DD, just about sums you up on this site.

[maxtor]

this is by no means the end of terrorism. terrorism will esclate if anything. this was just a revenge killing for 9/11. there was a promise made and kept by the US. he was just a cog in a large wheel at this point in time. he was irrevelent in that large wheel in this todays terrorism war. i am glad he paid for his actions and intentions. all the terrorist are proud to be martyr and die for their actions but Bin Laden was afraid and was a coward and fought to the last.

[Pasadenacpl2]

There was nothing knee jerk about DDs response. It was actually pretty even handed and balanced. I went back and read it, and your reaction to it, Max. Of the two of you, you were the on being a tad irrational.

As to the original question, no. Nothing has change other than that one objective among many will have been met. There is still work to be done.

Pasa

[littlerayofsunshine]

I must say I'm not ecstatic to have him in the worlds food chain now :banghead:I'm curious as to how a burial at sea is done. I hope its encased in something. *shutters*

[jimdawg]

DD

I am ex millitary, I have dealt with EVERY aspect of terrorism bar being one.

Get off your high horse and drop the gung ho attitude or are you in a good mood again and making a joke?

We dont celebrate terrorism in this country. Why should you?

Just for info, Im married to an American.

Get off your high horse? My god, some guy was killed that was responsible for AN INVASION OF A COUNTRY. Even though it doesn't reduce the threat of terrorism, IT MEANS THAT AT LEAST WE FEEL SOMEWHAT RELIEVED.

And I'm glad you're married to an American. Did you know most outspoken member of Hungary's neo-Nazis (Jobbik...she's actually independent) was married to someone "ethnically" Jewish? Does that mean you somehow hate Americans less because you like "the good ones?"

And then you're getting mad when you wonder why Americans get mad at you for saying that we're barbarians? Guess what: Every American intrusion into the Middle East was supported by the UK, but not every UK intrusion was supported by America-not by a long shot. Put that in your pipe and smoke it before you blame us for the world's evils.

[Darkside2009]

Congratulations! Job well done. One less terrorist in the World can only be a good thing. Will it stop terrorism completely? Unlikely. Will it make a few think twice before getting involved? I'm pretty sure it will, if we hunt them down, no matter where they hide, no matter how long it takes. In evading justice, they have to be lucky every time, we only have to be lucky once, as BL found to his cost.

Does Pakistan have questions to answer? Most assuredly, given where he was found and the nature of his accommodation.

No tears for terrorists here, just a pity he wasn't caught sooner, other lives might have been spared.

[tenni]

I think that it is good that Bin Laden was caught but unfortunately was killed rather that brought to trial. I suppose that it was near impossible to catch him alive. I do wonder why it took so long. I definitely do not believe that with the death of Bin Laden that it will end terrorism in the world.

Obama made a couple of statements in his speech that I thought were both good or a bit of a concern. I liked that he emphasized that the US was not against or at war with Muslims.

I do not remember Obama's exact words but he made a statement that made me have some concern that the US government still perceives itself as an innocent victim and always will. The people who died were the innocent victims imo. The country that was attacked continued its own actions that killed tens of thousands of innocent people. It was attacked by an extremist who held beliefs that the US government had done grave injustices in the past. It has but Bin Laden's approach was very wrong imo. The views of some US people see this while others continue as Max has stated. They just do not understand how their words are read and interpreted. However, the acts terrorism were wrong.

Terrorism existed before 911 and it was being done by many groups and sadly it will continue. Canada had its own acts of terrorism long before 911 both from the FLQ and the blowing up of Air India flight 182 years before 911. Hundreds of Indo Canadians died and the guilty have never really been dealt with properly. Canada was ill prepared to deal with the Air India bombing by Sik extremists. Now, because we went to Afghanistan to support the UN and US, we are threatened more than ever. Our government has brought us closer a major act of terrorism on our own soil again soon.

I think that terrorism has become worse but maybe it is just because attempts to protect a society has spread across the globe and we are all more aware of the threat. Al Qaeda ? I suspect that it will continue in some form or other. If anything, I suspect that it is much uglier and deeper and more widely spread. I know that young Muslims born in Canada have disappeared. It is suspected that they have joined groups that some say are organized to do acts of terrorism. It is reported that they are being trained in some other country. There was a group of young men (Muslim) who were being trained in Ontario to attack our Parliament while in session and kill the PM plus other targets. The adult male was part of a group meeting in a Mosque where the Iman is suppose to have preached extremist views. The parents of these young men (as young as 15 or 16 I think) were shocked..supposedly.

I have heard that it is not just Canada where young Muslim men have been brainwashed and developing hatred towards others...not sure who they hate. I think that it is being suggested that it is all who are not adherents of extremist Islam. In this respect, it seems that terrorism will only increase and has tentacles deep in Canada, Britain, US and I don't know how many other countries. Killing Bin Laden has not reduced the threat. The threat of terrorist acts on anyone is much, much greater.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182

[Realist]

I'm afraid the despots will always be with us!

Ben Laden, Caligula, Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein...I could fill the page.

No, someone is always in line when they're gone, ready and willing to take their places!

[softfruit]

It won't make any difference. Terrorism didn't start with Osama, there have always been people who will seek to get their way through bullying and aggression.

[bigbadmax]

I am not blaming the USA for the worlds evil. I too support the fact that there is one down, many to go.

Minor victories should be celebrated in every war yet complete victories should only be celebrated when the war is over.

The post you missed entirely states that security only became an issue post 9/11.
The USA were more than happy to supply weapons to Saddam and funds to the IRA.


The UK have made mistakes as do all govts.

I have never heard of Americans being barbarians...new one on me.


I am not aware of Bin Laden ever invading any country,terrorism yes, invasion nope.


Get off your high horse? My god, some guy was killed that was responsible for AN INVASION OF A COUNTRY. Even though it doesn't reduce the threat of terrorism, IT MEANS THAT AT LEAST WE FEEL SOMEWHAT RELIEVED.

And I'm glad you're married to an American. Did you know most outspoken member of Hungary's neo-Nazis (Jobbik...she's actually independent) was married to someone "ethnically" Jewish? Does that mean you somehow hate Americans less because you like "the good ones?"

And then you're getting mad when you wonder why Americans get mad at you for saying that we're barbarians? Guess what: Every American intrusion into the Middle East was supported by the UK, but not every UK intrusion was supported by America-not by a long shot. Put that in your pipe and smoke it before you blame us for the world's evils.

[Bluebiyou]

With the death of Osama bin Laden, is anyone fooled into thinking anything has changed?

Fooled into thinking, no.
Changed, yes.
With the death of Osama, invasion of outside countries will be less justified and much more difficult (except perhaps Iran).
Anti terrorist reaction from 911 shall subside a bit more towards center.


For a horrid yet eerily close portrayal, nay prediction of today's terrorist centric society, watch Terry Gilliam's "Brazil". It portrays a clearly codependent relationship between terrorism (even fabricated) and society government.

[Katja]

I don't know whether Bin Laden was the brains behind Al Qaeda or not. Founder, inspiration and the figure head to hold it together is probably closer to the mark. Like Tenni I wish he had been brought to trial rather than killed, but it was always going to be an extremely difficult thing to achieve. Obtaining the evidence that it was Al Quaeda and Bin Laden responsible for 9/11 was never going to be easy. Any trial would be claimed as a show trial by his supporters and any guilty verdict and punishment would have made Bin Laden no less of a martyr than has resulted from his death. This may have been built in to American calculations when deciding what to do when tyhey caught up with him.

Al Qaeda, or organisations allied to it and sympathetic to the Bin Laden cause will continue. It is a many headed hydra and there are many leaders, many very clever brains and many people willing to risk their lives or even deliberately sacrifice them for the cause which Al Qaeda eshcews. There may be a small pause in its activities, but only to take stock and plan its way forward, and before long it is likely to carry out revenge attacks on a greater scale than has occurred of late. If anything western security services need to up their security rating and I have no doubt this they are doing.

If I may pick up on something Max said about the US trying to create a world in its own image. There is no doubt that the US has been responsible for attempting to do just that, but American power is on the wane and it is now getting close to overstretch. Waiting in the wings is another superpower all too ready and willing to take its place. The dragon is preparing to succeed the eagle, and whatever we may think personally about the United States, I for one am unable to say it is a development I savour with relish.

Max, may I also contradict the statement you made regarding the USA happily providing weapons to the IRA. I don't believe there is any evidence of this in respect of any US government supply of arms, but there is of many US citizens contributing money to Irish republican groups who were overtly or covertly IRA fronts and such collections being diverted to buy weapons.

[bigbadmax]

Brazil- too true
maybe add equilibrium to that as well.



Fooled into thinking, no.
Changed, yes.
With the death of Osama, invasion of outside countries will be less justified and much more difficult (except perhaps Iran).
Anti terrorist reaction from 911 shall subside a bit more towards center.


For a horrid yet eerily close portrayal, nay prediction of today's terrorist centric society, watch Terry Gilliam's "Brazil". It portrays a clearly codependent relationship between terrorism (even fabricated) and society government.

[bullhead69]

I for one am happy that the brain that was behind the attacks on 9/11 is no longer with us. In fact i celebrate that fact. However, I am not blind to the fact that terrorism dead. I do think there will be reprisals. But the way Max sounds we shouldn't have even tried to get the guy. Maybe if Great Britain had a pair of 110 story building destroyed, part of a huge military complex destroyed, and around 3000 souls murdered He would have a different view.
People seem to forget the past or have never studied it. I know that there are a lot of folks out there that think we Americans are arrogant and maybe we are. Just ask yourself this, where would you be if it weren't for those arrogant bastards. i.e. WW11

[bigbadmax]

Bull,

you conveniently forget the bombing campaigns from the IRA, the innocent range of unborn child up to grand parents. Military personnel, horses, police and others.


In regards to world war 2, check yr facts on why u got involved.
The US didnt see it as their war until forced into action..,sounds like post 9/11 again.

[tenni]

bullhead's comments take us to the land of wtf borderline extremist jingoism. It might be better not to continue on that path as it is counter productive to this thread imo. What US people need to understand is that terrorism has killed many more than 3 000 people in the world. 911 was shocking and horrific but not the first and only act of terrorism on this planet. Work together rather than "our horrorible tragedy is bigger". Even for US posters to acknowledge that within the 3 000, 911 victims, there were citizens of other countries and even Muslim's killed would be considerate and an attempt to discuss the horrible consequences of terrorism collectively.

[bigbadmax]

Could not have said it better tenni.

[12voltman59]

I don't think it will be a quick end to terrorism--but think of the events that have transpired in the mid-east in recent months--popular uprisings seeking to get rid of a number of tin pot despotic rulers with the people clamoring for more economic, political and social freedoms--it hardly seems that the people of the mid-east want to go back to some feudalistic, medieval "Sharia" types of law and such--they want to be able to get decent jobs, buy homes and fill them with wide-screen HD TVs with satellite programming, be able to buy nice modern clothing---especially for the women and of course women being educated, holding jobs and such!! Hardly a turn back to the 14th century---more like they want to become as up to date and as 21st century as possible.

I was watching one reporter on one of our American networks--he was already in the area that Bin Laden's compound was located and he said that in talking to the people around there--they are very glad that Bin Laden is dead too----saying that they want to see their government go more towards democracy and freedom--rejecting all the groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban represent.

It could be that history will show---the existence of a Bin Laden and the evil he fostered were just sort of a "boiling over of the pot" that released some pressures in the societies in that part of the world that instead of leading to "bad" things---actually in the end--helped lead that part of the world to a new way of being--that it sees the end of the strong man sort of leadership, the economies held in the hands of the few---with all of that going away and as a result---it brings new freedoms of all sorts to "the people" of those places--along with new economic development that actually helps those people. It would be deliciously ironic that instead of a very narrow and nasty world that Bin Laden sought to impose--it leads to a dramatic opening up of the Arab world to "modernism" with more true freedoms coming to the people which would be not only good for this part of the world--make it better for us all!!

This might be idealist and naive--but cannot we dream of such things??????? It would be great to have a silver lining in the dark clouds that Osama Bin Laden and the movements he spawned represented.

I think its a good day!!!!

As far as putting Bin Laden on trial is concerned--I say--I am glad that they put a round in his head---from one aspect--it might have been good that he stand trial--in the US District Court of Manhattan--standing accused of the murder of many thousands of US citizens and those visiting our country, among his many other crimes----but then again---a trial would have only served as a lightening rod for those who believe in the sort of evil that Bin Laden represents---I think that in another way--with all the horrors this man unleashed not only on the US, but the rest of the world---he did not deserve to be tried in the "civilized world" he so despised and say a big thanks to the guy who fired the fatal round---he did us all a major public service.

[matutum]

I must say I'm not ecstatic to have him in the worlds food chain now :banghead:I'm curious as to how a burial at sea is done. I hope its encased in something. *shutters*

muslims bury their dead in ground, military says it has possession of body..i want to see body,like we saw Saddam ect..but pictures can be faked..maybe cut him up into tiny,tiny pieces and encase them in plastic(oil) and sell them..prob balance the budget that way:rolleyes:

[bullhead69]

Think again Max. during the war who supplied the materials you needed to
hold your own during the war. Please don't get me wrong. If I sound like i am bashing the Brits i'm not. I Like the Brits. I just feel the kiilling of the head of the snake is symbollic and is worth giving out a yahoo for yippee kayah.

[Paul B.]

The circumstances around Bin Laden's over due end begs the obvious question of how he able to live in a COMPOUND (not a cave) in an affluent area home to a number of retired Pakistani military officers without being detected. I have said since 911 that the only way he could have survived for nearly 10 yrs. is by a having a great number of people in the area having his back-big time.

[12voltman59]

The area where Bin Laden had been holed up in Pakistan, from what they say, is a rather affluent area---the actual compound is only a few miles from what is the equivalent of Pakistan's West Point Military Academy.

When it comes to Bin Laden--like a Mafia don---he had a nearly unlimited amount of money to throw around and I bet he did that in spades, his operatives greasing the palms of the local officials in that part of Pakistan--not that this sort of thing is anything new--we have had tons of rich American guys go to some other country who faced all kinds of things from tax evasion, theft, embezzlement and murder who went to places like France and such and avoided justice for years---so Bin Laden in that case was just another wanted fugitive on the lam who between throwing his money around and I am some sure some sense of "the muslim brotherhood" thing--got away with living where he did for all these years without being bothered--but we did finally--get him!!!

[Falke]

I'm afraid the despots will always be with us!

Ben Laden, Caligula, Stalin, Hitler, Saddam Hussein...I could fill the page.

No, someone is always in line when they're gone, ready and willing to take their places!

Pretty much. However, take the time to celebrate when one is kicked off the planet. :)

[elian]

Probably not an end to terror, there will always be people who resort to whatever means necessary to get their way.

Like the guy in the below interview I really wish they could have kept him alive, so that he could be tried in the countries where Al-Qaeda executed bombing attacks, then probably executed with a big sword according to the custom of the Shari'a philosophy Al-Qaeda claims to uphold.

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/02/135917389/lawrence-wright-bin-ladens-death-long-in-coming

Now that he is dead, and it is well known that Americans killed him he will become a martyr, which is exactly what he would want. On the other hand, this does make a strong statement that the US will continue to hunt until we keep our promises.

In at least one way things didn't go the way Bin Laden wanted, there are many, many folks in the middle east who are now advocating very hard for democracy after years of oppressive rule.

I guess we'll all wait and see..

[12voltman59]

Now I hear that Bin Laden's Lair had a luxury golf course less than a quarter mile away---I wonder what his handicap was?? Boy-I bet that was a fun day---Bin Laden and the buds out for a day on the links--drinking some brews, smoking cigars, telling infidel jokes, cutting farts, planing their next terrorist attack on some western city--boy--what fun!!!! :bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

[elian]

It would be nice if we could end the war soon, we have been at war so long here now I'm not quite sure what it was like beforehand. I think people were a lot less paranoid?

[ohbimale]

I am a U.S. citizen and I remember our government armed and trained bin Ladden and his crew to fight against the Russians in Afghanatasn. After the Russians left he turned on us like a rabid animal. No his death does not mean anything, except an end to a chapter. But watch his followers make the place he died into holy ground, because they will make him a martyr and carry on his name. Are we safer? No, not in my opinion.

[Katja]

muslims bury their dead in ground

This may yet come to haunt us. Islamic scholars are telling us that a sea burial is disrespectful and an offence against Sharia law, that sea burials are allowed under exceptional circumstances, but that the assassination of Bin Laden cannot be considered in this light. It is already being used by some as a club with which to hit the west and its disrespect for Islam over the head. Obama may yet come to rue that decision. .

Already the doubters are questioning whether Bin Laden is dead at all, as was always going to be the case. Whether he is dead or not matters only inasmuch as it depends whether he is or is not still the live figurehead of Al Qaeda. A martyred Bin Laden will be every bit as dangerous as he would be if he is still running the show. More so arguably.

The US buried him at sea if we are to believe official statements, to prevent his grave becoming a shrine. The compound where he was killed will, as Bimalewitch has said, easily become a very effective substitute. So indeed could the Pacific or Indian Ocean for that matter.

So far little or no evidence has been made available that the man is dead. The US government is taking its time about that and when they do, since there is no body to display, it had better be convincing. No matter how convincing the evidence is however, there will always be some who will doubt.

[Hephaestion]

According to Today's (programme) news:

1) the Arabian Sea that has been declared his shrine by some.

2) The entire event was live broadcast to the Whitehouse

3) His wife was shot in the leg as she tried to protect him as he was unarmed

4) there is debate on whether to release photographs of the result.

Buried at sea disrespectful? One wonders whether being shot in the head (reported the eye) isn't seen as a tad more disrespectful. Peculiar, being buried at sea is seen as most respectful in Western Society.

Can it be that the 'infectious' uprisings in the series of muslim countries under the banner of democratic revolt have been orchestrated to dislodge any ground support for Al Qaeda; a sort of domino effect once thought the vehicle of communist expansion?

[Katja]

According to Today's (programme) news:

1) the Arabian Sea that has been declared his shrine by some.

2) The entire event was live broadcast to the Whitehouse

3) His wife was shot in the leg as she tried to protect him as he was unarmed

4) there is debate on whether to release photographs of the result.

Buried at sea disrespectful? One wonders whether being shot in the head (reported the eye) isn't seen as a tad more disrespectful. Peculiar, being buried at sea is seen as most respectful in Western Society.

Can it be that the 'infectious' uprisings in the series of muslim countries under the banner of democratic revolt have been orchestrated to dislodge any ground support for Al Qaeda; a sort of domino effect once thought the vehicle of communist expansion?

The death of Bin Laden does raise some interesting questions. The American incursion into Pakistan was plainly illegal if we are to believe reports that Pakistan was not aware that it was to take place and had not given permission for it.

The killing of an unarmed suspect by a policeman would very likely have the policeman in the dock for murder, and whatever people may think Obama was no more than that. We do not know if the others who were killed were armed or not, but if they were not this hardly makes things any better for the rule of law. The wife, contrary to initial reports was not used as a shield but made herself one in an effort the protect her husband.

As details emerge of the operation it becomes more clear in my mind that the operation was an assassination, not a policing operation to attempt to apprehend a criminal terrorist. There are many who will applaud this, for what we think we know of the man, he was a very dangerous, quite disgusting excuse of a human being. Assassinations by state apparatus in foriegn operations are quite frequent events, we should never doubt it. Yet I wonder how Americans would feel if such an operation was mounted by the Russians, Chinese or any other country in for example in a town of comparable size on mainland USA? It is an extremely dangerous thing to have done and is not untypical of what we call great powers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2011/05/the_white_house_has_had.html

[Darkside2009]

Just as the British celebrated victory at El Almaine, even though the Second World War had not ended, I believe it right and proper that we celebrate the death of this terrorist.

The Public have been saved the cost of his trial, hostages will not be taken to try and secure his release. We have all seen what justice and mercy were meted out to the hostages they did take. Witnesses and their families, will not be intimidated, to try and prevent them giving evidence.

All in all a very satisfactory job, well planned, well executed. One step in the overall war against terrorists. Leave them no hiding place, no bolt hole they can run to and feel safe. These Master-minds live in luxury, whilst they send young gullible men and women out into the World with explosives strapped to their bodies to commit murder and carnage.

I do not have one ounce of sympathy for him, neither shall I shed one tear at his passing. He lived by the sword and he died by the sword. I don't have any problems with him being buried at sea either, to prevent his grave becoming a martyr's shrine. Even if it does upset certain Muslim sensibilities. Where were those same Muslim voices raised against him and his cohorts when they brought death and violence to the West?

As to the excuses coming out of Pakistan, I find them pathetic. I believe Britain should be re-evaluating its relationship with Pakistan and should certainly not be giving it millions of hard-earned British tax-payer's money.

The money they spent on developing their nuclear weapons would have been better spent on food and housing, education and hospitals and proper sanitation for their poor.

As to an incursion into Pakistan's Sovereign territory, if they allow their country to be a safe haven for terrorists to strike from, then they must expect such incursions in retaliation. The solution is simple, and in their hands, don't allow the safe havens, there will be no need to go in after them.
All the more galling as Pakistan is supposed to be an ally of the West.

Burial at sea was the right choice, I just wish some of his cohorts had drowned trying to dig his grave.

There are those who think that by taking action against terrorists we make a target of ourselves. To those people I would suggest they wake up, they are already a target. To allow terrorists to strike with impunity wherever and whenever they want, merely serves to embolden them, and for others to emulate them.

When you find vermin in the attic, you eradicate them, you don't allow them the run of the house. When you find cancer in the body, you use every means to eradicate it, you don't just sit back and hope it will get better of its own accord. Evil only thrives when good people don't do anything to stop it.

[Katja]

They did a burial at sea so there would not be a grave site for Bin Laden and people wouldn't make a shrine there and worship him as a martyr.

Bin Laden deserves no respect or any sort of respectful Islamic burial at all. I'm glad he's shark food.

Do you actually read what people write? Burying him at sea will not prevent his death site from becoming a shrine, and will not prevent him being a martyr to many. The compound where he died will serve the purpose equally as well as any grave and even should it be demolished, the site will do just as well whatever they do with it.

I have no sympathy whatever for Al Qaeda, nor of what I know or at least believe I know of Bin laden, but do see that it is not inconceivable that the death of a man who stands for everything the west loathes or is claimed by its enemies to loathe can and almost certainly shall be used against it. How dangerously and how effectively remains to be seen.

Already myth and legend about the man are growing up around him, aided by a short sighted American administration who are playing a very bad hand of cards by releasing limited information on his death, no pictures of his body and issuing contradictory statements about the operation. Sightings of Bin laden on the loose may well be reported in due course, but it is not at all inconceivable that he did not die, but is in fact held in custody by the US somewhere in the world for treatment of his wounds and ultimately interrogation. We don't know and are unlikely to without an outrageous leak or a stroke of luck and I have heard of no claims or reports of this. It is simply a possibility which we cannot discount as yet.

There are questions to be answered and American handling of this has been clumsy and cack handed in that no independent verification of his death, or pictures of his body are to be published and may well prove to be a curse for US and western interests. As time passes bits and pieces will be be brought together about the events of the raid other than the official US government version and if we never know quite the whole truth it is extremely possible that the Obama administration may well find itself somewhat less covered in glory than has been the case in the last couple of days.

I don't like loose ends. It may be that there was no alternative to the US handling the situation as it did. But loose ends can be troublesome and have an unhealthy knack of proving very troublesome indeed to those who left them so.

[celticmagic]

I must say I'm not ecstatic to have him in the worlds food chain now :banghead:I'm curious as to how a burial at sea is done. I hope its encased in something. *shutters*

I don't know how's it is done either, but for this scum
it should be done like this: One can of Spam stuffed in his mouth, one good fat Italian pork sausage in his ass, and for weight, a piece of steel bean or a chunk of concret from
the Twin Towers attached to his neck, and a pig tied in his feet.

[PolyLoveTriad]

There have been terrorists since the beginning of time and there will be until the world no longer exists... or until my sister dies

[PolyLoveTriad]

I don't know how's it is done either, but for this scum
it should be done like this: One can of Spam stuffed in his mouth, one good fat Italian pork sausage in his ass, and for weight, a piece of steel bean or a chunk of concret from
the Twin Towers attached to his neck, and a pig tied in his feet.

You hungry? lol all that pork!

[Katja]

I find it funny that conspiracy theorists are now claiming that Bin Laden was not killed by the US Navy SEALS and that he's somehow still alive even though they did a DNA test and confirmed that it was in fact Bin Laden and he was shot and killed. :rolleyes:

These are the same fools who believe that "9/11 was an inside job! The WTC had bombs in it and the planes didn't crash into the towers at all!" :rolleyes:

If that barb is aimed at me it has missed its mark. I don't clsim he was not killed, but until such time as there is some independently verified evidence doubts will remain. We are told that DNA tests were conducted but who by and upon whom? Do you believe every word your government tells you and never question it?

This fool does not believe in the conspiracy theories about 9/11 but neither does this fool take what I am told by official sources regarding such hugely important matters at face value. They have already changed the story once. A little truth would not go amiss, and a little independent verification that Bin Laden is dead and verification by US military or intelligence personnel does not qualify. Until it is verified in such a way as to dispell the doubt, the mystique of Bin Laden will remain and even statements by 12 year old eye witnesses will not dispell that doubt and that mystique, allied to the martyr status that many will accredit him, may well prove a very dangerous thing indeed.

[_someone_]

That's a pretty naive idea. I think that terrorism and all kinds of extremism will always exist. Sometimes "direct action" to "end" the problem of something can end up heightening the problem.

[tenni]

"We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush’s compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic. Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden’s, and he is not a “suspect” but uncontroversially the “decider” who gave the orders to commit the “supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole” (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region."
Noam Chomsky

http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/2652/noam_chomsky_my_reaction_to_os/

Amongst the various opinions about terrorism and bin Laden, questions are arising as to whether the US is or is not a terrorist country. Despite some US people believing that the US is above international laws, legal issues of sovereignty and if international law is not followed that the country is acting as a terrorist nation. It is argued that only by adhering to international laws that we can distinguish an organization/country from being a terrorist. Without following international laws and a trial to prove that bin Laden is found guilty we have only an assassination and invasion of a sovereign country by what some think is a suspected terrorist organization (US SEALs).

Chmosky argues
"...the FBI could say no more than that it “believed” that the plot was hatched in Afghanistan, though implemented in the UAE and Germany. What they only believed in April 2002, they obviously didn’t know 8 months earlier, when Washington dismissed tentative offers by the Taliban (how serious, we do not know, because they were instantly dismissed) to extradite bin Laden if they were presented with evidence—which, as we soon learned, Washington didn’t have. Thus Obama was simply lying when he said, in his White House statement, that “we quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda.”

[Darkside2009]

I hope you have enough insurance to indemnify yourself and the owners of this site against libel.

Secondly, I don't suppose that the FBI, Obama or the Taliban for that matter, consult with Chomsky when making their deliberations. The FBI may well with hold publishing evidence in their possession in order not to prejudice any trial, or endanger those supplying the evidence, or acting as witnesses.

Thirdly, I don't suppose Chomsky, by any chance, has a book he's trying to promote? :rolleyes:

[Long Duck Dong]

there are times that any country, or person has to cross the legal line in order to stop those whom do not act according to legal law.....

any person that has served in the military or law enforcement, will be able to say, that if you act according to the letter of the law, you will lose every war and most of the criminals will go free....

there are too many *experts * in the world with opinions and ideas on how things should be done, and with no experience in doing what they proclaim to work....

the US, like many other countries, has engaged in terrorist style military action.... WW1 was fought without the international law that was in place for WW 2 and that makes every country that was involved, quilty of terrorism by defination.....

I may not agree with a lot of what the US does... but I do not see many other countries stepping in to do anything.....

what I see is a set of rules and laws and the UN council with their sanctions.... and I see terrorists and criminals that are laughing and saying rules and laws only work for those that choose to abide by them.....

those, like me that have served, know, only too well.... that there is many people in the world that will judge us harshly.... without having walked in our shoes.....

let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone.....

[nudeorphic]

I don't think it's the end.

Read somewhere that small, cheap, deadly attacks could bleed financially a country by forcing that country to spend huge amounts of money post attacks-though, the success rate to stop such attacks would be very small.

Terrorism is the military arm of radiacl Islam. It's not over by a long shot.

[bigbadmax]

there are times that any country, or person has to cross the legal line in order to stop those whom do not act according to legal law.....

any person that has served in the military or law enforcement, will be able to say, that if you act according to the letter of the law, you will lose every war and most of the criminals will go free....

there are too many *experts * in the world with opinions and ideas on how things should be done, and with no experience in doing what they proclaim to work....

the US, like many other countries, has engaged in terrorist style military action.... WW1 was fought without the international law that was in place for WW 2 and that makes every country that was involved, quilty of terrorism by defination.....

I may not agree with a lot of what the US does... but I do not see many other countries stepping in to do anything.....

what I see is a set of rules and laws and the UN council with their sanctions.... and I see terrorists and criminals that are laughing and saying rules and laws only work for those that choose to abide by them.....

those, like me that have served, know, only too well.... that there is many people in the world that will judge us harshly.... without having walked in our shoes.....

let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone.....

Not true in the UK.
We have Rules of Engagement and BR's etc. If you cast aside these Laws then you lower to the level of scum. HMF dont take the Law into their own hands..if they do then punishment is swift and harsh and her majesty's pleasure is anything but at Colchester glasshouse.

[Katja]

Not true in the UK.
We have Rules of Engagement and BR's etc. If you cast aside these Laws then you lower to the level of scum. HMF dont take the Law into their own hands..if they do then punishment is swift and harsh and her majesty's pleasure is anything but at Colchester glasshouse.

Much as I would like to believe what you say is true, but there are innumerable instances of HM forces taking the law into their own hands and/or committing atrocities. From Afghanistan to Iraq, Northern Ireland to Malaya, Ireland to India, South Africa to colonial America, Scotland to Australasia.

[bigbadmax]

Maybe HM Govt should apologise to the muslims as well for the crusades...or the spanish for genocide against the aztecs.

[Long Duck Dong]

Not true in the UK.
We have Rules of Engagement and BR's etc. If you cast aside these Laws then you lower to the level of scum. HMF dont take the Law into their own hands..if they do then punishment is swift and harsh and her majesty's pleasure is anything but at Colchester glasshouse.

google XE services LLC, refered to in cables published by wikileaks, as blackwater.......

private military contractors are not controlled by the rules of engagement and operate outside of military control.... so ask yourself, why has the US and the UK and other countries employed them ???

lil hint, if you want to play by the rule book, then you find those that don't....

[Katja]

Maybe HM Govt should apologise to the muslims as well for the crusades...or the spanish for genocide against the aztecs.

Maybe they should. An apology from the Vatican wouldn't go amiss either.

[Hephaestion]

Mentioned in the newscasts over the weekend 07/08 May 2011 that the 1st Iraqi war provoked the polarisation of Osama Bin Laden against the USA. Reported that the Saudis were offered 'his' services to oust Saddam Hussein. When the Saudis chose the USA, OBL considered it an insult and took offence.

Peculiar that S.Hussein was also supported by the USA and turned against it in the way that OBL is reported to have. One wonders what really happened in the background to have done the same to both.

The sense of betrayal by the authorities of the USA seems a common theme when it comes to 'irrational' behaviour e.g. North VietNam at one time so enamoured by the USA that they incorporated parts of the US constitution into their own.

Usually historical episodes are linked and consequential: Turks, Crusades Cafe, Spain, French, Brits, Russians, AustroHungary, Serbia, Nazi Germany etc It used to be "beware of Greeks bearing gifts" Is it simply that nationality changed?

Is this a job for Wikileaks? Up up and awaaay.

[tenni]

Some Canadian media reported this weekend on how this action in Pakistan has reduced the arguments against the US president. His opponents are running out of things to attack now that his birth certificate argument and accusations about being "soft" on terror are vanishing. There is the observation from some Canadian media that Obama's opponents are increasingly turning to the argument about "American Exceptionalism" to distinguish themselves from Obama or criticize him. It may be seen that believing that your government has the right to invade another country to capture and kill someone without the country's permission may align with some aspects of "American Exceptionalism" and so it may be interesting how Obama's opponents present their arguments about this.