Gay Snoggin in Public

[darkeyes]

We have discussed the issue of same sex affection displays in public at least once that I remember and I know there is no consensus on it even among gay and bisexuals.. this week down south 2 guys claim they were told to leave a pub for doin just that..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/14/gay-claim-ejected-pub-kissing

A few years ago Kate and I were told to leave a pub in Fort William for doing much the same thing. The customers almost rioted in our favour when we took issue with the landlord for his high and mighty stance and he backed down.. no one really was offended.. but that I would think is because we are not guys.. over time I have also often canoodled with, shown affection to and snogged wildly a good number of guys in pubs and other public places and very rarely was I ever told to stop...

Of course when people do go over the top I can see that some people may get upset.. especially if there are kids about.. but really.. in this day and age should we not grow up and accept that things have changed.. no longer are same sex couples forced into a box, and if we are to truly believe in becoming a part of society on an equal footing with heterosexuals should we not be able to show affection to each other in public places in the same way as heterosexuals do in our streets and our parks and our pubs and our clubs and the other open places courting couples have always shown affection to each other?

I do accept we should all show some restraint.. society isnt quite ready for full blown rogering in any of our public places and I think someone would object to 69 in the middle of Princes Street gardens on a lovely summers day.. not quite yet.. but is it so bad for 2 guys to show open affection 2 each other?

What a uptight society we have at times...

[darkeyes]

Me dad.. knowin of such things wiv him bein a memba of CAMRA (the Campaign for Real Ale) tells me that Samuel Smith has bar in middle of the North Sea on an oil rig.. it is also called the John Snow.. bit of a swim from ther.. tee hee.. wonda ifya allowed 2 get well oiled"? Bit of a slippery slope ifya can me wud think.. wet on outside an in..

.. will stick 2 me plonk an cognac ta.. least wen am allowed sum..:rolleyes:

Snog-ins r bein arranged in Sam Smith pubs as a protest.. now that cud prove interestin...even troublesome.. an me not allowed out!!!:eek: No stress.. havta b nice... do as me told... sigh..:(

[sammie19]

This seems to explain things a little better, Fran. And it seem to be a bit more balanced. As always there are two sides in an argument. I do agree with you in principle, but you know as well as I do that there are pubs which expect propriety whatever people's sexual orientation is.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13091833

[*foxy_roxy*]

What a controversial topic. How can society accept heterosexual displays of affection in public and not homosexual, it is ludicrous. Yet, the article posted did identify that 'house-rules' are made, and in some places public displays of affection such as these are not allowed, be they hetero or homo.
There have been many occasions when, walking down the street, merely holding hands with my partner has caused people to stare and to make all involved feel uncomfortable. Fran is right, we no longer live in a confined world, we are meant to be able to be more open about ourselves, but maybe we are still waiting for older members of society to catch up.
My partner recently came out to her nieces, who frankly couldn't care less that she was gay, yet she is unable to come out to her father who is seriously homophobic. Although we are paving the way to a more open future, it is difficult to get everyone to accept who we are when they were brought up in a society where it was wrong to gay.
Personally, anyone shoving their tongues down each others throats is a little much to take, no matter what their sexual preference is, but that is my opinion. It is difficult in this case to identify if it was because they were gay or because they were publicly displaying affection.
We also must not forget, us English, we do not do public displays of affection, or emotion, we are far too prim and proper for that (until you watch the programmes about the nightclubs and the teens having sex all over them...)
x x x

[Realist]

As possibly one of the oldest members, here, I agree that many of the older folks are very intolerant about public displays of affection, especially that of gay, or bisexual people. Where I live, they are a lot more apt to be offended and react badly, by the slightest show of affection, in public.

I also agree that there should be limits of severity and depths of affection exhibited. I couldn't say what is OK for everyone, but for me, there are limits of how overt that show of affection should be. Still, if they weren't adversely affecting me personally, I would not say anything.

I know, from experience, Europeans who I've come in contact with, seemed to be a lot more accepting and less condemning, than where I was born and raised.

In the late '50s, I had a male lover in Germany, and not once did anyone say anything to us. We did subdue our interactions in public, but I think anyone who saw us would know we were a "couple".

There are pockets of tolerance in different locations, but overall, I believe it will be a long time before everyone accepts gay and bisexual lovers, in public.

[elian]

I wish, especially around Christmastime and Valentine's Day - I always get a little depressed watching all of the straight folks walking around holding hands even..

[matutum]

I wish, especially around Christmastime and Valentine's Day - I always get a little depressed watching all of the straight folks walking around holding hands even..

Religion and brainwashing play a big part. Its not a publicly accepted practice unless you are in the right neighborhood.

[darkeyes]

They closed the pub!! Wotta a cop out.. big Nells....

Mayb they shud carry on wiv the Snog In every night... till the landlord stops bein such a div...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/15/john-snow-kiss-in-london

[bigbadmax]

VERY closedminded F.

Firstly, never judge without all the facts.
Secondly the "kiss in" damages the gay image and lives upto sterotypical view on gays in british society.
Thirdly it smells like a comensation trap.
Fourth and most importantly, pubs are seen as the landlords front room so what they say is gospel,especially when warned previously tone it down.




They closed the pub!! Wotta a cop out.. big Nells....

Mayb they shud carry on wiv the Snog In every night... till the landlord stops bein such a div...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/15/john-snow-kiss-in-london

[darkeyes]

VERY closedminded F.

Firstly, never judge without all the facts.
Secondly the "kiss in" damages the gay image and lives upto sterotypical view on gays in british society.
Thirdly it smells like a comensation trap.
Fourth and most importantly, pubs are seen as the landlords front room so what they say is gospel,especially when warned previously tone it down.

You're not the first to have a go at me today about this, and it is true that I dont have the full facts.. I dont regret taking the stance I do because if it makes the landlord have to justify what he has done, and he has acted fairly then I have no leg to stand on do I? But I have had enough experience in my little life of high handed landlords and other figures in authority telling the world what they do applies to one and all when it patently is not and has never been the case.

The Snog In damaging? I think that has to be arguable at the very least.. gays and bisexuals have done many things which are much more tame over the years and been told much the same thing.. and yet these actions were taken to further their interests against an often criticial wider community.. we either fight for what we believe or or we curtsey or doff out caps and say "Right guv.. ur the boss.. we're sorry.. we will go away now..". If it assists in gettin to the truth of the matter, whatever that truth may be then it will have served a useful purpose..

I do hope it isnt a compensation trap and dont think it is the case.. but sometimes many differnt types of trap can serve a useful purpose if it brings out truth and moves us forward..

..a public bar is not a landlord's front room whatever they may think..it is a place of business as regulated by law.. a landlord is responsible for ensuring that the law is upheld. He or she within certain limits can make his or her own house rules, but those house rules can be challenged often by legal action should they be proven unfair or illegal...

... bugger..thats my spoon broken now...;):tong:

[nicco413]

Thank god that Fran is back and firing on all cylinders!!
Hope all goes well me darling, you stimulate me ever diminishing brain cells when you post - trying to get me noggin round yer chatter

[DuckiesDarling]

Thanks Sammie for the other link. What caught my eye is that it didn't matter they were gay, they had to follow the same rules of any other sexuality in that particular pub. Eventually people will realize that playing the gay card is over rated and does more harm to the fight for equal rights than it does good. It's all well and good to take a stand when you are truly discriminated against but in this case it's plain that the rule is for all couples to follow in that pub. Like Sammie pointed out it's not always appropriate for any sexuality to snog in public, somethings are best left for private homes and places that welcome that behaviour not a pub that has rules for all.

[darkeyes]

Like Sammie pointed out it's not always appropriate for any sexuality to snog in public, somethings are best left for private homes and places that welcome that behaviour not a pub that has rules for all.

.. but is that the case darlin' darlin'.. 1st..we r talkin bout Soho.. u kno.. that place fulla naughty places.. London's sex "cultural" heart..

..an now I've seen the pub properly.. the pub name rang no bells but if memory serves me correctly, cos we r goin back 7 or 8 years.. the pub me an me x husband hav been in a cuppla times on visits 2 the nation's capital.. held hands.. showed affection.. huggled.. an o yea.. had the odd lil peck in... is funny.. dont memba gettin turfed outa the place or warned 2 behave.. :). mayb Soho isn't London's sex centre ne more ya think?;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13101898

We have a few membas on site from the smoke.. and plenty who hav almost certainly visited London... not all r bi or gay.. an hav no doubt lots have been in an around Soho.. ne 1 else ne info? Wud b interestin...

[DuckiesDarling]

Thing is, Fran, times change and the rules in that pub could have changed since you were there. The ownership of the pub could have changed since you were there. All in all, I think the kiss in did nothing more than give the pub free publicity. Personally, if I was the pub owner, I wouldn't have locked the doors but I'd have made damn sure anyone who was in the pub was buying drinks.

[void()]

I wish, especially around Christmastime and Valentine's Day - I always get a little depressed watching all of the straight folks walking around holding hands even..

The hate of the world keeps me at bay. That and knowing your station make it difficult. Else, I would lavish kisses and hugs openly, even hold hands. Would love walking with you and the Lady one on each side, down the main. And there are times I get mad, mad thoughts of just going on and doing it.

"Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."

And life really is a joke if you consider it. None of us get out alive. But yes, I would bear some restraint in public. But it does frustrate me to not be able to lean in and kiss you at dinner out, or walking in the park. Or we could walk belly to back.

We ought to declare war on the straights. But that doesn't suit either, I'm married to one. She is so loving and understanding at times I forget she is. Feel really lucky she stays around, and lucky Shiny Man does too. :) Love them both, equally but differently according to themselves respectfully. There isn't any seconds in my eyes. Never has been or will be.

How can you be yourself, when everyone is waiting to kill you for doing that? It's almost enough to push me to violence in order to end the dirty looks, the whispers, the hate. You fight fire with fire. But I know that isn't the way. Shame and pity I can't think of another aside from leading by example. And that ain't the way either.

"We never step out of line, never tell you how we feel but say fine. We're the happy, happy people."

Bah!

"oh, sorry ... Moo Moo, bah bah nothing but us cows and sheep here, move along."

[darkeyes]

Thing is, Fran, times change and the rules in that pub could have changed since you were there. The ownership of the pub could have changed since you were there. All in all, I think the kiss in did nothing more than give the pub free publicity. Personally, if I was the pub owner, I wouldn't have locked the doors but I'd have made damn sure anyone who was in the pub was buying drinks.

One reason wy I asked if ne 1 had ne info.. cos we r talkin so far back.. but in Soho? I doubt it..:)

R u sayin its all a publicity stunt? Know pubs r havin a hard time ova 'ere rite now wiv dozens shuttin shop permanently every week.. but doubt if in Soho they wud hav much trouble wheelin in the customers.. but spose a few xtra nev did a pub ne harm woteva..

But for the poor landlord an landlady their actions may hav 1 unthought of consequence... bein a cause celebre in the gay community.. it mite not b that long b4 the John Snow becomes a gay pub.. now wonda how they wud take 2 that?? That wud b summat 2 rite home 'bout...:tong:

[sammie19]

Sounds to me a bit like fight the fight for the sake of the fight not the sake of the right, Fran. Isn't that what you taught me not to do?:)