A question for black members

[Realist]

I read this, this morning, on one of those news-blurbs on the Internet:

"The 23-year-old resident of a Kingston ghetto hopes to transform her dark complexion to a cafe-au-lait-color common among Jamaica's elite and favored by many men in her neighborhood. She believes a fairer skin could be her ticket to a better life. So she spends her meager savings on cheap black-market concoctions that promise to lighten her pigment."

This is a situation that I have been aware of for several years, but have never understood it. I guess the most visible proponent of Bleaching skin was Michael Jackson.

In college, I knew one of the prettiest black girls I ever saw. Her mother, siblings (a brother and sister) were all light-skinned. Virginia and her father were dark-skinned.

Virginia told me that her mother always favored her siblings, bragging on their looks to family and friends, while she apologized for Virginia being so dark! It was apparent that the mother was ashamed of her!

I never could fathom how a mother could feel that way toward a daughter, who was obviously more intelligent, considerate of others, and personable than her siblings. While her brother and sister were spoiled and exhibited sour personalities, Virginia was an absolute jewel!

Is this still a common thing in the black communities?

I guess it's just hard for me to accept.

[TaylorMade]

Yes. If it's not skin, it's hair. Watch Good Hair by Chris Rock.

*Taylor*

[littlerayofsunshine]

You can even possibly older episodes of the Tyra show. She has one where they discussed prejudice in the black community about complexion. I remember the guest on that show was a moderately dark woman who bleached the skin of her two sons to make them lighter and "more attractive".

OMG I remember "Good Hair" .....Nail on the head Taylor.

[**Peg**]

... I guess the most visible proponent of Bleaching skin was Michael Jackson....

uh....as I understand it, he didn't bleach his skin ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitiligo

[Realist]

Peg,

I'm afraid I'm repeating something I heard about Jackson, using bleach and other chemicals, with no specific proof. Bad habit! I'm not arguing that he did, or didn't, though. Maybe I used him as an example, when I shouldn't have.

Anyway, I'm more interested in comments from black people, about their feelings of light-skinned verses dark skinned people within their own race..

I have known several black people with Vitiligo (didn't know the name of it, though) and the ones I knew had splotchy light and dark coloring. As far as I knew, Virginia's siblings did not have any kind of skin disorder, nor were they bleaching. Virginia told me some intimate things about her family and since she didn't tell me they were bleaching, I assume their difference in skin shade was a natural occurrence. .

[Hephaestion]

M.Jckson was certainly lighter in his later life than in his earlier life. Synchronous with this were his various stages of treatment.

Paedophilia aside, it was the progession of a good looking boy turned into a hideous adult.

[elian]

My understanding of MJ is that he undertook those treatments because he didn't like seeing his father when he looked in the mirror. I've heard that Joe Jackson was quite abusive so I guess it's at least plausible.

[Lenore]

Most of us do things to change our appearance in one way or another (Make-up, hair color, teeth whitening, etc.), however, to go as far as to bleach your skin...To feel as though the color of your skin is not good enough solely based on the perceptions of your community...Idk, It's so sad that one's own family would make you feel less then enough based on something so superficial. Personally, I find dark skin attractive. I'm not really into fashion or the super model scene, but my favorite model is Ajuma Nasenyana because of her amazing complexion.

There are enough negative influences out in the world. Kids need to be loved and encouraged at home. Why not start them out right, telling them they are handsome or beautiful, ...encourage them to love themselves for who they are. There are going to be plenty of people out in the world telling them they are not good enough for one reason or another. Accepting yourself can be an up hill battle all by itself. Home should be your safe place where you can be comfortable in your own skin.

Just my two cents.....

[DuckiesDarling]

Found this on the net, Realist. I don't know if it will help provide information but it's informative.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/beauty/4876870/Skin-bleaching-a-growing-problem-in-Jamaica-slums

[Realist]

Thanks DD, I got the quoted paragraph I used, from an article similar to the one you sent. Apparently, this is not a localized attitude.

I appreciate everyone's responses, but the question was not about Michael Jackson, skin diseases, or bleaching, but about dark folks being maligned by lighter-skinned folks. Now, I'm wondering if Arabs, Indians, Pakistanis, etc, etc, feel the same way?

Just goes to show you, that when you're asking questions, you should be specific and to the point. Looking at the way I wrote that, I can see that I left several doors open for different discussions....none of which addressed the question I had in mind!

[darkeyes]

Soz kate.. need 2 say summat 'ere.. I do understand why people do as they do. I understand it cos I am a part of a people many of whom do exactly the same thing in their own way.. many Scots feel such an inferiority complex they will do almost anything to escape their roots. They will take elocution lessons and learn standard English English as opposed to standard Scottish English which isnt quite the same thing. They will even lose their accent completely just to fit in. Some deny their roots and where they were born, and some lie about their parentage and heritage. Many.. especially the nobs Scots send their kids to private and public school to gain English qualifications and to become, well.. English in effect.. ex PM Tony Blair, Edinburgh born and bred of Scottish parents, educated at Fettes College in Edinburgh, calls himself not a Scotsman at all.. he supported England against Scotland at the 1998 European Football Championships. The Scottish private school system is aimed at producing not Scottish people but little Englanders and the Scottish nobs just love that.

Ever since the Union of the Crowns in 1603, and since the Parliamentary union of 1707, we have been made to feel inferior by our larger naighbour. Our language is but a poor imitation of the original, the second language of our country, Gaelic, is well on the way to becoming extinct, and we are belittled and considered second class citizens by many many people south of the border. Our institutions have become more like Englands, and our self esteem eaten away at by centuries of sniping from the powers that be south of the border.England has all but claimed the name of our state for itself.. how many of u abroad call the UK "England"? Much of Europe does.. and the Commonwealth. Many on this site have also...

Thankfully over the last decade or so we have begun to recover so much of our self esteem and the confidence of Scots and I think Northern Irish and Welsh people also has begun to recover.. whatever people think of the democratic changes in the UK over the last decade or so, the creation of parliaments and assemblies for the three Celtic nations of the UK have helped in this regard..

It is not all plain sailing however for racist attacks at least in Scotland upon peopel of English origin are on the increase and there is much stirring south of the border about what we do and what we get out of the exchequer..

I use my country's situation and the attitudes of many of the people of my country as an analogy... just as not all Scots lack self esteem, neither do all blacks... but in the UK blacks have it much worse than do we in the modern era, and much worse than the Asian immigrants from the subcontinent of India and from farther east even althought they are exposed to much racism also...and people of my country, just as our southern neighbours did with us over centuries, are as responsible as any others who are indigenous to the UK. We are white, better educated and well.. simply better than black people.. arent we? And the racism of my people? That cannot be laid at the door of our southern partners and neighbours... that is quite simply within ourselves... and issues such as skin lightening among black people are symptomatic of a people simply striving to belong and become a part of the life of our country on an equal footing... and we should be fucking ashamed of ourselves for having created the conditions and attitudes within a people that makes their desire to belong so strong they will deny themselves as what and who they are..

[chicagom]

To quote Mike Myers...."If it's not Scottish.....it's crrrrrapppp!"

[dickhand]

To quote me ; "I wish I had a black member !"

[Drkluvtheory99]

Wats up! I am 23 and didnt notice my own dark complexion I have become darker since i wasin middle and high school. My friends and I all joke about it but it is a reality. The girl I date normally only dates lighter people I am the darkest person she has dated and even her family was shocked to see her with me. I think black is beautiful no matter what. It is a very common thing among us and doesnt help with the way media and the general society portrays the differences.

[elian]

Most of us do things to change our appearance in one way or another (Make-up, hair color, teeth whitening, etc.), however, to go as far as to bleach your skin...To feel as though the color of your skin is not good enough solely based on the perceptions of your community...Idk, It's so sad that one's own family would make you feel less then enough based on something so superficial. Personally, I find dark skin attractive. I'm not really into fashion or the super model scene, but my favorite model is Ajuma Nasenyana because of her amazing complexion.

There are enough negative influences out in the world. Kids need to be loved and encouraged at home. Why not start them out right, telling them they are handsome or beautiful, ...encourage them to love themselves for who they are. There are going to be plenty of people out in the world telling them they are not good enough for one reason or another. Accepting yourself can be an up hill battle all by itself. Home should be your safe place where you can be comfortable in your own skin.

Just my two cents.....

It is definitely good advice.

As it just so happens I read an interview today with the make up person (Karen Faye) MJ used for most of his career - she says she was fairly certain that he had Vitiligo and she also said after working with him for that long she knew his face as well as he did. Since the disease causes patches of pigmentation cells to actually stop functioning apparently he felt that the only thing he could realistically do was to take the drastic step of "treating" everything.

All I can say is I'm very glad I am not famous, I imagine always being under scrutiny can tend to make a person paranoid.

Drkluvtheory99, I am glad that you found a good companion/ Where I grew up was in a very rural, white conservative area and sometimes when I go back there I hear people make comments that just want to make me stand up and say, "Well thank GOD you were BORN with the right SKIN COLOR!!" - but of course these are the type of folk who have a shotgun in the truck and like any excuse to try it out. Maybe it makes me a coward that I don't say much but then again I'm in the closet about being bi as well so..

[diamond_tether]

(Male half here.)

Unfortunately, skin color does play a big part in certain ethnic groups. While individuals from African countries don't always display these tendencies, blacks in western cultures often do. It has to do with prejudice. Think about it, if being black means you're discriminated against - why on earth would you not wish to be as light as possible?

Historically, the lightest slaves were allowed to work in the house and be personal attendants, as opposed to the harsh life of working in a field. Being light means your life isn't as hard as that of a dark-skinned person. It's an unfortunate system of thought, but it was logically born from a reality in which prejudice against skin color did and still does exist.

It's an issue that still exists in the black community. For instance, I have family members that refuse to date individuals who are darker than they are. When confronted, it usually comes down to how the eventual children will be treated by a society that still holds and acts on a lot of prejudice (no offense to those who feel we've 'passed' that point in culture and history - but take a walk with me through certain parts of the US you'll see just how far 'past' racism we actually are, and no, it's not all rural territory that I'm talking about).

Skin color also plays a huge part of other ethnic groups. If you're interested in how, check out the 'caste system' in India. The lighter you are, the better. Same goes in places like Brazil. Dark-skinned individuals are associated with the slaves that were brought to that country. To have dark skin is to be a part of a lineage of lower-class individuals as opposed to the transplanted Portuguese who had light skin.

Thankfully, as the world culture moves toward a place where skin color doesn't matter we see less and less concern over it. Personally, I think it's stupid. I'm a mix of both white and black and find the attention and special status given to something I had no control over to be ridiculous and unnecessary, but it's a fact of life.

[Realist]

Thanks for that, Diamond.

I can't fathom how a person's character, personality, and heart, can take a second place to their skin color!

Even though I was raised to believe that anyone, who is different than my race, is inferior......... I learned early-on, that there are good and bad folks, in all walks of life.

I'm proud that I didn't let my early environment influence me to have the same prejudices and distrust of others, just because of a person's color.

[biblkman]

I am mixed, 1/2 black & latino.

I don't see nothing wrong with someone of darker skin wanting to be or trying to be lighter, just like I see nothing wrong with white people who tan to get darker or short haired people trying to get longer hair or short people wearing heels or boots to be taller.

For some reason in the black community its ok to wear fake nailes, padded bras, fake hair, but to want to change your skin tone.....u should be ashamed of yourself,

But if your q light skin person who says they want to be darker than that's cool.

I grew up in an all black community and went to all black schools, and when I was a kid I wished I was darker so I would fit in and not get beat up for being a " pretty boy " as time went my I stared to love my skin tone.

Bottom line.....people have there own perception of beauty, weather it started within or influenced, and if they want to change there appearance to what they see as beautiful than I don't see anything wrong with it

[ballerbeauty]

i'm half black half hispanic. my sister is alot lighter than me.
the type of person that is generally attracted to my sister is the clean cut hispanic guy. my sister herself identifies herself more with the hispanic community than the black community.
i however am the opposite.
the type of person thats attracted to me is the dark skined gaangsterish person. i also tend to aknoledge my black side more than my hispanic one.
although my sister and i are not the same person, we have the same morals and values, as well as carry ourselves the same way.
the simple truth of the matter is people form their opnions (most of the time) just by looking at the color of your skin. lighter skin is the advantage because people are more accepting of it. people are more willing to look past your skin color if ur lighter. it's the truth. yell at me for this all you want but it's not going to change.
this is my stance on the whole thing. i'm not gonna change for anything, nor should anyone else.it's stupid to try to change for someone else especially if they can't accept you for the beauty god gave you. don't change for anyone.

[rich4u]

This is why I say not all parents are meant 2 have children. When u can't love ur child UNCONDITIONALLY then seek therapy in some form 2 help u determine what lies beneath that's making you crush your own child's individuality. So sad 2 hear of this primitive thought process.