Pornography and Women

[Katja]

I have to own up and say that I am a viewer of net pornography. I was first switched on while at boarding school by an older girl to 'whet my appetite'. It did the trick I have to admit and ever since have been an avid if somewhat secret and slightly ashamed viewer. Very few know of my little secret and I keep very quiet whenever the subject is raised among my circle of friends. Even those who I know are themselves keen viewers.

Should I feel as I do? This feeling of shame and seediness? I have never watched it every day, but there are occasions when the need and mood is upon me I am drawn to pornography as a fly is to a candle. In my marriage, my husband and I used it frequently yet he never knew of my lone viewings born mostly out of need and for my own gender and it was bisexual and lesbian pornography which always drew me on these lonely moments and enabled me to live for a little while the fantasy which flickered on my screen. Now that I live alone I view it more than ever and begin to wonder whether I am addicted, or whether I am simply using it as release for the pent up frustrations of a very intermittent sex life.

I still find myself unable to open up and talk to friends about my viewing habits and the fantasies this voyeurism creates in my mind. It is still something which I feel not right about yet it still draws still moves me in ways which for nice girls, it shouldn't.

It was this morning's Guardian which has made me think about pornography and what it means to me. Why do women view pornography and is it really something that they are doing more of? Is my viewing of pornography and what it gives me really so seedy and should I feel this embarrassment and shame? Logic tells me no, but what is logic when it comes to how we have been brought up to think of something as corrupting and immoral. I cannot help myself. This feeling of delicious sinfulness is a bit like the bar of chocolate I stole from our village shop when a child.

I really must get a life.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/apr/07/women-addicted-internet-pornography

[sdnaustin]

I find it wonderful that women are enjoying porn as well as men...my wife watches it some, though she rolls her eyes a lot...there is nothing seedy or shameful about wanting to see other people having sex. It is an amazingly thrilling thing to watch, long live porn!

[Long Duck Dong]

LOL I am a male, so my opinion is based, not around a male point of view, but from many years of doing counselling and therapy work with people.....

one of the more common reasons for people to watch porn, was their interest in seeing what was going on while they with making love... the porn showed a view of things that was not normally visible to the person and so they became better able to relate to the feelings and desires that they had... and what they sought and desired in the bedroom.....

there is *external * and *internal * feelings and emotions involved....

the external feelings are the desire to be fucked a certain way... involve acertain scenerio.... a set chain of events so to speak....

the internal feelings are the desire to feel a certain way while been fucked or to be fucked a certain way.....

the emotions are the same.... external is the sense of domination and submission.... internal is the feelings of being held and loved......

porn becomes like a voyeurs point of view, they watch and learn from the videos and dvds....

where it causes problems, is when a person super imposes their own thoughts and desires into the video and then when love making, tries to make the lovemaking match the sensations and desires, the person read in to the video........

its a bit like masturbation.... some people find that their feelings and emotions while masturbating, are very different to the feelings and emotions of love making with another person......

so why do people feel so dirty and shamefull and seedy..... well, its mainly cos we are voyeurs.... and while its ok for us to watch the porn, we also worry about what others may think about us watching porn....
we unconsciously think that others may see us at the peeping tom, the perv in the toilets, the deviant in the shower block.....

the simple truth, is we are curious beings, we seek to learn, watch, understand and relate to things that we are not unable to understand as clearly, without the external help.....

we also use porn as a release stimuli, a bit like masturbation..... in the times that we want pleasure, we want release, but we do not want the effort and hassle of communication and interaction with others....... and yes there are times that we want others and can not get somebody to *assist * us, so we DIY ( do it yaself )....

but there is another aspect to watching porn.... the fantasy v's reality aspect.... and that is while love making is nice..... the fantasies are just too dammed nice to resist and ignore.......

happy viewing......

PS.. there is one minor danger to porn watching... its called seeing your own family in their own amateur porn vids :tong::tong::tong:

[DuckiesDarling]

Very interesting thread, Katya. For me, I don't view a lot of porn but once in a while one is brought to my attention by my partner or I would find a clip and say "babe look at this" The last time I found one, it was an awesome strap on lovemaking vid and it was just very powerful. It aroused both of us and that is a rarity, sometimes one I'd think was okay, he'd be like "nah" or one he was interested in and I'd be like "well it's porn".

I'm not as much of a visual person as some, for me I'd rather read a nice steamy novel with graphic sex scenes than watch porn. And when I do view a porn, I prefer it actually has a semblance of a plot rather than "orgy at the beach".

But I don't think anyone should feel shame for something like watching porn, if it became an addiction as the article was mentioning, then it should be treated like any other addiction if it interferes with normal living. From what you posted, I think you not only have a life but a nice normal one at that :)

[tenni]

"I am a male, so my opinion is based, not around a male point of view, but from many years of doing counselling and therapy work with people..."

Warning
It should be noted that this man's claims of being a "counsellor" are unsubstantiated. He has admitted to not being a licensed "therapist" in New Zealand. He has in the past admitted to being in disagreement with the professional organization that license counsellors.

[Realist]

I think, as a rule, women are less visual than men. Rarely have I met ladies, who were as attracted to others, at first sight, like I often am.

Although I have quickly lost interest in potential lovers, who initially attracted me, I am still immediately attracted by a pretty face, voluptuous figure, or numerous other physical features.

It takes much more than looks to sustain my interest, but I am an initially superficial person.

I'm sure it's a coincidence, but few of the best lovers I've ever had, were those who anyone would select for a Playboy/Playgirl centerfold! Some of the most beautiful, or handsome, were some of the less inspiring!

[DuckiesDarling]

"I am a male, so my opinion is based, not around a male point of view, but from many years of doing counselling and therapy work with people..."

Warning
It should be noted that this man's claims of being a "counsellor" are unsubstantiated. He has admitted to not being a licensed "therapist" in New Zealand. He has in the past admitted to being in disagreement with the professional organization that license counsellors.

Wow, I just love personal attacks. Quit being a jackass, Tenni, you have no idea how things work in New Zealand. They have certs for the counselors and he's more than explained how things came about in several instances on this site. If you have nothing further to contribute to Katya's thread than a personal attack on someone just because you don't like them then don't post. Or is it you can't handle the fact that ANYONE can post regarding women and pornography,it isn't a SEXUALITY EXCLUSIVE subject....

Sorry Katya, but some idiots just need dealing with, now back to this interesting thread.

[softfruit]

To return to the original post's question about is it something women are doing more of: I think it's something almost everyone is doing more of, because the net has taken away so much of what made access to porn difficult. It's probably affected women moreso than men because while it was deemed seedy for men to be off buying porn in those pre-net days, it was at least seen as relatively 'normal'. Woman finding boyfriend's porn stash was a good sitcom staple in a way that the other way around was a bit too tricky an idea.

The net has taken most of the social stigma out of porn and erotica, and a blooming good thing too.

I'd take the guardian piece with a big fat pinch of nonsense-sells-newspapers salt, and remember that if the gods had meant us to masturbate, they'd've given us arms about the right length for our hands to reach our genitalia ;)

[Long Duck Dong]

"I am a male, so my opinion is based, not around a male point of view, but from many years of doing counselling and therapy work with people..."

Warning
It should be noted that this man's claims of being a "counsellor" are unsubstantiated. He has admitted to not being a licensed "therapist" in New Zealand. He has in the past admitted to being in disagreement with the professional organization that license counsellors.

we do not have licensed therapists in NZ.... but that has fuck all to do with porn now does it...... its just another typical tenni personal attack.... so to use your own terms, tenni, lets get the thread back on topic shall we......

[Katja]

The net has taken most of the social stigma out of porn and erotica, and a blooming good thing too.



I don't think that most of the stigma has gone yet. Society still gets a little hot under the collar about it, and churches, governments and other institutions continue to get a 'little' apoplectic about it at times. I could agree with the proposition that the net has begun to break down ths prejudice and the barriers which have been put up regarding pornography, but it will be a long time before the anglo-saxon world at the very least accepts it completely.

Like many things we are drawn to what is bad for us. It is rather child like, and we are told that it is very bad. If it ever becomes so freely available and acceptable, I wonder if we will begin to lose that sense of thrill and excitement that our covert nocturnal voyeurism provides? Will sex become just another functionary thing we do? DH Laurence after all has become rather staid, old hat and quite unextraordinary.

[softfruit]

I don't think that most of the stigma has gone yet. Society still gets a little hot under the collar about it, and churches, governments and other institutions continue to get a 'little' apoplectic about it at times. I could agree with the proposition that the net has begun to break down ths prejudice and the barriers which have been put up regarding pornography, but it will be a long time before the anglo-saxon world at the very least accepts it completely.

You're right, I was over-egging that pudding a bit, but there has I think been quite a lot of change. Though I was more thinking about the practical barriers on an individual level: being able to ask google rather than have to make eye contact with the person at the till at the newsagent.

I think if there's any risk of us finding that the edge is taken off the real-life excitement, it'll be down to how much sex is used in advertising, rather than how readily we can get hold of porn for porn's sake. "Oh look, a naked person, just like on every damn advertising hoarding when I'm walking to work" would surely have much more of a dulling effect that "oh look, a naked person, just like when I'm trying to have an orgasm".

[elian]

Sex trafficking is very real, alive and well so in that sense there will probably always be some sort of stigma associated with pornography (maybe rightly so in that case) not to mention all the things that the more "proper" people in society (as far as I know almost all humans have sex) don't want to acknowledge go on. However, pornography does have its place in society, whether we want to admit it or not. I'd like to advocate for legal, professional stuff (as disgustingly fake as it is) or "legal" amateur videos that are done with the consent of all parties without duress.

Are you asking for my opinion of YOU just because I know you watch pornography?? I can understand the motivation and as far as I'm concerned what you do in private is your own business.

[lizard-lix]

Hi Katja,

Going back to your original point. I know many women who like porn, some the romantic type and some the filthiest stuff made.

It seems from the women I know who talk about this to me, it's about half and half for those who like it those who don't.

My wife is not a porn lover, I am. She likes the romantic stuff when she wants to watch. Several of my other fem friends like the full range.. straight, gang bang, anal, GLTB titles and fetish (this is regardless of orientation, but most of the women I talk to about sex are bi or gay).

So, at least from my perspective, you are in fine company...

Liz

(and I agree with those who stress that porn should be 100% consensual, forcing anyone to do anything is completely wrong, strangely enough the BDSM porn seems to be of the most real with performers clearly enjoying what they do and having pre and post interview to discuss it)

[Katja]

Sex trafficking is very real, alive and well so in that sense there will probably always be some sort of stigma associated with pornography (maybe rightly so in that case) not to mention all the things that the more "proper" people in society (as far as I know almost all humans have sex) don't want to acknowledge go on. However, pornography does have its place in society, whether we want to admit it or not. I'd like to advocate for legal, professional stuff (as disgustingly fake as it is) or "legal" amateur videos that are done with the consent of all parties without duress.

Are you asking for my opinion of YOU just because I know you watch pornography?? I can understand the motivation and as far as I'm concerned what you do in private is your own business.

I am not so naive as to not be aware that some pornography involves coercion. To some extent this can be said to a greater or lesser degree of anything to do with sex where money is to be made. I do not hold with and would never view child pornography for instance. I have my likes and dislikes and assume that the pornography I view is legal in nature. Much of it is disgustingly fake but some is sufficiently convincing to tickle my fancy. It is this, allied to some form of tale which I always search for and view. I suppose it is this that Lizard-lix refers to as 'romantic'.

Elian, I am not asking anyone their opinion of me in respect of my viewing of pornography. In a way my original post is me thinking out loud. I agree that what we do in private is our own business, with the proviso that this does not involve the coercion of or harm to ourselves or A N other either directly by our own activities, or indirectly by watching something where coercion or harm has been involved in production.

Thinking about it now, I suppose I am searching for some form of justification for my voyeurism, and that it is neither wrong or something to be condemned for. In principle I am able to do that just about, but because of the nature of pornography and the many unscrupulous people involved in its production and all that entails, I can only do it with reservations which are not entirely born out of my upbringing.

[baachus]

Over the years, porn has changed to some degree. In the 1970's it was made by men for men. The theatres that showed adult films weren't exactly the cleanest, most upscale movie houses. With the advent of videotape then dvd, the theatres were replaced by rental houses and the internet. The money wasn't there for the production values, such as they were, so the end result was more of a unscripted mish-mash of sex scenes. Storylines, plots, etc went by the wayside. There was an untapped market though and that was women. Many female adult performers like Candida Royale went behind the camera to direct and produce what they felt women wanted to see.


To find out how porn is changing and why women are more open to the experience, Lisa Ling visited adult film sets and spoke to industry insiders. Though 70 percent of women say they keep their online viewing habits secret, Lisa says there's no question that more and more women are watching and buying erotica and porn.

"It's not so much that it's gotten better. It's changing," she says. "Now there is porn that is being produced specifically for women by women, in some cases, and it just looks different. It feels different. There's more of a storyline. It's more romantic."

During her investigation, Lisa met Steve Hirsch, the Ivy League–educated CEO of the world's largest adult film studio, Vivid Entertainment. Steve says porn producers are trying to keep up with the needs of new female consumers.

"I would say that 30 to 40 percent of the market is female. Now, some of that are men who rent movies to watch with their wives," he says. "We saw this huge couples' market that was untapped and nobody was really going after."

To make porn more appealing to women, Steve says his studio began producing a different sort of adult film. "I think that there's more foreplay. There's more tease," he says. "Women, in a lot of cases, like to watch movies with story lines."

http://www.oprah.com/relationships/Lisa-Ling-Reports-on-Adult-Films-Porn-and-Erotica/2

More couples are viewing porn and those behind the scenes are realizing that there is demand for more plot, sexual teasing and tension, foreplay. The old scenario of the lonely wife and young pizza delivery guy don't cut it anymore.

http://http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/22/porn-women


Because a number of women, tired of mainstream porn and tired of criticising it without offering an alternative, are making the porn films they want to watch.

These films don't include horny schoolgirls, naughty nurses, nymphomaniac nannies or desperate housewives. Nor do they include Mafiosi, multimillionaires drinking cognac, pimps, drug dealers or super-sized sex machines. Because these women, as filmmakers and consumers, place themselves far away from mainstream porn.


"Women enjoy seeing a curve of arousal and like to understand why these people are having sex and how they got turned on. Women want to see credible female performers, women of all sizes and looks who genuinely enjoy themselves rather than porn clones with fake nails, hairs and boobs faking it for the camera."


There are no reliable figures on female porn audiences, but there are some academic studies that provide some information. Verena Chiara Kuckenberger is responsible for gender at the University of Graz, and she did a study on women's porn that included audience research.

She says: "Research suggests that women are not as interested in pornography as men are. But this assumption has to be seen in a broader context – there are certain scripts for male and female sexuality and one of these says that women don't find pleasure in looking as man do. But who looks and who gets looked at is a question of power as well. Historically the gaze is male, while women are objects that are being looked at.

"For women to admit to experiencing pleasure in watching pornography means overcoming stereotypes about female sexuality. There are women who do not want to consume pornography, but at the same time there is a potential female audience for porn and I would say it is bigger than it has been assumed so far and it is increasing as our society overcomes gendered stereotypes in general."

[Maggot]

Katja - I think the only reason for feeling shame or seediness in watching porn, is because women are brainwashed into believing that "it isn't nice". You know the drill......... "Nice girls don't............................" (insert behaviour of choice).

I don't feel shame for watching, and enjoying porn, but then my Mother's "Nice girls don't............" talks were offset by my Father's "Yeah, and Nice girls don't have any fun.Enjoy yourself, be careful and all things in moderation." talks.

Obsessive use of porn might not be a good thing, bit like alcoholism, if you can't get through the morning without a fix or three, then you can consider yourself to have a problem. I don't get the impression that you've reached that level yet.